Series/Deus Ex

Invisible War is decent enough, to my mind, it's just rather shallow in comparison to the original.

I wouldn't recommend like I would Deus Ex or HR.

I might recommend playing it before Human Revolution or Mankind Divided, solely because it'll be much more difficult to enjoy once you realize how far the franchise as a whole has progressed. But at least the endings feel genuinely different, something that both of it's successors sadly lack.

Oh, and Nikkolas, knowing how weird you tend to be with your choices... if you ever do play Invisible War, for the love of God, DON'T join the Templar. They are the only faction in the game who will REPEATEDLY backstab you, and then immediately ask for your forgiveness the moment you survive whatever situation they concocted, every single time. It's like they designed that group as a message to those who think certain extremist/bad guy groups have redeeming traits by ultimately concluding with "You think they're gonna start respecting you now since you helped them win? NOPE!"

I'm still irritated that they rushed out Mankind Divided and essentially killed a franchise in the making.

They had a Deus Ex movie planned, books, comics, and they were going to do the sequel as well third game simultaneously.

Microtransactions and a multiplayer mode no one wanted or understood killed that.

Firmly the responsibility of SE Europe, who are apparently TERRIBLE. And don't seem to understand business, let alone the products they make / hawk.

They seemed to be trying to emulate the EA bandwagon but didn't get the product. Or care for that matter.

I enjoyed MK:D immensely, all of it; but yes, the ending felt more rushed, the DLC being very clearly carved out and not fitting easily back in was frustrating. But I did enjoy the fact you could get a "golden ending" by actually planning, thinking and being FAST. Some of it requires cheesing, but if you've explored a little and have laid the ground work you can anticipate AND save the day.

A shame you can just use his killswitch over the PA or something... but I think they were struggling with the integration into the wider Deus Ex universe at that point.

I do hope we get SOMETHING soon. And a movie i fear would pick up the wrong elements; much like the Hitman movie turned him into an ubersoldat, a Deus Ex movie would try to do a Blade or Matrix in the WORST way.

What hitman needed was a Netflix series done in a criminal style, with 47 being barely seen, but the protagonists working out the crime scenes (Sort of like Carmen Sandiago); Deus Ex should be an Altered Carbon-like noir series.

Ghost in the Shell may as well be the anime of the Deus Ex franchise. Hell, it wouldn't even take too much ret-conning to merge the two universes.

Only problem would be how to integrate both WW3 and WW 4 happening in the 2020s and 2030s, or how to include the Aug Incident and the prejudice against prosthetics it brought to the world.

Is deus ex really one of those series that needs to be a franchise?

I dunno, it's a really good world of conspiracies and investigation and well-done world-building.

I don't know about the first game (I've sort of played it, but never got far; I suspect it would work too), but I can totally see a Deus Ex: Human Revolution movie. It's already pretty cinematic.

Mankind Divided feels like an unfinished game and that's the harshest criticism I can give because I mean that in the Halo 2 sense. The game feels like it's about 2/3rds of the way through and then they declared it over. The villain has no development and we never learn his reasons (other than "I have a bomb in my head") as well as no confrontation with the Illuminati or learning about Jensen's cybernetic fixes or if he's the real Jensen.

The UNATCO substitute introduces a huge number of characters but they're barely in the plot and there's no resolution to the UN bill or the immigration issue.

If they'd added in the first DLC (which was clearly cut out—the rest are unrelated to the plot) maybe it would work slightly better but the Halo 2 comparison is not unwarranted.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 22nd 2019 at 4:54:38 AM

Alright, to get to my point, let me start with a question: what is your definition of a "franchise"?

How would deus ex be a "franchise" in your eyes?

Books, movies, and video games.

Multimedia like Star Wars.

A cyberpunk bedrock to rest a world on.

Don't forget the cereal! It'd be the perfect way to augment your morning.

Edited by Protagonist506 on May 25th 2019 at 3:52:46 AM

Augmenchoos

Question: Do we have any idea when the next Deus Ex game might come out? I'm playing Mankind Divided (my graphics card wasn't advanced enough to play it when it first came out) and it made me realize how much I like this series, though I know it disappointed some people. So I'm hoping the next game might get the formula right.

Actually, what I'd really like is a remake of Deus Ex with the engine of something like MD. Someone should try making a mod like that. I got into the series from HR, and tried playing the first Deus Ex but its gameplay hasn't aged very well and I'm having trouble getting into it.

No word whatsoever. Mankind Divided kinda put the franchise into a coma with its lackluster outing.

Just finished Mankind Divided earlier today. The game was better than I expected it to be. How poorly did it do?

Here's my thoughts:

The game's pretty good, especially in terms of gameplay (it's easily one of the most fun games I've played in a long time). I heard there was some controversy about microtransactions but they must have changed it or something. I didn't even realize the game had microtransactions until I read about it when I was well into the game.

I suppose in hindsight the game's story leaves a bit to be desired. HR's metaphor of augs=privilege works a bit better than this game's metaphor with racism. I do think it kind of works, since groups like Purity First are pretty racist. Though I think HR did a better job of showing an actual dilemma.

I have heard people criticize the game's ending and saying it felt like it ended in the middle, though I don't see it. I mean, there's definitely a strong sequel hook, but the game did feel like a self-contained product. Or rather, I didn't feel gypped.

Edited by Protagonist506 on Jul 22nd 2019 at 4:11:35 AM

Generally, the complaints were as followed:

1. The Microtransactions are "Pay to Win" in that you can buy in-universe things like Praxis Kits.

2. The purchases you buy are one-use only for one save.

3. The entirety of the Multiplayer online mode was poorly received since it is a bunch of geometric shapes rather than actual in-universe gameplay.

4. They ripped out a fairly plot crucial hours worth of gaming mission from the main game where you find the train station bomber and are pointed to Golem City. Then they sold it as DLC.

5. They ripped out a second portion of the game that was two hours of gameplay and introduce dthe multiplayer game as well as incorporated David Sarif.

6. The game ended on a cliffhanger.

7. The UNATCO substitute vs. the Juggernaut Collective was woefully underdeveloped with both sides having interesting characters you barely interact with.

8. We never actually find out the main villain's motive. He's just a bigger goon than most.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 22nd 2019 at 6:27:45 AM

It's possible my opinion of the game might be influenced by me failing spot checks (I didn't realize the game had a multiplayer at all), or me being aware of flaws ahead of time and bracing for them (I hate cliffhangers in general, but I was expecting something much more obnoxious than what I got).

Definitely agree about the main baddie. Actually, I'd argue he represents an important pitfall one should be wary of when writing a game like this: Sometimes, the conspiracy elements override more interesting conflicts. Or, to put it another way, it's hard to have an interesting political debate when your opponent keeps revealing himself to be a reptoid. Not saying they shouldn't use conspiracy elements, just saying they should be careful with them.

Edited by Protagonist506 on Jul 22nd 2019 at 11:07:40 AM

I think the issue is it didn't feel like we advanced the main "meta plot" of the universe - we found a terrorist, foiled a plot and had some fun adventures.

I loved Prague, loved the main HQ (Wish we did more there) and the various impacts of the choices (And in that way, the game was a step towards the foot-wide / mile deep dream that Warren Spector envisaged for DX)

But the marketing and structure of the game by Square Enix Europe for a cash grab was... disgusting. With the DLC you can SEE where it should have fit in the plot and the fact that the DLC has to be played through a different menu and not integrated into the game (Unlike HR's DLC which actually slotted into the plot with the remaster) - that stank.

I haven't played the DLC (and don't intend to at the moment), but I was a bit baffled by its implementation and its non-inclusion in the main campaign. By that, I don't mean I'm baffled by the content being DLC (I can understand the motive. I don't love it, but I understand it), but rather, I'm surprised that the DLC missions are only accessible through a different menu rather than having it so that, when you buy the DLC, it becomes accessible in the main campaign.

Only motives I can think of are technical difficulties, or an ill-conceived attempt to disguise the fact that they're made of cut content from the main game. If the latter, that was pretty unwise given the following:

-You're not fooling anyone.

-You're really not fooling anyone-even if the DLC was not made from cut content, everyone would assume it was anyways. Ergo, no point in trying.

Actually, on the second point I am reminded of someone talking about the first game. There's an arc in it that felt shoehorned in and out-of-place, to the point that they mentioned it felt like DLC that just happened to come with the main game (essentially, the opposite of Mankind Divided).

That actually might be a good litmus test: If it feels like it completes the game or "should have been there all along", then it's cut content being resold as DLC. If it feels sort of shoehorned in and/or very separate from the main experience, then it's probably not.

Alternatively, that might be a sort of Morton's Fork with DLC. The more the DLC seems "natural", "desirable", etc to player, the more likely the player will feel gypped that it didn't come with the game to begin with.

Edited by Protagonist506 on Jul 23rd 2019 at 2:49:35 AM

The DLC should be notably explained:

• "Desperate Measures" is where you solve the train station bombing. You track down the Belltower (or whatever they're calling themselves now) mercenaries and find out they're doing a cover-up. You have to break into their local HQ and either interrogate the head of the investigation (whose brother in law did it—and hes' covering up for his sister) or find the physical evidence that reveals where he lived. This leads to Adam Jensen going, "Yeah, I have to go to Golem City and check out this guy's apartment." In the main game, you just drop the train station bombing angle and go to Golem City. You can still find the bomber's apartment though and answers there.

• "System Rift" has Adam Jensen hired by David Sarif to investigate the guy building the cyborg city in the desert and see if he's a member of the Illuminati. You have to break into a massive well-protected data farm. It's a different building than the one you broke into earlier but the same company. You try out the multiplayer (though you do it single player) and then find out that the building guy is clean but the Illuminati want him dead.

Both are pretty integral to the story. There's a third one that's a flashback to an earlier mission by Jensen for Task Force 29 and has nothing to do with the main quest.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 23rd 2019 at 3:29:07 AM

Some accomplishments! I managed to beat Human Revolution under the slightly tough ruleset of: no-alarms, no-kills, minimal-takedowns, no-augs, no-items. Hardest difficulty, but on a stealth playthrough that doesn't really matter. I did make some exceptions: it's possible to beat them with crates, but I snuck in two EMP grenades to destroy two robots you have to disable.^note You can shut them down on a nearby computer, but generally not without upgrading Hacking. I also used whatever guns were available in a boss arena, then dropped them after the fight. It was a somewhat interesting way to play through them, but probably would've been smoother on a lower difficulty where I think they have noticeably lower health. Playing the game like this does really make it funny, though, how obviously the devs abuse vents.

More recently, beat the original Deus Ex a few days ago. First time I've actually played it all the way to the ending, I think. In the end the only character I directly killed was Anna. I'm told you can cloak past Gunther, but I just threw a gas grenade at him and called it a day.

Well, I also blew up a ship full of unconscious people and nuked a place, but that surely can't count. I know this is old news, but it's kind a shame that, after the game goes to such lengths at the beginning on its lethal/non-lethal divide, by the end your possible decision to play as some sort of Batman-ish pseudo-pacifist goes completely ignored. Guys will ask you to kill someone, you'll go bop them over the head with a baton, JC will outright refer to them as dead, etc. It can be a little jarring at times. Having Walton Simons pop up again only for me to immediately run straight past him was pretty funny, though.

I've since booted up Invisible War. Unfortunately it's kind of a pain to run, but it's working. This one I've never played too far into. It's kind of weird how I got used to DX1's dated models, but every time I look at Alex's model, or indeed anyone else's, I'm frequently haunted by their lifeless eyes. While I'm nitpicking with starting gripes, I really wish the subtitles would show up all at once.

Edited by Lavaeolus on Oct 17th 2019 at 1:52:36 PM

The first game gets by it by being so low res you aren't distracted. Invisible war definitely went with uncanny valley. I find the areas are so small and the loading times too frequent that it makes back and forth a pain.

Well done on the pacifist way through - MK:D makes it a BIT trickier, especially some of the side missions, but stealth is still definitely on the cards. Though hacking is a MUST for a lot of it.

Cyberpunk is going to be the fix for the lack of DX... but I do hope Squeenix and EIDOS Montreal get the hint that Cyberpunk settings are in and capitalise on it.

My refusal to knock anyone out obviously cost me a lot of sidequests, but one interesting thing about doing a no-aug run is that it does let you see, I think a fair few of the side-missions take it for granted you'll invest a bit in hacking. Admittedly in the Director's Cut you can find Auto-Unlocking Devices, meaning it's possible to get around the occasional Hacking 3 requirement — but of course under the rules of my challenge they weren't an option.

I'm lucky in that I managed to snag Pacifist in my first playthroughs of both Human Revolution and Mankind Divided. Didn't get Foxiest, alas. That was one fun bit of doing this Absolute Zero-ish challenge; if I'd gone straight for no-alarms, it'd have been fun because I enjoy the games as stealth games, but it wouldn't have been much of a new experience. I'm happy to say I was successful in grabbing it this HR run.

I did try a bit of Mankind Divided this morning, same self-imposed ruleset except I allowed myself the passive powers in the first level and broke down one wall that was, strictly speaking, optional. (You can throw a crate at it repeatedly, I think, to bash it down; but I'm doing this for fun and challenge, so just standing there throwing the thing would've been a little dull.) Except this time around I decided to reject all sidequests, for no particular reason. It's amazing how quickly the first section of Prague is over when you do this; I might postpone the trip to Golem City just because I feel like I've skipped so much.

It kind of makes it apparent how more sidequest-focused Mankind Divided is compared to Jensen's first outing. A decision I do respect, for the record; Prague's a pretty detailed place compared to Detroit.

Edited by Lavaeolus on Oct 17th 2019 at 5:27:49 PM

Is there any reason to play the PC version of Deus Ex instead of PS 2?

I had no idea there was aPS2 version until just now. I was trying to figure out how to use agamepad for DE 1 on PC but then I learned it's on PS 2 so fuck that noise, I've already compromised my principles enough by playing Bloodlines with KB&M.