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* TheWoobie: Daigoro, often. [[spoiler: The worst moment being what happens to his dog.]]

to:

* %%* TheWoobie: Daigoro, often. [[spoiler: The worst moment being what happens to his dog.]]
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** In ''Baby Cart In Peril,'' Itto's HostageSituation with Lord Owari starts out as a tense climax involving Itto pissing off and running from two pursuing armies at once. It promptly becomes a joke when Owari decides [[FearInducedIdiocy it's a wonderful idea to step out of cover during a bombardment in the hopes he can order everyone to stand down and gets ''obliterated'' so thoroughly by a volley that a ''Franchise/LooneyTunes''-style crater is all that's left. The film plays this alarmingly straight and follows this with Itto declaring this battle to be a LastStand and arranging a murder-suicide pact with his own son, placing the tone all over the place.

to:

** In ''Baby Cart In Peril,'' Itto's HostageSituation with Lord Owari starts out as a tense climax involving Itto pissing off and running from two pursuing armies at once. It promptly becomes a joke when Owari decides [[FearInducedIdiocy decides it's a wonderful idea to step out of cover during a bombardment in the hopes he can order everyone to stand down and gets ''obliterated'' so thoroughly by a volley that a ''Franchise/LooneyTunes''-style crater is all that's left. The film plays this alarmingly straight and follows this with Itto declaring this battle to be a LastStand and arranging a murder-suicide pact with his own son, placing the tone all over the place.

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* {{Narm}}: Some moments can come off as unintentionally humorous for how seriously they're played. For instance, the Watari-kachi mercenary Kanbei, after getting into a fight with Itto, being mortally wounded and confessing his life story unprompted, ending by shouting "Tell me, Ogami Itto! ''What is Bushido!?''" He has never met Itto before. This would not be the first, or the last, time in the series that someone considers Itto basically the walking embodiment of Bushido even after declaring himself a ronin and killing a lot of people for money.

to:

* {{Narm}}: Some moments can come off as unintentionally humorous for how seriously they're played. For instance, the
** The
Watari-kachi mercenary Kanbei, after getting into a fight with Itto, being mortally wounded and confessing his life story unprompted, ending by shouting "Tell me, Ogami Itto! ''What is Bushido!?''" He has never met Itto before. This would not be the first, or the last, time in the series that someone considers Itto basically the walking embodiment of Bushido even after declaring himself a ronin and killing a lot of people for money.money.
** In ''Baby Cart In Peril,'' Itto's HostageSituation with Lord Owari starts out as a tense climax involving Itto pissing off and running from two pursuing armies at once. It promptly becomes a joke when Owari decides [[FearInducedIdiocy it's a wonderful idea to step out of cover during a bombardment in the hopes he can order everyone to stand down and gets ''obliterated'' so thoroughly by a volley that a ''Franchise/LooneyTunes''-style crater is all that's left. The film plays this alarmingly straight and follows this with Itto declaring this battle to be a LastStand and arranging a murder-suicide pact with his own son, placing the tone all over the place.

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Thought this suited the entry more.


* DesignatedHero: Ogami Itto, sort of. Of course, he has plenty of noble qualities to his name and almost comes across as an ideal hero at times, but he is also still a ruthless hitman who puts his toddler-aged son's life in danger as part of his job, as well as exposing Daigoro to traumatic violence regularly. He does, however, explain this as part of his way of life, and claims to be beyond conventional norms of right and wrong, so it is hard to tell how much your really supposed to consider him the hero.



* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic:
** Some villains intended to be sympathetic sometimes simply ''aren't''. Take Kanbei, one of the Watari-kachi mercenaries, who takes no part in his comrades attempting to rape a noblewoman and her daughter, interferes only when they accidentally reveal their employer to the women's enraged servant when he saves them, then kills the servant and the women both. There's very little by way of sad past that can possibly excuse him for this, let alone any code of supposed honor.
** Ogami Itto himself as well, sort of. Of course, he has plenty of noble qualities to his name and almost comes across as an ideal hero at times, but he is also still a ruthless hitman who puts his toddler-aged son's life in danger as part of his job, as well as exposing Daigoro to traumatic violence regularly. He does, however, explain this as part of his way of life, and claims to be beyond conventional norms of right and wrong, so it is hard to tell how sympathetic he is really supposed to be.

to:

* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic:
**
UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: Some villains intended to be sympathetic sometimes simply ''aren't''. Take Kanbei, one of the Watari-kachi mercenaries, who takes no part in his comrades attempting to rape a noblewoman and her daughter, interferes only when they accidentally reveal their employer to the women's enraged servant when he saves them, then kills the servant and the women both. There's very little by way of sad past that can possibly excuse him for this, let alone any code of supposed honor. \n** Ogami Itto himself as well, sort of. Of course, he has plenty of noble qualities to his name and almost comes across as an ideal hero at times, but he is also still a ruthless hitman who puts his toddler-aged son's life in danger as part of his job, as well as exposing Daigoro to traumatic violence regularly. He does, however, explain this as part of his way of life, and claims to be beyond conventional norms of right and wrong, so it is hard to tell how sympathetic he is really supposed to be.



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* PoorExportForYou: The first attempt to bring the manga to the United States was by First Comics and was championed (and had covers drawn by) famed creator Creator/FrankMiller. While the quality of the series was good, it unfortunately ended in 1991 when the publisher closed, adapting only roughly a third of the series. It wouldn't be until Creator/DarkHorseComics restarted publishing the series in manga-style volumes in 2000 before Western fans who weren't literate in Japanese could see the end of the series.
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Added DiffLines:

* PoorExportForYou: The first attempt to bring the manga to the United States was by First Comics and was championed (and had covers drawn by) famed creator Creator/FrankMiller. While the quality of the series was good, it unfortunately ended in 1991 when the publisher closed, adapting only roughly a third of the series. It wouldn't be until Creator/DarkHorseComics restarted publishing the series in manga-style volumes in 2000 before Western fans who weren't literate in Japanese could see the end of the series.

Added: 502

Changed: 1331

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None


* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: Some villains intended to be sympathetic sometimes simply ''aren't''. Take Kanbei, one of the Watari-kachi mercenaries, who takes no part in his comrades attempting to rape a noblewoman and her daughter, interferes only when they accidentally reveal their employer to the women's enraged servant when he saves them, then kills the servant and the women both. There's very little by way of sad past that can possibly excuse him for this, let alone any code of supposed honor.
* Ogami Itto himself as well, sort of. Of course, he has plenty of noble qualities to his name and almost comes across as an ideal hero at times, but he is also still a ruthless hitman who puts his toddler-aged son's life in danger as part of his job, as well as exposing Daigoro to traumatic violence regularly. He does, however, explain this as part of his way of life, and claims to be beyond conventional norms of right and wrong, so it is hard to tell how sympathetic he is really supposed to be.

to:

* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: UnintentionallyUnsympathetic:
**
Some villains intended to be sympathetic sometimes simply ''aren't''. Take Kanbei, one of the Watari-kachi mercenaries, who takes no part in his comrades attempting to rape a noblewoman and her daughter, interferes only when they accidentally reveal their employer to the women's enraged servant when he saves them, then kills the servant and the women both. There's very little by way of sad past that can possibly excuse him for this, let alone any code of supposed honor.
* ** Ogami Itto himself as well, sort of. Of course, he has plenty of noble qualities to his name and almost comes across as an ideal hero at times, but he is also still a ruthless hitman who puts his toddler-aged son's life in danger as part of his job, as well as exposing Daigoro to traumatic violence regularly. He does, however, explain this as part of his way of life, and claims to be beyond conventional norms of right and wrong, so it is hard to tell how sympathetic he is really supposed to be.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* Ogami Itto himself as well, sort of. Of course, he has plenty of noble qualities to his name and almost comes across as an ideal hero at times, but he is also still a ruthless hitman who puts his toddler-aged son's life in danger as part of his job, as well as exposing Daigoro to traumatic violence regularly. He does, however, explain this as part of his way of life, and claims to be beyond conventional norms of right and wrong, so it is hard to tell how sympathetic he is really supposed to be.

Changed: 209

Removed: 218

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* {{Narm}}: Some moments can come off as unintentionally humorous for how seriously they're played. For instance, the Watari-kachi mercenary Kanbei, after getting into a fight with Itto, being mortally wounded and confessing his life story unprompted, ending by shouting "Tell me, Ogami Itto! ''What is Bushido!?''" He has never met Itto before.
** Though that would not be the first, or the last, time in the series that someone considers Itto basically the walking embodiment of Bushido even after declaring himself a ronin and killing a lot of people for money.

to:

* {{Narm}}: Some moments can come off as unintentionally humorous for how seriously they're played. For instance, the Watari-kachi mercenary Kanbei, after getting into a fight with Itto, being mortally wounded and confessing his life story unprompted, ending by shouting "Tell me, Ogami Itto! ''What is Bushido!?''" He has never met Itto before.
** Though that
before. This would not be the first, or the last, time in the series that someone considers Itto basically the walking embodiment of Bushido even after declaring himself a ronin and killing a lot of people for money.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* SugarWiki/AwesomeArt: ''Good lord'' is it ever. The series is well known and highly respected for it's high quality linework, with Kojima's grounded and gloriously dark artstyle really contributing to the mood and atmosphere of it's period.

to:

* SugarWiki/AwesomeArt: ''Good lord'' is it ever. The series is well known and highly respected for it's its high quality linework, with Kojima's grounded and gloriously dark artstyle art style really contributing to the mood and atmosphere of it's its period.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* {{Narm}}: Some moments can come off as unintentionally humorous for how seriously they're played. For instance, the Watari-kachi mercenary Kanbei, after getting into a fight with Itto, being mortally wounded and confessing his life story unprompted, ending by shouting "Tell me, Ogami Itto! ''What is Bushido!?'' He has never met Itto before.
** Though that would not be the first, or the last, time in the series that someone considers Itto basically the walking embodiment of the Bushido even after declaring himself a Ronin and killing a lot of people for money.

to:

* {{Narm}}: Some moments can come off as unintentionally humorous for how seriously they're played. For instance, the Watari-kachi mercenary Kanbei, after getting into a fight with Itto, being mortally wounded and confessing his life story unprompted, ending by shouting "Tell me, Ogami Itto! ''What is Bushido!?'' Bushido!?''" He has never met Itto before.
** Though that would not be the first, or the last, time in the series that someone considers Itto basically the walking embodiment of the Bushido even after declaring himself a Ronin ronin and killing a lot of people for money.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FairForItsDay: A casual glance at it's Trope Page should make clear the topic of sexuality and females is handled in a ''mixed way'' at the very least, especially when viewed from a modern perspective. But as noted in the afterword of Volume 9, by the setting's time period, and the time in which the manga was released, the series was actually rather progressive in how it portrays women, with tons of strong-willed and competent girls of all walks of life, heroic and villainous. Itto himself is very progressive for a Bushi, and is shown as having immense respect and admiration for women rising above the social status Japanese society has imposed upon them.
* FranchiseOriginalSin: Many have read or watched ''Manga/MadBull34'' and/or ''Manga/CryingFreeman'' and wondered how Kazuo Koike could go from making this seminal masterpiece to them. ''Lone Wolf and Cub'' features many of the same elements that critics have eviscerated those stories for: ridiculously over-the-top action, pulpy and unrealistic story beats, a juvenile and borderline-misogynistic attitude towards rape and sexuality that affects almost all the female characters, scatological humor, and ridiculously, even hilariously evil villains. But, ''Lone Wolf and Cub'' did a much better job of landing its dramatic and personal stories, grounding the [[{{Narm}} excess]] so that it [[NarmCharm still comes across effectively as human drama]]. It was also set in a distant, violent past, rather than a contemporary setting, dissociating the audience from events to a point and increasing the ceiling of WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief, and was often heavily-researched and showed it, in stark contrast to the ridiculous depictions of New York or the Chinese triads more informed by action movies than anything else.

to:

* FairForItsDay: A casual glance at it's the Trope Page should make clear the topic of sexuality and females is handled in a ''mixed way'' at the very least, especially when viewed from a modern perspective. But as noted in the afterword of Volume 9, by the setting's time period, and the time in which the manga was released, the series was actually rather progressive in how it portrays women, with tons of strong-willed and competent girls of all walks of life, heroic and villainous. Itto himself is very progressive for a Bushi, and is shown as having immense respect and admiration for women rising above the social status Japanese society has imposed upon them.
* FranchiseOriginalSin: Many have read or watched ''Manga/MadBull34'' and/or ''Manga/CryingFreeman'' and wondered how Kazuo Koike could go from making this seminal masterpiece to them. ''Lone Wolf and Cub'' features many of the same elements that critics have eviscerated those stories for: ridiculously over-the-top action, pulpy and unrealistic story beats, a juvenile and borderline-misogynistic attitude towards rape and sexuality that affects almost all the female characters, scatological humor, and ridiculously, even hilariously evil villains. But, ''Lone Wolf and Cub'' did a much better job of landing its dramatic and personal stories, grounding the [[{{Narm}} excess]] so that it [[NarmCharm still comes across effectively as human drama]]. It was also set in a distant, violent past, rather than a contemporary setting, dissociating the audience from events to a point and increasing the ceiling of WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief, and was often heavily-researched and showed it, to the point of many chapters devoting themselves to showing off some aspect of medieval Japanese life, in stark contrast to the ridiculous depictions of New York or the Chinese triads more informed by action movies than anything else.
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None

Added DiffLines:

** Though that would not be the first, or the last, time in the series that someone considers Itto basically the walking embodiment of the Bushido even after declaring himself a Ronin and killing a lot of people for money.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FairForItsDay: A casual glance at it's Trope Page should make clear the topic of sexuality and females is handled in a ''mixed way'' at the very least, especially when viewed from a modern perspective. But as noted in the afterword of Volume 9, by the setting's time period, and the time in which the manga was released, the series was actually rather progressive in how it portrays women, with tons of strong-willed and competent girls of all walks of life, heroic and villainous. Ogami himself is very progressive for a Bushi, and is shown as having immense respect and admiration for woman rising above the social status Japanese society has imposed upon them.

to:

* FairForItsDay: A casual glance at it's Trope Page should make clear the topic of sexuality and females is handled in a ''mixed way'' at the very least, especially when viewed from a modern perspective. But as noted in the afterword of Volume 9, by the setting's time period, and the time in which the manga was released, the series was actually rather progressive in how it portrays women, with tons of strong-willed and competent girls of all walks of life, heroic and villainous. Ogami Itto himself is very progressive for a Bushi, and is shown as having immense respect and admiration for woman women rising above the social status Japanese society has imposed upon them.
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"This trope frequently gets misused for a work that is dark, angsty, or depressing. That is wrong. It only applies when there is no meaningful conflict because everyone is awful and the world sucks, and therefore there are no stakes for the audience. If people enjoy the work despite its tone, this trope does not apply."


* SoBleakItsBoring: The series is filled to the brim with violence, with countless people, both good and bad, meeting violent or otherwise unfortunate ends. Only a few side characters get what could be considered a happy ending. In addition, the unjust and unequal caste system of Japan in the Edo period is shown in all its dubious glory. Hence, it may be difficult for some to really care about the plot and the characters.

Added: 425

Removed: 438

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* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: The series is filled to the brim with violence, with countless people, both good and bad, meeting violent or otherwise unfortunate ends. Only a few side characters get what could be considered a happy ending. In addition, the unjust and unequal caste system of Japan in the Edo period is shown in all its dubious glory. Hence, it may be difficult for some to really care about the plot and the characters.


Added DiffLines:

* SoBleakItsBoring: The series is filled to the brim with violence, with countless people, both good and bad, meeting violent or otherwise unfortunate ends. Only a few side characters get what could be considered a happy ending. In addition, the unjust and unequal caste system of Japan in the Edo period is shown in all its dubious glory. Hence, it may be difficult for some to really care about the plot and the characters.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
There's a reason it's considered a masterpiece.


* FranchiseOriginalSin: Many have read or watched ''Manga/MadBull34'' and/or ''Manga/CryingFreeman'' and wondered how Kazuo Koike could go from making this seminal masterpiece to them. Well, many of those readers are probably [[MainstreamObscurity more familiar with the series' reputation than its reality]]. ''Lone Wolf and Cub'' features many of the same elements that critics have eviscerated those stories for: ridiculously over-the-top action, pulpy and unrealistic story beats, a juvenile and borderline-misogynistic attitude towards rape and sexuality that affects almost all the female characters, scatological humor, and ridiculously, even hilariously evil villains. But, ''Lone Wolf and Cub'' did a better job of landing its dramatic and personal stories, grounding the [[{{Narm}} excess]] so that it [[NarmCharm still comes across effectively as human drama]]. It was also set in a distant, violent past, rather than a contemporary setting, dissociating the audience from events to a point and increasing the ceiling of WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief, and was often heavily-researched and showed it, in stark contrast to the ridiculous depictions of New York or the Chinese triads more informed by action movies than anything else.

to:

* FranchiseOriginalSin: Many have read or watched ''Manga/MadBull34'' and/or ''Manga/CryingFreeman'' and wondered how Kazuo Koike could go from making this seminal masterpiece to them. Well, many of those readers are probably [[MainstreamObscurity more familiar with the series' reputation than its reality]]. ''Lone Wolf and Cub'' features many of the same elements that critics have eviscerated those stories for: ridiculously over-the-top action, pulpy and unrealistic story beats, a juvenile and borderline-misogynistic attitude towards rape and sexuality that affects almost all the female characters, scatological humor, and ridiculously, even hilariously evil villains. But, ''Lone Wolf and Cub'' did a much better job of landing its dramatic and personal stories, grounding the [[{{Narm}} excess]] so that it [[NarmCharm still comes across effectively as human drama]]. It was also set in a distant, violent past, rather than a contemporary setting, dissociating the audience from events to a point and increasing the ceiling of WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief, and was often heavily-researched and showed it, in stark contrast to the ridiculous depictions of New York or the Chinese triads more informed by action movies than anything else.

Added: 243

Removed: 233

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* SugarWiki/AwesomeArt: ''Good lord'' is it ever. The series is well known and highly respected for it's high quality linework, with Kojima's grounded and gloriously dark artstyle really contributing to the mood and atmosphere of it's period.



* AwesomeArt: ''Good lord'' is it ever. The series is well known and highly respected for it's high quality linework, with Kojima's grounded and gloriously dark artstyle really contributing to the mood and atmosphere of it's period.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* AwesomeArt: ''Good lord'' is it ever. The series is well known and highly respected for it's high quality linework, with Kojima's grounded and gloriously dark artstyle really contributing to the mood and atmosphere of it's period.


Added DiffLines:

* FairForItsDay: A casual glance at it's Trope Page should make clear the topic of sexuality and females is handled in a ''mixed way'' at the very least, especially when viewed from a modern perspective. But as noted in the afterword of Volume 9, by the setting's time period, and the time in which the manga was released, the series was actually rather progressive in how it portrays women, with tons of strong-willed and competent girls of all walks of life, heroic and villainous. Ogami himself is very progressive for a Bushi, and is shown as having immense respect and admiration for woman rising above the social status Japanese society has imposed upon them.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FranchiseOriginalSin: Many have read or watched ''Manga/MadBull34'' and/or ''Manga/CryingFreeman'' and wondered how Kazuo Koike could go from making this seminal masterpiece to them. Well, many of those readers are probably [[MainstreamObscurity more familiar with the series' reputation than its reality]]. ''Lone Wolf and Cub'' features many of the same elements that critics have eviscerated those stories for: ridiculously over-the-top action, pulpy and unrealistic story beats, a juvenile and borderline-misogynistic attitude towards rape and sexuality that affects almost all the female characters, scatological humor, ridiculously, even hilariously evil villains. But, ''Lone Wolf and Cub'' did a better job of landing its dramatic and personal stories, grounding the [[{{Narm}} excess]] so that it [[NarmCharm still comes across effectively as human drama]]. It was also set in a distant, violent past, rather than a contemporary setting, and was often heavily-researched in contrast to the ridiculous depictions of New York or the Chinese triads.

to:

* FranchiseOriginalSin: Many have read or watched ''Manga/MadBull34'' and/or ''Manga/CryingFreeman'' and wondered how Kazuo Koike could go from making this seminal masterpiece to them. Well, many of those readers are probably [[MainstreamObscurity more familiar with the series' reputation than its reality]]. ''Lone Wolf and Cub'' features many of the same elements that critics have eviscerated those stories for: ridiculously over-the-top action, pulpy and unrealistic story beats, a juvenile and borderline-misogynistic attitude towards rape and sexuality that affects almost all the female characters, scatological humor, and ridiculously, even hilariously evil villains. But, ''Lone Wolf and Cub'' did a better job of landing its dramatic and personal stories, grounding the [[{{Narm}} excess]] so that it [[NarmCharm still comes across effectively as human drama]]. It was also set in a distant, violent past, rather than a contemporary setting, dissociating the audience from events to a point and increasing the ceiling of WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief, and was often heavily-researched and showed it, in stark contrast to the ridiculous depictions of New York or the Chinese triads.triads more informed by action movies than anything else.

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