Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Added example(s)
** [[spoiler: Ilberd]] aside from conspiring with Teledji for his act above, also crosses the line by [[spoiler: sending a bunch of Ala Mihgan rebels on a FalseFlagOperation to assault the Garlean defensive wall, only to have them all massacred so that their sacrifice and dying prayers would fuel the summoning of a Primal that would destroy everything]].
Changed line(s) 23 (click to see context) from:
** Where to start with [[spoiler: Athena]]? There's her mutating the keywards of Pandæmonium into insane hydrid monsters. There's also her trying to infect her husband's soul with her mad desires. Yet still, there's her harvesting the souls of the Lifestream in order to become a god. The key reveal though, that leads everyone in-universe to conclude that there was never any good in her was [[spoiler: that she crippled her own son's magic potential in order to encourage him to be more reliant on her, which in a magic-focused society like the Ancients' is basically akin to breaking his legs so that he'll rely on her to push around his wheelchair, and on top of that instilled an unnaturally dependency on her in his soul in order to better groom him into an ideal test subject]]. And to top it all off, when her plans fall through, she attempts to destroy the Lifestream in an act of petty vengeance.
to:
** Where to start with [[spoiler: Athena]]? There's her mutating the keywards of Pandæmonium into insane hydrid monsters. There's also her trying to infect her husband's soul with her mad desires. Yet still, there's her harvesting the souls of the Lifestream in order to become a god. The key reveal though, that leads everyone in-universe to conclude that there was never any good in her was [[spoiler: that she crippled her own son's magic potential in order to encourage him to be more reliant on her, which in a magic-focused society like the Ancients' is basically akin to breaking his legs so that he'll rely on her to push around his wheelchair, and on top of that instilled an unnaturally unnatural dependency on her in his soul in order to better groom him into an ideal test subject]]. And to top it all off, when her plans fall through, she attempts to destroy the Lifestream in an act of petty vengeance.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Added example(s)
Added DiffLines:
** Valens crosses it already with the creation of the Weapon Project, a series of superweapons [[spoiler: designed to horrifically and painfully kill the pilot by overwriting them into a CloneByConversion]]. However, he somehow manages to make it worse by forcing [[spoiler: Gaius's adoptive children]] to be the pilots [[spoiler: knowing that they'll die painfully in the process]] just to spite a man he envies, on top all the abuse he heaps on them anyway.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Added example(s)
Added DiffLines:
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIV'':
** Teledji crosses it when he [[spoiler: orders the assassination of Sultana Nanamo and attempts to frame the Warrior of Light for it, and then gloating about it in front of her loyal general Raubahn. His sheer gall gets him bisected.]]
** Vauthry is already a repulsive dictator who constantly interferes with the heroes attempts to slay the Lightwardens and save The First. However, the moment everyone definitely decides that Vauthry needs to go is when they find out [[spoiler: the meol he feeds Kholusia with is made from Sin Eater flesh, which not only allows him to enslave those who consume it, but also dooms them to slowly die and become Sin Eaters themselves, who are eventually harvested to perpetuate the cycle.]]
** Hermes, after crossing the DespairEventHorizon crosses the Moral one as well, [[spoiler: by attempting to erase the memories of everyone in Kitisis Hyperborea, himself included, so that nobody would be able to stop Meteion from ending all life in the universe.]]
** Where to start with [[spoiler: Athena]]? There's her mutating the keywards of Pandæmonium into insane hydrid monsters. There's also her trying to infect her husband's soul with her mad desires. Yet still, there's her harvesting the souls of the Lifestream in order to become a god. The key reveal though, that leads everyone in-universe to conclude that there was never any good in her was [[spoiler: that she crippled her own son's magic potential in order to encourage him to be more reliant on her, which in a magic-focused society like the Ancients' is basically akin to breaking his legs so that he'll rely on her to push around his wheelchair, and on top of that instilled an unnaturally dependency on her in his soul in order to better groom him into an ideal test subject]]. And to top it all off, when her plans fall through, she attempts to destroy the Lifestream in an act of petty vengeance.
** Teledji crosses it when he [[spoiler: orders the assassination of Sultana Nanamo and attempts to frame the Warrior of Light for it, and then gloating about it in front of her loyal general Raubahn. His sheer gall gets him bisected.]]
** Vauthry is already a repulsive dictator who constantly interferes with the heroes attempts to slay the Lightwardens and save The First. However, the moment everyone definitely decides that Vauthry needs to go is when they find out [[spoiler: the meol he feeds Kholusia with is made from Sin Eater flesh, which not only allows him to enslave those who consume it, but also dooms them to slowly die and become Sin Eaters themselves, who are eventually harvested to perpetuate the cycle.]]
** Hermes, after crossing the DespairEventHorizon crosses the Moral one as well, [[spoiler: by attempting to erase the memories of everyone in Kitisis Hyperborea, himself included, so that nobody would be able to stop Meteion from ending all life in the universe.]]
** Where to start with [[spoiler: Athena]]? There's her mutating the keywards of Pandæmonium into insane hydrid monsters. There's also her trying to infect her husband's soul with her mad desires. Yet still, there's her harvesting the souls of the Lifestream in order to become a god. The key reveal though, that leads everyone in-universe to conclude that there was never any good in her was [[spoiler: that she crippled her own son's magic potential in order to encourage him to be more reliant on her, which in a magic-focused society like the Ancients' is basically akin to breaking his legs so that he'll rely on her to push around his wheelchair, and on top of that instilled an unnaturally dependency on her in his soul in order to better groom him into an ideal test subject]]. And to top it all off, when her plans fall through, she attempts to destroy the Lifestream in an act of petty vengeance.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXVI'':
** Anabella Rosfield crosses it by [[spoiler:betraying her husband to the Empire, and then selling her eldest son into slavery due to viewing him as nothing more than a stain on her reputation.]]
** Hugo Kupka's [[spoiler:attack on the Hideaway is where he crosses the point to being completely irredeemable, a place acting as a refuge for Bearers fleeing slavery. To hammer it home, Clive Rosfield then spends the next five years looking for an opportunity to assassinate Kupka.]]
** Barnabas Tharmr [[spoiler:arrives at the point of no return when he allows his entire kingdom to be turned in Akashic beasts, depriving them of their free will and sentience.]]
** [[spoiler:Ultima is already over the horizon by the time he first appears, being the cruel TopGod of Valisthea who only created humanity so that his vessel Mythos would be created, and then intending on [[OmnicidalManiac destroying all of them]] once he had claimed Mythos.]]
** Anabella Rosfield crosses it by [[spoiler:betraying her husband to the Empire, and then selling her eldest son into slavery due to viewing him as nothing more than a stain on her reputation.]]
** Hugo Kupka's [[spoiler:attack on the Hideaway is where he crosses the point to being completely irredeemable, a place acting as a refuge for Bearers fleeing slavery. To hammer it home, Clive Rosfield then spends the next five years looking for an opportunity to assassinate Kupka.]]
** Barnabas Tharmr [[spoiler:arrives at the point of no return when he allows his entire kingdom to be turned in Akashic beasts, depriving them of their free will and sentience.]]
** [[spoiler:Ultima is already over the horizon by the time he first appears, being the cruel TopGod of Valisthea who only created humanity so that his vessel Mythos would be created, and then intending on [[OmnicidalManiac destroying all of them]] once he had claimed Mythos.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 22 (click to see context) from:
** Hashmal [[TheChessmaster is responsible for all of the bloodshed in the conflict]], just to revive the fallen Ultima. He also turns his host body Folmarv Tengille into an [[AbusiveParents abusive father]] who [[OffingTheOffspring murdered his own son]], massacred an entire castle, and kidnapped [[DistressedDamsel Alma]] so that he could use her as a host body for Ultima. He then decides to resurrect the recently deceased Zalbaag and [[TragicMonster force him]] to [[ICannotSelfTerminate fight]] Ramza.
to:
** Hashmal [[TheChessmaster is responsible for all of the bloodshed in the conflict]], just to revive the fallen Ultima. He also turns his host body Folmarv Tengille into an [[AbusiveParents abusive father]] who [[OffingTheOffspring murdered his own son]], massacred an entire castle, and kidnapped [[DistressedDamsel [[DamselInDistress Alma]] so that he could use her as a host body for Ultima. He then decides to resurrect the recently deceased Zalbaag and [[TragicMonster force him]] to [[ICannotSelfTerminate fight]] Ramza.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
YMMV tropes can't be Subverted
Changed line(s) 3,5 (click to see context) from:
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIV'' both subverts it and plays it straight.
** This trope is played straight not by [[TheDragon Golbez]], but by [[MadScientist Dr. Lugae]]. Lugae [[spoiler:turns Edge's parents into hideous monsters, and they decide to kill themselves in order to [[DyingAsYourself die before they lose their minds]]]]. It is notable that he did ''not'' do this on anyone's orders, but completely on his own. This act is considered so heinous that even ''[[NobleDemon Rubicante]]'' [[EvenEvilHasStandards is furious and apologizes to Edge]].
** Golbez subverts it. His atrocities throughout the game would count, except he was being manipulated by Zemus and is clearly remorseful for his crimes, taking full responsibility.
** This trope is played straight not by [[TheDragon Golbez]], but by [[MadScientist Dr. Lugae]]. Lugae [[spoiler:turns Edge's parents into hideous monsters, and they decide to kill themselves in order to [[DyingAsYourself die before they lose their minds]]]]. It is notable that he did ''not'' do this on anyone's orders, but completely on his own. This act is considered so heinous that even ''[[NobleDemon Rubicante]]'' [[EvenEvilHasStandards is furious and apologizes to Edge]].
** Golbez subverts it. His atrocities throughout the game would count, except he was being manipulated by Zemus and is clearly remorseful for his crimes, taking full responsibility.
to:
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIV'' both subverts it and plays it straight.
** This trope isplayed it straight not by [[TheDragon Golbez]], but by [[MadScientist Dr. Lugae]]. Lugae [[spoiler:turns Edge's parents into hideous monsters, and they decide to kill themselves in order to [[DyingAsYourself die before they lose their minds]]]]. It is notable that he did ''not'' do this on anyone's orders, but completely on his own. This act is considered so heinous that even ''[[NobleDemon Rubicante]]'' [[EvenEvilHasStandards is furious and apologizes to Edge]]. \n** Golbez subverts it. His atrocities throughout the game would count, except he was being manipulated by Zemus and is clearly remorseful for his crimes, taking full responsibility.
** This trope is
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 15,17 (click to see context) from:
** And Hojo. Where do we start with Hojo? Injecting alien cells into his unborn child? Murdering Professor Gast right in front of his wife Ifalna and his child [[spoiler:Aerith]], whom he then kidnaps for horrible experiments? Doing more horrific experiments on Vincent, Zack, and Cloud? Also being indirectly responsible for [[spoiler:Sephiroth's descent into insanity as well as Sephiroth's aforementioned murder of Aerith?]] You might as well assume that he crossed the line right at very ''beginning'' of his career. Taking the ExpandedUniverse into account, Hojo's life seems to consist of finding new lines to cross and gleefully leaping over them like he was practicing for the long jump.
*** Not to mention his experiments not only gave Vincent the ability to turn into a vicious beast, a hulking monster, a [[Franchise/Fridaythe13th Jason Expy (with Hockey mask and chainsaw)]] and [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyI Chaos]]. Said experiments also made him [[AndIMustScream immortal]].
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII'': For most of the first disk, you're told that Ultimacea is an evil sorceress from the future who has come to enslave all of humanity, but it seems to be soldier propaganda for a target who happens to be employed by a dictator. Then Ultimacea outright murders the dictator on live television, steps up as the new dictator, and egomaniacally laughs at the partially-hypnotized audience that they're worshiping the very monster their culture reviled. She parades across the main road while the player watches in horror as the citizens of the dictatorship mindlessly cheer and worship their literal evil overlord.
*** Not to mention his experiments not only gave Vincent the ability to turn into a vicious beast, a hulking monster, a [[Franchise/Fridaythe13th Jason Expy (with Hockey mask and chainsaw)]] and [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyI Chaos]]. Said experiments also made him [[AndIMustScream immortal]].
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII'': For most of the first disk, you're told that Ultimacea is an evil sorceress from the future who has come to enslave all of humanity, but it seems to be soldier propaganda for a target who happens to be employed by a dictator. Then Ultimacea outright murders the dictator on live television, steps up as the new dictator, and egomaniacally laughs at the partially-hypnotized audience that they're worshiping the very monster their culture reviled. She parades across the main road while the player watches in horror as the citizens of the dictatorship mindlessly cheer and worship their literal evil overlord.
to:
** And Hojo. Where do we start with Hojo? Injecting alien cells into his unborn child? Murdering Professor Gast right in front of his wife Ifalna and his child [[spoiler:Aerith]], whom he then kidnaps for horrible experiments? Doing more horrific experiments on Vincent, Zack, and Cloud? Also being indirectly responsible for [[spoiler:Sephiroth's descent into insanity as well as Sephiroth's aforementioned murder of Aerith?]] You might as well assume that he crossed the line right at the very ''beginning'' of his career. Taking the ExpandedUniverse into account, Hojo's life seems to consist of finding new lines to cross and gleefully leaping over them like he was practicing for the long jump.
*** Not to mention his experiments not only gave Vincent the ability to turn into a vicious beast, a hulking monster, a [[Franchise/Fridaythe13th Jason Voorhees]] Expy (withHockey mask and chainsaw)]] HockeyMaskAndChainsaw) and [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyI Chaos]]. Said experiments also made him [[AndIMustScream immortal]].
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII'': For most of the first disk, you're told thatUltimacea Ultimecia is an evil sorceress from the future who has come to enslave all of humanity, but it seems to be soldier propaganda for a target who happens to be employed by a dictator. Then Ultimacea Ultimecia outright murders the dictator on live television, steps up as the new dictator, and egomaniacally laughs at the partially-hypnotized audience that they're worshiping the very monster their culture reviled. She parades across the main road while the player watches in horror as the citizens of the dictatorship mindlessly cheer and worship their literal evil overlord.
*** Not to mention his experiments not only gave Vincent the ability to turn into a vicious beast, a hulking monster, a [[Franchise/Fridaythe13th Jason Voorhees]] Expy (with
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII'': For most of the first disk, you're told that
Changed line(s) 21,23 (click to see context) from:
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyTactics'' has the [[HateSink despised]] Algus Sadalfus, who at first appears to merely be a classist {{Jerkass}} until he [[spoiler:casually kills Tetra when an enemy tried to use her as a Human Shield]].
** Gerrith Barrington from the same game is far worse, he razes Rapha and Marach's village and kidnaps them to raise for the purpose of using them to claim the Throne of Ivalice for himself. If that doesn't push him into irredeemable evil territory, his [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil sexual abuse]] of Rapha definitely does. He's essentially the [[VideoGame/PokemonBlackAndWhite Ghetsis Harmonia]] of ''Final Fantasy'', only worse.
** Hashmal [[TheChessmaster is responsible for all of the bloodshed in the conflict]], just to revive the fallen Ultima. He also turns his host body Folmarv Tengile into an [[AbusiveParents abusive father]] who [[OffingTheOffspring murdered his own son]], massacred an entire castle, and kidnapped [[DistressedDamsel Alma]] so that he could use her as a host body for Ultima. He then decides to resurrect the recently deceased Zalbaag and [[TragicMonster force him]] to [[ICannotSelfTerminate fight]] Ramza.
** Gerrith Barrington from the same game is far worse, he razes Rapha and Marach's village and kidnaps them to raise for the purpose of using them to claim the Throne of Ivalice for himself. If that doesn't push him into irredeemable evil territory, his [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil sexual abuse]] of Rapha definitely does. He's essentially the [[VideoGame/PokemonBlackAndWhite Ghetsis Harmonia]] of ''Final Fantasy'', only worse.
** Hashmal [[TheChessmaster is responsible for all of the bloodshed in the conflict]], just to revive the fallen Ultima. He also turns his host body Folmarv Tengile into an [[AbusiveParents abusive father]] who [[OffingTheOffspring murdered his own son]], massacred an entire castle, and kidnapped [[DistressedDamsel Alma]] so that he could use her as a host body for Ultima. He then decides to resurrect the recently deceased Zalbaag and [[TragicMonster force him]] to [[ICannotSelfTerminate fight]] Ramza.
to:
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyTactics'' has the [[HateSink despised]] Algus Sadalfus, Argath Thadalfus, who at first appears to merely be a classist {{Jerkass}} until he [[spoiler:casually kills Tetra Tietra when an enemy tried to use her as a Human Shield]].
** Gerrith Barrington from the same game is farworse, worse: he razes Rapha and Marach's village and kidnaps them to raise for the purpose of using them to claim the Throne of Ivalice for himself. If that doesn't push him into irredeemable evil territory, his [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil sexual abuse]] of Rapha definitely does. He's essentially the [[VideoGame/PokemonBlackAndWhite Ghetsis Harmonia]] of ''Final Fantasy'', only worse.
** Hashmal [[TheChessmaster is responsible for all of the bloodshed in the conflict]], just to revive the fallen Ultima. He also turns his host body FolmarvTengile Tengille into an [[AbusiveParents abusive father]] who [[OffingTheOffspring murdered his own son]], massacred an entire castle, and kidnapped [[DistressedDamsel Alma]] so that he could use her as a host body for Ultima. He then decides to resurrect the recently deceased Zalbaag and [[TragicMonster force him]] to [[ICannotSelfTerminate fight]] Ramza.
** Gerrith Barrington from the same game is far
** Hashmal [[TheChessmaster is responsible for all of the bloodshed in the conflict]], just to revive the fallen Ultima. He also turns his host body Folmarv
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 12,13 (click to see context) from:
** Sephiroth is initially shown to be quite sympathetic despite Cloud's hatred of him. He saves the party at Shinra HQ and seems to be working against the Evil Corporation finding the Promised Land. Even during Cloud's flashback, when you discover that he's not human (his Mom, Jenova, is actually a feminine alien in a tank), he remains worthy of pity. But then he goes crazy and burns down Cloud's hometown, killing Cloud's mom and Tifa's dad among others, as well as almost killing the devastated Tifa when she lost it and tried to take revenge for her father. And if that wasn't enough of an Event Horizon for you and you're still somewhat willing to feel sorry for him, there's always the part where [[ItWasHisSled he murders Aerith]].
** President Shinra and Heidegger ordering the destruction of a sector of Midgar just to get rid of some [[YourTerroristsAreOurFreedomFighters terrorists]]. The Turks (mainly Reno and Tseng) might have crossed the line too by actually carrying out this heinous order.
** President Shinra and Heidegger ordering the destruction of a sector of Midgar just to get rid of some [[YourTerroristsAreOurFreedomFighters terrorists]]. The Turks (mainly Reno and Tseng) might have crossed the line too by actually carrying out this heinous order.
to:
** Sephiroth is initially shown to be quite sympathetic despite Cloud's hatred of him. He saves the party at Shinra HQ and seems to be working against the Evil Corporation finding the Promised Land. Even during Cloud's flashback, when you discover that he's not human (his Mom, Jenova, is actually a feminine alien in a tank), he remains worthy of pity. But then he goes crazy and burns down Cloud's hometown, killing Cloud's mom and Tifa's dad among others, as well as almost killing the devastated Tifa when she lost it and tried to take revenge for her father. And if that wasn't enough of an Event Horizon for you and you're still somewhat willing to feel sorry for him, there's always the part where [[ItWasHisSled he murders Aerith]].
Aerith]] - ''after he failed to brainwash Cloud into doing the deed''.
** President Shinra and Heidegger ordering the destruction of a sector of Midgar just to get rid of some [[YourTerroristsAreOurFreedomFightersterrorists]].terrorists]][[note]]The remake gives his actions more sense but makes them even worse; Shinra blames Wutai to start another war and pull out of the economically-failing Midgar, ensuring its surviving citizens are doomed[[/note]]. The Turks (mainly Reno and Tseng) might have crossed the line too by actually carrying out this heinous order.
** President Shinra and Heidegger ordering the destruction of a sector of Midgar just to get rid of some [[YourTerroristsAreOurFreedomFighters
Added DiffLines:
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII'': For most of the first disk, you're told that Ultimacea is an evil sorceress from the future who has come to enslave all of humanity, but it seems to be soldier propaganda for a target who happens to be employed by a dictator. Then Ultimacea outright murders the dictator on live television, steps up as the new dictator, and egomaniacally laughs at the partially-hypnotized audience that they're worshiping the very monster their culture reviled. She parades across the main road while the player watches in horror as the citizens of the dictatorship mindlessly cheer and worship their literal evil overlord.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
'''''Franchise/FinalFantasy'''''
to:
Changed line(s) 11 (click to see context) from:
* Sephiroth in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII'' is initially shown to be quite sympathetic despite Cloud's hatred of him. He saves the party at Shinra HQ and seems to be working against the Evil Corporation finding the Promised Land. Even during Cloud's flashback, when you discover that he's not human (his Mom, Jenova, is actually a feminine alien in a tank), he remains worthy of pity. But then he goes crazy and burns down Cloud's hometown, killing Cloud's mom and Tifa's dad among others, as well as almost killing the devastated Tifa when she lost it and tried to take revenge for her father. And if that wasn't enough of an Event Horizon for you and you're still somewhat willing to feel sorry for him, there's always the part where [[ItWasHisSled he murders Aerith]].
to:
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII'':
** Sephirothin ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII'' is initially shown to be quite sympathetic despite Cloud's hatred of him. He saves the party at Shinra HQ and seems to be working against the Evil Corporation finding the Promised Land. Even during Cloud's flashback, when you discover that he's not human (his Mom, Jenova, is actually a feminine alien in a tank), he remains worthy of pity. But then he goes crazy and burns down Cloud's hometown, killing Cloud's mom and Tifa's dad among others, as well as almost killing the devastated Tifa when she lost it and tried to take revenge for her father. And if that wasn't enough of an Event Horizon for you and you're still somewhat willing to feel sorry for him, there's always the part where [[ItWasHisSled he murders Aerith]].
** Sephiroth
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
It's not possible to cross this twice. Kefka crossed it when he poisoned Doma.
Deleted line(s) 11 (click to see context) :
** Of course, the WhamEpisode of the game, when Kefka causes a cataclysm when he intentionally moves the statues out of sync on the Floating Continent, more than cements his status as not only an evil person, but a [[TheStarscream usurping]] BigBad, as well.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
** Golbez subverts it. His atrocities throughout the game would count, except [[spoiler:he was being manipulated by Zemus]] and is clearly remorseful for his crimes, taking full responsibility.
to:
** Golbez subverts it. His atrocities throughout the game would count, except [[spoiler:he he was being manipulated by Zemus]] Zemus and is clearly remorseful for his crimes, taking full responsibility.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 16 (click to see context) from:
*** Not to mention his experiments not only gave Vincent the ability to into a vicious beast, a hulking monster, a [[Franchise/Fridaythe13th Jason Expy (with Hockey mask and chainsaw)]] and Chaos, or a more fitting word would be TheDevil. Said experiments also made him [[AndIMustScream immortal]].
to:
*** Not to mention his experiments not only gave Vincent the ability to turn into a vicious beast, a hulking monster, a [[Franchise/Fridaythe13th Jason Expy (with Hockey mask and chainsaw)]] and Chaos, or a more fitting word would be TheDevil.[[VideoGame/FinalFantasyI Chaos]]. Said experiments also made him [[AndIMustScream immortal]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 4 (click to see context) from:
** This trope is played straight not by [[TheDragon Golbez]], but by [[MadScientist Dr. Lugeie]]. Lugeie [[spoiler:turns Edge's parents into hideous monsters, and they decide to kill themselves in order to [[DyingAsYourself die before they lose their minds]]]]. It is notable that he did ''not'' do this on anyone's orders, but completely on his own. This act is considered so heinous that even ''[[NobleDemon Rubicante]]'' [[EvenEvilHasStandards is furious and apologizes to Edge]].
to:
** This trope is played straight not by [[TheDragon Golbez]], but by [[MadScientist Dr. Lugeie]]. Lugeie Lugae]]. Lugae [[spoiler:turns Edge's parents into hideous monsters, and they decide to kill themselves in order to [[DyingAsYourself die before they lose their minds]]]]. It is notable that he did ''not'' do this on anyone's orders, but completely on his own. This act is considered so heinous that even ''[[NobleDemon Rubicante]]'' [[EvenEvilHasStandards is furious and apologizes to Edge]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** And DLC gives him some pre-JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope sympathy when it's revealed [[spoiler:the Top God ''intentionally'' made Ardyn an Anti-Christ, and outright ordered his brother to betray him, with all the death and chaos Ardyn would cause premeditated, just so he would have a convenient means of turning a loose horde of monsters with varying motivations into a unified, destructive, but vulnerable KeystoneArmy. Up until that point, there was no confirmation that the gods saw humans as their [[CosmicPlaything puppets]].]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIV'' both subverts it and plays it straight. This trope is played straight not by [[TheDragon Golbez]], but by [[MadScientist Dr. Lugeie]]. Lugeie [[spoiler:turns Edge's parents into hideous monsters, and they decide to kill themselves in order to [[DyingAsYourself die before they lose their minds]]]]. It is notable that he did ''not'' do this on anyone's orders, but completely on his own. This act is considered so heinous that even]] ''[[NobleDemon Rubicante]]'' [[EvenEvilHasStandards is furious and apologizes to Edge]].
to:
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIV'' both subverts it and plays it straight. straight.
** This trope is played straight not by [[TheDragon Golbez]], but by [[MadScientist Dr. Lugeie]]. Lugeie [[spoiler:turns Edge's parents into hideous monsters, and they decide to kill themselves in order to [[DyingAsYourself die before they lose their minds]]]]. It is notable that he did ''not'' do this on anyone's orders, but completely on his own. This act is considered so heinous thateven]] even ''[[NobleDemon Rubicante]]'' [[EvenEvilHasStandards is furious and apologizes to Edge]].
** This trope is played straight not by [[TheDragon Golbez]], but by [[MadScientist Dr. Lugeie]]. Lugeie [[spoiler:turns Edge's parents into hideous monsters, and they decide to kill themselves in order to [[DyingAsYourself die before they lose their minds]]]]. It is notable that he did ''not'' do this on anyone's orders, but completely on his own. This act is considered so heinous that
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 19,31 (click to see context) from:
** Gerrith Barrington from the same game is far worse, he razes Rapha and Marach's village and kidnaps them to raise for the purpose of using them to claim the Throne of Ivalice for himself. If that doesn't push him into irredeemable evil territory, his [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil sexual abuse]] of Rapha definitely does. He's essentially the [[VideoGame/PokemonBlackAndWhite Ghetsis Harmonia]] of Final Fantasy, only worse.
** Hashmal [[TheChessmaster is responsible for all of the bloodshed in the conflict]], just to revive the fallen Ultima. He also turns his host body Folmarv Tengile into an [[AbusiveParents abusive father]] who [[OffingTheOffspring murdered his own son]], massacred an entire castle, and kidnapped [[DistressedDamsel Alma]] so that he could use her as a host body for Ultima. He then decides to resurrect the recently deceased Zalbaag and [[TragicMonster force him]] to [[ICannotSelfTerminate fight]] Ramza.
'''''Franchise/KingdomHearts'''''
* Ansem ([[spoiler:actually Xehanort]]) definitely crossed this line in the original ''[[VideoGame/KingdomHeartsI Kingdom Hearts]]'' when it was revealed that he experimented on ''living people'' just ForScience. And it was ''outright stated'' that the experiments caused their hearts to collapse!
* [[spoiler:Ansem's former self]] Master Xehanort may have did a lot of bad things throughout his life, but [[spoiler:extracting the Darkness from Ventus's heart and creating Vantias (which almost led to the boy's death)]] really says a lot. But he may have already crossed it in his youth, [[spoiler:when he travels into the future and destroys [[{{TheHero}} Sora]]'s heart. Or earlier, when he almost suffocates the boy]].
* Saïx of Organization XIII crosses this when he coldly refuses to take Sora to Kairi, opting to use her kidnapping to make the Keybearer full of rage if it means [[spoiler:collecting more Hearts to finish Kingdom Hearts for, what Saïx wouldn't know at the time, Xehanort's ultimate goal of using it to make clones of himself]].
* Multiple Disney Villains have crossed the line, but the moment they crossed it is often the same as in their source films. This is ''not'' the case with [[Disney/{{Aladdin}} Jafar]], [[Disney/{{Cinderella}} Lady Tremaine]], [[Disney/TheLionKing Scar]], and [[Film/TronLegacy Clu]]; all of them have committed acts so heinous that they're viewed as larger monsters in this franchise than they are in their films.
** Jafar crosses this line when he orders Genie to show him the Keyhole for Agrabah. Had Sora not shown up, the end result of this would amount to genocide, as the world would've been destroyed by the Heartless, and everyone in it being killed, which is what Jafar ''wanted''. He is far worse in ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII'', where he becomes an OmnicidalManiac bent on destroying the entire universe.
** Lady Tremaine crosses the line when she outright tries to murder Cinderella with [[TheHeartless an Unversed]] which was summoned [[ThePowerOfHate from her hatred towards her]].
** Clu crosses the line when he [[spoiler:forces Sora to [[FightingYourFriend fight]] [[BrainwashedAndCrazy Tron/Rinzler]], then kills the latter after the battle]].
** However, all of this amounts nothing to the actions committed by [[Disney/SleepingBeauty Maleficent]] throughout the entire franchise. She's single-handedly responsible for hundreds, if not ''thousands'' of worlds being destroyed, and the deaths of billions of innocent people; a record unmatched in Disney history [[Film/TheForceAwakens until the Starkiller Base]]. She's kidnapped girls who's hearts are pure light and forced them into deep sleep until all seven of them are brought together for universal domination ([[TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt or worse, the end of reality itself]]). And she's even tricked Terra into [[spoiler:stealing Princess Aurora's heart]], and is in direct league with Xehanort.
** Scar might be operating on a smaller scale than Maleficent, but he still manages to be far worse. Aside from his canon atrocities, he crosses the line when he gleefully tries to eat Sora shortly after the later arrives in his world. What makes this particularly vile is Sora is in the form of a Lion Cub, so Scar essentially wants to cannibalize ''a child''. It's also worth mentioning that he's the only character in the series so far other than Xehanort that's been able to keep his original form as a Heartless.
** Hashmal [[TheChessmaster is responsible for all of the bloodshed in the conflict]], just to revive the fallen Ultima. He also turns his host body Folmarv Tengile into an [[AbusiveParents abusive father]] who [[OffingTheOffspring murdered his own son]], massacred an entire castle, and kidnapped [[DistressedDamsel Alma]] so that he could use her as a host body for Ultima. He then decides to resurrect the recently deceased Zalbaag and [[TragicMonster force him]] to [[ICannotSelfTerminate fight]] Ramza.
'''''Franchise/KingdomHearts'''''
* Ansem ([[spoiler:actually Xehanort]]) definitely crossed this line in the original ''[[VideoGame/KingdomHeartsI Kingdom Hearts]]'' when it was revealed that he experimented on ''living people'' just ForScience. And it was ''outright stated'' that the experiments caused their hearts to collapse!
* [[spoiler:Ansem's former self]] Master Xehanort may have did a lot of bad things throughout his life, but [[spoiler:extracting the Darkness from Ventus's heart and creating Vantias (which almost led to the boy's death)]] really says a lot. But he may have already crossed it in his youth, [[spoiler:when he travels into the future and destroys [[{{TheHero}} Sora]]'s heart. Or earlier, when he almost suffocates the boy]].
* Saïx of Organization XIII crosses this when he coldly refuses to take Sora to Kairi, opting to use her kidnapping to make the Keybearer full of rage if it means [[spoiler:collecting more Hearts to finish Kingdom Hearts for, what Saïx wouldn't know at the time, Xehanort's ultimate goal of using it to make clones of himself]].
* Multiple Disney Villains have crossed the line, but the moment they crossed it is often the same as in their source films. This is ''not'' the case with [[Disney/{{Aladdin}} Jafar]], [[Disney/{{Cinderella}} Lady Tremaine]], [[Disney/TheLionKing Scar]], and [[Film/TronLegacy Clu]]; all of them have committed acts so heinous that they're viewed as larger monsters in this franchise than they are in their films.
** Jafar crosses this line when he orders Genie to show him the Keyhole for Agrabah. Had Sora not shown up, the end result of this would amount to genocide, as the world would've been destroyed by the Heartless, and everyone in it being killed, which is what Jafar ''wanted''. He is far worse in ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII'', where he becomes an OmnicidalManiac bent on destroying the entire universe.
** Lady Tremaine crosses the line when she outright tries to murder Cinderella with [[TheHeartless an Unversed]] which was summoned [[ThePowerOfHate from her hatred towards her]].
** Clu crosses the line when he [[spoiler:forces Sora to [[FightingYourFriend fight]] [[BrainwashedAndCrazy Tron/Rinzler]], then kills the latter after the battle]].
** However, all of this amounts nothing to the actions committed by [[Disney/SleepingBeauty Maleficent]] throughout the entire franchise. She's single-handedly responsible for hundreds, if not ''thousands'' of worlds being destroyed, and the deaths of billions of innocent people; a record unmatched in Disney history [[Film/TheForceAwakens until the Starkiller Base]]. She's kidnapped girls who's hearts are pure light and forced them into deep sleep until all seven of them are brought together for universal domination ([[TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt or worse, the end of reality itself]]). And she's even tricked Terra into [[spoiler:stealing Princess Aurora's heart]], and is in direct league with Xehanort.
** Scar might be operating on a smaller scale than Maleficent, but he still manages to be far worse. Aside from his canon atrocities, he crosses the line when he gleefully tries to eat Sora shortly after the later arrives in his world. What makes this particularly vile is Sora is in the form of a Lion Cub, so Scar essentially wants to cannibalize ''a child''. It's also worth mentioning that he's the only character in the series so far other than Xehanort that's been able to keep his original form as a Heartless.
to:
** Gerrith Barrington from the same game is far worse, he razes Rapha and Marach's village and kidnaps them to raise for the purpose of using them to claim the Throne of Ivalice for himself. If that doesn't push him into irredeemable evil territory, his [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil sexual abuse]] of Rapha definitely does. He's essentially the [[VideoGame/PokemonBlackAndWhite Ghetsis Harmonia]] of Final Fantasy, ''Final Fantasy'', only worse.
** Hashmal [[TheChessmaster is responsible for all of the bloodshed in the conflict]], just to revive the fallen Ultima. He also turns his host body Folmarv Tengile into an [[AbusiveParents abusive father]] who [[OffingTheOffspring murdered his own son]], massacred an entire castle, and kidnapped [[DistressedDamsel Alma]] so that he could use her as a host body for Ultima. He then decides to resurrect the recently deceased Zalbaag and [[TragicMonster force him]] to [[ICannotSelfTerminate fight]]Ramza.
'''''Franchise/KingdomHearts'''''
* Ansem ([[spoiler:actually Xehanort]]) definitely crossed this line in the original ''[[VideoGame/KingdomHeartsI Kingdom Hearts]]'' when it was revealed that he experimented on ''living people'' just ForScience. And it was ''outright stated'' that the experiments caused their hearts to collapse!
* [[spoiler:Ansem's former self]] Master Xehanort may have did a lot of bad things throughout his life, but [[spoiler:extracting the Darkness from Ventus's heart and creating Vantias (which almost led to the boy's death)]] really says a lot. But he may have already crossed it in his youth, [[spoiler:when he travels into the future and destroys [[{{TheHero}} Sora]]'s heart. Or earlier, when he almost suffocates the boy]].
* Saïx of Organization XIII crosses this when he coldly refuses to take Sora to Kairi, opting to use her kidnapping to make the Keybearer full of rage if it means [[spoiler:collecting more Hearts to finish Kingdom Hearts for, what Saïx wouldn't know at the time, Xehanort's ultimate goal of using it to make clones of himself]].
* Multiple Disney Villains have crossed the line, but the moment they crossed it is often the same as in their source films. This is ''not'' the case with [[Disney/{{Aladdin}} Jafar]], [[Disney/{{Cinderella}} Lady Tremaine]], [[Disney/TheLionKing Scar]], and [[Film/TronLegacy Clu]]; all of them have committed acts so heinous that they're viewed as larger monsters in this franchise than they are in their films.
** Jafar crosses this line when he orders Genie to show him the Keyhole for Agrabah. Had Sora not shown up, the end result of this would amount to genocide, as the world would've been destroyed by the Heartless, and everyone in it being killed, which is what Jafar ''wanted''. He is far worse in ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII'', where he becomes an OmnicidalManiac bent on destroying the entire universe.
** Lady Tremaine crosses the line when she outright tries to murder Cinderella with [[TheHeartless an Unversed]] which was summoned [[ThePowerOfHate from her hatred towards her]].
** Clu crosses the line when he [[spoiler:forces Sora to [[FightingYourFriend fight]] [[BrainwashedAndCrazy Tron/Rinzler]], then kills the latter after the battle]].
** However, all of this amounts nothing to the actions committed by [[Disney/SleepingBeauty Maleficent]] throughout the entire franchise. She's single-handedly responsible for hundreds, if not ''thousands'' of worlds being destroyed, and the deaths of billions of innocent people; a record unmatched in Disney history [[Film/TheForceAwakens until the Starkiller Base]]. She's kidnapped girls who's hearts are pure light and forced them into deep sleep until all seven of them are brought together for universal domination ([[TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt or worse, the end of reality itself]]). And she's even tricked Terra into [[spoiler:stealing Princess Aurora's heart]], and is in direct league with Xehanort.
** Scar might be operating on a smaller scale than Maleficent, but he still manages to be far worse. Aside from his canon atrocities, he crosses the line when he gleefully tries to eat Sora shortly after the later arrives in his world. What makes this particularly vile is Sora is in the form of a Lion Cub, so Scar essentially wants to cannibalize ''a child''. It's also worth mentioning that he's the only character in the series so far other than Xehanort that's been able to keep his original form as a Heartless.Ramza.
** Hashmal [[TheChessmaster is responsible for all of the bloodshed in the conflict]], just to revive the fallen Ultima. He also turns his host body Folmarv Tengile into an [[AbusiveParents abusive father]] who [[OffingTheOffspring murdered his own son]], massacred an entire castle, and kidnapped [[DistressedDamsel Alma]] so that he could use her as a host body for Ultima. He then decides to resurrect the recently deceased Zalbaag and [[TragicMonster force him]] to [[ICannotSelfTerminate fight]]
'''''Franchise/KingdomHearts'''''
* Ansem ([[spoiler:actually Xehanort]]) definitely crossed this line in the original ''[[VideoGame/KingdomHeartsI Kingdom Hearts]]'' when it was revealed that he experimented on ''living people'' just ForScience. And it was ''outright stated'' that the experiments caused their hearts to collapse!
* [[spoiler:Ansem's former self]] Master Xehanort may have did a lot of bad things throughout his life, but [[spoiler:extracting the Darkness from Ventus's heart and creating Vantias (which almost led to the boy's death)]] really says a lot. But he may have already crossed it in his youth, [[spoiler:when he travels into the future and destroys [[{{TheHero}} Sora]]'s heart. Or earlier, when he almost suffocates the boy]].
* Saïx of Organization XIII crosses this when he coldly refuses to take Sora to Kairi, opting to use her kidnapping to make the Keybearer full of rage if it means [[spoiler:collecting more Hearts to finish Kingdom Hearts for, what Saïx wouldn't know at the time, Xehanort's ultimate goal of using it to make clones of himself]].
* Multiple Disney Villains have crossed the line, but the moment they crossed it is often the same as in their source films. This is ''not'' the case with [[Disney/{{Aladdin}} Jafar]], [[Disney/{{Cinderella}} Lady Tremaine]], [[Disney/TheLionKing Scar]], and [[Film/TronLegacy Clu]]; all of them have committed acts so heinous that they're viewed as larger monsters in this franchise than they are in their films.
** Jafar crosses this line when he orders Genie to show him the Keyhole for Agrabah. Had Sora not shown up, the end result of this would amount to genocide, as the world would've been destroyed by the Heartless, and everyone in it being killed, which is what Jafar ''wanted''. He is far worse in ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII'', where he becomes an OmnicidalManiac bent on destroying the entire universe.
** Lady Tremaine crosses the line when she outright tries to murder Cinderella with [[TheHeartless an Unversed]] which was summoned [[ThePowerOfHate from her hatred towards her]].
** Clu crosses the line when he [[spoiler:forces Sora to [[FightingYourFriend fight]] [[BrainwashedAndCrazy Tron/Rinzler]], then kills the latter after the battle]].
** However, all of this amounts nothing to the actions committed by [[Disney/SleepingBeauty Maleficent]] throughout the entire franchise. She's single-handedly responsible for hundreds, if not ''thousands'' of worlds being destroyed, and the deaths of billions of innocent people; a record unmatched in Disney history [[Film/TheForceAwakens until the Starkiller Base]]. She's kidnapped girls who's hearts are pure light and forced them into deep sleep until all seven of them are brought together for universal domination ([[TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt or worse, the end of reality itself]]). And she's even tricked Terra into [[spoiler:stealing Princess Aurora's heart]], and is in direct league with Xehanort.
** Scar might be operating on a smaller scale than Maleficent, but he still manages to be far worse. Aside from his canon atrocities, he crosses the line when he gleefully tries to eat Sora shortly after the later arrives in his world. What makes this particularly vile is Sora is in the form of a Lion Cub, so Scar essentially wants to cannibalize ''a child''. It's also worth mentioning that he's the only character in the series so far other than Xehanort that's been able to keep his original form as a Heartless.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
* 'VideoGame/FinalFantasyVI'':
to:
* 'VideoGame/FinalFantasyVI'':''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVI'':
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIV'' both subverts it and plays it straight. This trope is played straight not by [[TheDragon Golbez]], but by [[MadScientist Dr. Lugeie]]. Lugeie [[spoiler:turns Edge's parents into hideous monsters, and they decide to kill themselves in order to [[DyingAsYourself die before they lose their minds]]]]. It is notable that he did ''not'' do this on anyone's orders, but completely on his own. [[EvenEvilHasStandards This act is considered so heinous that even]] ''[[EvenEvilHasStandards Rubicante]]'' [[EvenEvilHasStandards is furious and apologizes to Edge]].
to:
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIV'' both subverts it and plays it straight. This trope is played straight not by [[TheDragon Golbez]], but by [[MadScientist Dr. Lugeie]]. Lugeie [[spoiler:turns Edge's parents into hideous monsters, and they decide to kill themselves in order to [[DyingAsYourself die before they lose their minds]]]]. It is notable that he did ''not'' do this on anyone's orders, but completely on his own. [[EvenEvilHasStandards This act is considered so heinous that even]] ''[[EvenEvilHasStandards ''[[NobleDemon Rubicante]]'' [[EvenEvilHasStandards is furious and apologizes to Edge]].
Changed line(s) 23,24 (click to see context) from:
* Ansem ([[spoiler:actually Xehanort]]) definitely crossed this line in the original ''[[VideoGame/KingdomHeartsI Kingdom Hearts]]'' when it was revealed that he experimented on ''living people'' just ForScience. And it was ''outright stated'' that the experiments caused their hearts to collapse! In this series, hearts are a CaptainErsatz for souls. So essentially, his experiments caused people's ''frickin' souls'' to collapse!
* Master Xehanort may have did a lot of bad things throughout his life, but [[spoiler:extracting the Darkness from Ventus's heart and creating Vantias (which almost led to the boy's death)]] really says a lot. But he may have already crossed it in his youth, [[spoiler:when he travels into the future and destroys [[{{TheHero}} Sora]]'s heart. Or earlier, when he almost suffocates the boy]].
* Master Xehanort may have did a lot of bad things throughout his life, but [[spoiler:extracting the Darkness from Ventus's heart and creating Vantias (which almost led to the boy's death)]] really says a lot. But he may have already crossed it in his youth, [[spoiler:when he travels into the future and destroys [[{{TheHero}} Sora]]'s heart. Or earlier, when he almost suffocates the boy]].
to:
* Ansem ([[spoiler:actually Xehanort]]) definitely crossed this line in the original ''[[VideoGame/KingdomHeartsI Kingdom Hearts]]'' when it was revealed that he experimented on ''living people'' just ForScience. And it was ''outright stated'' that the experiments caused their hearts to collapse! In this series, hearts are a CaptainErsatz for souls. So essentially, his experiments caused people's ''frickin' souls'' to collapse!
* [[spoiler:Ansem's former self]] Master Xehanort may have did a lot of bad things throughout his life, but [[spoiler:extracting the Darkness from Ventus's heart and creating Vantias (which almost led to the boy's death)]] really says a lot. But he may have already crossed it in his youth, [[spoiler:when he travels into the future and destroys [[{{TheHero}} Sora]]'s heart. Or earlier, when he almost suffocates the boy]].
* [[spoiler:Ansem's former self]] Master Xehanort may have did a lot of bad things throughout his life, but [[spoiler:extracting the Darkness from Ventus's heart and creating Vantias (which almost led to the boy's death)]] really says a lot. But he may have already crossed it in his youth, [[spoiler:when he travels into the future and destroys [[{{TheHero}} Sora]]'s heart. Or earlier, when he almost suffocates the boy]].
Changed line(s) 26 (click to see context) from:
* Multiple Disney Villains have crossed the line, but the moment they crossed it is often the same as in their source films. This is ''not'' the case with [[Disney/{{Aladdin}} Jafar]], [[Disney/{{Cinderella}} Lady Tremaine and her daughters]], [[Disney/TheLionKing Scar]], and [[Film/TronLegacy Clu]]; all of them have committed acts so heinous that they're viewed as larger monsters in this franchise than they are in their films.
to:
* Multiple Disney Villains have crossed the line, but the moment they crossed it is often the same as in their source films. This is ''not'' the case with [[Disney/{{Aladdin}} Jafar]], [[Disney/{{Cinderella}} Lady Tremaine and her daughters]], Tremaine]], [[Disney/TheLionKing Scar]], and [[Film/TronLegacy Clu]]; all of them have committed acts so heinous that they're viewed as larger monsters in this franchise than they are in their films.
Changed line(s) 28 (click to see context) from:
** Lady Tremaine crosses the line when she outright tries to murder Cinderella with [[TheHeartless an Unversed]] which was summoned [[ThePowerOfHate from her hatred towards her]]. Her daughters cross the line with her at the same time.
to:
** Lady Tremaine crosses the line when she outright tries to murder Cinderella with [[TheHeartless an Unversed]] which was summoned [[ThePowerOfHate from her hatred towards her]]. Her daughters cross the line with her at the same time.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
moderator restored to earlier version
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 26 (click to see context) from:
* Multiple Disney Villains have crossed the line, but the moment they crossed it is often the same as in their source films. This is ''not'' the case with [[Disney/{{Aladdin}} Jafar]], [[Disney/{{Cinderella}} Lady Tremaine and her daughters]], [[Disney/TheLionKing Scar]], and [[Film/TronLegacy Clu]]; all of them have committed acts so heinous that they're viewed as larger monsters in this franchise than they are in their films.
to:
* Multiple Disney Villains have crossed the line, but the moment they crossed it is often the same as in their source films. This is ''not'' the case with [[Disney/{{Aladdin}} Jafar]], [[Disney/{{Cinderella}} Lady Tremaine and her daughters]], Tremaine]], [[Disney/TheLionKing Scar]], and [[Film/TronLegacy Clu]]; all of them have committed acts so heinous that they're viewed as larger monsters in this franchise than they are in their films.
Changed line(s) 28 (click to see context) from:
** Lady Tremaine crosses the line when she outright tries to murder Cinderella with [[TheHeartless an Unversed]] which was summoned [[ThePowerOfHate from her hatred towards her]]. Her daughters cross the line with her at the same time.
to:
** Lady Tremaine crosses the line when she outright tries to murder Cinderella with [[TheHeartless an Unversed]] which was summoned [[ThePowerOfHate from her hatred towards her]]. Her daughters cross the line with her at the same time.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
'''Franchise/FinalFantasy'''
to:
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
* In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVI'', Kefka is introduced as more of a nuisance, but a general of the enemy Empire nonetheless. His clownish charm fades rather quickly, however, after he disobeys direct orders and poisons Doma's water supply. The situation up to that point: [[AFatherToHisMen General Leo]] had Doma Castle besieged, and was likely to win in just a matter of time with minimal casualties. Some time after Kefka arrives, Leo is summoned back to Vector to meet with the Emperor. Now there's no one to stop Kefka from dumping deadly poison into the Doma River, killing absolutely everyone in the castle; men, women, children, and ''Imperial P.O.W.'s'' that he knew full well were still trapped inside. The kicker here, which cements this act as Kefka gleefully tapdancing and cackling his way across the MoralEventHorizon, is that ''the Empire was going to win anyway''. There was absolutely no possible justification for this heinous war crime other than Kefka wanting to hear [[LovesTheSoundOfScreaming "the music of hundreds of voices screaming in unison"]].
to:
* In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVI'', 'VideoGame/FinalFantasyVI'':
** Kefka is introduced as more of a nuisance, but a general of the enemy Empire nonetheless. His clownish charm fades rather quickly, however, after he disobeys direct orders and poisons Doma's water supply. The situation up to that point: [[AFatherToHisMen General Leo]] had Doma Castle besieged, and was likely to win in just a matter of time with minimal casualties. Some time after Kefka arrives, Leo is summoned back to Vector to meet with the Emperor. Now there's no one to stop Kefka from dumping deadly poison into the Doma River, killing absolutely everyone in the castle; men, women, children, and ''Imperial P.O.W.'s'' that he knew full well were still trapped inside. The kicker here, which cements this act as Kefka gleefully tapdancing and cackling his way across the MoralEventHorizon, is that ''the Empire was going to win anyway''. There was absolutely no possible justification for this heinous war crime other than Kefka wanting to hear [[LovesTheSoundOfScreaming "the music of hundreds of voices screaming in unison"]].
** Kefka is introduced as more of a nuisance, but a general of the enemy Empire nonetheless. His clownish charm fades rather quickly, however, after he disobeys direct orders and poisons Doma's water supply. The situation up to that point: [[AFatherToHisMen General Leo]] had Doma Castle besieged, and was likely to win in just a matter of time with minimal casualties. Some time after Kefka arrives, Leo is summoned back to Vector to meet with the Emperor. Now there's no one to stop Kefka from dumping deadly poison into the Doma River, killing absolutely everyone in the castle; men, women, children, and ''Imperial P.O.W.'s'' that he knew full well were still trapped inside. The kicker here, which cements this act as Kefka gleefully tapdancing and cackling his way across the MoralEventHorizon, is that ''the Empire was going to win anyway''. There was absolutely no possible justification for this heinous war crime other than Kefka wanting to hear [[LovesTheSoundOfScreaming "the music of hundreds of voices screaming in unison"]].
Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
** Of course, the TurningPoint of the game, when Kefka causes a cataclysm when he intentionally moves the statues out of sync on the Floating Continent, more than cements his status as not only an evil person, but a [[TheStarscream usurping]] BigBad, as well.
to:
** Of course, the TurningPoint WhamEpisode of the game, when Kefka causes a cataclysm when he intentionally moves the statues out of sync on the Floating Continent, more than cements his status as not only an evil person, but a [[TheStarscream usurping]] BigBad, as well.
Changed line(s) 17 (click to see context) from:
* VideoGame/FinalFantasyTactics has the [[HateSink despised]] Algus Sadalfus, who at first appears to merely be a classist {{Jerkass}} until he [[spoiler:casually kills Tetra when an enemy tried to use her as a Human Shield]].
to:
* VideoGame/FinalFantasyTactics ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyTactics'' has the [[HateSink despised]] Algus Sadalfus, who at first appears to merely be a classist {{Jerkass}} until he [[spoiler:casually kills Tetra when an enemy tried to use her as a Human Shield]].
Changed line(s) 21 (click to see context) from:
'''Franchise/KingdomHearts'''
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIV'' both subverts it and plays it straight. This trope is played straight not by [[TheDragon Golbez]], but by [[MadScientist Dr. Lugeie]]. Lugeie [[spoiler:turns Edge's parents into hideous monsters, and they decide to kill themselves in order to [[DyingAsYourself die before they lose their minds]]]]. It is notable that he did ''not'' do this on anyone's orders, but completely on his own. [[EvenEvilHasStandards This act is considered so heinous that even ''Rubicante'' is furious and apologizes to Edge]].
to:
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIV'' both subverts it and plays it straight. This trope is played straight not by [[TheDragon Golbez]], but by [[MadScientist Dr. Lugeie]]. Lugeie [[spoiler:turns Edge's parents into hideous monsters, and they decide to kill themselves in order to [[DyingAsYourself die before they lose their minds]]]]. It is notable that he did ''not'' do this on anyone's orders, but completely on his own. [[EvenEvilHasStandards This act is considered so heinous that even ''Rubicante'' even]] ''[[EvenEvilHasStandards Rubicante]]'' [[EvenEvilHasStandards is furious and apologizes to Edge]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Drizella and Anastasia are just as responcible for the Cursed Coach's summoning as their mother, so they should be mentioned too
Changed line(s) 25 (click to see context) from:
* Multiple Disney Villains have crossed the line, but the moment they crossed it is often the same as in their source films. This is ''not'' the case with [[Disney/{{Aladdin}} Jafar]], [[Disney/{{Cinderella}} Lady Tremaine ]], [[Disney/TheLionKing Scar]], and [[Film/TronLegacy Clu]]; all of them have committed acts so heinous that they're viewed as larger monsters in this franchise than they are in their films.
to:
* Multiple Disney Villains have crossed the line, but the moment they crossed it is often the same as in their source films. This is ''not'' the case with [[Disney/{{Aladdin}} Jafar]], [[Disney/{{Cinderella}} Lady Tremaine ]], and her daughters]], [[Disney/TheLionKing Scar]], and [[Film/TronLegacy Clu]]; all of them have committed acts so heinous that they're viewed as larger monsters in this franchise than they are in their films.
Changed line(s) 27 (click to see context) from:
** Lady Tremaine crosses the line when she outright tries to murder Cinderella with [[TheHeartless an Unversed]] which was summoned [[ThePowerOfHate from her hatred towards her]].
to:
** Lady Tremaine crosses the line when she outright tries to murder Cinderella with [[TheHeartless an Unversed]] which was summoned [[ThePowerOfHate from her hatred towards her]]. Her daughters cross the line with her at the same time.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 29 (click to see context) from:
** However, all of this amounts nothing to the actions committed by [[Disney/SleepingBeauty Maleficent]] throughout the entire franchise. She's single-handedly responsible for hundreds, if not ''thousands'' of worlds being destroyed, and the deaths of billions of innocent people; a record unmatched in Disney history [[Film/TheForceAwakens until the Starkiller Base]]. She's kidnapped girls who's hearts are pure light and forced them into deep sleep until all seven of them are brought together for universal domination ([[TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt or worse, the end of reality itself]]). She has tried to turn Santa Claus into a Heartless! And she's even tricked Terra into [[spoiler:stealing Princess Aurora's heart]], and is in direct league with Xehanort.
to:
** However, all of this amounts nothing to the actions committed by [[Disney/SleepingBeauty Maleficent]] throughout the entire franchise. She's single-handedly responsible for hundreds, if not ''thousands'' of worlds being destroyed, and the deaths of billions of innocent people; a record unmatched in Disney history [[Film/TheForceAwakens until the Starkiller Base]]. She's kidnapped girls who's hearts are pure light and forced them into deep sleep until all seven of them are brought together for universal domination ([[TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt or worse, the end of reality itself]]). She has tried to turn Santa Claus into a Heartless! And she's even tricked Terra into [[spoiler:stealing Princess Aurora's heart]], and is in direct league with Xehanort.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
'''Franchise/FinalFantasy'''
* In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyII'', after the party fails to stop the Dreadnought's completion, your next visit to several of the game's towns will be met with craters, damaged buildings, and [=NPCs=] mourning the loss of friends and family. This is when it becomes clear that [[MagnificentBastard the Emperor]] isn't kidding around, and he only goes farther from there.
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIV'' both subverts it and plays it straight. This trope is played straight not by [[TheDragon Golbez]], but by [[MadScientist Dr. Lugeie]]. Lugeie [[spoiler:turns Edge's parents into hideous monsters, and they decide to kill themselves in order to [[DyingAsYourself die before they lose their minds]]]]. It is notable that he did ''not'' do this on anyone's orders, but completely on his own. [[EvenEvilHasStandards This act is considered so heinous that even ''Rubicante'' is furious and apologizes to Edge]].
** Golbez subverts it. His atrocities throughout the game would count, except [[spoiler:he was being manipulated by Zemus]] and is clearly remorseful for his crimes, taking full responsibility.
* In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVI'', Kefka is introduced as more of a nuisance, but a general of the enemy Empire nonetheless. His clownish charm fades rather quickly, however, after he disobeys direct orders and poisons Doma's water supply. The situation up to that point: [[AFatherToHisMen General Leo]] had Doma Castle besieged, and was likely to win in just a matter of time with minimal casualties. Some time after Kefka arrives, Leo is summoned back to Vector to meet with the Emperor. Now there's no one to stop Kefka from dumping deadly poison into the Doma River, killing absolutely everyone in the castle; men, women, children, and ''Imperial P.O.W.'s'' that he knew full well were still trapped inside. The kicker here, which cements this act as Kefka gleefully tapdancing and cackling his way across the MoralEventHorizon, is that ''the Empire was going to win anyway''. There was absolutely no possible justification for this heinous war crime other than Kefka wanting to hear [[LovesTheSoundOfScreaming "the music of hundreds of voices screaming in unison"]].
*** His only excuse '''''at all''''' for all this? As an early magitek knight, the process very likely drove him insane. No, that doesn't cut it.
** Emperor Gestahl, while not nearly as crazy as his subordinate Kefka, still crosses the line when he is shown in a flashback to have orchestrated an invasion of the Esper world. While the invasion ends in failure, at the end he discovers an infant half-esper, and rips the baby from her mother's arms, killing the woman in the process, while gloating about how he's going to subject her to a life of experimentation. ''Oh BOY.''
*** Note that in the original SNES translation of the game, this is somewhat softened; Madonna actually asks Gestahl to take care of Terra (which doesn't explain the thwack he still gives her afterwards, however). This was most likely due to Nintendo's NeverSayDie policy at the time rather than a change or error on [[{{Woolseyism}} Ted Woolsey]]'s part.
** Of course, the TurningPoint of the game, when Kefka causes a cataclysm when he intentionally moves the statues out of sync on the Floating Continent, more than cements his status as not only an evil person, but a [[TheStarscream usurping]] BigBad, as well.
* Sephiroth in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII'' is initially shown to be quite sympathetic despite Cloud's hatred of him. He saves the party at Shinra HQ and seems to be working against the Evil Corporation finding the Promised Land. Even during Cloud's flashback, when you discover that he's not human (his Mom, Jenova, is actually a feminine alien in a tank), he remains worthy of pity. But then he goes crazy and burns down Cloud's hometown, killing Cloud's mom and Tifa's dad among others, as well as almost killing the devastated Tifa when she lost it and tried to take revenge for her father. And if that wasn't enough of an Event Horizon for you and you're still somewhat willing to feel sorry for him, there's always the part where [[ItWasHisSled he murders Aerith]].
** President Shinra and Heidegger ordering the destruction of a sector of Midgar just to get rid of some [[YourTerroristsAreOurFreedomFighters terrorists]]. The Turks (mainly Reno and Tseng) might have crossed the line too by actually carrying out this heinous order.
** Then there's Scarlet leading mass murder via the complete destruction of the town of Coral.
** And Hojo. Where do we start with Hojo? Injecting alien cells into his unborn child? Murdering Professor Gast right in front of his wife Ifalna and his child [[spoiler:Aerith]], whom he then kidnaps for horrible experiments? Doing more horrific experiments on Vincent, Zack, and Cloud? Also being indirectly responsible for [[spoiler:Sephiroth's descent into insanity as well as Sephiroth's aforementioned murder of Aerith?]] You might as well assume that he crossed the line right at very ''beginning'' of his career. Taking the ExpandedUniverse into account, Hojo's life seems to consist of finding new lines to cross and gleefully leaping over them like he was practicing for the long jump.
*** Not to mention his experiments not only gave Vincent the ability to into a vicious beast, a hulking monster, a [[Franchise/Fridaythe13th Jason Expy (with Hockey mask and chainsaw)]] and Chaos, or a more fitting word would be TheDevil. Said experiments also made him [[AndIMustScream immortal]].
* Judge Bergan's rampage on Mt Bur-Omisace in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXII'', in which Imperial troops murder unarmed refugees, their guards, and priests indiscriminately, and follow up by killing the Gran Kiltias Anastasis. [[PayEvilUntoEvil Putting Bergan down like a rabid dog]] immediately after finding out is ''very'' satisfying.
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXV'' gives us [[spoiler:Ardyn Izunia]]. Most of the characters only see this character as a creepy one, but not one they consider a BigBad. That is, until [[spoiler: he stabs Lunafreya when she's at her weakest when trying to reason with Leviathan in Altissia, the other characters helpless to do anything about it]].
* VideoGame/FinalFantasyTactics has the [[HateSink despised]] Algus Sadalfus, who at first appears to merely be a classist {{Jerkass}} until he [[spoiler:casually kills Tetra when an enemy tried to use her as a Human Shield]].
** Gerrith Barrington from the same game is far worse, he razes Rapha and Marach's village and kidnaps them to raise for the purpose of using them to claim the Throne of Ivalice for himself. If that doesn't push him into irredeemable evil territory, his [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil sexual abuse]] of Rapha definitely does. He's essentially the [[VideoGame/PokemonBlackAndWhite Ghetsis Harmonia]] of Final Fantasy, only worse.
**Hashmal [[TheChessmaster is responsible for all of the bloodshed in the conflict]], just to revive the fallen Ultima. He also turns his host body Folmarv Tengile into an [[AbusiveParents abusive father]] who [[OffingTheOffspring murdered his own son]], massacred an entire castle, and kidnapped [[DistressedDamsel Alma]] so that he could use her as a host body for Ultima. He then decides to resurrect the recently deceased Zalbaag and [[TragicMonster force him]] to [[ICannotSelfTerminate fight]] Ramza.
'''Franchise/KingdomHearts'''
* Ansem ([[spoiler:actually Xehanort]]) definitely crossed this line in the original ''[[VideoGame/KingdomHeartsI Kingdom Hearts]]'' when it was revealed that he experimented on ''living people'' just ForScience. And it was ''outright stated'' that the experiments caused their hearts to collapse! In this series, hearts are a CaptainErsatz for souls. So essentially, his experiments caused people's ''frickin' souls'' to collapse!
* Master Xehanort may have did a lot of bad things throughout his life, but [[spoiler:extracting the Darkness from Ventus's heart and creating Vantias (which almost led to the boy's death)]] really says a lot. But he may have already crossed it in his youth, [[spoiler:when he travels into the future and destroys [[{{TheHero}} Sora]]'s heart. Or earlier, when he almost suffocates the boy]].
* Saïx of Organization XIII crosses this when he coldly refuses to take Sora to Kairi, opting to use her kidnapping to make the Keybearer full of rage if it means [[spoiler:collecting more Hearts to finish Kingdom Hearts for, what Saïx wouldn't know at the time, Xehanort's ultimate goal of using it to make clones of himself]].
* Multiple Disney Villains have crossed the line, but the moment they crossed it is often the same as in their source films. This is ''not'' the case with [[Disney/{{Aladdin}} Jafar]], [[Disney/{{Cinderella}} Lady Tremaine ]], [[Disney/TheLionKing Scar]], and [[Film/TronLegacy Clu]]; all of them have committed acts so heinous that they're viewed as larger monsters in this franchise than they are in their films.
** Jafar crosses this line when he orders Genie to show him the Keyhole for Agrabah. Had Sora not shown up, the end result of this would amount to genocide, as the world would've been destroyed by the Heartless, and everyone in it being killed, which is what Jafar ''wanted''. He is far worse in ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII'', where he becomes an OmnicidalManiac bent on destroying the entire universe.
** Lady Tremaine crosses the line when she outright tries to murder Cinderella with [[TheHeartless an Unversed]] which was summoned [[ThePowerOfHate from her hatred towards her]].
** Clu crosses the line when he [[spoiler:forces Sora to [[FightingYourFriend fight]] [[BrainwashedAndCrazy Tron/Rinzler]], then kills the latter after the battle]].
** However, all of this amounts nothing to the actions committed by [[Disney/SleepingBeauty Maleficent]] throughout the entire franchise. She's single-handedly responsible for hundreds, if not ''thousands'' of worlds being destroyed, and the deaths of billions of innocent people; a record unmatched in Disney history [[Film/TheForceAwakens until the Starkiller Base]]. She's kidnapped girls who's hearts are pure light and forced them into deep sleep until all seven of them are brought together for universal domination ([[TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt or worse, the end of reality itself]]). She has tried to turn Santa Claus into a Heartless! And she's even tricked Terra into [[spoiler:stealing Princess Aurora's heart]], and is in direct league with Xehanort.
** Scar might be operating on a smaller scale than Maleficent, but he still manages to be far worse. Aside from his canon atrocities, he crosses the line when he gleefully tries to eat Sora shortly after the later arrives in his world. What makes this particularly vile is Sora is in the form of a Lion Cub, so Scar essentially wants to cannibalize ''a child''. It's also worth mentioning that he's the only character in the series so far other than Xehanort that's been able to keep his original form as a Heartless.
* In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyII'', after the party fails to stop the Dreadnought's completion, your next visit to several of the game's towns will be met with craters, damaged buildings, and [=NPCs=] mourning the loss of friends and family. This is when it becomes clear that [[MagnificentBastard the Emperor]] isn't kidding around, and he only goes farther from there.
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIV'' both subverts it and plays it straight. This trope is played straight not by [[TheDragon Golbez]], but by [[MadScientist Dr. Lugeie]]. Lugeie [[spoiler:turns Edge's parents into hideous monsters, and they decide to kill themselves in order to [[DyingAsYourself die before they lose their minds]]]]. It is notable that he did ''not'' do this on anyone's orders, but completely on his own. [[EvenEvilHasStandards This act is considered so heinous that even ''Rubicante'' is furious and apologizes to Edge]].
** Golbez subverts it. His atrocities throughout the game would count, except [[spoiler:he was being manipulated by Zemus]] and is clearly remorseful for his crimes, taking full responsibility.
* In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVI'', Kefka is introduced as more of a nuisance, but a general of the enemy Empire nonetheless. His clownish charm fades rather quickly, however, after he disobeys direct orders and poisons Doma's water supply. The situation up to that point: [[AFatherToHisMen General Leo]] had Doma Castle besieged, and was likely to win in just a matter of time with minimal casualties. Some time after Kefka arrives, Leo is summoned back to Vector to meet with the Emperor. Now there's no one to stop Kefka from dumping deadly poison into the Doma River, killing absolutely everyone in the castle; men, women, children, and ''Imperial P.O.W.'s'' that he knew full well were still trapped inside. The kicker here, which cements this act as Kefka gleefully tapdancing and cackling his way across the MoralEventHorizon, is that ''the Empire was going to win anyway''. There was absolutely no possible justification for this heinous war crime other than Kefka wanting to hear [[LovesTheSoundOfScreaming "the music of hundreds of voices screaming in unison"]].
*** His only excuse '''''at all''''' for all this? As an early magitek knight, the process very likely drove him insane. No, that doesn't cut it.
** Emperor Gestahl, while not nearly as crazy as his subordinate Kefka, still crosses the line when he is shown in a flashback to have orchestrated an invasion of the Esper world. While the invasion ends in failure, at the end he discovers an infant half-esper, and rips the baby from her mother's arms, killing the woman in the process, while gloating about how he's going to subject her to a life of experimentation. ''Oh BOY.''
*** Note that in the original SNES translation of the game, this is somewhat softened; Madonna actually asks Gestahl to take care of Terra (which doesn't explain the thwack he still gives her afterwards, however). This was most likely due to Nintendo's NeverSayDie policy at the time rather than a change or error on [[{{Woolseyism}} Ted Woolsey]]'s part.
** Of course, the TurningPoint of the game, when Kefka causes a cataclysm when he intentionally moves the statues out of sync on the Floating Continent, more than cements his status as not only an evil person, but a [[TheStarscream usurping]] BigBad, as well.
* Sephiroth in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII'' is initially shown to be quite sympathetic despite Cloud's hatred of him. He saves the party at Shinra HQ and seems to be working against the Evil Corporation finding the Promised Land. Even during Cloud's flashback, when you discover that he's not human (his Mom, Jenova, is actually a feminine alien in a tank), he remains worthy of pity. But then he goes crazy and burns down Cloud's hometown, killing Cloud's mom and Tifa's dad among others, as well as almost killing the devastated Tifa when she lost it and tried to take revenge for her father. And if that wasn't enough of an Event Horizon for you and you're still somewhat willing to feel sorry for him, there's always the part where [[ItWasHisSled he murders Aerith]].
** President Shinra and Heidegger ordering the destruction of a sector of Midgar just to get rid of some [[YourTerroristsAreOurFreedomFighters terrorists]]. The Turks (mainly Reno and Tseng) might have crossed the line too by actually carrying out this heinous order.
** Then there's Scarlet leading mass murder via the complete destruction of the town of Coral.
** And Hojo. Where do we start with Hojo? Injecting alien cells into his unborn child? Murdering Professor Gast right in front of his wife Ifalna and his child [[spoiler:Aerith]], whom he then kidnaps for horrible experiments? Doing more horrific experiments on Vincent, Zack, and Cloud? Also being indirectly responsible for [[spoiler:Sephiroth's descent into insanity as well as Sephiroth's aforementioned murder of Aerith?]] You might as well assume that he crossed the line right at very ''beginning'' of his career. Taking the ExpandedUniverse into account, Hojo's life seems to consist of finding new lines to cross and gleefully leaping over them like he was practicing for the long jump.
*** Not to mention his experiments not only gave Vincent the ability to into a vicious beast, a hulking monster, a [[Franchise/Fridaythe13th Jason Expy (with Hockey mask and chainsaw)]] and Chaos, or a more fitting word would be TheDevil. Said experiments also made him [[AndIMustScream immortal]].
* Judge Bergan's rampage on Mt Bur-Omisace in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXII'', in which Imperial troops murder unarmed refugees, their guards, and priests indiscriminately, and follow up by killing the Gran Kiltias Anastasis. [[PayEvilUntoEvil Putting Bergan down like a rabid dog]] immediately after finding out is ''very'' satisfying.
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXV'' gives us [[spoiler:Ardyn Izunia]]. Most of the characters only see this character as a creepy one, but not one they consider a BigBad. That is, until [[spoiler: he stabs Lunafreya when she's at her weakest when trying to reason with Leviathan in Altissia, the other characters helpless to do anything about it]].
* VideoGame/FinalFantasyTactics has the [[HateSink despised]] Algus Sadalfus, who at first appears to merely be a classist {{Jerkass}} until he [[spoiler:casually kills Tetra when an enemy tried to use her as a Human Shield]].
** Gerrith Barrington from the same game is far worse, he razes Rapha and Marach's village and kidnaps them to raise for the purpose of using them to claim the Throne of Ivalice for himself. If that doesn't push him into irredeemable evil territory, his [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil sexual abuse]] of Rapha definitely does. He's essentially the [[VideoGame/PokemonBlackAndWhite Ghetsis Harmonia]] of Final Fantasy, only worse.
**Hashmal [[TheChessmaster is responsible for all of the bloodshed in the conflict]], just to revive the fallen Ultima. He also turns his host body Folmarv Tengile into an [[AbusiveParents abusive father]] who [[OffingTheOffspring murdered his own son]], massacred an entire castle, and kidnapped [[DistressedDamsel Alma]] so that he could use her as a host body for Ultima. He then decides to resurrect the recently deceased Zalbaag and [[TragicMonster force him]] to [[ICannotSelfTerminate fight]] Ramza.
'''Franchise/KingdomHearts'''
* Ansem ([[spoiler:actually Xehanort]]) definitely crossed this line in the original ''[[VideoGame/KingdomHeartsI Kingdom Hearts]]'' when it was revealed that he experimented on ''living people'' just ForScience. And it was ''outright stated'' that the experiments caused their hearts to collapse! In this series, hearts are a CaptainErsatz for souls. So essentially, his experiments caused people's ''frickin' souls'' to collapse!
* Master Xehanort may have did a lot of bad things throughout his life, but [[spoiler:extracting the Darkness from Ventus's heart and creating Vantias (which almost led to the boy's death)]] really says a lot. But he may have already crossed it in his youth, [[spoiler:when he travels into the future and destroys [[{{TheHero}} Sora]]'s heart. Or earlier, when he almost suffocates the boy]].
* Saïx of Organization XIII crosses this when he coldly refuses to take Sora to Kairi, opting to use her kidnapping to make the Keybearer full of rage if it means [[spoiler:collecting more Hearts to finish Kingdom Hearts for, what Saïx wouldn't know at the time, Xehanort's ultimate goal of using it to make clones of himself]].
* Multiple Disney Villains have crossed the line, but the moment they crossed it is often the same as in their source films. This is ''not'' the case with [[Disney/{{Aladdin}} Jafar]], [[Disney/{{Cinderella}} Lady Tremaine ]], [[Disney/TheLionKing Scar]], and [[Film/TronLegacy Clu]]; all of them have committed acts so heinous that they're viewed as larger monsters in this franchise than they are in their films.
** Jafar crosses this line when he orders Genie to show him the Keyhole for Agrabah. Had Sora not shown up, the end result of this would amount to genocide, as the world would've been destroyed by the Heartless, and everyone in it being killed, which is what Jafar ''wanted''. He is far worse in ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII'', where he becomes an OmnicidalManiac bent on destroying the entire universe.
** Lady Tremaine crosses the line when she outright tries to murder Cinderella with [[TheHeartless an Unversed]] which was summoned [[ThePowerOfHate from her hatred towards her]].
** Clu crosses the line when he [[spoiler:forces Sora to [[FightingYourFriend fight]] [[BrainwashedAndCrazy Tron/Rinzler]], then kills the latter after the battle]].
** However, all of this amounts nothing to the actions committed by [[Disney/SleepingBeauty Maleficent]] throughout the entire franchise. She's single-handedly responsible for hundreds, if not ''thousands'' of worlds being destroyed, and the deaths of billions of innocent people; a record unmatched in Disney history [[Film/TheForceAwakens until the Starkiller Base]]. She's kidnapped girls who's hearts are pure light and forced them into deep sleep until all seven of them are brought together for universal domination ([[TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt or worse, the end of reality itself]]). She has tried to turn Santa Claus into a Heartless! And she's even tricked Terra into [[spoiler:stealing Princess Aurora's heart]], and is in direct league with Xehanort.
** Scar might be operating on a smaller scale than Maleficent, but he still manages to be far worse. Aside from his canon atrocities, he crosses the line when he gleefully tries to eat Sora shortly after the later arrives in his world. What makes this particularly vile is Sora is in the form of a Lion Cub, so Scar essentially wants to cannibalize ''a child''. It's also worth mentioning that he's the only character in the series so far other than Xehanort that's been able to keep his original form as a Heartless.
