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typo


[[folder:Wild gas messing, epileptic trees & just ''way'' out there]]

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[[folder:Wild gas messing, epileptic trees & trees, and just ''way'' out there]]

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entry moved


[[WMG: Harry will break the Time Travel Law, go back in time and bequeath Amorracchius to Arthur.]]
* He's got to break that law at some point.



[[folder:Wild gas messing, epileptic trees, and just ''way'' out there]]

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[[folder:Wild gas messing, epileptic trees, and trees & just ''way'' out there]]
there]]

[[WMG: Harry will break the Time Travel Law, go back in time and bequeath Amorracchius to Arthur.]]
* He's got to break that law at some point.

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* As of ''Battle Ground'', Sanya [[spoiler: is alive, if not exactly well, as he had ADayInTheLimelight in the titular battle and got quite beaten up.]]

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Wild gas messing, epileptic trees, and just ''way'' out there]]
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ended spoiler tag


* As of ''Skin Game'', [[spoiler: the above guesses that Butters would wield a Sword are correct, except it's ''Fidelacchius'' that re-forms itself into a LaserBlade for him. Murphy's time as the Sword of Faith's wielder, it turns out, was never meant to extend beyond ''Changes''.

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* As of ''Skin Game'', [[spoiler: the above guesses that Butters would wield a Sword are correct, except it's ''Fidelacchius'' that re-forms itself into a LaserBlade for him. Murphy's time as the Sword of Faith's wielder, it turns out, was never meant to extend beyond ''Changes''.]]
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typos and ambigous syntax


* Further guess: In whatever form, Maggie Dresden will at one point get to keep / weild it (maybe keep first, until she is old enough for this to be more than a formality).

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* Further guess: In whatever form, Maggie Dresden will at one point get to keep / weild wield it (maybe keep first, until she is old enough for this to be more than a formality).



*** She botches it somewhat (or doesn't, considering whom we are talking about); the one summoned decides to come anyway (AFormYouAreComfortableWith included goes without saying), scolds her a bit for the summons because that would be [[AngerBornOfWorry expected]] when a [[FriendToAllChildren kid]] does something like that - and helps her anyway.

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*** She botches it somewhat (or doesn't, considering whom we are talking about); the one summoned decides to come anyway despite not having to (AFormYouAreComfortableWith included goes without saying), first scolds her a bit for the summons because that would be [[AngerBornOfWorry expected]] when a [[FriendToAllChildren kid]] does something like that as dangerous as summoning a deity - and then helps her out anyway.
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fixed a typo in a s(p)oiler tag


*** Harry has quite a few artefacts taken from [[spoiler: Hades' vault]] that could theoretically be used to summon [[soiler: the White God]] - if anyone were crazy enough to try. Maybe in some future book this will mean Harry will have to keep someone else entirely from doing so. On the other hand...

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*** Harry has quite a few artefacts taken from [[spoiler: Hades' vault]] that could theoretically be used to summon [[soiler: [[spoiler: the White God]] - if anyone were crazy enough to try. Maybe in some future book this will mean Harry will have to keep someone else entirely from doing so. On the other hand...



*** In return, she gets/has to keep the artifact in question. Which is really a way of always keeping an eye on her to make sure she's okay - like a ''big'' sign saying "don't mess with the kid, or else".

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*** In return, she gets/has is to keep the artifact in question. Which is really a way of always keeping an eye on her ''her'' to make sure she's okay - like a ''big'' sign saying "don't mess with the kid, or else".
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that spoiler tag is better.


*** Harry has quite a few artefacts [[spoiler: taken from Hades' vault]] that could theoretically be used to summon the White God - if anyone were crazy enough to try. Maybe in some future book this will mean Harry will have to keep someone else entirely from doing so. On the other hand...

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*** Harry has quite a few artefacts taken from [[spoiler: taken from Hades' vault]] that could theoretically be used to summon [[soiler: the White God God]] - if anyone were crazy enough to try. Maybe in some future book this will mean Harry will have to keep someone else entirely from doing so. On the other hand...



*** She botches it somewhat (or doesn't, considering who we are talking about); the one summoned decides to come anyway (AFormYouAreComfortableWith included goes without saying), scolds her a bit for the summons because that would be [[AngerBornOfWorry expected]] when a [[FriendToAllChildren kid]] does something like that - and helps her anyway.
*** In return, she gets/has to keep the artifact in question. Which is really a way of always keeping an eye on her to make sure she's okay.

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*** She botches it somewhat (or doesn't, considering who whom we are talking about); the one summoned decides to come anyway (AFormYouAreComfortableWith included goes without saying), scolds her a bit for the summons because that would be [[AngerBornOfWorry expected]] when a [[FriendToAllChildren kid]] does something like that - and helps her anyway.
*** In return, she gets/has to keep the artifact in question. Which is really a way of always keeping an eye on her to make sure she's okay.
okay - like a ''big'' sign saying "don't mess with the kid, or else".

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* In real life artworks of the crucifixion, there are either three or four nails depicted: that's depending on whether one nail goes through both feet (three in total), or whether there are two (making the total four). Maybe in the Dresdenverse, there are four nails; and that fourth nail will show up as a plot point at some time in a future book.
* In keeping with the love-faith-hope theme of the swords, however, that nail will not have been [[TheOneWhoLeftBeforeTheyGotFamous forged into a sword]], but will be something else:

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* In real life artworks of the crucifixion, there are either three or four nails depicted: that's depending on whether one nail goes through both feet (three in total), or whether there are two (making the total four). Maybe in the Dresdenverse, there are four nails; and that fourth nail will show up [[ChekhovsGun as a plot point point]] at some time in a future book.
* In keeping with the love-faith-hope theme of the swords, however, that nail will not have been [[TheOneWhoLeftBeforeTheyGotFamous [[LesserStar forged into a sword]], but will be something else:



** an amulet, worn by an EmissaryOfTheDivine when one is needed?

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** an amulet, worn by an EmissaryOfTheDivine EmissaryFromTheDivine when one is needed?




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** and another guess about how this arrangement came about:
*** Harry has quite a few artefacts [[spoiler: taken from Hades' vault]] that could theoretically be used to summon the White God - if anyone were crazy enough to try. Maybe in some future book this will mean Harry will have to keep someone else entirely from doing so. On the other hand...
*** ... crazy enough, or desperate enough. Enter Maggie, for some really, really good reason related to catastrophic events of your chosing (there is certainly no lack of predicaments to get her into in the Dresdenverse - maybe something has happened to Harry, her dad).
*** She botches it somewhat (or doesn't, considering who we are talking about); the one summoned decides to come anyway (AFormYouAreComfortableWith included goes without saying), scolds her a bit for the summons because that would be [[AngerBornOfWorry expected]] when a [[FriendToAllChildren kid]] does something like that - and helps her anyway.
*** In return, she gets/has to keep the artifact in question. Which is really a way of always keeping an eye on her to make sure she's okay.
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[[WMG: There is a fourth nail, which wasn't forged into a sword]]
* In real life artworks of the crucifixion, there are either three or four nails depicted: that's depending on whether one nail goes through both feet (three in total), or whether there are two (making the total four). Maybe in the Dresdenverse, there are four nails; and that fourth nail will show up as a plot point at some time in a future book.
* In keeping with the love-faith-hope theme of the swords, however, that nail will not have been [[TheOneWhoLeftBeforeTheyGotFamous forged into a sword]], but will be something else:
** a shield, maybe? And a fitting name for that would be something derived from the Latin word for "truth", veritas.
** it is still a nail, and sitting somewhere ''completely'' unassuming.
** an amulet, worn by an EmissaryOfTheDivine when one is needed?
* Further guess: In whatever form, Maggie Dresden will at one point get to keep / weild it (maybe keep first, until she is old enough for this to be more than a formality).
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another typo


* As of ''Battle Grounds'' Harry has both of them in protective custody on Demonreach. Thomas' life-long trouble is that he has felt true love, for his siblings and Justine, yet his demon makes him unable to handle it. Handing him a magical sword that is ThePowerOfLove personified is just too fitting.

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* As of ''Battle Grounds'' Ground'' Harry has both of them in protective custody on Demonreach. Thomas' life-long trouble is that he has felt true love, for his siblings and Justine, yet his demon makes him unable to handle it. Handing him a magical sword that is ThePowerOfLove personified is just too fitting.
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typo & formatting


Someday. But not today.

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* Someday. But not today.



* Also, as of ''Battle Ground'', both he and Amoracchius are being hidden away on Demonreach.

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* Also, as of ''Battle Ground'', both he and Amoracchius are being hidden away on Demonreach.



A WMG up above proposed that Thomas will end up wielding Amoracchius. However, Thomas prefers a saber - which Esperacchius is. Which means that by the end of the series....

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* A WMG up above proposed that Thomas will end up wielding Amoracchius. However, Thomas prefers a saber - which Esperacchius is. Which means that by the end of the series....

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also not mine - moved from plot predictions


* If the theories so far aren't crazy enough, let me propose: Mab will be the next wielder of Amoracchius]]

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* If the theories so far aren't crazy enough, let me propose: Mab will be the next wielder of Amoracchius]]
Amoracchius


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[[WMG: Thomas will become the wielder of Amoracchius.]]
* As of ''Battle Grounds'' Harry has both of them in protective custody on Demonreach. Thomas' life-long trouble is that he has felt true love, for his siblings and Justine, yet his demon makes him unable to handle it. Handing him a magical sword that is ThePowerOfLove personified is just too fitting.
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not mine - copied from plot predictions


* As of ''Skin Game'', [[spoiler: the above guesses that Butters would wield a Sword are correct, except it's ''Fidelacchius'' that re-forms itself into a LaserBlade for him. Murphy's time as the Sword of Faith's wielder, it turns out, was never meant to extend beyond ''Changes''.]]

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* As of ''Skin Game'', [[spoiler: the above guesses that Butters would wield a Sword are correct, except it's ''Fidelacchius'' that re-forms itself into a LaserBlade for him. Murphy's time as the Sword of Faith's wielder, it turns out, was never meant to extend beyond ''Changes''.]]
''Changes''.
*If the theories so far aren't crazy enough, let me propose: Mab will be the next wielder of Amoracchius]]

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I had to make a guess of my own sometime


[[WMG:Maggie Dresden will be a Knight of The Cross]]
Someday. But not today.




If it is Amoracchius, then it would make sense as a reprise of the Arthurian legend. After all, Dresden is the one would approved Marcone's becoming a Freeholding Lord under the accords, just as Merlin chose Arthur to become king.
* I approve of this idea if for no other reason than it will prompt a YouHaveGotToBeKiddingMe reaction from Harry.
* While I don't know about the main timeline Marcone, I think Mirror Mirror Marcone will be a Knight. If Harry was evil or more in the dark side, then Marcone could have been pushed closer to Shiro and the other Knights. If Marcone was saved by Shiro sacrificing himself for him, it would move Marcone and he could be like Sanya, a penitent man seeking to do good. He will take up ''Fidelacchius'' and when Main-Harry is running from people thinking he is Mirror-Harry and trying to kill him, Marcone will drive up, look at Harry and say, "Come with me if you want to live."

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\n* If it is Amoracchius, then it would make sense as a reprise of the Arthurian legend. After all, Dresden is the one would approved Marcone's becoming a Freeholding Lord under the accords, just as Merlin chose Arthur to become king.
* ** I approve of this idea if for no other reason than it will prompt a YouHaveGotToBeKiddingMe reaction from Harry.
* ** While I don't know about the main timeline Marcone, I think Mirror Mirror Marcone will be a Knight. If Harry was evil or more in the dark side, then Marcone could have been pushed closer to Shiro and the other Knights. If Marcone was saved by Shiro sacrificing himself for him, it would move Marcone and he could be like Sanya, a penitent man seeking to do good. He will take up ''Fidelacchius'' and when Main-Harry is running from people thinking he is Mirror-Harry and trying to kill him, Marcone will drive up, look at Harry and say, "Come with me if you want to live."




On a thematic related note Harry refers to himself depreciatingly as a thug of winter instead of a knight but there is a subtle unasked and unanswered question - what is the difference between a thug and a knight? Relatedly what is the difference between a crime boss and a king? Both collect money for protection with force and are in their position via power and the loyalty of their men. Kings also had to make questionable hard decisions.

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\n* On a thematic related note Harry refers to himself depreciatingly as a thug of winter instead of a knight but there is a subtle unasked and unanswered question - what is the difference between a thug and a knight? Relatedly what is the difference between a crime boss and a king? Both collect money for protection with force and are in their position via power and the loyalty of their men. Kings also had to make questionable hard decisions.







''Fidelacchius'''s current form [[spoiler:of a blade which destroys the spiritual but not the mortal flesh means that when Butters uses the Sword against a Fallen, the mortal host will be fine but the Fallen inside will suffer horribly from it. The only pain the host will suffer is if the Fallen's reaction to the pain causes it by consequence. This also means Butters might be able to purify the Denarius itself by destroying the Fallen within]].

This also means that it might be able to [[spoiler:cure White Court vampires, as Thomas has described being White Court as being a man with a demon inside. The new form of Fidelacchius might be able to slay the demon and leave the man intact.]]

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\n* ''Fidelacchius'''s current form [[spoiler:of a blade which destroys the spiritual but not the mortal flesh means that when Butters uses the Sword against a Fallen, the mortal host will be fine but the Fallen inside will suffer horribly from it. The only pain the host will suffer is if the Fallen's reaction to the pain causes it by consequence. This also means Butters might be able to purify the Denarius itself by destroying the Fallen within]].

within]].
*
This also means that it might be able to [[spoiler:cure White Court vampires, as Thomas has described being White Court as being a man with a demon inside. The new form of Fidelacchius might be able to slay the demon and leave the man intact.]]




Related to the above entry, in ''Battle Ground'' we see someone on a RoaringRampageOfRevenge have ''Fidelacchius'' [[StealthPun cut it out]] of him. Unlike guessed above, though, this is described as ''very'' painful for the person in question - though perhaps this was because the desire for revenge was all their own? Put another way, as by ''Creator/AleksandrSolzhenitsyn'':

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\n* Related to the above entry, in ''Battle Ground'' we see someone on a RoaringRampageOfRevenge have ''Fidelacchius'' [[StealthPun cut it out]] of him. Unlike guessed above, though, this is described as ''very'' painful for the person in question - though perhaps this was because the desire for revenge was all their own? Put another way, as by ''Creator/AleksandrSolzhenitsyn'':



Maybe, if done in the right way, all three of the swords ''could'' do something like that, and it has nothing to do with ''Fidelacchius''' new form as [[spoiler: a lightsaber]]?

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* Maybe, if done in the right way, all three of the swords ''could'' do something like that, and it has nothing to do with ''Fidelacchius''' new form as [[spoiler: a lightsaber]]?

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even more formatting


[[WMG: The gang kid Fitz from ''Ghost Story'' will become the next wielder of ''Amoracchius.'']]
Assuming he's got the royal blood qualification, Fitz shows lots of qualities common to a Knight of the Cross:

* He's TheAtoner. Having been shown mercy by Harry and Father Forthill, he's better able to apply it to others.
* He's got an innate sensitivity to the supernatural world, being able to hear Harry's spirit-voice.
* He's brave and strong-willed, enough so to stand up to Aristedes's magically-enhanced aura of fear.
* He's a natural leader, being able to turn the other gang kids away from Aristedes even when they're terrified and in awe of him.
* He's willing to put his own life on the line for his friends and Father Forthill. "No greater love hath a man than this..." An ideal qualification for a wielder of the Sword of Love.
* There had to be some reason, beyond mere altruism, that Harry was drawn to help him even while on his "final mission." Fitz does come off very much like a boy-king-in-waiting to Harry's wizard-mentor.
* Bonus: A last name beginning with "Fitz" has been historically used in order to acknowledge the lineage of a royal's illegitimate child. Henry VIII's first child wasn't Mary; it was a boy, born to a mistress named Bessie Blount, whose last name was Fitzhenry - which was given happily and freely by the king to the child since the child was a much-wanted son.
** Do we even know if Fitz was his last name, or his real one for that matter? Everyone else in the gang went by street names, and American teens generally don't refer to one another by surnames unless they're really hostile to one another.

[[WMG: Daniel Carpenter will be the next wielder of Amoracchius.]]
In ''Ghost Story'' Daniel shows much of the same passion and determination as his parents. While the Swords of the Cross aren't (necessarily) inherited, it seems right that Michael's oldest son would follow in his footsteps.


* Passion and determination, yes, but he doesn't exude the calm, kind vibe that his father did while holding the sword.
* As of Skin Game [[spoiler: Michael briefly took up Amoracchius again, but at the end, it's back in Harry's custody.]]

to:

[[WMG: The gang kid Fitz from ''Ghost Story'' will become the next wielder of ''Amoracchius.'']]
Assuming he's got the royal blood qualification, Fitz shows lots of qualities common to a Knight
three Knights of the Cross:

Cross will be:]]
* He's TheAtoner. Having been shown mercy by Murphy, wielding Fidelacchius. ''Small Favor'' has already hinted very, very strongly at this.
** As stated further up, this happens, albeit temporarily, in ''Changes''. Odds are, she may take it up full-time.
* Harry will wield Amoracchius. There's already too many parallels between
Harry and Father Forthill, he's better able to apply it to others.
* He's got an innate sensitivity to
Merlin, the supernatural world, being able to hear original holder of Excalibur, and Amoracchius is most likely Arthur's sword.
** The ''other'' Harry will wield Amoracchius.
Harry's spirit-voice.
* He's brave
got parallels to Merlin, but if Michael's descended from King Arthur, that means Harry Carpenter is, too. We've still got between nine and strong-willed, enough eleven years until the Apocalyptic Trilogy if the number of books goes according to Butcher's plan and the next ten books follow the same year-on-average pattern, so young Harry should be somewhere between sixteen and eighteen by then. With Charity breaking out the old smithing projects, and Michael having plenty of time to instruct him in double-edge, straight blade sword work, he should be quite ready to break his Caliburn and pick up Amoracchius in, say, defense of his family...
*** Michael isn't descended from Arthur. The end of the one book says it's ''Charlemagne''. It's believed Amoracchius may have been Excalibur.
** Butters will wield Amoracchius. It's revealed in Ghost Story that he's an ME instead of a doctor because he can't
stand up to Aristedes's magically-enhanced aura of fear.
* He's a natural leader, being able to turn
seeing people in pain. Love? Hell– er, heck yes! And in Dead Beat when Harry was getting the other gang kids away from Aristedes crap beat out of him and wished for a Knight to "coincidentally" show up and save him, Butters showed up and saved him.
*** If Butters can't stand to see people in pain, why would he actually ''want'' one of the Swords? Edged weapons are ''designed'' to cause injury and pain,
even when if they're terrified wielded in the best possible cause.
** Johnny Marcone will wield Amoracchius in Persephone's name, for one truly EPIC battle, make a HeroicSacrifice,
and in awe then Butters will get it.
* Thomas, who will be wielding Esperacchius. Thomas already uses a saber anyway, he's a descendant
of him.
* He's willing to put his own life on
royalty, and the line for his friends and Father Forthill. "No greater love hath a man than this..." An ideal qualification for a wielder image of the Sword three of Love.
* There had
them being Knights of the Cross is just too fraking awesome to be some reason, beyond mere altruism, that Harry was drawn to help him even while on his "final mission." Fitz does come off very much like a boy-king-in-waiting to Harry's wizard-mentor.
* Bonus: A last name beginning with "Fitz" has been historically used in order to acknowledge
anything but the lineage of a royal's illegitimate child. Henry VIII's first child wasn't Mary; it was a boy, born to a mistress named Bessie Blount, whose last name was Fitzhenry - which was given happily and freely by the king to the child since the child was a much-wanted son.
truth.
** Do we even know if Fitz was his last name, Alternately, either Molly or his real one for that matter? Everyone else in the gang went by street names, and American teens generally don't refer to one another by surnames unless they're really hostile to one another.

[[WMG:
Daniel Carpenter will be the next wielder of Amoracchius.]]
In ''Ghost Story'' Daniel shows much of
Esperacchius. We know they're the same passion descendents of Charlemagne, and determination Sir Stuart referred to Esperacchius as his parents. While Durandal, the Swords of the Cross aren't (necessarily) inherited, it seems right blade wielded by Charlemagne's paladin Roland.
** I think if anything Butters would be more likely to wield Esperacchius, since Harry's wishing
that a knight would show up to save him in ''Dead Beat'' was essentially blind HOPE. Thomas is a no-brainer for Amoracchius and Murphy has already been shown as Fidelacchius' next wielder. She just hasn't totally taken up the sword yet.
** Or maybe Sanya will ''survive'' the entire series, just as Hope can survive even when nothing else remains.
* As of ''Skin Game'', [[spoiler: the above guesses that Butters would wield a Sword are correct, except it's ''Fidelacchius'' that re-forms itself into a LaserBlade for him. Murphy's time as the Sword of Faith's wielder, it turns out, was never meant to extend beyond ''Changes''.]]

[[WMG: Harry will eventually wield ''Esperachius'']]
If Murphy gets Fidelachius (Faith) and Thomas gets Amorachius (Love) then the best match for Harry is Esperachius (Hope). Murphy is possessed of a deep faith, while Thomas is driven by love and Harry is a beacon of hope in a situation that is increasingly getting worse. He even gave hope to Lash that she could be more than a mere copy of Lasciel. That's pretty damn inspiring if you ask me. Of course this does mean that Sanya had best be careful.
* Of course that would mean Michael has to die.
** How so?
Michael's oldest son would follow in his footsteps.


* Passion and determination, yes, but he doesn't exude
out of commission for the calm, kind vibe that his father did while holding the sword.
* As
for foreseeable future as of Skin Game [[spoiler: Michael briefly took up Amoracchius again, but at the end, ''Small Favor'' which leaves Thomas free with wield ''Amorachius.'' If Harry is going to wield ''Esperachius'' it's back in ''Sanya'' that has to die or be incapacitated.
*** Worse, there's also only one sword out there, at this point. This Troper's ten cents says that Sanya's going to bite it, or otherwise lose his sword to evil, and
Harry's custody.]]
going to have to get it for the plot of a book. Or even one of those side-plot-type-things.
*** Sanya is an Ex-Denarian. Ten bucks says someone gives him his coin back.
*** Someone already ''did.'' Harry got Magog's coin when Elder Gruff vaporized him. He said he would get it to Sanya, though we never actually saw an exchange.
*** With the recent GrimDark turn of the story, this troper wouldn't be surprised if Sanya kicked it or was forced to take his coin up again.
*** And with Sanya being 50/50 of a comparison to Boromir...Foreshadowing?
* It does make sense that Harry would end up with the atheist's sword.
** Sanya is not an atheist, he is just not a participant.
*** Sanya ''says'' he's an atheist. When pressed, he admits he ''might'' be agnostic. He's not "just not a participant".
* It also would fit with the fact that Harry wasn't given a sword when he joined the Wardens. Granted, Luccio can't make them currently, the pieces do fit.
** God works in mysterious ways, anyone?



[[WMG: Butters is going to be a Knight of the Cross]]
In ''Dead Beat'', when Harry is being tortured and praying for a Knight to come to his rescue, Butters [[TakeALevelInBadass shows up and saves his ass]]. Foreshadowing?
* I am conflicted. On the one hand, it's Butters, Knight of the Cross. On the other hand, of the three knightly virtues, Butters mostly possesses Hope. Thus, for him to take up a sword, the agnostic Fist of God would have to be taken out of the action.
* It would be funnier for Butters to get the sword of Faith, because he doesn't have any faith in himself. And of course there's his faith in Polka (which will never die).
* Possible ... but then again, it wasn't Butters who actually killed Cassius, it was ''Mouse''. As Mouse is an ass-kicking AngelUnaware, whom even Uriel calls "little brother", isn't he the more likely one to have been acting as a stand-in Knight at the time? Butters was the clever guy who was there to open the car door and to buy Mouse time to chomp the baddie, meaning he was playing ''Harry'' to Mouse's Michael.
* Would Butters even ''want'' a Sword? His intense aversion to seeing anyone in pain would seem to argue against him wielding an edged weapon. He's better on defense (empowering circles, patching wounds, playing lookout with Bob) than offense, in any case.
* [[spoiler:CONFIRMED in Skin Game, and he gets his hands on Fidelacchius, due to his faith in Harry and in good triumphing over evil, Harry's faith in Butters and Michael's faith in that there is still power in the sword.]]

[[WMG: Butters is a descendant of Solomon]]
* Assuming royal blood is a prerequisite for wielding one of the Three (or at least getting that cool glow whilst doing so), Butters has to be the descendant of a king.
** He's Jewish.
** He's the "smart guy" of the series and he spends a lot of time hanging around with a spirit of intellect.
** This would imply he *could* be the Messiah. Convenient for potential end-of-days plots.



[[WMG: Harry will eventually wield ''Esperachius'']]
If Murphy gets Fidelachius (Faith) and Thomas gets Amorachius (Love) then the best match for Harry is Esperachius (Hope). Murphy is possessed of a deep faith, while Thomas is driven by love and Harry is a beacon of hope in a situation that is increasingly getting worse. He even gave hope to Lash that she could be more than a mere copy of Lasciel. That's pretty damn inspiring if you ask me. Of course this does mean that Sanya had best be careful.
* Of course that would mean Michael has to die.
** How so? Michael's out of commission for the for foreseeable future as of ''Small Favor'' which leaves Thomas free with wield ''Amorachius.'' If Harry is going to wield ''Esperachius'' it's ''Sanya'' that has to die or be incapacitated.
*** Worse, there's also only one sword out there, at this point. This Troper's ten cents says that Sanya's going to bite it, or otherwise lose his sword to evil, and Harry's going to have to get it for the plot of a book. Or even one of those side-plot-type-things.
*** Sanya is an Ex-Denarian. Ten bucks says someone gives him his coin back.
*** Someone already ''did.'' Harry got Magog's coin when Elder Gruff vaporized him. He said he would get it to Sanya, though we never actually saw an exchange.
*** With the recent GrimDark turn of the story, this troper wouldn't be surprised if Sanya kicked it or was forced to take his coin up again.
*** And with Sanya being 50/50 of a comparison to Boromir...Foreshadowing?
* It does make sense that Harry would end up with the atheist's sword.
** Sanya is not an atheist, he is just not a participant.
*** Sanya ''says'' he's an atheist. When pressed, he admits he ''might'' be agnostic. He's not "just not a participant".
* It also would fit with the fact that Harry wasn't given a sword when he joined the Wardens. Granted, Luccio can't make them currently, the pieces do fit.
** God works in mysterious ways, anyone?



[[WMG: The three Knights of the Cross will be:]]
* Murphy, wielding Fidelacchius. ''Small Favor'' has already hinted very, very strongly at this.
** As stated further up, this happens, albeit temporarily, in ''Changes''. Odds are, she may take it up full-time.
* Harry will wield Amoracchius. There's already too many parallels between Harry and Merlin, the original holder of Excalibur, and Amoracchius is most likely Arthur's sword.
** The ''other'' Harry will wield Amoracchius. Harry's got parallels to Merlin, but if Michael's descended from King Arthur, that means Harry Carpenter is, too. We've still got between nine and eleven years until the Apocalyptic Trilogy if the number of books goes according to Butcher's plan and the next ten books follow the same year-on-average pattern, so young Harry should be somewhere between sixteen and eighteen by then. With Charity breaking out the old smithing projects, and Michael having plenty of time to instruct him in double-edge, straight blade sword work, he should be quite ready to break his Caliburn and pick up Amoracchius in, say, defense of his family...
*** Michael isn't descended from Arthur. The end of the one book says it's ''Charlemagne''. It's believed Amoracchius may have been Excalibur.
** Butters will wield Amoracchius. It's revealed in Ghost Story that he's an ME instead of a doctor because he can't stand seeing people in pain. Love? Hell– er, heck yes! And in Dead Beat when Harry was getting the crap beat out of him and wished for a Knight to "coincidentally" show up and save him, Butters showed up and saved him.
*** If Butters can't stand to see people in pain, why would he actually ''want'' one of the Swords? Edged weapons are ''designed'' to cause injury and pain, even if they're wielded in the best possible cause.
** Johnny Marcone will wield Amoracchius in Persephone's name, for one truly EPIC battle, make a HeroicSacrifice, and then Butters will get it.
* Thomas, who will be wielding Esperacchius. Thomas already uses a saber anyway, he's a descendant of royalty, and the image of the three of them being Knights of the Cross is just too fraking awesome to be anything but the truth.
** Alternately, either Molly or Daniel Carpenter will be the wielder of Esperacchius. We know they're the descendents of Charlemagne, and Sir Stuart referred to Esperacchius as Durandal, the blade wielded by Charlemagne's paladin Roland.
** I think if anything Butters would be more likely to wield Esperacchius, since Harry's wishing that a knight would show up to save him in ''Dead Beat'' was essentially blind HOPE. Thomas is a no-brainer for Amoracchius and Murphy has already been shown as Fidelacchius' next wielder. She just hasn't totally taken up the sword yet.
** Or maybe Sanya will ''survive'' the entire series, just as Hope can survive even when nothing else remains.
* As of ''Skin Game'', [[spoiler: the above guesses that Butters would wield a Sword are correct, except it's ''Fidelacchius'' that re-forms itself into a LaserBlade for him. Murphy's time as the Sword of Faith's wielder, it turns out, was never meant to extend beyond ''Changes''.]]

[[WMG: Butters is going to be a Knight of the Cross]]
In ''Dead Beat'', when Harry is being tortured and praying for a Knight to come to his rescue, Butters [[TakeALevelInBadass shows up and saves his ass]]. Foreshadowing?
* I am conflicted. On the one hand, it's Butters, Knight of the Cross. On the other hand, of the three knightly virtues, Butters mostly possesses Hope. Thus, for him to take up a sword, the agnostic Fist of God would have to be taken out of the action.
* It would be funnier for Butters to get the sword of Faith, because he doesn't have any faith in himself. And of course there's his faith in Polka (which will never die).
* Possible ... but then again, it wasn't Butters who actually killed Cassius, it was ''Mouse''. As Mouse is an ass-kicking AngelUnaware, whom even Uriel calls "little brother", isn't he the more likely one to have been acting as a stand-in Knight at the time? Butters was the clever guy who was there to open the car door and to buy Mouse time to chomp the baddie, meaning he was playing ''Harry'' to Mouse's Michael.
* Would Butters even ''want'' a Sword? His intense aversion to seeing anyone in pain would seem to argue against him wielding an edged weapon. He's better on defense (empowering circles, patching wounds, playing lookout with Bob) than offense, in any case.
* [[spoiler:CONFIRMED in Skin Game, and he gets his hands on Fidelacchius, due to his faith in Harry and in good triumphing over evil, Harry's faith in Butters and Michael's faith in that there is still power in the sword.]]

[[WMG: Butters is a descendant of Solomon]]
* Assuming royal blood is a prerequisite for wielding one of the Three (or at least getting that cool glow whilst doing so), Butters has to be the descendant of a king.
** He's Jewish.
** He's the "smart guy" of the series and he spends a lot of time hanging around with a spirit of intellect.
** This would imply he *could* be the Messiah. Convenient for potential end-of-days plots.

to:

[[WMG: The three Knights of the Cross will be:]]
* Murphy, wielding Fidelacchius. ''Small Favor'' has already hinted very, very strongly at this.
** As stated further up, this happens, albeit temporarily, in ''Changes''. Odds are, she may take it up full-time.
* Harry will wield Amoracchius. There's already too many parallels between Harry and Merlin, the original holder of Excalibur, and Amoracchius is most likely Arthur's sword.
** The ''other'' Harry will wield Amoracchius. Harry's got parallels to Merlin, but if Michael's descended from King Arthur, that means Harry Carpenter is, too. We've still got between nine and eleven years until the Apocalyptic Trilogy if the number of books goes according to Butcher's plan and the next ten books follow the same year-on-average pattern, so young Harry should be somewhere between sixteen and eighteen by then. With Charity breaking out the old smithing projects, and Michael having plenty of time to instruct him in double-edge, straight blade sword work, he should be quite ready to break his Caliburn and pick up Amoracchius in, say, defense of his family...
*** Michael isn't descended from Arthur. The end of the one book says it's ''Charlemagne''. It's believed Amoracchius may have been Excalibur.
** Butters will wield Amoracchius. It's revealed in Ghost Story that he's an ME instead of a doctor because he can't stand seeing people in pain. Love? Hell– er, heck yes! And in Dead Beat when Harry was getting the crap beat out of him and wished for a Knight to "coincidentally" show up and save him, Butters showed up and saved him.
*** If Butters can't stand to see people in pain, why would he actually ''want'' one of the Swords? Edged weapons are ''designed'' to cause injury and pain, even if they're wielded in the best possible cause.
** Johnny Marcone will wield Amoracchius in Persephone's name, for one truly EPIC battle, make a HeroicSacrifice, and then Butters will get it.
* Thomas, who will be wielding Esperacchius. Thomas already uses a saber anyway, he's a descendant of royalty, and the image of the three of them being Knights of the Cross is just too fraking awesome to be anything but the truth.
** Alternately, either Molly or
Daniel Carpenter will be the next wielder of Esperacchius. We know they're Amoracchius.]]
In ''Ghost Story'' Daniel shows much of
the descendents of Charlemagne, same passion and Sir Stuart referred to Esperacchius determination as Durandal, his parents. While the blade wielded by Charlemagne's paladin Roland.
** I think if anything Butters
Swords of the Cross aren't (necessarily) inherited, it seems right that Michael's oldest son would be more likely to wield Esperacchius, since follow in his footsteps.
* Passion and determination, yes, but he doesn't exude the calm, kind vibe that his father did while holding the sword.
* As of Skin Game [[spoiler: Michael briefly took up Amoracchius again, but at the end, it's back in
Harry's wishing that a knight would show up to save him in ''Dead Beat'' was essentially blind HOPE. Thomas is a no-brainer for Amoracchius and Murphy has already been shown as Fidelacchius' next wielder. She just hasn't totally taken up the sword yet.
** Or maybe Sanya will ''survive'' the entire series, just as Hope can survive even when nothing else remains.
* As of ''Skin Game'', [[spoiler: the above guesses that Butters would wield a Sword are correct, except it's ''Fidelacchius'' that re-forms itself into a LaserBlade for him. Murphy's time as the Sword of Faith's wielder, it turns out, was never meant to extend beyond ''Changes''.
custody.]]

[[WMG: Butters is going to be a Knight of the Cross]]
In ''Dead Beat'', when Harry is being tortured and praying for a Knight to come to his rescue, Butters [[TakeALevelInBadass shows up and saves his ass]]. Foreshadowing?
* I am conflicted. On the one hand, it's Butters, Knight of the Cross. On the other hand, of the three knightly virtues, Butters mostly possesses Hope. Thus, for him to take up a sword, the agnostic Fist of God would have to be taken out of the action.
* It would be funnier for Butters to get the sword of Faith, because he doesn't have any faith in himself. And of course there's his faith in Polka (which
Charity will never die).
* Possible ... but then again, it wasn't Butters who actually killed Cassius, it was ''Mouse''. As Mouse is an ass-kicking AngelUnaware, whom even Uriel calls "little brother", isn't he the more likely one to have been acting as a stand-in Knight at the time? Butters was the clever guy who was there to open the car door and to buy Mouse time to chomp the baddie, meaning he was playing ''Harry'' to Mouse's Michael.
* Would Butters even ''want'' a Sword? His intense aversion to seeing anyone in pain would seem to argue against him
end up wielding an edged weapon. He's better on defense (empowering circles, patching wounds, playing lookout with Bob) than offense, in any case.
* [[spoiler:CONFIRMED in Skin Game, and he gets his hands on Fidelacchius, due to his faith in Harry and in good triumphing over evil, Harry's faith in Butters and
''Amoracchius''.]]
As
Michael's faith in sparring partner of 20 years, she knows how to use a sword, and is probably comfortable with that there specific style of sword. As protective of her family as she is, love is still power in the sword.]]

[[WMG: Butters is
not a descendant of Solomon]]
* Assuming royal blood is a prerequisite for wielding one
problem. It's also worth noting that some versions of the Three (or at least getting verse that cool glow whilst doing so), Butters has to be mentions "faith, hope, and love" translate the descendant of a king.
** He's Jewish.
** He's the "smart guy"
greatest of the series and he spends a lot of time hanging around with a spirit of intellect.
** This would imply he *could* be the Messiah. Convenient for potential end-of-days plots.
three not as Love... but as Charity.



[[WMG: Charity will end up wielding ''Amoracchius''.]]
As Michael's sparring partner of 20 years, she knows how to use a sword, and is probably comfortable with that specific style of sword. As protective of her family as she is, love is not a problem. It's also worth noting that some versions of the verse that mentions "faith, hope, and love" translate the greatest of the three not as Love... but as Charity.



[[WMG: The gang kid Fitz from ''Ghost Story'' will become the next wielder of ''Amoracchius.'']]
Assuming he's got the royal blood qualification, Fitz shows lots of qualities common to a Knight of the Cross:

* He's TheAtoner. Having been shown mercy by Harry and Father Forthill, he's better able to apply it to others.
* He's got an innate sensitivity to the supernatural world, being able to hear Harry's spirit-voice.
* He's brave and strong-willed, enough so to stand up to Aristedes's magically-enhanced aura of fear.
* He's a natural leader, being able to turn the other gang kids away from Aristedes even when they're terrified and in awe of him.
* He's willing to put his own life on the line for his friends and Father Forthill. "No greater love hath a man than this..." An ideal qualification for a wielder of the Sword of Love.
* There had to be some reason, beyond mere altruism, that Harry was drawn to help him even while on his "final mission." Fitz does come off very much like a boy-king-in-waiting to Harry's wizard-mentor.
* Bonus: A last name beginning with "Fitz" has been historically used in order to acknowledge the lineage of a royal's illegitimate child. Henry VIII's first child wasn't Mary; it was a boy, born to a mistress named Bessie Blount, whose last name was Fitzhenry - which was given happily and freely by the king to the child since the child was a much-wanted son.
** Do we even know if Fitz was his last name, or his real one for that matter? Everyone else in the gang went by street names, and American teens generally don't refer to one another by surnames unless they're really hostile to one another.



[[folder:What the swords can do]]

[[WMG: If Thomas gets Amorrachius, it will deal with his demon while leaving it intact.]]

to:

[[folder:What the swords can do]]

[[folder:Supposed sword superpowers]]

[[WMG: If Thomas gets Amorrachius, it will deal with his hunger demon while leaving it intact.]]by...]]



* Option D: The sword's incredible PowerOfLove will utterly ''destroy'' the demon, making Thomas human.

* Option B seems unlikely to me. Even if the Hunger switches its diet to love, the feeding still consumes life force. That might make things even worse, and a sword that God works through would probably be able to cause a better solution than still feeding on and slowly killing the woman its wielder loves.

to:

* Option D: The sword's incredible PowerOfLove will utterly ''destroy'' the demon, making Thomas human.

* Option B seems unlikely to me. Even if the Hunger switches its diet to love, the feeding still consumes life force. That might make things even worse, and a sword that God works through would probably be able to cause a better solution than still feeding on and slowly killing the woman its wielder loves.



[[folder:Plot and worldbuilding guesses]]

to:

[[folder:Plot and worldbuilding guesses]]
predictions & motivation musings]]



* If developments in ''Skin Game'' are any example, [[spoiler: it's possible that the Swords reforge ''themselves'' when it's appropriate, without any mortal's help.]]

to:

* If developments in ''Skin Game'' are any example, [[spoiler: it's possible that the Swords reforge ''themselves'' when it's appropriate, without any mortal's mortal help.]]

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[[WMG: Murphy is a descendant of King Arthur]]
* The swords can only truly be wielded by someone with royal blood (You can hold it and use it in combat without royal blood, but it doesn't get that cool glow if you're not descended from royalty).
* Murphy's ancestry hails from somewhere in the British Isles.
* She's a righteous warrior and close companion of a powerful sorcerer.
* Said sorcerer is the custodian of a magical sword and is just waiting for her to take up the blade.
* She's main cast, so she is of course descended from a far more well-known and powerful character than the kings in the other characters' backgrounds (Charlemagne, Saladin, and the last king of Okinawa).



[[WMG: Butters is a descendant of Solomon]]
* Assuming royal blood is a prerequisite for wielding one of the Three (or at least getting that cool glow whilst doing so), Butters has to be the descendant of a king.
** He's Jewish.
** He's the "smart guy" of the series and he spends a lot of time hanging around with a spirit of intellect.
** This would imply he *could* be the Messiah. Convenient for potential end-of-days plots.









[[WMG: Murphy is a descendant of King Arthur]]
* The swords can only truly be wielded by someone with royal blood (You can hold it and use it in combat without royal blood, but it doesn't get that cool glow if you're not descended from royalty).
* Murphy's ancestry hails from somewhere in the British Isles.
* She's a righteous warrior and close companion of a powerful sorcerer.
* Said sorcerer is the custodian of a magical sword and is just waiting for her to take up the blade.
* She's main cast, so she is of course descended from a far more well-known and powerful character than the kings in the other characters' backgrounds (Charlemagne, Saladin, and the last king of Okinawa).

[[WMG: Butters is a descendant of Solomon]]
* Assuming royal blood is a prerequisite for wielding one of the Three (or at least getting that cool glow whilst doing so), Butters has to be the descendant of a king.
** He's Jewish.
** He's the "smart guy" of the series and he spends a lot of time hanging around with a spirit of intellect.
** This would imply he *could* be the Messiah. Convenient for potential end-of-days plots.



* Option D: The sword's incredible PowerOfLove will utterly ''destroy'' the demon, making Thomas a human.

to:

* Option D: The sword's incredible PowerOfLove will utterly ''destroy'' the demon, making Thomas a human.human.



[[WMG: The Swords will lead to the downfall of the White Court.]]
* Specifically, Amoracchius will lead to the downfall of House Raith, since their weakness is genuine love. Fidelacchius will be the death of House Malvora, since the power of Faith (or as an alternate interpretation, the strength of courage and trust) would be a logical weakness against fear. Finally, Esperacchius will defeat House Skavis, since they feed on despair, which would logically be countered by Hope. Furthermore, I believe that this has already been foreshadowed by Butcher, based on how Thomas paraphrased the verse in I Corinthians in Blood Rites: 'When every star in the heavens grows cold, and when silence lies once more on the face of the deep, three things will endure: faith, hope, and love... Father makes all of us memorize that passage. Like when parents put those green yucky-face stickers on the poisonous cleaning products under the kitchen sink.' There are three Houses or the white court, and three swords; the Sword of Love, the Sword of Faith, and the Sword of Hope. Finally, the curse 'Empty Night' has only been used by white court vamps. Now, if there was one night that the White Court knew that Faith, Hope, and Love, would endure, and those forces had the power to destroy them, it would make sense they would swear and cuss by that night.







[[folder:Future plot guesses]]

to:

[[folder:Future plot [[folder:Plot and worldbuilding guesses]]



* To whit:

to:

* To whit:wit:


Added DiffLines:

[[WMG: The Swords will lead to the downfall of the White Court.]]
* Specifically, Amoracchius will lead to the downfall of House Raith, since their weakness is genuine love. Fidelacchius will be the death of House Malvora, since the power of Faith (or as an alternate interpretation, the strength of courage and trust) would be a logical weakness against fear. Finally, Esperacchius will defeat House Skavis, since they feed on despair, which would logically be countered by Hope. Furthermore, I believe that this has already been foreshadowed by Butcher, based on how Thomas paraphrased the verse in I Corinthians in Blood Rites: 'When every star in the heavens grows cold, and when silence lies once more on the face of the deep, three things will endure: faith, hope, and love... Father makes all of us memorize that passage. Like when parents put those green yucky-face stickers on the poisonous cleaning products under the kitchen sink.' There are three Houses or the white court, and three swords; the Sword of Love, the Sword of Faith, and the Sword of Hope. Finally, the curse 'Empty Night' has only been used by white court vamps. Now, if there was one night that the White Court knew that Faith, Hope, and Love, would endure, and those forces had the power to destroy them, it would make sense they would swear and cuss by that night.

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formatting


[[WMG: Luccio is going to reforge the swords for some purpose.]]
* To whit:
** Luccio is an extremely talented blacksmith, shown by the fact that she's made ''all'' of the Wardens' swords.
** Two of the three Swords have been reworked in the past, while they were being passed on.
** Is it a coincidence we learn ''both'' of these facts in the same book?
* at some point, the Swords will be reforged, perhaps into one Sword that serves as some kind of ridiculously overpowered InfinityPlusOneSword. But that possibility aside, the law of conservation of details suggests that forging will happen, and Luccio will be instrumental.
** Conservation of detail may not apply, if Butcher only mentioned the reforging to make nitpickers quit asking him how swords that are ''supposed'' to be 2000 years old could look like a katana (mostly dating to 900 AD or later) or a cavalry saber (17th century).
* If developments in ''Skin Game'' are any example, [[spoiler: it's possible that the Swords reforge ''themselves'' when it's appropriate, without any mortal's help.]]

to:

[[WMG: Luccio is going to reforge the swords for some purpose.]]
* To whit:
** Luccio is an extremely talented blacksmith, shown by the fact that she's made ''all'' of the Wardens' swords.
** Two of the three Swords have been reworked in the past, while they were being passed on.
** Is it a coincidence we learn ''both'' of these facts in the same book?
* at some point, the Swords
[[folder:Who will be reforged, perhaps into one Sword that serves as some kind of ridiculously overpowered InfinityPlusOneSword. But that possibility aside, the law of conservation of details suggests that forging will happen, and Luccio will be instrumental.
** Conservation of detail may not apply, if Butcher only mentioned the reforging to make nitpickers quit asking him how swords that are ''supposed'' to be 2000 years old could look like a katana (mostly dating to 900 AD or later) or a cavalry saber (17th century).
* If developments in ''Skin Game'' are any example, [[spoiler: it's possible that the Swords reforge ''themselves'' when it's appropriate, without any mortal's help.]]
wield one]]



[[WMG: Murphy not taking up Fidelacchius in ''Ghost Story.'']]
In ''Ghost Story'', there were several times when the Sword of Faith might have come in handy, most specifically at the end [[spoiler: during the battle with Corpsetaker.]] Murphy, however, never takes it up. It took me until today to realize that she would be unmaking it if she had. Even though she still believes in her oath to protect the denizens of Chicago, she also believes that she had acted against that vow [[spoiler: by killing threats without turning them over to the police.]]
* As of ''Skin Game'', [[spoiler: it's clear that Murphy was right to leave the Sword of Faith out of things, because her calling to wield it was '''only''' ever intended for ''Changes''. It's found a new wielder now who's not oathbound to protect any one city, but rather is committed to defend everyone while living out his scifi-geek heroism fantasies: Butters.]]







[[WMG: If Thomas gets Amorrachius, it will deal with his demon while leaving it intact.]]
Option A: His demon will feed off the cast off energy from the sword as-is, and stay sated as long as he regularly has the sword on or around his person. Rating: Unlikely.

Option B: The sword will show the demon a glimpse of the core power of [[ThePowerOfLove True Love]], God's love (remember: according to the Church, which may or may not be correct about this in Literature/TheDresdenFiles, GodIsFlawed does not apply but HumansAreFlawed does) as reflected in the love given by the wielder of the sword (or something like that), and turn it from a lust demon [[LoveRedeems into a love demon]]. Rating: Less unlikely, and pretty cool.

Option C: The sword's rightfully-held presence will suppress the hunger pangs and [[ShoulderDemons Shoulder Demon aspects]] that the demon emits, without harming or changing it. Rating: Kind of likely, but not so likely as to be a major possibility.

* Option D: The sword's incredible PowerOfLove will utterly ''destroy'' the demon, making Thomas a human.
* Option B seems unlikely to me. Even if the Hunger switches its diet to love, the feeding still consumes life force. That might make things even worse, and a sword that God works through would probably be able to cause a better solution than still feeding on and slowly killing the woman its wielder loves.

[[WMG: Harry will at one point wield all three swords simultaneously]]
Even at the end game of the series I doubt he'll continue to do so, but for one brief shining moment he'll take up all three. Somehow. Maybe even promptly lose all three or drop them. I dunno, we're talking about a guy with a pola powered zombie T-Rex. A guy who already has two of the swords. No one can tell me at some point he won't at least attempt to use all three at once in desperation.
** So, Harry is actually [[Manga/OnePiece Roronoa Zoro?]]

[[WMG: Harry will never, ever wield a sword]]
Harry is, as of Small Favour, the shadowy 'knight' employed by Uriel to screw things up for the Bad Guys. There are three overt Archangels and three Swords, each patronised by Michael, Gabriel or Raphael.

But Uriel has already given Harry a 'sword'. It's apocryphally believed that Uriel was the angel who guarded the Gates of Eden with a ''flaming sword''. And what did he bequeath to Harry? Soulfire, the perfect flaming sword for a wizard with a penchant for fire.

[[WMG: Harry will lose his guardianship of the swords.]]
* At the end of ''Changes,'' [[spoiler: Harry told Susan a lie he knew she would believe and act upon, which led to her first losing her humanity entirely, then being murdered by Harry himself. That's clearly a direct betrayal of her faith in him and her love for him, making him unworthy of the guardianship of the Swords of Love and of Faith.]]
** No, he didn't tell her a lie. He told her something that would make her ask the question that would get her to turn into a vampire. Still a betrayal, though, but at the same time it does not necessarily rule him out as a ''guardian''. It would disqualify him as a ''wielder'' if he had taken up either of those swords at the time, however.
** As of ''Cold Days'', [[spoiler: Murphy retains custody of the Swords, and Harry has no expectation of ever getting them back unless he can somehow shed his mantle as Winter Knight.]]
*** As of Skin Game, [[spoiler:Harry has retaken custody of Amorracchius.]]

[[WMG: Harry will break the Time Travel Law, go back in time and bequeath Amorracchius to Arthur.]]
* He's got to break that law at some point.



[[WMG: Charity will end up wielding ''Amoracchius''.]]

As Michael's sparring partner of 20 years, she knows how to use a sword, and is probably comfortable with that specific style of sword. As protective of her family as she is, love is not a problem. It's also worth noting that some versions of the verse that mentions "faith, hope, and love" translate the greatest of the three not as Love... but as Charity.

[[WMG: Baron Marcone of all people will eventually become the wielder of Amoracchius and a self-made royal]]

Marcone seems to be trying for a slow path to redemption, and while engaged in all sorts of misdeeds made Chicago safer, cares for his people and shows signs of hurt when he loses them. But he has also done the unprecedented and become a mortal accords signatory and is known as a Baron. If he advances further and gains more territory and even other supernatural vassals he could qualify as a king as the start of a bloodline.

On a thematic related note Harry refers to himself depreciatingly as a thug of winter instead of a knight but there is a subtle unasked and unanswered question - what is the difference between a thug and a knight? Relatedly what is the difference between a crime boss and a king? Both collect money for protection with force and are in their position via power and the loyalty of their men. Kings also had to make questionable hard decisions.



[[WMG: Something bad will happen to Sanya in Skin Game]]
* Every five books has to do with the Fallen and the Denarians. They always end up eliminating one of the pre-Harry wielders of one of the Three, and the sword always passes to Harry.
** In Death Masks, we met Shiro. He was killed by the Denarians. Fidelacchius passed to Harry.
** In Small Favor, we got to see Michael get crippled by a Denarian. Amoracchius passed to Harry.
** In Skin Game, death or maiming awaits Sanya. Esperacchius will pass to Harry.
** In Book 20, Harry will give the Three to three deserving wielders, as his prerogative as the Merlin archetype.
* As of Skin Game [[spoiler: Sanya was lead off on a diversion to prevent him from interfering with the heist. If anything happened to him, it wasn't mentioned.]]



[[/folder]]

[[folder:What the swords can do]]

[[WMG: If Thomas gets Amorrachius, it will deal with his demon while leaving it intact.]]
Option A: His demon will feed off the cast off energy from the sword as-is, and stay sated as long as he regularly has the sword on or around his person. Rating: Unlikely.

Option B: The sword will show the demon a glimpse of the core power of [[ThePowerOfLove True Love]], God's love (remember: according to the Church, which may or may not be correct about this in Literature/TheDresdenFiles, GodIsFlawed does not apply but HumansAreFlawed does) as reflected in the love given by the wielder of the sword (or something like that), and turn it from a lust demon [[LoveRedeems into a love demon]]. Rating: Less unlikely, and pretty cool.

Option C: The sword's rightfully-held presence will suppress the hunger pangs and [[ShoulderDemons Shoulder Demon aspects]] that the demon emits, without harming or changing it. Rating: Kind of likely, but not so likely as to be a major possibility.

* Option D: The sword's incredible PowerOfLove will utterly ''destroy'' the demon, making Thomas a human.
* Option B seems unlikely to me. Even if the Hunger switches its diet to love, the feeding still consumes life force. That might make things even worse, and a sword that God works through would probably be able to cause a better solution than still feeding on and slowly killing the woman its wielder loves.



[[WMG: The swords have SoulCuttingBlade s]]

to:

[[WMG: The Each of the swords have SoulCuttingBlade s]]has a SoulCuttingBlade]]



[[WMG: Charity will end up wielding ''Amoracchius''.]]

As Michael's sparring partner of 20 years, she knows how to use a sword, and is probably comfortable with that specific style of sword. As protective of her family as she is, love is not a problem. It's also worth noting that some versions of the verse that mentions "faith, hope, and love" translate the greatest of the three not as Love... but as Charity.

[[WMG: Baron Marcone of all people will eventually become the wielder of Amoracchius and a self-made royal]]

Marcone seems to be trying for a slow path to redemption, and while engaged in all sorts of misdeeds made Chicago safer, cares for his people and shows signs of hurt when he loses them. But he has also done the unprecedented and become a mortal accords signatory and is known as a Baron. If he advances further and gains more territory and even other supernatural vassals he could qualify as a king as the start of a bloodline.

On a thematic related note Harry refers to himself depreciatingly as a thug of winter instead of a knight but there is a subtle unasked and unanswered question - what is the difference between a thug and a knight? Relatedly what is the difference between a crime boss and a king? Both collect money for protection with force and are in their position via power and the loyalty of their men. Kings also had to make questionable hard decisions.

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[[/folder]]

[[folder:Future plot guesses]]

[[WMG: Charity Luccio is going to reforge the swords for some purpose.]]
* To whit:
** Luccio is an extremely talented blacksmith, shown by the fact that she's made ''all'' of the Wardens' swords.
** Two of the three Swords have been reworked in the past, while they were being passed on.
** Is it a coincidence we learn ''both'' of these facts in the same book?
* at some point, the Swords
will end up wielding ''Amoracchius''.be reforged, perhaps into one Sword that serves as some kind of ridiculously overpowered InfinityPlusOneSword. But that possibility aside, the law of conservation of details suggests that forging will happen, and Luccio will be instrumental.
** Conservation of detail may not apply, if Butcher only mentioned the reforging to make nitpickers quit asking him how swords that are ''supposed'' to be 2000 years old could look like a katana (mostly dating to 900 AD or later) or a cavalry saber (17th century).
* If developments in ''Skin Game'' are any example, [[spoiler: it's possible that the Swords reforge ''themselves'' when it's appropriate, without any mortal's help.
]]

As Michael's sparring partner [[WMG: Harry will at one point wield all three swords simultaneously]]
Even at the end game
of 20 years, she knows how the series I doubt he'll continue to do so, but for one brief shining moment he'll take up all three. Somehow. Maybe even promptly lose all three or drop them. I dunno, we're talking about a guy with a pola powered zombie T-Rex. A guy who already has two of the swords. No one can tell me at some point he won't at least attempt to use all three at once in desperation.
** So, Harry is actually [[Manga/OnePiece Roronoa Zoro?]]

[[WMG: Harry will never, ever wield
a sword, sword]]
Harry is, as of Small Favour, the shadowy 'knight' employed by Uriel to screw things up for the Bad Guys. There are three overt Archangels
and is probably comfortable with that specific style of sword. As protective of her family as she is, love is not three Swords, each patronised by Michael, Gabriel or Raphael.

But Uriel has already given Harry
a problem. 'sword'. It's also worth noting apocryphally believed that some versions Uriel was the angel who guarded the Gates of Eden with a ''flaming sword''. And what did he bequeath to Harry? Soulfire, the perfect flaming sword for a wizard with a penchant for fire.

[[WMG: Harry will lose his guardianship
of the verse that mentions "faith, hope, swords.]]
* At the end of ''Changes,'' [[spoiler: Harry told Susan a lie he knew she would believe
and love" translate the greatest act upon, which led to her first losing her humanity entirely, then being murdered by Harry himself. That's clearly a direct betrayal of her faith in him and her love for him, making him unworthy of the three guardianship of the Swords of Love and of Faith.]]
** No, he didn't tell her a lie. He told her something that would make her ask the question that would get her to turn into a vampire. Still a betrayal, though, but at the same time it does
not necessarily rule him out as Love... but a ''guardian''. It would disqualify him as Charity.

a ''wielder'' if he had taken up either of those swords at the time, however.
** As of ''Cold Days'', [[spoiler: Murphy retains custody of the Swords, and Harry has no expectation of ever getting them back unless he can somehow shed his mantle as Winter Knight.]]
*** As of Skin Game, [[spoiler:Harry has retaken custody of Amorracchius.]]

[[WMG: Baron Marcone of all people Harry will eventually become break the Time Travel Law, go back in time and bequeath Amorracchius to Arthur.]]
* He's got to break that law at some point.

[[WMG: Murphy not taking up Fidelacchius in ''Ghost Story.'']]
In ''Ghost Story'', there were several times when the Sword of Faith might have come in handy, most specifically at the end [[spoiler: during the battle with Corpsetaker.]] Murphy, however, never takes it up. It took me until today to realize that she would be unmaking it if she had. Even though she still believes in her oath to protect the denizens of Chicago, she also believes that she had acted against that vow [[spoiler: by killing threats without turning them over to the police.]]
* As of ''Skin Game'', [[spoiler: it's clear that Murphy was right to leave the Sword of Faith out of things, because her calling to wield it was '''only''' ever intended for ''Changes''. It's found a new
wielder now who's not oathbound to protect any one city, but rather is committed to defend everyone while living out his scifi-geek heroism fantasies: Butters.]]

[[WMG: Something bad will happen to Sanya in Skin Game]]
* Every five books has to do with the Fallen and the Denarians. They always end up eliminating one
of the pre-Harry wielders of one of the Three, and the sword always passes to Harry.
** In Death Masks, we met Shiro. He was killed by the Denarians. Fidelacchius passed to Harry.
** In Small Favor, we got to see Michael get crippled by a Denarian.
Amoracchius and a self-made royal]]

Marcone seems
passed to be trying for a slow path Harry.
** In Skin Game, death or maiming awaits Sanya. Esperacchius will pass
to redemption, and while engaged in all sorts of misdeeds made Chicago safer, cares for Harry.
** In Book 20, Harry will give the Three to three deserving wielders, as
his people and shows signs of hurt when he loses them. But he has also done the unprecedented and become a mortal accords signatory and is known as a Baron. If he advances further and gains more territory and even other supernatural vassals he could qualify as a king prerogative as the start Merlin archetype.
* As
of Skin Game [[spoiler: Sanya was lead off on a bloodline.

On a thematic related note Harry refers
diversion to himself depreciatingly as a thug of winter instead of a knight but there is a subtle unasked and unanswered question - what is the difference between a thug and a knight? Relatedly what is the difference between a crime boss and a king? Both collect money for protection prevent him from interfering with force and are in their position via power and the loyalty of their men. Kings also had heist. If anything happened to make questionable hard decisions.him, it wasn't mentioned.]]

[[/folder]]
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Related to the above entry, in ''Battle Ground'' we see someone on a RoaringRampageOfRevenge have ''Fidelacchius'' [[StealthPun cut it out]] of him. Unlike guessed above, though, this is described as ''very'' painful for the person in question - though perhaps this was because the desire for revenge was all their own? Put another way, to quote Solzhenitsyn:

to:

Related to the above entry, in ''Battle Ground'' we see someone on a RoaringRampageOfRevenge have ''Fidelacchius'' [[StealthPun cut it out]] of him. Unlike guessed above, though, this is described as ''very'' painful for the person in question - though perhaps this was because the desire for revenge was all their own? Put another way, to quote Solzhenitsyn:as by ''Creator/AleksandrSolzhenitsyn'':



Maybe, if done properly, all three of the swords can do something like that, and it has nothing to do with ''Fidelacchius''' new form as [[spoiler: a lightsaber]]?

to:

Maybe, if done properly, in the right way, all three of the swords can ''could'' do something like that, and it has nothing to do with ''Fidelacchius''' new form as [[spoiler: a lightsaber]]?
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Added DiffLines:

[[WMG: The swords have SoulCuttingBlade s]]
''Battle Ground spoiler''

Related to the above entry, in ''Battle Ground'' we see someone on a RoaringRampageOfRevenge have ''Fidelacchius'' [[StealthPun cut it out]] of him. Unlike guessed above, though, this is described as ''very'' painful for the person in question - though perhaps this was because the desire for revenge was all their own? Put another way, to quote Solzhenitsyn:
--> If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to [cut out] a piece of his own heart?
Maybe, if done properly, all three of the swords can do something like that, and it has nothing to do with ''Fidelacchius''' new form as [[spoiler: a lightsaber]]?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
It is "Battle Ground" not "Battle Grounds".


* Also, as of ''Battle Grounds'', both he and Amoracchius are being hidden away on Demonreach.

to:

* Also, as of ''Battle Grounds'', Ground'', both he and Amoracchius are being hidden away on Demonreach.



** Jossed as of Battle Grounds:[[spoiler: Marcone is now a Denarian.]]

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** Jossed as of Battle Grounds:[[spoiler: Ground:[[spoiler: Marcone is now a Denarian.]]
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As Michael's sparring partner of 20 years, she knows how to use a sword, and is probably comfortable with that specific style of sword. As protective of her family as she is, love is not a problem. It's also worth noting that some versions of the verse that mentions "faith, hope, and love" translate the greatest of the three not as Love... but as Charity.

to:

As Michael's sparring partner of 20 years, she knows how to use a sword, and is probably comfortable with that specific style of sword. As protective of her family as she is, love is not a problem. It's also worth noting that some versions of the verse that mentions "faith, hope, and love" translate the greatest of the three not as Love... but as Charity.Charity.

[[WMG: Baron Marcone of all people will eventually become the wielder of Amoracchius and a self-made royal]]

Marcone seems to be trying for a slow path to redemption, and while engaged in all sorts of misdeeds made Chicago safer, cares for his people and shows signs of hurt when he loses them. But he has also done the unprecedented and become a mortal accords signatory and is known as a Baron. If he advances further and gains more territory and even other supernatural vassals he could qualify as a king as the start of a bloodline.

On a thematic related note Harry refers to himself depreciatingly as a thug of winter instead of a knight but there is a subtle unasked and unanswered question - what is the difference between a thug and a knight? Relatedly what is the difference between a crime boss and a king? Both collect money for protection with force and are in their position via power and the loyalty of their men. Kings also had to make questionable hard decisions.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
new guess


This also means that it might be able to [[spoiler:cure White Court vampires, as Thomas has described being White Court as being a man with a demon inside. The new form of Fidelacchius might be able to slay the demon and leave the man intact.]]

to:

This also means that it might be able to [[spoiler:cure White Court vampires, as Thomas has described being White Court as being a man with a demon inside. The new form of Fidelacchius might be able to slay the demon and leave the man intact.]]]]

[[WMG: Charity will end up wielding ''Amoracchius''.]]

As Michael's sparring partner of 20 years, she knows how to use a sword, and is probably comfortable with that specific style of sword. As protective of her family as she is, love is not a problem. It's also worth noting that some versions of the verse that mentions "faith, hope, and love" translate the greatest of the three not as Love... but as Charity.
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** Jossed as of Battle Grounds:[[Spoiler Marcone is now a Denarian.]]

to:

** Jossed as of Battle Grounds:[[Spoiler Grounds:[[spoiler: Marcone is now a Denarian.]]
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to:

**Jossed as of Battle Grounds:[[Spoiler Marcone is now a Denarian.]]
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added notes to Thomas wielding the Sword of Love entry


Almost every action that Thomas has ever taken in the series has been motivated by love, either for Justine or for Harry. Even better, the holy sword might well allow him to control his demon half, or even suppress it entirely.

to:

Almost every action that Thomas has ever taken in the series has been motivated by love, either for Justine or for Harry. Even better, the holy sword might well allow him to control his demon half, or even suppress slay it entirely.entirely without killing himself.




to:

* Also, as of ''Battle Grounds'', both he and Amoracchius are being hidden away on Demonreach.

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''Fidelacchius'''s current form [[spoiler:of a blade which destroys the spiritual but not the mortal flesh means that when Butters uses the Sword against a Fallen, the mortal host will be fine but the Fallen inside will suffer horribly from it. The only pain the host will suffer is if the Fallen's reaction to the pain causes it by consequence. This also means Butters might be able to purify the Denarius itself by destroying the Fallen within]].

to:


''Fidelacchius'''s current form [[spoiler:of a blade which destroys the spiritual but not the mortal flesh means that when Butters uses the Sword against a Fallen, the mortal host will be fine but the Fallen inside will suffer horribly from it. The only pain the host will suffer is if the Fallen's reaction to the pain causes it by consequence. This also means Butters might be able to purify the Denarius itself by destroying the Fallen within]].within]].

This also means that it might be able to [[spoiler:cure White Court vampires, as Thomas has described being White Court as being a man with a demon inside. The new form of Fidelacchius might be able to slay the demon and leave the man intact.]]

Added: 581

Changed: 624

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[[WMG: Murphy is a descendent of King Arthur]]

to:

\n* While I don't know about the main timeline Marcone, I think Mirror Mirror Marcone will be a Knight. If Harry was evil or more in the dark side, then Marcone could have been pushed closer to Shiro and the other Knights. If Marcone was saved by Shiro sacrificing himself for him, it would move Marcone and he could be like Sanya, a penitent man seeking to do good. He will take up ''Fidelacchius'' and when Main-Harry is running from people thinking he is Mirror-Harry and trying to kill him, Marcone will drive up, look at Harry and say, "Come with me if you want to live."

[[WMG: Murphy is a descendent descendant of King Arthur]]



* Specifically, Amoracchius will lead to the downfall of House Raith, since their weakness is genuine love. Fidelacchius will be the death of House Malvora, since the power of Faith (or as an alternate interpretation, the strength of courage and trust) would be a logical weakness against fear. Finally, Esperacchius will defeat House Skavis, since they feed on despair, which would logically be countered by Hope. Furthermore, I believe that this has already been foreshadowed by Butcher, based on how Thomas paraphrased the verse in I Corinthians in Blood Rites: 'When every star in the heavens grows cold, and when silence lies once more on the face of the deep, three things will endure: faith, hope, and love... Father makes all of us memorize that passage. Like when parents put those green yucky-face stickers on the poisonous cleaning products under the kitchen sink.' There are three Houses or the white court, and three swords; the Sword of Love, the Sword of Faith, and the Sword of Hope. Finally, the curse 'Empty Night' has only been used by white court vamps. Now, if there was one night that the White Court knew that Faith, Hope, and Love, would endure, and those forces had the power to destroy them, it would make sense they would swear and cuss by that night.

to:

* Specifically, Amoracchius will lead to the downfall of House Raith, since their weakness is genuine love. Fidelacchius will be the death of House Malvora, since the power of Faith (or as an alternate interpretation, the strength of courage and trust) would be a logical weakness against fear. Finally, Esperacchius will defeat House Skavis, since they feed on despair, which would logically be countered by Hope. Furthermore, I believe that this has already been foreshadowed by Butcher, based on how Thomas paraphrased the verse in I Corinthians in Blood Rites: 'When every star in the heavens grows cold, and when silence lies once more on the face of the deep, three things will endure: faith, hope, and love... Father makes all of us memorize that passage. Like when parents put those green yucky-face stickers on the poisonous cleaning products under the kitchen sink.' There are three Houses or the white court, and three swords; the Sword of Love, the Sword of Faith, and the Sword of Hope. Finally, the curse 'Empty Night' has only been used by white court vamps. Now, if there was one night that the White Court knew that Faith, Hope, and Love, would endure, and those forces had the power to destroy them, it would make sense they would swear and cuss by that night.night.

[[WMG: ''Fidelacchius'' is now the Fallen's worst nightmare]]
''Peace Talk spoilers''
''Fidelacchius'''s current form [[spoiler:of a blade which destroys the spiritual but not the mortal flesh means that when Butters uses the Sword against a Fallen, the mortal host will be fine but the Fallen inside will suffer horribly from it. The only pain the host will suffer is if the Fallen's reaction to the pain causes it by consequence. This also means Butters might be able to purify the Denarius itself by destroying the Fallen within]].
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** Even TheOtherWiki agrees! "''He is the only White Court vampire shown to be capable of true love, which is rare even by human standards in the Dresdenverse; it should be noted that as the actual son of a king, this theoretically makes him almost uniquely suited to wield Amoracchius, should the need arise.''"

to:

** Even TheOtherWiki Wiki/TheOtherWiki agrees! "''He is the only White Court vampire shown to be capable of true love, which is rare even by human standards in the Dresdenverse; it should be noted that as the actual son of a king, this theoretically makes him almost uniquely suited to wield Amoracchius, should the need arise.''"
Willbyr MOD

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** So, Harry is actually [[OnePiece Roronoa Zoro?]]

to:

** So, Harry is actually [[OnePiece [[Manga/OnePiece Roronoa Zoro?]]

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