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Changed line(s) 1,84 (click to see context) from:
(My [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlAic9aPoqs Leitmotif]], according to DrNoPuma. Listen to while reading for a more immersive Cailleach experience.)
Cailleach is a 21 year old troper and, just like her namesake, a deity that is both transcendent and immanent. She lives in NYC, and is a mathematician, artist, and musician.
She gallivants around the forums quite a bit. After trying multiple exterminators with no success, the mods have agreed to let her stay as long as she doesn't get into the garbage anymore
[[folder:Tropes I Embody]]
Tropes that apply to Cailleach:
* AwesomeAnachronisticApparel: Hopes to be achieving this with her look. She's admittedly pretty much a female [[TheDandy dandy]].
* TheBGrade: Cail doesn't get B's. Cail. Does Not. Get B's. ''[[MadnessMantra Cail does not get B's.]]''
* BerserkButton: Using statistics incorrectly. Your sample size is small, your standard deviation high, your graph manipulative, and conclusion full of fallacies. Also misuse of the word "prove"
** Anything along the lines of the phrase, "I'm an artist, so obviously I hate math," which she hears ''way'' too often as a mathematician (who also happens to be an artist, and finds the two incredibly interrelated) Like she gets it, you're narrow-minded, just don't bother her with it.
* BiTheWay
* BigApplesauce: Cail's place of residence
* BlindWithoutEm: Cail had to go to school once after her glasses broke. Someone had to save her from walking onto the subway tracks.
* {{Cloudcuckoolander}}: '''And how.''' She's gone entire semesters without learning ''any'' of her classmates' names, because she was so deep within her imagination all the time she never even took notice of the other people in the room.
* {{Bookworm}}: Cail has been reading at an approximate book-a-week pace since she was five.
* TheCheerleader: Was one in high school. Besides the name, Cail does not fit any part of the trope. Neither did any of her teammates. This trope isn't really TruthInTelevision
* ConstantlyCurious: Written from the top floor of her university's tallest building, because she wanted to see what was up there. (I ask people a ton of questions on the forums because I just want to know more about everything. If I ever make you irritated or uncomfortable, you can ask me to stop and I will comply happily. I never want to pry where I'm not invited.)
* CrankyLandlord: Has one. Many escapades about her in the forums
* DeliberatelyBadExample: She lives her life to teach others
* DrivesLikeCrazy: Cail's not the ''best'' driver, but what New Yorker needs to drive?
* ElegantClassicalMusician: Cail is a classically trained opera and choral singer. She also likes singing jazz, blues, and early pop standards (from the 20's to the 60's), and musical theater. She has sung professionally in the past, including Carnegie Hall in 2013. She also plays piano and some euphonium.
* EverybodyHatesMathematics: SUBVERTED, SUBVERTED, ''SUBVERTED''. Cail loves math, perhaps more than anything else. It's her favorite art form. Can you please give math a break? She doesn't like everyone ganging up on her and telling her how much her passion sucks all the time
* ExtracurricularEnthusiast: Cail will volunteer for anything, even things she's not obligated or even expected to do (like asking her dean for permission to attend a seminar meant only for teachers. They let her go. No other student had ever asked.)
* TheFashionista: Fashion is one of Cail's favorite art forms. Also, she is fabulous. Her page image self-portraits always feature an outfit she owns in real life.
* FleetingPassionateHobbies: Her interests shift [[UpToEleven from minute to minute]], but to everything she brings her enthusiasm
* FunWithAcronyms / AwesomeMcCoolname: Cail's real life initials spell MAD. She is ''very'' pleased with her parents for that one, [[MadMathematician as it suits her desired persona]]
* GirlishPigtails: A frequent hairstyle of Cail's, tied with ribbons.
* GoGetterGirl: Has been described as a "G-Rated [[Film/{{Election}} Tracy Flick]]." Still trying to figure out whether she's okay with this comparison.
* GoodWithNumbers: She has, quite frankly, a love affair with mathematics
* GradeSkipper: Second grade, to be precise. (But after she was forced to take a gap year for health reasons between high school and college, it evened out)
* GratuitousFrench: [[EverythingSoundsSexierInFrench Parce que tout semble plus sexy!]] (Cail has a lot of connections to the Canadian region of Acadia, and speaks that dialect. The dialect is [[{{Understatement}} a small bit]] different from Standard French)
* GratuitousItalian: Alcune espressioni suono giusto in italiano! [[ItaliansTalkWithHands -hand gesture-]] (Cail is known for being [[NationalStereotypes embarrassingly Italian American]] on the forums)
* MsImagination: She lives '''constantly''' in her vivid imaginary world, making up story and story. Including right now.
* MyersBriggs: INFJ
* NaNoWriMo: If you participate in this, you are to become [[http://nanowrimo.org/participants/donpasquale her writing buddy.]] This is mandatory
* TheOmniscientCouncilOfVagueness: Is a member of one on the weekends
* ObliviouslyEvil: She's going to put that one down as a "Maybe"
* OutdoorsyGal: If you tie the wrong knots or insist on wasting room in your pack with beer "for the campfire" (looking at you, high school friends), she will leave you stranded. She spent 12 summers at Girl Scout camp. She can serenade you with campfire songs for 72 hours straight.
* ThePlan: Has one
* QuirkyCurls: Fittingly so
* RaisedCatholic: Being Italian American, Roman Catholicism is deeply ingrained in every aspect of her family and culture. She is well-versed on the Catechism, despite being an agnostic now.
* SeekerArchetype: Her entire shtick. She has a pathological obsession with knowledge.
* SeriousBusiness: Cooking. The culinary arts are to be taken SERIOUSLY. You can't just use pre-made sauce from a can and call it cooking, and no don't just stick it in a microwave what are you doing... (Cail apologizes for any food-related irritation she causes)
* SmarterThanYouLook: She gets this very frequently, and gets more and more offended each time.
* SophisticatedAsHell: Only with preteen girl internet slang instead of swearing. It's, like, totes a habit of hers
* SpeechImpediment: Pronounces some words...[[WhatTheHellIsThatAccent rather uniquely.]]
* SupremeChef: Cail is [[FoodPorn good at cooking.]] In her family, [[HadToBeSharp there is no other option]]
* TwinTropes: Cail has a twin sister and finds this index to be amusing
* TheWorkaholic: She prefers "Type-A Badass who gets Shit Done," but yeah.
* [[YouFailHistoryForever You Fail History Forever (I mean it. Get out of my classroom)]]: Received this grade on her report card once in high school
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Works I Enjoy]]
Cail promises she'll actually make this section eventually.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Tropes I Extol]]
Cail's favorite tropes include:
* AddedAlliterativeAppeal
* CrazyAwesome: Achieving this trope is Cail's ultimate goal in life
* Her other ultimate goal in life is to be ALadyAndAScholar
** Cail ''can't stand'' [[InsufferableGenius Insufferable Geniuses]]. Using your intelligence as an excuse to be mean to people, because you're somehow "better" than them. The whole smart thing? You're doing it wrong. Intelligence is about discovering and creating new things, not bragging rights.
* As a theater nerd, she always appreciates some MilkingTheGiantCow
* As well as some good NarmCharm
* OddFriendship: True to her idealistic nature, unlikely people becoming friends makes her smile a whole lot.
* PostModernMagik: Extremely fun to work with. Cail loves working through potential "What if?" questions involving mixing magic, modern day technology, and logic
* VillainSong: Objectively the best songs in anything.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Things I Enjoy]]
Cail is open to an impromptu conversation on any of these topics:
* Math!
* Writing
* Visual art
* Classical music
* Musical theater
* Cooking
* Fashion
* Fitness
* Disability rights/advocacy
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Tropes I've Established]]
Cail is responsible for the creation of the following tropes:
* InescapablePrisonEasilyEscaped: When a prison has been hyped up as "inescapable," with no recorded escapes in its 1,000+ years of operation, yet the hero is easily able to escape within days if not minutes. The frequency that this occurs in fiction is statistically ridiculous
[[/folder]]
Cailleach is a 21 year old troper and, just like her namesake, a deity that is both transcendent and immanent. She lives in NYC, and is a mathematician, artist, and musician.
She gallivants around the forums quite a bit. After trying multiple exterminators with no success, the mods have agreed to let her stay as long as she doesn't get into the garbage anymore
[[folder:Tropes I Embody]]
Tropes that apply to Cailleach:
* AwesomeAnachronisticApparel: Hopes to be achieving this with her look. She's admittedly pretty much a female [[TheDandy dandy]].
* TheBGrade: Cail doesn't get B's. Cail. Does Not. Get B's. ''[[MadnessMantra Cail does not get B's.]]''
* BerserkButton: Using statistics incorrectly. Your sample size is small, your standard deviation high, your graph manipulative, and conclusion full of fallacies. Also misuse of the word "prove"
** Anything along the lines of the phrase, "I'm an artist, so obviously I hate math," which she hears ''way'' too often as a mathematician (who also happens to be an artist, and finds the two incredibly interrelated) Like she gets it, you're narrow-minded, just don't bother her with it.
* BiTheWay
* BigApplesauce: Cail's place of residence
* BlindWithoutEm: Cail had to go to school once after her glasses broke. Someone had to save her from walking onto the subway tracks.
* {{Cloudcuckoolander}}: '''And how.''' She's gone entire semesters without learning ''any'' of her classmates' names, because she was so deep within her imagination all the time she never even took notice of the other people in the room.
* {{Bookworm}}: Cail has been reading at an approximate book-a-week pace since she was five.
* TheCheerleader: Was one in high school. Besides the name, Cail does not fit any part of the trope. Neither did any of her teammates. This trope isn't really TruthInTelevision
* ConstantlyCurious: Written from the top floor of her university's tallest building, because she wanted to see what was up there. (I ask people a ton of questions on the forums because I just want to know more about everything. If I ever make you irritated or uncomfortable, you can ask me to stop and I will comply happily. I never want to pry where I'm not invited.)
* CrankyLandlord: Has one. Many escapades about her in the forums
* DeliberatelyBadExample: She lives her life to teach others
* DrivesLikeCrazy: Cail's not the ''best'' driver, but what New Yorker needs to drive?
* ElegantClassicalMusician: Cail is a classically trained opera and choral singer. She also likes singing jazz, blues, and early pop standards (from the 20's to the 60's), and musical theater. She has sung professionally in the past, including Carnegie Hall in 2013. She also plays piano and some euphonium.
* EverybodyHatesMathematics: SUBVERTED, SUBVERTED, ''SUBVERTED''. Cail loves math, perhaps more than anything else. It's her favorite art form. Can you please give math a break? She doesn't like everyone ganging up on her and telling her how much her passion sucks all the time
* ExtracurricularEnthusiast: Cail will volunteer for anything, even things she's not obligated or even expected to do (like asking her dean for permission to attend a seminar meant only for teachers. They let her go. No other student had ever asked.)
* TheFashionista: Fashion is one of Cail's favorite art forms. Also, she is fabulous. Her page image self-portraits always feature an outfit she owns in real life.
* FleetingPassionateHobbies: Her interests shift [[UpToEleven from minute to minute]], but to everything she brings her enthusiasm
* FunWithAcronyms / AwesomeMcCoolname: Cail's real life initials spell MAD. She is ''very'' pleased with her parents for that one, [[MadMathematician as it suits her desired persona]]
* GirlishPigtails: A frequent hairstyle of Cail's, tied with ribbons.
* GoGetterGirl: Has been described as a "G-Rated [[Film/{{Election}} Tracy Flick]]." Still trying to figure out whether she's okay with this comparison.
* GoodWithNumbers: She has, quite frankly, a love affair with mathematics
* GradeSkipper: Second grade, to be precise. (But after she was forced to take a gap year for health reasons between high school and college, it evened out)
* GratuitousFrench: [[EverythingSoundsSexierInFrench Parce que tout semble plus sexy!]] (Cail has a lot of connections to the Canadian region of Acadia, and speaks that dialect. The dialect is [[{{Understatement}} a small bit]] different from Standard French)
* GratuitousItalian: Alcune espressioni suono giusto in italiano! [[ItaliansTalkWithHands -hand gesture-]] (Cail is known for being [[NationalStereotypes embarrassingly Italian American]] on the forums)
* MsImagination: She lives '''constantly''' in her vivid imaginary world, making up story and story. Including right now.
* MyersBriggs: INFJ
* NaNoWriMo: If you participate in this, you are to become [[http://nanowrimo.org/participants/donpasquale her writing buddy.]] This is mandatory
* TheOmniscientCouncilOfVagueness: Is a member of one on the weekends
* ObliviouslyEvil: She's going to put that one down as a "Maybe"
* OutdoorsyGal: If you tie the wrong knots or insist on wasting room in your pack with beer "for the campfire" (looking at you, high school friends), she will leave you stranded. She spent 12 summers at Girl Scout camp. She can serenade you with campfire songs for 72 hours straight.
* ThePlan: Has one
* QuirkyCurls: Fittingly so
* RaisedCatholic: Being Italian American, Roman Catholicism is deeply ingrained in every aspect of her family and culture. She is well-versed on the Catechism, despite being an agnostic now.
* SeekerArchetype: Her entire shtick. She has a pathological obsession with knowledge.
* SeriousBusiness: Cooking. The culinary arts are to be taken SERIOUSLY. You can't just use pre-made sauce from a can and call it cooking, and no don't just stick it in a microwave what are you doing... (Cail apologizes for any food-related irritation she causes)
* SmarterThanYouLook: She gets this very frequently, and gets more and more offended each time.
* SophisticatedAsHell: Only with preteen girl internet slang instead of swearing. It's, like, totes a habit of hers
* SpeechImpediment: Pronounces some words...[[WhatTheHellIsThatAccent rather uniquely.]]
* SupremeChef: Cail is [[FoodPorn good at cooking.]] In her family, [[HadToBeSharp there is no other option]]
* TwinTropes: Cail has a twin sister and finds this index to be amusing
* TheWorkaholic: She prefers "Type-A Badass who gets Shit Done," but yeah.
* [[YouFailHistoryForever You Fail History Forever (I mean it. Get out of my classroom)]]: Received this grade on her report card once in high school
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Works I Enjoy]]
Cail promises she'll actually make this section eventually.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Tropes I Extol]]
Cail's favorite tropes include:
* AddedAlliterativeAppeal
* CrazyAwesome: Achieving this trope is Cail's ultimate goal in life
* Her other ultimate goal in life is to be ALadyAndAScholar
** Cail ''can't stand'' [[InsufferableGenius Insufferable Geniuses]]. Using your intelligence as an excuse to be mean to people, because you're somehow "better" than them. The whole smart thing? You're doing it wrong. Intelligence is about discovering and creating new things, not bragging rights.
* As a theater nerd, she always appreciates some MilkingTheGiantCow
* As well as some good NarmCharm
* OddFriendship: True to her idealistic nature, unlikely people becoming friends makes her smile a whole lot.
* PostModernMagik: Extremely fun to work with. Cail loves working through potential "What if?" questions involving mixing magic, modern day technology, and logic
* VillainSong: Objectively the best songs in anything.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Things I Enjoy]]
Cail is open to an impromptu conversation on any of these topics:
* Math!
* Writing
* Visual art
* Classical music
* Musical theater
* Cooking
* Fashion
* Fitness
* Disability rights/advocacy
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Tropes I've Established]]
Cail is responsible for the creation of the following tropes:
* InescapablePrisonEasilyEscaped: When a prison has been hyped up as "inescapable," with no recorded escapes in its 1,000+ years of operation, yet the hero is easily able to escape within days if not minutes. The frequency that this occurs in fiction is statistically ridiculous
[[/folder]]
to:
Cailleach is a 21 year old troper and, just like her namesake, a deity that is both transcendent and immanent. She lives in NYC, and is a mathematician, artist, and musician.
She gallivants around the forums quite a bit. After trying multiple exterminators with no success, the mods have agreed to let her stay as long as she doesn't get into the garbage anymore
[[folder:Tropes I Embody]]
Tropes that apply to Cailleach:
* AwesomeAnachronisticApparel: Hopes to be achieving this with her look. She's admittedly pretty much a female [[TheDandy dandy]].
* TheBGrade: Cail doesn't get B's. Cail. Does Not. Get B's. ''[[MadnessMantra Cail does not get B's.]]''
* BerserkButton: Using statistics incorrectly. Your sample size is small, your standard deviation high, your graph manipulative, and conclusion full of fallacies. Also misuse of the word "prove"
** Anything along the lines of the phrase, "I'm an artist, so obviously I hate math," which she hears ''way'' too often as a mathematician (who also happens to be an artist, and finds the two incredibly interrelated) Like she gets it, you're narrow-minded, just don't bother her with it.
* BiTheWay
* BigApplesauce: Cail's place of residence
* BlindWithoutEm: Cail had to go to school once after her glasses broke. Someone had to save her from walking onto the subway tracks.
* {{Cloudcuckoolander}}: '''And how.''' She's gone entire semesters without learning ''any'' of her classmates' names, because she was so deep within her imagination all the time she never even took notice of the other people in the room.
* {{Bookworm}}: Cail has been reading at an approximate book-a-week pace since she was five.
* TheCheerleader: Was one in high school. Besides the name, Cail does not fit any part of the trope. Neither did any of her teammates. This trope isn't really TruthInTelevision
* ConstantlyCurious: Written from the top floor of her university's tallest building, because she wanted to see what was up there. (I ask people a ton of questions on the forums because I just want to know more about everything. If I ever make you irritated or uncomfortable, you can ask me to stop and I will comply happily. I never want to pry where I'm not invited.)
* CrankyLandlord: Has one. Many escapades about her in the forums
* DeliberatelyBadExample: She lives her life to teach others
* DrivesLikeCrazy: Cail's not the ''best'' driver, but what New Yorker needs to drive?
* ElegantClassicalMusician: Cail is a classically trained opera and choral singer. She also likes singing jazz, blues, and early pop standards (from the 20's to the 60's), and musical theater. She has sung professionally in the past, including Carnegie Hall in 2013. She also plays piano and some euphonium.
* EverybodyHatesMathematics: SUBVERTED, SUBVERTED, ''SUBVERTED''. Cail loves math, perhaps more than anything else. It's her favorite art form. Can you please give math a break? She doesn't like everyone ganging up on her and telling her how much her passion sucks all the time
* ExtracurricularEnthusiast: Cail will volunteer for anything, even things she's not obligated or even expected to do (like asking her dean for permission to attend a seminar meant only for teachers. They let her go. No other student had ever asked.)
* TheFashionista: Fashion is one of Cail's favorite art forms. Also, she is fabulous. Her page image self-portraits always feature an outfit she owns in real life.
* FleetingPassionateHobbies: Her interests shift [[UpToEleven from minute to minute]], but to everything she brings her enthusiasm
* FunWithAcronyms / AwesomeMcCoolname: Cail's real life initials spell MAD. She is ''very'' pleased with her parents for that one, [[MadMathematician as it suits her desired persona]]
* GirlishPigtails: A frequent hairstyle of Cail's, tied with ribbons.
* GoGetterGirl: Has been described as a "G-Rated [[Film/{{Election}} Tracy Flick]]." Still trying to figure out whether she's okay with this comparison.
* GoodWithNumbers: She has, quite frankly, a love affair with mathematics
* GradeSkipper: Second grade, to be precise. (But after she was forced to take a gap year for health reasons between high school and college, it evened out)
* GratuitousFrench: [[EverythingSoundsSexierInFrench Parce que tout semble plus sexy!]] (Cail has a lot of connections to the Canadian region of Acadia, and speaks that dialect. The dialect is [[{{Understatement}} a small bit]] different from Standard French)
* GratuitousItalian: Alcune espressioni suono giusto in italiano! [[ItaliansTalkWithHands -hand gesture-]] (Cail is known for being [[NationalStereotypes embarrassingly Italian American]] on the forums)
* MsImagination: She lives '''constantly''' in her vivid imaginary world, making up story and story. Including right now.
* MyersBriggs: INFJ
* NaNoWriMo: If you participate in this, you are to become [[http://nanowrimo.org/participants/donpasquale her writing buddy.]] This is mandatory
* TheOmniscientCouncilOfVagueness: Is a member of one on the weekends
* ObliviouslyEvil: She's going to put that one down as a "Maybe"
* OutdoorsyGal: If you tie the wrong knots or insist on wasting room in your pack with beer "for the campfire" (looking at you, high school friends), she will leave you stranded. She spent 12 summers at Girl Scout camp. She can serenade you with campfire songs for 72 hours straight.
* ThePlan: Has one
* QuirkyCurls: Fittingly so
* RaisedCatholic: Being Italian American, Roman Catholicism is deeply ingrained in every aspect of her family and culture. She is well-versed on the Catechism, despite being an agnostic now.
* SeekerArchetype: Her entire shtick. She has a pathological obsession with knowledge.
* SeriousBusiness: Cooking. The culinary arts are to be taken SERIOUSLY. You can't just use pre-made sauce from a can and call it cooking, and no don't just stick it in a microwave what are you doing... (Cail apologizes for any food-related irritation she causes)
* SmarterThanYouLook: She gets this very frequently, and gets more and more offended each time.
* SophisticatedAsHell: Only with preteen girl internet slang instead of swearing. It's, like, totes a habit of hers
* SpeechImpediment: Pronounces some words...[[WhatTheHellIsThatAccent rather uniquely.]]
* SupremeChef: Cail is [[FoodPorn good at cooking.]] In her family, [[HadToBeSharp there is no other option]]
* TwinTropes: Cail has a twin sister and finds this index to be amusing
* TheWorkaholic: She prefers "Type-A Badass who gets Shit Done," but yeah.
* [[YouFailHistoryForever You Fail History Forever (I mean it. Get out of my classroom)]]: Received this grade on her report card once in high school
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Works I Enjoy]]
Cail promises she'll actually make this section eventually.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Tropes I Extol]]
Cail's favorite tropes include:
* AddedAlliterativeAppeal
* CrazyAwesome: Achieving this trope is Cail's ultimate goal in life
* Her other ultimate goal in life is to be ALadyAndAScholar
** Cail ''can't stand'' [[InsufferableGenius Insufferable Geniuses]]. Using your intelligence as an excuse to be mean to people, because you're somehow "better" than them. The whole smart thing? You're doing it wrong. Intelligence is about discovering and creating new things, not bragging rights.
* As a theater nerd, she always appreciates some MilkingTheGiantCow
* As well as some good NarmCharm
* OddFriendship: True to her idealistic nature, unlikely people becoming friends makes her smile a whole lot.
* PostModernMagik: Extremely fun to work with. Cail loves working through potential "What if?" questions involving mixing magic, modern day technology, and logic
* VillainSong: Objectively the best songs in anything.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Things I Enjoy]]
Cail is open to an impromptu conversation on any of these topics:
* Math!
* Writing
* Visual art
* Classical music
* Musical theater
* Cooking
* Fashion
* Fitness
* Disability rights/advocacy
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Tropes I've Established]]
Cail is responsible for the creation of the following tropes:
* InescapablePrisonEasilyEscaped: When a prison has been hyped up as "inescapable," with no recorded escapes in its 1,000+ years of operation, yet the hero is easily able to escape within days if not minutes. The frequency that this occurs in fiction is statistically ridiculous
[[/folder]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 16 (click to see context) from:
* {{Cloudcuckoolander}}: '''And how.''' She's gone entire semesters without learning ''any'' of her classmates' names, because she was so deep within her imagination all the time she never even took notice of the other people in the room. She could name about three people at her entire university
to:
* {{Cloudcuckoolander}}: '''And how.''' She's gone entire semesters without learning ''any'' of her classmates' names, because she was so deep within her imagination all the time she never even took notice of the other people in the room. She could name about three people at her entire university
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Deleted line(s) 15 (click to see context) :
** NewYorkIsOnlyManhattan does not apply. She doesn't live in a skyscraper, she lives in Queens
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1,2 (click to see context) from:
My [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlAic9aPoqs Leitmotif]], according to DrNoPuma. Listen to while reading for a more immersive Cailleach experience.
to:
Changed line(s) 8,9 (click to see context) from:
Tropes that apply to Cailleach include:
* AspergersSyndrome: Like a lot of people here, it seems
* AspergersSyndrome: Like a lot of people here, it seems
to:
Tropes that apply to Cailleach include:
* AspergersSyndrome: Like a lot of people here, it seemsCailleach:
* AspergersSyndrome: Like a lot of people here, it seems
