Naruto

Sasuke really shouldn't be the biggest target on the Karma Houdini list in Naruto, considering Obito who gets to reunite with Rin in death, Orochimaru's slap on the wrist, Kabuto and etc.

Admitably they are a bit soft on him.

Plus there’s just something wrong with how Bolt idolizes the man who’s actually never there for his family.

Man these series has a lot of Karma Houdini’s.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 11th 2018 at 7:33:48 AM

I don't think we're supposed to see Boruto's view of his father figures as particularly mature or correct.

It's impossible for me to accept that Sasuke is any sort of loving husband and father when he barely interacts with his wife (the last time he and Sakura spent any time together was a two-minute date) and whose absence from his daughter's life has caused the girl such a severe trauma that it's activated her Sharingan.

I know, right? He doesn't want to be the Hokage because being a Hokage makes you a shitty dad or whatever, so his solution is to aspire to be like Sasuke, who's such an absentee dad that he might as well have died and turned into wisps upon the wind the moment he inseminated Sakura.

I mean, seriously. The series basically goes out of its way to show that Lee, Sai, Choji, etc. are great dads, but Boruto doesn't spare a glance for them.

But they aren't "cool" dads, which is what he's really looking for.

At least until the events of the movie and he goes "Holy shit, my dad's actually pretty freaking cool."

Sasuke literally offered to kill himself, had to be convinced not to, went on a journey of atonement where he helped people and himself, and the idea he shows 'zero affection' to Sarada when they reconcile is flat out false.

Remember when the Raikage (who nobody gives any crap to) tried to have a little girl kidnapped to harvest her eyes for the good of his village and was part of experiments that kept leading to people in his village dying so they could control a raging demon?

It really does get a bit weird how Sasuke is seen as this irredeemable monster who has barely done anything to atone for his deeds when he barely killed anyone to begin with, unlike Onoki who regularly backstabbed his allies in at least two wars.

It’s because we’ve had to deal with his shit for a long time & thus have taken it more personally than we take say A’s shit.

MC’s are under more scrutiny than side-characters after all.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 11th 2018 at 8:44:31 AM

I was under the impression that the hatred towards Sasuke was because of his "edgy" or somewhat chuuni attitude, as well as the backlash towards the lengths Naruto and Sakura goes towards trying to help him.

Edit: Even Thanos has people legitimately trying to defend his actions, so it's a matter of charisma. Sasuke has almost negative charisma in terms of his personality.

Edited by Ikedatakeshi on Sep 11th 2018 at 11:55:31 PM

Its pretty much a combo of all that.

Aside from being a near one-prick with a brocon obsession constantly fellatiated by the cast & given freebie power-ups.

He is also responsible for the sheer decline in Naruto & especially Sakura's character, as well as his running away is representative of the story's shift to the Uchihaha's, which constitutes a good deal of the series overall Seasonal Rot.

Like what says. For all the shit Thanos pulled at least he's got some charisma.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 11th 2018 at 9:03:13 AM

Sasuke is what would happen if nobody ever beat Vegeta's ass.

Vegeta also committed genocide. Multiple times.

I'm well aware of the history of Dragon Ball and the fact that almost all of its protagonists were at one point mass murderers.

My point, if you're done cherry-picking, is that for all of Vegeta's blustering, posturing, and self-aggrandizing, he was repeatedly beaten, pummeled, and humbled, often by his own hand, in egging his opponents on to stop holding back or outright helping them get strong enough to kick the shit out of him, so he could prove how great he was. And then he failed.

By contrast, not only does Sasuke almost never suffer such a defeat that forces character setback, self-reflection, and actually make him look weak for even a second, but he also has the rest of the cast also sucking him off while he sucks himself off.

Because Kakashi doesn't think this way in canon?

Yeah.

A whiny, miserable self-righteous cunt who:

• saw his entire extended and immediate family left dead in the street
• was led and manipulated to believe that his brother had done so for an inexplicable ambition
• and was also under the assumption that he had to do something about it and dedicate his life to righting that wrong

We always forget that Sasuke is very much a product of his experiences and that Sasuke, more than most anime anti-heroes that we could name, has more reason to be a "self-righteous cunt" than most.

So did Orochimaru. And Madara. And Obito. And they were the coolest guys. Sakura took a team of her friends with her to find Sasuke then drugged them and went to do it herself.

I'm pretty sure Sasuke's "betrayals" have been debated here again and again. Nearly all of them ae led to outcomes that helped the village. Anyone in-universe choosing to demonize Sasuke based on the information they had available prior to Sasuke attacking the summit is being extremely petty, or was already themselves in the wrong (cough) A (cough).

Does Sasuke deserve to be Hokage? No. Does he deserve shit for betraying ditching the village whose leadership is on record for their garbage decisions, produced some of the most monstrous villains in the series, and taking care of a portion of said village's enemies, and inadvertently saving the world with said village's hero? No to that as well.

In a world where clans enslave their members and child soldiers are like, mmkay, holding these crimes against Sasuke seems trivial. If he'd actually killed someone from the Leaf that mattered, or did what Pain did, yeah, I could understand giving him crap. Naruto, for all of his naivete and his bluster, broke down into tears over Zabuza and Haku who were trying to kill him, and 3 out of the 6 people in his life who actually cared about his existence, moments before.

Exhibit A: morality is relative in this series (except when you're Shikamaru)

Exhibit B: Naruto is also a murderer.

So is Kakashi. And Zabuza. And Sakura. Need I go on because there's probably a decent list of murderers but, cutting to the chase, the entire village trains child soldiers.

Edited by Soble on Sep 12th 2018 at 6:21:08 AM

I think one reason people dislike Sasuke is that there are rival turned evil, who have held onto some of their morality after they've gone rogue. However, Sasuke chucked it out very early and is willing to cross lines that still makes him be forgiven by everybody.

@Soble

Sasuke's Fruedian Excuse should be seen as Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse, because past events might explain how a person became what they are but it shouldn't excuse how much they cross the line. That goes for Obito, whose flimsy freudian excuse made him get out of getting what's coming to him. Also their redemption stories in contrast with Zabuza and Gaara, were poorly written.

Edited by firewriter on Sep 11th 2018 at 9:28:19 AM

It doesn't excuse their actions but it does explain them and evokes sympathy. And, ultimately, there's not much to be excused anyway. Sasuke didn't actively, negatively impact the village like this insistence on backstory =/= future actions implies. Most of his later actions benefited the village.

Edited by Soble on Sep 11th 2018 at 9:40:39 AM

Like I said Sasuke greatly help turn the series into shit.

And so when they finally got to him, what did we get?

Him knocking up Sakura & leaving her alone to raise their child.

Doesn't really make the whole thing feel like it was worth it in the end.

I mean by that point Sasuke had intended to stay in the village with his wife and daughter until the kage decided they should probably get some intel on the Otsutsuki and Sasuke being the one with the Rinnengan would naturally be the one to do it.

That doesn't excuse the fact he never bothered to seen them a little at least once in a while.

Sarada grew up without her father in any way, shape, or form in her life.

This despite the fact Sasuke regularly communes with Naruto for whatever reason about the space rabbits.

Sympathy for someone can be lost based on said persons actions. For us whatever sympathy Sasuke even had to begin with was killed by Sasuke himself in Shippuden.

Sasukes actions having beneficial, but unintended, consequences for the village likewise falls into that because of his intent. Especially his dumb edgelord plan to justify the last fight of Shippuden. If I misunderstood that last part and that refers to Sasuke as a wandering hobo I apologize for that.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Sep 11th 2018 at 9:58:54 AM

Well with Sasuke here's my thoughts:

I think a big problem is that his "turning evil" arc happened too early and took too long. He's treated as Naruto's "best friend ever!" but I never bought that. When Sasuke went rogue, Naruto and him felt less like friends and more like Worthy Opponents.

A similar thing kind of goes with him and Sakura. Sakura's affection for him felt very shallow at that point.

In fact, with Sasuke's ability to attract women, I felt that was essentially an indecisive parody of sorts. Sasuke is the kind of guy who would attract fangirls who fawn over him for being a "bad boy" despite him not being really all that likeable of a person. It works as a joke, but not as a serious plot thread.

x3 While that's true, I actually do rather like the implication is that Sasuke IS damaged and has difficulty expressing his affection to his wife and daughter even if he does love them.

Edited by lycropath on Sep 11th 2018 at 9:59:00 AM

The reason that falls flat with Vegeta is because he never really gets too hindered by it. He always picks himself back up, gets stronger, and is now one of the most powerful beings in multiple universes who isn't stopping with getting stronger. Even death is just a slap on the wrist in Dragonball.

That also happened to Sasuke more than once in three-four separate fights I can think of. In the Kage Summit he was about to die without outside help three separate times. The penultimate chapters of Naruto are filled with Sasuke undergoing just that self reflection and realizing he's been awful, and apologizing for it.

Meanwhile, Sasuke has done next to nothing as evil as things Vegeta was doing in literally the first time we ever meet him.

Edited by Lightysnake on Sep 11th 2018 at 10:20:36 AM

Never forget that Bulma left Yamcha to get together with his murderer. And Goku is an even worse husband and father than Sasuke is.