History WMG / Discworld

Vetinari, being the genre savvy fellow he is, knows about narrative casualty. Instead of just going along with it, or using it occasionally to his advantage (like Granny Weatherwax), Vetinari is actively seeking out what he deems to be 'main characters' and is manipulating them to either be on his side, or be afraid of him. At the least he is using them to further his own ends.

[[WMG: Vetinari is a JustForFun/TimeLord.]]
No one's been a Time Lord yet on this page. Also, it would explain Fat!Vetinari of the first couple books. It's far from usual for a human being to go from really fat (I haven't read any of the books where he's described as such, but one of the Literature/{{Discworld}} pages on Wiki/ThisVeryWiki describes the Vetinari of the first couple books as outright obese) to gaunt. Perhaps the reason he's implied to have looked much the same as a teenager as he does now is that, like Romana, he has a pretty good degree of control over his regenerations. It would also explain why he's so freakishly clever. ''And'' why when he [[IDoNotDrinkWine does drink... wine]], he only gets a little chatty and is a little less than blindingly fast in completing a CrosswordPuzzle, even though he doesn't often drink, and so would not have built up a tolerance, and, again, is quite gaunt. While it would be strange for a Time Lord to need a cane, as they have a low-key HealingFactor, he may have healed ages ago and just thinks it gives him extra gravitas. Perhaps he [[SwordCane keeps assassiny things in it]].
** The main problem with the sword cane thing is that in Making Money he practically outright denies that he has one, and in The Truth, his preferred weapon is a sharp knife thing. Also Findthee Swing is described as having a swordstick which rattled.
** Or the cane is actually his TARDIS.

[[WMG: Lord Vetinari is a perfectly ordinary human being.]]
Despite his cunning, his magnetism, the scalpel-sharp wit he employs and a dexterity to juggle virtually anything (cities included), Havelock Vetinari is quite simply a 100% mortal man. He lives simply and has no thoughts for himself; yet a corkscrew mind is required to keep the wayward clock of Ahnk Morpork ticking. The FACT that he could be-- and in all likelihood, is-- a mundane person is potentially more frightening than the idea of his being a vampire, zombie, Death/Time hybrid or the like. Look at what he's accomplished WITHOUT those supernatural traits. Then smile politely and back away slowly...
* Ooh, Look at you. you're so sharp you'll cut yourself.
* I don't think "ordinary" is the word you're looking for. Mortal, certainly, but given his accomplishments and skills, he is, by definition, neither mundane nor ordinary.
* Vetinari is however quite happy to allow people to believe he is a vampire as he recognises that if someone not understanding how vital he is to the city comes after him it is after all better they do so with seasoning and religious symbols than with say a sharp knife.
* Do you mean that he is like Carrot's sword?

[[WMG: Vetinari is a male witch.]]
It's been made quite clear that witches and wizards are gender-bound only by convention, not a biological imperative. Vetinari had the perfect qualifications to being a witch apart from his gender and birth. Consider how similar his way of leading Ankh-Morpork is to the way Granny Weatherwax runs Lancre, and how he knows so many tricks that are like magic unless you know how they are done (which doesn't make them any less magical). Like Granny Aching, Vetinari would never acknowledge the title of a witch, but fulfills every qualification in the book. He may even have talent for genuine magic, but like all good witches, refrains from ever using it.
* It's true that he does use headology on people. And I remember instances where he intimidates people by being very polite, like the way Granny Weatherwax also intimidates people. But when he was a boy, he was being trained as an Assassin, not a witch, as we know from ''Literature/{{Night Watch|Discworld}}''. From the history we know of him, where does witching fit in?
* Also he can do the trick of being invisible, like Tiffany Aching does in I shall wear midnight.
** Granny Aching never got any official witch-training either, and never did anything exactly magical, but there's no doubt that she still was a witch in every way it counts.
*** He does do a ''little'' magic. He "borrows" the perceptions of rats, scorpions, and snakes(as seen in ''Men At Arms''); and communicates with them. This is by large his spy network; he just employs enough human ones for credibility.
*** That wasn't Borrowing, that was negotiation. The rats in his dungeon were probably related to the Clan from ''Amazing Maurice'', and the spiders and scorpions (who'd been winning out over the rats before he intervened) had presumably eaten enough of them to gain intelligence as well.
* The fact that Vetinari prefers to ''read'' music, rather than performing or listening to it, could be a lot more interesting if this is so: ''Maskerade'' establishes that you can't pursue careers in both witchcraft and music. Conserving his talent, perhaps?
* He's also seen to teleport (so to speak, it's off screen, but from Wonse's reaction it's definitely teleportation) in '' Guards, Guards!'', and in ''Jingo'' manages to turn around a donkey in a passage too small for it to do so, breaking the laws of physics. In the same book, he easily juggles four melons and three knives, having never juggled before, and says he can do it just because he knows where they're supposed to be - and straight after that he magics a hatched egg into Colon's hat. Between all of those examples and his invisibility in ''Night Watch'', he has an obvious magical ability to manipulate space, and whether he takes up enough of it to be visible or not, just by knowing what he wants it to do.
** And he was definitely invisible in ''Night Watch'', but not yet aware of his powers. He attributed his skills to camouflage, but when we see him using it he's clearly doing more than just blending in - camouflage isn't so good it makes envelopes move by themselves. Perhaps the camouflage was a kind of crutch, as in a lot of fictional worlds, belief is a major part of magic, so simply camouflaging himself and believing it was enough to make him invisible - in the same way he believed he could get the donkey out of the minaret in ''Jingo'' - was enough to power his magic before he realised what it was. By ''Night Watch'', as we see in the graveyard, his skills of invisibility are now good enough he no longer needs the camouflage.

[[WMG: Vetinari can detect auras and use them to know the emotions of people around him.]]
Vetinari has been able to do some strange things that can always be explained by him just feeling the emotional atmosphere of a room. He can tell when Moist von Lipwig is about to try to cough to announce his presence without looking at him. He knows exactly how long to stare at several characters for just long enough to make them uncomfortable, and then for 5 seconds after that. Plus, it just seems like something he could reasonably do, or at least a less mystical version of the same ability.

Creator/TerryPratchett has hinted that Vetinari prohibited street theater because he knows something. Knowing that mimes are killers for their Guild, who don't make his fellow Assassins' usual mistakes, might just be it.

Like the zombie theory, but on a bigger scale. Vetinari will become the patron deity of Ankh-Morpork after his passing, and continue to guide the city for the rest of eternity. While simultaneously manipulating the other gods into making him their leader. That's right, Vetinari will become the de facto ruler of the world.

[[WMG: If Pratchett ever knowingly writes his last Discworld book, Vetinari will die]]
Vetinari is widely accepted by, if not most, at least a ''large'' number of fans as the series most awesome character. He appeared (possibly, or maybe an alternate version of him, or maybe just not him at all, but never mind) in the first book, becomes the series' reigning MagnificentBastard, and will cause a fairly massive outcry if Pratchett ever kills him off. There are quite a few succession theories, but Ankh-Morpork without Vetinari might be quite difficult to write about, as well. If Vetinari dies, it might be the right time for the Discworld to die with him.
* Or, as a similarly-climactic finale, the last Discworld book could be written with Vetinari ''as the protagonist''. The series' penultimate social magician, finally revealing the secrets of his Magnificent Bastardry for all to see!

[[WMG: Vetinari is the rightful heir to the throne of Ankh-Morpork]]
1. He's a member of the aristocracy.
2. We know little about his origins other than having an aunt.
And even she is shown to have come from a mysterious other city - mention is made of Genua or Pseudopolis, but we never see what. There's also no mention of the Vetinaris having an Ankh-Morpork family home, the way the Ramkins or Selachiis do.
3. He's well tuned to the public need.
4. Everything he does is to the betterment of the city.
5. Both he and Carrot are repeatedly mentioned as having fathomless blue eyes...and there's a rumour going round that Vetinari dyes his hair. The reader assumes it's from grey to black, but what if it were red?
* It follows that he's Carrot's long lost brother, who was at school in the Assasin's Guild when Mom, Dad, and Little Brother went on the fated carriage ride. They're so different because [[LeaningOnTheFourthWall they embody different narrative roles and archetypes]]. (And if Vimes ever found out, he'd go *spare*.
* If I remember, Vetinari's eye colour was stated once, in Guards! Guards! so maybe it isn't very important. As for his hair, the colour he has was actually never stated. It can be grey or, lets say, boring mouse brown dyed to black or some more interesting shade of brown, like auburn etc. Readers just assume he is black of hair, because it somehow fits him. Also maybe it has to do with his vaguely-Italian name, that he is expected to be dark-haired.

[[WMG: Vetinari is a Lensman]]
Not a Time Lord or a plain aura-perceiver, but a wearer of the Lens. He has an uncanny ability to know what is going on in other peoples' minds, seemingly better than they do themselves, and to predict what they will do next even in apparently random situations (for example, when Wonse is rushing frantically about the palace trying to elude him, he always arrives at Wonse's next hiding place before Wonse does, even though Wonse is acting in pure panic and doesn't know what he's doing himself). He is similarly unnaturally well-informed about all manner of happenings and events, no matter how minor or obscure. His network of spies and informers is merely a blind - he knows pretty well what they are going to report before they report it. He always manages to get people to do what he wants them to do regardless of what their original intentions were before he spoke to them, and they are never quite clear how they came to change their minds. He caused Winder to die from pure fear by amplifying the existing fear in Winder's mind to lethal levels. He wears a glove to conceal his Lens.

That wasn't true- Vetinari can't actually be omniscient. But it didn't matter, because on the Disc, belief is more important than truth. So imagine the entire city of Ahnk-Morpork, believing that Vetinari isn't human...[[ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve and so making that real]].

Like the Duchess of Borogravia, Vetinari has been uplifted by the belief of the people he rules. That's why he doesn't need to eat or sleep. That's why he can drink enough alcohol to get an entire hall of football coaches roaring drunk and not even stumble. That's why he may never die. He's no longer mortal.

Just as "there are no female wizards", enter Esk and the Wizards of Krull, "there are no male witches". But there are several people who have been referred to being people who are as close to be witches as possible whilst in trousers, such as Mr. Brooks and Jason Ogg. After all, 99% of magic is knowing one extra fact. Insulting Mr. Brooks (the Royal Beekeeper) is almost as dangerous as insulting a witch. Jason and Brooks both reacted in the "correct" way to elves, and seemed resistant to glamour; Jason even got warnings about the incursion. Even Granny herself considers witchcraft less about wearing pointy hats and doing magic, and more about a point of view. She considers Mrs Palm to be a "practically a witch" even though acts of negotiable affection would definitely not constitute witchcraft. The simple fact is that it is possible to be a witch whilst not being aware of that fact, so why not do that and be male?
* According to Granny, there are enchantresses (female wizards) and warlocks (male witches), but these don't really count somehow. Perhaps they have the innate abilities Wizards and Witches have, but lack the proper [[strike:narrative push]] education/etc to use these abilities.
** Or perhaps Granny is just a perpetrator of good old-fashioned sexism. Or, even more likely, of good old-fashioned narcissism: Them other girl wizards weren't taught by a Weatherwax, were they?
*** Maybe Granny Weatherwax is just ''wrong''.
*** Bite your tongue!
* Who dresses in black, always seems to be thinking about six steps ahead of everyone else on average, makes knowing all the facts his job, and is dangerously GenreSavvy, and as iron-willed as Granny herself? ''Vetinari'', of course.
** ...I think I have a new [[{{OTP}} OT]]CrackPairing...
* Walter Plinge [[spoiler: or at least his daft side]] is another candidate for latent male witch. Who else but a witch could make dead rose stems bloom in the darkness, or [[spoiler: feign stabbing a man so convincingly that his target is actually compelled to die on cue]]? Witches are attracted to masks and stages, and Walter could've been an excellent witch if he hadn't opted to specialize in music instead.

[[WMG: Greebo's a fiend from hell.]]
Nanny Ogg says so in ''Witches Abroad''. (This troper thinks she was speaking metaphorically, admitting for once that he ''wasn't'' still the cute little kitten she treated him as, but the theory appears to have been lost sometime in the past six months and it may as well be replaced.)
* Except Lancre hasn't been overrun with fiend-spawned cats, despite most of them being Greebo's offspring. Granted, there ''was'' that two-headed kitten, but that's just genetics.

[[WMG: If Pratchett ever knowingly writes his last Discworld book, it will be a witch book]]
The witch books seem to be the ones most concerned with endings, and the end of an era and passing of the torch in particular.
** Well, the final Discworld book, to be published posthumously, will be ''The Shepherd's Crown,'' a Tiffany Aching book. No word (yet) on whether or not "knowingly" had anything to do with it. So this guess is kind of right, anyway, and that makes me sad.

Like her "little jiggit", she taught herself Borrowing, intuitively using this talent to commune with the sheep and her dogs. When she sensed her approaching death, as all witches do, she stretched this gift to its limit, and achieved a feat roughly on par with Granny Weatherwax's bee-swarm control: she Borrowed the slow, sleepy, collective mind of the Land Under Wave, ''the Chalk itself'', leaving her failing body behind. She's still there, a part of the land she loves, watching over Tiffany and occasionally helping her.

[[WMG: Granny Weatherwax isn't a female alternate of Vimes, she's a female alternate Literature/SherlockHolmes]]
They're both proud, unsociable, highly talented GoodIsNotNice {{Guile Hero}}es who are thin and wiry, have intense pale eyes, and are interested in beekeeping. The major difference is that, apart from being rural and female, Esme Weatherwax is in an occupation that requires a certain amount of common sense and a broader skill set, and she's not in a position that allows for any self-destructive habits.

We know that they were very young at the time Black Aliss died and they do seem to know a lot about her.

[[WMG: Captain Carrot is an incarnation of ''Literature/StrangerInAStrangeLand'''s Valentine Michael Smith.]]
Both are amazingly kind, competent, ''simple'' humans who were raised by non-humans. Both teach their older, culturally-human mentors about humanity. And it's implied in ''Stranger'' that Mike's bodily form is just one of the incarnations of the Archangel Michael, who goes on "assignment" from time to time.

In his early appearences Detritus is apparently [[TheDitz really dumb even by troll standards]]. He has worked in many different places and been fired from all of them.
Later on he joins the Watch in an attempt to become more respectable and turns out to be fairly intelligent (sure, he has his special helmet, but can a cooling fan really make that much difference?). His hate for drug dealers also seems somehow personal. A possible explanation is that slab very nearly ended up ruining his life, or at least his relationship with Ruby.

[[WMG: Sam Vimes is being observed by the [[Franchise/GreenLantern Green Lantern Corps]]. ]]
For the cheap seats - the Green Lantern Corps are made of individuals with extraordinary willpower. Vimes defeated an entity of pure malevolent rage that is an untold age with willpower alone. The only reason they haven't come for him already is because Vimes still doesn't trust magic one bit, and put yourself in his boots for a moment - if you saw a flying green ring bearing down on you, what would you think?
* More likely the Guardians have had to actively program the rings such that Vimes could ''never'' become a Green Lantern. A man basically built of a pure willpower core with a few scraps of meat attached is fine, but he's also completely anti-authoritarian (despite being a figure of authority himself)--would you want to walk up to him and say, "We've decided that we (and only we!) have the authority to run the galaxy, because we're older and smarter and ''better'' than the rest of you idiotic children. By the way, here's a ring of limitless potential that can do absolutely anything you tell it to do." Vimeses have a habit of doing bad things to leaders that they suspect don't have the best interests of their subjects at heart--Wolfgang, Lorenzo the Kind, Lord Rust... the ones that survive don't do it happily.
** The Guardians have had quite enough of that from Alan Scott, who has a ring but isn't a Corps member (and both sides are happier that way). They '''really don't''' want to deal with another one.
[[WMG: The Summoning Dark is the [[ComicBook/GreenLantern Red Lantern (Rage) Entity]]. ]]
The readers were never told what the being looks like, only that the symbol resembles an eye with a tail.
** Alternatively, this is the psychotic and would-be world-dominating entity Odin's Eye from the ''Webcomic/BratHalla'' universe.

[[WMG: Carrot's Sword is magical.]]
In ''Literature/TheColourOfMagic'', Rincewind mentions heroes tend to carry unprotected magic swords that mess with all nearby magical experiments. A king would live in the city, so it would be pretty important not to mess with all the magical experiments that they ever do. As such, his magic sword would be protected. Possibly so well that it emits less magic than a normal sword.
* Carrot's sword is magical in the same sense that absolute zero is a temperature.

Because the universe seems determined to make Vimes hire people he doesn't want in his Watch. Now that he's got a vampire, there is only one hurdle left to clear.
* That does seem possible, although the universe would have to work quite a bit harder even though Vimes is not strictly prejudiced against wizards the way he is against vampires. As wizards try not to interfere with the ordinary working of the city anymore, and Vimes (and presumably Vetinari) would not like magic used in policing in the sense of 'magic [criminals] into cells...wave a wand to find out who's guilty...magic men good' (from Thud), then a wizard in the Watch would only need be used as a sort of liason, to step in whenever a magical crime occurred in the city. As this is presumably something the wizards would already come down on, or the Watch would inform them of if it happened, there would seem no need for such an officer. I wouldn't be surprised if Ridcully joined the citizen's militia though (I still love how the President of the Guild of ''Thieves'' is a special constable of the Watch via the militia).
* Already done. The Librarian is an auxilliary member of the Watch, and if you've read Light Fantastic, then you know he IS a wizard, albeit morphed.
** It'll be Rincewind. Technically a wizard, but no fear of abusing magic at all!
*** On account of how he really doesn't have any!
*** Or at the very least, nothing that's useful.
** Only it'll be one of those honorary paper badges, like they give little kids, and the Librarian currently has. Although, mentioning the Librarian...
** Not only is the Librarian a Special Constable, it is mentioned in ''Men at Arms'' that the University Dean tried to join the Militia. If a wizard does get involved in the Watch, the Dean is not to be ruled out.
*** Probably jossed by the time of ''Literature/UnseenAcademicals'', as the Dean has moved to Pseudopolis. Might have done a stint of working with the Watch sometime before that, though, and not had it mentioned.
** Then again, Vimes has mentioned before that he ''likes'' the Wizards, mainly because the problems they cause tend to have nothing to do with the city's laws, and don't lead to paperwork.
* ''CSI: Ankh-Morpork''
** "Foul Ole Ron told you, then? Did he mention... * GlassesPull* shrimp?" '''[[MemeticMutation YYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH]][[ContinuityNod !!!!!]]'''
** Didn't the series go there when Cheery Littlebottom joined the Watch as a [[ForensicDrama forensic alchemist]]? * imagines Cheery in [[PerkyGoth black lipstick and her hair and beard in pigtails]]*
*** Nah, that'd be NWCIS (Night Watch Criminal Investigative Services).
* This has already happened in [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/5423509/1/Moving-Pictures-Part-Two-The-Sequel some fanfic]]; the wizard in the watch is Victor Tugelbend (from ''Literature/MovingPictures''). The reasoning is that victor is a misfit looking for an easy job with no lifting where he can use his brains. Carrot recognises it, and recruits him to the Cable Street Particulars as a detective. Carrot explains this to Vimes by pointing out that Victor technically ''isn't'' a wizard: he washed out of every exam he took and remains a civilian. The fact he is a civilian with a magical knowledge that equals an eighth-level Mage is carefully not mentioned.

[[WMG: Nobby is an orc]]
His physical description isn't a great way from that of [[spoiler: Nutt]] - a short, ugly humanoid with a talent for not dying. Much has been made of nobody being ''quite'' sure Nobbs is human, and he seems to be considered human mostly by default, as no other race has claimed him - orcs haven't been around to do so. His unpleasant behaviour is also a bit closer to his ancestral calling than the carefully-conditioned [[spoiler: Nutt]].

Vetinari knows it, which is why Nobbs hasn't been kicked out of the watch despite his thieving. When a new ethnic group starts to have a strong presence in Ankh-Morpork, Vetinari tends to insist that one gets hired by the Watch. There are plans to make contact with the lost orcs in Uberwald, and Vetinari expects a wave of orc immigration after that - so, being able to reveal that there's ''already'' an orcish watchman will save him a long argument with Vimes one day.
** Furthermore, in ''Snuff'', a female goblin takes a very great liking to Nobby, as she thinks he's quite attractive. The goblin tribe, in general, readily accepts him. And Nobby, in return, is quite flattered and gets on well with them. Orcs and Goblins are often portrayed as getting on extremely well (if not two branches of the same family tree) -- in some settings, hobgoblins are actually what happens if an orc and a goblin mate.
** Nobby's parents are mentioned several times in the series, and there's no indication that they are (or in the case of his father, ''was'') anything but human. Of course, with how his dad spent a lot of time in prison and was certainly abusive, it could well be that Nobby wasn't his biological son. So technically, depending a little of what his Mum got up to, Nobby could be a half-orc. Which would explain his lack of certain orcish traits, such as the super-strength and photographic memory -- as half human and half orc he was unlucky enough to get the ''worst'' half of both species.

[[WMG: The Eighth son of the Eighth son of the Eighth son of the Eighth son of the Eighth son of the Eighth son of the Eighth son of the Eighth son would result in...]]
[[AuthorInsert ...Terry Pratchett]]
* He's an only child.
** In this world, maybe, but he was really born on the Disc, which couldn't handle that much magic, and the laws of reality were forced to extrude him into another world (ours) in the role of supreme god of the Disc.
*** So Roundworld is Pratchett’s accidental version of [[Literature/{{Sourcery}} Maligree’s Wonderful Garden]]?

* WMG/RaisingTaxes

[[WMG:Mr. Shine is half human.]]
That's why he's carbon-based rather than silicon like other trolls.

[[WMG: Princess Esmerelda Margaret Note Spelling will subvert the UnfortunateName trope.]]

*** Jossed by ''Literature/UnseenAcademicals'', as the Dean has moved to Pseudopolis.

* It would begin slowly, first with watchmen and civilians from outside Ankh-Morpork simply not believing Vimes is dead, because Vimes cannot die if there are still things to be done -he'd go spare!-. So people would refuse to believe news about his death and would begin saying he is around, looking over people, specially looking over watchmen, not to protect them, but to see they do a good day of work. Watchmen would begin whispering that if you don't do your job properly, "Old Stoneface will go spare", and that he is bound to show up if things get too out of hand. Maybe it would all be an inside joke for the watchmen, up until the point when a copper is in a tight spot and the joke is the only thing there to keep him from giving up. Eventually, the knowledge of the fact that he is not alive would mix with the common sense that it doesn't mean he's gone. So it would not begin as worship but as respectful fear. "Who watches the watchmen?" "Well, Vimes of course! And death ain't gonna stop him!", and a bit of "WWVD?" So divinity would "happen" to Vimes in a similar, but not exactly the same, that it happened to the Duchess. Eventually, after a couple of years, all it would take would be for one copper to believe Vimes is keeping them safe somehow, and some fortunate coincidence happening, for the faith to become widespread very soon. Then Vimes wakes up one day on Dunmanifestin and goes spare because if being a duke is bad, being a demigod is simply too much, maybe he would even try going to the Disc to tell people to stop believing in him, and we all know how well that would work. And the beauty would be that there won't actually be a god of the watchmen, because a divine Vimes would not be likely to actively interfere with the day to day work of Discworld's watchmen. He would still be very bad news to those gods and anthropomorphic personifications who enjoy playing with people's lives.

** The problem with your refutal is the "self-proclaimed". Like most of the stuff that seems to happen to Vimes, if it happens it's just gonna happen to him (like the being promoted Commander of the Watch, Knighted and subsequently... [=EnDuked=]?), he'll complain about it, mostly to himself, then just go on as if nothing happened. Even if he becomes a god, he'll still be a Watchman first and foremost. Plus, it opens up the chance for Vetinari to reinstate him in the Watch as "ethnic minority" (as he'd be, you know, a demigod), if only because that'd piss Vimes off royally.

As mentioned above, the nature of belief in Discworld affects the object of the belief. We have any number of examples, from Om to the Hogfather, but most pertinently Borogravia's Duchess, described (by herself, no less) as "only a rather stupid woman" when she was alive, but on her death was elevated by the prayers of her desperate subjects to a god. Now consider Vimes' offhand reference in 'Guards! Guards!' to the extreme unlikelihood of there being a God of Watchmen, what with it not being a very glamorous gig, and how Pratchett often likes to set these things up ''decades'' in advance. Then consider: Vimes as he is by the end of 'Thud!' is known to pretty much ''everyone'' as an unstoppable force. He's arrested a dragon, the Patrician, two whole countries, and he's fought trolls, werewolves, quasi-demonic dwarven rage beings, and the weight of history itself, and only lost to the last and even that was a close thing. Watchmen across the continent, in his own words, have been taught to salute him. He has earned the respect and loyalty of every Watchman in Ankh-Morpork, and they fear almost nothing quite so much as the prospect of his "going spare". It has been inferred by Angua ("Vimes puts words in his head") that a large part of the reason Carrot hasn't stepped up to claim his birthright is that "Old Stoneface" has very...''specific'' views about kings, and Carrot is bowing to those views out of respect for the man as much as for the good of the city. He has the respect of both Diamond King of Trolls and the Low King (and the abject terror, no doubt, of any dwarf that claps eyes on the exit wound left on his arm by the Summoning Dark), and by now the majority of the smart undead, both local and Uberwaldean, have figured out that playing "les bugres risibles" with slow, plodding Vimes is a quick route to pain. And finally, he has Lady Sybil, who just plain loves and believes in him, and if he keeps his six o'clock appointments the way he's shown so far, Young Sam will probably follow suit. Likely result: Dunmanifestin is in for a very nasty surprise when Samuel Vimes bites it. Especially since, given that it's Vimes, he won't like it one little bit.

As mentioned above, the nature of belief in Discworld affects the object of the belief. We have any number of examples, from Om to the Hogfather, but most pertinently Borogravia's Duchess, described (by herself, no less) as "only a rather stupid woman" when she was alive, but on her death was elevated by the prayers of her desperate subjects to a godlike force, albeit one with only the ability to move "small things". Now consider Vimes' offhand reference in 'Guards! Guards!' to the extreme unlikelihood of there being a God of Watchmen, what with it not being a very glamorous gig, and how Pratchett often likes to set these things up ''decades'' in advance. Then consider: Vimes as he is by the end of 'Thud!' is known to pretty much ''everyone'' as an unstoppable force. He's arrested a dragon, the Patrician, two whole countries, and he's fought trolls, werewolves, quasi-demonic dwarven rage beings, and the weight of history itself, and only lost to the last and even that was a close thing. Watchmen across the continent, in his own words, have been taught to salute him. He has earned the respect and loyalty of every Watchman in Ankh-Morpork, and they fear almost nothing quite so much as the prospect of his "going spare". It has been inferred by Angua ("Vimes puts words in his head") that a large part of the reason Carrot hasn't stepped up to claim his birthright is that "Old Stoneface" has very...''specific'' views about kings, and Carrot is bowing to those views out of respect for the man as much as for the good of the city. He has the respect of both Diamond King of Trolls and the Low King (and the abject terror, no doubt, of any dwarf that claps eyes on the exit wound left on his arm by the Summoning Dark), and by now the majority of the smart undead, both local and Uberwaldean, have figured out that playing "les bugres risibles" with slow, plodding Vimes is a quick route to pain. And finally, he has Lady Sybil, who just plain loves and believes in him, and if he keeps his six o'clock appointments the way he's shown so far, Young Sam will probably follow suit. Likely result: Dunmanifestin is in for a very nasty surprise when Samuel Vimes bites it. Especially since, given that it's Vimes, he won't like it one little bit.

* Jossed.

[[WMG: Vetinari didn't quite deserve his reputation until after the events of ''Literature/MenAtArms''.]]
See [[WMG/MenAtArms its WMG page]] for the hypothesis.

* That's pretty harsh - the seediness of Ankh-Morpork in Guards! Guards! is nothing compared to the brutal and oppressive surveillance state we see in Night Watch. The improvements to the city in the later books are yet to come, but Men at Arms outright states that Vetinari not only made the city work for the first time in a thousand years, but that it's also become something of an economic heavyweight. Vimes himself concedes that he could not have set up a functioning Watch in Winder's city, as it would just have become another gang - in Vetinari's city, however, these changes are finally possible.

* Alternately, he's the rightful owner because he's the preincarnation of the original Great Wizard of Agatea, just as Cohen is the preincarnation of One Sun Mirror. He ''crafted'' the Luggage in this previous life, same as he constructed the Red Army of golems.

The recurring {{Death}}-summoning ritual is described as requiring a vast amount of the typical magical summoning apparatuses, or more simply with several sticks and an egg or mouse blood. But even the method used by the wizards has been toned down. After all, if the proper rite was cast, Death would truly be bound in Unseen University, potentially causing worldwide problems and irritating him in general. Thus they use one of the lesser methods instead, one that costs them a great lesser deal of resources and doesn't actually bind Death (he's made it somewhat clear that he sticks to his part of the rite out of politeness), though being significant enough to require his attention. Incidentally, Albert went through the whole shebang when trying to invoke the rite backward. He couldn't be too cautious.

* [[ITakeOffenseToThatLastOne It doesn’t benefit the mouse or the chicken foetus]].

** Moist Von Lipwig. Single-handedly (with provocation and threats of death) revived the Royal Post Office in a matter of days, before sorting out the crumbling economy, again in a matter of mere days. This fits with the theory that he is being groomed for the patricianship, (and possibly more) by Vetinari.

Maybe they got bored with how long it took to fly to another star system and decided to turn back. They get pressed into service in some kind of conflict going on in Howondaland, like African ChildSoldiers but in reverse. Nods to ''Series/BeastsOfNoNation'' ensue, as well as some kind of parody of ''Film/LordOfWar'' with Dibbler taking the role of [[Creator/NicholasCage Yuri Orlov]].

Following the same logic as in ''Disworld/NightWatch'', Vimes is switched out with his ancestor's corpse and goes through the entire rebellion as him, eventually decapitating King Lorenzo.

* WMG/NightWatch

* It's true that he does use headology on people. And I remember instances where he intimidates people by being very polite, like the way Granny Weatherwax also intimidates people. But when he was a boy, he was being trained as an Assassin, not a witch, as we know from ''Discworld/NightWatch''. From the history we know of him, where does witching fit in?

He survives on bread and water. ''Literally''. This also explains his slightly changed behavior in ''Discworld/UnseenAcademicals'', he was slightly drunk throughout. The alcohol takes a while to go through, but also takes a while to be absorbed, so is taken in slowly. The laughter and the more-obvious-than-one-would-expect possibly-flirting with Lady Margolotta was Vetinari drunk. Naturally, he is calm and logical, but that's sort of like saying Batman is still using plans. Even if he gets knocked out, that's true.

*** The fat guy from Discworld/TheColourOfMagic was the original. The MagnificentBastard from the later books is a copy.

* This makes so much sense. ''Discworld/GuardsGuards'' says (paraphrasing) "he wasn't actually a dictator; he never told anyone what to do". He simply makes a situation in which people will ''do'' what he wants them to do. It may be he's working towards ''a city that "goes" by itself''. This can explain why (also in ''Guards! Guards!'') he doesn't tell Vimes about the key - he's gotten used to only influencing situations by the most strategic and necessary touches, and Vimes can clearly escape the dungeon by himself - and why (in ''Discworld/FeetOfClay'') he let the Watch solve his poisoning when he knew the answer long before they did - he's decided a competent police force ''will'' be good for a city that runs itself, and he wants to see that they're competent. (Besides the fact that he finds Vimes entertaining.)
[[WMG: Vetinari didn't quite deserve his reputation until after the events of Discworld/MenAtArms.]]

* I ''absolutely love'' this theory. It makes a lot of sense after reading ''Discworld/NightWatch'' too, considering how Vetinari assassinated Lord Winder [[spoiler: after deciding to fight for the Revolutionary cause, if I remember correctly.]] If ''that'' was personal to him and the old night watch were ''strangers'' to young Havelock, just imagine how far he would go for his ''family.''

Originally, he was just a normal person, though admittedly one very skilled in assination techniques and politics. Then, however, he became The Patrician; not ''a'' Patrician, ''The'' Patrician, better than had previously come before. He seemed infallible. Any attempt to depose him failed. He always seemed to know what was happen. People genuinely began to believe that Vetrinari controlled all that happened in the city.

[[WMG:Vetinari didn't become the Patrician until after ''Discworld/{{Mort}}'']]
In ''Discworld/TheColourOfMagic'', the Patrician doesn't seem very much like Vetinari. Also, we're told that Ankh-Morpork has "thieves' guilds", plural, with no information about their legality. In ''Discworld/GuardsGuards'', we're told that Vetinari is responsible for "the legalising of the ancient Guild of Thieves", which already existed. The main reason the Patrician in ''Discworld/TheColourOfMagic'' allegedly has to have been Vetinari is on account of the thieves' guild existing, but he didn't ''found'' it, he just ''legalized'' it when it already existed.

Also, the Patrician in ''Discworld/{{Mort}}'' is stated to be celebrating the 10th anniversary of his having got the job. Susan Sto Helit is born after that and is 16 as of ''Discworld/SoulMusic'', and an adult at the time of ''Discworld/ThiefOfTime'' and ''Discworld/NightWatch'' (which happen at the same time). As of ''Discworld/NightWatch'', Vetinari was apparently in his mid/late teens 30 years in the past. Assuming Susan is 19 in ''Discworld/ThiefOfTime'' (she seems a bit older, but maybe she's just precocious) and was born a year after her parents got married, and Vetinari is 47 in the present day of ''Discworld/NightWatch'' and 17 in the past, he'd have had to become the Patrician when he was [[ImprobableAge merely 17 years old]]. But Snapcase, in fact, became the Patrician in the past of ''Discworld/NightWatch'', right on schedule to be celebrating his 10th anniversary in ''Discworld/{{Mort}}''. So it actually makes perfect sense.

(Incidentally, if Susan was born about a year after ''Discworld/{{Mort}}'', then since Mort's hourglass is turned over at the end, he'd live about 16 years past when he was originally due to die at the age of 16ish. Death seems to imply that Mort may live longer than that ["YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT, said Death coldly. MATHEMATICS ISN'T ALL IT'S CRACKED UP TO BE."], but he might just be telling Mort not to think about it too hard since he'll live a reasonably full life in the 16ish years he has left. In that case, all the maths would work out ''really neatly'', actually.)

* [[Discworld/TheAmazingMauriceAndHisEducatedRodents Darktan]] [[http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5659911/1/The_passing_of_Darktan might be another reincarnation of the same character.]]

[[WMG: The events of Discworld/{{Sourcery}} led Vimes to distrust wizards.]]

Think of it. Back in Hogfather, Death himself had no idea what or who Nobby was. Up until then the only person Death hasn't been sure about was Rincewind. Nobby needs to carry a signed paper around saying he's human, but the only ones who can honestly give testament to that are his 'mother' and a midwife. And we all know how [[Discworld/ThiefOfTime odd things]] can [[Discworld/EqualRites happen at births on the disc]]. . .

* The fact that Death saw enough of Nobby to not recognise him means that he's mortal. Actual immortals, like [[Discworld/ThiefOfTime Lobsang Ludd]], are invisible to him.
** Death can see immortals just fine, actually; he sees Azrael in ''Discworld/ReaperMan'', and the Big A is as eternal an entity as any in the series. He didn't see Lobsang in ''Discworld/ThiefOfTime'' because [[spoiler: Lobsang wasn't fated to cease to exist ''as Lobsang'' by dying, but by merging with his other self]].

* If even '''Carrot''' is cynical enough to realize that no watchman would trust a self-proclaimed "God of Watchmen" enough to worship one, as he says in ''Discworld/TheLastHero'', what watchman is ever going to do so?

** Given his reputation in ''Discworld/{{Snuff}}'', where coppers all over the Sto Plains seem to venerate him and even to non-law enforcement personnel, he's a household word, the evidence in favor of this one seems to be growing...

In Discworld/TheColourOfMagic, Rincewind mentions heroes tend to carry unprotected magic swords that mess with all nearby magical experiments. A king would live in the city, so it would be pretty important not to mess with all the magical experiments that they ever do. As such, his magic sword would be protected. Possibly so well that it emits less magic than a normal sword.

*** Jossed by ''Discworld/UnseenAcademicals'', as the Dean has moved to Pseudopolis.

* This has already happened in [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/5423509/1/Moving-Pictures-Part-Two-The-Sequel some fanfic]]; the wizard in the watch is Victor Tugelbend (from ''Discworld/MovingPictures''). The reasoning is that victor is a misfit looking for an easy job with no lifting where he can use his brains. Carrot recognises it, and recruits him to the Cable Street Particulars as a detective. Carrot explains this to Vimes by pointing out that Victor technically ''isn't'' a wizard: he washed out of every exam he took and remains a civilian. The fact he is a civilian with a magical knowledge that equals an eighth-level Mage is carefully not mentioned.

*** So Roundworld is Pratchett’s accidental version of [[Discworld/{{Sourcery}} Maligree’s Wonderful Garden]]?

* On the one hand, Susan in ''Discworld/SoulMusic'' is summoned and can't get out of the circle until Ridcully lets her out. On the other, on at least one occasion Death has shown up ''outside'' the summoning circle surprising the wizards. Maybe he just has a better sense of his schedule and shows up early to disrupt the ritual?

So far as I can remember, all Rincewind says about his mother is that he is aware that he must of had one, but that he doesn't remember her at all. It would explain a) his ability to survive even when he ''isn't'' being used as her game piece, and b) her apparent personal interest in his success, as she has appeared in person to help him, which would seem to go against her nature of killing people who believe in her (it seems as well, that he actually recognized her in Discworld/TheColourOfMagic, which means it wasn't the first time he's seen her).

* It really fits! The other demigod(s) we meet in the series, [[Discworld/ThiefOfTime Lobsang and Jeremy]], and even Susan in her own way, appear as normal humans but with some uncanny skill related to their heritage. Rincewind is almost ridiculously lucky -- yeah, sure, ''he'' wouldn't agree, but the fact remains that he always manages to be at the right place, at the right time, and in the right way. And he always escapes unscathed; a little bruised and scarred, perhaps, but still in good shape. He's been in countless situations where he absolutely should not survive, and yet somehow managed to survive anyway. And it would even explain why Death, in ''Discworld/{{Eric}},'' said that calling Rincewind human would be "stretching the term a little" but "broadly correct." Rincewind is only half-human!
** And why doesn't Rincewind seem to know that the Lady is his mother? Well, the Lady is unique among the gods in that she only comes when she isn't summoned. Any attempts at summoning her will have the opposite effect and banish her instead. The way she tells Rincewind about it in ''Discworld/TheColourOfMagic,'' it's pretty clear that this isn't by choice but a law she has to obey. In other words, if she wants to be able to give her son any aid at all, she can't let him know who she is. Because if Rincewind knew that his mother was a goddess, there's a risk he would forget himself and ask for her help in a moment of danger -- even a WesternAnimation/{{Daffy Duck}}-style yelp of "Mother!" would be enough to ensure that, nope, his mother can't come to his aid at all. She can't even let the other gods know about her son because some of them don't like her and might seek to cause her pain by attacking her son, or revealing her identity to him. So what happens is that the Lady leaves her infant son in Ankh-Morpork, and then just watches him from afar, occasionally taking the opportunity to reach in and aid him in an indirect way, disguising this as just taking part in the games the gods play with mortal fates... it just so happens that the fate she plays with is her son's, and to his benefit, because that's all she can do for him.

Quoth Discworld/LordsAndLadies: "gods of the chase, who tended to be [[LargeHam hearty]] and [[BoisterousBruiser boisterous]] with [[NoIndoorVoice the tact of a tidal wave]]. Sound familiar?

[[WMG: The Dean (Henry) would have become Archancellor of UU but was 'skipped' in favour of Ridcully because he behaved ''[[AGodAmI especially]]'' badly during the events of ''Discworld/{{Sourcery}}''.]]
This is why he butts heads with Ridcully so much, because he feels he was denied his 'turn'. ''Discworld/InterestingTimes'' also states that (though he wasn’t the Dean) Henry was very 'senior' at the time.

-->Discworld/{{Mort}}

* He may very well preincarnate as the ancestor he met in ''Discworld/{{Eric}}.''

Rincewind's caretaker (perhaps his grandfather who told him stories about Cohen the Barbarian) used to own The Luggage. But since they lived in the poorer Morpork, he (or she) fell on hard times and had to sell it to TheLittleShopThatWasntThereYesterday. It made its way to the Agatean Empire, where Twoflower purchased it for his tourist trip to Ankh-Morpork. At the end of ''Discworld/TheLightFantastic'', when Twoflower leaves the Luggage behind, it doesn't try to follow him. Because it's returned to its rightful owner, who was Rincewind all along.

[[WMG: Some, if not all the [=UU=] senior faculty lived through the events of ''Discworld/NightWatch.'']]

Unlike the other heads of Unseen, his rank in ''Discworld/TheLightFantastic'' was given as Chancellor, not Archchancellor. This seems like a continuity error, given that all previous ''and'' later leaders of the University have "Archchancellor" for their rank. However, in ''Discworld/GoingPostal'' we learn that some of the UU faculty, such as Professor Goitre, retain their titles even after opting to take Early Death, hanging around at ghostly banquets and being conjured up for advice by their still-living subordinates. If Galder Weatherwax's immediate predecessor as head of UU chose this option, and insisted on retaining the title of Archchancellor exclusively for himself, then Galder could have gotten stuck with the less-impressive rank of Chancellor by default (because it's simpler to say or write that down than "''Prehumous'' Archchancellor"). At least, until such time as later University staff got tired of drawing such a quibbling distinction, and belatedly applied the "Arch" to his title in UU records.

*** Note that, since ''Discworld/TheLastHero'', Carrot himself is ''world famous'', being the most photogenic member of the spaceship crew. And one who faced down Cohen and the Silver Horde, no less.

*** On a side note, did anyone else just catch the StealthPun reference to Discworld/ReaperMan?

[[WMG: [[Discworld/UnseenAcademicals Andy Shank]] is [[Discworld/NightWatch Carcer's]] bastard son.]]

The reason why king Lorenzo was executed without a trial was that there were no lawyers willing to get involved in such a trial. But surely Mr. Slant would do it if he was paid enough. In Discworld/MakingMoney he is stated to be a little over 350 years old, so he was probably around at the time. Unless, of course, he was dead.

* Also, according to Discworld/MakingMoney, dwarfs just don't ''like'' golems (they remind them of trolls). Granted, that doesn't make it impossible, but it does make it less likely.

She's a pretty young woman who (at least for a while) is Death. It's obvious. Susan says in Discworld/{{Hogfather}} that the longer she spends doing Death-y or immortal things (walking through doors, using [[AC:the voice]], and the like), the closer she gets to actually being Death. Someday the old boy will decide to retire (or something nasty will happen to him; it's bound to happen eventually, as much as we all hate to admit it) and she'll end up taking over. Of course, there's the minor issues of her hair and age being entirely different, but... I think we can work around that.

In order to stop Rincewind and Twoflower from falling over the Rim of the world in ''Discworld/TheColourOfMagic'', the Octavo had to change reality to save them. This was the change in time that made all ''other'' alternate realities possible.

It's repeatedly mentioned that Suffer-Not-Injustice Vimes was the ''only'' man who would kill Lorenzo, everyone else being of the "kings is sacred" mindset. So whatever heroic magnetism Carrot pulls off was probably still present in the sick bastard, just enough that no one wanted to do the job, and the only character who shows resistance/immunity to Carrot's field (Gavin in Discworld/TheFifthElephant) is part werewolf.

Scrofula implies near the end of Discworld/TheColourOfMagic that Rincewind is going to reincarnate, and Discworld/TheTruth provides evidence that reincarnation isn't always linear.

And this happens constantly. Consider Rincewind's reflections on meeting Dibhala in Discworld/InterestingTimes:"There was, he thought, probably something in the idea that there were only a few people in the world. There were lots of bodies, but only a few people." This is because all these suspiciously similar strangers are in fact incarnations of the same soul.