History YMMV / AvengersEndgame

* [[EpilepticTrees/AvengersEndgame]]

* EpilepticTrees:
** The title itself, given the secrecy behind it, was the subject of a lot of speculation. Popular candidates for the movie's name included ''Avengers: ComicBook/TheInfinityGauntlet'',[[note]]which was {{Jossed}} shortly after the release of ''Infinity War''[[/note]] ''Avengers: [[ComicBook/TheInfinityCrusade Infinity Crusade]]'', [[note]]the name of the sequel to the original ''Infinity War'' comic[[/note]] ''Avengers: ComicBook/{{Secret Wars|1984}}'',[[note]]which the directors heavily implied was not the case when they mentioned a desire to adapt such a story in case Disney acquires Fox[[/note]] ''Avengers: [[ComicBook/SecretInvasion2008 Secret Invasion]]'', ''ComicBook/AvengersDisassembled'', ''ComicBook/AvengersForever'', [[note]]which the directors stated was the closest guess to what the actual title was, considering that Avengers Endgame was an actual guess at the time, however, this appears to have been misdirection in hindsight[[/note]] ''Avengers: ComicBook/{{Annihilation}}'', and, naturally, ''Avengers: Endgame''.[[note]]Ironically implied not to be the case at the time because the directors stated that the title of the fourth ''Avengers'' movie was not spoken in ''Infinity War''... [[LyingCreator which, of course, later turned out to actually be false.]][[/note]]
** The set photos showing an older Tony Stark and Scott Lang interacting with Steve Rogers as he appeared in ''Film/{{The Avengers|2012}}'', along with some other set photos showing characters in costumes that they wore earlier in the continuity, led to the theory that ''Avengers 4'' is a movie based around TimeTravel. Adding to this is that Creator/KevinFeige mentioned that the GrandFinale of ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'' ("[[Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS7E24AllGoodThings All Good Things...]]"), which prominently featured characters jumping through time, was a key influence on this story, along with set photos showing Scott interacting with Gamora and Nebula as they appeared in ''Film/GuardiansOfTheGalaxy2014''. Of course, Endgame ''did'' turn out to be a TimeTravel movie.
** The fact that (A) Clint returned as Ronin rather than Hawkeye, [[Series/Hawkeye2021 his future Disney Plus show was announced involving him training Kate Bishop]], and the fact that Clint begins the movie training with his daughter; (B) a casting call was leaked for baby twin boys who are believed be those of Scarlet and Vision; (C) Patriot was originally planned to appear in ''Black Panther'' before being cut due to the large cast; and (D) Cassie Lang has been aged up to a teenager (in line with her comics counterpart) has a number of people suspecting that a ''ComicBook/YoungAvengers'' movie is being set up by the MCU for Phase 4, starting from here. Like the Guardians of the Galaxy, [[UnexpectedCharacter they wouldn't exactly be expected]] compared to other big names with longer histories, seeing as they were only introduced in 2005. After the movie's actual release, the debut of Morgan Stark and the return of Harley Keener have added fuel to the fire.
*** [[https://screenrant.com/marvel-mcu-lgbtq-characters/ Then there's the confirmation that Phase 4 will include LGBTQ characters]] which added ''even more'' speculation -- Wiccan and Hulkling are among the most well-known of Marvel's gay superheroes. [[https://www.themarysue.com/marvel-phase-4-female-directors/ And the fact that Phase 4 will introduce more]] {{Legacy Character}}s, again fitting with the theme of Young Avengers. And then Feige outright stated that Cassie was introduced as a child in the ''Ant-Man'' movies to "[[https://heroichollywood.com/kevin-feige-young-avengers-marvel-future/ plant seeds]]" for the future. By this point, ''Young Avengers'' fans are really hoping for there to finally be a young superhero team movie that's never been made before.
** There's also the theory that [[http://variety.com/2018/film/news/marvel-class-photo-10th-anniversary-celebration-1202692301/ the day that Marvel took the "class photo"]] was the day that they filmed the big sequence with forty characters that has been confirmed to appear in this film. The actual movie casts a very dark shadow over this, as the only scene that most likely involved all these actors, without having to green-screen them together like a BigBadassBattleSequence would need, is the funeral of Tony Stark.
** As his actor was allegedly been spotted on set, the acquisition of Fox by Disney granting Marvel the ''X-Men'' film rights, and the theories that the movie will involve time travel, many believe that Pietro Maximoff/Quicksilver will be brought back to the MCU after his death in ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron''. Sadly, this turned out to not be the case, though given that the movie involved TimeTravel, this would not have been a bad guess if one of the places the Avengers returned to were the Battle of Sokovia.
** Some believe that the franchise's new status quo will revolve around an older Cassie Lang rebuilding the world years in the future, with any reversals to Thanos wiping out half of the universe's life being fairly minor. It turned out to be incorrect, but the movie does keep an older Cassie Lang around that leaves her role in future movies open for exploration.
** A contingent also suspect that with the reshoots taking place, and neither it nor any concept art seen so far showing anything past-related, that the idea of TimeTravel being part of the plot was [[TrollingCreator a smokescreen intentionally made to fool the audience]] and cover the ''real'' plot of the movie, the bulk of which filmed in reshoots rather than the original photography. Adding to the theory, WordOfGod confirms they've filmed fake scenes specifically to provide fake spoilers and keep the film under wraps.
** The fact that Clint will be appearing not as Hawkeye but as Ronin has led ''many'' fans to assume that his wife and kids were killed in the Snapture. This is confirmed in the opening scene of the film.
** After Chris Evans posted [[https://twitter.com/ChrisEvans/status/1047896966410190849 this]] on Twitter, the theory that Captain America is going to be KilledOffForReal spread like wildfire. When it came to [[https://www.insider.com/avengers-endgame-characters-most-likely-to-die-2019-4#1-steve-rogerscaptain-america-746-10 deadpools Cap would be at the top of majority of them.]] Although he comes ''this close'' to biting the dust, this turned out to be misdirection, even though Cap's story more or less ends with this film.
** The first official trailer showing that Tony and Nebula were trapped, adrift in space in the Guardians' spaceship, the ''Benatar'', had prompted some suggestion that they'd be rescued by Kraglin. Others have theorized they'd instead be picked up by Korg, Miek, and Valkyrie (along with any Asgardian survivors). They are ultimately rescued by Carol in the film.
** A [[https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/leaked-avengers-4-confirms-major-spoiler-pepper-potts/ leaked photo]] suggested Pepper would be suiting up as Rescue. She does.
** Some speculated that Drax's dusting would be [[KilledOffForReal permanent]] due to Creator/DaveBautista's objection to the firing of Creator/JamesGunn and publicly expressed his doubt for returning for ''Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3'', before the latter was re-hired. This ended up being {{Jossed}} as Drax ends up living.
** 2012 Loki escaping with the Tesseract and never appearing again provoked some suspicion that rather than being a prequel, his series on Creator/DisneyPlus would about this Loki's adventures on the run. [[Series/Loki2021 They were right]], though probably didn't foresee the TVA.
** Quite a few people guessed the briefly mentioned underwater earthquake is foreshadowing for [[ComicBook/SubMariner Namor the Sub-Mariner]]. While the writers stated that the earthquake was not intended to be related to Namor, he did in fact turn out to be the main antagonist in ''Film/BlackPantherWakandaForever''.
** With time-travel being a key factor in the movie, a lot of fans began speculating that Kang the Conqueror may play a role in Phase 4. Some fans even theorise that due to Tony Stark being the first to successfully pioneer time-travel, Tony Stark may be Kang's ancestor in this continuity as opposed to [[ComicBook/FantasticFour Reed Richards]] or [[Characters/MarvelComicsDoctorDoom Doctor Doom]] in the comics. For the former case, the confirmation that Kang will appear in the sequel to ''Film/AntManAndTheWasp'' after first appearing in the ''Loki'' show has added more credence.
** There are a few people who think the homosexual man in Cap's support group is the MCU version of Arnie Roth -- a gay man who was Steve's best friend and pre-serum protector in the comics.
** Some fans like to believe that a few of the non OST tracks heard in this film (i.e: "Supersonic Rocket Ship" by Music/TheKinks, "Hey Lawdy Mama" by Steppenwolf, and "Doom and Gloom" by Music/{{The Rolling Stones|Band}}) are songs from Peter Quill's Zune, due to them all being artists from the seventies.
** In another one from people impatient to get the X-Men and Fantastic Four in the MCU, several people started insisting that Captain Marvel telepathically tells Thor "I have telepathy" when he summons Stormbreaker past her head, thanks to some random weird voices in the soundtrack.
** Due to the BrokenBase over Steve's actions and how a good portion of the fanbase saw it was vehemently OutOfCharacter, a fair number of them tried to resolve the contradiction by claiming that the Steve Rogers at the end of the film was actually a Skrull imposter, bolstered by statements that the MCU were planning to adapt ''ComicBook/SecretInvasion''.

*** In relation, how much of 2014 Thanos's personality is [[BeneathTheMask the character's true colors overall]], and how much of it is a result of [[ForWantOfANail the diverged timeline]] brought by the Avengers' meddling? Would 2018 Thanos have agreed with 2014 Thanos's plan to [[RestartTheWorld restart the universe]], or would his experiences in ''Infinity War'' have left him with a different worldview? WordOfGod says more of the former is in effect, and a line uttered by 2018 Thanos to the Avengers ("You should be grateful!") seems to indicate this, but it should be noted that 2014 Thanos specifically came from the time right before Gamora and Nebula left him, which served as catalysts for the CharacterDevelopment he would receive in ''Infinity War''.

** Though her role is pretty minor, [[Characters/AntManHeroes Cassie Lang]] was welcomed by the fanbase in part because she welcomes her father back in open arms five years after thinking he died, and is now a [[SheIsAllGrownUp lovely young lady]]. The fact that she has the potential to become Stature in the future is also a plus.

* BrokenAesop: Steve Rogers hosts a support group for people who lost loved ones to the genocide of Thanos. He tells them that loss is a natural part of life and that sooner or later one needs to start moving forward, using his own loss of Peggy Carter as an example. At the end of the film when the Avengers have perfected the science behind time travel, Steve goes back and reunites with a young and living Peggy. So in other words Steve's whole viewpoint is dictated entirely by his options.

** Not to mention at the beginning of the movie they basically murder a now retired Thanos out of no other reason than vindictiveness.

** Rhodey criticizing Carol for not being on Earth for so many years and her subsequent offhanded response to it by pointing out that she had her hands full saving other planets is little more than a funny HandWave to justify why Carol has been absent from the MCU for over 30 years chronologically since her first film. ''[[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Secret Invasion]]'' later examines how Carol's absence has affected the Skrulls living on Earth, which culminates in them executing several terrorist attacks to manipulate world powers into destroying the planet in a nuclear war. Rhodey had much more of a point than he probably realized, especially since [[spoiler:he's shown to have been replaced by a Skrull during that show, meaning Carol's lack of action indirectly caused his fate.]]

** Despite being highly acclaimed by both critics and audiences, as well as drawing favorable comparisons to past Best Picture winner ''Film/TheLordOfTheRingsTheReturnOfTheKing'', the film was shut out of many major awards ceremonies. It wasn't nominated for any awards at the 2020 UsefulNotes/{{Golden Globe}}s and was only nominated for visual effects for both the UsefulNotes/{{Academy Award}}s and UsefulNotes/{{BAFTA}}s, losing to ''Film/NineteenSeventeen'' at both. This gives ''Endgame'' the dubious distinction of being the first film to become the highest grossing of all time without winning a single Oscar.[[note]]The last film to do this, ''Film/TheBirthOfANation1915'', predates the Academy Awards and in any case has...[[ValuesDissonance other issues]]. [[/note]] A lot of this has to do with the consensus that 2019 was an incredibly strong year for movies, whereas a weaker year might have allowed ''Endgame'' to get wins. Creator/RobertDowneyJr also declined to compete in the "Best Actor" category at the Oscars.

** Korg playing Fortnite on a [[{{UsefulNotes/PlayStation4}} PS4]] instead of a [[{{UsefulNotes/PlayStation5}} PS5]] makes it look like the film predicted scalpers and the semiconductor shortage lasting until 2023.

** Regardless of which side of the debate you fall on in regards to wether Thanos’s plan was right or wrong, what happened was undeniably a traumatic experience for everyone, however there is real discussion to be had about how unsympathetic the surviving avengers can seem with how they arrogantly decided that rather than accept their losses, move forward and heal. They instead decide that they have the right to to bring back everyone that was snapped away at the end of the previous movie and effectively throw the entire universe into chaos for a second time by not only upending the lives of everyone who had survived the Snap the first time, but also everyone who had been gone and has basically lost half a decade of time, yet the Avengers don’t have to answer for the consequences of this decision. Perhaps this idea is most embodied when Steve, trying to find a silver lining by pointing out that nature is recovering, says that he spotted humpback whales in the Hudson only for black widow to respond with “…if you're about to tell me to look on the bright side - I'm about to hit you in the head…” showing an unwillingness to consider that Thanos may have been right and instead putting their own self-interests above the survival of life and stability of the universe.

* FanPreferredCutContent: A lot of fans who weren't happy with Natasha's death and the reasoning behind it, felt the original idea of Clint dying instead of her would've worked better.

** [[TimeyWimeyBall In a way]], 2018 Thanos. He's [[DroppedABridgeOnHim killed in the first 20 minutes with minimal fuss]]. As a result, the final battle is about the Avengers fighting a past incarnation of Thanos who had none of his present-day counterpart's CharacterDevelopment.

** While Clint returning in this movie was expected, what ''wasn't'' expected was him donning the mantle of Ronin rather than Hawkeye. It was the identity he had in the comics after coming back to life when ''ComicBook/CivilWar2006'' was over and his original identity was taken by [[Characters/HawkeyeKateBishop Kate Bishop]]. Here, it's to show that he's become a violent vigilante and DeathSeeker during the TimeSkip after he lost his family in the DownerBeginning.

** The title itself, given the secrecy behind it, was the subject of a lot of speculation. Popular candidates for the movie's name included ''Avengers: ComicBook/TheInfinityGauntlet'',[[note]]which was {{Jossed}} shortly after the release of ''Infinity War''[[/note]] ''Avengers: [[ComicBook/TheInfinityCrusade Infinity Crusade]]'', [[note]]the name of the sequel to the original ''Infinity War'' comic[[/note]] ''Avengers: ComicBook/{{Secret Wars|1984}}'',[[note]]which the directors heavily implied was not the case when they mentioned a desire to adapt such a story in case Disney acquires Fox[[/note]] ''Avengers: ComicBook/SecretInvasion'', ''ComicBook/AvengersDisassembled'', ''ComicBook/AvengersForever'', [[note]]which the directors stated was the closest guess to what the actual title was, considering that Avengers Endgame was an actual guess at the time, however, this appears to have been misdirection in hindsight[[/note]] ''Avengers: ComicBook/{{Annihilation}}'', and, naturally, ''Avengers: Endgame''.[[note]]Ironically implied not to be the case at the time because the directors stated that the title of the fourth ''Avengers'' movie was not spoken in ''Infinity War''... [[LyingCreator which, of course, later turned out to actually be false.]][[/note]]