History YMMV / DonnyCatesVenom

--> '''Eddie:''' But I wanted to say thank you. To all of you. I know things have been... insane. That I haven't always been at my best... But, for good or for bad, you've seen something in me that I can't see in myself. And you've stuck with me. So. Yeah... Thank you.

* SugarWiki/HeartwarmingMoments: The symbiote telling Eddie they love him. [[spoiler:Even if he cannot hear them.]]

** Dylan calls out Sleeper at a point for killing Tel-Kar, treating the act as entirely in the wrong. Whilst Dylan thinking this, especially with him being a child, is very understandable...some readers have found that the narrative itself agreeing with Dylan is not so much. Pointing out that not only did Tel-Kar enslave the Venom Symbiote, advocate enslaving symbiotes and also make attempts to kill Sleeper and Sleeper’s parents, but that he also tried to commit genocide twice - against both skrulls and humanity - being killed during his second attempt. As such, those readers are inclined to look on Sleeper doing so quite sympathetically given the circumstances.

** With Absolute Carnage tie ins, [[spoiler: Shriek]] can potentially be added to the growing list of fridged women if she isn't instead now a fused enity. And at that, for the sake of Carnage’s goal in a very similar way as to how [[spoiler: Scorn was fridged]] too.
** Again with a Carnage tie-in, the run has another woman brought in with no personal character development, to just be violently killed very quickly after, this time [[spoiler: Alejandra Jones, a ComicBook/GhostRider]]. To make matters worse, not only was she herself violently fridged [[spoiler: but the village she came to swear to defend, thanks to ongoing character development in other lines, also met such a fate.]] Meaning an achievement and culminations of her work was also nullified too.
** There appears to be a twisted RunningGag with these tie-ins, as [[spoiler:Patricia Robertson]] has also been killed by Carnage. At least in this case a fight was actually had, but [[spoiler:Patricia spent almost the entirety of her appearance [[FightingFromTheInside fighting Carnage's and the Scream symbiote's influences]]]] only to be murdered by the end of it all. Even worse, she didn't even get any character development at all aside from a brief parallel between herself and Brock post-''ComicBook/SpiderIsland''. This feels particularly outlandish since [[WhatHappenedToTheMouse she dropped off the map for over a decade]] [[spoiler:once the 2003 ''Venom'' series was cut short.]]

** There appears to be a twisted RunningGag with these tie-ins, as [[spoiler:Patricia Robertson]] has also been killed by Carnage. At least in this case a fight was actually had, but [[spoiler:Patricia spent almost the entirety of her appearance [[FightingFromTheInside fighting Carnage's and the Scream symbiote's influences]]]] only to be murdered by the end of it all. Even worse, she didn't even get any character development at all aside from a brief parallel between herself and Brock post-''ComicBook/SpiderIsland''. This feels particularly outlandish since [[WhatHappenedToTheMouse she dropped off the map for over a decade]] [[spoiler:once the 2003 ''Venom'' series was cut short,]] gets roughly three pages of exposition that aren't about fighting off symbiotic influences, [[spoiler:and by the end of it feels like a prop [[TakeUpMySword to let Andi Benton become the new Scream.]]]]

** Again with a Carnage tie-in, the run has another woman brought in with no personal character development, to just be violently killed very quickly after, this time [[spoiler: Alejandra Jones, a ghost rider]]. To make matters worse, not only was she herself violently fridged [[spoiler: but the village she came to swear to defend, thanks to ongoing character development in other lines, also met such a fate.]] Meaning an achievement and culminations of her work was also nullified too.

* FridgeHorror: A massive one for any and all female symbiote hosts, especially ones who had their symbiote transported to them by male hosts which includes ‘’teenage charges’’ such as Jubulile and Andi, with the reveal of [[spoiler: the circumstances of Anne’s pregnancy, raising the questions of if while they escaped, these hosts might be or have been at risk of such a forced pregnancy too]].

** With Absolute Carnage tie ins, [[spoiler: Shriek]] can now be added to the growing list of fridged women. And at that, for the sake of Carnage’s goal in a very similar way as to how [[spoiler: Scorn was fridged]] too.

** Again with a Carnage tie-in, the run has another woman brought in with no personal character development, to just be violently killed very quickly after, this time [[spoiler: Alejandra Jones, a ghost rider]].

** There’s also those who don’t ship it romantically who ''still'' dislike the numerous retcons to the story and the recycled symbiote leaving Eddie plot. This ''especially'' goes for longer-standing fans of the franchise seeing certain materials they read being altered [[labelnote: Note]]To be specific, Eddie's sister being revealed to be the product of FakeMemories and his ''initial'' cancer diagnosis being faked by the Symbiote.[[/labelnote]], to the extent that one reviewer called it the “One More Day of Venom”. Others are fine with the retcons since it allowed for Venom: Dark Origin to be completely erased from continuity and are excited to see what Donny does with Eddie being a father, to a human child this time.
** Opinions are split on the cosmic level of the story -- and with those who like cosmic, opinions are split on how well it’s done here.

* BrokenBase: To the extent that a VocalMinority have given the author death threats. That minority aside, disagreements include-

** There’s also those who don’t ship it romantically who ''still'' dislike the numerous retcons to the story and the recycled symbiote leaving Eddie plot. This ''especially'' goes for longer-standing fans of the franchise seeing certain materials they read being altered [[labelnote: Note]]To be specific, Eddie's sister being revealed to be the product of FakeMemories and his ''initial'' cancer diagnosis being faked by the Symbiote.[[/labelnote]], to the extent that one reviewer called it the “One More Day of Venom”. Others are fine with the retcons since it allowed for Venom: Dark Origin to be completely erased from continuity and are excited to see what Donny does with Eddie being a father.

* ContinuityLockOut: The tendency for important continuity details and snarls to sometimes be clarified on Twitter by the author and not in comic, such as [[spoiler:on Eddie’s cancer and the Carnag Symbiote being dead]] can be seen as this. Not everyone checks Twitter and would like the clarifications to be in-comic.

* ContinuityLockOut: The tendency for important continuity details and snarls to sometimes be clarified on Twitter by the author and not in comic, such as [[spoiler:on Eddie’s cancer]] can be seen as this. Not everyone checks Twitter and would like the clarifications to be in-comic.

* BrokenBase: To the extent that a VocalMinority have given the author death threats.

* BrokenBase:
** Fans that ship the Venom symbiote and Eddie have expressed distaste for Cates' run, as they see Cates going out of his way to make Brock and the symbiote's relationship out to be incredibly toxic, including using retcons to get this point across -- which is something fans object to, as after Mike Costa's run and the ''Venom'' movie, this relationship was seen as a stand-in for an LGBT pairing and for a VocalMinority it had gotten so bad that only a few days after #11 dropped Cates reported receiving death threats.. Others, however, like this depiction, as the relationship has always been some level of emotionally abusive and they enjoy Cates acknowledging this and exploring it.

** Fans that ship the Venom symbiote and Eddie have expressed distaste for Cates' run, as they see Cates going out of his way to make Brock and the symbiote's relationship out to be incredibly toxic, including using retcons to get this point across -- which is something fans object to, as after Mike Costa's run and the ''Venom'' movie, this relationship was seen as a stand-in for an LGBT pairing. Others, however, like this depiction, as the relationship has always been some level of emotionally abusive and they enjoy Cates acknowledging this and exploring it.
%%** There’s also those who don’t ship it romantically who ''still'' dislike the numerous retcons to the story. This ''especially'' goes for longer-standing fans of the franchise seeing certain materials they read being altered [[labelnote: Note]]To be specific, Eddie's sister being revealed to be the product of FakeMemories and his ''initial'' cancer diagnosis being faked by the Symbiote.[[/labelnote]], to the extent that one reviewer called it the “One More Day of Venom”, and for a VocalMinority it had gotten so bad that only a few days after #11 dropped Cates reported receiving death threats.

** There’s also those who don’t ship it romantically who ''still'' dislike the numerous retcons to the story. This ''especially'' goes for longer-standing fans of the franchise seeing certain materials they read being altered [[labelnote: Note]]To be specific, Eddie's sister being revealed to be the product of FakeMemories and his ''initial'' cancer diagnosis being faked by the Symbiote.[[/labelnote]], to the extent that one reviewer called it the “One More Day of Venom”, and for a VocalMinority it had gotten so bad that only a few days after #11 dropped Cates reported receiving death threats.

* UnintentionallySympathetic: At the end of issue 6, Venom and the Rex team up to kill the Grendal symbiote, killing Rex and nearly killing both Eddie and the Venom symbiote. Before they both loses consciousness, the symbiote told Eddie that it loves him, many fans found this moment heartwarming but in an interview with Cates, it is stated it was meant to be seen as the symbiote being possessive of Eddie, causing fans to question the intentions of the Venom symbiote. The story reveals that the symbiote has been manipulating Eddie this entire time, altering his memories to think he had relatives that died of cancer and make him believe to have it to so he would be dependent on it and that supposedly it did something to Anne that is related to the existence of Dylan and what drove her crazy to the point of suicide. A lot of fans have been disgusted by this and it makes no sense for symbiote's character, in the story it is stated that it did all of this because of its nature [[labelnote:Explanation]]which is also questioned as not a single symbiote, either the parasitic symbiotes from Planets of the Symbiotes that killed their host or the Agent of the Cosmos that only partner with their hosts have ever shown being possessive or manipulative.[[/labelnote]] and fans lamented how the symbiote has been treated, from being mind-controlled by Knull or supposedly brain dead yet its still antagonized for just existing. The story does show the symbiote trying to fix its mistakes but fans still think that none of this should have happened in the first place.
* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: On the other side, Eddie Brock has been pointed as this, the entire story has painted him as a victim of everything and very often he ends up crying or lamenting everything, but fans found this straight up pathetic for how much of it feels like the writer is self-inserting himself on Eddie (which doesn't seem to be a secret on Cates' part) and how the narrative seems to try to lay the blame of all of his mistakes on the symbiote, instead of continueing to take responsibility for himself and learning from it. His bombastic and charming personality from before is all gone and in its place, it just a man that laments everything that happens to him but does nothing about it. He can't even fight for himself anymore, as more often he is tied up in a chair and letting other characters scream in his face.

* SurprisinglyImprovedSequel: The series follows up [[ComicBook/MikeCostasVenom Mike Costa's run]], which was generally considered to be SoOkayItsAverage; and also uses Eddie Brock rather than Flash Thompson, who had only recently died. Not only that, but it was also worried the series would be too much of a tie-in to the film. Instead, the run so far is considered one of the best Venom series (to the point that it was joked that this run is better than DC's ''ComicBook/{{Watchmen}}'').

* UnintentionallySympathetic: At the end of issue 6, the symbiote an Eddie team up to kill the Grendal symbiote, nearly killing them both and before they lost consciousness, the symbiote told Eddie that it loves him, many fans found this moment heartwarming but in an interview with Cates, is stated it was meant to be seen as the symbiote being possessive of Eddie, causing fans questioning the intentions. The story reveals that the symbiote has been manipulating Eddie this entire time, altering his memories to think he had relatives that died of cancer and make him believe to have it to so he would be dependent on it and that supposedly it did something to Anne that is related to the existence of Dylan and what drive her crazy to the point of suicide. A lot of fans has been disgusted by this and it made no sense for symbiote's character, the story stated that it did all this because of its nature [[labelnote:Explanation]]which is also questioned as not a single symbiote, either the parasite symbiotes from Planets of the Symbiotes that killed their host or the Agent of the Cosmos that only partner with their hosts has never shown being possessive or manipulative.[[/labelnote]] and fans lamented how the symbiote has been treated from being mind-controlled by Knull or braindead yet its still antagonized for just existing. The story does show the symbiote trying to fix its mistakes but fans still think that none of this should have happened in the first place.
* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: On the other side, Eddie Brock has been pointed as this, the entire story has painted him as a victim of everything and very often he end up crying or lamenting everything, but fans found this straight up pathetic for how much of it feels like the writer is self-inserting on Eddie (which doesn't seem to be a secret on Cates' part) and how the narrative seems to try switch blaming all his mistakes on the symbiote and everything else, instead of taking responsibility for himself and learning from it. His bombastic and charming personality from before is all gone and on its place, it just a man that lament everything that happens to him but does nothing about it. He can't even fight for himself anymore, as more often he is tied up in a chair and letting other characters scream on his face.

* CharacterRerailment: When Cullen Bunn took over to write the ''War of the Realms'' tie-in, he had Eddie enjoying killing the invaders to release his rage, which was dialed up to eleven by an artificial symbiote he got from the dark elves. Many found this Eddie far more likable and in-character than Cates' iteration because it has Eddie returning to his roots with him being more competent by himself, wanting to save innocents from the monsters even when he was outmatched and having him come to terms with realization that his rage and violent impulses were all his own and admitting that his rage and fixation on past traumas alienated him from his friends and family; finally acknowledging his flaws taking and responsibility for himself.

* CharacterRerailment: When Cullen Bunn took over to write the ''War of the Realms'' tie-in, he had Eddie enjoying killing the invaders to release his rage, which was dialed up to eleven by an artificial symbiote he got from the dark elves. Many found this Eddie far more likable and in-character than Cates' iteration because it has Eddie finally returning to his roots with him being more competent by himself, wanting to save innocents from the monsters even when he was outmatched, and having him come to terms with realization that his rage and violent impulses corrupted the symbiote just as much -- if not more -- than its predatory urges corrupted him, and admitting that his rage and fixation on past traumas alienated him from his friends and family; finally acknowledging his flaws taking and responsibility for himself.

* UnintentionallySympathetic: At the end of issue 6, the symbiote an Eddie team up to kill the Grendal symbiote, nearly killing them both and before they lost consciousness, the symbiote told Eddie that it loves him, many fans found this moment heartwarming but in an interview with Cates, is stated it was meant to be seen as the symbiote being possessive of Eddie, causing fans questioning the intentions. The story reveals that the symbiote has been manipulating Eddie this entire time, altering his memories to think he had relatives that died of cancer and make him believe to have it to so he would be dependent on it and that supposedly it did something to Anne that is related to the existence of Dylan and what drive her crazy to the point of suicide. A lot of fans has been disgusted by this and it made no sense for symbiote's character, the story stated that it did all this because of its nature [[labelnote:Explanation]]which as also questioned as not a single symbiote, either the parasite symbiotes from Planets of the Symbiotes that killed their host or the Agent of the Cosmos that only partner with their hosts has never shown being possessive or manipulative.[[/labelnote]] and fans lamented how the symbiote has been treated from being mind-controlled by Knull or braindead yet its still antagonized for just existing. The story does show the symbiote trying to fix its mistakes but fans still think that none of this should have happened in the first place.

* CharacterRerailment: When Cullen Bunn come along to write the ''War of the Realms'' tie-in, he has Eddie enjoying killing the invaders to release his rage, which is dialed up to eleven by an artificial symbiote he got from the dark elves. Many found this Eddie far more likable and in-character than Cates' iteration because it has Eddie finally returning to his roots with him being more competent by himself, wanting to save innocents from the monsters even when he was outmatched, and having him come to terms with realization that his rage and violent impulses corrupted the symbiote just as much -- if not more -- than its predatory urges corrupted him, and admitting that his rage and fixation on past traumas alienated him from his friends and family; finally acknowledging his flaws taking and responsibility for himself.

* ContinuityLockOut: The tendency for important continuity details and snarls to sometimes be clarified on Twitter by the author and not in comic, such as [[spoiler: on Eddie’s cancer]] can be seen as this. Not everyone checks Twitter and would like the clarifications to be in-comic.

** CharacterRerailment: And on an ironic case, when Cullen Bunn come along to write the War of the Realms tie-in, he has Eddie enjoying killing the invaders to release his rage, many found this Eddie far more likable and in-character because it has Eddie finally returning to his roots with he being more competent by himself, wanting to save innocents from the monsters even when he was outmatched and showing that all the rage and violent impulses were all his and not the symbiote changing him, and admitting that all his own rage is what alienated himself from his friends and family, finally acknowledging his flaws taking and responsibility for himself.

** CharacterRerailment: And on an ironic case, when Cullen Bunn come along to write the War of the Realms tie-in, he has Eddie enjoying killing the invaders to release his rage, many found this Eddie far more likable and in-character because it has Eddie finally returning to his roots with he being more competent by himself, wanting to save innocents from the monsters even when he was outmatched and showing that all the rage and violent impulses were all his and not the symbiote changing him, and admitting that all his own rage is what alienated himself from his friends and family, finally acknowledging his flaws taking responsibility for himself.