Line #16 BrokenBase/StarVsTheForcesOfEvil


1	%% Before adding something to this page, make sure it fits ALL of the requirements:
2	%% It is divisive: nearly every fan has a strong opinion on the subject. It's not two vocal minorities arguing.
3	%% It has at least two factions involved. People who don't really care don't count as a faction.
4	%% It is a vicious conflict: bringing up the topic will cause a big debate to happen.
5	%% It is sustained: a true Broken Base is still discussed long after the start of the debate. The minimum requirement is a conflict that lasts more than six months.
6	!!''WesternAnimation/StarVsTheForcesOfEvil''
7	BrokenBase in this series.
8	-----
9	[[foldercontrol]]
10
11	[[folder:General]]
12	* Season 3, post-Battle of Mewni, is hugely contested among the fandom, what with half of the fans calling it a downgrade from the first 2 seasons and the beginning of the SeasonalRot, and the other half calling it the best Season of the show or at least at the level of Season 2, due to the things that are discussed in this page. However, the only thing fans tend to agree about this season is that the one which follows it, Season 4, is much worse.
13	* Ludo [[HijackedByGanon being ousted from the spot of main villain by Toffee]] in Season 2. Obviously, fans of Toffee were pleased he was back and affirming himself as the overall BigBad, viewing him as more worthy of the role in the show's move towards more serious plotlines. But others felt that it rendered Ludo's [[TookALevelInBadass slow climb to an actual threat]] null and void, and painted him as existing solely to be [[HarmlessVillain a joke villain that does nothing]] but get dumped on by heroes and other villains alike. This was somewhat mitigated by Ludo being placed back in control of himself in order to pull off his actual slow-building invasion plan in ''The Battle for Mewni'', and mitigated even further at the end of said movie when [[spoiler:Ludo took revenge for the hijacking by being the one to actually ''kill'' Toffee.]]
14	* The CerebusSyndrome that the show began undergoing in Season 2. Some fans accepted it with open arms and saw the show's greater emphasis on plot and character development as a welcome addition. Others felt the show fumbled in trying to deliver a more intense, continuity heavy story, seeing it as something completely unnecessary, or even damaging, for what was initially just a fun comedy. This only got worse post-"Battle for Mewni", thanks to all the other issues listed on this page, leading to some fans believing that the series would have been better off ending with the multi-part special.
15	* While a lot of fans liked the early reveal that the Mewmans were the invaders, and the monsters were the victims of colonialism, some were divided on the lengths the show had gone with it in the following seasons, feeling it became {{Anvilicious}} in its messaging as time went on.
16	* The decision to leave Earth as the main setting in favor of Mewni. Some were fine with it, feeling Earth had plenty of time in the spotlight for the first two seasons and that Mewni had a large amount of untapped potential, ranging from the Butterfly family history to the ongoing racial tensions between Mewmans and Monsters. Others, however, felt it shafted the Earth cast outside Marco and [[AscendedExtra Janna]], and left potential plot threads [[LeftHanging hanging open]]. The latter group also had members who noted that the separation between Earth and Mewni was completely arbitrary anyway, given that dimensional scissors (which both Star and Marco had easy access to) make travel between different worlds easier than walking across the street, meaning that an increased focus on Mewni never required abandoning Earth at all.
17	[[/folder]]
18
19	[[folder:Base-Breaking Characters]]
20	* Tom. While a lot of fans agree that he is a good character, the divide lies in whether or not one should judge him for manipulating Star. Half the fanbase points out that Tom was a terrible boyfriend to Star, with DomesticAbuse implied, and keeps trying to manipulate her. The other half points out that he's actively trying to change himself and manage his temper; in "Mr. Candle Cares", he finally got the message that forcing Star to be with him wouldn't work, and that for better or for worse Marco's looking out for Star as a friend and thus will protect her. However, he became even more of a base-breaker when [[spoiler: he and Star got back together again]] in Season 3. The showrunners seemed to understand by this point that having Star date an ex abuser was a poor choice, and tried to add details of their breakup to paint Tom in a more sympathetic light. These attempts were often sloppy however, and often just made Star seem like the more toxic half of the relationship instead. Added to that, a number of fans feel he became a wasted presence as a result, considering a lot of episodes in that season have him do nothing but passively react to most situations. Season 4 has him as a more active and enjoyable character, but that mixed with the show's romance subplot had some fans lament that regardless of everything, [[spoiler:he's been forced into the role of ShipperOnDeck for his girlfriend and his best friend]].
21	* Despite his popularity as a [[VileVillainSaccharineShow competent, serious and effective villain]], there are a handful of people who don't like Toffee. Some believe he's too serious and out of place for a show like ''Star vs.'', and/or consider him boring. Fans on both sides tend to agree that [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter his full potential went unrealized]], however. Despite the fact that he [[spoiler:died in the otherwise superb ''The Battle for Mewni'' arc, most of his motivations for what he did were unclear in the show itself beyond the most basic level of {{revenge}}.]] Not helping matters was WordOfGod claiming he was [[WellIntentionedExtremist a morally complex character]] who [[VillainHasAPoint had a valid point in viewing magic as something to be destroyed]]. Something ''[[InformedAttribute not clearly expressed any time he was on-screen]]'', only vaguely implied with a situation he was in during a ''flashback''. At the same time, some fans were attracted to Toffee ''because'' of how mysterious he was, and feel like answering everything would lessen him. The fact that Toffee did come to have parts of his backstory explained in ''Literature/TheMagicBookOfSpells'' ([[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot though only by small mentions]]) didn't help matters, with debates refueling again over why such information never made it into the show proper; and even then, major things such as how he gained so much knowledge about magic and the Butterfly lineage, let alone any real backstory of his past, remained a mystery.
22	* Jackie-Lynn Thomas became one big time after she and Marco finally [[RelationshipUpgrade became]] an OfficialCouple, which earned her [[DieForOurShip quite a lot of backlash]] from [[FanPreferredCouple Starco]] shippers. Much of this does come down to that, but it also boils down to whether you find her personality compelling or boring. Season 3 made this worse, as her sole appearance that season had her break up with Marco. Fans who liked her hated that she was written out before her character could be properly fleshed out to be more than "[[MellowFellow laidback]] but [[{{Adorkable}} secretly goofy]] skater girl", all so the Starco pairing could happen guilt-free. Meanwhile, her haters liked it for the exact same reason. [[spoiler:And Starco ''still'' wouldn't happen until the show's penultimate episodes in the following season, as Star had rekindled her relationship with Tom by this point]].
23	* Star herself was arguably this since the beginning, but she cemented this status starting at the end of Season 2. While she still remains very popular in the fandom and her fans love her for being a brave, plucky, determined, and energetic female protagonist, some others find her to be a bratty, selfish, annoying, and irresponsible protagonist who never learns her lessons (or forgets them almost instantly) and they find her a very bad daughter to her mother, especially in "Face the Music" and "Starcrushed". The series finale [[spoiler:in which Star destroys magic itself, commits a multidimensional genocide to save a portion of her country from Mina's monster genocide, and only seems concerned with the fact that doing so will separate her from her boyfriend]] had Team "Selfish Star" double down on this stance '''hard''', with many comparing her actions in that final episode to that of [[spoiler:Thanos in ''Film/AvengersInfinityWar'']].
24	** Interestingly enough, this went in the opposite direction in Season 3, where she's less impulsive, more reasonable, and more willing to be there for others. The base is split in three camps: those who found her annoying but find this new version to be worse because it's boring, those who were open to the change but thought it wasn't handled well, and those who think this was a natural progression of her character. And this third camp is ''also'' split, with the events of Season 4 having some view Star as having gone back to exhibiting her old character flaws.
25	** Her behavior towards Marco in Season 3 was another source of controversy. Some think that she was acting needlessly nasty and cruel toward him; others, on the other hand, think that she was acting reasonable, because she had been attempting to move past her crush of him and Marco burst into her life without warning, when she had reordered her priorities now that she returned to Mewni and faced Toffee.
26	* On that note, Marco in Season 3 also gained many detractors due to how badly he handled everything following ''The Battle for Mewni'' by not admitting to Star that he had feelings for her too when he had the chance, obsessing over Star and Mewni while ignoring everyone and everything on Earth, leading to Jackie breaking up with him, then being generally useless as Star's squire when he returned to Mewni. Some believe Marco had TookALevelInJerkass or was constantly grabbing the JerkassBall,[[note]]His frustration at not really being a knight, his feud with the other squires, and him not telling Hekapoo about Star causing the portals just so he can keep working with her.[[/note]] and that his boredom with Earth came out of left field. Others believe Marco's characterization was a natural progression of the insecurities he's always displayed, and his need to prove himself was blinding him to the consequences. Many in the latter group felt that it wasn't Marco who grabbed the JerkassBall at all, but that the Mewni characters had a firm hold on it.[[note]] Marco had every reason to expect to be made a knight seeing as King River specifically promised to do so, and the fact that he gave Marco his meat blanket and pretended it was a cape and somehow expected that Marco would never come back is inexplicably stupid even for [[TheDitz River]].[[/note]] The other squires acting as if Marco didn't earn his position was pretty dubious seeing as, unlike Marco, who at least tries helping out, they were all missing in action during the fight against Ludo and Toffee.
27	* Janna was at first an EnsembleDarkhorse even among the show's writing staff but became one of these by Season 4. Being a shamelessly strange, laidback trickster who constantly gets away with her pranks made her fun and intriguing at first, especially when it seems there was an underlying crush on Marco. But it never really evolved beyond that and her frequent inclusion in Season 4 (by which time the story has moved away from Earth) made little to no sense, so many fans either still enjoyed her or felt she was being needlessly overexposed and that her trolling antics had gotten stale, especially to a season that was much more story driven, with no in-between.
28	* Queen Moon became one as Season 3 progressed, with the final episodes of Season 4 only adding fuel to the fire. Due in part to how controlling she was of Star, there are many complaints that she was a terrible queen who later comes to mis-blame Eclipsa for the problems she's faced in her life: being too blinded by prejudice against monsters, too stubborn to see how misguided it was, neglecting their problems, denying there being a problem like it's below her pay grade when Star calls her out on it, etc. On the other hand, some fans find her behavior understandable, as her DarkAndTroubledPast gives her a legitimate FreudianExcuse to distrust monsters (her mother was assassinated by Toffee in the midst of signing a peace treaty), and Moon can reasonably blame Eclipsa for some of the recent struggles she's had to deal with, even if much of it was accidental or unintended on the Queen of Darkness's part.
29	* King River is either an annoying, TooDumbToLive father and king with wasted potential, or a genuinely funny character with plenty of moments to shine. He got more love however as of Season 4, particularly with [[spoiler: his efforts on rescuing Globgor at the same time Moon betrayed Eclipsa and Star]], leading to some viewers to consider him [[spoiler: much better as a parent or as a person that Moon. [[DamnedByFaintPraise Although whether that makes him a good parent or not is up to debate]]. ]]
30	* Glossaryck is this ''in spades''. He's either a funny character who has a strangely compelling way of giving wisdom and helping others, or an annoying troll who's too unlikable due to how he almost ''never'' explains anything directly, and just expects others to follow what he says without being clear, all intentionally. His entry under UnintentionallyUnsympathetic don't help out.
31	* [[spoiler:Miss Heinous, aka Meteora Butterfly, is in a ''really'' weird position. During her times as Miss Heinous, she was either a compelling villain who brought up interesting points on individuality, or an annoying strawman who tried and failed to be serious. After "Monster Bash", where she finds out that she's Eclipsa's daughter Meteora, things went in a different direction. Her much more monstrous personality, both figuratively and later on literally, was either understandable given that she was the rightful heir to the throne, or she's just an overgrown child throwing a temper tantrum, and was little more than a one note bad guy.]] It's safe to say that there's no middle ground for her character.
32	** Her fate from the season 3 finale onward is also divisive. [[spoiler: Eclipsa's spell, which was meant to kill her, turns her into a baby. The base is split into two camps. One side finds this an acceptable compromise since she'll at least be around people who care for her to help reel her in due to her mental health issues. The other side thinks she should have been punished in some way due to finding her actions too malicious to the point of finding her completely irredeemable (with some even saying that Meteora should have died instead of turn into a baby).]]
33	* Mina Loveberry is a particularly divisive character, mainly from those who find her cuckoo crazy behavior to be endearing and relatable, or annoying and in your face. [[spoiler: Her being the main villain in season 4 is also divisive. There are those who think it's well deserved considering her backstory, or those who think she's too much of a joke to be seen as a legitimate threat, and feel someone like Toffee or Seth should've been used.]]
34	** [[spoiler: Some were annoyed that, other than losing her magic powers, Mina was a KarmaHoudini, simply walking off scot free, neither suffering banishment or even imprisonment, leaving with Manfred, despite committing a near genocide on the monsters. Other fans think it makes sense feeling her actual condition (with her losing her powers and being disowned by Solaria) makes for a FateWorseThatDeath. There's also some viewers who felt that Mina was a victim of circumstances as much as some of the other soldiers were, so killing her was pointless.]]
35	* Rhombulus is an odd example. He was something of an EnsembleDarkHorse back in Season 2 and parts of Season 3 thanks to being the TokenGoodTeammate of the Magic High Commission and his heartwarming bond with Star in his debut episode, but then Season 4 made him TookALevelInJerkass and turned him into a HateSink. This splitted the fanbase in three sections: Those who never cared about him and felt this change turned him into a compelling LoveToHate figure, those who loved him in previous seasons and felt this change ruined the character just for the sake of [[spoiler: turning fan-favorite Hekapoo in the TokenGoodTeammate and averting the destruction of magic of killing too many sympathetic characters]], and those who didn't mind the change but disliked Rhombulus anyway for finding him to be a forced StrawCharacter that existed to keep pushing the {{Anvilicious}} tone of the series.
36	* Chloe. Some like her because she means Jackie was able to move on after she and Marco broke up and for being a minor but solid example of lesbian representation or hate her [[SatelliteLoveInterest for only existing]] to say that Jarco is without a doubt dead.
37	[[/folder]]
38
39	[[folder:Episodes]]
40	* Far from the most heated example but "Star on Wheels" is often considered one of the worst or one of the best non-plot relevant episodes of the series. Those who like it, love the over the top humor and creativity and considered one of the funniest episodes of the series while other fans hate it for Star taking the IdiotBall to a ridiculous extent.
41	* "Toffee", the final episode of ''The Battle for Mewni'' story arc. For all the hype about Star facing off against the titular BigBad, [[spoiler: he dies rather quickly after getting resurrected, with Star blasting him while in her SuperMode and Ludo crushing the last remaining bits of him under a tower]]. Many fans were understandably disappointed how such a villain was wasted, with some going so far to claim he suffered from a last second bout of VillainDecay. Meanwhile other fans found the episode to be one of the best, if not ''the'' best episode of the series for various reasons, not limited to: [[spoiler:Ludo's character arc that began in "Ludo in the Wild" coming to a satisfying conclusion, Toffee maintaining a menacing presence throughout, Toffee's liquid form being suitably unnerving, the return of the Whispering Spell, Star and Marco finally reuniting and hugging, Star's achieving a GoldenSuperMode, and Toffee's defeat ultimately being a fitting result of [[HoistByHisOwnPetard his own hubris and characters exploiting some of the mistakes he himself made]], allowing for [[TheDogBitesBack his biggest victims, Star and Ludo]], to directly eliminate him themselves.]]
42	* "Booth Buddies" The fact that [[spoiler:Star and Marco's first kiss happened while she was still dating Tom]] was immediately controversial, even if it did happen under duress. On one hand, there were fans who felt that [[spoiler:the kiss was forced and that Marco looked like a jerk for making Star "cheat" on Tom. However, others pointed out that he had good intentions since the two of them wouldn't have been able to leave the photo booth (or at least, genuinely thought they couldn't) unless such action was taken. It was also pointed out that Tom had done worse things to Star and probably wouldn't have been much different, along with Star being very much aware that she was still with Tom during her moment of shock afterwards. [[TakeAThirdOption There's also a third group of people -specifically the more diehard Starco shippers-]] that didn't care about any of the above as long as the two finally got to kiss]].
43	* If you love The Romantic Subplot and are a Starco shipper, you are gonna love "Curse of the Blood Moon" and consider it one of the best episodes of the series. If you don't love the Romantic Subplot, consider it the weakest part of the show, or just indifferent about it, you will think is unnecesary and an example of all the problems that the ShipTease introduce in the show. The ending is either an huge TearJerker or {{Narm}} depending on how invested you are in Starco (for many fans, it was more of a LikeYouWouldReallyDoIt situation).
44	** On the other hand, even some Starco fans dislike it for implying that most of their romantic feelings towards each other were simply a result of the curse.
45	* "Surviving the Spiderbites" is either a fascinating exploration on the show's mythology and backstory for showing [[spoiler: that Globgor did some horrible things showing he wasn't just misunderstood like it was believed before]], a detour in the already overloaded Season Arc that wasn't very well-explained, [[TakeAThirdOption or]] a retcon that contradicts information from both the previous season and ''Literature/TheMagicBookOfSpells'' and creates plot holes that weren't even brought up in any of the later episodes, giving the impression that the "reveal" was only introduced to create forced tension between Eclipsa and Star.
46	* The ending of "Cornotation" is controversial [[spoiler: with Rhombulus being the one who de-crystallized Globgor to prove how dangerous he can be, and how easily the people of Mewni accepted Globgor as their new King]]. Some felt like this was an awkward way to end the [[spoiler: Globgor]] arc because [[spoiler:it turned Rhombulus from good-natured but InnocentlyInsensitive to a KnightTemplar.]] Many also found it weird how [[spoiler:it took two-thirds of the season for Mewmans to start accepting Eclipsa (who was never proved to have done anything actually evil), while Globgor (who even Eclipsa admits was the cause of much suffering) is quickly accepted]]. However, other fans thought [[spoiler:Rhombulus's]] actions were completely in-character, and that [[spoiler:seeing Globgor and Eclipsa behave naturally during the event]] justified the quick turnaround.
47	** With that said, between the revelation in "The Tavern at the End of the Multiverse" that [[spoiler:it was actually Moon's idea to release Globgor]] and the more controversial GrandFinale, detractors began giving the episode a warmer reception.
48	* The legendarily polarizing GrandFinale that was "Cleaved," whose ending is now infamous. Detractors specifically point to Star defeating the villain by [[spoiler: destroying all magic]] as a horrible last-second plan that has the side effect of [[spoiler:killing all the inhabitants of the Magic Realm, as well as any beings dependent on magic to survive]], as well as [[spoiler:[[MergedReality the merging of Earth and Mewni]] via ThePowerOfLove]] being a confusing AssPull that diminished the intended sacrifice of our heroes and gives off a lot of FridgeHorror. Meanwhile, fans of the finale feel like it managed to tie up all the important loose ends and that it delivered more than enough great character moments to feel like a satisfying conclusion, from [[spoiler: Eclipsa and Moon interacting with the ghosts of their respective mothers, to Star and Marco giving what they believe to be their final goodbyes, to even Janna and Marco affirming their friendship. And Star and Marco getting to move forward with their relationship.]]
49	[[/folder]]
50
51	[[folder:Romance Subplot]]
52	* The ShipTease. As detailed in RomanticPlotTumor, Season 3 teased numerous ships while also attempting to sink others: after she's forced to return to Mewni, Star tries to get over Marco and gets back with her ex-boyfriend Tom in the process. Meanwhile, Jackie breaks up with Marco, which gives him the freedom to go to Mewni. Marco then receives ShipTease with Kelly, who has broken up with Tad (for real this time)... in the exact same episode Marco finally acknowledges his feelings for Star. Star and Marco later end up sharing a kiss behind Tom's back. Oh, and somewhere in the middle of all this, Marco also ends up angering Hekapoo into stopping their adventures together.[[note]] If you're keeping track, that's Starco at anchor, Tomstar in turbulent waters, Kellco teased, Markapoo sunk, and Jarco sunk.[[/note]] Meanwhile, the final season had [[spoiler: Kellco at sail for three episodes before [[OffscreenBreakup sinking offscreen]], Tomstar eventually hitting an iceberg and sinking after several episodes showcased how turbulent those waters were, and Starco finally leaving harbor and setting sail [[LateMinuteHookup in the final four episodes]]]]. Some viewers were perfectly okay with all of this, noting that teasing ships wasn't something new to the show. However, others felt that all the romantic melodrama was pointless and distracted from other aspects of the show, such as the ongoing MythArc concerning Eclipsa and the monsters, as well as the comedy. Considering that [[spoiler:Starco as the final pairing had been seen as a ForegoneConclusion in the fandom since season one]], this group feels that the romance subplot ended up being one of the most annoying and transparent examples WillTheyOrWontThey in television, also arguing that while previous seasons might've had a ton of ship tease, they rarely had whole episodes devoted ''solely'' to it.
53	* There's a rift between three groups: those who [[FanPreferredCouple ship Star and Marco]], those who prefer them as PlatonicLifePartners and those who think they should have become a couple earlier than they did. The second group are mostly tired and bored of the typical cliché of "the two opposite-sex leads become the OfficialCouple" and feel having the duo just be close friends would be more interesting. The first either disagree with that reasoning, or agree in principle but think that the show itself [[Administrivia/TropesAreTools executed the friends-to-lovers trope extremely well]], and that Star and Marco's chemistry more than compensates for that cliché. The final group argues that it was the execution of the ship that was the problem and teasing different ships not only detracted from the rest of the plot, but also made the them ending up together less satisfying and less natural in the end.
54	* The breakup between Jackie and Marco. Some were happy with the breakup due to disliking the pairing, while others were disappointed/angered because [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot it could've had more focus before it ended]]. Of the total four episodes that showcase their relationship, only "Bon Bon the Birthday Clown" (where they get together) and "Sophomore Slump" (where they breakup) has their dynamic as the focus of the episode. [[note]] ''Just Friends'' has Marco be the third wheel in a group outing and ends with Star trying and failing to invoke IWantMyBelovedToBeHappy, while the romance half of ''Starcrushed'' also places its focus on Star's feelings for Marco.[[/note]] The previously-mentioned objection towards the separation between Earth and Mewni also plays a role in this, as many felt the reason the breakup happened so quickly was solely because the Earth setting was being phased out and Jackie was an "Earth" character who was deemed to have no role in the new all-Mewni setting. Jarco shippers, and just Jackie fans in general, found this particularly galling since other "Earth characters" would still have appearances in that season, either from dropping in and visiting Mewni themselves, or Marco going back to Earth on a quick visit. On the other hand, many fans found the actual breakup scene itself to be well-written and emotionally satisfying, even ones who wished it hadn't happened so quickly.
55	* Star and Tom getting back together proved heavily divisive. Due to the implication that their relationship was formerly toxic and abusive, and the fact that Tom himself was always a very divisive character, this was inevitable. To make matters worse, their history was 'expanded upon' (completely rewritten) to turn what was a subtle allegory for abuse into a pretty blatant depiction... in the other direction. (Star is shown to be abusive and neglectful of Tom, implying his bloodmoon stunt was the result of him biting back after being belittled and ignored for the entirety of their relationship) One party was perfectly okay with Tom getting back with Star, citing Tom's CharacterDevelopment as evidence against the relationship becoming abusive again. Another party saw it as the show advocating getting back together with an abusive ex, and think no matter how much Tom attempted to change, he would revert to being an abuser (or just unwilling to forgive Tom even if he ''had'' changed for the rape-like implication of his previous attempt to bind Star's soul to his own against her will). A third party was willing to wait and see, having hope that Tom's CharacterDevelopment would hold and that he'd continue to improve as a character, but also being weary of what the writers would [[DerailingLoveInterests eventually have him do in order to justify Star inevitably leaving him again]]. A fourth party just hated the ship altogether due to it interfering with '''other''' ships that they preferred.[[note]]On the Star side, namely Starco, on the Tom side, namely Tomco.[[/note]] Regardless of stance, that the two of them got back together was widely seen as [[AssPull coming completely out of left field with zero setup]], as Star goes from hating him, to wanting to be friends again, to rekindling their romance in ''less than 5 minutes''.

Context BrokenBase / StarVsTheForcesOfEvil