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** Batmanís status as being one of the purest, most compassionate superheroes of the DC universe and one of itís moral centers. A lot of heroes([[RunningTheAsylum and writers]]) often tend to exaggerate and [[CreatorsPet gush on and on]] [[CharacterShilling about how heís apparently one of the most heroic, purest and uncorruptible superheroes to ever exist]]...despite the fact that even at his campiest and goofiest, he has quite a few moments of [[JerkAss Jerkassery]] under his belt and that he tends to act like an asshole towards everyone, even his closest allies(which often leads to him getting [[WhatTheHellHero berated by said allies quite often]]). And thatís not even getting into the universes(like Frank Millerís All-Star Batman and Robin), where heís at his most ruthless and cruel(made even more jarring by the fact that Frank himself called Batman pure, good and just, yet tends to write Batman as a major dick). Or all the times when one of his plans ends up backfiring on him and almost kills his allies because he refused to trust them out of stubborness and paranoia(Tower Of Babel or Brother Eye, for example). Or the way he treated the rest of the Bat-family(especially Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain) in the past. Or that he almost never listens to what his friends tell him, even when they try to warn him about something, because he tends to think that heís always right about everything and that he knows better than everyone else([[UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom like that time when he got tricked by Barbatos]] into releasing him from the Dark Multiverse and he didnít listen to any of his teammates when they tried to warn him that what he was doing was a horrible idea). Weíre gonna stop here, because if we start listing all the times Batman was an asshole or all of the reasons why heís an asshole, weíd be here until midnight. Donít get us wrong, weíre not saying that Batman isnít a hero. What weíre saying is that while Batman is a hero, calling him one of the purest, most heroic and uncorruptible heroes in the DCU might be a bit of a stretch, considering all the terrible things he did.

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** Batmanís status as being one of the purest, most compassionate superheroes of the DC universe and one of itís moral centers. A lot of heroes([[RunningTheAsylum and writers]]) often tend to exaggerate and [[CreatorsPet gush on and on]] [[CharacterShilling about how heís apparently one of the most heroic, purest and uncorruptible superheroes to ever exist]]...despite the fact that even at his campiest and goofiest, he has quite a few moments of [[JerkAss Jerkassery]] under his belt and that he tends to act like an asshole towards everyone, even his closest allies(which often leads to him getting [[WhatTheHellHero berated by said allies quite often]]).allies]]). And thatís not even getting into the universes(like Frank Millerís All-Star Batman and Robin), where heís at his most ruthless and cruel(made even more jarring by the fact that Frank himself called Batman pure, good and just, yet tends to write Batman as a major dick). Or all the times when one of his plans ends up backfiring on him and almost kills his allies because he refused to trust them out of stubborness and paranoia(Tower Of Babel or Brother Eye, for example). Or the way he treated the rest of the Bat-family(especially Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain) in the past. Or that he almost never listens to what his friends tell him, even when they try to warn him about something, because he tends to think that heís always right about everything and that he knows better than everyone else([[UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom like that time when he got tricked by Barbatos]] into releasing him from the Dark Multiverse and he didnít listen to any of his teammates when they tried to warn him that what he was doing was a horrible idea). Weíre gonna stop here, because if we start listing all the times Batman was an asshole or all of the reasons why heís an asshole, weíd be here until midnight. Donít get us wrong, weíre not saying that Batman isnít a hero. What weíre saying is that while Batman is a hero, calling him one of the purest, most heroic and uncorruptible heroes in the DCU might be a bit of a stretch, considering all the terrible things he did.


** Batmanís status as being one of the purest, most compassionate superheroes of the DC universe and one of itís moral centers. A lot of heroes([[RunningTheAsylum and writers]]) often [[CreatorsPet gush on and on]] [[CharacterShilling about how heís apparently one of the most heroic, purest and uncorruptible superheroes to ever exist]]...despite the fact that even at his campiest and goofiest, he has quite a few moments of [[JerkAss Jerkassery]] under his belt and that he tends to act like an asshole towards everyone, even his closest allies(which often leads to him getting [[WhatTheHellHero berated by said allies quite often]]). And thatís not even getting into the universes(like Frank Millerís All-Star Batman and Robin), where heís at his most ruthless and cruel(made even more jarring by the fact that Frank himself called Batman pure, good and just, yet tends to write Batman as a major dick). Or all the times when one of his plans ends up backfiring on him and almost kills his allies because he refused to trust them out of stubborness and paranoia(Tower Of Babel or Brother Eye, for example). Or the way he treated the rest of the Bat-family(especially Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain) in the past. Or that he almost never listens to what his friends tell him, even when they try to warn him about something, because he tends to think that heís always right about everything and that he knows better than everyone else([[UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom like that time when he got tricked by Barbatos]] into releasing him from the Dark Multiverse and he didnít listen to any of his teammates when they tried to warn him that what he was doing was a horrible idea). Weíre gonna stop here, because if we start listing all the times Batman was an asshole or all of the reasons why heís an asshole, weíd be here until midnight. Donít get us wrong, weíre not saying that Batman isnít a hero. What weíre saying is that while Batman is a hero, calling him one of the purest, most heroic and uncorruptible heroes in the DCU might be a bit of a stretch, considering all the terrible things he did.

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** Batmanís status as being one of the purest, most compassionate superheroes of the DC universe and one of itís moral centers. A lot of heroes([[RunningTheAsylum and writers]]) often tend to exaggerate and [[CreatorsPet gush on and on]] [[CharacterShilling about how heís apparently one of the most heroic, purest and uncorruptible superheroes to ever exist]]...despite the fact that even at his campiest and goofiest, he has quite a few moments of [[JerkAss Jerkassery]] under his belt and that he tends to act like an asshole towards everyone, even his closest allies(which often leads to him getting [[WhatTheHellHero berated by said allies quite often]]). And thatís not even getting into the universes(like Frank Millerís All-Star Batman and Robin), where heís at his most ruthless and cruel(made even more jarring by the fact that Frank himself called Batman pure, good and just, yet tends to write Batman as a major dick). Or all the times when one of his plans ends up backfiring on him and almost kills his allies because he refused to trust them out of stubborness and paranoia(Tower Of Babel or Brother Eye, for example). Or the way he treated the rest of the Bat-family(especially Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain) in the past. Or that he almost never listens to what his friends tell him, even when they try to warn him about something, because he tends to think that heís always right about everything and that he knows better than everyone else([[UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom like that time when he got tricked by Barbatos]] into releasing him from the Dark Multiverse and he didnít listen to any of his teammates when they tried to warn him that what he was doing was a horrible idea). Weíre gonna stop here, because if we start listing all the times Batman was an asshole or all of the reasons why heís an asshole, weíd be here until midnight. Donít get us wrong, weíre not saying that Batman isnít a hero. What weíre saying is that while Batman is a hero, calling him one of the purest, most heroic and uncorruptible heroes in the DCU might be a bit of a stretch, considering all the terrible things he did.


* Batmanís status as being one of the purest, most compassionate superheroes of the DC universe and one of itís moral centers. A lot of heroes([[RunningTheAsylum and writers]]) often [[CreatorsPet gush on and on]] [[CharacterShilling about how heís apparently one of the most heroic, purest and uncorruptible superheroes to ever exist]]...despite the fact that even at his campiest and goofiest, he has quite a few moments of [[JerkAss Jerkassery]] under his belt and that he tends to act like an asshole towards everyone, even his closest allies(which often leads to him getting [[WhatTheHellHero berated by said allies quite often]]). And thatís not even getting into the universes(like Frank Millerís All-Star Batman and Robin), where heís at his most ruthless and cruel(made even more jarring by the fact that Frank himself called Batman pure, good and just, yet tends to write Batman as a major dick). Or all the times when one of his plans ends up backfiring on him and almost kills his allies because he refused to trust them out of stubborness and paranoia(Tower Of Babel or Brother Eye, for example). Or the way he treated the rest of the Bat-family(especially Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain) in the past. Or that he almost never listens to what his friends tell him, even when they try to warn him about something, because he tends to think that heís always right about everything and that he knows better than everyone else([[UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom like that time when he got tricked by Barbatos]] into releasing him from the Dark Multiverse and he didnít listen to any of his teammates when they tried to warn him that what he was doing was a horrible idea). Weíre gonna stop here, because if we start listing all the times Batman was an asshole or all of the reasons why heís an asshole, weíd be here until midnight. Donít get us wrong, weíre not saying that Batman isnít a hero. What weíre saying is that while Batman is a hero, calling him one of the purest, most heroic and uncorruptible heroes in the DCU might be a bit of a stretch, considering all the terrible things he did.


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** Batmanís status as being one of the purest, most compassionate superheroes of the DC universe and one of itís moral centers. A lot of heroes([[RunningTheAsylum and writers]]) often [[CreatorsPet gush on and on]] [[CharacterShilling about how heís apparently one of the most heroic, purest and uncorruptible superheroes to ever exist]]...despite the fact that even at his campiest and goofiest, he has quite a few moments of [[JerkAss Jerkassery]] under his belt and that he tends to act like an asshole towards everyone, even his closest allies(which often leads to him getting [[WhatTheHellHero berated by said allies quite often]]). And thatís not even getting into the universes(like Frank Millerís All-Star Batman and Robin), where heís at his most ruthless and cruel(made even more jarring by the fact that Frank himself called Batman pure, good and just, yet tends to write Batman as a major dick). Or all the times when one of his plans ends up backfiring on him and almost kills his allies because he refused to trust them out of stubborness and paranoia(Tower Of Babel or Brother Eye, for example). Or the way he treated the rest of the Bat-family(especially Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain) in the past. Or that he almost never listens to what his friends tell him, even when they try to warn him about something, because he tends to think that heís always right about everything and that he knows better than everyone else([[UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom like that time when he got tricked by Barbatos]] into releasing him from the Dark Multiverse and he didnít listen to any of his teammates when they tried to warn him that what he was doing was a horrible idea). Weíre gonna stop here, because if we start listing all the times Batman was an asshole or all of the reasons why heís an asshole, weíd be here until midnight. Donít get us wrong, weíre not saying that Batman isnít a hero. What weíre saying is that while Batman is a hero, calling him one of the purest, most heroic and uncorruptible heroes in the DCU might be a bit of a stretch, considering all the terrible things he did.


* Batmanís status as being one of the purest, most compassionate superheroes of the DC universe and one of itís moral centers...A lot of heroes([[RunningTheAsylum and writers]]) often [[CreatorsPet gush on and on]] [[CharacterShilling about how heís apparently one of the most heroic, purest and uncorruptible superheroes to ever exist]]...despite the fact that even at his campiest and goofiest, he has quite a few moments of [[JerkAss Jerkassery]] under his belt and that he tends to act like an asshole towards everyone, even his closest allies(which often leads to him getting [[WhatTheHellHero berated by said allies quite often]]). And thatís not even getting into the universes(like Frank Millerís All-Star Batman and Robin), where heís at his most ruthless and cruel(made even more jarring by the fact that Frank himself called Batman pure, good and just, yet tends to write Batman as a major dick). Or all the times when one of his plans ends up backfiring on him and almost kills his allies because he refused to trust them out of stubborness and paranoia(Tower Of Babel or Brother Eye, for example). Or the way he treated the rest of the Bat-family(especially Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain) in the past. Or that he almost never listens to what his friends tell him, even when they try to warn him about something, because he tends to think that heís always right about everything and that he knows better than everyone else([[UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom like that time when he got tricked by Barbatos]] into releasing him from the Dark Multiverse and he didnít listen to any of his teammates when they tried to warn him that what he was doing was a horrible idea). Weíre gonna stop here, because if we start listing all the times Batman was an asshole or all of the reasons why heís an asshole, weíd be here until midnight. Donít get us wrong, weíre not saying that Batman isnít a hero. What weíre saying is that while Batman is a hero, calling him one of the purest, most heroic and uncorruptible heroes in the DCU might be a bit of a stretch, considering all the terrible things he did.

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* Batmanís status as being one of the purest, most compassionate superheroes of the DC universe and one of itís moral centers...centers. A lot of heroes([[RunningTheAsylum and writers]]) often [[CreatorsPet gush on and on]] [[CharacterShilling about how heís apparently one of the most heroic, purest and uncorruptible superheroes to ever exist]]...despite the fact that even at his campiest and goofiest, he has quite a few moments of [[JerkAss Jerkassery]] under his belt and that he tends to act like an asshole towards everyone, even his closest allies(which often leads to him getting [[WhatTheHellHero berated by said allies quite often]]). And thatís not even getting into the universes(like Frank Millerís All-Star Batman and Robin), where heís at his most ruthless and cruel(made even more jarring by the fact that Frank himself called Batman pure, good and just, yet tends to write Batman as a major dick). Or all the times when one of his plans ends up backfiring on him and almost kills his allies because he refused to trust them out of stubborness and paranoia(Tower Of Babel or Brother Eye, for example). Or the way he treated the rest of the Bat-family(especially Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain) in the past. Or that he almost never listens to what his friends tell him, even when they try to warn him about something, because he tends to think that heís always right about everything and that he knows better than everyone else([[UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom like that time when he got tricked by Barbatos]] into releasing him from the Dark Multiverse and he didnít listen to any of his teammates when they tried to warn him that what he was doing was a horrible idea). Weíre gonna stop here, because if we start listing all the times Batman was an asshole or all of the reasons why heís an asshole, weíd be here until midnight. Donít get us wrong, weíre not saying that Batman isnít a hero. What weíre saying is that while Batman is a hero, calling him one of the purest, most heroic and uncorruptible heroes in the DCU might be a bit of a stretch, considering all the terrible things he did.

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* Batmanís status as being one of the purest, most compassionate superheroes of the DC universe and one of itís moral centers...A lot of heroes([[RunningTheAsylum and writers]]) often [[CreatorsPet gush on and on]] [[CharacterShilling about how heís apparently one of the most heroic, purest and uncorruptible superheroes to ever exist]]...despite the fact that even at his campiest and goofiest, he has quite a few moments of [[JerkAss Jerkassery]] under his belt and that he tends to act like an asshole towards everyone, even his closest allies(which often leads to him getting [[WhatTheHellHero berated by said allies quite often]]). And thatís not even getting into the universes(like Frank Millerís All-Star Batman and Robin), where heís at his most ruthless and cruel(made even more jarring by the fact that Frank himself called Batman pure, good and just, yet tends to write Batman as a major dick). Or all the times when one of his plans ends up backfiring on him and almost kills his allies because he refused to trust them out of stubborness and paranoia(Tower Of Babel or Brother Eye, for example). Or the way he treated the rest of the Bat-family(especially Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain) in the past. Or that he almost never listens to what his friends tell him, even when they try to warn him about something, because he tends to think that heís always right about everything and that he knows better than everyone else([[UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom like that time when he got tricked by Barbatos]] into releasing him from the Dark Multiverse and he didnít listen to any of his teammates when they tried to warn him that what he was doing was a horrible idea). Weíre gonna stop here, because if we start listing all the times Batman was an asshole or all of the reasons why heís an asshole, weíd be here until midnight. Donít get us wrong, weíre not saying that Batman isnít a hero. What weíre saying is that while Batman is a hero, calling him one of the purest, most heroic and uncorruptible heroes in the DCU might be a bit of a stretch, considering all the terrible things he did.


** Doubles as a historical in-joke: the bronze-age greeks had two gods of war (or arguably more, but two primary ones) in their mythology: Athena and Ares, and they had a running in-mythology feud over who was better at it, with Athena sponsoring Athens and Ares sponsoring mostly Sparta while they flung continual insults at each other. Since the literature of Athens largely survived into the modern age and that of Sparta didn't attain the same significance, in a lot of the surviving mythology Athena is the calm, skilled strategist that wins by guile and true bravery in noble defense of her chosen people while Ares gets to play the dumb brute who just loves murdering things and doesn't do that particularly well.

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** Doubles as a historical in-joke: the bronze-age greeks had two gods of war (or arguably more, but two primary ones) in their mythology: Athena and Ares, and they had a running in-mythology feud over who was better at it, with Athena sponsoring Athens and Ares sponsoring mostly Sparta while they flung continual insults at each other. Since the literature of Athens largely survived into the modern age and that of Sparta didn't attain the same significance, in a lot of the surviving mythology Athena is the calm, skilled strategist that wins by guile and true bravery in noble defense of her chosen people while Ares gets to play the dumb brute who just loves murdering things and things, doesn't do that particularly well.well, and [[DirtyCoward runs away when things go badly]].

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** During ComicBook/TheCloneSaga, the writers tried to make [[BigBad The Jackal]] out to be so [[ManipulativeBastard great at manipulating people]] that, during "Smoke & Mirrors," Peter and Ben say that refusing to trust him would be to call into question everything they've ever known. Here's the problem: [[ObviouslyEvil at no point does the Jackal ever come across as remotely trustworthy.]] Throughout "Smoke & Mirrors", the Jackal does little more than spout off BlatantLies that are InstantlyProvenWrong, and he says everything in such a smarmy, jokey manner that it's hard to take seriously anything he says. This makes it more than a little baffling that Peter and Ben would keep trusting him on his word.

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* In ''ComicBook/SecretEmpire'', the invading Chitauri force is repeatedly noted to be greater in power than the ComicBook/{{Annihilation}} Wave. This is a baffling claim, as at all points onscreen, the Chitauri seem to be just small waves of {{Mooks}} that are easily dealt with. Compare that to the Annihilation Wave, which decimated whole galaxies, reduced the Nova Corps to a single man within hours of starting its invasion, [[DidYouJustPunchOutCthulhu pummeled Heralds of Galactus to the brink of death]], and posed an existential threat to the ''[[OmnicidalManiac universe]]'', and it just looks even more absurd.


** Subverted in ''ComicBook/YoungJustice'' where Tim/Robin displays amazing leadership almost all the time. This, of course, sadly means his character ''regressed'' as he aged and joined the Titans.
* Megatron from ''ComicBook/TheTransformersAllHailMegatron'' claims to be an amazing tactical genius, but his abilities do not even come close to living up to the hype. It's noticed by the other Decepticons, too: when Starscream once again rebels, he's able to convince a lot of the other Decepticons to join him in fighting Megatron because of it, where as before he'd only ever been able to talk one or two warriors into joining him. This even got [[LampshadeHanging lampshaded]] in ''ComicBook/TheTransformersMoreThanMeetsTheEye'' by a former Decepticon who's become a successful standup comedian: one of his most popular routines is about how little sense Megatron's big Six Phase Strategy made. A later speech by Starscream seemed to be a big LampshadeHanging on the idea, characterizing Megatron as a charismatic nobody who ended up in the right place at the right time, and his ridiculous hype is basically him trying to cover that up.

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** Subverted Averted in ''ComicBook/YoungJustice'' where Tim/Robin displays amazing leadership almost all the time. This, of course, sadly means his character ''regressed'' as he aged and joined the Titans.
* Megatron from ''ComicBook/TheTransformersAllHailMegatron'' claims to be an amazing tactical genius, but his abilities do not even come close to living up to the hype. It's noticed by the other Decepticons, too: when Starscream once again rebels, he's able to convince a lot of the other Decepticons to join him in fighting Megatron because of it, where as whereas before he'd only ever been able to talk one or two warriors into joining him. This even got [[LampshadeHanging lampshaded]] in ''ComicBook/TheTransformersMoreThanMeetsTheEye'' by a former Decepticon who's become a successful standup comedian: one of his most popular routines is about how little sense Megatron's big Six Phase Strategy made. A later speech by Starscream seemed to be a big LampshadeHanging on the idea, characterizing Megatron as a charismatic nobody who ended up in the right place at the right time, and his ridiculous hype is basically him trying to cover that up.

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** Also of ''Teen Titans'', Terry Long was supposed to be a guy so charming and good-natured, that despite [[UglyGuyHotWife his homely looks]] and [[MayDecemberRomance middle age]], Donna Troy was envied for marrying him. He's been topping "creepiest comic character" lists ever since, as instead, he just came across as a bit of a lech; openly hitting on his girlfriend's friends, offering up cringingly bad pickup lines and [[TotallyRadical dated references]], and occasionally just being a flat-out JerkAss.


** Also of ''Teen Titans'', Terry Long was supposed to be a guy so charming and good-natured, that despite [[UglyGuyHotWife his homely looks]] and [[MayDecemberRomance middle age]], Donna Troy was envied for marrying him. To most readers, though, he just came across as a bit of a lech; openly hitting on his girlfriend's friends, offering up cringingly bad pickup lines and [[TotallyRadical dated references]], and occasionally just being a flat-out JerkAss.

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** Also of ''Teen Titans'', Terry Long was supposed to be a guy so charming and good-natured, that despite [[UglyGuyHotWife his homely looks]] and [[MayDecemberRomance middle age]], Donna Troy was envied for marrying him. To most readers, though, he just came across as a bit of a lech; openly hitting on his girlfriend's friends, offering up cringingly bad pickup lines and [[TotallyRadical dated references]], and occasionally just being a flat-out JerkAss.


** It's often stated that TheJoker's greatest advantage is his insanity, which makes him [[ConfusionFu utterly unpredictable]] to the point where it's impossible to guess what he'll do next, [[IndyPloy even for him.]] In practice, though, he seems to have no problem with preparing complex plans, and 90% of the time, his goals are something along the lines of "steal something," "kill a dude," or if he's feeling really creative, "try to drive Batman nuts," which is hardly unpredictable for a psychotic criminal. He also seems to be fully aware of his own actions, which casts doubt on the idea of him being insane at all.

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** It's often stated that TheJoker's ComicBook/TheJoker's greatest advantage is his insanity, which makes him [[ConfusionFu utterly unpredictable]] to the point where it's impossible to guess what he'll do next, [[IndyPloy even for him.]] In practice, though, he seems to have no problem with preparing complex plans, and 90% of the time, his goals are something along the lines of "steal something," "kill a dude," or if he's feeling really creative, "try to drive Batman nuts," which is hardly unpredictable for a psychotic criminal. He also seems to be fully aware of his own actions, which casts doubt on the idea of him being insane at all.

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* ComicBook/IronMan's "buster" armors are almost always hyped up as being designed and able to defeat a specific powerful threat - the Hulkbuster can defeat Hulk, the Phoenixbuster can defeat Phoenix, the Thorbuster can defeat Thor, etc. Unfortunately for Tony, pretty much every time a Buster armor goes up against a person it was made to fight, it fails, and often pretty easily - at best, it manages to get in a sucker punch and hold out for a brief period before he runs for it. The only time a "buster" defeated the opponent it was made to fight was in the film ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron''. It seems Tony has a very inflated opinion of his armor's abilities.

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** Hal Jordan is usually described as "[[TheAce the greatest Green Lantern of all]]." Most of the time, though, he seems pretty average, and not much stronger (if at all) than the other human Lanterns, and quite a few Lanterns have accomplished things he's never even come close to. He also has some fairly consistent weak spots (most obviously, not-great creativity or intellect, when he has an ImaginationBasedSuperpower) that would probably hamper his ranking. It's even funnier if you go by his performances in the Silver Age, where he was almost [[MemeticLoser notorious]] for getting knocked out on a routine basis.

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