Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* OlderThanTheyThink: This musical uses songs from an older attempt to bring ''Grand Hotel'' as a musical, however this version called ''At The Grand'' was set in contentary Rome and did get mixed reviews and great audiences but one of the leads Paul Muni was ill and so the Producer cancelled the Broadway run.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Tear Jerker is NRLEP
Deleted line(s) 20 (click to see context) :
* TearJerker: A real life one, David Carroll who played the Baron originally on Broadway was HIV+ during the run, however the Cast Recording was postponed due to the legal problems of the score, when they were finally relented Carroll was first in the Recording Studio, he had AIDS by this point, he rehearsed it well but he died in the restroom his replacement Brent Barrett took over. However, he still appears at the end of the album thankfully there was a good live recording of him singing the solo ''Love Can't Happen'' which is painful to listen after knowing this story.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
"Idiot Plot" is now Flame Bait. Renamed one trope.
Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Was the Baron actually in love with Grusinskaya? Or did he just say that to prevent her from committing suicide and was merely being polite afterwards?
to:
* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Was the Baron actually in love with Grusinskaya? Or did he just say that to prevent her from committing suicide and was merely being polite afterwards?
Deleted line(s) 8 (click to see context) :
* IdiotPlot: The second half of the Baron's story is driven by him not being willing to let Grusinskaya pay for a train ticket for him. Even though she implied she'd be happy to pay off his debts, he'd rather steal or gamble than have her pay them. This has to do with traditional gender roles in which a Real Man was supposed to be financially responsible. Women could do favors and help men in other ways, but to him, financial aid would feel like the slippery slope to being a gigolo or kept man. He also can't consider it a loan to be repaid because he doesn't want to be in debt to anyone. And since he's considering a relationship with Grusinskaya, that's probably wise in the "never do business with friends" sense.
Changed line(s) 17,18 (click to see context) from:
* TheWoobie: [[SecretlyDying Kringelein]] and [[spoiler: [[DrivenToSuicide Grusinskaya]], [[InterruptedSuicide initially]].]]
to:
* TheWoobie: [[SecretlyDying Kringelein]] and [[spoiler: [[DrivenToSuicide Grusinskaya]], [[InterruptedSuicide initially]].{{in|terruptedSuicide}}itially.]]
Changed line(s) 21 (click to see context) from:
* TearJerker: A real life one, David Carroll who played the Baron originally on Broadway was HIV+ during the run, however the Cast Recording was postponed due to the legal problems of the score, when they were finally relented Carroll was first in the Recording Studio, he had AIDS by this point, he rehearsed it well but he died in the restroom his replacement Brent Barrett took over. However he still appears at the end of the album thankfully there was a good live recording of him singing the solo ''Love Can't Happen'' which is painful to listen after knowing this story.
to:
* TearJerker: A real life one, David Carroll who played the Baron originally on Broadway was HIV+ during the run, however the Cast Recording was postponed due to the legal problems of the score, when they were finally relented Carroll was first in the Recording Studio, he had AIDS by this point, he rehearsed it well but he died in the restroom his replacement Brent Barrett took over. However However, he still appears at the end of the album thankfully there was a good live recording of him singing the solo ''Love Can't Happen'' which is painful to listen after knowing this story.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* TearJerker: A real life one, David Carroll who played the Baron originally on Broadway was HIV+ during the run, however the Cast Recording was postponed due to the legal problems of the score, when they were finally relented Carroll was first in the Recording Studio, he had AIDS by this point, he rehearsed it well but he died in the restroom his replacement Brent Barrett took over. However he still appears at the end of the album thankfully there was a good live recording of him singing the solo ''Love Can't Happen'' which is painful to listen after knowing this story.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
* AwardSnub: Creator/JoanCrawford and Creator/JohnBarrymore weren't nominated for Best Actress and Best Actor.
to:
* AwardSnub: Creator/JoanCrawford and Creator/JohnBarrymore weren't nominated for Best Actress and Best Actor.Actor at the UsefulNotes/{{Academy Award}}s.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Deleted line(s) 21 (click to see context) :
----
Deleted line(s) 26 (click to see context) :
----
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Changed line(s) 22 (click to see context) from:
* HilariousInHindsight: The theory on the Fridge page about the Theatre/TakarazukaRevue Bolero being a dance between the Baron and Death gets funnier with the knowledge that Tamaki Ryou (2017 Baron) has played Death in both ''Theatre/RomeoEtJulietteDeLaHaineALamour'' and ''Theatre/{{Elisabeth}}'', opposite Manaki Reika (2017 Elizaveta) as Juliette and Elisabeth, respectively. The Doctor's line about Love and Death coming face to face would be taken literally in ''Roméo et Juliette'', as Love [[note]]created specifically for the Takarazuka productions[[/note]] and Death are both characters who spend much of their stage time dancing with each other. ''Elisabeth'' contains the song "The Rondo of Love and Death" (Ai to Shi no Rondo), in which Death falls in ''love'' with Elisabeth and decides not to take her soul. If only the Baron was that lucky.
to:
* HilariousInHindsight: The theory on the Fridge page about the Theatre/TakarazukaRevue Creator/TakarazukaRevue Bolero being a dance between the Baron and Death gets funnier with the knowledge that Tamaki Ryou (2017 Baron) has played Death in both ''Theatre/RomeoEtJulietteDeLaHaineALamour'' and ''Theatre/{{Elisabeth}}'', opposite Manaki Reika (2017 Elizaveta) as Juliette and Elisabeth, respectively. The Doctor's line about Love and Death coming face to face would be taken literally in ''Roméo et Juliette'', as Love [[note]]created specifically for the Takarazuka productions[[/note]] and Death are both characters who spend much of their stage time dancing with each other. ''Elisabeth'' contains the song "The Rondo of Love and Death" (Ai to Shi no Rondo), in which Death falls in ''love'' with Elisabeth and decides not to take her soul. If only the Baron was that lucky.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* AwardSnub: Creator/JoanCrawford and Creator/JohnBarrymore weren't nominated for Best Actress and Best Actor.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 19 (click to see context) from:
!!For the 2019 Series:
to:
!!For the 2019 Series:stage musical:
Added DiffLines:
* HilariousInHindsight: The theory on the Fridge page about the Theatre/TakarazukaRevue Bolero being a dance between the Baron and Death gets funnier with the knowledge that Tamaki Ryou (2017 Baron) has played Death in both ''Theatre/RomeoEtJulietteDeLaHaineALamour'' and ''Theatre/{{Elisabeth}}'', opposite Manaki Reika (2017 Elizaveta) as Juliette and Elisabeth, respectively. The Doctor's line about Love and Death coming face to face would be taken literally in ''Roméo et Juliette'', as Love [[note]]created specifically for the Takarazuka productions[[/note]] and Death are both characters who spend much of their stage time dancing with each other. ''Elisabeth'' contains the song "The Rondo of Love and Death" (Ai to Shi no Rondo), in which Death falls in ''love'' with Elisabeth and decides not to take her soul. If only the Baron was that lucky.
* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: The Doctor comes across as callous when he dismisses the pain of Erik's wife (going through childbirth) as lesser than war wounds.
!!For the 2019 Series:
----
* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: The Doctor comes across as callous when he dismisses the pain of Erik's wife (going through childbirth) as lesser than war wounds.
!!For the 2019 Series:
----
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
** TheMusical give them a love duet and explicitly paints the two as being deliriously in love.
to:
** TheMusical give gives them a love duet and explicitly paints the two as being deliriously in love.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** TheMusical give them a love duet and explicitly paints the two as being deliriously in love.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
to:
----
Changed line(s) 19,21 (click to see context) from:
to:
* TheScrappy: Ingrid. Carolina too.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
!!For the 1932 Film:
Added DiffLines:
!!For the 2019 Series:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 3,11 (click to see context) from:
* EnsembleDarkhorse: Even though the movie is more famous for Creator/GretaGarbo's "I want to be alone" line, some newer viewers find themselves being pleasantly surprised by Creator/JoanCrawford's performance - finding her to be superior to Garbo. This was the case on set too - as Garbo was brought back in to shoot additional scenes to beef up her role, after Crawford impressed.
* SugarWiki/HeartwarmingMoments: Flaemmchen waits at the bar for the Baron. He arrives and asks her to dance with Kringelein instead. Rather than getting annoyed or jealous, she agrees and does something so nice for a poor old man who doesn't have much time left.
* IdiotPlot: The second half of the Baron's story is driven by him not being willing to let Grusinskaya pay for a train ticket for him. Even though she implied she'd be happy to pay off his debts, he'd rather steal or gamble than have her pay them.
** This has to do with traditional gender roles in which a Real Man was supposed to be financially responsible. Women could do favors and help men in other ways, but to him, financial aid would feel like the slippery slope to being a gigolo or kept man. He also can't consider it a loan to be repaid because he doesn't want to be in debt to anyone. And since he's considering a relationship with Grusinskaya, that's probably wise in the "never do business with friends" sense.
* MemeticMutation: "I vant to be alone," thanks to it fitting so well with Creator/GretaGarbo's sudden retirement from public life.
** Garbo emphasized that the press had conflated this line with what she'd said in interviews at the time; "I want to be ''left'' alone", quite a different matter.
* MoralEventHorizon: [[spoiler: Presying]] crosses this when he [[spoiler:kills [[GentlemanThief the Baron]] just because he was trying to steal his pocket book.]]
* NarmCharm: Some of Greta Garbo's rather over the top mannerisms are amusing, but yet they fit her character's emotional state and are quite proper for a White Russian artiste at that time.
* SoOkayItsAverage: This movie has been used as an example of the Academy's questionable judgment in early years -- not exactly bad, but it didn't age well.
* SugarWiki/HeartwarmingMoments: Flaemmchen waits at the bar for the Baron. He arrives and asks her to dance with Kringelein instead. Rather than getting annoyed or jealous, she agrees and does something so nice for a poor old man who doesn't have much time left.
* IdiotPlot: The second half of the Baron's story is driven by him not being willing to let Grusinskaya pay for a train ticket for him. Even though she implied she'd be happy to pay off his debts, he'd rather steal or gamble than have her pay them.
** This has to do with traditional gender roles in which a Real Man was supposed to be financially responsible. Women could do favors and help men in other ways, but to him, financial aid would feel like the slippery slope to being a gigolo or kept man. He also can't consider it a loan to be repaid because he doesn't want to be in debt to anyone. And since he's considering a relationship with Grusinskaya, that's probably wise in the "never do business with friends" sense.
* MemeticMutation: "I vant to be alone," thanks to it fitting so well with Creator/GretaGarbo's sudden retirement from public life.
** Garbo emphasized that the press had conflated this line with what she'd said in interviews at the time; "I want to be ''left'' alone", quite a different matter.
* MoralEventHorizon: [[spoiler: Presying]] crosses this when he [[spoiler:kills [[GentlemanThief the Baron]] just because he was trying to steal his pocket book.]]
* NarmCharm: Some of Greta Garbo's rather over the top mannerisms are amusing, but yet they fit her character's emotional state and are quite proper for a White Russian artiste at that time.
* SoOkayItsAverage: This movie has been used as an example of the Academy's questionable judgment in early years -- not exactly bad, but it didn't age well.
to:
* EnsembleDarkhorse: Even though the movie is more famous for Creator/GretaGarbo's "I want to be alone" line, some newer viewers find themselves being pleasantly surprised by Creator/JoanCrawford's performance - finding performance--finding her to be superior to Garbo. This was the case on set too - too, as Garbo was brought back in to shoot additional scenes to beef up her role, after Crawford impressed.
* SugarWiki/HeartwarmingMoments: Flaemmchen waits at the bar for the Baron. He arrivesand and, after a brief dance, asks her to dance continue dancing with Kringelein instead. Rather than getting annoyed or jealous, she agrees and does something so nice for a poor old man who doesn't have much time left.
* IdiotPlot: The second half of the Baron's story is driven by him not being willing to let Grusinskaya pay for a train ticket for him. Even though she implied she'd be happy to pay off his debts, he'd rather steal or gamble than have her paythem.
**them. This has to do with traditional gender roles in which a Real Man was supposed to be financially responsible. Women could do favors and help men in other ways, but to him, financial aid would feel like the slippery slope to being a gigolo or kept man. He also can't consider it a loan to be repaid because he doesn't want to be in debt to anyone. And since he's considering a relationship with Grusinskaya, that's probably wise in the "never do business with friends" sense.
* MemeticMutation: "I vant to be alone," thanks to it fitting so well with Creator/GretaGarbo's sudden retirement from publiclife.
**life. Garbo emphasized that the press had conflated this line with what she'd said in interviews at the time; time: "I want to be ''left'' alone", alone," quite a different matter.
* MoralEventHorizon: [[spoiler:Presying]] Preysing]] crosses this when he [[spoiler:kills [[GentlemanThief the Baron]] just because he was trying to steal his pocket book.]]
book]].
* NarmCharm: Some of Greta Garbo's ratherover the top over-the-top mannerisms are amusing, but yet they fit her character's emotional state and are quite proper for a White Russian artiste at that time.
* SoOkayItsAverage: This movie has been used as an example of the Academy's questionable judgment in earlyyears -- not years--not exactly bad, but it didn't age well.
* SugarWiki/HeartwarmingMoments: Flaemmchen waits at the bar for the Baron. He arrives
* IdiotPlot: The second half of the Baron's story is driven by him not being willing to let Grusinskaya pay for a train ticket for him. Even though she implied she'd be happy to pay off his debts, he'd rather steal or gamble than have her pay
**
* MemeticMutation: "I vant to be alone," thanks to it fitting so well with Creator/GretaGarbo's sudden retirement from public
**
* MoralEventHorizon: [[spoiler:
* NarmCharm: Some of Greta Garbo's rather
* SoOkayItsAverage: This movie has been used as an example of the Academy's questionable judgment in early
Changed line(s) 14 (click to see context) from:
** After [[spoiler: the Baron's death]] Flaemmchen agrees to be Kringelein's companion in an attempt to be positive. But when they go to ring for a train ticket, they both nearly collapse in tears - still devastated.
to:
** After [[spoiler: the Baron's death]] Flaemmchen agrees to be Kringelein's companion in an attempt to be positive. But when they go to ring for a train ticket, they both nearly collapse in tears - still tears--still devastated.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
* EnsembleDarkhorse: Even though the movie is more famous for Greta Garbo's "I want to be alone" line, some newer viewers find themselves being pleasantly surprised by Creator/JoanCrawford's performance - finding her to be superior to Garbo. This was the case on set too - as Garbo was brought back in to shoot additional scenes to beef up her role, after Crawford impressed.
to:
* EnsembleDarkhorse: Even though the movie is more famous for Greta Garbo's Creator/GretaGarbo's "I want to be alone" line, some newer viewers find themselves being pleasantly surprised by Creator/JoanCrawford's performance - finding her to be superior to Garbo. This was the case on set too - as Garbo was brought back in to shoot additional scenes to beef up her role, after Crawford impressed.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
* EnsembleDarkhorse: Even though the movie is more famous for Greta Garbo's "I want to be alone" line, some newer viewers find themselves being pleasantly surprised by Joan Crawford's performance - finding her to be superior to Garbo. This was the case on set too - as Garbo was brought back in to shoot additional scenes to beef up her role, after Crawford impressed.
to:
* EnsembleDarkhorse: Even though the movie is more famous for Greta Garbo's "I want to be alone" line, some newer viewers find themselves being pleasantly surprised by Joan Crawford's Creator/JoanCrawford's performance - finding her to be superior to Garbo. This was the case on set too - as Garbo was brought back in to shoot additional scenes to beef up her role, after Crawford impressed.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added line(s) 8 (click to see context) :
** This has to do with traditional gender roles in which a Real Man was supposed to be financially responsible. Women could do favors and help men in other ways, but to him, financial aid would feel like the slippery slope to being a gigolo or kept man. He also can't consider it a loan to be repaid because he doesn't want to be in debt to anyone. And since he's considering a relationship with Grusinskaya, that's probably wise in the "never do business with friends" sense.
Added line(s) 8 (click to see context) :
** Garbo emphasized that the press had conflated this line with what she'd said in interviews at the time; "I want to be ''left'' alone", quite a different matter.
Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
* NarmCharm: Some of Greta Garbo's rather over the top mannerisms are amusing, but yet they fit her character's emotional state.
to:
* NarmCharm: Some of Greta Garbo's rather over the top mannerisms are amusing, but yet they fit her character's emotional state. state and are quite proper for a White Russian artiste at that time.
Changed line(s) 11 (click to see context) from:
** The scene where Kringelein thinks he's lost his pocket book (after having won an enormous amount of money gambling), when the Baron has taken it to pay off his debts. As he desperately searches for the book, the Baron ultimately can't bear to steal it and gives it to him.
to:
** The scene where Kringelein thinks he's lost his pocket book (after having won an enormous amount of money gambling), when the Baron has taken it to pay off his debts. As he desperately searches for the book, the Baron ultimately can't bear to steal it and gives it to him.him saying he just found it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Was the Baron actually in love with Grusinskaya? Or did he just say that to prevent her from committing suicide and was merely being polite afterwards?
* EnsembleDarkhorse: Even though the movie is more famous for Greta Garbo's "I want to be alone" line, some newer viewers find themselves being pleasantly surprised by Joan Crawford's performance - finding her to be superior to Garbo. This was the case on set too - as Garbo was brought back in to shoot additional scenes to beef up her role, after Crawford impressed.
* SugarWiki/HeartwarmingMoments: Flaemmchen waits at the bar for the Baron. He arrives and asks her to dance with Kringelein instead. Rather than getting annoyed or jealous, she agrees and does something so nice for a poor old man who doesn't have much time left.
* IdiotPlot: The second half of the Baron's story is driven by him not being willing to let Grusinskaya pay for a train ticket for him. Even though she implied she'd be happy to pay off his debts, he'd rather steal or gamble than have her pay them.
* EnsembleDarkhorse: Even though the movie is more famous for Greta Garbo's "I want to be alone" line, some newer viewers find themselves being pleasantly surprised by Joan Crawford's performance - finding her to be superior to Garbo. This was the case on set too - as Garbo was brought back in to shoot additional scenes to beef up her role, after Crawford impressed.
* SugarWiki/HeartwarmingMoments: Flaemmchen waits at the bar for the Baron. He arrives and asks her to dance with Kringelein instead. Rather than getting annoyed or jealous, she agrees and does something so nice for a poor old man who doesn't have much time left.
* IdiotPlot: The second half of the Baron's story is driven by him not being willing to let Grusinskaya pay for a train ticket for him. Even though she implied she'd be happy to pay off his debts, he'd rather steal or gamble than have her pay them.
Added DiffLines:
* NarmCharm: Some of Greta Garbo's rather over the top mannerisms are amusing, but yet they fit her character's emotional state.
Added DiffLines:
* TearJerker:
** The scene where Kringelein thinks he's lost his pocket book (after having won an enormous amount of money gambling), when the Baron has taken it to pay off his debts. As he desperately searches for the book, the Baron ultimately can't bear to steal it and gives it to him.
** After [[spoiler: the Baron's death]] Flaemmchen agrees to be Kringelein's companion in an attempt to be positive. But when they go to ring for a train ticket, they both nearly collapse in tears - still devastated.
* WatchItForTheMeme: Some watch it just to hear the famous Garbo quote.
** The scene where Kringelein thinks he's lost his pocket book (after having won an enormous amount of money gambling), when the Baron has taken it to pay off his debts. As he desperately searches for the book, the Baron ultimately can't bear to steal it and gives it to him.
** After [[spoiler: the Baron's death]] Flaemmchen agrees to be Kringelein's companion in an attempt to be positive. But when they go to ring for a train ticket, they both nearly collapse in tears - still devastated.
* WatchItForTheMeme: Some watch it just to hear the famous Garbo quote.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Garbo\'s character\'s name is GruSinskaya.
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* MemeticMutation: "I vant to be alone," thanks to it fitting so well with Creator/{{Greta Garbo}}'s sudden retirement from public life.
to:
* MemeticMutation: "I vant to be alone," thanks to it fitting so well with Creator/{{Greta Garbo}}'s Creator/GretaGarbo's sudden retirement from public life.
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
* TheWoobie: [[SecretlyDying Kringelein]] and [[spoiler: [[DrivenToSuicide Gruinskaya]], [[InterruptedSuicide initially]].]]
to:
* TheWoobie: [[SecretlyDying Kringelein]] and [[spoiler: [[DrivenToSuicide Gruinskaya]], Grusinskaya]], [[InterruptedSuicide initially]].]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Moving from main.
Changed line(s) 4 (click to see context) from:
* SoOkayItsAverage: This movie has been used as an example of the Academy's questionable judgment in early years -- not exactly bad, but it didn't age well.
to:
* SoOkayItsAverage: This movie has been used as an example of the Academy's questionable judgment in early years -- not exactly bad, but it didn't age well.well.
* TheWoobie: [[SecretlyDying Kringelein]] and [[spoiler: [[DrivenToSuicide Gruinskaya]], [[InterruptedSuicide initially]].]]
----
* TheWoobie: [[SecretlyDying Kringelein]] and [[spoiler: [[DrivenToSuicide Gruinskaya]], [[InterruptedSuicide initially]].]]
----
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* MemeticMutation: "I vant to be alone," thanks to it fitting so well with Greta Garbo's sudden retirement from public life.
to:
* MemeticMutation: "I vant to be alone," thanks to it fitting so well with Greta Garbo's Creator/{{Greta Garbo}}'s sudden retirement from public life.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
* MoralEventHorizon: [[spoiler: Presying]] crosses this when he kills [[RichBitch the Baron]] just because he was trying to steal his pocket book.
to:
* MoralEventHorizon: [[spoiler: Presying]] crosses this when he kills [[RichBitch [[spoiler:kills [[GentlemanThief the Baron]] just because he was trying to steal his pocket book.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
* MoralEventHorizon: [[spolier: Presying]] crosses this when he kills the [[Adorkable Baron]] just because he was trying to steal his pocket book.
to:
* MoralEventHorizon: [[spolier: [[spoiler: Presying]] crosses this when he kills [[RichBitch the [[Adorkable Baron]] just because he was trying to steal his pocket book.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* MoralEventHorizon: [[spolier: Presying]] crosses this when he kills the [[Adorkable Baron]] just because he was trying to steal his pocket book.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* AdaptationDisplacement: Of both the novel and the stage play based on it.
* MemeticMutation: "I vant to be alone," thanks to it fitting so well with Greta Garbo's sudden retirement from public life.
* SoOkayItsAverage: This movie has been used as an example of the Academy's questionable judgment in early years -- not exactly bad, but it didn't age well.
* MemeticMutation: "I vant to be alone," thanks to it fitting so well with Greta Garbo's sudden retirement from public life.
* SoOkayItsAverage: This movie has been used as an example of the Academy's questionable judgment in early years -- not exactly bad, but it didn't age well.