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No 40K thread yet? I'm surprised. Nay, shocked, shocked I say to discover there's gambling going on in this establishment...

I'm eagerly anticipating the imminent 5th Edition release, personally, but I was interested to know if anyone here plays and has a differing opinion on it. There are certainly plenty of people out there who seem to think that 40K 4th edition "only just" came out and that a new edition isn't needed. Anyone?


Warhammer Fantasy (including Age of Sigmar and WFRP) has its own thread here.

Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 22nd 2024 at 5:37:34 PM

SebastianGray Since: Apr, 2011
#35501: May 16th 2022 at 11:31:45 AM

For a few years now I've been thinking about converting some heretic Space Wolves, either direct Chaos-worshipers or simply a bunch who abandoned their posts to become Space Pirates. That way I could amplify the Horny Vikings theme further.

There is lore for Chaos Space Wolves. I I think some joind the Red Corsairs. I also think Chaos Wolf Brothers (the Space Wolves' failed 2nd Founding Successor) turn up a couple of times.

I wonder when they will do a preview on Imperial Fists. Before I learned how they got screwed over in 9th edition, I wanted to make Imperial Fists SM army and not Iron Hands.

They are going in Legion number order so Imperial Fists (my favourite Legion) will be tomorrow.

Edited by SebastianGray on May 16th 2022 at 7:34:37 PM

Knowledge is Power, Guard it Well
Mara999 International Man of Mystery from Grim Up North Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
International Man of Mystery
#35502: May 16th 2022 at 1:29:38 PM

There is lore for Chaos Space Wolves. I I think some joind the Red Corsairs. I also think Chaos Wolf Brothers (the Space Wolves' failed 2nd Founding Successor) turn up a couple of times.

Yeah, Skyrar's Dark Wolves and the Blood Wolves. Besides the Svane Wulfbad conversion, neither warband appeals to me that much visually. I'm thinking about making a group that is both visually more similar to the Red Corsairs, as well as more stereotypically Viking-looking. While it would be easy to make Chaos Space Wolves that are Khornites, another idea that I'm toying with is to make these guys less berserker-y and more sneaky. That's why I'd probably have them worship Tzeentch, even occasionally partnering-up with the Thousand Sons and fielding Sorcerors of their own, as a direct insult to their forebears.

Durazno Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#35503: May 16th 2022 at 3:30:05 PM

You might even consider dividing them, and having some fall Khorneward while others climb Tzeenchward. The gods might not like each other that much, but who says their followers can't work together?

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#35504: May 16th 2022 at 5:09:20 PM

"Space Wolves successors/offshoots/renegades who ditch the furry and go full Viking" is one of the most commonly heard /yourdudes/ concepts.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
ArcticDog18 Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Mara999 International Man of Mystery from Grim Up North Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
International Man of Mystery
#35506: May 17th 2022 at 10:40:35 AM

[up][up]It makes sense, considering the common Barbarian Hero power-fantasy that goes along with it. That's why I'd like to do it a bit differently than just making them even more berserk than usual, which is why I get a kick out of imagining a bunch of ex-Space Wolves that decide to be as dishonourable as they can, as a middle-finger to Papa Russ. That's why Tzeentch-ian sorcerers seem like a good fit, to connect these guys to the real Norse taboo against men using magic.

Edited by Mara999 on May 17th 2022 at 8:40:56 PM

SebastianGray Since: Apr, 2011
#35507: May 17th 2022 at 10:46:57 AM

Today on Warhammer Community:

1. Horus Heresy Imperial Fists Legion Focus[nja][up][up]

It’s easy to pick favourites, but the truth is that every Legion has a role. Some are foaming savages and unrestrained barbarians, while others hold true to their convictions with an unwavering sense of duty and complete dedication to the cause even unto agonising death. You see? The Emperor’s plan has a place for everyone.

It’s time for the next in our series of highly unbiased assessments of each of the Legiones Astartes, and we’ve finally arrived at the main event. It’s the immovable, the indefatigable, the indomitable – the Imperial Fists. Why do they fight the way they fight, which side are they on, and what great undertakings has their Primarch achieved?

The Legion

The VII Legion loves to build. Even as early as the Unification Wars, these project-oriented warriors focused on constructing citadels in the aftermath of their hard-won victories – a razed warzone is free real estate, after all. These weren’t just fancy palaces, but real fortress-cities built with a craftsman’s eye – as solid and dependable as the soul of a Space Marine should be.

The Legion’s skill at workplace safety may have been driven by the fact that their gene-seed implantation causes intense pain – imagine treading on a poorly-placed plastic brick, times a thousand. No wonder they never needed hazard stripes to remind them which end of a gun is dangerous…

Rogal Dorn, Primarch of the Imperial Fists, agreed that simply destroying the enemy wasn’t enough. True victory was found in security – and what could be more secure than a big ol’ castle from which to plan your next move? Of course, standing atop the battlements gives you an excellent view of all that unconquered territory just out of reach – so poorly managed! So unsightly! Time to rev up recruitment and go crusading again.

Rules

On the battlefield, the Imperial Fists are all about standing immovable, refusing to bend to the enemy’s will, constructing the ultimate defence, and – psych! – now they’re in your face, smashing you with hammers and swords. A rolling stone gathers no moss, but it can still break your nose.

Like all of the Adeptus Astartes, the VII Legion have a lust for battle. No-one ever won a war by waiting for the enemy to get bored – The Best Defence is a furious offence, something the Imperial Fists know well.

This outburst of fury isn’t out of character – these very serious chaps still employ Discipline and Resolve on the battlefield, forming deadly defensive formations to spit out an obscene volume of fire.

That said, there are still those within the Legion who favour a more proactive approach to battle – namely, the Templars. The Dark Angels might cosplay as knightly orders with their secret handshakes and hushed rituals, but the Imperial Fists are true historical re-enactors – the Templar Brethren bear swords and shields alongside their bolt weapons, and have the honour of guarding the Legion’s sacred ‘to do’ list, better-known as the Temple of Oaths.

Appropriately then, the Templar Assault Rite of War lets you field your premier knights as Troops choices – with a few other neat benefits to help them hold the fort (and Objectives). These guys must hate being cooped up in Transports because when they do get out, boy, do they get mad at whatever unlucky enemy happens to be nearby.

Of course, this devout battle-lust would lead to a split in thinking between Dorn and his mightiest son, First Captain Sigismund, who exchanged his father’s blind, unquestioning fealty for blind, unquestioning faith – these are totally different things, and Dorn was very disappointed. Let’s just remember the good times while they lasted.

The Primarch

Like all of his brother Primarchs, Dorn was flung far from Terra through the immaterium, landing on the icy world of Inwit. Adopted by the hard-bitten, spacefaring people of his home planet, Dorn soon rose to lead a stellar empire of orbiting snowballs – even salvaging an absolutely colossal space station from ages long past, which he dubbed the Phalanx. It was a bit of a fixer-upper.

Eventually the Emperor popped along, and Dorn signed on to the Great Crusade immediately. He moved the VII Legion onto the Phalanx, which became the headquarters of the Imperial Fists, and the galaxy’s most heavily-armed clubhouse. Strongholds in the sky, castles on the ground – they would construct a fortress in their mind if they could…

Not that Dorn really needs a fortress – he is the fortress. Resolute in the face of hardship and pain, Rogal Dorn didn’t just teach his sons how to build the most robust defences known to the Imperium, but how to become part of those defences, standing in every breach, solid as a ferrocrete barricade.

The Praetorian of Terra was as tough and unyielding as a brick wall, with a sense of humour and empathy to match. He was unwaveringly dependable, unflinchingly honest, but rarely the highlight of the Great Crusade’s post-work socials. Who can say how he ended up inspiring such a grudge in Perturabo? Er, and Alpharius. And Konrad, and…

The Heresy

While more dramatic Primarchs pouted, complained, and threw the galaxy into bloody civil war, Dorn remained steadfast on the Throneworld – holding the line in the Siege of Terra even when his brothers were held up by the Warmaster’s treacherous plots. While the Emperor was busy waging the War in the Webway, Rogal was named Lord Commander of the Imperium, and tasked with bolstering the defences of the Sol System and the Imperial Palace itself.

Protecting the entire Sol System was a colossal challenge, and Dorn did it out of duty, not for glory – and certainly not just for the opportunity to create the ultimate and best castle ever seen. As Lord Commander, Dorn also found himself boosting around his many, immaculately-planned defensive spheres. Most famously, he gave Alpharius such a good hiding on Pluto that he killed him… or did he?

Elsewhere, the Imperial Fists were tasked with blockading the Warmaster’s home planet of Cthonia – something they managed with all the ease you’d expect from the masters of castling, cutting off the Sons of Horus’ ability to reinforce their ranks.

During war councils with his brothers, many noted that Dorn seemed utterly exhausted – and who wouldn’t be? Keeping the Khan from haring off on his own can’t have been a walk in the (immaculately designed) park, but someone had to do it, lest their impulsiveness cause Rogal’s delicate house of cards to collapse.

Despite the immense strain, Dorn kept going. Toiling without sleep or rest for months, he continued to command the Legions and lead the fortification efforts like an overstretched project manager – albeit one with transhuman biology and genius intellect rather than the latest time-keeping app.

This endless dedication saw him fight to the last moment of the Siege of Terra, even aboard Horus’s flagship. It was Dorn’s burden to retrieve the bodies of the Emperor and Sanguinius from the bridge of the Vengeful Spirit – and to receive his father’s final instructions for the future of the Imperium, which presumably involved adding extra cushions to his favourite golden chair.

Dorn remained unbroken – a mighty stronghold to the very end – but the Heresy had well and truly shaken this Primarch’s once unassailable foundations. At least he still had his mighty Legion, in all its mustered glory – no-one would ever take that away from him. Right?

Legion Lore

Dorn’s unwavering dedication saw him throw his Legion into the grinder more than once – duty was their middle name, and they took it in their stride, but often it ended in tragedy. Praetorian of Dorn tells the tale of one such noble sacrifice, when the immovable Knights fought the shifting, duplicitous rogues of the Alpha Legion.

Just as Dorn dismantles his father’s home to turn it into an indomitable fortress, The Lightning Tower tears down the Primarch’s own defences. This book is the best way to get a handle on Rogal Dorn’s thought process – something his allies rarely glimpsed beneath his layers of stoicism.

I do really like the Imperial Fists.

2. The History of Mk.VI Armour

The Warhammer: The Horus Heresy – Age of Darkness boxed set contains a total of 42 Space Marines – that’s two Praetors, leading a whopping 40 Legionaries in Mark VI power armour. But just why is this iconic armour – affectionately termed “beakie armour” – so awesome?

The Horus Heresy is in many ways the origin story of the Warhammer 40,000 universe – and Mark VI power armour is very much the origin of the Space Marine aesthetic. Those hobbyists with exceptionally long memories will remember the RTB01 kit, which was packed with plastic beakie Space Marines, was the first boxed set for Warhammer 40,000.

In fact, the new Legion Tactical Squad has been deliberately designed to echo this iconic kit, right down to the chain bayonettes. What’s more, the new special and heavy weapon kits also hark back to those original designs.

Mark VI armour was first issued during the later stages of the Great Crusade, and it was in wide service by the time of the Horus Heresy. And while it may be most associated with sneaky forces such as the Raven Guard or the Alpha Legion, every Legion was issued with this mobile, relatively lightweight armour mark – even the Iron Warriors, who were well-known for their preference for heavier armour.

Raven Guard & Iron Warriors

By the time of the Siege of Terra, the Loyalist Legions defending the Imperial Palace had whole Chapters equipped with Mark VI armour, while the Dark Mechanicum hacked the data vaults of those still loyal to the Emperor to provide the designs to Horus and his forces. With countless Forge Worlds under the control of the Warmaster, production of Mark VI armour continued apace, and the Emperor’s Children in particular used it en masse during the Siege of Terra.

Blood Angels, Emperor's Children & World Eaters

Of course, if you prefer to set your games earlier in the Age of Darkness, Mark III and Mark IV armour are pretty cool too (and both types of armour were very much still in use by the Siege of Terra). There is no “correct” Legiones Astartes armour Mark – just choose your favourite and put it to use! And now you can get Marks III, IV, and VI in multipart plastic kits, it’s never been easier to start your Legion.

You’ll be able to get your hands on this legendary armour fit soon, when the Warhammer: The Horus Heresy boxed set drops – sign up for our newsletter to keep up with the latest on the Age of Darkness. Be sure to also keep your eye on Warhammer TV, as we’ll have painting videos for Mark VI armour in the colours of all 18 Legions.

I've always been more of a Mk.V fan myself, but VI is still a classic.

Edited by SebastianGray on May 17th 2022 at 6:49:29 PM

Knowledge is Power, Guard it Well
ArcticDog18 Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#35508: May 17th 2022 at 10:47:29 AM

[up][up]The final insult would’ve been teaming up with Thousand Sons.

Edited by ArcticDog18 on May 17th 2022 at 7:47:41 PM

I will become a great writer one day! Hopefully...
SebastianGray Since: Apr, 2011
#35509: May 17th 2022 at 10:51:17 AM

With Space Wolves, its the sci-fi werewolf aspect that I have always liked, but then I have always been more into the Science Fantasy aspect of 40K than the Military Sci-Fi part.

Knowledge is Power, Guard it Well
ArcticDog18 Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#35510: May 17th 2022 at 11:19:29 AM

I had an unusual idea for Iron Warriors warband. They would call themselves „Revenants of Olympia”. I think I would use both HH and 40K models for Legionaires and Havocs. HH models would be marines old enough to be present during Siege of Terra or Iron Cage, while newer models are new recruits who have yet to become as bitter and angry as their brethren. The Chaos Lord in Terminator armor would be a brutal, cold and pragmatic leader of this band, who is surprisingly on good terms with Thousand Sons legion. The good relations date back to the Great Crusade, when the lord found kinship with Magnus’ sons and they befriended him by giving one he and his Primarch desired - recognition. Now, the Chaos Lord often sells Daemon Engines Thousand Sons commission and occasionally works together with them, especially when the target are Imperial Fists or Ultramarines.

I will become a great writer one day! Hopefully...
Mara999 International Man of Mystery from Grim Up North Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
International Man of Mystery
#35511: May 17th 2022 at 12:03:18 PM

With Space Wolves, its the sci-fi werewolf aspect that I have always liked, but then I have always been more into the Science Fantasy aspect of 40K than the Military Sci-Fi part.

I like Space Wolves mostly as exaggerated space-Vikings, partly because I am a genuinely invested in the history of Scandinavian Iron Age society and re-enactment, which makes the Hollywood-ian incorrect depiction of Vikings really entertaining for me. I feel that depictions of Norsemen ought to go either for historical fidelity as much as possible, or the extreme opposite by making them ridiculous and entertainingly wrong. Going half-heartedly for some type of middle-ground is cowardice in my book. That's why the Space Wolves are among my favourite chapters, when it comes to amping up the Klingon-ish aspect of fantasy-Vikings as Blood Knight warriors. Spamming the wolf-theme on top of that helps keep up the levity that 40K desperately needs to remain fun.

My vague idea for a Chaos Warband based on the Space Wolves is mostly about focusing on the aspect of Vikings as pirates. Perhaps they could even be neutral enough that they can be hired by others as mercenaries, or even have them deal with Rogue Traders? I could also play with the sci-fi werewolf aspect of the Space Wolves, by making theses traitors behave like a band of horror-movie werewolves. I kinda like the idea of werewolf Space Pirates.

The final insult would’ve been teaming up with Thousand Sons.

Or have them train your sorceres in a close partnership.

I could make this hypothetical Warband be like the Red Corsairs, who have plenty of members that were never originally from the Astral Claws. I could make a Space Wolf-heavy Chaos Warband that leans towards a theme of Vikings-as-pirates, with a dash of horror-movie werewolf. Like actual Viking warbands and pirate crews I'd like them to be a motley bunch, made up of ex-Loyalist Astartes from different Chapters, perhaps even Chaos Marines that got fed up with their original Traitor Legion. Either way, a bunch of greedy malcontents brought together by a mutual desire for plunder.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#35512: May 17th 2022 at 4:31:52 PM

"Spamming the wolf-theme on top of that helps keep up the levity that 40K desperately needs to remain fun."

I think that is part of the issue for many: It dosent come as fun but the wrong kind of goofy, probably because often the space wolf at least feel like chaotic good barbarian in a setting that dosent really allow that shit.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Durazno Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#35513: May 17th 2022 at 7:23:45 PM

Though they only seem chaotic good in comparison to the deep, inky depths the other factions sink to. They are, ultimately, enforcers of the cruelest dystopia in human history.

Medinoc Chaotic Greedy from France Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Chaotic Greedy
#35514: May 18th 2022 at 12:39:37 AM

But they're also the ones who ensure there are people to enforce the dystopia on (and since the Heresy, they tend to be more dedicated to that (fighting threats from without) than enforcing (fighting threats from within) which is more the IG's job).

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
CountDorku Official Tesladyne Employee TM from toiling in the Space Mines Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Official Tesladyne Employee TM
#35515: May 18th 2022 at 3:28:46 AM

I mean, they get some credit for the time after the First War for Armageddon when they saw the Inquisition killing everyone in the name of containment and went "uh, yeah? this? this shit? yeah don't do that"

You are dazzled by my array of very legal documents.
ArcticDog18 Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#35516: May 18th 2022 at 5:34:31 AM

Hey. If I ever decided to play Horus Heresy, could I paint Iron Warriors in colors closer to their 40k version, or would I have to stick to their Heresy color scheme? To be fair, Perturabo had the color scheme closer to the one currently used in 40k.

I will become a great writer one day! Hopefully...
Mara999 International Man of Mystery from Grim Up North Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
International Man of Mystery
#35517: May 18th 2022 at 9:05:24 AM

It's your army, so you ought to be allowed to paint them however you want. Go for 40K-era Iron Warriors colours if that is cooler for you.

Speaking of Perturabo, I have been unable to find any pictures of what he looks like now as a Daemon Prince. I have seen both miniatures and artwork for the other Daemon Primarchs, but Perturabo's appearance is unknown to me.

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#35518: May 18th 2022 at 9:26:28 AM

[up] I don't think GW has ever released an official depiction of Perturabo as a daemon Primarch. I've seen a few fanarts, but most of them just exaggerate his armor to ridiculous proportions while keeping him looking relatively normal.

Edited by Willbyr on May 18th 2022 at 11:31:15 AM

Mara999 International Man of Mystery from Grim Up North Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
International Man of Mystery
#35519: May 18th 2022 at 9:43:30 AM

That's a pity. Lorgar at least gets a crown-shaped bunch of horns. I think Perturabo as a Daemon Prince ought to resemble a Daemon Engine, except more humanoid. I'm picturing something like a cross between an exaggerated Terminator and the Bayformers take on Megatron, with a moving techno-mechanical face.

ArcticDog18 Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#35520: May 18th 2022 at 10:32:30 AM

I thought Perturabo was rumored to look like giant Obliterator, with tons of guns and all. It would’ve been fitting, honestly, considering his Horus Heresy look.

I will become a great writer one day! Hopefully...
Mara999 International Man of Mystery from Grim Up North Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
International Man of Mystery
#35521: May 18th 2022 at 11:25:32 AM

[up]An Obliterator would seem like a good basis for him. I'd want it too look a bit more like a typical cyborg, though, almost like a robot-duplicate of Perturabo.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#35522: May 18th 2022 at 5:16:41 PM

"I mean, they get some credit for the time after the First War for Armageddon when they saw the Inquisition killing everyone in the name of containment and went "uh, yeah? this? this shit? yeah don't do that" "

Which is hilarious when their pre heresy reputation was about being the punisher of the legion, doing the super hard men stuff nobody will do except them.

But with chaotic good is more than "We are full viking, we dont care about rule and you cant tell us what to do!" their constant flipping the bird is annoying to some degree.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
SebastianGray Since: Apr, 2011
#35523: May 18th 2022 at 10:40:37 PM

Which is hilarious when their pre heresy reputation was about being the punisher of the legion

I am pretty sure this was something introduced by the Horus Heresy series of novels. If I remember correctly the reason Russ was sent after Magnus in the original lore (or at least the canon lore at the time I started) was simply because he happened to be with the Emperor at the time Magnus' sorcerous message arrived. Their actions at Armageddon I was their original characterisation.

Knowledge is Power, Guard it Well
Durazno Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#35524: May 18th 2022 at 11:01:49 PM

I guess the idea was to contrast them with their pre-heresy culture? Interesting to have a chapter that improved after the schism, you know?

ArcticDog18 Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#35525: May 19th 2022 at 2:12:48 AM

I had an unusual idea to buy Iron Father Feirros, a box of 10 Mark III Marines, and take one of the helmets from the set to make an Iron Warriors Chaos Lord. The other marines could be used as Legionaires or something.

How dumb this idea of kitbash is?

Edited by ArcticDog18 on May 19th 2022 at 11:13:22 AM

I will become a great writer one day! Hopefully...

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