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** Famous novelist Bob disparages Alice's novel. She is ecstatic that he even acknowledged her at all.
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** "Your right that I can't write good books. Now listen to me and learn from my mistakes."
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** Alice reluctantly accepts criticism from Charlie, at least she is consistent.
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Changed line(s) 7 (click to see context) from:
** Bob is a KnowNothingKnowItAll who gives advice any real writer would immediately dismiss, so Alice isn't necessarily being unreasonable.
to:
** Bob is a KnowNothingKnowItAll who gives advice any real writer would immediately dismiss, dismiss and/or has unrealistically high expectations for her work, so Alice isn't necessarily being unreasonable.
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Changed line(s) 21 (click to see context) from:
** Bob points out a bad case of historical CriticalResearchFailure in Alice’s novel. Alice claims she’s right because she’s a published author and he isn’t. He points out that she failed history, which shuts her up.
to:
** Bob points out a bad case of historical CriticalResearchFailure InUniverseFactoidFailure in Alice’s novel. Alice claims she’s right because she’s a published author and he isn’t. He points out that she failed history, which shuts her up.
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** "I'm not asking if you can do better. I'm asking if literally anybody could meet those standards you set?"
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Changed line(s) 42 (click to see context) from:
** This trope was just one of many [[{{Fallacy}} fallacies]] Alice has ready at her disposal. After shooting down each one that comes their way, Bob and Charlie decide it's not worth the effort, and [[VictoryByEndurance leave Alice with the last word]].
to:
** This trope was just one of many [[{{Fallacy}} [[LogicalFallacies fallacies]] Alice has ready at her disposal. After shooting down each one that comes their way, Bob and Charlie decide it's not worth the effort, and [[VictoryByEndurance leave Alice with the last word]].
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Changed line(s) 37,38 (click to see context) from:
* '''Deconstructed''': Alice is seen as somebody who just can't take criticism after pulling this card one time too many. Consequently, she realizes finally that she might have to listen to their criticisms.
* '''Reconstructed''': This ends up being an IgnoredEpiphany and she goes back to her old methods.
* '''Reconstructed''': This ends up being an IgnoredEpiphany and she goes back to her old methods.
to:
* '''Deconstructed''': '''Deconstructed''':
** Alice is seen as somebody who just can't take criticism after pulling this card one time too many. Consequently, she realizes finally that she might have to listen to their criticisms.
** Charlie, a bestselling novelist, comes in and backs up Bob's criticisms. Alice is forced to eat her words.
*'''Reconstructed''': '''Reconstructed''':
** This ends up being an IgnoredEpiphany and she goes back to her oldmethods.methods.
** This trope was just one of many [[{{Fallacy}} fallacies]] Alice has ready at her disposal. After shooting down each one that comes their way, Bob and Charlie decide it's not worth the effort, and [[VictoryByEndurance leave Alice with the last word]].
** Alice is seen as somebody who just can't take criticism after pulling this card one time too many. Consequently, she realizes finally that she might have to listen to their criticisms.
** Charlie, a bestselling novelist, comes in and backs up Bob's criticisms. Alice is forced to eat her words.
*
** This ends up being an IgnoredEpiphany and she goes back to her old
** This trope was just one of many [[{{Fallacy}} fallacies]] Alice has ready at her disposal. After shooting down each one that comes their way, Bob and Charlie decide it's not worth the effort, and [[VictoryByEndurance leave Alice with the last word]].
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Changed line(s) 7 (click to see context) from:
** Bob is a KnowNothingKnowItAll, so Alice isn't necessarily being unreasonable.
to:
** Bob is a KnowNothingKnowItAll, KnowNothingKnowItAll who gives advice any real writer would immediately dismiss, so Alice isn't necessarily being unreasonable.
Changed line(s) 25 (click to see context) from:
* '''Invoked''': Alice learns Bob is a failed novellist and figures she can [[{{Troll}} get under his skin by reminding him of her greater success]].
to:
* '''Invoked''': '''Invoked''':
** Alice learns Bob is a failed novellist and figures she can [[{{Troll}} get under his skin by reminding him of her greatersuccess]].success]].
** Alice makes this criticism as a BatmanGambit designed to get Bob to write a better novel so Alice can ride off his success.
** Alice learns Bob is a failed novellist and figures she can [[{{Troll}} get under his skin by reminding him of her greater
** Alice makes this criticism as a BatmanGambit designed to get Bob to write a better novel so Alice can ride off his success.
** '''Played for Drama''': Unintentionally, this ends up being an ArmorPiercingQuestion for Bob, as he always wanted to be a writer but after many failed attempts concluded he had no talent and settled for being a critic instead. This unwelcome reminder of his past sends Bob into depression.
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%%* '''Played for Drama''': ???
to:
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Changed line(s) 39 (click to see context) from:
Oh, please. You couldn't write a better [[LetsSeeYOUDoBetter unabridged version]] than I could.
to:
Oh, please. You couldn't write a better [[LetsSeeYOUDoBetter unabridged version]] main page]] than I could.
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Changed line(s) 14 (click to see context) from:
* '''Subverted''': Bob criticizes Alice's work, but she appears to take it well.
to:
* '''Subverted''': '''Subverted''':
** Bob criticizes Alice's work, but she appears to take itwell.well.
** Bob criticizes Alice's work, and she demands that he make something better... so he actually writes a book and it becomes a beloved classic in the following centuries, while hers remain forgotten.
** Bob criticizes Alice's work, but she appears to take it
** Bob criticizes Alice's work, and she demands that he make something better... so he actually writes a book and it becomes a beloved classic in the following centuries, while hers remain forgotten.
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Changed line(s) 2,3 (click to see context) from:
* '''Straight''': After Bob heavily criticizes Alice's novel ''[[HerCodeNameWasMarySue The Perfect Adventures of Mary Sue]]'', Alice responds by challenging him to write a better book.
* '''Exaggerated''': Bob calls ''The Perfect Adventures of Mary Sue'' the worst book ever written by a human, to which Alice dares him to write the next UsefulNotes/GreatAmericanNovel (or whatever nationality he is).
* '''Exaggerated''': Bob calls ''The Perfect Adventures of Mary Sue'' the worst book ever written by a human, to which Alice dares him to write the next UsefulNotes/GreatAmericanNovel (or whatever nationality he is).
to:
* '''Straight''': After Bob heavily criticizes Alice's novel ''[[HerCodeNameWasMarySue The Perfect Adventures of Mary Sue]]'', Alice responds by challenging challenges him to write a better book.
book in response.
* '''Exaggerated''': Bob calls ''The Perfect Adventures of Mary Sue'' the [[WorstWhateverEver worst book ever written by ahuman, human]], to which Alice dares him to write the next UsefulNotes/GreatAmericanNovel (or whatever nationality he is).
* '''Exaggerated''': Bob calls ''The Perfect Adventures of Mary Sue'' the [[WorstWhateverEver worst book ever written by a
** Bob disparages Alice's novel. [[SelfDeprecation She agrees]] [[OldShame with him.]]
Changed line(s) 14 (click to see context) from:
* '''Double Subverted''': ...or so it seems. She then goes on an angry rant about her book is a masterpiece and then challenges Bob to write a better story.
to:
* '''Double Subverted''': ...or so it seems. She then goes on an angry rant about her book is a masterpiece and then challenges Bob to write a better story.
Changed line(s) 20 (click to see context) from:
* '''Enforced''': "[[TakeThatCritics These know-nothing critics know nothing about the writing process! I'll show them, then!]]"
to:
* '''Enforced''': "[[TakeThatCritics These [[TakeThatCritics "These know-nothing critics know nothing about the writing process! I'll show them, then!]]"then!"]]
Changed line(s) 25,28 (click to see context) from:
** Alice listens to Bob's criticism, knowing she'd only sound {{Wangst}}y if she pulled this card.
** “Alice, don’t even try to pull the ‘let me see you do better’ card. I may not have any writing experience, but I can tell that I didn’t enjoy your book.”
* '''Discussed''': ???
* '''Conversed''': ???
** “Alice, don’t even try to pull the ‘let me see you do better’ card. I may not have any writing experience, but I can tell that I didn’t enjoy your book.”
* '''Discussed''': ???
* '''Conversed''': ???
to:
** Alice listens to Bob's criticism, knowing she'd only sound {{Wangst}}y if she pulled played this card.
** “Alice, don’t even try topull play the ‘let me see you do better’ card. I may not have any writing experience, but I can tell that I didn’t enjoy your book.”
*'''Discussed''': ???
'''Discussed''':
-->'''Bob''': The gauntlet is down, Alice, and I accept your challenge.
-->'''Alice''': [[LiteralMinded What gauntlet? I don't see a gauntlet.]]
* '''Conversed''':???"Hey, doesn't Bob have a different, regular job? And didn't they establish, like, last season that he's a sloppy writer?"
** “Alice, don’t even try to
*
-->'''Bob''': The gauntlet is down, Alice, and I accept your challenge.
-->'''Alice''': [[LiteralMinded What gauntlet? I don't see a gauntlet.]]
* '''Conversed''':
Changed line(s) 32 (click to see context) from:
* '''Played for Laughs''': Bob does write his story as promised, and it ends up being as bad as — if not even worse than — Alice's.
to:
* '''Played for Laughs''': Bob does write his story as promised, and it ends up being as bad as — Alice's, if not even worse than — Alice's.worse.
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** Bob is famous in-universe for writing several popular novels.
to:
** Bob is famous in-universe for writing several popular and/or acclaimed novels.
Changed line(s) 18 (click to see context) from:
* '''Zig-Zagged''': Bob criticizes Alice's novel. She stays calm for a moment, but later she dares him to write something better. After Bob starts writing, Alice rescinds her challenge. He finishes his own novel and gets it published. It gets a polarized reception, much of its {{fandom}} overlapping with Alice's {{hatedom}} and vice versa.
to:
* '''Zig-Zagged''': Bob criticizes Alice's novel. She stays calm for a moment, but later she dares him to write something better. After Bob starts writing, Alice rescinds her challenge. He finishes his own novel and gets it published. It gets a polarized reception, much of its {{fandom}} overlapping with Alice's {{hatedom}} and vice versa.[[invoked]]
Changed line(s) 23,24 (click to see context) from:
* '''Exploited''': ???
* '''Defied''':
* '''Defied''':
to:
* '''Exploited''': ???
Alice knows Bob can't write as quickly as she can, so she writes a couple more novels while he's working on his first, and he can't write proper critiques of them because of his divided attention.
*'''Defied''': '''Defied''':
*
Changed line(s) 30 (click to see context) from:
* '''Deconstructed''': Alice is seen as somebody who just can't take criticism after pulling this card one too many times. Causing her to finally realize that she might have to listen to their criticisms.
to:
* '''Deconstructed''': Alice is seen as somebody who just can't take criticism after pulling this card one time too many times. Causing her to many. Consequently, she realizes finally realize that she might have to listen to their criticisms.
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* '''Downplayed''': Bob tries to give constructive criticism to Alice's novels, but Alice doesn't listen, causing her to challenge him to do it himself.
to:
* '''Downplayed''': Bob tries to give gives constructive criticism to Alice's novels, but and Alice doesn't listen, causing her to challenge encourages him to do it himself.use the ideas he suggested for a novel of his own.
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Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
* '''Inverted''': Alice reads Bob's badly written novel and is inspired by it to write a better book because of it.
to:
** In his review, Bob claimed that anyone could write a better novel. Alice wants him to prove it.
*'''Inverted''': '''Inverted''':
** Alice reads Bob's badly written novel and is inspiredby it to write a better book because of it.it.
** Bob praises Alice’s novel. She dismisses his compliments and says he could probably write a better book himself.
** Bob praises Alice’s novel. She rejects his compliments because he’s not a writer.
*
** Alice reads Bob's badly written novel and is inspired
** Bob praises Alice’s novel. She dismisses his compliments and says he could probably write a better book himself.
** Bob praises Alice’s novel. She rejects his compliments because he’s not a writer.
Changed line(s) 11 (click to see context) from:
* '''Parodied''': Bob does write his story as promised and it ends up being as bad if not even worse than Alice's.
to:
* '''Parodied''': '''Parodied''':
** Bobdoes write his story as promised is famous in-universe for writing several popular novels.
** Bob points out a bad case of historical CriticalResearchFailure in Alice’s novel. Alice claims she’s right because she’s a published author andit ends up being as bad if not even worse than Alice's.he isn’t. He points out that she failed history, which shuts her up.
** Bob
** Bob points out a bad case of historical CriticalResearchFailure in Alice’s novel. Alice claims she’s right because she’s a published author and
Changed line(s) 14 (click to see context) from:
* '''Enforced''': "These know-nothing critics know nothing about the writing process! I'll show them, then!"
to:
* '''Enforced''': "These "[[TakeThatCritics These know-nothing critics know nothing about the writing process! I'll show them, then!"then!]]"
Changed line(s) 18 (click to see context) from:
* '''Defied''': Alice listens to Bob's criticism, knowing she'd only sound {{Wangst}}y if she pulled this card.
to:
* '''Defied''': '''Defied''':
** Alice listens to Bob's criticism, knowing she'd only sound {{Wangst}}y if she pulled thiscard.card.
** “Alice, don’t even try to pull the ‘let me see you do better’ card. I may not have any writing experience, but I can tell that I didn’t enjoy your book.”
** Alice listens to Bob's criticism, knowing she'd only sound {{Wangst}}y if she pulled this
** “Alice, don’t even try to pull the ‘let me see you do better’ card. I may not have any writing experience, but I can tell that I didn’t enjoy your book.”
* '''Played for Laughs''': Bob does write his story as promised, and it ends up being as bad as — if not even worse than — Alice's.
Deleted line(s) 28 (click to see context) :
%%* '''Played for Laughs''': ???
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Changed line(s) 12 (click to see context) from:
* '''Zig-Zagged''': Bob criticizes Alice's novel. She stays calm for a moment, but later she dares him to write something better. After Bob starts writing, Alice rescinds her challenge. He finishes his own novel and gets it published. It gets [[LoveItOrHateIt a polarized reception]], much of its {{fandom}} overlapping with Alice's {{hatedom}} and vice versa.
to:
* '''Zig-Zagged''': Bob criticizes Alice's novel. She stays calm for a moment, but later she dares him to write something better. After Bob starts writing, Alice rescinds her challenge. He finishes his own novel and gets it published. It gets [[LoveItOrHateIt a polarized reception]], reception, much of its {{fandom}} overlapping with Alice's {{hatedom}} and vice versa.
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Changed line(s) 2,8 (click to see context) from:
* '''Straight''': Bob heavily criticizes Alice's novels ''[[HerCodeNameWasMarySue The Perfect Adventures of Mary Sue]]'' to which Alice responds by daring him to write a better book.
* '''Exaggerated''': Bob calls the ''The Perfect Adventures of Mary Sue'' the worst book ever written in all of human history to which Alice dares him to write the next Great American novel.
* '''Downplayed''': Bob tries to give constructive criticism to Alice's novels, but Alice doesn't listen causing her to challenge him to do it himself.
* '''Justified''':
** Alice CantTakeCriticism well
** Bob is a KnowNothingKnowItAll so Alice isn't necessarily being unreasonable
to:
* '''Exaggerated''': Bob calls
* '''Downplayed''': Bob tries to give constructive criticism to Alice's novels, but Alice doesn't
*
** Alice CantTakeCriticism
** Bob is a
Changed line(s) 10,11 (click to see context) from:
* '''Subverted''': Bob criticizes Alice's work, but she appears to take it well
* '''Double Subverted''':...or so it seems she then goes on an angry rant about her book is a masterpiece and then challenges Bob to write a better story.
* '''Double Subverted''':...or so it seems she then goes on an angry rant about her book is a masterpiece and then challenges Bob to write a better story.
to:
* '''Subverted''': Bob criticizes Alice's work, but she appears to take it well
well.
* '''DoubleSubverted''':...Subverted''': ...or so it seems she seems. She then goes on an angry rant about her book is a masterpiece and then challenges Bob to write a better story.
* '''Double
Changed line(s) 13 (click to see context) from:
* '''Zig Zagged''': ???
to:
* '''Zig Zagged''': ???'''Zig-Zagged''': Bob criticizes Alice's novel. She stays calm for a moment, but later she dares him to write something better. After Bob starts writing, Alice rescinds her challenge. He finishes his own novel and gets it published. It gets [[LoveItOrHateIt a polarized reception]], much of its {{fandom}} overlapping with Alice's {{hatedom}} and vice versa.
Changed line(s) 15,17 (click to see context) from:
* '''Enforced''': "These know nothing critics know nothing about the writing process! I'll show them, then!"
* '''Lampshaded''': "You know, not everybody is a jealous hack, Alice. Sometimes you just gotta listen to criticism."
* '''Invoked''': ???
* '''Lampshaded''': "You know, not everybody is a jealous hack, Alice. Sometimes you just gotta listen to criticism."
* '''Invoked''': ???
to:
* '''Enforced''': "These know nothing know-nothing critics know nothing about the writing process! I'll show them, then!"
* '''Lampshaded''': "You know, not everybody is a jealous hack, Alice. Sometimes you justgotta have to listen to criticism."
* '''Invoked''':???Alice learns Bob is a failed novellist and figures she can [[{{Troll}} get under his skin by reminding him of her greater success]].
* '''Lampshaded''': "You know, not everybody is a jealous hack, Alice. Sometimes you just
* '''Invoked''':
Changed line(s) 19,22 (click to see context) from:
* '''Defied''': Alice actually listens to Bob's criticism, knowing that she'd sound {{Wangst}}y if she pulls this card.
* '''Discussed''':
* '''Conversed''':
* '''Implied''': Bob is seen frantically writing a story, when asked what he's doing he says that Alice challenged him.
* '''Discussed''':
* '''Conversed''':
* '''Implied''': Bob is seen frantically writing a story, when asked what he's doing he says that Alice challenged him.
to:
* '''Defied''': Alice actually listens to Bob's criticism, knowing that she'd only sound {{Wangst}}y if she pulls pulled this card.
*'''Discussed''':
'''Discussed''': ???
*'''Conversed''':
'''Conversed''': ???
* '''Implied''': Bob is seen frantically writing astory, story and, when asked what he's doing doing, he says that Alice challenged him.
*
*
* '''Implied''': Bob is seen frantically writing a
Changed line(s) 24 (click to see context) from:
* '''Reconstructed''': This ends up being an IgnoredEphinay and she goes back to her old methods.
to:
* '''Reconstructed''': This ends up being an IgnoredEphinay IgnoredEpiphany and she goes back to her old methods.
Changed line(s) 26 (click to see context) from:
Oh please you couldn't write a better [[LetsSeeYOUDoBetter unabridged version]] than I could
to:
Changed line(s) 28,30 (click to see context) from:
%% Optional items:
%%* '''Played For Laughs''': ???
%%* '''Played For Drama''': ???
%%* '''Played For Laughs''': ???
%%* '''Played For Drama''': ???
to:
%%* '''Played
%%* '''Played
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Added DiffLines:
'''Basic Trope''': The mindset that you're not allowed to criticize a piece of media if you have no experience creating something.
* '''Straight''': Bob heavily criticizes Alice's novels ''[[HerCodeNameWasMarySue The Perfect Adventures of Mary Sue]]'' to which Alice responds by daring him to write a better book.
* '''Exaggerated''': Bob calls the ''The Perfect Adventures of Mary Sue'' the worst book ever written in all of human history to which Alice dares him to write the next Great American novel.
* '''Downplayed''': Bob tries to give constructive criticism to Alice's novels, but Alice doesn't listen causing her to challenge him to do it himself.
* '''Justified''':
** Alice CantTakeCriticism well
** Bob is a KnowNothingKnowItAll so Alice isn't necessarily being unreasonable
* '''Inverted''': Alice reads Bob's badly written novel and is inspired by it to write a better book because of it.
* '''Subverted''': Bob criticizes Alice's work, but she appears to take it well
* '''Double Subverted''':...or so it seems she then goes on an angry rant about her book is a masterpiece and then challenges Bob to write a better story.
* '''Parodied''': Bob does write his story as promised and it ends up being as bad if not even worse than Alice's.
* '''Zig Zagged''': ???
* '''Averted''': Alice never issues such a challenge.
* '''Enforced''': "These know nothing critics know nothing about the writing process! I'll show them, then!"
* '''Lampshaded''': "You know, not everybody is a jealous hack, Alice. Sometimes you just gotta listen to criticism."
* '''Invoked''': ???
* '''Exploited''': ???
* '''Defied''': Alice actually listens to Bob's criticism, knowing that she'd sound {{Wangst}}y if she pulls this card.
* '''Discussed''':
* '''Conversed''':
* '''Implied''': Bob is seen frantically writing a story, when asked what he's doing he says that Alice challenged him.
* '''Deconstructed''': Alice is seen as somebody who just can't take criticism after pulling this card one too many times. Causing her to finally realize that she might have to listen to their criticisms.
* '''Reconstructed''': This ends up being an IgnoredEphinay and she goes back to her old methods.
----
Oh please you couldn't write a better [[LetsSeeYOUDoBetter unabridged version]] than I could
----
%% Optional items:
%%* '''Played For Laughs''': ???
%%* '''Played For Drama''': ???
* '''Straight''': Bob heavily criticizes Alice's novels ''[[HerCodeNameWasMarySue The Perfect Adventures of Mary Sue]]'' to which Alice responds by daring him to write a better book.
* '''Exaggerated''': Bob calls the ''The Perfect Adventures of Mary Sue'' the worst book ever written in all of human history to which Alice dares him to write the next Great American novel.
* '''Downplayed''': Bob tries to give constructive criticism to Alice's novels, but Alice doesn't listen causing her to challenge him to do it himself.
* '''Justified''':
** Alice CantTakeCriticism well
** Bob is a KnowNothingKnowItAll so Alice isn't necessarily being unreasonable
* '''Inverted''': Alice reads Bob's badly written novel and is inspired by it to write a better book because of it.
* '''Subverted''': Bob criticizes Alice's work, but she appears to take it well
* '''Double Subverted''':...or so it seems she then goes on an angry rant about her book is a masterpiece and then challenges Bob to write a better story.
* '''Parodied''': Bob does write his story as promised and it ends up being as bad if not even worse than Alice's.
* '''Zig Zagged''': ???
* '''Averted''': Alice never issues such a challenge.
* '''Enforced''': "These know nothing critics know nothing about the writing process! I'll show them, then!"
* '''Lampshaded''': "You know, not everybody is a jealous hack, Alice. Sometimes you just gotta listen to criticism."
* '''Invoked''': ???
* '''Exploited''': ???
* '''Defied''': Alice actually listens to Bob's criticism, knowing that she'd sound {{Wangst}}y if she pulls this card.
* '''Discussed''':
* '''Conversed''':
* '''Implied''': Bob is seen frantically writing a story, when asked what he's doing he says that Alice challenged him.
* '''Deconstructed''': Alice is seen as somebody who just can't take criticism after pulling this card one too many times. Causing her to finally realize that she might have to listen to their criticisms.
* '''Reconstructed''': This ends up being an IgnoredEphinay and she goes back to her old methods.
----
Oh please you couldn't write a better [[LetsSeeYOUDoBetter unabridged version]] than I could
----
%% Optional items:
%%* '''Played For Laughs''': ???
%%* '''Played For Drama''': ???