Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / GameOfThronesS6E9BattleOfTheBastards

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Not to mention how appropriate it is that in a few days, bits of Ramsay will start coming out of the dogs' other ends. Not even his remains will be treated with any kind of dignity.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

**** Sansa knows Jon well enough to know that his sense of honor would mess everything up -- if he'd known about the Vale knights, he'd have undoubtedly insisted that they line up with everyone else at the start of the battle, at which point Ramsay would most likely have turned tail and holed up at Winterfell, prompting a long siege that nobody has time for.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** When Yara, Theon, and the Greyjoys arrive to make their alliance with Dany, Tyrion gleefully taunts Theon during most of their screentime together and [[SelfServingMemory recalls Theon supposedly having made fun of him]] during their first meeting, even though Tyrion was the one being rude to the former in that episode, he makes it out as if Theon was the mean one in that instance, but this just makes him come off as a {{Jerkass}} especially when Theon has already been through so much that he can't and doesn't even fight back or retort, and Tyrion still decides to mock him at some points.

to:

** When Yara, Theon, and the Greyjoys arrive to make their alliance with Dany, Tyrion gleefully taunts Theon during most of their screentime together and [[SelfServingMemory recalls Theon supposedly having made fun of him]] during their first meeting, meeting; even though Tyrion was the one being rude to the former in that episode, he makes it out as if Theon was had been the mean one in that instance, but this just makes him come off as a {{Jerkass}} {{Jerkass}}, especially when Theon has already been through so much that he can't and doesn't even fight back or retort, and Tyrion still decides to mock him at some points.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


-->'''Sansa:'''[[ChekhovsGun They haven't eaten in seven days]]. You said it yourself.\\

to:

-->'''Sansa:'''[[ChekhovsGun -->'''Sansa:''' [[ChekhovsGun They haven't eaten in seven days]]. You said it yourself.\\

Added: 88

Changed: 265

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


--> '''Ramsay:''' They're loyal beasts.\\
'''Sansa:''' They were. ''Now they're starving.'' [[ChekhovsGun They haven't eaten in seven days]]. You said it yourself.\\

to:

-->
-->'''Sansa:'''[[ChekhovsGun They haven't eaten in seven days]]. You said it yourself.\\
'''Ramsay:''' They're loyal beasts.\\
'''Sansa:''' They were. ''Now they're starving.'' [[ChekhovsGun They haven't eaten in seven days]]. You said it yourself.\\''\\



** It gets even better if you know a certain tidbit from the books: the dogs are all female, and Ramsay named them all after women he hunted down with them.

to:

** It gets even better if you know a certain tidbit from the books: the dogs are all female, and Ramsay named them all after women he hunted down with them. In the show he reaches new levels of brutality by feeding his stepmother and newborn half-brother to his dogs just so he won’t have any threats to his claim to the family properties.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FranchiseOriginalSin: In retrospect, this episode already presents problems we would see two seasons later in "The Long Night," more specifically the fact that the battle depends on clever characters like Jon making stupid strategic mistakes. But the Battle of the Bastards was so visually impressive and exciting that at least in this case it was easy forgive this mistake.

to:

* FranchiseOriginalSin: In retrospect, this episode already presents problems we would see two seasons later in "The Long Night," more specifically the fact that the battle depends on clever characters like Jon making stupid strategic mistakes. But the Battle of the Bastards was so visually impressive and exciting that at least in this case it was easy to forgive this mistake.



** The "fermented goat milk" Tormund offers Davos is based on a real-life drink known as [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kefir Kefir]], which is very popular in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union. It does contain considerably less alcohol than the Wildling variant though. Despite Davos' apprehension, the real thing ''is'' considered delicious. This makes even more sense when you consider what much of the rest of the world knows fermented milk as: yogurt!
** Sansa's promise to Ramsay that House Bolton will be forever erased from history resembles the ''Damnatio memoriae'' practice in UsefulNotes/TheRomanEmpire, which was a form of dishonor that could be passed by the Roman Senate on traitors or others who brought discredit to the Roman State. The intent was to erase the malefactor from history, as if he or she had never existed.

to:

** The "fermented goat milk" Tormund offers Davos is based on a real-life drink known as [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kefir Kefir]], which is very popular in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union. It does contain considerably less alcohol than the Wildling variant though. Despite Davos' Davos's apprehension, the real thing ''is'' considered delicious. This makes even more sense when you consider what much of the rest of the world knows fermented milk as: yogurt!
** Sansa's promise to Ramsay that House Bolton will be forever erased from history resembles the ''Damnatio memoriae'' practice in UsefulNotes/TheRomanEmpire, which was a form of dishonor that could be passed by the Roman Senate on traitors or others who brought discredit to the The Roman State. The intent was to erase the malefactor from history, history as if he or she had never existed.



** The CGI-heavy battle scenes are improperly scaled at times. Kit Harington is of average height, but he looks about five feet tall in places (or else all the enemy soldiers are seven footers).

to:

** The CGI-heavy battle scenes are improperly scaled at times. Kit Harington is of average height, but he looks about five feet tall in places (or else all the enemy soldiers are seven footers).seven-footers).



** When Yara, Theon and the Greyjoys arrive to make their alliance with Dany, Tyrion gleefully taunts Theon during most of their screentime together and [[SelfServingMemory recalls Theon supposedly having made fun of him]] during their first meeting, even though Tyrion was the one being rude to the former in that episode, he makes it out as if Theon was the mean one in that instance, but this just makes him come off as a {{Jerkass}} especially when Theon has already been through so much that he can't and doesn't even fight back or retort, and Tyrion still decides to mock him at some points.

to:

** When Yara, Theon Theon, and the Greyjoys arrive to make their alliance with Dany, Tyrion gleefully taunts Theon during most of their screentime together and [[SelfServingMemory recalls Theon supposedly having made fun of him]] during their first meeting, even though Tyrion was the one being rude to the former in that episode, he makes it out as if Theon was the mean one in that instance, but this just makes him come off as a {{Jerkass}} especially when Theon has already been through so much that he can't and doesn't even fight back or retort, and Tyrion still decides to mock him at some points.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CatharsisFactor: After 3 seasons of being an InvincibleVillain, finally getting to see Ramsay Bolton get the shit kicked out of him and be defeated is '''immensely''' satisfying. This includes the fact that his Mary Tzu tactics have finally been subverted by the fact that he [[PyrrhicVillainy enjoys being a villain too much to be an effective leader]], costing every single man under his command until he is the only one left on his own side. Even better, his ultimate demise is an absolute HoistByHisOwnPetard: his cruelty in not letting his dogs eat for a week (expecting to feed Jon to them) turned them against him. He is then ''eaten alive'' by them.

to:

* CatharsisFactor: After 3 seasons of being an InvincibleVillain, finally getting to see Ramsay Bolton get the shit kicked out of him and be defeated is '''immensely''' satisfying. This includes the fact that his Mary Tzu tactics have finally been subverted by the fact that he [[PyrrhicVillainy enjoys being a villain too much to be an effective leader]], leader, costing every single man under his command until he is the only one left on his own side. Even better, his ultimate demise is an absolute HoistByHisOwnPetard: his cruelty in not letting his dogs eat for a week (expecting to feed Jon to them) turned them against him. He is then ''eaten alive'' by them.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:


** Rickon's death and [[EightDeadlyWords the audience's general lack of reaction to it]] has led to the phrasing "Rickon, Rickoff" regarding said death scene.

to:

** Rickon's death and [[EightDeadlyWords the audience's general lack of reaction to it]] it has led to the phrasing "Rickon, Rickoff" regarding said death scene.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
EDW is Definition-Only now.


* EightDeadlyWords: A mild case. Given the fact that Rickon has literally two scenes in the entirety of Season 6 (his first scene where he is handed to Ramsay and his death scene), the fact that he has no lines whatsoever in Season 6, and that he has [[PutOnABus not been seen since]] Season 3's ''The Rains of Castamere'', some people found it incredibly difficult to care about Rickon's death, some even demoting his existence as a character as nothing more than a plot device.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
This isn't YMMV either. Before editing this page, check the trope page first to confirm it is YMMV. Otherwise, it should go to the main page.


* WinBackTheCrowd: After the negative reviews of the previous episode "No One", this episode was received infinitely better, with acclaim for both battle sequences.
* WritersCannotDoMath: While at Dragonstone in the next season, Jon and Davos reveal that there are under 10,000 Northern fighters aligned with House Stark. Disregarding the Knights of the Vale, that means thousands of soldiers of Northern houses who remained neutral during the Battle of the Bastards ended up joining Jon after Ramsay was defeated. Why they didn't end up joining Jon against the Boltons in the first place is anyone's guess.

to:

* WinBackTheCrowd: After the negative reviews of the previous episode "No One", this episode was received infinitely better, with acclaim for both battle sequences.
* WritersCannotDoMath: While at Dragonstone in the next season, Jon and Davos reveal that there are under 10,000 Northern fighters aligned with House Stark. Disregarding the Knights of the Vale, that means thousands of soldiers of Northern houses who remained neutral during the Battle of the Bastards ended up joining Jon after Ramsay was defeated. Why they didn't end up joining Jon against the Boltons in the first place is anyone's guess.
sequences.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* WritersCannotDoMath: While at Dragonstone in the next season, Jon and Davos reveal that there are under 10,000 Northern fighters aligned with House Stark. That means thousands of soldiers of Northern houses who remained neutral during the Battle of the Bastards ended up joining Jon after Ramsay was defeated. Why they didn't end up joining Jon against the Boltons in the first place is anyone's guess.

to:

* WritersCannotDoMath: While at Dragonstone in the next season, Jon and Davos reveal that there are under 10,000 Northern fighters aligned with House Stark. That Disregarding the Knights of the Vale, that means thousands of soldiers of Northern houses who remained neutral during the Battle of the Bastards ended up joining Jon after Ramsay was defeated. Why they didn't end up joining Jon against the Boltons in the first place is anyone's guess.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* WinBackTheCrowd: After the negative reviews of the previous episode "No One", this episode was received infinitely better, with acclaim for both battle sequences.

to:

* WinBackTheCrowd: After the negative reviews of the previous episode "No One", this episode was received infinitely better, with acclaim for both battle sequences.sequences.
* WritersCannotDoMath: While at Dragonstone in the next season, Jon and Davos reveal that there are under 10,000 Northern fighters aligned with House Stark. That means thousands of soldiers of Northern houses who remained neutral during the Battle of the Bastards ended up joining Jon after Ramsay was defeated. Why they didn't end up joining Jon against the Boltons in the first place is anyone's guess.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Not YMMV.


* ElephantInTheLivingRoom: No one brings up the threat of the White Walkers during the parlay. Though Ramsay would most likely ignore the topic as mere superstition, their very existence is the reason why Jon has an army of Wildlings in the first place and why Lyanna Mormont pledged her house to House Stark.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ElephantInTheLivingRoom: No one brings up the threat of the White Walkers during the parlay. Though Ramsay would most likely ignore the topic as mere superstition, their very existence is the reason why Jon has an army of Wildlings in the first place and why House Mormont pledged themselves to House Stark.

to:

* ElephantInTheLivingRoom: No one brings up the threat of the White Walkers during the parlay. Though Ramsay would most likely ignore the topic as mere superstition, their very existence is the reason why Jon has an army of Wildlings in the first place and why House Lyanna Mormont pledged themselves her house to House Stark.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* ElephantInTheLivingRoom: No one brings up the threat of the White Walkers during the parlay. Though Ramsay would most likely ignore the topic as mere superstition, their very existence is the reason why Jon has an army of Wildlings in the first place and why House Mormont pledged themselves to House Stark.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:


* WinBackTheCrowd: After the negative reviews of the previous episode "No One", this episode was received infinitely better, with acclaim for both battle sequences.
* WhatAnIdiot:
** Jon riding off into the field and effectively [[LeeroyJenkins throwing any strategy to the wind]] was less than well received by some, especially since Sansa warned him that something like this would happen and he still allows himself to be baited by Ramsay. (This is also fairly out of character given Jon's previous battle experience and that in the past he has kept himself under control and restrained his grief when necessary).
*** Even before that, they grossly overlooked a potentially game-changing asset they had on their side: Wun Wun! Jon knows from personal experience how efficient of an artillery a giant with a suitable bow can be - as was seen during the siege of Castle Black, their reach easily covers the distance between the two armies. Had they given their resident giant one of those and a bunch of fitting arrows, he could have plastered the Bolton troops with heavy fire and effectively prevent Ramsay from pulling his game. Later on, Wun Wun would have been FAR more efficient had he not went into the fight completely unarmed. Just give him a club like the one he had in Hardhome and he would have easily been able to break the circle the Boltons had closed around them, in a way similar to how Sauron dealt with the troops of the Last Alliance. Furthermore, have Davos and his troops wait just a few minutes longer and they wouldn't have been within the circle but outside! Which would have either meant the Boltons had to divide their attention to both sides, i.e. finding themselves in a pincer attack or leave their backs open and thus allowing Davos and his men to cut through them. Long story short, had Jon and Davos chosen to actually use the assets they had to their best potential, they could have made good on their boast about being able to beat the Bolton army with the troops they had - not needing the Knights of the Vale and thus denying Littlefinger the possibility to gather even more power.
** Rickon doing absolutely nothing to make himself harder to hit. It didn't take long for fans to start making "Serpentine!" comments in reference to his poor decision, and clips of a [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKVgF2hA0Q8& very similar scene]] with better evasion techniques in the film ''Film/{{Apocalypto}}'' are now plastered with Rickon-related comments.
** Sansa not telling Jon about her letter to the Vale gets complaints from her motives not being clearly fleshed out. Did she not want to give Jon false faith on a plea she hadn't had answered yet? Did she not trust Jon to use the information properly? It's not clear in this episode, and it's easy to argue her silence contributed to the breakdown of the battle strategy almost as much as Jon's NotSoStoic moment.
** Ramsay at the end of the episode, deliberately. It's actually been stated by Benioff and Weiss that Ramsay has [[KarmaHoudini had his way]] for so long that he literally does not know how to process the fact that he's in danger. He wastes a perfectly good shot against a distracted Jon because he figures he'll find some way to weasel out of fighting him fairly. He's even laughing when Jon is done punching the Seven out of him.
----

to:

* WinBackTheCrowd: After the negative reviews of the previous episode "No One", this episode was received infinitely better, with acclaim for both battle sequences.
* WhatAnIdiot:
** Jon riding off into the field and effectively [[LeeroyJenkins throwing any strategy to the wind]] was less than well received by some, especially since Sansa warned him that something like this would happen and he still allows himself to be baited by Ramsay. (This is also fairly out of character given Jon's previous battle experience and that in the past he has kept himself under control and restrained his grief when necessary).
*** Even before that, they grossly overlooked a potentially game-changing asset they had on their side: Wun Wun! Jon knows from personal experience how efficient of an artillery a giant with a suitable bow can be - as was seen during the siege of Castle Black, their reach easily covers the distance between the two armies. Had they given their resident giant one of those and a bunch of fitting arrows, he could have plastered the Bolton troops with heavy fire and effectively prevent Ramsay from pulling his game. Later on, Wun Wun would have been FAR more efficient had he not went into the fight completely unarmed. Just give him a club like the one he had in Hardhome and he would have easily been able to break the circle the Boltons had closed around them, in a way similar to how Sauron dealt with the troops of the Last Alliance. Furthermore, have Davos and his troops wait just a few minutes longer and they wouldn't have been within the circle but outside! Which would have either meant the Boltons had to divide their attention to both sides, i.e. finding themselves in a pincer attack or leave their backs open and thus allowing Davos and his men to cut through them. Long story short, had Jon and Davos chosen to actually use the assets they had to their best potential, they could have made good on their boast about being able to beat the Bolton army with the troops they had - not needing the Knights of the Vale and thus denying Littlefinger the possibility to gather even more power.
** Rickon doing absolutely nothing to make himself harder to hit. It didn't take long for fans to start making "Serpentine!" comments in reference to his poor decision, and clips of a [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKVgF2hA0Q8& very similar scene]] with better evasion techniques in the film ''Film/{{Apocalypto}}'' are now plastered with Rickon-related comments.
** Sansa not telling Jon about her letter to the Vale gets complaints from her motives not being clearly fleshed out. Did she not want to give Jon false faith on a plea she hadn't had answered yet? Did she not trust Jon to use the information properly? It's not clear in this episode, and it's easy to argue her silence contributed to the breakdown of the battle strategy almost as much as Jon's NotSoStoic moment.
** Ramsay at the end of the episode, deliberately. It's actually been stated by Benioff and Weiss that Ramsay has [[KarmaHoudini had his way]] for so long that he literally does not know how to process the fact that he's in danger. He wastes a perfectly good shot against a distracted Jon because he figures he'll find some way to weasel out of fighting him fairly. He's even laughing when Jon is done punching the Seven out of him.
----
sequences.

Added: 1083

Changed: 1036

Removed: 204

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* SpecialEffectFailure:
** While the rest of the episode absolutely shines with gorgeous special effects, some shots of the dogs at the end of the episode, especially the final dog that lunges at Ramsay, are quite obviously CGI.

to:

* SpecialEffectFailure:
** While the rest
SpecialEffectFailure: Most of the episode absolutely shines with gorgeous special effects, some shots of the dogs at the end of the episode, especially the final dog that lunges at Ramsay, are quite obviously CGI.effects. However...



** Some shots of the dogs at the end of the episode, especially the final dog that lunges at Ramsay, are quite obviously CGI.



* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: Sansa complaining that Jon didn't ask for her opinion at the war council, even though she was present and could have contributed at any point, as she did at the first war council. Then when Jon does ask for his sister's opinion, Sansa offers no solutions other than [[{{CaptainObvious}} "we need more men and don't do what Ramsay wants"]] ... while not telling him that the Knights of the Vale are on their way. Her letting Jon know about the reinforcements could have completely changed the nature of the battle, giving Jon the option of waiting for or at least coordinating with the Vale (keeping the element of surprise, as Ramsay still wouldn't know they were coming) and may well have saved hundreds of their own men as the original army were almost depleted by the time the Vale forces showed up. Why Sansa withheld the information isn't clear, but the possibility she did it so she'd get the credit for the victory doesn't make her look any better.

to:

* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: UnintentionallyUnsympathetic:
**
Sansa complaining that Jon didn't ask for her opinion at the war council, even though she was present and could have contributed at any point, as she did at the first war council. Then when Jon does ask for his sister's opinion, Sansa offers no solutions other than [[{{CaptainObvious}} "we need more men and don't do what Ramsay wants"]] ... while not telling him that the Knights of the Vale are on their way. Her letting Jon know about the reinforcements could have completely changed the nature of the battle, giving Jon the option of waiting for or at least coordinating with the Vale (keeping the element of surprise, as Ramsay still wouldn't know they were coming) and may well have saved hundreds of their own men as the original army were almost depleted by the time the Vale forces showed up. Why Sansa withheld the information isn't clear, but the possibility she did it so she'd get the credit for the victory doesn't make her look any better.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:


** Fans have also noted that Ramsay's fate is similar to that of [[Disney/TheLionKing Scar]], due to being mauled and ripped apart by his once loyal hounds who turn on and kill him due to mistreatment.

to:

** Fans have also noted that Ramsay's fate is similar to that of [[Disney/TheLionKing [[WesternAnimation/TheLionKing1994 Scar]], due to being mauled and ripped apart by his once loyal hounds who turn on and kill him due to mistreatment.

Added: 82

Changed: 119

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Several memes have been spawned with either Ramsey or his hounds featured in various dog food ads or Ramsay's face featured on dog food packets.

to:

** Several memes have been spawned with either Ramsey or his hounds featured in various dog food ads or Ramsay's face featured on dog food packets. Some of those have Sophie Turner with Zunni (the dog that played Lady on the show and Turner adopted) on the packaging.


Added DiffLines:

** The SpecialEffectFailure of the rubber sword (see below) got turned into a GIF.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Recap pages are Spoilers Off


* FranchiseOriginalSin: [[spoiler:In retrospect, this episode already presents problems we would see two seasons later in "The Long Night," more specifically the fact that the battle depends on clever characters like Jon making stupid strategic mistakes. But the Battle of the Bastards was so visually impressive and exciting that at least in this case it was easy forgive this mistake.]]

to:

* FranchiseOriginalSin: [[spoiler:In In retrospect, this episode already presents problems we would see two seasons later in "The Long Night," more specifically the fact that the battle depends on clever characters like Jon making stupid strategic mistakes. But the Battle of the Bastards was so visually impressive and exciting that at least in this case it was easy forgive this mistake.]]

Top