Super Smash Bros.

I think SMB3 is a notable enough game that it should be part of Mario’s roll call.

I just don't want to overcrowd it with too many of Mario's games, you know? I mean, you could make arguments about the notability of the first titles of Mario's spin-off games, like Super Mario Kart, Mario Party, Mario Tennis, etc. as well. Should those all be entered for him as well? Where's the line?

Right behind Super Mario Bros. 3.

Although yeah, you probably should acknowledge the spinoffs as well.

And you probably don’t need to acknowledge every system’s main platformer. You already skipped 3D World and all the handheld titles, so cutting Sunshine and Galaxy probably isn’t the end of the world.

Edited by BadWolf21 on Jan 24th 2019 at 1:02:09 PM

I've just revised it, but I still feel like there's too many. And, even then, I should probably include Super Mario Land, as the first handheld title...

The trophies in the previous Smash Bros titles pretty much limited it to debut title and most recent appearance, and I think I'm seeing why.

Edited by TheHeroHartmut on Jan 24th 2019 at 7:27:53 PM

If only you noticed sooner...

Well, it's a testament to Mario's sheer presence and historical significance, I suppose. It's always going to be difficult to truncate it.

In any event, I feel I've made decent progress so far, given that I've started this during work on a slow day. I'll need to delve further into the titles that featured the various enemy and kart types, but, y'know, this is looking to be doable.

Edited by TheHeroHartmut on Jan 24th 2019 at 8:00:15 PM

For those of you who like metal covers of video game songs, Gametal released a cover of Lifelight. (Two, actually - there's a non-vocal version too)

Edited by MileRun on Jan 24th 2019 at 2:47:06 AM

I've requested edit access.

Yeah, it's probably best to restrict the descriptions to just the first and most recent appearance, possibly with one other particularly notable appearance.

One other thing I would suggest pertains to third-party spirits: since this is a Nintendo crossover, spirits' debut game should be their first appearance on a Nintendo console. So, for example, Rayman's debut should be listed as Rayman 2: The Great Escape rather than Rayman.

For Sega spirits, make an exception - if their first appearance was on a Sega but not a Nintendo console, list the Sega appearance (so, for example, Dr. Eggman's debut would be Sonic the Hedgehog rather than Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, though that game could reasonably be the notable one as it was the first Sonic game on a Nintendo console).

Oh, and if there's no choice but to list a game which is not available on a Nintendo or Sega console, maybe don't list the console. I'm pretty sure For made a point of not mentioning the PlayStation anywhere in Cloud's trophy description, and I'd like to be authentic in that way.

Brawl and Smash 4 list their debut games but simply don't put a console icon next to them like they do with the Nintendo games.

So how likely for Boss rush mode to be back & add more bosses in the future?

I'm going to give you single-digit odds on that.

My guess is that the Smash team might think replaying the last level counts as a boss rush.

I personally would want something more like the one in Brawl (and Kirby Super Star) where it's just a hub room with limited healing items and randomized bosses aside from the final two.

x5: Glad to have your assistance, VB. I thought I made the docs publicly editable, though it evidently seems I didn't. I believe I've rectified this, now. All of the docs are grouped here,, and I'd tested them all to be accessible. Let me know if any of them aren't visible or editable.

As for the notable appearances... I mean, I see the logic, but there's just so much history for many of these spirits (well, at least a particular few, at any rate). It's conflicting; I'd rather not put in so many for it to be overloaded, but, at the same time, it also feels wrong to not include some titles.

Edited by TheHeroHartmut on Jan 25th 2019 at 12:12:26 PM

I think that the only one who’s likely to have an ESPECIALLY long entry is Mario, because he’s at the centre of both his main series and a huge amount of spinoffs. Everyone else can probably be narrowed to four or five appearances because their main spinoff appearances are in Smash itself.

Edited by BadWolf21 on Jan 25th 2019 at 8:00:36 AM

Think I'm making decent progress on the Mario spirits; pretty much just have the karts and some of the retro spirits left. I guess the policy for dating the referenced titles ought to be (console, year), and I've given at least two to every spirit I could so far.

Johns Tier list◊

I'm deeply offended as a Lucas main.

that tier list is wrong because fuck kirby

actually my least favorite character to fight against

x3 Ike should really be in both the "same 2 or 3 moves" and "you hit me 3 times per stock." Great aerials and high power. Roy hitting sweetspots would probably qualify too.

Funny thing is, the characters that are in the "same 2 to 3 moves bracket" that aren't zoners are characters who have a portion of their moves being unusably laggy (any of Palutena's non-aerial tilts for example) or too unsafe, and then a few really good, redeeming options to combo, so I don't know where the complaining comes from. You have to work with what you got, lol.

edit: Kirby is your least favorite to play against? Honestly never heard that one. How come you don't like fighting against him, if you don't mind me asking?

Edited by ILikeRobots on Jan 25th 2019 at 9:16:15 AM

alright so kirby isn't, like, good or anything

the issue is that i main Pikachu and Pichu

the optimal way to beat kirby is to camp him out. Kirby can't really approach because of his air speed, and his aerials can be punished on shield. The issue comes the instand kirby sucks up pikachu/pichu, because kirby can suddenly outcamp them due to his multiple jumps and small body. and it's super frustrating.

in top of that, kirby's small size and light weight also means that it's hard for Pikachu and Pichu to combo him, which is where there damage comes from. and then kirby's smash attacks are all super quick and strong, which means if i whiff anything pikachu and pichu are taking a lot of percent or dying really early.

kirby players usually get mad if i camp them out, but it's the optimal way to play the matchup. it's just super annoying and i hate it a lot, especially since i die from just a few mistakes.

Something seems wrong there.

I can't quite put my finger on it.

Erm, camp wars with glass cannons? The fuck?

what seems to be the issue? it's correct.

the safest way to play the pikachu vs kirby match up is to run away and spam projectiles and punish kirby when he tries to approach. oftentimes it's too risky to go after kirby yourself thanks to the advantage that kirby gets if he sucks pikachu up or the amount of damage or knockback kirby does by whiff punishing with a smash attack.

the only reason pikachu could be reasonably considered a "glass cannon" is due to his combo potential. Due to Kirby's weight and size, it's very difficult to combo kirby, meaning pikachu gains almost nothing from approaching.

Edited by EpicBleye on Jan 25th 2019 at 12:55:47 PM

Can't a decent Kirby just air maneuver over/around Pikachu's projectiles, since they're made to hug the ground?

I'm a Kirby player, have been for years, and I play Pikachu campers all the time. It's a really inefficient way to fight against Kirby, because his mobility options invalidate a lot of the strategy and relies on the Kirby's being rusty enough to actually get hit by stuff like Thunder (Pikachu doesn't telegraph well). It only really works on completely flat stages like Final Destination, and even then its very predictable.

Ultimately, it's easier to play against a Pikachu camper as Kirby than it is to play a Pikachu that makes full use of their mobility, since while they both have stubby limbs Pikachu is far faster, has a few better pokes and is thus and more able to put Kirby on the defensive.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 25th 2019 at 10:01:34 AM

Kirby's air mobility is ridiculously slow. As long as Pikachu spams tjolt in the air kirby is forced to jump over or shield them, where Pikachu can punish landing or punish shield or just... run away thanks to QA and being faster.

I will grant you that pikachu can get aggressive with kirby, but it also opens up room for Kirby to whiff punish pikachu, and it hits pikachu really hard. It ultimately isnt worth the risk since it isnt difficult to whiff on kirby

I have no idea what you're talking about with FD and Thunder, since other stages allow Tjolt to claim platforms and provide room for Pika to escape without needing to stay on the stage. Thunder is exclusively meant to be used for edgeguarding or uthrow > RAR Thunder for kills, not in neutral.

Edited by EpicBleye on Jan 25th 2019 at 1:06:23 PM