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Might as well add this. Please add details where needed.
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* DracoInLeatherPants:
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* DracoInLeatherPants: When it comes to the debate surrounding which of the three (four if Yes-Man is included) major factions is best for the wasteland, this was inevitable:
** The NCR. While they're definitely nowhere near as bad as the Legion and the game itself is a bit biased in favor of them, people tend to paint them in a better light than they're portrayed as in-game. Their imperialist culture, the high degree of expansion to the point of being stretched thin, the Bitter Springs massacre, the corruption and incompetence, high taxes, etc, are often downplayed or conveniently goes unmentioned.
** The NCR. While they're definitely nowhere near as bad as the Legion and the game itself is a bit biased in favor of them, people tend to paint them in a better light than they're portrayed as in-game. Their imperialist culture, the high degree of expansion to the point of being stretched thin, the Bitter Springs massacre, the corruption and incompetence, high taxes, etc, are often downplayed or conveniently goes unmentioned.
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He didn't ignore them, but the entire thrust of the claim is that House considers it entirely reasonable to just let the Boomers keep going—a faction that relentlessly artillery-barrages anyone who gets close to their borders and whose main quest involves giving them access to a heavy bomber. The Boomers are an incredibly dangerous group, and have already bombed his people, and yet all endings involving them and House have him decide to leave them alone. Even if you fail Volaire and tell him they're not interested, he basically shrugs and says "eh, what can you do."
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** Mr. House is often seen in a much rosier light than the game actually depicts him, largely thanks to his surface-level charm and a clear, apparent vision, which ignores his cruelty, hypocrisy, and duplicity. There are two notable examples of this:
*** Fans attempt to justify his attempts to exterminate the Mojave Brotherhood by arguing that since the Brotherhood are described as harassing travelers and seizing technology in two endings, this makes House's attitude [[PragmaticVillainy one of ruthless-but-correct pragmatism]]. The latter reasoning when it comes to House's technology is only made clear in a WordOfGod statement, and this ignores not only that House does ''not'' demand the extermination of genuine raider groups like the Great Khans or Fiends, or similarly dangerous organizations like the Black Mountain's mutants, but that he lays out his reasons for why he wants the Brotherhood dead very simply and clearly: [[EvilIsPetty he hates them, personally]], finds them ridiculous and stupid, and doesn't want to rule a world where they're still around. He spends far more time ranting about their aesthetics and how dumb they are than about any danger they might pose or anything they've done to wrong him outside of them being powerful (in a single line during an optional, easy-to-miss conversation)
*** Fans attempt to justify his attempts to exterminate the Mojave Brotherhood by arguing that since the Brotherhood are described as harassing travelers and seizing technology in two endings, this makes House's attitude [[PragmaticVillainy one of ruthless-but-correct pragmatism]]. The latter reasoning when it comes to House's technology is only made clear in a WordOfGod statement, and this ignores not only that House does ''not'' demand the extermination of genuine raider groups like the Great Khans or Fiends, or similarly dangerous organizations like the Black Mountain's mutants, but that he lays out his reasons for why he wants the Brotherhood dead very simply and clearly: [[EvilIsPetty he hates them, personally]], finds them ridiculous and stupid, and doesn't want to rule a world where they're still around. He spends far more time ranting about their aesthetics and how dumb they are than about any danger they might pose or anything they've done to wrong him outside of them being powerful (in a single line during an optional, easy-to-miss conversation)
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** Mr. House is often seen in a much rosier light than the game actually depicts him, largely thanks to his surface-level charm and a clear, apparent vision, which ignores his cruelty, hypocrisy, and duplicity. There are two notable examples of this:
duplicity.
*** Fans attempt to justify his attempts to exterminate the Mojave Brotherhood by arguing that since the Brotherhood are described as harassing travelers and seizing technology in two endings, this makes House's attitude [[PragmaticVillainy one of ruthless-but-correct pragmatism]]. The latter reasoning when it comes to House's technology is only made clear in a WordOfGod statement, and this ignores not only that House does ''not'' demand the extermination of genuine raider groups like the Great Khans or Fiends, or similarly dangerous organizations like the Boomers or Black Mountain's mutants, but that he lays out his reasons for why he wants the Brotherhood dead very simply and clearly: [[EvilIsPetty he hates them, personally]], finds them ridiculous and stupid, and doesn't want to rule a world where they're still around. He spends far more time ranting about their aesthetics and how dumb they are than about any danger they might pose or anything they've done to wrong him outside of them being powerful (in a single line during an optional, easy-to-missconversation)conversation). In that light, his total dismissal of the idea that they might be willing to ally or make peace with him becomes rather suspect, especially given that the Brotherhood can happily side with a group that wiped out half their soldiers.
*** Fans attempt to justify his attempts to exterminate the Mojave Brotherhood by arguing that since the Brotherhood are described as harassing travelers and seizing technology in two endings, this makes House's attitude [[PragmaticVillainy one of ruthless-but-correct pragmatism]]. The latter reasoning when it comes to House's technology is only made clear in a WordOfGod statement, and this ignores not only that House does ''not'' demand the extermination of genuine raider groups like the Great Khans or Fiends, or similarly dangerous organizations like the Boomers or Black Mountain's mutants, but that he lays out his reasons for why he wants the Brotherhood dead very simply and clearly: [[EvilIsPetty he hates them, personally]], finds them ridiculous and stupid, and doesn't want to rule a world where they're still around. He spends far more time ranting about their aesthetics and how dumb they are than about any danger they might pose or anything they've done to wrong him outside of them being powerful (in a single line during an optional, easy-to-miss
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fix
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*** Another example is the fact that he will straight-up exterminate Kings in Freeside, one of the nicest factions in the game, in all but one of his endings[[note]]which involves the Kings launching attacks on NCR soldiers and innocent citizens in the area, mind you[[/note]] just because [[DisproportionateRetribution they either signed a peace treaty with the NCR]] or were simply [[ControlFreak in his way of expanding territory]], justifying the former as the Kings colluding with a foreign invader.
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*** Another example is the fact that he will straight-up exterminate the Kings in Freeside, one of the nicest factions in the game, in all but one of his endings[[note]]which involves the Kings launching attacks on NCR soldiers and innocent citizens in the area, mind you[[/note]] just because [[DisproportionateRetribution they either signed a peace treaty with the NCR]] or were simply [[ControlFreak in his way of expanding territory]], justifying the former as the Kings colluding with a foreign invader.
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One of his first missions is to ask for the support of the boomers or their elimination as a threat, so it is not as if he ignored them.
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*** Fans attempt to justify his attempts to exterminate the Mojave Brotherhood by arguing that since the Brotherhood are described as harassing travelers and seizing technology in two endings, this makes House's attitude [[PragmaticVillainy one of ruthless-but-correct pragmatism]]. The latter reasoning when it comes to House's technology is only made clear in a WordOfGod statement, and this ignores not only that House does ''not'' demand the extermination of genuine raider groups like the Great Khans or Fiends, or similarly dangerous organizations like the Boomers or Black Mountain's mutants, but that he lays out his reasons for why he wants the Brotherhood dead very simply and clearly: [[EvilIsPetty he hates them, personally]], finds them ridiculous and stupid, and doesn't want to rule a world where they're still around. He spends far more time ranting about their aesthetics and how dumb they are than about any danger they might pose or anything they've done to wrong him outside of them being powerful (in a single line during an optional, easy-to-miss conversation)
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*** Fans attempt to justify his attempts to exterminate the Mojave Brotherhood by arguing that since the Brotherhood are described as harassing travelers and seizing technology in two endings, this makes House's attitude [[PragmaticVillainy one of ruthless-but-correct pragmatism]]. The latter reasoning when it comes to House's technology is only made clear in a WordOfGod statement, and this ignores not only that House does ''not'' demand the extermination of genuine raider groups like the Great Khans or Fiends, or similarly dangerous organizations like the Boomers or Black Mountain's mutants, but that he lays out his reasons for why he wants the Brotherhood dead very simply and clearly: [[EvilIsPetty he hates them, personally]], finds them ridiculous and stupid, and doesn't want to rule a world where they're still around. He spends far more time ranting about their aesthetics and how dumb they are than about any danger they might pose or anything they've done to wrong him outside of them being powerful (in a single line during an optional, easy-to-miss conversation)
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Changed line(s) 108 (click to see context) from:
*** Fans attempt to justify his attempts to exterminate the Mojave Brotherhood by arguing that since the Brotherhood are described as harassing travelers and seizing technology in two endings, this makes House's attitude [[PragmaticVillainy one of ruthless-but-correct pragmatism]]. The latter reasoning when it comes to House's technology is only made clear in a WordOfGod statement, and this ignores not only that House does ''not'' demand the extermination of genuine raider groups like the Great Khans or Fiends, or similarly dangerous organizations like the Boomers or Black Mountain's mutants, but that he lays out his reasons for why he wants the Brotherhood dead very simply and clearly: [[EvilIsPetty he hates them, personally]], finds them ridiculous and stupid, and doesn't want to rule a world where they're still around. He spends far more time ranting about their aesthetics and how dumb they are than about any danger they might pose or anything they've done to wrong him.
to:
*** Fans attempt to justify his attempts to exterminate the Mojave Brotherhood by arguing that since the Brotherhood are described as harassing travelers and seizing technology in two endings, this makes House's attitude [[PragmaticVillainy one of ruthless-but-correct pragmatism]]. The latter reasoning when it comes to House's technology is only made clear in a WordOfGod statement, and this ignores not only that House does ''not'' demand the extermination of genuine raider groups like the Great Khans or Fiends, or similarly dangerous organizations like the Boomers or Black Mountain's mutants, but that he lays out his reasons for why he wants the Brotherhood dead very simply and clearly: [[EvilIsPetty he hates them, personally]], finds them ridiculous and stupid, and doesn't want to rule a world where they're still around. He spends far more time ranting about their aesthetics and how dumb they are than about any danger they might pose or anything they've done to wrong him.him outside of them being powerful (in a single line during an optional, easy-to-miss conversation)
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Changed line(s) 108 (click to see context) from:
*** Fans attempt to justify his attempts to exterminate the Mojave Brotherhood by arguing that since the Brotherhood are described as harassing travelers and seizing technology in two endings, this makes House's attitude [[PragmaticVillainy one of ruthless-but-correct pragmatism]]. The latter reasoning when it comes to House's technology is only made clear in a WordOfGod statement, and this ignores not only that House does ''not'' demand the extermination of genuine raider groups like the Great Khans or Fiends, or similarly dangerous organizations like the Boomers or Black Mountain's mutants, but that he lays out his reasons for why he wants the Brotherhood dead very simply and clearly: [[EvilIsPetty he hates them, personally]], finds them ridiculous and stupid, and doesn't want to rule a world where they're still around.
to:
*** Fans attempt to justify his attempts to exterminate the Mojave Brotherhood by arguing that since the Brotherhood are described as harassing travelers and seizing technology in two endings, this makes House's attitude [[PragmaticVillainy one of ruthless-but-correct pragmatism]]. The latter reasoning when it comes to House's technology is only made clear in a WordOfGod statement, and this ignores not only that House does ''not'' demand the extermination of genuine raider groups like the Great Khans or Fiends, or similarly dangerous organizations like the Boomers or Black Mountain's mutants, but that he lays out his reasons for why he wants the Brotherhood dead very simply and clearly: [[EvilIsPetty he hates them, personally]], finds them ridiculous and stupid, and doesn't want to rule a world where they're still around. He spends far more time ranting about their aesthetics and how dumb they are than about any danger they might pose or anything they've done to wrong him.
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Changed line(s) 107 (click to see context) from:
** Mr. House is often seen in a much rosier light than the game actually depicts him, largely thanks to his surface-level charm and a clear, apparent vision, which ignores his cruelty, hypocrisy, and duplicity. A notable example of this is fans attempting to justify his attempts to exterminate the Mojave Brotherhood, arguing that since the Brotherhood are described as harassing travelers and seizing technology in two endings, this makes House's attitude [[PragmaticVillainy one of ruthless-but-correct pragmatism]]. This ignores not only that House does ''not'' demand the extermination of genuine raider groups like the Great Khans or Fiends, or similarly dangerous organizations like the Boomers or Black Mountain's mutants, but that he lays out his reasons for why he wants the Brotherhood dead very simply and clearly: [[EvilIsPetty he hates them, personally]], finds them ridiculous and stupid, and doesn't want to rule a world where they're still around.
to:
** Mr. House is often seen in a much rosier light than the game actually depicts him, largely thanks to his surface-level charm and a clear, apparent vision, which ignores his cruelty, hypocrisy, and duplicity. A There are two notable example examples of this is fans attempting this:
*** Fans attempt to justify his attempts to exterminate the MojaveBrotherhood, Brotherhood by arguing that since the Brotherhood are described as harassing travelers and seizing technology in two endings, this makes House's attitude [[PragmaticVillainy one of ruthless-but-correct pragmatism]]. This The latter reasoning when it comes to House's technology is only made clear in a WordOfGod statement, and this ignores not only that House does ''not'' demand the extermination of genuine raider groups like the Great Khans or Fiends, or similarly dangerous organizations like the Boomers or Black Mountain's mutants, but that he lays out his reasons for why he wants the Brotherhood dead very simply and clearly: [[EvilIsPetty he hates them, personally]], finds them ridiculous and stupid, and doesn't want to rule a world where they're still around. around.
*** Another example is the fact that he will straight-up exterminate Kings in Freeside, one of the nicest factions in the game, in all but one of his endings[[note]]which involves the Kings launching attacks on NCR soldiers and innocent citizens in the area, mind you[[/note]] just because [[DisproportionateRetribution they either signed a peace treaty with the NCR]] or were simply [[ControlFreak in his way of expanding territory]], justifying the former as the Kings colluding with a foreign invader.
*** Fans attempt to justify his attempts to exterminate the Mojave
*** Another example is the fact that he will straight-up exterminate Kings in Freeside, one of the nicest factions in the game, in all but one of his endings[[note]]which involves the Kings launching attacks on NCR soldiers and innocent citizens in the area, mind you[[/note]] just because [[DisproportionateRetribution they either signed a peace treaty with the NCR]] or were simply [[ControlFreak in his way of expanding territory]], justifying the former as the Kings colluding with a foreign invader.
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** Mr. House watched [[WebAnimation/SkibidiToiletSeries Skibidi Toilet]] [[labelnote:Explanation]]Killing Mr. House reveals he was born in 2020. Skibidi Toilet became insanely popular with kids when it released a few years later, meaning if the ''Fallout'' world was like the real world, Mr. House could've watched the videos in his childhood.[[/labelnote]]
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** Mr. House is often seen in a much rosier light than the game actually depicts him, largely thanks to his surface-level charm and a clear, apparent vision, which ignores his cruelty, hypocrisy, and duplicity. A notable example of this is fans attempting to justify his attempts to exterminate the Mojave Brotherhood, arguing that since the Brotherhood are described as harassing travelers and seizing technology in two endings, this makes House's attitude [[PragmaticVillainy one of ruthless-but-correct pragmatism]]. This ignores not only that House does ''not'' demand the extermination of genuine raider groups like the Great Khans or Fiends, or similarly dangerous organizations like the Boomers or Black Mountain's mutants, but that he lays out his reasons for why he wants the Brotherhood dead very simply and clearly: [[EvilIsPetty he hates them, personally]], finds them ridiculous and stupid, and doesn't want to rule a world where they're still around.
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Even if it doesn't violate the Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgement, the war is still ongoing. Per Harsher In Hindsight main page, it can't be added until it's over.
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** By the same token, the Russian army in the war in Ukraine in the early 2020s became infamous for "meat wave assults," squads of poorly-equipped infantry hopped up on a right-wing personality cult hurled into battle against Ukrainians who usually have modern military equipment. But instead of the decadent forces of the corrupt and democratic West instantly shattering in the face of these displays of authoritarian discipline despite knowing [[RapePillageAndBurn the fate that awaits them]], as tends to happen when the Legion charges the NCR, in the Ukraine the poor saps just get machine-gunned to death. (It's even worse in-game where the NCR allegedly ''outnumbers'' the Legion in these engagements, and the Legionnaires often don't even have guns.)
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Joshua Graham is very important to the Honest Hearts DLC so he isn't a minor npc.
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* DesignatedVillain: The Garret Twins. In-game, they're referred to as psychopaths and Julie Farkas even bunches them in with the Van Graffs (other characters like Ralph describe them in milder terms). However, aside from ordering the death of a backstabbing bounty hunter, none of their actions come across as remotely evil. They're certainly pragmatic and are only convinced to work with the Followers because it means upgrading their distilleries, but they treat their employees well, even the prostitutes, are forthright in their dealings, attempt to call in their debts in a non-lethal fashion, and are second only to the Tops in terms of all-around decency as a casino.
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* DesignatedVillain: The Garret Twins. In-game, they're referred to as psychopaths and Julie Farkas even bunches them in with the Van Graffs (other characters like Ralph describe them in milder terms). However, aside from ordering the death of a backstabbing bounty hunter, none of their actions come across as remotely evil. They're certainly pragmatic and are only convinced to work with the Followers because it means upgrading their distilleries, but they treat their employees well, even the prostitutes, are forthright in their dealings, attempt to call in their debts in a non-lethal fashion, and are second only to the Tops in terms of all-around decency as a casino. They also refuse to work with the Courier if their reputation with Freeside is bad, and they make a point to be furious if the player kills any of the people who owe them debts, making it strange the game treats them as bad as many of the other groups in the Strip and Freeside area.
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** Joshua Graham is a background character in the main game and a supporting character in a single DLC, yet he's arguably ''the'' most famous character out of the entire game. As a devout Christian with a DarkAndTroubledPast and a refreshingly sympathetic and nuanced portrayal, many of his lines work extremely well as inspirational quotes, with one of which ("I survived because the fire inside burned brighter than the fire around me.") even transcending the game to become a popular quote in real-life. Anecdotally, some players have even been inspired to become religious by him.
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** One of the endings for the Great Khans is to convince them to [[ScrewThisImOuttaHere leave the Mojave]], leading to them to settle in Wyoming and carving out a powerful new territory. This is portrayed as a pretty positive and happy ending for them after how much they've endured, but the fact they basically took over what were very likely areas people were living in is never referenced or acknowledged, despite being one of the things that made them hate the NCR, making it hard to feel like it is a good ending for them when you consider the Khans behavior.
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** One of the endings for the Great Khans is to convince them to [[ScrewThisImOuttaHere leave the Mojave]], leading to them to settle in Wyoming and carving out a powerful new territory. This is portrayed as a pretty positive and happy ending for them after how much they've endured, but the fact they basically took are taking over what were very likely areas land that is, in all likelihood, already settled by people were living in is never referenced or acknowledged, despite being one of the things that made them hate the NCR, making it hard to feel like it is a good ending for them when you consider the Khans behavior.behavior. Even being charitable and assuming they don't force anyone to join them, the fact they are not at all implied to have change their behavior leaves it hard to think they are going to be better off or treat anyone they find well.
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*** Lonesome Road is especially hit hard by the WriterOnBoard accusations, as it gives the Courier some extra backstory. Does it enrich the Courier as a character and does it make his interactions with Ulysses more meaningful? Or is it a forced AssPull that takes away agency from the player, especially how the only NPC who references it also refuses any attempt to defend yourself from it?
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*** Lonesome Road is especially hit hard by the WriterOnBoard accusations, as it gives the Courier some extra backstory. Does it enrich the Courier as a character and does it make his their interactions with Ulysses more meaningful? Or is it a forced AssPull that takes away agency from the player, especially how the only NPC who references it also refuses any attempt to defend yourself from it?
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** If you have the dlcs installed, Legate Lanius becomes this since you will have a bunch of Infinity+1 weapons, plus Lanius only scales up to level 30, so you will potentially have a 20 level advantage.
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* FanNickname: Some people who hate the Legion refer to them as "cosplayers," in reference to the fact that they're just dressing up as Roman Legionnaires.
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* FanNickname: Some people who hate the Legion refer to them as "cosplayers," in reference to the fact that they're just dressing up as Roman Legionnaires.Legionnaires, or "furries" over them wearing fur pelts and heads.
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* HypeBacklash: Retroactively thanks to its reputation in the fanbase as the best 3D installment in the franchise. There are many fans that love/enjoy ''VideoGame/Fallout3'' and/or ''VideoGame/Fallout4'' who tried ''New Vegas'' and either didn't find the game's writing and factions as engaging as they were told and found the game SoOkayItsAverage or downright hated the game for its less-open setting, slow first hours and more emphasis on playing politics with the big three factions when they just wanted to explore the Mojave, kill monsters and complete sidequests which was the design philosophy that made ''VideoGame/Fallout3'' and ''VideoGame/Fallout4'' so popular and the reason they love the franchise. This division only fueled the FandomRivalry between the old-school fans and the Bethesda fans.
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* HypeBacklash: Retroactively thanks to its reputation in the fanbase as the best 3D installment in the franchise. There are many fans that love/enjoy ''VideoGame/Fallout3'' and/or ''VideoGame/Fallout4'' who tried ''New Vegas'' and either didn't find the game's writing and factions as engaging as they were told and found the game SoOkayItsAverage or downright hated the game for its less-open setting, slow first hours and more emphasis on playing politics with the big three factions when they just wanted to explore the Mojave, kill monsters and complete sidequests which was the design philosophy that made ''VideoGame/Fallout3'' and ''VideoGame/Fallout4'' so popular and the reason they love the franchise. This division only fueled the FandomRivalry inter-FandomRivalry between the old-school fans and the Bethesda fans.fans, made even worse after ''Series/Fallout2024'' was released.
