Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Removing This Troper writing
Deleted line(s) 1,2 (click to see context) :
Note: This is so totally incomplete. We can add more Necessary Tropes, we can throw in some Potential Subversions, suggest some Themes and Aesops, so on and so forth. But WikiMagic doesn't work on nothing, so I feel it's better to have this right now and improve on it another day.
Changed line(s) 85,87 (click to see context) from:
* Fanfic/HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality by Creator/EliezerYudkowsky
* {{Fanfic/Luminosity}} by {{Creator/Alicorn}}
* {{Fanfic/Luminosity}} by {{Creator/Alicorn}}
to:
* Fanfic/HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality ''Fanfic/HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality'' by Creator/EliezerYudkowsky
*{{Fanfic/Luminosity}} ''{{Fanfic/Luminosity}}'' by {{Creator/Alicorn}}
*
Changed line(s) 90,91 (click to see context) from:
* [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7464695/1/Harry-Potter-and-the-Methods-of-Chaos Harry Potter and the Methods of Chaos]] by [[https://www.fanfiction.net/u/1675975/JBean210 JBeann210]] There are a lot of things that you can learn from this, most of them lessons that you could take from any poorly-written story. It emphasizes, though, the importance of not writing a Rational Fanfic in the same fandom as another well-accepted Rational Fanfic. I'm not even sure how bad it is, honestly, It's not Good, certainly, but the fact that I am comparing it [=HPMOR=] with every sentence that I read makes it ''even worse''.
to:
* [[https://www.''[[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7464695/1/Harry-Potter-and-the-Methods-of-Chaos Harry Potter and the Methods of Chaos]] Chaos]]'' by [[https://www.fanfiction.net/u/1675975/JBean210 JBeann210]] There are a lot of things that you can learn from this, most of them lessons that you could take from any poorly-written story. It emphasizes, though, the importance of not writing a Rational Fanfic in the same fandom as another well-accepted Rational Fanfic. I'm not even sure how bad it is, honestly, It's not Good, certainly, but the fact that I am comparing it [=HPMOR=] with every sentence that I read makes it ''even worse''.\n
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 25 (click to see context) from:
* GenreSavvy / WrongGenreSavvy: If the character is, say, a modern American who was dropped into a LordoftheRings kind of high fantasy world, then they should make the comparisons that such a person would naturally make. They may figure that
to:
* GenreSavvy / WrongGenreSavvy: If the character is, say, a modern American who was dropped into a LordoftheRings Literature/TheLordOfTheRings kind of high fantasy world, then they should make the comparisons that such a person would naturally make. They may figure that
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
No disrespect intended, but "they" is much more widely accepted and means the same thing.
Changed line(s) 18,19 (click to see context) from:
* SmartBall: Kind of; I guess that it's not really a ball when everyone's got it, all the time. More than "knowing lots of things," however, Rational Fic characters are successful because they "think things through." This means (1) you should probably show their thought process so that the reader can see that it's a, well, rational train of logic (but make it interesting!) and (2) writing this kind of story isn't as hard as you may be telling yourself that it is. If the character is more intelligent than most people then it's almost always a difference of degree rather than kind: xe can think or learn faster than the average person, rather than think things that the average person could never think, no matter how much time and/or information that person was given. Oh, and the more characters that are intelligent in this way, the better.
to:
* SmartBall: Kind of; I guess that it's not really a ball when everyone's got it, all the time. More than "knowing lots of things," however, Rational Fic characters are successful because they "think things through." This means (1) you should probably show their thought process so that the reader can see that it's a, well, rational train of logic (but make it interesting!) and (2) writing this kind of story isn't as hard as you may be telling yourself that it is. If the character is more intelligent than most people then it's almost always a difference of degree rather than kind: xe they can think or learn faster than the average person, rather than think things that the average person could never think, no matter how much time and/or information that person was given. Oh, and the more characters that are intelligent in this way, the better.
Changed line(s) 25 (click to see context) from:
* GenreSavvy / WrongGenreSavvy: If the character is, say, a modern American who was dropped into a LordoftheRings kind of high fantasy world, then xe should make the comparisons that such a person would naturally make. Xe may figure
to:
* GenreSavvy / WrongGenreSavvy: If the character is, say, a modern American who was dropped into a LordoftheRings kind of high fantasy world, then xe they should make the comparisons that such a person would naturally make. Xe They may figure that
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 17 (click to see context) from:
* Foreshadowing: Most readers of Rational Fic enjoy being able to approach the story as though it were a puzzle. They'll be speculating on this and that, and while they may not cry foul if you pull a fast one on them that they never could have predicted, you can bet that they'll be happier with a shocker that was there all along, but hidden too well.
to:
* Foreshadowing: {{Foreshadowing}}: Most readers of Rational Fic enjoy being able to approach the story as though it were a puzzle. They'll be speculating on this and that, and while they may not cry foul if you pull a fast one on them that they never could have predicted, you can bet that they'll be happier with a shocker that was there all along, but hidden too well.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 10 (click to see context) from:
* Read the [[http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Sequences#Major_Sequences Major Sequences at Less Wrong]]. Then read them again for good measure. Love them, hate them, there's a lot to be learned there even if you disagree with some of it. And really, if you do disagree with some of it then you should at least have an idea of where and why you disagree, because LessWrong is going to be a major audience for your story if you write it well.
to:
* Read the [[http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Sequences#Major_Sequences Major Sequences at Less Wrong]]. Then read them again for good measure. Love them, hate them, there's a lot to be learned there even if you disagree with some of it. And really, if you do disagree with some of it then you should at least have an idea of where and why you disagree, because LessWrong Blog/LessWrong is going to be a major audience for your story if you write it well.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 34 (click to see context) from:
* IdiotBall: "It is a general law of MoR that no one is ever holding the Idiot Ball." If you want to make your story good, then you'd better make that your law too.
to:
* IdiotBall: "It is a general law of MoR [=MoR=] that no one is ever holding the Idiot Ball." If you want to make your story good, then you'd better make that your law too.
* How would the universe you're writing in appear to us (modern, regular people)?
* How would having all characters logical, intelligent people (...creatures) change the universe you're writing in?
*
*
!!'''Potential Motifs'''
* How would having all characters logical, intelligent people (...creatures) change the universe you're writing in?
*
*
!!'''Potential Motifs'''
Changed line(s) 55,56 (click to see context) from:
!!'''Potential Motifs'''
to:
!!'''Suggested Plots'''
Deleted line(s) 60,65 (click to see context) :
!!'''Suggested Plots'''
*
*
Changed line(s) 70,71 (click to see context) from:
*
to:
* If you have TheDitz, try turning him into DitzyGenius or - if you can't do it - at least GeniusDitz.
* Residual {{Cloudcuckoolander}} can be changed into BunnyEarsLawyer.
* If some character is unredeemable, just make him SpearCarrier. If your story is good, most people shouldn't note he's missing (unless he's member of FiveManBand of PowerTrio. Then try to keep him).
Changed line(s) 85,86 (click to see context) from:
* [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7464695/1/Harry-Potter-and-the-Methods-of-Chaos Harry Potter and the Methods of Chaos]] by [[https://www.fanfiction.net/u/1675975/JBean210 JBeann210]] There are a lot of things that you can learn from this, most of them lessons that you could take from any poorly-written story. It emphasizes, though, the importance of not writing a Rational Fanfic in the same fandom as another well-accepted Rational Fanfic. I'm not even sure how bad it is, honestly, It's not Good, certainly, but the fact that I am comparing it HPMOR with every sentence that I read makes it 'even worse'.
to:
* [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7464695/1/Harry-Potter-and-the-Methods-of-Chaos Harry Potter and the Methods of Chaos]] by [[https://www.fanfiction.net/u/1675975/JBean210 JBeann210]] There are a lot of things that you can learn from this, most of them lessons that you could take from any poorly-written story. It emphasizes, though, the importance of not writing a Rational Fanfic in the same fandom as another well-accepted Rational Fanfic. I'm not even sure how bad it is, honestly, It's not Good, certainly, but the fact that I am comparing it HPMOR [=HPMOR=] with every sentence that I read makes it 'even worse'.
''even worse''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 3,4 (click to see context) from:
So you've decided to write a story. You love to read Fanfic/HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality, so you've decided to write a RationalFic.
to:
So you've decided to write a story. You love to read Fanfic/HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality, ''Fanfic/HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality'', so you've decided to write a RationalFic.
Changed line(s) 92 (click to see context) from:
For a much more up-to-date listing of some of the genre's stories, go to RationalFic. And feel free to add examples, especially to The Greats.
to:
For a much more up-to-date listing of some of the genre's stories, go to RationalFic. And feel free to add examples, especially to The Greats.Greats.
----
----
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
Note: This is so totally incomplete. We can add more Necessary Tropes, we can throw in some Potential Subversions, suggest some Themes and Aesops, so on and so forth. But WikiMagic doesn't work on nothing, so I feel it's better to have this right now and improve on it another day.
So you've decided to write a story. You love to read Fanfic/HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality, so you've decided to write a RationalFic.
First, be sure to check out SoYouWantTo/WriteAStory for basic advice that holds across ''all'' genres. Then, get look over a rundown of the genre-specific tropes that will help you, hurt you, and guide you on your way.
Now, this page is called So You Want To Write the Next Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, but that doesn't mean that you have to write a RecursiveFanfiction or even a fanfic at all. Whether fanfic or original work, though, a lot of what follows will apply no matter what.
Before we begin, there are two things to discuss that don't really fall into tropes:
* Read the [[http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Sequences#Major_Sequences Major Sequences at Less Wrong]]. Then read them again for good measure. Love them, hate them, there's a lot to be learned there even if you disagree with some of it. And really, if you do disagree with some of it then you should at least have an idea of where and why you disagree, because LessWrong is going to be a major audience for your story if you write it well.
* For those writing Rational Fanfic: If there's already a (well-accepted) Rational Fanfic in the universe that you're planning on setting your story in, Don't Do It. Because of the nature of Rational Fic and the number of both Rational Fics and their readers, the majority of people who read your fic will also have read the first one. This will turn you into BattlingShows and even if your fic is self-demonstrably superior there will be many who will dislike it because the other one was there first. Many people may even refuse to read your fic to begin with just because they think, for example, that you've stolen ideas from the first one. This is probably not a battle that you want to fight.
!'''Necessary Tropes'''
The very nature of the genre dictates that your material ''will'' fall under these tropes. Learn to use them well.
* Foreshadowing: Most readers of Rational Fic enjoy being able to approach the story as though it were a puzzle. They'll be speculating on this and that, and while they may not cry foul if you pull a fast one on them that they never could have predicted, you can bet that they'll be happier with a shocker that was there all along, but hidden too well.
* SmartBall: Kind of; I guess that it's not really a ball when everyone's got it, all the time. More than "knowing lots of things," however, Rational Fic characters are successful because they "think things through." This means (1) you should probably show their thought process so that the reader can see that it's a, well, rational train of logic (but make it interesting!) and (2) writing this kind of story isn't as hard as you may be telling yourself that it is. If the character is more intelligent than most people then it's almost always a difference of degree rather than kind: xe can think or learn faster than the average person, rather than think things that the average person could never think, no matter how much time and/or information that person was given. Oh, and the more characters that are intelligent in this way, the better.
!'''Choices, Choices'''
These tropes cover a wide spectrum of choices regarding a certain element of your story, and you're going to have to pick a spot somewhere on that spectrum. Unless we've forgotten to include something, and you can spot it, because in that case you might actually surprise us after all.
* AnAesop: Is there going to be some deep meaning or lesson to your story, or are you just writing it for the sake of the plot?
* GenreSavvy / WrongGenreSavvy: If the character is, say, a modern American who was dropped into a LordoftheRings kind of high fantasy world, then xe should make the comparisons that such a person would naturally make. Xe may figure
* LivingForeverIsAwesome: Most, if not all, Rational Fic stories are written by transhumanists and read predominantly by the same. Are you going to bring transhumanist philosophy into the story? Whether you do or not, you should have a reason for it.
!'''Pitfalls'''
Watch out for these tropes! They're bad news - or, well, at least they're tropes you generally want to avoid - and they're particularly common in your chosen genre.
* ArbitrarySkepticism: The moment that a Rational Protagonist ceases to be rational Just Because (or for any reason, really), they cease to be a complete Rational Protagonist and are now just Mostly or Kind Of Rational.
* AuthorTract: Make it a good story first and a sermon... never. Feel free to embed a moral into your story, but be careful about it.
* IdiotBall: "It is a general law of MoR that no one is ever holding the Idiot Ball." If you want to make your story good, then you'd better make that your law too.
* MarySue: Especially PuritySue. One of the biggest complaints that people have about HPMOR is that Harry Potter, to them, has been made into some sort of idealized I'm-gonna-show-you-how-you're-all-wrong Rationalist God. Whether it's true or not for HPMOR, it's definitely an easy mistake to make. See also InsufferableGenius.
* ViewersAreGeniuses: Not always a pitfall, but do be wary of playing this trope so hard that it's difficult for your readers to understand what's going on.
* TheWarOnStraw: The more rational-thinking characters in your story, the better. This means that your characters, 'all' of them, should give at least decent arguments. Don't stage a debate just for the sake of showing how Right your protagonist is.
!'''Potential Subversions'''
These tropes are in common use throughout the genre, so we'll forgive you if you use them - but if you can think of a good way to subvert, invert, or just plain ''a''vert them, then you just might be able to start a new [[FollowTheLeader trend]]....
*
*
----
!'''Writers' Lounge'''
!!'''Suggested Themes and Aesops'''
*
*
!!'''Potential Motifs'''
*
*
!!'''Suggested Plots'''
*
*
----
!!'''Casting Director'''
*
----
!'''Extra Credit'''
Now, if you're really looking to bring up the quality of your work, head off to your local library (or jump on your computer... wait, you're already there) to study how the best (and worst) have managed to make it work:
!!'''The Greats'''
* Fanfic/HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality by Creator/EliezerYudkowsky
* {{Fanfic/Luminosity}} by {{Creator/Alicorn}}
!!'''The Epic Fails'''
* [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7464695/1/Harry-Potter-and-the-Methods-of-Chaos Harry Potter and the Methods of Chaos]] by [[https://www.fanfiction.net/u/1675975/JBean210 JBeann210]] There are a lot of things that you can learn from this, most of them lessons that you could take from any poorly-written story. It emphasizes, though, the importance of not writing a Rational Fanfic in the same fandom as another well-accepted Rational Fanfic. I'm not even sure how bad it is, honestly, It's not Good, certainly, but the fact that I am comparing it HPMOR with every sentence that I read makes it 'even worse'.
!!'''Honorable Mentions'''
* [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7464695/1/Harry-Potter-and-the-Methods-of-Chaos Harry Potter and the Methods of Chaos]]
* [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9380249/1/Rationalising-Death Rationalising Death]]
For a much more up-to-date listing of some of the genre's stories, go to RationalFic. And feel free to add examples, especially to The Greats.
So you've decided to write a story. You love to read Fanfic/HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality, so you've decided to write a RationalFic.
First, be sure to check out SoYouWantTo/WriteAStory for basic advice that holds across ''all'' genres. Then, get look over a rundown of the genre-specific tropes that will help you, hurt you, and guide you on your way.
Now, this page is called So You Want To Write the Next Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, but that doesn't mean that you have to write a RecursiveFanfiction or even a fanfic at all. Whether fanfic or original work, though, a lot of what follows will apply no matter what.
Before we begin, there are two things to discuss that don't really fall into tropes:
* Read the [[http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Sequences#Major_Sequences Major Sequences at Less Wrong]]. Then read them again for good measure. Love them, hate them, there's a lot to be learned there even if you disagree with some of it. And really, if you do disagree with some of it then you should at least have an idea of where and why you disagree, because LessWrong is going to be a major audience for your story if you write it well.
* For those writing Rational Fanfic: If there's already a (well-accepted) Rational Fanfic in the universe that you're planning on setting your story in, Don't Do It. Because of the nature of Rational Fic and the number of both Rational Fics and their readers, the majority of people who read your fic will also have read the first one. This will turn you into BattlingShows and even if your fic is self-demonstrably superior there will be many who will dislike it because the other one was there first. Many people may even refuse to read your fic to begin with just because they think, for example, that you've stolen ideas from the first one. This is probably not a battle that you want to fight.
!'''Necessary Tropes'''
The very nature of the genre dictates that your material ''will'' fall under these tropes. Learn to use them well.
* Foreshadowing: Most readers of Rational Fic enjoy being able to approach the story as though it were a puzzle. They'll be speculating on this and that, and while they may not cry foul if you pull a fast one on them that they never could have predicted, you can bet that they'll be happier with a shocker that was there all along, but hidden too well.
* SmartBall: Kind of; I guess that it's not really a ball when everyone's got it, all the time. More than "knowing lots of things," however, Rational Fic characters are successful because they "think things through." This means (1) you should probably show their thought process so that the reader can see that it's a, well, rational train of logic (but make it interesting!) and (2) writing this kind of story isn't as hard as you may be telling yourself that it is. If the character is more intelligent than most people then it's almost always a difference of degree rather than kind: xe can think or learn faster than the average person, rather than think things that the average person could never think, no matter how much time and/or information that person was given. Oh, and the more characters that are intelligent in this way, the better.
!'''Choices, Choices'''
These tropes cover a wide spectrum of choices regarding a certain element of your story, and you're going to have to pick a spot somewhere on that spectrum. Unless we've forgotten to include something, and you can spot it, because in that case you might actually surprise us after all.
* AnAesop: Is there going to be some deep meaning or lesson to your story, or are you just writing it for the sake of the plot?
* GenreSavvy / WrongGenreSavvy: If the character is, say, a modern American who was dropped into a LordoftheRings kind of high fantasy world, then xe should make the comparisons that such a person would naturally make. Xe may figure
* LivingForeverIsAwesome: Most, if not all, Rational Fic stories are written by transhumanists and read predominantly by the same. Are you going to bring transhumanist philosophy into the story? Whether you do or not, you should have a reason for it.
!'''Pitfalls'''
Watch out for these tropes! They're bad news - or, well, at least they're tropes you generally want to avoid - and they're particularly common in your chosen genre.
* ArbitrarySkepticism: The moment that a Rational Protagonist ceases to be rational Just Because (or for any reason, really), they cease to be a complete Rational Protagonist and are now just Mostly or Kind Of Rational.
* AuthorTract: Make it a good story first and a sermon... never. Feel free to embed a moral into your story, but be careful about it.
* IdiotBall: "It is a general law of MoR that no one is ever holding the Idiot Ball." If you want to make your story good, then you'd better make that your law too.
* MarySue: Especially PuritySue. One of the biggest complaints that people have about HPMOR is that Harry Potter, to them, has been made into some sort of idealized I'm-gonna-show-you-how-you're-all-wrong Rationalist God. Whether it's true or not for HPMOR, it's definitely an easy mistake to make. See also InsufferableGenius.
* ViewersAreGeniuses: Not always a pitfall, but do be wary of playing this trope so hard that it's difficult for your readers to understand what's going on.
* TheWarOnStraw: The more rational-thinking characters in your story, the better. This means that your characters, 'all' of them, should give at least decent arguments. Don't stage a debate just for the sake of showing how Right your protagonist is.
!'''Potential Subversions'''
These tropes are in common use throughout the genre, so we'll forgive you if you use them - but if you can think of a good way to subvert, invert, or just plain ''a''vert them, then you just might be able to start a new [[FollowTheLeader trend]]....
*
*
----
!'''Writers' Lounge'''
!!'''Suggested Themes and Aesops'''
*
*
!!'''Potential Motifs'''
*
*
!!'''Suggested Plots'''
*
*
----
!!'''Casting Director'''
*
----
!'''Extra Credit'''
Now, if you're really looking to bring up the quality of your work, head off to your local library (or jump on your computer... wait, you're already there) to study how the best (and worst) have managed to make it work:
!!'''The Greats'''
* Fanfic/HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality by Creator/EliezerYudkowsky
* {{Fanfic/Luminosity}} by {{Creator/Alicorn}}
!!'''The Epic Fails'''
* [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7464695/1/Harry-Potter-and-the-Methods-of-Chaos Harry Potter and the Methods of Chaos]] by [[https://www.fanfiction.net/u/1675975/JBean210 JBeann210]] There are a lot of things that you can learn from this, most of them lessons that you could take from any poorly-written story. It emphasizes, though, the importance of not writing a Rational Fanfic in the same fandom as another well-accepted Rational Fanfic. I'm not even sure how bad it is, honestly, It's not Good, certainly, but the fact that I am comparing it HPMOR with every sentence that I read makes it 'even worse'.
!!'''Honorable Mentions'''
* [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7464695/1/Harry-Potter-and-the-Methods-of-Chaos Harry Potter and the Methods of Chaos]]
* [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9380249/1/Rationalising-Death Rationalising Death]]
For a much more up-to-date listing of some of the genre's stories, go to RationalFic. And feel free to add examples, especially to The Greats.
