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** And in ''Redux'', [[spoiler:All of these "solutions" get deconstructed further; Law lead to humanity losing it's free will and killing everyone who rebelled, Chaos lead to every human save one killing each other. Even the original Neutral becomes a DownerEnding with the revelation that [[HobbesWasRight humans ended up repeating the same mistakes anyway]]. The Law+ and Chaos+ endings give you a chance to avert these fates by exposing the hypocrisies of the people pushing these extreme ideologies.]]

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** And in ''Redux'', [[spoiler:All [[spoiler:all of these "solutions" get deconstructed further; Law lead leads to humanity losing it's its free will and killing everyone who rebelled, rebels, Chaos lead leads to every human save one killing each other. Even the original Neutral becomes a DownerEnding with the revelation that [[HobbesWasRight humans ended up repeating the same mistakes anyway]]. The Law+ and Chaos+ endings give you a chance to avert these fates by exposing the hypocrisies of the people pushing these extreme ideologies.]]


*** Then in ''Redux'', [[spoiler:Neutral shows that humanity ''can't change''. Once the problem is fixed, they go right back to the thing that created the whole problem in the first place]].



** In a rather inexplicable case of GameplayAndStorySegregation, the full-demon [[spoiler: Soil Jimenez]] fought on the Law route is actually far easier than the half-demon [[spoiler: "Awake" form]] fought on Neutral. The former form doesn't change his weakness and will only use his strongest attacks if you're dumb enough to let him buff to full, while you'll have no such luxury with the latter.

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** In a rather inexplicable case of GameplayAndStorySegregation, the full-demon [[spoiler: Soil [[spoiler:Soil Jimenez]] fought on the Law route is actually far easier than the half-demon [[spoiler: "Awake" [[spoiler:"Awake" form]] fought on Neutral. The former form doesn't change his weakness and will only use his strongest attacks if you're dumb enough to let him buff to full, while you'll have no such luxury with the latter.



* JerkassWoobie: [[spoiler: The Demiurge]] has some Woobie traits, being played very similarly to a mentally-disabled person. Though, [[spoiler: he used to be YHVH so you can't feel ''too'' sorry for him]].
* LesYay: After Zelenin [[spoiler: becomes an angel]], Dr. Zoe goes off on a tangent about how she would like to "examine" every inch of her.

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* IdiotPlot: In ''Redux'', how would [[spoiler:Alex killing you]] solve anything? At best, it does absolutely nothing. At worst, it just means [[spoiler:humanity is made extinct instead of defeating the Schwarzwelt the first time]].
* JerkassWoobie: [[spoiler: The [[spoiler:The Demiurge]] has some Woobie traits, being played very similarly to a mentally-disabled person. Though, [[spoiler: he [[spoiler:he used to be YHVH so you can't feel ''too'' sorry for him]].
* LesYay: After Zelenin [[spoiler: becomes [[spoiler:becomes an angel]], Dr. Zoe goes off on a tangent about how she would like to "examine" every inch of her.


** [[spoiler: Commander Gore]] on the Law & Chaos routes. His normal attack does 5 hits to one party member (enough to kill if you're not careful), and his abilities don't help either. Self-Denial heals him and boosts his attack. His other abilities do very high random-target phys or gun damage... and when he TurnsRed, he starts spamming Charge + Adaptation, which is fatal if you're not both strong to phys and guarding (and still can be even then). Not to mention that when he hits 0 hp the first time, he heals back up to full health. He's got 7500 HP, by the way. That puts his total (15000) as the ''highest in the game''. The only thing going for you is he's weak to wind, and if you were smart, you picked up something with Garudyne (differing by alignment) back in Grus, and maybe the Reaper Colt gun while you were at it. In Redux he gets a bit of a nerf: thanks to the new mechanics of support spells activating faster than offensive spells, spamming Tetrakarn is a viable tactic, as most of Gore's heaviest attacks are Physical or Gun and his AI isn't smart enough to keep him from slamming into a reflective shield most of the time.

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** [[spoiler: Commander Gore]] on the Law & Chaos routes. His normal attack does 5 hits to one party member (enough to kill if you're not careful), and his abilities don't help either. Self-Denial heals him and boosts his attack. His other abilities do very high random-target phys or gun damage... and when he TurnsRed, he starts spamming Charge + Adaptation, which is fatal if you're not both strong to phys and guarding (and still can be even then). Not to mention that when he hits 0 hp the first time, he heals back up to full health. He's got 7500 HP, by the way. That puts his total (15000) as the ''highest in the game''. The only thing going for you is he's weak to wind, and if you were smart, you picked up something with Garudyne (differing by alignment) back in Grus, and maybe the Reaper Colt gun while you were at it. In Redux ''Redux'' he gets a bit of a nerf: thanks to the new mechanics of support spells activating faster than offensive spells, spamming Tetrakarn is a viable tactic, as most of Gore's his heaviest attacks are Physical or Gun and his AI isn't smart enough to keep him from slamming into a reflective shield most of the time.


** Grand Tack (Grand Piercer in ''Redux'') is abnormally strong. Costing just 10MP, it's a Gun skill that hits as hard as '''Zan-ei on a New Moon.''' Remember how hard [[DemonicSpiders Take-Minakata]] hits with that skill? You now get to use the same power without any conditions. You can unlock it as early as level 26, through a D-Source from Pabilsag. When you get to level 55, a D-Source from Kresnik unlocks Riot Gun, which is almost '''twice as strong as Grand Tack'''.

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** Grand Tack (Grand Piercer in ''Redux'') is abnormally strong. Costing just 10MP, it's a Gun skill that hits as hard as '''Zan-ei Zan-ei on a New Moon.''' Moon. Remember how hard [[DemonicSpiders Take-Minakata]] hits with that skill? You now get to use the same power without any conditions. You can unlock it as early as level 26, through a D-Source from Pabilsag. When you get to level 55, a D-Source from Kresnik unlocks Riot Gun, which is almost '''twice as strong as Grand Tack'''.Tack'''.
** Double Down is a Sub-App that ensures that a demon will experience a skill mutation each time they level up. With enough luck you can mutate a superfluous skill into something even more useful, paving the way to a DiscOneNuke.


* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: The art team reworking the art for ''Redux'' was meet with mixed to extremely negative reception from series fans with many thinking that the new art looks very OffModel.

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* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: TheyChangedItNowItSucks:
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The art team reworking the art for ''Redux'' was meet with mixed to extremely negative reception from series fans with many thinking that the new art looks very OffModel.OffModel.
** Likewise, the absence of an English voice track in a franchise that has typically favored them, especially considering the game's multinational cast of characters, was very poorly received.


* BrokenAesop: The Neutral+ ending in ''Redux'' is one of the less-liked endings, as it runs counter to the humanist themes of SMT's neutrality. [[spoiler:Because humanity doesn't learn its lesson, the Schwarzwelt returns. Rather than trying to help humanity correct itself to prevent the return of the Schwarzwelt, the "solution" the protagonist and Alex takes is to become an immortal being and destroy it each time it appears. Humanity doesn't improve, doesn't forge its own future, and ends up relying on another immortal being for their safety. In part as its a clear [[SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism cynical response to the blind idealism]] in humanity that the original game gave by trusting humanity to get its act together that relies on nothing but faith for it to happen.]]

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** And in ''Redux'', [[spoiler:All of these "solutions" get deconstructed further; Law lead to humanity losing it's free will and killing everyone who rebelled, Chaos lead to every human save one killing each other. Even the original Neutral becomes a DownerEnding with the revelation that [[HobbesWasRight humans ended up repeating the same mistakes anyway]]. The Law+ and Chaos+ endings give you a chance to avert these fates by exposing the hypocrisies of the people pushing these extreme ideologies.]]

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*** [[spoiler: Belial, meanwhile, is packing Dawn Chariot, effectively a super-Rampage that pierces resistances (and unlike most SMT games, pierce goes through repel in this one). He also has a maxed Strength stat of ''99'', and even an endgame party is unlikely to have enough Vitality to survive more than two hits of this attack without grinding for Incense]].


* ThatOneAchievement: The mapping achievements. Since you have no way of manually drawing maps like in fellow Atlus series ''VideoGame/EtrianOdyssey'', this means you have to walk on literally every tile of a given floor to get the achievement. Get used to those damage files, status effect tiles, and pitfalls! And that's ''without'' getting into Sectors Eridanus and Grus and their damned teleporter mazes.

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* ThatOneAchievement: The mapping achievements. Since you have no way of manually drawing maps like in fellow Atlus series ''VideoGame/EtrianOdyssey'', this means you have to walk on literally every tile of a given floor to get the achievement. Get used to those damage files, status effect tiles, and pitfalls! And that's ''without'' getting into Sectors Eridanus and Grus and their damned teleporter mazes. You ''can'' use Red Carpet on a NewGamePlus to remove the RandomEncounters, but it doesn't erase the sheer tedium of having to set foot on every last tile on each floor.

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* ThatOneAchievement: The mapping achievements. Since you have no way of manually drawing maps like in fellow Atlus series ''VideoGame/EtrianOdyssey'', this means you have to walk on literally every tile of a given floor to get the achievement. Get used to those damage files, status effect tiles, and pitfalls! And that's ''without'' getting into Sectors Eridanus and Grus and their damned teleporter mazes.


* CounterpartComparison: Many compare the protagonist to that of the [[Videogame/{{Doom}} Doom Marine]] for their military enlistment, [[RatedMForManly manly designs]] and ability to face impossible odds against demons. It goes even further in ''Redux'''s extended Neutral ending, where [[spoiler:the protagonist seals himself in the Schwarzwelt to wage eternal war against demonkind.]].


** ''Redux'' adds the Lucifer equipment set, all of which are exceptionally powerful but must be obtained by defeating the new Bonus Bosses. To note:

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** ''Redux'' adds the Lucifer equipment set, all of which are exceptionally powerful but must be obtained by defeating the new Bonus Bosses. {{Bonus Boss}}es. Granted, [[PurposelyOverpowered they are worthy prizes for beating the toughest bosses the game has to offer.]] To note:



*** The Lucifer Gun, a multi-target gun that has the obscenely-powerful [[CriticalHit Final Seven]] skill.

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*** The Lucifer Gun, a multi-target gun that has the obscenely-powerful [[CriticalHit Final Seven]] skill.skill, which becomes great for triggering Co-Ops all the time.


* CompleteMonster: The {{greed}}y Captain [[EvilBrit Jack]] proves that even in the demon world, [[HumansAreTheRealMonsters sometimes the worst monster is humanity]]. [[spoiler:A PrivateMilitaryContractor loyal to nothing but [[OnlyInItForTheMoney his own pocketbook]] (in his mind, [[NietzscheWannabe it's the only thing with any permanence in the world]]), Jack is hired by [[CorruptCorporateExecutive an unnamed client corporation]] to pillage the demon world of its natural resources, a job he takes a twisted pride in. Though initially appearing as an uneasy ally to the protagonists, it is eventually revealed that he plans to manufacture a demon army for his client and himself, regularly [[MadScientist performing painful amputations on any demon unfortunate enough to fall into his clutches]] and [[LegoGenetics fusing them together]] [[BodyHorror into unstable forms]] [[AndIMustScream that leave them in constant pain]]. Jack's [[MoralEventHorizon worst action]], however, is fusing the protagonist's ally [[AntiHero Jimenez]] - a human - with his MoralityPet Bugaboo, resulting in an extremely violent HalfHumanHybrid who causes many more horrible things to happen later on in the game. When finally confronted by the protagonist and Jimenez, Jack's only action is to scold them for costing him valuable men and equipment before engaging them in a final battle.]]

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* CompleteMonster: The {{greed}}y greedy [[OnlyInItForTheMoney Captain [[EvilBrit Jack]] proves that even in the demon world, [[HumansAreTheRealMonsters sometimes the worst monster is humanity]]. [[spoiler:A A PrivateMilitaryContractor loyal to nothing but [[OnlyInItForTheMoney his own pocketbook]] (in his mind, [[NietzscheWannabe it's the only thing with any permanence in the world]]), pocketbook, Jack is hired by [[CorruptCorporateExecutive an unnamed client corporation]] corporation to pillage the demon world of its natural resources, a job he takes a twisted pride in. Though initially appearing as an uneasy ally to the protagonists, it is eventually revealed that he plans to manufacture a demon army for his client and himself, regularly [[MadScientist [[PlayingWithSyringes performing painful amputations on any demon unfortunate enough to fall into his clutches]] and [[LegoGenetics fusing them together]] [[BodyHorror together into unstable forms]] forms [[AndIMustScream that leave them in constant pain]]. Jack's [[MoralEventHorizon worst action]], however, is fusing When the protagonist's ally [[AntiHero Jimenez]] - a human - Jimenez tries to stop the experiments, Jack sends him to be tortured and fused with his MoralityPet Bugaboo, resulting in an extremely violent HalfHumanHybrid who causes many more horrible things demon friend Bugaboo to happen later on in the game.use him as a slave. When finally confronted by the protagonist and Jimenez, Jack's only action is to scold them for costing him valuable men and equipment before engaging them in a final battle.]]

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*** Demonee-Ho's second request: Kill Ares while using demons that have 15 or less Vitality. This means that unless your Main Character is over-leveled, nobody on your team will be able to tank more than one hit before dying and Ares will counterattack if you use physical or piercing attacks.


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*** Demonee-Ho's sixth request: Defeat Demonee-Ho and two Fake Demonica demons while your team's total level is less than 180. The two Demonica demons will deal damage and debuff you and if you kill them, Demonee-Ho will resummon them. Demonee-Ho himself also hits like a truck with his Breath and Desperate Hit attacks.


*** The Lucifer Sword, a single-target sword that pierces through any resistances to physical damage. This trivializes any enemy that is resists, nulls, absorbs, or reflects physical.

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*** The Lucifer Sword, a single-target sword that pierces through any resistances to physical damage. This trivializes any enemy that is resists, nulls, absorbs, or reflects physical.

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