Elder Scrolls General

I have to disagree. The whole point of distinguishing RP Gs from action games is that its the *character's* skill that matters, more than the player.

Morrowind's only real problem was cranking the hit rate too low by default. If starting characters didn't miss nine times out of ten, no one would be complaining. ( especially us poor unlucky fools who tried to make an archer. . . )

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It makes more sense to cripple the game with a random dice roll variable that can supersede the collision detection and inexplicably ignore the fact I totally just bludgeoned a dude in the face with a 50 pound warhammer?

I'm sorry, but did you happen to work for Bethesda in 2002?

derp this distinction is already accomplished through making the strength of the attack dependent on the character's skill. Effectively making every damn peasant in the game invincible to my attacks until I'm Level X is taking the concept to nonsensical levels.

edited 17th Nov '11 7:55:05 PM by Dragonzordasaurus

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I agree with that, but they could have done it the way Deus Ex and some other games do it: a character with a low skill has a much more randomized attack, i.e. the arrow's trajectory could be anywhere in a large area, which narrows with skill increases.

Having someone take an arrow to the face from an attack that the game then declares a miss is just dumb.

edited 17th Nov '11 7:55:55 PM by INUH

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

Animations that show you missing would've helped, or the enemy dodging. Not a big deal though.

Because I actually have fun playing Daggerfall.

People aren't as awful as the internet makes them out to be.

and that distinction makes sense in a game where I am not directly controlling the character. In Morrowind I swing my sword, I shoot my bow so it should logically be dependent on my skills, with the character's skills only effecting the damage and possibly speed of the attack.

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^Like I said, I can respect it modifying accuracy if it actually modifies accuracy, by making the aim less steady or whatever. But if the blow connects, the blow should connect.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

I can accept that, it could actually be really funny.

-aim arrow directly at enemies chest, have it fly over their head.-

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?

Again, *you* aren't shooting or swinging anything. Your character is. The fact that it occurs in real time is basically irrelevant. And having the accuracy determined by character skill is no more arbitrary than having the damage or speed determined by character skill.

Basically, if you want your twitch skills to be the dominating factor? You should be playing Quake, not Elder Scrolls.

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This is an action RPG, not a "pure" RPG so my skill determines it.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?

^^That's fine...if it actually shows the attacks missing.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

To weigh in on there's, there's a reason I've never got more than five hours into Morrowind, and it's the damnable invisible dice rolls.

It makes for gameplay so horrible that I just can't play it. And I've tried at least five times.

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The lack of invisible dice rolls is one thing that Oblivion did well. That and the easily-abusable custom spell system.

"Steel wins battles. Gold wins wars."

^^That's not what it was for me. I could tolerate that. For me it was the journal.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

@Metaphysician

I clocked more hours playing Daggerfall and Arena back in the day than I did in Oblivion, which is decent but a pretty weak entry in the series, IMO. (not counting Redguard, Battlespire and the cellphone games, none of which I have played)

The neat thing about both is that they're basically Ultima Underworld (another of my favourite games ever) but with outdoor areas. Arena also lets you visit every province in all of Tamriel, which in retrospect makes it fun to travel to towns from the later games, like visiting Mournhold, Whiterun, the Imperial City or any of the other notable locations. (Sadly, the design for Vvardenfell wasn't very developed at this point, so there is no Balmora, Vivec or any of the other notable towns from Morrowind, aside from Mournhold)

I had a lot of fun just playing the demo of Daggerfall before I got the full game, which only has the starter dungeon, although with some NP Cs to sell you things and make spells and stuff.

The problem (for me) is a too high difference of the abstractions between the mechanics and the visual representation. In Morrowind, the mechanics were just as abstract as in it's predecessors (whether an attack connects is entirely dependent on dice rolls). The visual representation, however, always makes it appear as if the attack connects (unless one one doesn't hit the model, of course, in which case there isn't even a dice roll).

Arena and Daggerfall, due to their 2D nature, had a more abstract visual representation, which were more closer to the abstractions of the mechanics. That hits are governed by dice rolls made more sense and it didn't harm my immersion when an attack missed. Admittedly, early 2.5D FPS had the same degree of abstraction in their visual representation...

Personally, I don't see that much similarity between Arena/Daggerfall and Ultima Underworld. Sure, they are both 2.5D first-person CRPGs and are superficially very similar, but they... well, let's say that they have different "feeling".

edited 18th Nov '11 11:57:18 AM by Nyarly

People aren't as awful as the internet makes them out to be.

I think actually showing the enemy dodging your pathetic flailing (because at level one skill twenty, that's what you're doing) was one of those things that was thrown out due to time constraints. Besides, if we're talking about stupid shit that breaks suspension of disbelief Oblivion really takes the cake.

But me, I don't give two shits about the gameplay quality of RPG's. It's the story, characters, and setting that makes them worth playing, and Morrowind and Daggerfall have a huge advantage over the TES console games in those regards.

I would read a book or a comic on Daggerfall, and I would watch a documentary or read a comic on Morrowind, if that makes sense. I wouldn't give any version of Oblivion a second look, and Skyrim only works as a game.

^Oblivion is definitely the worst installment immersion-wise and story-wise (from what I've heard, the main quest was the last thing they worked on, and it was rushed out). Don't see what's so awful about Skyrim's setting and story, though.

As for Morrowind, I'd definitely watch a movie or read a comic of it. That way, I wouldn't have to go "hmm...the road Northeast of this lake, according to a page seventy back in my journal...is it this road, or that road? One curves back west, and the other is a dead end...well, guess I can't finish the main quest now."

edited 19th Nov '11 9:16:28 AM by INUH

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

I've been having a lot of fun playing Oblivion.

Seeing all these piss ant tropers trying to talk tough makes me laugh. If Matrix were here, he'd laugh too.

Oh, it's a fun game. It's just...not immersive at all, and has a bit of a bland setting.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

And Skyrim literally does everything better.

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The only problem I have with Skyrim's setting is that the Nordic gods have been reduced to "By Ysmir's beard!." Even the Stormcloaks follow the Imperial religion.

Er, don't the Stormcloaks worship Talos? Bear in mind, a large part of why they're rebelling is because Talos isn't in the Imperial religion anymore.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

Yes. But the only man I meet who worships the Nordic pantheon is Froski. He was complaining about everyone following the Nine/Eight Divines.

The Nordic aspect of Talos is a massive dragon named Ysmir.

Only Froki, from what I've seen, worships Kyne (her real name). Not Kynareth.

edited 19th Nov '11 1:51:46 PM by SilentColossus

Ah, I see.

I'd say cultural imperialism, but everyone still seems to want to go to Sovngarde.

edited 19th Nov '11 1:13:49 PM by INUH

Infinite Tree: an experimental story