| 1 | For WMG regarding the entire Marvel Cinematic Universe, go [[WMG/MarvelCinematicUniverse here]]. |
| 2 | |
| 3 | ---- |
| 4 | |
| 5 | [[foldercontrol]] |
| 6 | |
| 7 | [[folder:Pre-release Theories]] |
| 8 | |
| 9 | |
| 10 | [[WMG: S.H.I.E.L.D. has access to alien technology.]] |
| 11 | Tony Stark created a new element, based on information from his father, Howard. Howard apparently knew of the existence and nature of the element, but lacked the ability to synthesize it. However, how would he know, for a fact, such an element existed at all? One possible explanation: he had a sample of it. Perhaps a limited sample that were used to create, say, Captain America's shield, which we know he did. So, where would he get a sample of a wonder material? If this element is basically Vibranium or an analog, it could be he got it from a meteor impact, like in the comics but given the general tone of the movies, a crashed space craft would be more credible. Given Howard's known ties to ComicBook/{{SHIELD}} (or proto-SHIELD), and scientific genius, he'd be a logical person to be brought into such an investigation. |
| 12 | * Eh, in the Captain America movie Howard analyzed a piece of the cosmic cube that blew up. It's entirely possible that the element was based off the cosmic cube, and Howard worked enough to know how it was made, but couldn't with his technology. Which could mean that [[spoiler: Tony now has a piece of knock-off cosmic cube or related material powering his armor!]] |
| 13 | * ''The Avengers'' did mention [[spoiler:that S.H.E.I.L.D. was using the Tesseract/Cosmic Cube to try and create better weapons, as well as reverse engineering The Destroyer to create even more powerful weapons. The Tesseract was Asgardian, and is considered to be alien.]] |
| 14 | * Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. pretty much confirmed that they have ''some'' alien technology, such as GH.325. |
| 15 | |
| 16 | [[WMG: Thor will recognize the Tesseract]] |
| 17 | And then correct everyone, by telling them it's called a Cosmic Cube. |
| 18 | * {{Jossed}} |
| 19 | |
| 20 | [[WMG: The Cosmic Cube...]] |
| 21 | Will be used as a power source for Tony's strongest armor. |
| 22 | * {{Jossed}} |
| 23 | |
| 24 | [[WMG: There will be a scene where Cap lifts Mjölnir in ''The Avengers’'.]] |
| 25 | He's already been shown worthy of lifting it in the comics. The scene(s) could resemble one or both of the following: |
| 26 | * Steve nonchalantly picks it up to hand it to Thor (or just to casually inspect it, not knowing what it is), astonishing the god of thunder. Double hilarity points if there has already been a scene establishing that Tony ''can't'' pick it up, and he then tries (and fails) to again after seeing Steve offhandedly do so. |
| 27 | * The Avengers are on the ropes. Loki's forces are advancing, buildings are being destroyed, civilians are screaming and running for their lives. Thor is downed and Mjölnir is knocked out of his hand. Cap steps up to the plate, grabs the mighty hammer, and delivers blow after powerful blow to their enemies without a second thought. |
| 28 | * All {{Jossed}} unfortunately. [[spoiler: But Hulk did try and pick it up during his fight with Thor. He wasn't worthy.]] |
| 29 | * Alternately, Cap will die through some honorable means, and his shield will be imbued with the same magic as Mjölnir. Since Vance Astro is bound to appear in ''Film/GuardiansOfTheGalaxy2014'', he will be the next person to be worthy to wile it. |
| 30 | * Apparently in the sequel Thor will challenge the other Avengers to try and pick it up, and Cap succeeds in moving it, though not lifting it entirely. |
| 31 | * Cap ''may'' still lift Mjolnir in a future - as a sign of character development. Or probably in real combat situation, just not for lulz. |
| 32 | ** He lifts it in ''Endgame''. |
| 33 | |
| 34 | [[WMG: ''The Avengers'' will have massive cameos for future Avengers members]] |
| 35 | The Pyms, or at least Hank, would be one of the obvious choices. Swordsman could appear, setting him up for a possible Hawkeye film. Doctor Strange could appear if the rumors about a movie for him become true. Other commonly associated members without ties to the continuity already could appear as well, such as Ms. Marvel, Black Panther, and Vision. |
| 36 | * Wendell Vaughn is already confirmed as a SHIELD agent. Quasar, anyone? |
| 37 | ** Would be pretty cool to see that there are already established supers other than Hawkeye and Black Widow as Avengers members, but it seems unlikely to me that it would happen that way, as I doubt Fury and Romanov wouldn't have called in backup when the Hammeroids went on their rampage. |
| 38 | * Sadly, [[TropeNamer Jos]][[{{Jossed}} sed]]. While we do see [[spoiler:the [[ComicBook/TheUltimates Chitauri]] and ComicBook/{{Thanos}}]], we do not see new heroes. ComicBook/AntMan is confirmed to have a movie in production, and has been [[WordOfGod stated by producer Kevin Feige]] to have been the "friend with experience with SHIELD" that Selvig spoke of in ''Thor'', though. |
| 39 | * [[ComicBook/XMen Beast]] will join the team, but only for a short while before returning to Xavier's school. |
| 40 | ** Sadly, this one is ScrewedByTheLawyers. Marvel does not currently own the film rights to the X-Men. |
| 41 | *** They do, however, have the rights to the Avengers, and Beast has been both. The fact that Quicksilver is confirmed for both the next ''X-Men'' movie and the next ''Avengers'' movie, the possibility that Beast might show up later still exists. Apparently there is a loophole in the rights that allows this sort of thing, just so long as the MCU doesn't use the M-word. |
| 42 | |
| 43 | [[WMG: The Avengers will fight the Hulk as soon as the team forms]] |
| 44 | And then, at the climax of the movie, after a bit of coaxing/apologizing, Hulk will team up with the Avengers to pull a big damn heroes moment. |
| 45 | * Even better. Picture this. Bruce goes to a city as the hulk apparently able to control it. Of course, the Hulk CooldownHug corollary takes effect somehow and he rampages. Tony Stark Steps in and manages to hold the hulk off. Meanwhile, at shield headquarters cap has just been unfrozen. He sees a news report and is concerned. Fury tells him that they are working on something and that they need a few more minutes. Cap asks if the guy in the suit can last that long. Cut back to the fight. Iron <an starts losing, and just as he's about to be finished, a shield flies in and hits him on the head. Captain America has arrived. They fight and...continue to get their asses kicked. Suddenly, Nick and Black widow drive up. nick throws a device at The hulks feet. Stark asks what it is. Fury says "A signal". Then a beam of light hits the ground. It's the mighty Thor. Thor fights hulk and beats him into submission. He reverts to Banner. Later, banner is in a holding cell and the team if fighting the main villains. They're losing. Banner says to Coulson that they need to let him out, that the hulk can help. Coulson says he can't take the risk. Banner gets angry, but calms himself down and closes his eyes. Then opens them with green irises and says "you don't have a choice" |
| 46 | * Or: The Avengers pick up just where The Incredible Hulk left, in the cottage where Banner turns into the Hulk voluntarily. SHIELD picks up this in some way or another, and send in Iron Man. At some point, Thor arrives, and takes out the hulk. Then, all three return to the Helicarrier. This is even supported by the Avengers teaser: Stark telling Thor that the latter has a "nice swing", followed by a flashback of Thor throwing his hammer at something in a forest. |
| 47 | * [[spoiler:Confirmed, but Hulk is fought from a combination of stress from a sudden attack and influence from Loki. He's fought only by Thor and briefly an fighter jet, while Black Widow just runs like heck from him.]] |
| 48 | |
| 49 | |
| 50 | [[WMG: The Other, Thanos' lieutenant...]] |
| 51 | Is Corvus Glaive, the Mad Titan's similarly nihilistic right-hand man from Hickman's '''ComicBook/{{Infinity}}''' story. Amusingly, in Infinity, it may have happened this way in reverse: where Corvus is based at least visually on The Other. |
| 52 | * Jossed. Corvus Glaive is a different character that appears in ''Infinity War''. |
| 53 | |
| 54 | [[WMG: Coulson's Cellist girlfriend was performing in Germany.]] |
| 55 | * But Coulson clearly said she moved to Portland, Oregon. |
| 56 | ** Orchestras tour though! |
| 57 | |
| 58 | [[WMG: Legal/studio/rights issues aside…]] |
| 59 | It's tremendously satisfying to imagine all of Marvel's heroes in New York fighting the invasion in their own ways. Tobey or Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man, Hugh Jackman and the X-team, even Affleck's Daredevil--and all of them kicking as much as as they possibly can. |
| 60 | * Jossed. Different versions of those characters appear in later works. |
| 61 | |
| 62 | [[WMG: Director Fury's superiors...]] |
| 63 | Are the Commission on Superhuman Activities, Mark Gruenwald's famous OmniscientCouncilOfVagueness from the 80s Cap comics. Just 'cause. |
| 64 | * Jossed. They're the World Security Council. |
| 65 | |
| 66 | [[WMG:Tony will be revealed to be a Captain America fanboy.]] |
| 67 | Possibly due to Howard telling him some old war stories about the "Star Spangled Man with a Plan". |
| 68 | * Apparently, going by some interviews with the cast, it seems that Tony won't be filling this role (and then again, if the "Genius Billionaire Philantrophist" scene is any indication, we'll have a more "complex" relationship with Steve/Tony), and that [[spoiler:Agent Phil Coulson]] will be revealed to be a huge Captain America nerd. |
| 69 | ** Sorta {{Jossed}}. [[spoiler:At first he doesn't seem to take him seriously, even remarking how unconvinced he is after his father constantly talked about him. By the end though, he at least seems to respect Cap.]] |
| 70 | |
| 71 | [[WMG:Hawkeye is going to betray the rest of the team about halfway through.]] |
| 72 | Only to be brought back to the side of the Avengers near the climax. I don't have much in the way of evidence, it's just a feeling I'm getting from the trailers and the released info about him. |
| 73 | * [[spoiler:The movie storybook seems to support the idea of a BrainwashedAndCrazy Hawkeye, mentioning that he falls under the control of Loki at one point.]] |
| 74 | ** Half Jossed, half confirmed. [[spoiler:He's BrainwashedAndCrazy at the beginning, but by the latter half is freed from his control.]] |
| 75 | |
| 76 | [[WMG:The BigBad of the film will be the [[ComicBook/TheSentry Void]].]] |
| 77 | And the plot will be as close to ''{{ComicBook/Siege}}'' as possible without having either Spider-Man or Norman Osborn in it. Yes, this means [[spoiler:Loki [[RedemptionEqualsDeath dies]] to [[HeroicSacrifice stop the Void]] (in a "MyGodWhatHaveIDone" moment after having schemed to create it)]]. |
| 78 | * Jossed. [[spoiler:Loki is the villain. His closest ally is the Other, the leader of the Chitauri, who is taking orders from who's revealed in the post-credits scene to be ComicBook/{{Thanos}}.]] |
| 79 | |
| 80 | [[WMG:At one point, the Villains will have basically won- New York will be a occupied territory, S.H.I.E.L.D. and the U.S. Military will be on the run, the President will have been sent to a undisclosed location, countries around the world will be surrendering in fears they will be next, etc. The climax will be the Avengers' last-ditch effort, intended to either save the world or take out Loki trying.]] |
| 81 | * Hence why Tony says that while the team might not be able to save the world, they'll be sure to avenge it. |
| 82 | ** Jossed. [[spoiler:They win in the end, and even though Nick Fury's higher-ups question how dangerous a team like the Avengers will be, it is not fully explored in the end.]] |
| 83 | |
| 84 | [[WMG:In the film, Thor will arrive via Arc Reactor.]] |
| 85 | ComicBook/RedSkull [[spoiler:is disintegrated when the Cosmic Cube goes category-five apeshit, with a beam of light shooting into the sky when the technology supporting it]] is destroyed by Cap's shield. The result is [[spoiler:a portal into what Thor's movie showed to be the Yggdrasil between Asgard and Jotunheim (or Earth)]], and it's very heavily implied (almost insultingly so) that [[spoiler:the Cosmic Cube is the very same element that Tony Stark discovered to complete the Arc Reactor (which, coincidentally, conveniently explains how his palladium poisoning was cured so fast: funny things, godly toys...)]]. To wrap up, in ''Film/IronMan1'', Stane was KO'd when Pepper blew the reactor, resulting in a beam of light shooting into the sky. With the application of the [[spoiler:[Cosmic] Cube element with equipment powerful enough to harness it, we have us a man-made Bifrost Bridge]]. |
| 86 | * Except, the novelization [[spoiler:of ''Film/IronMan2'']] states that [[spoiler:the element Tony discovered was vibranium. The vibranium itself may have been created with, or contain, [a fraction of] the power (or similar power) of the Cosmic Cube]]. Also, [[spoiler:the Cosmic Cube]] is an [[spoiler:object]], while [[spoiler:vibranium]] is an [[spoiler:element]]. |
| 87 | ** The idea of Tony [[spoiler:discovering vibranium]] is further supported in The Avengers when [[spoiler:both Tony's internal reactor and Cap's shield are shown to be capable of resisting Asgardian energy]]. |
| 88 | ** Maybe it was Vibranium and he just pumped it full of arc reactor energy or something like that. Isn't vibranium supposed to be able to absorb ungodly amounts of energy? |
| 89 | ** Well, godly energy too but I get your point. |
| 90 | * A/The Arc Reactor may still be responsible for bringing Thor back to Earth. Though destroyed at the end of Film/IronMan1, it could have been rebuilt...and, re-destroyed? How else, other than by being destroyed, [[spoiler:could the Arc Reactor create a portal between Midgard (Earth) and Asgard]]? |
| 91 | * Though not confirmed to appear in the ''[[Film/TheAvengers2012 first]]'' movie, Jane Foster could still have completed her research - which would probably lead to [[spoiler:finding or creating new paths between Asgard and Earth]]. |
| 92 | ** Maybe she's [[spoiler:kidnapped in the first movie - and that would be something driving]] Thor. Maybe she will be [[spoiler:rescued]] at the end of the first (in a cameo), or in the second (be part of the cast). |
| 93 | * As happens in the comics, Asgard (with Thor) could appear in the sky, floating above some place on Earth. That could be a reason people (especially those not discharging weapons) were looking at the sky, in the trailer. |
| 94 | * Jossed. [[spoiler:Thor arrives through a different way. Not entirely sure though as the dialogue wasn't made clear.]] |
| 95 | * [[spoiler: Loki quickly said that Odin must have conjured enough power or magic to bring Thor to earth.]] |
| 96 | ** Specifically, he said [[spoiler:that Odin must have scrounged hard to find enough "dark energy" to send Thor to Earth]]. |
| 97 | ** Which makes sense, because [[spoiler: the Bifrost is essentially a wormhole system connecting the nine world. So, wormholes being composed mostly of negative energy, right, and science and magic being synonymous in Asgard, it seems that Aesir tech/magic is capable of scrounging enough space-bending positrons or some other phlebotinum to make a mini-wormhole sans Bifrost]]. |
| 98 | |
| 99 | [[WMG:There will be more than one returning villain in The Avengers, and they'll be teaming up with Loki.]] |
| 100 | [[spoiler:Red Skull]] didn't get vaporized at all; he was warped to [[spoiler:Asgard]] instead. If the team of heroes is an AllStarCast, shouldn't the team of villains be, too? |
| 101 | * To add further credence to this theory: in the first full trailer, [[http://youtu.be/eOrNdBpGMv8?hd=1&t=52s around the 0:56 mark]], [[spoiler:there is a jet shown, which looked quite like the jet the Red Skull built in ''Film/CaptainAmericaTheFirstAvenger'']]. |
| 102 | ** I'm pretty sure that's the [[spoiler:Quinn jet]]. |
| 103 | ** Jossed, kind of. Skull is out, as are the other villains people went with - the Skrulls, but another alien race is hinted at. Leading to... |
| 104 | * Jossed. Loki is the only returning villain. |
| 105 | |
| 106 | [[WMG:The alien army Loki will have will be the Frost Giants]] |
| 107 | If one considers extradimensional beings as aliens, Loki's army could be the Jotun: he cons them into thinking Thor and Odin are responsible for the Bifrost Massacre, and convinces them to attack Midgard in revenge. He hates the Jotun as well, but they don't need to know that - I can totally see Loki being the sort of person who wouldn't care which bystanders and nameless pawns die in the conflict - human, Aesir or Jotun - as long as he sees those he hates pay as much as possible and acquires his aims. |
| 108 | * The Assemble trailer gives a few brief shots of the aliens and they do indeed look very much like frost giants. That would make sense seeing as how the portal that Loki fell into at the end of Thor was connected to Jotunheim. Where they got lasers and space planes however remains a mystery. It's also possible that the army he is referring to is the Kree. Or Red Skull really did survive and now makes a living selling Hydra stuff to the frost giants. (This ties in nicely to my "Red Skull wound up on Jotunheim" Theory actually.) |
| 109 | ** One of the aliens faces is shown in the "Head Count" Tv spot and they are definitely not frost giants. I'm also doubting they are the Kree at this point. Someone in the comments of an earlier trailer made the claim that they were dark elves but thats a youtube comment so it should probably be taken with a very large grain of salt. |
| 110 | *** Zombies? They looked like that to me. |
| 111 | *** [[spoiler:Jossed. The alien army, according to WordOfGod are the "Chitauri" from the ComicBook/UltimateMarvel universe. (Yes, even if they're InNameOnly...)]] |
| 112 | |
| 113 | [[WMG:At some point in the movie, Steve will talk to Tony about Howard.]] |
| 114 | And he will tell him "[y]ou're a lot like him". Maybe insultingly at first, but the next time will be a SugarWiki/{{Heartwarming Moment|s}}. |
| 115 | * Jossed [[spoiler:Fury does mention Howard to Steve, and Tony discusses Howard to Banner after not being impressed by Steve, but Steve and Tony don't talk about it amongst themselves.]] |
| 116 | |
| 117 | [[WMG:Black Widow and Hawkeye will have a romantic subplot in this movie.]] |
| 118 | They had a relationship in the comics, albeit one that ended very badly, and they're the two Avengers we know the least about. It stands to reason they'll have a good storyline of their own. |
| 119 | * All the other characters already have love interests, so that seems very likely. |
| 120 | ** Except, Cap missed his date with his love interest [[spoiler:When he went to sleep, about seventy years ago]]. Of course, there is [[spoiler:also Maria Hill]]. Or, maybe, Cap [[spoiler:chooses to remain... Single]]. |
| 121 | ** Cap has Sharon Carter, who appeared at the end of his movie, though she may hold off appearing in order to show up in the Captain America sequel. Anyways, this WMG is pretty much confirmed by WordOfGod, sort of. According to the actors, Hawkeye and Widow had a prior relationship that Hawkeye "clings to." |
| 122 | * Beautifully Jossed by Scarlett Johannson herself -- [[http://www.slashfilm.com/60-learned-set-the-avengers/ "There's no time for romance, we have shit to Avenge."]] |
| 123 | ** While this is true, there being no full-blown romantic drama going on between them, there ''was'' major implication that their history and relationship goes a bit deeper than the average friendship... |
| 124 | *** Fully Jossed as ''Age of Ultron'' reveals that Hawkeye is married with children. |
| 125 | |
| 126 | [[WMG:The Wasp will appear, if not in the first, in a second Avengers movie.]] |
| 127 | And her tendency, in the comics, to switch costumes a lot, each one more flamboyant than the other, will provide an excellent opportunity for an ActorAllusion. [[Music/LadyGaga Which young female celebrity has a similarly bizarre fashion sense]]? |
| 128 | * [[spoiler:Lady Gaga]] as Wasp? No. ''[[BigNo God]]'', no. |
| 129 | * I think they would use [[spoiler:Music/NickiMinaj]] as Wasp. |
| 130 | ** You disgust me. |
| 131 | * How about Creator/LucyLiu for wasp? |
| 132 | ** I SECOND THIS. I SECOND THIS FOREVEEER. |
| 133 | * Jossed |
| 134 | ** Is it? Did you look ''really'' hard? She’s hard to spot sometimes. |
| 135 | *** Definitely jossed by ''Film/AntMan1''. The first Wasp (Janet) couldn't appear in either this film or ''Age of Ultron'' due to [[spoiler: being trapped in the Quantum Realm]], and the second one (Hope) wasn't even active at the time ''The Avengers'' came out. |
| 136 | |
| 137 | [[WMG:ComicBook/SpiderMan will have a cameo in the film]] |
| 138 | Think about it logically. Granted, Spidey wasn't in the original line up for the Avengers...but Film/{{The Avengers|2012}} is out in 2012, and so is ''Film/TheAmazingSpiderMan''; it makes sense that they ask Creator/AndrewGarfield to do a spot of filming alongside [[Creator/RobertDowneyJr RDJ]] and Creator/ChrisEvans; they could have Spidey act like a fanboy around Tony and Steve; Tony cause he's a technological genius, and Steve cause he's... Well ComicBook/CaptainAmerica. He could even phone Gwen after and say "[Hey Gwen, guess what? I just met CAPTAIN AMERICA!" And for one more tip of the hat, if the Avengers takes place after the events of TASM, then Spidey could have his original red and blue costume on. |
| 139 | * Wouldn't work. Marvel Studios doesn't have the rights to Spider-Man or X-Men, which kinda puts a wrench into the works. |
| 140 | * ''Film/XMenFirstClass'' may or may not be in continuity with these films (they sure as hell aren't in continuity with the other X-men films), but it's not outright stated. It's possible that future ''Spider-Man'' and ''X-Men'' films will make reference to the Avengers or the the events of this film without the characters actually showing up, at least not until Marvel can get the rights to them back. |
| 141 | * Jossed |
| 142 | * Further jossed based on commentary from ''The Incredible Hulk''. They had asked Sony if they could use Empire State University, but Sony declined. They also asked if they could have Spider-Man swing by in the background of a scene or just have Tobey Maguire standing in a crowd scene. Both were declined, so the likelihood of Sony connecting ''Amazing Spider-Man'' with a rival company is improbable. |
| 143 | * Well since Marvel were willing to put the Oscorp Tower from The Amazing Spider Man' into the MCU New York skyline alongside Stark Tower, it's possible that something further down the line could be arranged... |
| 144 | ** The deal was too late for it to be incorporated, and ultimately Marvel did [[Film/SpidermanHomecoming their own take]] on everyone's favorite webslinger. |
| 145 | |
| 146 | [[WMG:Someone very important will die in an absolutely heart-wrenching way]] |
| 147 | Joss Whedon is directing. Try not to get too attached to anyone. |
| 148 | * My money's on Coulson. |
| 149 | ** I'm skeptical. In interviews, Marvel Studios has mentioned potential interest in a spinoff TV show starring him. He's the "logical" candidate, from a Whedon writing philosophy perspective, but I'm dubious of Marvel actually approving such. |
| 150 | ** Jossed on Coulson, his actor confirmed he would make it out of this one. On the other hand, ComicBook/{{Hawkeye}} seems to have a patent on getting killed... |
| 151 | ** I don't think even Whedon would be heartless enough to kill a major superhero in his very first film. Even if he is, I feel that Marvel wouldn't be cool with it. |
| 152 | * Some leaked set-pictures and -videos [[spoiler:seemed to show Cap looking hurt]], while [[spoiler:fighting alongside Thor]], possibly in a scene seen in the trailer. Well, [[spoiler:it was a video taken of]] them [[spoiler:shooting a scene]], so there were [[spoiler:no effects (as in blood and stuff)]]. [[[http://www.slashfilm.com/watch-thor-captain-america-fight-the-avengers-set/ Here]] and [[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/19/avengers-captain-america-avengers_n_931715.html here]].] |
| 153 | * I'm going to bet and say that it's going to be Loki in a case of RedemptionEqualsDeath. |
| 154 | ** I doubt it. It may [[ManipulativeBastard seem that way]], but as comic!Loki said, "After all, the first thing a sorcerer of quality learns is to make himself as difficult to kill as possible." |
| 155 | * Confirmed [[spoiler: Coulson, in an attempt to stall Loki from flinging Thor out of the Hellicarier, is stabbed to death by Loki. Everyone is saddened by the loss, even Tony, who at first berates Coulson for being an idiot, but later shows that he too was sorry.]] |
| 156 | ** Actually, Jossed. [[spoiler:WordOfGod is he lives.]] |
| 157 | ** Yeah, well, that wouldn't be the first time Creator/JossWhedon has [[LyingCreator lied.]] |
| 158 | *** Maybe it was [[spoiler: Nick Fury]] that lied. [[spoiler:He did lie about the cards being in Coulson's pocket, why not lie about Coulson's death too? We don't actually see the Medics declare his death; we only hear about it from Fury. We also never see a scene portraying his funeral.]] |
| 159 | ** According to ''Series/AgentsOfSHIELD'', Coulson ''did'' die. What he's doing still kicking in the series itself is actually a plot point. |
| 160 | |
| 161 | [[WMG:The Avengers will go on an epic bender]] |
| 162 | [[OffTheWagon Stark]] is a connoisseur of spirits and [[Film/IronMan2 near]]-[[TheAlcoholic alcoholic]]. Thor is a BoisterousBruiser given to the celebratory tub of meed. Widow is [[VodkaDrunkenski Russian]]. Cap [[NeverGetsDrunk doesn't get drunk]]. I mean, come on! |
| 163 | * What about [[ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk The Hulk]]? When his pulse rises, no one is [[YouWouldntLikeMeWhenImAngry likely to like him]]. Of course, he could be the designated [[DrunkDriver driver]]. |
| 164 | ** Technically, that should be Cap, but maybe [[ComicBook/CaptainAmerica he]] still gets a high blood-alcohol level despite never getting drunk. |
| 165 | * They definitely should! And maybe do something [[KissingUnderTheInfluence stupid]], too? |
| 166 | * "Whoa, whoa Hulk-- whiskey's probably not the best thing for you. You know, I bet that temper of yours would qualify for medical marijuana..." |
| 167 | * I am trying to imagine Bruce and Steve as the straight men to the entire rest of the team. |
| 168 | * Jossed. [[spoiler: There is an after-party of sorts in TheStinger, but it's the Avengers sitting in a partially ruined cafe eating shawarma. It's hilariously awkward.]] |
| 169 | |
| 170 | [[WMG:Steve has a problem with Tony because of ReplacementScrappy issues]] |
| 171 | * Steve's just woken up after being good friends with Howard Stark who's slightly off, but still a good and loyal friend, only to find that his son is just similar enough to evoke painful memories while being this insensitive arrogant brat. Naturally it will take a while for Steve to warm up to Tony and see him as more than a flawed version of his old friend! |
| 172 | ** Jossed. [[spoiler:Steve has other issues at first for working with Tony. Howard isn't even brought up in their arguments.]] |
| 173 | ** Actually, it's entirely possible that this was true, if internalized. Steve ''really'' doesn't like Tony at first, and Tony has a bit of a sibling rivalry complex with Steve--his dad had such respect and affection for this man, yet didn't show any towards Tony. |
| 174 | |
| 175 | [[WMG:The Avengers will leave S.H.I.E.L.D.]] |
| 176 | * The events of the first movie will cause the Avengers to quit in order to work as an autonomous group. |
| 177 | ** Alternately, S.H.I.E.L.D. will consider the Avengers a failure for one reason or another (probably against Fury's wishes) and shut the program down, but Tony and/or Cap will basically say "You can't fire me, I quit!" and reform the group, making it operate out of a Stark-owned mansion in NYC. |
| 178 | ** Jossed. [[spoiler:The group goes their separate ways without SHIELD knowing their whereabouts, but Fury is confident that the group will come back together again should the dire need arise.]] |
| 179 | |
| 180 | [[WMG:Creator/JossWhedon is going to {{Troll}} the audience]] |
| 181 | Every GenreSavvy viewer is well-aware of Joss's love for killing off one of the main character, especially in Film franchises. [[IKnowYouKnowIKNow And Joss is well-aware that most viewers are aware of this]], so he's going to screw with the audience and have someone killed off before the mid-way point...only for it turn out to be DisneyDeath. Then he's going to "[[LikeYouWouldReallyDoIt kill off]]" someone who can't die, because they'll be future movies, but then it will look like they really are dead... only for them to turn up in a BigDamnHeroes [[SugarWiki/MomentOfAwesome moment]]. |
| 182 | * If this does happen then my money is on [[spoiler:Nick Fury.]] |
| 183 | * [[http://fuckyeahitstheavengers.tumblr.com/post/19404919213/i-find-superhero-movies-to-be-a-little-too-neat This does not bode well]]. |
| 184 | ** [[spoiler:Kind of confirmed. Fury doesn’t tell the Avengers that Coulson is being revived to "push" the team.]] |
| 185 | |
| 186 | [[WMG:Loki is going to go all IHaveYouNowMyPretty on Black Widow]] |
| 187 | He definitely seems to eye bang her in the trailer [[Creator/ScarlettJohansson which I can not blame him for in the slightest]] but this troper saw a video on set of [[Creator/ScarlettJohansson Johansson]] wearing what looks like a bright red bed robe. Given [[ComicBook/BlackWidow who]] [[BadassNormal we are talking about]] this is probably going to end very poorly for him. And it might also give us some nice {{Fanservice}}. |
| 188 | * Jossed. [[spoiler:Loki merely is impressed by Widow's stealth, but Loki does prey on her emotions.]] |
| 189 | |
| 190 | [[WMG:Cap will be the one who gets to shout "AVENGERS ASSEMBLE!" in the film's climax.]] |
| 191 | In the comics, whenever that iconic phrased is uttered, it's usually Cap who says it to rally his fellow Avengers against whatever threat they're facing. And given the nature of the threat they're facing, just imagine how freaking amazing it would be to see the Avengers, believed to be beaten and on their last rungs, suddenly rallying together when Captain frigging America shouts out "AVENGERS ASSEMBLE!", thus leading to an-all out epic finale to the movie. I can see many fans rejoicing in the theatres with that one scene. |
| 192 | * Jossed. [[spoiler:The line is not mentioned at all.]] |
| 193 | |
| 194 | [[WMG:Cap and Thor will clash over how to handle Loki]] |
| 195 | Cap wants to stop him, Thor wants to protect him. Possibly Cap will come around to Thor's side, as he once had a surrogate brother (Bucky) who he had lost. |
| 196 | * Then Tony will build an inter-planetary/dimensional communication device, they phone Odin and Loki get's grounded. The rest of the movie is the Avengers hanging out in the break room. |
| 197 | ** Which will be then followed by the Avengers having to fight the Hulk, who gets angry after some minor incident (involving Tony?), which then becomes a full blown fight. |
| 198 | ** Jossed. |
| 199 | |
| 200 | [[WMG:Jenny Agutter's character is Peggy's daughter]] |
| 201 | * Possibly Falsworth's, too, for maximum Britishness. |
| 202 | ** Jossed. She's apparently gonna play a ObstructiveBureaucrat character that's with the "World Security Council". |
| 203 | *** Assuming she's human, she's got to have parents. Two of them. |
| 204 | *** Her last name is Hawley. |
| 205 | |
| 206 | [[WMG:Steve will respond to Tony's 'Playboy Genius' boast with an armor-piercing statement]] |
| 207 | * It'll probably be something pertaining to Tony's father, and might be a bit harsh, but fair. |
| 208 | * Respond he did. [[spoiler:He knew men with none of that worth ten of Tony.]] |
| 209 | |
| 210 | [[WMG:Thor vs. Steve happens because...]] |
| 211 | * A classic superhero [[LetsYouAndHimFight misunderstanding]] on the part of Cap, who's tasked with dealing with the supposed threat by Nick Fury. |
| 212 | * [[spoiler: If Skrulls are indeed involved, the scene possibly involves either Cap or Thor being a Skrull, thus the fight.]] |
| 213 | * In the comics, Loki is known for his mind manipulation, and the situation in the forest could be our favorite MagnificentBastard Norse God of Lies doing his usual thing in tricking Cap that Thor's an enemy to be taken down. |
| 214 | ** Jossed. [[spoiler:Thor frees Loki from Cap and Iron Man's custody, so Iron Man goes to confront Thor and have a huge fight that ends when Cap steps in.]] |
| 215 | |
| 216 | [[WMG:The scene between Loki and Tony will be actually be a SugarWiki/{{Heartwarming Moment|s}}]] |
| 217 | * Just a guess, but we don't know whether Film/IronMan is part of the Avengers at this point. This may be the point where Tony unofficially states he's one of the Avengers, while staring down Loki! |
| 218 | ** Confirmed, but it's a SugarWiki/{{Heartwarming Moment|s}} because [[spoiler:Tony does an AndThisIsFor for [[HeroicSacrifice Coulson]]]] before he blasts Loki. |
| 219 | |
| 220 | [[WMG:One or more of the following CMOH will show up]] |
| 221 | * Mr. Stark and Captain Rogers referring to each other as 'Steve' and 'Tony' for the first time. |
| 222 | * Someone making arrangements for Steve to go to England to be reunited with Peggy. |
| 223 | ** That depends if they managed to get Hayley Atwell to reprise her role in a surprise cameo. Or, if need be, they can simply imply that Steve goes to meet Peggy at the end. (With the second option, you can easily do the "full" version of the scene in ''Captain America 2'' for those that want closure.) |
| 224 | *** Or Steve goes to England to visit Peggy at the beginning of the movie, having put it off since waking up, only to find that she has died shortly before arrival. |
| 225 | *** Not quite heartwarming. |
| 226 | *** [[spoiler:One of the tie-in books reveal that Peggy is still alive and well, though.]] |
| 227 | * Thor helping Cap up, accepting the mortal as an equal and worthy warrior at last. |
| 228 | ** We've already seen a snippet of that in the Super Bowl ad, so we're just awaiting full context of that scene. |
| 229 | * Loki's HeelRealization. |
| 230 | ** [[spoiler:Nope.]] |
| 231 | |
| 232 | [[WMG:The giant dragon thing at the end of the latest trailer is...]] |
| 233 | * Fin Fang Foom? |
| 234 | * Midgardian Serpent, given that it's Loki heading up the attack... |
| 235 | * The enemy invaders' warship/weapon of mass destruction. |
| 236 | ** Confirmed |
| 237 | * Fin Fang Foom is its name and it's also the Midgardian Serpent and its involvement means a Ragnarok plot for Thor 2. |
| 238 | * A lost Decepticon from the Film/TransformersFilmSeries. |
| 239 | * [[Series/MightyMorphinPowerRangers Serpenterra!]] [[spoiler:It was even defeated by Iron Man in the same way!]] |
| 240 | |
| 241 | [[WMG:Part of why this movie was made is to create a universe for all future Marvel Studios movies.]] |
| 242 | Because why not? |
| 243 | * Pretty sure that was ''Film/IronMan1'''s job. |
| 244 | ** ''Iron Man 1'' started it, and ''The Avengers'' will expand upon it even more. |
| 245 | *** Confirmed. |
| 246 | |
| 247 | [[WMG:The Hulk is friends with Tony because of how he treats Bruce Banner]] |
| 248 | * After getting "forcibly recruited" by S.H.I.E.L.D., Bruce probably got treated as a cross between a ticking time bomb and a potential experiment, so Tony (for all of his teasing) was probably the first person to treat him like a human being. Hence the reason why the Hulk saves Iron Man's life in the trailer. |
| 249 | ** Between the poking and the mocking over turning into a green rage monster, I don't see where treating him like a human being comes from. |
| 250 | *** Human beings occasionally tease their friends. Tony's not mocking him in that scene, he's being honest; he thinks the Hulk is cool the same way he thinks muscle cars and explosions are cool. |
| 251 | *** Perhaps that ends up being character development for Tony, as he learns to treat Banner with more dignity. Either that, or he's just being playful with him. You know how Tony is... |
| 252 | *** Yeah, he's a dick. If anything, Steve seems to treat Banner better, shaking hands with him and rebuking Stark's antics. Could be that Hulk is saving Tony because it's what Cap would want, thereby teaching Tony to get his head out of his ass. |
| 253 | *** Steve sticking up for Bruce and saving Iron Man as a favor to Cap is Jossed. While some playful teasing does occur. Hulk and Iron Man are best pals. |
| 254 | *** Also, this Joss Whedon quote: |
| 255 | ---> ''"One of the first things Robert said when we were meeting about the movie was “There’s no way Tony Stark gets in a room with Bruce Banner and doesn’t poke him”. There’s no way. He wants to see it happen, he wants to see how that guy works. And that is not only true, not only ended up in the movie but ultimately informs their entire arc, which is one of my favourite things in the movie. The idea that Tony Stark is not intimidated by the concept of the Hulk and, in fact, thinks that Bruce needs to embrace his inner Hulk as it were, sounds like pure classic Tony irresponsibility and in fact it is you know what save us all because and ultimately what saves Tony because he allows Bruce to…he sets him up and lets him gets to the place where he can decide to be the Hulk."'' |
| 256 | *** In ''The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes'', there's one episode where we see Cap telling the Hulk that he is indeed a hero, so maybe we'll have something to that effect in the movie, which leads to that scene Hulk saving Iron Man? |
| 257 | * Confirmed: Tony well respects Bruce for his scientific breakthroughs, and even helps in the development of Banner for accepting that the Hulk is a part of him, much like how he and his Arc Reactor chest piece are one. |
| 258 | ** This is made rather odd [[spoiler:now that, as of ''Film/IronMan3'', [[TorchTheFranchiseAndRun Tony has discarded]] his arc reactor and suits of armor.]] |
| 259 | |
| 260 | [[WMG:''New Super Mario Bros. DS'' predicted Thanos' existence.]] |
| 261 | * If you reverse the dialogue when Mario leaps off the flagpole, he will say "Thanos did shit.", and then run into the castle. |
| 262 | |
| 263 | [[/folder]] |
| 264 | |
| 265 | |
| 266 | |
| 267 | [[folder:Post-release Theories]] |
| 268 | |
| 269 | [[WMG: Loki deliberately had Eric Selvig install the failsafe into the portal device.]] |
| 270 | Eric was under the influence of the septer when he built the device so he couldn't have created the failsafe unless Loki ordered it done. |
| 271 | |
| 272 | Loki could have done this because he didn't trust Thanos and wanted to be able to shut the portal down if something other than an army came out or if the army did not obey his orders, perhaps coming through under another General instead (perhaps the Dark Order). |
| 273 | |
| 274 | Alternatively his intention could have been to get stopped by the Avengers all along because he had a change of heart after meeting Thanos and needed an excuse to both get away from thanos and not return any infinity stones to Thanos without looking like he had stabbed Thanos in the back. Getting tossed into Asgardian jail seems like a convincing cover and he might either have predicted the Dark Elves and counted on their attack causing enough chaos to escape or had an alternate plan to get out eventually and fake his death. |
| 275 | |
| 276 | [[WMG: War Machine was unable to be involved in the final battle of ''Film/{{The Avengers|2012}}'' due to the World Security Council.]] |
| 277 | Rhodes in his War Machine armor would probably have wanted to help out in the battle in New York, but Rhodes works as a member of the Air Force, which is probably more inclined to listen to the World Security Council, who felt that superhero involvement wouldn't change anything, than SHIELD. Having a second Iron Man around could really have helped the Avengers' efforts against Loki's alien forces, but the World Security Council messed things up once again. |
| 278 | * Or alternatively, he could simply not have gotten their in time to help. Starktech armor is fast, but if he is based out in California, it'd take him an hour or two to get to NYC, even if he left the moment the invasion started. |
| 279 | ** Jossed - The ''Iron Man 3'' Prelude comic explains his absence with [[spoiler:Rhodes investigating the Ten Rings in Asia. He eventually arrived at NY but by then battle was over and the Avengers were enjoying some shawarma.]] |
| 280 | |
| 281 | [[WMG: Jane Foster wasn't being protected from Loki]] |
| 282 | Jane Foster was put in protective custody to protect her from Creator/JossWhedon. We know how he feels about happy relationships. |
| 283 | |
| 284 | [[WMG: Thor's Hammer versus Cap's Shield...]] |
| 285 | The reason that the impact of Thor's hammer did not crush Cap was not just because of the construction of Cap's shield from Vibranium. It was also because of the nature of the "magic" of Thor's hammer and how "virtuous" Cap is. The hammer was not going to do harm to a person like Cap and the combination of the "magic" along with Cap's shield created the impact of the immovable object versus the unstoppable force reaction. |
| 286 | |
| 287 | [[WMG: Black Widow is a [[Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer Slayer]]]] |
| 288 | It was implied that she started learning the spying/assassin business as a kid. Traditionally when potentials are taken from their homes. It's not impossible that the Soviet/Russian government got hold of the spell to detect potentials and used it to find and train potentials, so at the very least they would have one Slayer assassin. If Black Widow as born in the mid eighties, she would have been caught in the mass activation. Also, Black Widow frequently shows superhuman physical abilities, such as surviving being smashed into a wall by the Hulk, and shows a supernatural talent for weapons aptitude (note the fact that she immediately master the Chitauri staff weapon, which is very much like the scythe of the Slayer). |
| 289 | |
| 290 | [[WMG:Loki was under the influence of the Scepter]] |
| 291 | [[spoiler:He uses his glow stick of destiny to control Selvig and Clint through it. In both cases this control is broken by head injuries and unconsciousness.]] |
| 292 | * [[spoiler:Hulk [[CurbStompBattle beats him like a rag doll]] giving him a head injury and possibly knocking him out (?).]] |
| 293 | * [[spoiler:Afterwards the dark circles under his eyes go away, he seems less [[AxCrazy completely insane]], and [[GracefulLoser comes quietly without insulting anyone]].]] |
| 294 | ** [[spoiler:Except the bags under Lok's eyes are a completely different effect then what happens when somebody is mind-controlled and he doesn't seem any different then he was before for his whopping one line after his beating. Also if he was under mind control why would the Other let him talk back to him? Why would the Other even feel the need to threaten him at all? A more likely reason for him going quietly is that he's facing down the entire Avengers team while he's injured, stripped of his weapon and has no way to escape and now that his plan has failed he knows Thanos will be coming after him. It's probably safer to be imprisoned in Asgard then alone on the run.]] |
| 295 | ** [[spoiler:Not necessarily... I personally think that it wasn't really mind control that he was under. Remember when the Avengers were all arguing and it was implied that the staff had some hand in their argument? It's my suspicion that just being around it can perhaps intensify negative emotions. If that is so, then think of what it would have done to Loki. He has some major negative emotions going on towards just about everything and carrying that staff with the stone in it around all the time would probably have a huge effect on him. It would explain the rather out of character-ness he had in the movie.]] |
| 296 | *** [[spoiler: How in the world was he out of character? He's less sympathetic but I didn't see anything out of character. And Loki is much more in control of himself in Avengers then he was at the end of Thor when his emotions were out of control which contradicts your theory.]] |
| 297 | *** [[spoiler: The thing to remember about Loki and why he's a little more vicious in Avengers than in Thor is because 1. The Other makes it very clear good things are not in his future if he fails and 2. In Thor, he's on Asgard, with people he considers equals, and in Avengers he's on Earth, with people he views as far, far beneath him. In his own words, "An ant has no quarrel with a boot." Plus, sympathetic or no, he tried to kill a whole planet in Thor. So, yeah... everything in Avengers made sense for Loki's character.]] |
| 298 | ** Subsequent WordOfGod indicates that the Scepter was subtly influencing him. |
| 299 | |
| 300 | [[WMG: Robin Sherbatsky is Maria Hill's civilian alias]] |
| 301 | * Barney, Marshall and Lily appear in the epilogue, in a blink and you'll miss it scene, on one of the news broadcasts. This is the only justification for this idea. This leads to... |
| 302 | |
| 303 | [[WMG: Maria Hill introduces Natasha Romanov to Ted at one of Tony's New Years parties]] |
| 304 | * Ted helped design Stark Tower, and Barney helps Tony design his suits. And that's Series/HowIMetYourMother. |
| 305 | -->Hey kids, did I ever tell you about the time your mom and I thwarted one of Doctor Doom's plans for world domination? |
| 306 | * Jossed. |
| 307 | |
| 308 | [[WMG: Tony Stark is preparing to finance the Avengers outside of SHIELD.]] |
| 309 | Why do you think [[spoiler:he and Pepper are doing a redesign of Stark Tower—not just a rebuilding of it—at the end of the film.]] Also note that they don't seem to be in a hurry to put the S, T, R and K on the tower... |
| 310 | * Confirmed. |
| 311 | |
| 312 | [[WMG: Loki took on the Hulk out of hubris.]] |
| 313 | Thor's "falling death trap" escape made Loki think that he truly was immortal and perhaps impervious. So why not threaten the most powerful member and prove yourself worthy? Alas, the trickster god is GenreBlind to his own schemes... |
| 314 | * And/or because Loki was at the end of his rope: injured, tired, disarmed, and psychologically stressed by his plan starting to unravel. He probably didn't have the energy left to do much other than monologue. |
| 315 | |
| 316 | [[WMG: The Avengers Initiative and SHIELD are a part of [[Series/DoctorWho UNIT]].]] |
| 317 | That helicarrier that they use looks quite similar to the Valiant from the Whoniverse. So who's to say that it's not actually from the same universe? After all, both SHIELD and UNIT get involved in protecting the Earth from extraterrestrial threats. I bet they're part of the same organisation. |
| 318 | * Wait, SHIELD (first appearance: 1965) and the Helicarrier (again, 1965) both predate UNIT, so wouldn't it be the other way around? |
| 319 | ** And in setting, SHIELD's predecessor, the SSR, dates back to 1941. . . |
| 320 | ** Here's some food for thought: in the original comics, SHEILD maintained a special training facility called the Underground Network Training (it's in Strange Tales 159, if you must know). Eh? Eh? |
| 321 | |
| 322 | [[WMG: The Avengers movie has, and the following movies will have, a subtle theme of the [[spoiler:Infinity Gems]]]] |
| 323 | In the Avengers, Loki's Staff/spear [[spoiler:is obviously used to mess with and control minds. It also glows blue... the same color as the Mind Gem of the Infinity Gems. This is intentional, and the future movies will have subtle influences of themes such as Time, Reality, Space, Souls &/or Power. This will all be done subtly, but set up for a moment when Thanos is revealed to have been subtly messing with the heroes via the gems before he got the Infinity Gauntlet.]] |
| 324 | * [[spoiler:Except we see the Infinity Gauntlet with all the gems inside Odin's treasure room in Thor. Plus Loki's staff is stated to be powered by the Tesseract.]] |
| 325 | ** Were those the true gems? Maybe like some artifacts placed in a museum, the Asgardians just put fake gems in the gauntlet for display purposes. And about the staff, it is speculated to use the same type of energy used by the Tesseract, not necessarily powered by the Tesseract itself. Captain America says it's like one of Hydra's energy weapons more than anything. |
| 326 | *** Confirmed, the gauntlet and the stones in Asgard are only replicas. |
| 327 | ** Except they weren't in a display, they were in a weapons vault guarded by the Destroyer and the other artifacts in there are real. And Selvig says the control rod is powered by the Tesseract to the Black Widow. And Hydra's weapons were powered by the Tesseract. |
| 328 | * [[spoiler:I'm working on the theory the other things in the trophy room were more just 'fandom nods' than 'it's true continuity'. Even if so, if you compare the [[http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/5618/thorinfinitygauntlet.jpg comic-con Marvel prop images of the Gauntlet]] [[http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/8947/odinsvaultthor550x508.jpg to the movie version]] .... a large blue gem on the back of the palm is missing. ]] |
| 329 | ** Except that's not the version actually in the movie, the version in Thor has the big blue gem in it [[http://www.10mfh.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Thor-Movie-Infinity-Gauntlet-Hi-Res.png]]. |
| 330 | ** To my knowledge, there has been no specific indication of how much time has passed between ''Thor'' and ''The Avengers''. But clearly, some time has passed. In the meantime, the Gauntlet has been sitting in Odin's vault, a vault that has recently been robbed of its primary guardian after Thor trashed the Destroyer. And the guy who would want the Gauntlet happens to have as his minion, a trickster god who knows several back doors into Asgard that could get him in and out without being noticed. Keep in mind, we have no idea what is going on in Asgard after Thor's movie ends. There's a very good chance that something happened in the meantime. |
| 331 | *** ''Thor Ragnarok'' confirms the gauntlet in Asgard is a fake thanks Hela dismissing it as fake. Although Thanos doesn't obtain the gems until shortly before the start of ''Infinity War. So confirmed. |
| 332 | |
| 333 | [[WMG: Tony Stark is TheHeart of Film/{{The Avengers|2012}} team. (Well, A Heart.)]] |
| 334 | It's not immediately obvious, since at first Tony displays few of TheHeart's sterling qualities: he's aggressively arrogant with almost everyone he meets here, he rushes in headfirst and brushes off early attempts at battle planning and teamwork, and half his teammates don't like him (Steve, Thor) or find him exasperating (Natasha, Fury, Coulson). |
| 335 | * But Tony's also the most insistent that SHIELD be honest with its intentions, that advanced technology should not be made into weapons, and that the Avengers are not soldiers or weapons to be deployed blindly at government will. |
| 336 | * He's the first person to genuinely reach out to Bruce Banner with empathy and respect, encouraging him to accept his "condition" as a gift that can help people. Tony's the only person who believes Bruce will join them for the final battle, [[spoiler:and Bruce does show up, with the implication that ThePowerOfFriendship from Tony helped inspire him.]] |
| 337 | * Finally, the climax of the final battle is [[spoiler:Tony's apparent death by HeroicSacrifice, with the focus on the team's reaction to his loss.]] |
| 338 | * Tony's role as TheHeart is complicated: Tony's breaking the team apart more often than bringing it together like a proper Heart, and he shares the role with [[spoiler:Coulson as the SacrificialLion and]] Steve, who as TheGoodCaptain is always the moral center of the Avengers. But while TheHero Steve keeps the team together, TheLancer Tony made sure the team was worth forming in the first place. |
| 339 | |
| 340 | [[WMG: There's something going on with ComicBook/NickFury's left eye.]] |
| 341 | [[http://theavengersshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Avengers-nick-fury.jpg If you look at Nick Fury]] in Film/{{The Avengers|2012}}, his left eye seems to have something similar to what Stark was going through in ''Film/IronMan2''. It may have to do with why he has an [[EyepatchOfPower eyepatch]]. This will probably be elaborated on in later movies, most likely in Avengers 2. |
| 342 | * Not intending to burst a potentially-good plot detail, but [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Nick_Fury the design for Ultimate Nick Fury]] (which Creator/SamuelLJackson lent his likeness to in the beginning) has that nasty scar lines around his eye socket too. It might be that Fury's [[NoodleIncident past missions]] were simply [[WarIsHell that hellish]]. Hey, after all, we did see the All-Father Odin with a [[EyeScream nasty, empty eye socket]] in ''{{Film/Thor}}''. |
| 343 | * Hmm. He does have a scar in ''Film/IronMan2'', but looking at [[http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6YBW5OgZA4E/S7XVmmqnxUI/AAAAAAAAAOc/2favEVIK9Mc/s1600/Iron+Man+2+Nick+Fury.jpg him from Iron Man 2]], compared to how he looks in ''Film/{{The Avengers|2012}}'', that scar looks worse in Film/{{The Avengers|2012}}. I just can't shake the feeling that something is going on with it. |
| 344 | * The major part of the scar, constant between the movies, is a set of three parallel slashes. Since his film rights are owned by Fox, he can't be mentioned, but can you think of a notorious person within the larger Marvel Universe who might have been likely to give Fury a wound of that nature? I'll bet you can, bub. |
| 345 | ** And you're be wrong, as of ''Film/CaptainMarvel2019''. [[spoiler: It's Goose the Flerken who scratched Fury's eye out, because Fury trusted her to behave like the cute kitty she resembles. Which she did, but only to a point.]] |
| 346 | |
| 347 | [[WMG: Agent Phil Coulson will be reborn as The Vision]] |
| 348 | Tony hints of a "Life Model Decoy" when Coulson tries to contact him. And considering that the Vision can change brain patterns..... |
| 349 | * There could be some merit to this. [[spoiler: Yes, he died, and it was a noble death that brought the team together.]] But, after the medical team arrives on scene and [[spoiler: declares him dead, we never see anything else of him after that.]] |
| 350 | ** Wait a minute now. Did we actually here the medics say it, or just Fury say that they called it? |
| 351 | *** Just Fury. Who almost immediately voices a significant lie regarding Coulson's "death" to the team in order to prod them in the direction he wanted. His secrets have secrets, indeed. |
| 352 | |
| 353 | And with SHIELD having this hi-tech helicarrier with hi-tech equipment on board, who knows what happened in the med-bay? What if Marvel is planning to bring back Agent Coulson as Vision? |
| 354 | |
| 355 | It's said at least 3 times in The Avengers that Coulson was dating a cellist. Guess who's a cellist in the Marvel Universe? Wanda Maximoff aka The Scarlett Witch. And who is Scarlett Witch's husband in the comics? Vision, the human/synthetic reincarnation of a dead hero. Both are Avengers. |
| 356 | |
| 357 | [[spoiler: We already know Coulson will be back in some form,]] Gregg's contract is for more films than he's been in so far, and while the original Vision was an android created by Ultron, so far Marvel hasn't been afraid to change certain details to fit the story. |
| 358 | |
| 359 | Now you may be thinking, "But Fox currently holds the right to use mutants." But that isn't necessarily the complete truth. Kevin Feige [[http://movies.ign.com/articles/122/1223433p1.html brought this up at the red carpet premiere.]] According to him, both Marvel and Fox have rights to Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver jointly. I'm guessing the deal is that Marvel can't refer to them as "mutants" and connect them to Magneto or the X-Men in any way, while Fox can't refer to them as being associated with The Avengers. |
| 360 | |
| 361 | What's even more interesting is that he brought up those two characters specifically as characters who could appear in Avengers 2. Why would he mention Scarlet Witch now? It all seems too good to be a coincidence. |
| 362 | * Also, it's probably too much of a coincidence that Coulson just happened to be dating a woman with superpowers. The "dates" were actually a cover story, in reality he was visiting Wanda so he could get her to join the Avengers Initiative. (So Coulson was kinda telling the truth to Tony Stark when he said the dates didn't lead to anything, as Wanda clearly wasn't willing to join the Avengers yet, otherwise he would've been there with the other heroes.) In the second movie she will finally join them, and this time there'll probably be an actual romance with Coulson/The Vision too. |
| 363 | * Jossed. |
| 364 | |
| 365 | [[WMG: [[spoiler: The Other is actually The Red Skull]] ]]. |
| 366 | Ok. At the end of ''The First Avenger'', Skull is burnt alive by the Tesseract and undergoes what looks a lot like a Bifrost transport. ''The Avengers'' establishes that the Tesseract can open a portal to the far reaches of space. The theory is that Skull is transported to wherever [[spoiler:Thanos and the Chitauri]] hail from, whereupon [[spoiler:Thanos]] takes him on as a servant. The Other's physical dissimilarities to Skull can be explained however one likes- genetic alteration, damage from the Tesseract itself or the transportion process. His age (and continued survival after seventy years) can be explained by Erskin's serum, which was explictly mentioned to provide Cap's cells with a protective layer of healing (hence why he can't get drunk). |
| 367 | * Isn't that an awful lots of arbitrary 'could be explained by'? I think its much more likely that [[spoiler: The Other is a true Chitauri. The soldiers were bio-androids, or perhaps cyber-zombies; weapons, IOW, rather than people]]. |
| 368 | * If the [[spoiler:Other were the ComicBook/RedSkull, then he shouldn't have been as unfamiliar with humanity as he was before the invasion. Lines like "Humans... they are not the cowering wretches we were promised" point to him not being human, and thus being unfamiliar with them.]] |
| 369 | ** Firmly {{Jossed}} when [[spoiler: Red Skull himself appears in Film/AvengersInfinityWar six years later, with The Other having been killed off in the meantime]]. |
| 370 | |
| 371 | [[WMG: Tony knows [[spoiler:Coulson is not dead]] ]] |
| 372 | Tony seems to have a revelation when looking at [[spoiler:the bloodstain Coulson left on the wall]] right before he starts on his rant about Loki's ego being similar to his own. Maybe he was beginning to suspect that Fury was lying about [[spoiler:Coulson's death]]. Additionally during his talk with Loki, Tony uses present tense to refer to [[spoiler: Coulson (eg. "His name *is* Phil", not "His name *was* Phil")]]. Now this could just be nothing but still, it's odd. He was also one of the first people to suspect Fury was lying about [[spoiler: what they were doing with the Tesseract.]] |
| 373 | * Also, [[spoiler:the Life Model Decoy was mentioned offhand by Tony earlier in the film, confirming their existence in the MCU. Fury also says that he has a "good friend" keeping an eye on Jane. Who better to do the job than Coulson? The LMD allowed him to be in two places at once.]] |
| 374 | * According to the closed captions for the movie, Tony used the word 'was'. Just for perspective's sake. |
| 375 | |
| 376 | [[WMG: [[spoiler:Coulson will be turned into [[ComicBook/Warlock1967 Adam Warlock]] in a sequel]] ]] |
| 377 | By SHIELD, [[WeCanRebuildHim to save his life]] (and have a trustworthy superhuman as a nice bonus). Or maybe having been [[spoiler:stabbed by a magic glowing pointy thing]] has nasty side effects. One way or another, he'll become orange, superpowered, and eventually be instrumental to defeating [[spoiler:Thanos]]. And yes, this assumes [[spoiler:Loki's spear]] has an [[spoiler:Infinity Gem]], as per another WMG above. |
| 378 | * [[spoiler: Unsurprisingly jossed. Warlock's been set up in [[Film/GuardiansOfTheGalaxy2014 a movie about a team]] that has no connections to Coulson whatsoever]]. |
| 379 | |
| 380 | [[WMG: The next move of [[spoiler:Thanos will be to strike at Asgard.]]]] |
| 381 | Very basic reasoning. The Tesseract can open a door to [[spoiler:Thanos']] area of space, from either end. At the end of the Avengers, both the Tesseract and [[spoiler:Thanos']] Infinity Gauntlet are sitting ''in Asgard'', he's got an obvious motivation to get his hands on both objects, and Earth has just shown it's not an easy target, so [[spoiler:Thanos]] is unlikely to strike it again soon without his cosmic toys. What do you want to bet the plot of Thor 2 or Avengers 2 involves an invasion of Asgard by [[spoiler:Thanos']] minions? |
| 382 | * [[spoiler:It probably won't be ''Thor 2'' as [[http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/00050369.html Kevin Feige says that it will be 'very singular']]. Of course it's possible that could be used as TheStinger for ''Thor 2''.]] |
| 383 | ** [[spoiler: Try TheStinger for ''Film/ThorRagnarok'']]. |
| 384 | |
| 385 | [[WMG: Tony's comment with Bruce means most, if not all, of the [[Film/{{Hulk}} 2003 Hulk movie]] is canon within the Marvel Cinematic Universe.]] |
| 386 | Tony mentions how Bruce miraculously survives his exposure to gamma radiation that results in the Hulk. In the 2003 film, his father experimented on himself, and it passed onto Bruce which lay the seeds for the Hulk. |
| 387 | * Unnecessary. The rebooted origin also had him surviving gamma exposure. |
| 388 | ** Actually, the 2003 film connects nicely to the rest of the movies. The first one tells what happened before banner started hiding in remote countries, and the next movie connects to the first one and the actual Avengers movie by starting out in a remote country, and showing [[spoiler: how Bruce gained control.]] the fact that the first two movies have two different actors portraying banner is irrelevant considering he was replaced again for the Avengers. |
| 389 | *** The 2008 film is said to be a spiritual sequel to the 2003 one, referencing the fact by starting Banner off in a South American country. The intro to the 2008 film shows that the Hulk's origin is similar to the one in the TV show, the exposure to the gamma radiation was deliberate. And it was said in the 2008 film that Banner was attempting to recreate the Super-Soldier Serum, and was sure Gamma radiation was the answer, it's possible he used an experimental serum before the exposure that allowed him to survive, with the Hulk as an unfortunate side effect. |
| 390 | |
| 391 | [[WMG: Loki's non-SHIELD minions are AIM]] |
| 392 | When Selvig asks Barton where the mooks came from, Barton mentions that SHIELD has plenty of enemies. In the comics 'verse, this is usually HYDRA or AIM, and since HYDRA was dismantled during [=WW2=]... |
| 393 | * Presuming, of course, that remnants of HYDRA didn't survive and continue to be a pain for the SSR and its successor, SHIELD. |
| 394 | * Jossed by ''Iron Man 3''. |
| 395 | |
| 396 | [[WMG: Maria Hill will become the new Coulson.]] |
| 397 | With Coulson [[spoiler:dead]], Hill will take on a similar role, making appearances in other MCU films to provide a sense of continuity. |
| 398 | * Jossed. The only non-Avengers movies she appears in are ''Winter Soldier'' and ''Far From Home'', and the later wasn't even her, but a Skrull impersonator. |
| 399 | |
| 400 | [[WMG: The old man that stands up to Loki in Germany and is narrowly saved by Captain America is a Holocaust survivor.]] |
| 401 | It would explain why he was so defiant to him in the first place; he's already spent a very tumultuous period in his life being forced to kneel to people that despise him; he's not going to take this shit from ''anyone '''ever '''''again''''''''''. He's even says, "There are always men like you." Cap goes into a bit more of a Nazi analogy immediately afterward, which I think gives this a bit more credence. |
| 402 | * Some actual German viewers assumed that man had lived through the GDR and their own "freedom from freedom" policies rather than the Holocaust. The history of Germany in the 20th century isn't divided into good people and Nazis, and Hitler wasn't the last cruel leader they endured. |
| 403 | * If anything it would make more sense -- and be better storytelling -- if he wasn't. Aside from the fact that he's way too young, for a lot of Germans -- especially in the immediate postwar generation -- there's a sense of "we let this happen once. We must never let it happen again". |
| 404 | * Or even better, the man could have possibly been a German soldier who regretted his actions in the war. |
| 405 | ** Better yet, he could be the son of a man who was executed for working as a partisan ''against'' the Nazi regime, and Captain America worked with his father. |
| 406 | |
| 407 | [[WMG: The waitress who's grateful for Captain America saving her will become a side character for Cap, and may even appear in ''Captain America 2''.]] |
| 408 | Yes, there's deleted scenes from the movie that show said waitress was flirtatious towards Cap, and I'm going to assume that she'll be a romantic foil or a supporting character for Steve, to go along with Sharon Carter being his SHIELD partner. Or something. |
| 409 | * As I recall her name tag said Beth on it. Are there any continuity savants around to tell us whether or not there were any Cap supporting characters with that name? I can't find any in the MCD. The movie focused on her three times which makes me think this WMG has some substance to it. |
| 410 | * The only close one from the comics I can think of is Elizabeth "Betsy" Ross, and she was around in [=WW2=] not modern era. (IIRC some retcon places her as grandma of Hulk's GF Betty Ross). But of course the movies have combined characters before (Whiplash/Crimson Dynamo & I'd say movie Red Skull is a combo of RS & Zemo. So it could be Betsy combined with some modern love interest of Cap.) |
| 411 | * Jossed |
| 412 | |
| 413 | [[WMG: [[TheRedStapler Shawarma]] will become incredibly popular thanks to this movie.]] |
| 414 | Greek and Middle Eastern restaurants will attract many more customers. Panda Express will petition to have fried rice mentioned in the Avengers 2 movie. |
| 415 | * [[http://www.slashfilm.com/lol-the-avengers-leads-increased-sales-shawarma/ Confirmed???]] |
| 416 | |
| 417 | [[WMG: Cpt. Rogers is rich in this film.]] |
| 418 | He was on active duty when he went under. Odds are, he's owed ''seventy years'' of back pay. Add in pay from SHIELD, inheritance (really, what are the odds that his parents are still alive?) and interest on savings from the 40s, and at the very least Steve's living comfortably. He's not Tony-level rich, but he's definitely got a good deal of money. |
| 419 | * He's also Airborne-qualified, so mo' money. Though his parents were dead before he joined the Army. |
| 420 | * And I presume that Steve's parents were struggling to make ends meet. In other words, they're not quite poor, but they're certainly not rich enough to have large sums of money for inheritance. |
| 421 | ** One of the early scenes in the Captain America film mentions that both of his parents had already died.] |
| 422 | * Depends on his legal status. If he was declared legally dead at any point while he was frozen, he would have lost any assets he may have owned. Then again SHIELD would probably pay him far more than what the SSR could offer. |
| 423 | * Jossed. |
| 424 | |
| 425 | [[WMG: Natasha and Barton were released from active SHIELD duty after the end of the film]] |
| 426 | In order to protect them [[spoiler:from any repercussions following Loki's defeat in New York. Since certain powerful people, including Fury's bosses on the National Security Council and at least one senator don't trust the Avengers and want them to be held responsible for the damage New York City suffered, Fury had them released from active duty so he wouldn't be forced into a position where he-or more likely his bosses on the council-might be able to "punish them". This also explains why Fury apparently doesn't know where two of his best operatives have disappeared to at the end of the film, and why Natasha and Barton drove off after Thor takes Loki back to Asgard. He and Hill even speak of them with the rest of the Avengers at the end as though they're not going to be returning to the helicarrier anytime soon. It's PRETTY clear they're both rather a cut above SHIELD personnel to begin with and will probably be able to do more good as freelance agents than by being bound by SHIELD in the future. Barton may not actually WANT to be part of SHIELD because of the agents he killed while under Loki's control, though no one seems to hold it against him. This might also make things easier if a Hawkeye or Black Widow movie were to be greenlighted.]] |
| 427 | * Unlikely. The current word on Captain America 2 is that Cap will be working with SHIELD. Its unlikely that he would still be working with them, yet two actual SHIELD agents wouldn't. |
| 428 | * Seeing as how they are government agents and they caused almost no property damage (as compared to say... the Hulk) they probably wouldn't get into too much trouble. Not unless the Senator wants to hold the Police Officers and National Guard personnel who were present for the battle responsible as well. If he doesn't, then Fury can just say, "What makes Hawkeye and Widow any more responsible for the plasma damage to the city?" This would probably cover Captain America's ass too seeing as how he's Captain Goddamn America and if you try and hold him responsible for what alien invaders did then you hate freedom. It should also be noted that the Car that Black Widow and Hawkeye left in had a S.H.I.E.L.D insignia on the door. |
| 429 | |
| 430 | [[WMG: At least one of the Council Members was on the Avengers' side]] |
| 431 | When Loki is overwhelming New York from space, this member, let's call him/her M, knew that the Avengers needed some help, or else they'd be overwhelmed, and the biggest explosive he/she could think of was a nuke. M knew that the other members would not take well to the suggestion "Let's hand a weapon of mass destruction to this team of guys we hardly know, who already have superpowers", and so M suggested, or subtly manipulated another member into suggesting, to stem the tide by [[spoiler:nuking New York, as M's way of saying: "Hey Avengers, here's a nuke. Do whatever you want with it."]], and then took the fall with the rest of the council. So, the real hero of the story is an unnamed World Council member, who knew what needed to be done and made a HeroicSacrifice, politician style. |
| 432 | |
| 433 | [[WMG: The US government will turn to [[spoiler:studying Chitauri tech now that the tesseract has been returned to Asgard]] ]] |
| 434 | [[spoiler:Though the tesseract is out of humanity's reach, they still have the corpses of all these biomechanical alien monsters littering New York. Fury didn't appear opposed to the idea of the Phase Two weaponry either, so it's entirely possible that with the tesseract gone, the US will turn to trying to reverse-engineer new technology from the remains of Loki's Chitauri warriors in its place.]] |
| 435 | * Seemingly confirmed by the animated background for Item 47. [[spoiler:Which depicts the process of Shield converting the only active Chitauri weapon on the planet into a series of personal and vehicle mounted energy weapons in a manner similar to the destroyer cannon.]] |
| 436 | |
| 437 | [[WMG: You-Know-Who is not dead and ''will'' return.]] |
| 438 | Plain and simple. No Vision, no LMD; He's either in a coma, or simply being ordered to remain underground for an indeterminate amount of time. |
| 439 | * The powers that be would be incredibly remiss to ignore the shitstorm of massive proportions that has erupted from the whole affair and not do something to fix it. |
| 440 | * [[spoiler:It seems this is true. Clark Gregg is signed on for more films.]] |
| 441 | * Additional WMG: To tie the new Spider-Man film into this continuity, he'll appear as [[spoiler:the principal of Peter Parker's school]], just like he does on [[WesternAnimation/UltimateSpiderMan2012 Ultimate Spider-Man]]. Fwip fwip. |
| 442 | * Confirmed (the very above). He ''did'' die but was resurrected and is one of the main characters of ''Series/AgentsOfShield''. |
| 443 | |
| 444 | [[WMG: ComicBook/BlackWidow is going to get a spiffy new pair of laser bracelets in her next (Chronological) appearance.]] |
| 445 | They are going to be reverse engineered Chitauri laser muskets mounted onto her braclets to give her some more oomph in future films. It might not be in her movie seeing as how there has been talk of an origin prequel but maybe in something else. Like Iron Man 3 or the Avengers 2. |
| 446 | * Jossed. |
| 447 | |
| 448 | [[WMG: Loki's alien backers never intended to support his rule of Earth.]] |
| 449 | This explains why it was [[NoOntologicalInertia so easy to defeat the Chitauri army]] just by [[spoiler:bombing the small Chitauri base which was just outside the bridge from Earth]]. All [[spoiler:Thanos]] was interested in was the Tesseract. It's entirely possible that once Loki delivered it to him, the Chitauri army would be automatically shut down and Loki would be free to try to rule Earth on his own. After all, what's one primitive world to the [[spoiler: Mad Titan]]? |
| 450 | * Or they were planning to [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness kill him after they were done using him as an errand boy]]. It'd be a bit of a liability to keep alive a powerful and unstable former ally who has a perfectly good reason to not like you very much. |
| 451 | |
| 452 | [[WMG: Loki let himself be captured again in the end.]] |
| 453 | It looks like he chose to stay down when the Hulk smacked him down. But then the Hulk left....He could have at least turned invisible. But he had just failed [[spoiler:Thanos]]. The Other did say there was no place he could hide. Well, the safest place would be in an Asgard Prison. |
| 454 | * I think Loki not moving after the Hulk beat the tar out of him really had more to do with the fact that ''the Hulk just beat the tar out of him''. He also seemed surprised when he saw the team was behind him, so he probably thought that he had more time before he got there. |
| 455 | ** In the end he probably did surrender with that in mind, choosing the lesser of two evils. |
| 456 | |
| 457 | [[WMG: The Tesseract is [[Franchise/MassEffect Reaper technology.]]]] |
| 458 | Its teleportation effect, like that of the Bifrost Gate, is very similar to that of a mass relay. The bio-synthetic Chitauri are using their conquest of Earth as a smokescreen for the ''real'' reason they want the Tesseract: they are the Cinematic Universe's version of Collectors, and intend to open the way for the Reaper fleet. |
| 459 | * Additionally, Loki is indeed controlling people's minds through the technology given him, but not in the manner he suspects: everyone touched by the spear is Indoctrinated, and only following him because it coincides with the Reapers' plans (to paraphrase some lines in the film: "The Tesseract... ''showed'' me things; I have clarity now"). Also, note how their eyes turn electric blue, and briefly acquire glowing facial scars: they are in the initial stages of being transformed into a.) Husks, or b.) Reaper emissaries, such as Saren and [[spoiler: the Illusive Man]]. |
| 460 | ** This WMG certainly makes the "Space Magic!" meme funnier. |
| 461 | |
| 462 | [[WMG: The Stinger at the end of Avengers sets up the Deadpool movie.]] |
| 463 | I mean c'mon, some people do know that Deadpool and Death have a thing. And the only who stands between them is [[spoiler:Thanos]] |
| 464 | It could turn out that Deadpool was cursed with immortality, and we get to see Death on screen. |
| 465 | * Jossed. Deadpool is not a part of the [=MCU=]. |
| 466 | |
| 467 | [[WMG: The Tesseract originally belonged to [[spoiler:Thanos]]]] |
| 468 | That's why he knows about it and wants to back. Thousands of years ago, he and the forces of Asgard fought, the Asguardians regarding [[spoiler:Thanos]] as an upstart who thought himself a god. During the battle, [[spoiler:Thanos]] lost the Cube to Odin, who after keeping it for a time, left it on Earth or lost it in the battle with the frost giants. What's really dangerous is that [[spoiler:Thanos]] is the only one who knows the Cube's true power of RealityWarping. If he gets it back he could wish half the universe dead. The gemstone that he gives to Loki was an attempt to replicate the cube's power. |
| 469 | * Jossed. |
| 470 | |
| 471 | [[WMG: Deadpool exists in the same universe as Avengers.]] |
| 472 | If his movie will come out before any other, and if [[spoiler:Thanos]] will make an appearence. |
| 473 | * Jossed. |
| 474 | |
| 475 | [[WMG: The entire invasion was a KansasCityShuffle for Loki and [[spoiler:Thanos.]]]] |
| 476 | [[http://maskofreason.wordpress.com/2012/05/23/very-good-writing-why-loki-won-in-the-avengers/ The full theory is spelled out here,]] but the short version is basically this: while Loki may [[BlatantLies (or may not)]] have wanted control of the Earth as revenge against Thor, the whole thing was basically a means for [[spoiler:Thanos]] to get Loki back into Asgard under reasonable pretenses so that he could somehow deliver the Infinity Gauntlet. |
| 477 | * I had a similar thought. Considering how risky the invasion plan was to begin with (YMMV on that, but see the Headscratchers page for a long, long discussion of its flaws), Unless Loki [[VillainBall got dumber between movies]], he was probably aware all along that his plan could easily fail and even if it succeeded he'd just be a vassal. But directly due to Loki's attack in this movie, a confrontation between [[spoiler:Thanos]] and the Avengers is likely. If the Avengers win, then the force that traumatized Loki in unspecified ways between movies has been punished and there's a cosmic EvilPowerVacuum he can step into. If [[spoiler: Thanos]] wins, Earth is really, really doomed, so Loki would have RevengeByProxy on Thor for the events of [[{{Film/Thor}} Thor]]. Either way, Loki arguably winds up ''better off'' than if his invasion had won. |
| 478 | * I don't think this theory holds water at all... If Thanos and Loki merely wanted Thor to arrest Loki and take him to Asgard, why go through through such a large-case scenario to do that? It would been have enough for Loki to run some smaller scheme that would get Thor's attention (kill some random people, for example), then have a fake fight with Thor that ends with him thinking he has defeated Loki, so he can take Loki back to Asgard. Why would Loki and Thanos want to get S.H.I.EL.D. and other earthlings involved in the scheme? Even if they don't see humans as a risk, why would they want any outsiders to find out more about their plan than what is absolutely necessary? If they got only Thor involved, no one else would know anything about what's going on. Also, if Thanos knew the Chitauri would eventually be defeated, why would he risk alienating his allies by letting them be killed in masses? Why get the Chitauri involved in the first place, when the same end result could've been reached without them? |
| 479 | * Jossed. ''Ragnarok'' reveals that the Asgard gauntlet is fake. |
| 480 | |
| 481 | [[WMG: The Other is a Time Lord]] |
| 482 | This can't be a WMG page without saying that someone is a Time Lord and there's a character called The Other in Doctor Who. |
| 483 | * He's on his last regeneration so his appearance is unattractive (like Crispy Master). |
| 484 | * Jossed. He dies in ''Guardians of the Galaxy''. |
| 485 | |
| 486 | [[WMG: Coulson is still alive and now has an Arc Reactor in his chest.]] |
| 487 | Wouldn't that require that Tony be in on it pretty quickly? |
| 488 | * Confirmed and Jossed. Coulson got resurrected but he doesn’t have an Arc Reactor. |
| 489 | |
| 490 | [[WMG: Nick Fury was once known as Jules Winnfield]] |
| 491 | Who better to run a law-enforcement agency than a badass ex-gangster who has dedicated his life to protecting others? In the interim he shaved his head and lost an eye somehow. |
| 492 | * For his new identity he borrowed the name of a legendary WWII commando. |
| 493 | * This also suggests that the Tesseract was the shiny thing in the briefcase. |
| 494 | ** However, that was gold-colored, unlike the Tesseract. |
| 495 | |
| 496 | [[WMG: ''The Avengers'' was at least partially a deconstruction of ''ComicBook/{{Watchmen}}'', particularly [[Film/{{Watchmen}} the film version]].]] |
| 497 | Yes, a deconstruction of a deconstruction. Does that make it a reconstruction? I have no idea. But besides the issues of the theatrical posters being nigh-identical, there's also Loki's lip service to the idea of essentially frightening the world into peace by making all of humanity worship him (the film version of ''Watchmen'' ends with the world being terrified into peace out of fear from retribution from [[PhysicalGod Dr. Manhattan]]). He may have been intended as a dismantling of the more noble, NecessarilyEvil archetype presented by Ozymandias- the kind of person who'd think peace bought through fear is worthwhile very likely ''would'' be more like Loki than like Ozymandias, crazed and dangerous rather than analytical and basically willing to break his own moral code for what he sees as a genuine greater good. However, the ending also criticizes ''actually'' thinking like Ozymandias, which is what the Council does in their decision to nuke New York because it ''might'' stop the Chitauri (just like Ozymandias was willing to psychic-bomb New York in the original graphic novel and essentially nuke 15 major world cities in the film because it ''might have'' prevented WWIII). |
| 498 | * This is awesome. The parallels are definitely there, whether they're intentional or not. |
| 499 | |
| 500 | [WMG:With things suddenly taking a turn for the worse, Coulson was so dedicated to the cause and desperate to get the team to start working together that he went into his encounter with Loki ''knowing'' full well that [[spoiler:he wouldn't make it out.]]]] |
| 501 | |
| 502 | [[WMG:The real reason for Creator/KatDennings' [[http://perezhilton.com/2012-06-21-kat-dennings-isnt-allowed-to-talk-about-thor-2 silence]] over whether or not she's in the Film/{{Thor}} sequel?]] |
| 503 | She's been recast - as Wasp. |
| 504 | * {{Jossed}}. She reprises her role from the first ''Thor'' movie in ''Thor: The Dark World''. |
| 505 | |
| 506 | [[WMG:Film/{{The Avengers|2012}} takes place in the same universe as ''Series/SexAndTheCity'']] |
| 507 | Before Phil Coulson was a SHIELD agent he worked at a Footlocker and dated Miranda Hobbs. That incident (where he lied about being a doctor to impress her) made him realise how pathetic his life was, so he turned things around. Unfortunately this probably means that every ''Series/SexAndTheCity'' character was killed by aliens. However, this is a worthy sacrifice in the name of synchronicity. |
| 508 | |
| 509 | [[WMG: Cap likes Batman]] |
| 510 | Hear me out on this one. Before he became Captain America, Steve was a 94 pound artist. He grew up in the 30's, and was very sickly all the time. What do you do in the 30's when you can't go outside? Read. What do you read when you're a teenage boy? (Besides porn) Comic books. And in 1939, in Detective comics issue #27, Batman came out. It's not really too much of a stretch to say that he read Batman from time to time. |
| 511 | |
| 512 | And if anyone ever makes a Batman reference, he'll stand up and go, "I understood that!" like he did with the Wizard of Oz reference. |
| 513 | * I would certainly be amused by a scene where Cap watches Batman and Robin and is utterly confused by the whole thing. |
| 514 | * Given Steve's personality, he probably would have liked Dick Tracy from the newspaper comics more. Tracy worked with the authorities a ''lot'' more than pre-Silver Age Batman did. |
| 515 | |
| 516 | [[WMG: Loki was Mind Raped by the Other/the Chitauri/[[spoiler:Thanos]]]] |
| 517 | Loki tells Thor he remembers being "thrown" into the Abyss, but Thor was there, he let himself fall. Why lie about it to someone who already knew the truth unless he really believed it? We know the Other already has a powerful link to Loki's mind and he makes threats about how there's no place Loki can hide; altering his memories seems well within their power, not to mention that the greatest threat against ''any'' possible outcome of The Other's plan would be if Loki just told Thor, "I'm being coerced and I need help", and making ''absolutely'' sure that Loki feels completely isolated is the best way to keep that from happening. |
| 518 | |
| 519 | [[WMG: "The Other" is Annihilus.]] |
| 520 | Just what it says: the Other will be revealed to be Annihilus. |
| 521 | * Annihilus would never serve as a lackey to Thanos, as The Other seems to do in the movie. He's the proud ruler of an entire universe, not a servant to anyone. |
| 522 | |
| 523 | [[WMG: Every time he Hulks out, Banner comes back looking slightly different]] |
| 524 | It's not enough to be noticeable in a single movie, but in the years that passed between ''The Incredible Hulk'' and ''The Avengers'' the effects built up and changed him from looking like Edward Norton to looking like Mark Ruffalo. |
| 525 | * In addition, Banner remarks that he is always angry before turning into Hulk intentionally. He is shown meditating throughout the 2008 film trying to calm it, but he could've also been trying to find a compromise between himself and the Hulk personality. Before, he and the Hulk looked completely different, but as he drew closer to reaching common ground with it, he and the Hulk would keep looking similar to each other after each transformation. Perhaps eventually this will lead to the Professor Hulk persona at the end of the film saga. |
| 526 | ** Jossed, but he does become Professor Hulk. |
| 527 | |
| 528 | [[WMG: Joss Whedon's favorite Doctor Who episode is "Last of the Time Lords"]] |
| 529 | Just think, We have an alien/godlike hero (Thor),who grew up with the bad guy (Loki) and the bad guy opens up a portal above a city releasing aliens (the last humans from Utopia) and the military (S.H.I.E.L.D.) has an airship. Coincidence? I think not! |
| 530 | |
| 531 | [[WMG: [[Film/TheBourneSeries The Bourne Legacy]] is actually the Hawkeye movie.]] |
| 532 | Mofo killed a Predator drone with a ''rifle.'' Hi, Hawkeye! |
| 533 | |
| 534 | [[WMG: The Helicarrier was designed by Tony and/or Howard Stark and is powered by one or more of the giant arc reactors like the one in the Stark Industries building in the first Iron Man film.]] |
| 535 | Howard was showing off a prototype flying car in the Captain America movie. |
| 536 | |
| 537 | [[WMG: Loki was working with Fury all along.]] |
| 538 | The plan was for Loki to find a force that was considerable, but something the Avengers were capable of handling. Thus labeling Earth as a danger to possible invaders looking for a "higher form of war." For an extra bonus, the Tesseract was removed from Earth to lessen future attacks. As for Loki, he played the part of the cackling villain to attract the attention of the Avengers - in exchange for a clear path back to Asgard. |
| 539 | |
| 540 | Both Loki and Fury are more than willing to get blood on their hands for the greater good. Neither of them are "good guys" in the traditional sense. ("A liar and killer, in the service of liars and killers.") Not by any means. But they're both the types to allow hundreds or even thousands of deaths to save billions in exchange. |
| 541 | |
| 542 | It explains why the brainwashing wasn't entirely complete and Fury didn't die in the first scene. Where the enemies of S.H.I.E.L.D. managed to get the required tech and manpower together in a day or less. Where said manpower went at the end of it all. Why Loki didn't simply teleport out of his cage. Why Loki was so surprised that Thor showed up - S.H.I.E.L.D. didn't expect him to, as Fury said. Why Loki would be so stupid as to hand over the Tessaract in exchange for one measly planet, especially after seeing so many other worlds. And why he barely fought at the end, and sent out his "army" in small, easier to handle, batches. |
| 543 | |
| 544 | It would be a perfect partnership for two ChaoticNeutral antiheroes. Loki plays on each Avenger's weakness, and Fury pushes on their strengths. Yes, a lot of people die, but that's better than the alternative, isn't it? |
| 545 | * Well it's already been pointed out on this page that there's a lot of parallels between the movie and Watchmen ... |
| 546 | ** "Hulk smash puny god thirty-five minutes ago." |
| 547 | * Jossed. |
| 548 | |
| 549 | [[WMG: Not quite the same thing as above but similar: Loki brought the Chitauri to Earth because he figured they might get annihilated]] |
| 550 | He didn't seem to enjoy working for The Other and was probably was hedging his bets: Either the Chitauri win and he becomes ruler of Earth and tortures Jane to spite Thor, or SHIELD and the Avengers win and -- most importantly -- Thor takes him back to Asgard '''alive''' to plot another day safely away from The Other (if Thor couldn't make it to Earth he'd probably be locked up anyway (likely with special interaction rules [[Film/TheSilenceOfTheLambs like his dad]]) since he's too tough to kill, people might be opposed to try nuking him, human technology might not be advanced enough to, say, [[HurlItIntoTheSun throw him into the sun]], and they probably wouldn't want to risk him entering another SwirlyEnergyThingy). |
| 551 | |
| 552 | [[WMG: Again, similar to the above: Loki planned the entire invasion to fail in an attempt to stop [[spoiler:Thanos]] on his own.]] |
| 553 | A lot of people have said that Loki didn't seem to be as ahead of the game as he was in the first Thor film (and then later in Thor 2). But what if he planned it that way? Tony made some good points to Loki about the invasion which he really should have known. What if he had meant for it to fail? Theory: When he first met [[spoiler:Thanos]], he realized [[spoiler: how mad the Titan truly was]] so decided to work against him, figuring that maybe he might be able to get something out of it in the long run and also preventing the universe from getting destroyed (there'd be nothing left for him to rule, otherwise). So he went along with [[spoiler:Thanos']] plan, acted more pathetic than usual in order for the plan to fail, and in the end, the Tesseract was kept out of [[spoiler:Thanos']] reach (along with the staff, if that's really [[spoiler:the Mind Stone]]). Getting captured and taken back to Asgard was just an added bonus, and he was able to work things out for himself from there. It's also why [[spoiler:he sent the Aether to the Collector in Thor 2; to keep that out of Thanos' reach, too]]. |
| 554 | * [[spoiler:As a bonus, the Collector ''will'' try to collect the entire set (that’s in his name!): the Asgardians only have to watch Taneleer to learn where the other Stones are, instead of diverting their own precious resources from the reconstruction.]] |
| 555 | |
| 556 | [[WMG: Cap's shield was made from a molten down enchanted Asgardian weapon, mixed with vibranium]] |
| 557 | As such, it has a number of the same properties seen in Mjolnir, albeit to a lesser degree. Most notably, the effects from throwing it are amplified, as it moves faster and more accurately than seems possible. Second, it has a propensity for returning to its users' hand if the user wills it. Unlike Mjolnir, it doesn't outright fly through the air when summoned, but it still allows some of the more impossible throws where the shield somehow returns to caps' hand. This would also explain why cap's shield seems to make a noise sometimes, similar to Mjolnir. |
| 558 | * You can even expand this to say that this is the [[AppliedPhlebotinum reason cap's shield can be moved around]] despite vibranium absorbing all incoming force. [[AWizardDidIt It is quite literally magic]]. |
| 559 | * It would also explain why only Captain America can wield it, as the shield has judged only him to be worthy. |
| 560 | ** Bucky briefly wielded it during the fight on the train, so apparently he was worthy too. It'd make sense, considering what kind of person he is, and his relationship with Steve. [[spoiler: That said, Johann Schmidt briefly uses the shield against Steve during their final fight, so it definitely isn't nearly as rigid about it as Mjolnir is.]] |
| 561 | * This would also explain why the shield reacts inconsistently to different forces. Sometimes it absorbs things, sometimes it disperses things, sometimes it reflects things. It depends on what it thinks makes the most sense. |
| 562 | * Of course, this does beg the question of how Howard Stark actually managed to get an Asgardian weapon ''to'' melt. If it was anything like Mjolnir, shouldn't it be all but impervious to damage? |
| 563 | |
| 564 | [[WMG: Hawkeye is really, really ''really'' farsighted.]] |
| 565 | That's why he like to sit up in the rafters, because that's the only way he can see things clearly and, correspondingly, how he's able to fire his bow so accurately from really far away. The rest of the time he pays attention with his other senses to effectively fake good eyesight. |
| 566 | |
| 567 | [[WMG: Hawkeye was not totally under the control of Loki.]] |
| 568 | He was mostly under his control, but he was still capable of controlling himself enough not to kill his formerly fellow SHIELD agents. He knew they were wearing body armor. If he wanted to kill them, he would have aimed for their heads. It is Hawkeye, he doesn't miss unless he wants to. |
| 569 | |
| 570 | [[WMG: Loki was confronted by one of the [[Franchise/CthulhuMythos Outer Gods]] in the Abyss.]] |
| 571 | And [[GoMadFromTheRevelation went mad with the revelation]] somewhere along the line. However, he's a God, so maybe instead of just going outright loony, when he was shown the true nature of reality, he gained a twisted, warped look at the universe, and what was left of his unhinged his mind went into shambles. His trying to bring free will to an end, and dominate all of humanity, is his idea of freeing them from this twisted reality, since without free will, they can't see what he saw. Take your guess over which Outer God, but I'm going to guess either Daoloth, since his form might have shattered Loki's mind, or Azathoth, since he's the embodiment of Chaos, and it would make sense if Loki was so horrified and driven mad that he believed free will WAS chaos, and he must destroy it. What do you guys think? |
| 572 | |
| 573 | [[WMG: Thanos' mastery of Death will allow him to resurrect the villains that have died throughout the course of the series.]] |
| 574 | He will bring back phantoms of the Red Skull (assuming he died), the Iron Monger, [[spoiler:Aldrich Killian]], Whiplash, and whoever the hell else he wants to to help take out the Avengers. |
| 575 | * Jossed. |
| 576 | |
| 577 | [[WMG: Loki is a DeathSeeker in ''The Avengers''.]] |
| 578 | It's very simple. Loki tried to commit suicide at the end of "Thor". While he's still carrying on his plan in ''The Avengers'', almost every single time he deals with someone in a position to kill him, he goes all out to be a JerkAss. He goes on fighting Cap even with the Quinjet ready to cut him in half with their chain gun. He pushes Thor's buttons all through their initial chat. He mouths off to Nick Fury, who's just indicated that he could easily kill Loki. He tries to terrorize the Black Widow. He nails Coulson right in front of Thor and then acts all swaggery about it, just to irritate Thor. He all but invites Tony to fight him at Stark Tower. He stabs Thor in response to an offer of "let's work together", and when Thor doesn't kill him, he throws himself off the building. He rides around on a Chitauri chariot, which is just perfect for getting shot down. And then, when faced with the Hulk, tries to piss him off and doesn't even bother to defend himself. As one last act of assholery, with Barton's probably explosive arrow pointed right in his face, he makes a smart remark about having a drink. He is trying to commit SuicideByCop throughout the entire movie. |
| 579 | * I Like this theory, except I wouldn't go so far as to say he was trying to commit SuicideByCop, as he clearly still wants to win throughout the whole film. I don't think it's so much he wanted to die, he just didn't care if he did. |
| 580 | |
| 581 | [[WMG: Loki is/was TheStarscream.]] |
| 582 | Loki isn't a loyal god. |
| 583 | |
| 584 | [[WMG: The Chitauri invasion would not have gotten far.]] |
| 585 | Their weapons are flashy, but not very [[AwesomeButImpractical practical]]. The plasma beams could do a fair amount of damage, although it does seem like a human being could survive a direct hit (although the human taking said hit was Captain America). However, their blasts have a LONG travel time, which would give them some major problems in anything but Urban combat. The flying bike things are very agile (only Iron man could out fly them) but their only offensive weapons are two of the blasters at the front of the bike, plus a rifleman chained to the back. Essentially, they have the same weapon arrangements as biplanes. It would be almost impossible for one to take out, say a modern jet in a dogfight (let alone able to fend off over the horizon heat seeking missiles). |
| 586 | * They don't even seem to bother with armor. Over the course of the battle, the foot soldiers are killed very easily by handguns, a ''bow'', and a '''fist''' (not just the big green one either). The only things that were hard to take down, the space whales, could only really attack things either by dropping off troops, or ramming into things. They do have some notable weak spots, such as their unarmored faces. |
| 587 | * They do not act like military force, but a raging group of barbarians on a hunt. Instead of seeking out high priority targets, the police, military, S.H.E.I.L.D., or the Avengers, they fly around, spreading random destruction and terror. We see them gather up large groups of civilians, just so they can chuck a bomb into the group. They resort to melee weapons at almost hilarious regularity. Since we know the Other doubts humanity could do anything but burn in the face of his army, we can bet he just told them "prepare for the slaughter." |
| 588 | * The portal is the ultimate choke point. It doesn't matter how many more they have on the other side, the invasion force is limited to how many troops you can get through a hole about the size of large city block. Even if they could secure the city, that portal is a logistical nightmare. |
| 589 | * They are starting their invasion in a nation that spends more on it's military than the next ten nations combined. By the time the battle of New York was over, only some ground troops and Humvees had managed to help out (most likely because S.H.I.E.L.D. ordered that the city be nuked and told the US army to stay clear). Yet, an entire invasion force was stopped in it's tracks by three super powered beings and two completely normal (although highly exceptional) agents. If that army faced off against an actual military force, the aliens would of been the ones to court death. |
| 590 | ** Well (and this is extreme [=WMGing=]) maybe those troops they sent to New York were just shock troops, meant to inspire terror before the ''real'' Chitauri troops came in to take over. It's like what the US did in Iraq; a shock-and-awe campaign followed by the real deal. Maybe they wanted to test our response time (an hour before the National Guard can deploy?) Of course, the real invasion never came because Iron Man sent that missile straight into the fleet that would've launched it. |
| 591 | |
| 592 | [[WMG: The Chitauri were DeadAllAlong]] |
| 593 | They were an undead army, made up of [[spoiler:Thanos' victims]]. Given that he's really into death and doesn't seem to be all that interested in subjugating anyone if he can just go ahead and kill them, using cybernetic implants/exoskeletons to create an army of semi-intelligent fighting corpses seems both practical and economical. When the EMP shorted them out, it didn't change anything, it just ruined their ability to keep moving. |
| 594 | |
| 595 | [[WMG: Stark can now lift Mjolnir]] |
| 596 | Thor became worthy enough to lift Mjolnir after he showed he was willing to sacrifice his life to save others. [[spoiler:Stark does the same thing when he takes the nuke through the portal]]. |
| 597 | * ''Age of Ultron’' says thee nay. |
| 598 | |
| 599 | [[WMG: That SHIELD agent who was playing Galaga was Wendell Vaughn]] |
| 600 | Who dreams of someday saving the Earth, and may yet get his chance. |
| 601 | |
| 602 | [[WMG: The Waitress that was saved is actually Creator/AshleyJohnson]] |
| 603 | Picture it: MCU's version of Ashley Johnson was struggling in New York. Sure, she had a few big roles like [[WesternAnimation/TeenTitans2003 Terra]], but a string of bad gigs in New York led the struggling actress with a job as a waitress, who happened to be working at a restaurant on 4 May 2012. Having experienced the bravery of Captain America in his fight against the invaders, she gains newfound confidence in life and moves back to California, where she participates in a TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons campaign that her friend [[Creator/MatthewMercer Matt]] was DMing for her friend [[Creator/LiamObrien Liam's]] birthday... |
| 604 | |
| 605 | Basically what I'm saying is that WebVideo/CriticalRole exists as a show in the MCU. And, given Ashley's connections (that totally exist for the purposes of this WMG [[VerbalTic proper]]) with the good Captain, chances are that during one episode, Steve Rogers rolled a character as a guest party member. Maybe a Paladin? |
| 606 | * Jossed. The character's name is Beth. |
| 607 | |
| 608 | [[WMG: Budapest was where Clint recruited Natasha to SHIELD]] |
| 609 | Natasha's dialogue with Loki implies that Clint had a hand in bringing her on board with SHIELD, having opted to recruit her rather than kill her. Obviously, the people she betrayed wouldn't be very happy about that, so they sent agents to kill her and Clint helped her fight them off. This idea has support from ''Film/CaptainAmericaTheWinterSoldier'', where Pierce mentions her actions in Budapest as something she might not want the public to know, implying she did something horrible there and SHIELD buried it (possibly in return for her cooperation). This would cast her comment about it in a new light: She's thinking of Budapest because fighting side by side with Clint again reminds her of the old days. |
| 610 | * [[spoiler:Confirmed by the ''[[Film/BlackWidow2021 Black Widow]]'' movie.]] |
| 611 | |
| 612 | [[WMG: The Galaga SHIELD agent is a HYDRA mole.]] |
| 613 | Think about it. A major SHIELD affiliated facility has just been suddenly and violently compromised by an extraterrestrial terrorist, resulting in the utter destruction of said facility. Several SHIELD agents have gone missing, perhaps compromised. The extraterrestrial terrorist has been captured and secured aboard the SHIELD Helicarrier, but as the circumstances leading to his "surrender" are hinky at best, said terrorist's continued confinement is less than ironclad. Adding to that, a group of ultra-powerful, but volatile, rebellious vigilantes are now aboard that same Helicarrier, having a heated argument in the immediate vicinity of a powerful alien weapon with a demonstrated ability to corrupt minds. A "dedicated" SHIELD agent thinks that NOW is a good time to play a video game whose popularity peaked 30 years ago? Such an egregious act of protocol can only signify that said agent's loyalties are not where they should lie. He's HYDRA, all day. |
| 614 | |
| 615 | [[WMG: Ruffalo's appearance is the result of The Hulk physically taking over Norton's Hulk.]] |
| 616 | He's kind of the in-between of Norton's narrow features and The Hulk's beefcake face. |
| 617 | |
| 618 | [[WMG: The hulk smashing Loki is what snapped his mind back to "normal".]] |
| 619 | Since hitting Hawkeye and Selvig in the head snapped them back to sanity, and if the theory of Loki being controlled by the scepter is correct… well… the Hulk smashing him most ''definitely'' would have knocked some sense into him if that is the case. |
| 620 | |
| 621 | [[WMG: Phil Coulson is part Asgardian, a distant cousin of Thor.]] |
| 622 | Coulson > Culson. - Cul is Odin's brother, thus Phil Coulsons name follows the same naming schema as Thor Odinson. A name inherited from a distant asgardian ancestor. |
| 623 | |
| 624 | [[WMG: Alexander Pierce planned to nuke New York anyway.]] |
| 625 | Director Pierce, secretly in Hydra's pocket, saw the Avengers as an obstacle to Hydra's plans and convinced the Council that the nuclear option was their only choice to protect the world. He wanted to use the convenient Chitauri invasion to eliminate both threats, and use the destruction of New York to rattle the world enough to make it easier for Hydra to wrest control from the world's governments. When Iron Man was able to dispose of the nuke into Chitauri space, Pierce moved forward with [[Film/CaptainAmericaTheWinterSoldier Project: Insight.]] |
| 626 | |
| 627 | [[WMG: Loki may have been influenced by the scepter, but he wasn't being controlled.]] |
| 628 | The Scepter exacerbated his resentment and superiority complex, and occasionally put thoughts in his head-but [[MoreThanMindControl it never forced him do anything]], or even took control of him. He ''was'' being influenced, and he might not have chosen to do those things if he wasn't under its thrall-but everything he did was still technically of his own free will. |
| 629 | |
| 630 | [[/folder]] |
| 631 |
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