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* UnintentionallySympathetic: Maxilan Stragos, one of the main antagonists of ''Red Seas Under Red Skies''. While it's no surprise Jean and Locke hate him, the pair often dance on the edge of being UnintentionallyUnsympathetic themselves, and Stragos doesn't really do anything particularly bad to anyone but them, and has a number of redeeming qualities. He certainly is a WellIntentionedExtremist, trying to gain better control over the city in a power struggle against the Priori, but they're actively scheming against him in more or less the same way, so it hardly feels like something that makes him evil. His attempts to [[spoiler:increase the amount of piracy around the city to boost his own popularity by destroying it is certainly questionable, but destroying the pirates WOULD ultimately be good for Tel Verarr regardless]]. For this reason [[spoiler:the FateWorseThanDeath that Locke and Jean give him at the end of the book, which is supposed to be karmic, can be seen as unnecessarily cruel. The death they're punishing him for was ultimately caused by the actions of a different independent villain, although it technically came about as a result of them trying to fulfill Stragos' plan]].
* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: While obviously antiheroes already, the Gentleman Bastards can come across as unsympathetic due to their arrogance and criminal ways. This can cause problems when the reader is supposed to side with them as they are being brutally chastened.
* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: While obviously antiheroes already, the Gentleman Bastards can come across as unsympathetic due to their arrogance and criminal ways. This can cause problems when the reader is supposed to side with them as they are being brutally chastened.
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* UnintentionallySympathetic: Maxilan Stragos, one of the main antagonists of ''Red Seas Under Red Skies''. While it's no surprise Jean and Locke hate him, the pair often dance on the edge of being UnintentionallyUnsympathetic themselves, and Stragos doesn't really do anything particularly bad to anyone but them, Stragos' actions would primarily harm Locke and has a number of redeeming qualities. Jean (who are thieves) and the pirates. He certainly is a WellIntentionedExtremist, trying to gain better control over the city in a power struggle against the Priori, but they're actively scheming against him in more or less the same way, so it hardly feels like something that makes him evil. His attempts to [[spoiler:increase the amount of piracy around the city to boost his own popularity by destroying it is certainly questionable, but destroying the pirates WOULD ultimately be good for Tel Verarr regardless]]. way. For this reason [[spoiler:the FateWorseThanDeath that Locke and Jean give him at the end of the book, which is supposed to be karmic, book can be seen as unnecessarily cruel. The feel more like DisproportionateRetribution than karmic. He did poison them, but the only actual death they're punishing him for they personally care about was ultimately actually caused by the actions of a different independent villain, although it technically came about as a result of them trying to fulfill Stragos' plan]].
* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: While obviously antiheroes already, the Gentleman Bastards can come across as unsympathetic due to their arrogance and criminal ways.This can cause problems when It's mitigated somewhat by many of their victims being as bad or worse, but it means the reader is supposed to doesn't always side with them as they are intended when they're being brutally chastened.
* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: While obviously antiheroes already, the Gentleman Bastards can come across as unsympathetic due to their arrogance and criminal ways.
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* CaptainObviousReveal: In the second book, [[spoiler:Jean was just conning the mooks and isn't betraying Locke. Who really fell for that one? It doesn't help that there is zero evidence given throughout the book that Jean is growing dissatisfied enough to betray Locke.]]
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* CaptainObviousReveal: In the second book, [[spoiler:Jean was just conning the mooks and isn't betraying Locke. Who really fell for that one? one, aside from Locke apparently? It doesn't help that there is zero evidence given throughout the book that Jean is growing dissatisfied enough to betray Locke.]] Locke. Jean does call Locke out though, even missing the signal he really shouldn't have thought Jean was betraying him for even a second]].
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* UnintentionallySympathetic: Maxilan Stragos, one of the main antagonists of ''Red Seas Under Red Skies''. The narrative treats him as truly detestable but he doesn't really do anything all that heinous on screen, has a number of redeeming qualities, and his actions are those of a WellIntentionedExtremist trying to fight against the pirates plaguing his territory. For this reason [[spoiler:the FateWorseThanDeath that Locke and Jean give him at the end of the book, which is supposed to be karmic, can be seen as unnecessarily cruel. He's not even responsible for the death they're punishing him for. That was another, independent villain]].
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* UnintentionallySympathetic: Maxilan Stragos, one of the main antagonists of ''Red Seas Under Red Skies''. The narrative treats him as truly detestable but he While it's no surprise Jean and Locke hate him, the pair often dance on the edge of being UnintentionallyUnsympathetic themselves, and Stragos doesn't really do anything all that heinous on screen, particularly bad to anyone but them, and has a number of redeeming qualities, and his actions are those of qualities. He certainly is a WellIntentionedExtremist WellIntentionedExtremist, trying to fight gain better control over the city in a power struggle against the Priori, but they're actively scheming against him in more or less the same way, so it hardly feels like something that makes him evil. His attempts to [[spoiler:increase the amount of piracy around the city to boost his own popularity by destroying it is certainly questionable, but destroying the pirates plaguing his territory.WOULD ultimately be good for Tel Verarr regardless]]. For this reason [[spoiler:the FateWorseThanDeath that Locke and Jean give him at the end of the book, which is supposed to be karmic, can be seen as unnecessarily cruel. He's not even responsible for the The death they're punishing him for. That for was another, ultimately caused by the actions of a different independent villain]].villain, although it technically came about as a result of them trying to fulfill Stragos' plan]].
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Not ymmv
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* DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything: Karthain is ostensibly a democracy with a two-party system, but the parties are interchangeable and always serve at the pleasure of a small group of elites. It's a common criticism in Scott Lynch's native United States that the political theater of elections is just to provide the illusion of choice, and that all politicians will ultimately serve special interests who finance their campaigns and keep them in office.
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* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: The Gentleman Bastards are supposedly the characters we're meant to root for, but they often come off as quite unlikeable thanks to their conviction they are the cleverest men around, their MoralMyopia when it comes to their thieving (as they always insist their targets deserve to be conned out of their entire livelihoods and when the same thing happens to Locke, he responds by throwing a tantrum), and their arrogance ends up costing them dearly. [[WhatAnIdiot Bug's death in particular happens because he stupidly thought he could take on an armed assassin with a glorified slingshot, all while yelling about how nobody gets the better of the Gentleman Bastards.]] Unsurprisingly, RealityEnsues and he gets shot to death for his idiocy.
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* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: The While obviously antiheroes already, the Gentleman Bastards are supposedly the characters we're meant to root for, but they often can come off across as quite unlikeable thanks unsympathetic due to their conviction they are the cleverest men around, their MoralMyopia when it comes to their thieving (as they always insist their targets deserve to be conned out of their entire livelihoods and when the same thing happens to Locke, he responds by throwing a tantrum), and their arrogance ends up costing and criminal ways. This can cause problems when the reader is supposed to side with them dearly. [[WhatAnIdiot Bug's death in particular happens because he stupidly thought he could take on an armed assassin with a glorified slingshot, all while yelling about how nobody gets the better of the Gentleman Bastards.]] Unsurprisingly, RealityEnsues and he gets shot to death for his idiocy.as they are being brutally chastened.
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* UnintentionallySympathetic: Maxilan Stragos, one of the main antagonists of ''Red Seas Under Red Skies''. The narrative treats him as truly detestable but he doesn't really do anything all that heinous on screen, has a number of redeeming qualities, and his actions are those of a WellIntentionedExtremist trying to fight against the pirates plaguing his territory. For this reason [[spoiler:the FateWorseThanDeath that Locke and Jean give him at the end of the book, which is supposed to be karmic, can be seen as unnecessarily cruel. He's not even responsible for the death they're punishing him for. That was another, independent villain.]]
** On the other hand he's a pompous ass, an insufferably self-righteous blackmailer and poisoner, and it's heavily implied that he cares far more about keeping/hoarding power than the pirates, which aren't really a danger to Tal Verrar. Not to mention the entire plot happens b/c he wants a war to shore up his power base.
** On the other hand he's a pompous ass, an insufferably self-righteous blackmailer and poisoner, and it's heavily implied that he cares far more about keeping/hoarding power than the pirates, which aren't really a danger to Tal Verrar. Not to mention the entire plot happens b/c he wants a war to shore up his power base.
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* UnintentionallySympathetic: Maxilan Stragos, one of the main antagonists of ''Red Seas Under Red Skies''. The narrative treats him as truly detestable but he doesn't really do anything all that heinous on screen, has a number of redeeming qualities, and his actions are those of a WellIntentionedExtremist trying to fight against the pirates plaguing his territory. For this reason [[spoiler:the FateWorseThanDeath that Locke and Jean give him at the end of the book, which is supposed to be karmic, can be seen as unnecessarily cruel. He's not even responsible for the death they're punishing him for. That was another, independent villain.]]
** On the other hand he's a pompous ass, an insufferably self-righteous blackmailer and poisoner, and it's heavily implied that he cares far more about keeping/hoarding power than the pirates, which aren't really a danger to Tal Verrar. Not to mention the entire plot happens b/c he wants a war to shore up his power base.villain]].
** On the other hand he's a pompous ass, an insufferably self-righteous blackmailer and poisoner, and it's heavily implied that he cares far more about keeping/hoarding power than the pirates, which aren't really a danger to Tal Verrar. Not to mention the entire plot happens b/c he wants a war to shore up his power base.
