History Headscratchers / WonderWoman2017

* His plan was to break her by first showing her how terrible humans can be with their destructive weapons, then showing her that she herself is a destructive weapon. A deception being exposed won't make much difference to a spirit that's been betrayed and cast down. It nearly worked if it wasn't for her remembering Steve valuing her as an ally and lover.

* Why does Ares reveal to Diana that she's actually the Godkiller? If his plan was to either kill her or away her to his side, wouldn't it be better if she was left in the dark about it? That way, she'd be under the impression that all hope of defeating him was lost once the sword was destroyed.

** As the God of War, Ares was likely one of the only Gods who actually knew how to fight which would give him a huge advantage. Ares also shows incredible destructive powers during the climax; and he's supposed to be weakened at this point. Diana, [[spoiler: despite being half-god herself]], struggles against him. Without her training she would not have survived. The other gods, despite their immense power, would not have had nearly as much combat training or experience which would allow Ares to win.

** On the other hand, given that [[spoiler: Ares is shown to be influencing Maru and Ludendorff and that he wants the armistice to occur]], it makes sense that he wouldn't want one side or the other to have too much of an advantage.

** For that matter, though, what did Maru mean by helping him 'regain' his strength? With TheReveal that [[spoiler:he's not Ares]], it doesn't make much sense.

* What's the true purpose of the Godkiller sword? [[spoiler: Obviously, Diana was the Godkiller all along and the sword was a decoy. I get that part. I also get that Hippolyta didn't want Diana knowing she was the Godkiller, but what's the point of going to all that trouble forging a sword and putting it up in a heavily guarded tower? Why not just keep the entire idea of a Godkiller a secret? The fact that Diana was aware of it at all makes her leave the island to fight Ares, which was exactly the sort of thing Hippolyta wanted to avoid. What's worse, she sees Diana take the sword off the island to fight him. You'd think at that point, Hippolyta would tell her the sword was fake just so she wouldn't get herself killed waving a dud at the God of War.]]
** It's likely that while the Godkiller sword [[spoiler: can't kill gods, it is still a powerful sword. Considering that the Amazons have multiple magical weapons (the lasso, the shield, etc.) Hippolyta likely decided to rename the sword Godkiller in order to hide the truth from Diana. It's still worthy of protection just like the lasso is. As for the fighting bit, Diana and Ares's fights hint that gods can imbue objects with power. Hippolyta was probably betting that Diana would do the same without realizing it.]]
** [[spoiler: The sword doesn't seem that powerful. It was blasted to shards when she tried to use it on Ares and it didn't seem any more or less sharp than all the other swords of the Amazons when it was used in battle. If there was some sentimental value to it, you'd think the Queen of the Amazons would respect that as opposed to attributing the Godkiller lore to it. And again, if Hippolyta wanted to hide Diana's nature from her, it would be best not to say anything at all about a Godkiller, whether it be a sword, a person, or what have you.]]
** Hippolyta didn't tell Diana about the Godkiller, Antiope did. The narration switches voices back and forth as the two tell Diana different parts of the story. [[spoiler: Antiope didn't specifically call the god killer a sword either, merely calling it a weapon left to the Amazons by Zeus. When Diana brings it up to Hippolyta at first you can see she's afraid Diana knows the truth, until Diana asks to see 'it', at which point Hippolyta probably did some quick thinking and decided to tell her that the sword they had in the vault was the Godkiller.]]

* When Ares is explaining his motives, he initially says that his defeat at Zeus' hands left him too weak to carry out his original mission of destroying humanity. [[spoiler: He's clearly regained that strength at the end of the film, as shown in his final confrontation with Diana (and his statement that only a god can kill a god). So what's stopping him from just annihilating mankind personally before Diana even made it off the island? Why bother duping human minions, or seeking Diana's help for a purge he's more than capable of administering single-handedly?]]
** [[spoiler:Ares doesn't just want the human race to be destroyed. He wants the humans to destroy themselves to prove they don't deserve to live.]]
** Also, [[spoiler:Ares is very well aware of the existence of the Godkiller and the Amazons. Since he has no idea who the Godkiller is, it makes sense that he not draw attention to himself. It's only until he finally meets Diana that he believes she's not a threat to him.]]

* Tying this into the climax battle of ''Film/BatmanVSupermanDawnOfJustice'', [[spoiler:Where did the sword Diana uses in the fight against Doomsday comes from, since the 'God-killer' sword that she used in this movie is destroyed by Ares in the climax? The two swords also look very much identical to each other.]]

* How did Diana get her hands on the photograph taken of her with Steve and his crew after [[spoiler: the entire village gets killed by gas the night after? The photographer is never seen handing the finished print to Diana or anyone else who could have passed it on to her.]]
** She didn't. Bruce Wayne did, as shown in the beginning of the movie. He goes to great lengths to find the original photograph and arranged for it to be sent to Diana. Given the influence of Wayne Enterprise, it's not too far-fetched that Bruce has his ways so he can recover the photograph. [[spoiler: Since the village wasn't directly destroyed, only its villagers are killed by the gas, so the photograph's still there.]]

** Presumably that's exactly how the original negative and any prints from it came to Lex's attention circa ''Film/BatmanVSupermanDawnOfJustice'' -- a photograph of an unidentified mystery woman and several unidentified men taken shortly before [[spoiler:a mystery chemical weapons attack]] would come to ''somebody's'' attention if they were trying to dig up info on the last time Diana was active as Wonder Woman. [[spoiler:Either the photographer left town and escaped the gas attack, or the photograph was recovered from the photographer's personal effects and later developed.]]

** That doesn't stop Antiope [[HeroicSacrifice taking a bullet for Diana]] [[spoiler:despite knowing that she's a god]]. Though this is reasonably chalked up to an immediate reaction out of her deep love for her niece.
** Also the fact that Diana had been quite sheltered back then, and likely no other amazon ever actually ''tried'' to seriously kill/hurt her, and [[spoiler: while partially a goddess, she is also daughter of Hippolyta who, herself, is ''not'' immune to bullets and such, as shown by Antiope.]] Basically, the amazons could only assume the limits of her resistance/invulnerability, and Antiope didn't want to/couldn't risk being wrong on that one.

* By the end of ''Wonder Woman'', Diana comes to an epiphany after [[spoiler:seeing Steve's sacrifice and listening to Ares]] that humanity is worth keeping around at the very least, that with all the hate they have, their love conquers all. She even [[spoiler:ends World War I herself with the people around her possibly freed by Ares's influence.]] Why between this film and ''Batman V Superman'' does she decide to stop being a hero, having believed the age of heroes to be over? Everything she just experienced in ''Wonder Woman'' should be reasons to keep being a hero.
** Especially egregious is that she says in ''Batman V Superman'' that the impetus from her walking away was the belief that mankind couldn't stand together -- but she saw plenty of examples of standing together: The Chief is friends with Steve and fights beside him even though he acknowledges the horrible past between their ancestors, Sameer also fights for good even though racism destroyed his dreams, the young German soldiers were relieved and even hugged The Chief after the fighting was over, and the majority of both sides were willing to find middle ground. [[spoiler:And Steve gave a HeroicSacrifice for the good of millions of people and his friends were willing to do the same.]] Plus her despair at seeing man continue to fight [[spoiler:even after she supposedly killed Ares loses ground somewhat when it's revealed she never actually killed Ares and things do look up after she kills the real one, and instead of the war ending with her upset or disappointed in humanity she still sees the good in humankind (she says as much to Ares) despite their flaws.]] That she would eventually walk away because, well, HumansAreBastards is absolutely plausible yet her dialogue [=BVS=] states it was the first World War that made her turn her back. World War II was a more likely culprit.
** I have a theory that I already put in the Fridge page: presumably Diana hits her DespairEventHorizon ''again'' when World War II broke out and is even more chaotic and destructive than the first one, because it [[spoiler: means everything she and her friends did, including Steve's sacrifice, was AllForNothing. It also proves Ares's words right that humans will almost always end up fighting each other, even without his influence.]] Not to mention the other smaller wars and conflicts after WWII that just won't seem to end even into the present day. No wonder why Diana loses hope in humanity for a long time until she comes across Batman and Superman. Also, [[spoiler: reminiscing the good times that she had with Steve and reminding herself that humans are also capable of being good and loving plays a factor in convincing her to come back as well.]]

** Also, the armistice. She knew it was [[spoiler: at least partially arranged by Ares]], and it's where most of the problems for World War II actually came from. Fascism in Italy benefitted greatly from the ''vittoria mutilata'' ("maimed victory"), as it was known, and the heavy conditions imposed on Germany brought on the dissatisfaction that allowed the nazis' rise to power. Diana believed that killing Ares wouldn't have just ended the war, but make humans pure again, seeing how even peace ended up being empty and with darkest sides might have been what made her turn her back, convincing her it all was meaningless, and World War II merely confirmed it.

* During the gala, did it not cross anybody's mind that [[spoiler:the entire German high command failed to show up except Ludendorff? Okay, Ludendorff probably killed everyone at the base where the German High Command was in so there's no one to inform the Kaiser of his treachery, but isn't there anybody who suspect that Ludendorff may be behind their sudden disappearances, especially when it's implied that everyone knows he and the rest of the generals don't get along?]]

** [[spoiler: He somehow infiltrated and eliminated the whole German High Command, no one would have felt safe. Also, perhaps some of them weren't brave enough to support him, but secretly wanted him to be right. That way, they could join his side should he have started getting actual victories, and blame him as a rogue element had he failed.]]

* Near the beginning of the film, Hippolyta cryptically says that "The more she knows, the sooner he'll find her." [[spoiler:But she meets Ares pretty much the minute she sets foot in London anyways, and only he is aware of the other's true identity, which he says as much to Diana later when saying he could have killed her the first time they met.]] So what did Hippolyta mean by this? Even after we find out that [[spoiler:Diana herself is the God Killer]] I cannot figure out how the knowledge would have led Ares to her any sooner considering she just stumbled upon him anyway.
** [[spoiler:If she knew she was the 'Killa, she would have been even more aggressive and bold. And remember, Hippolyta doesn't actually know what's out there. She's guessing.]]

* The reason for [[spoiler: Steve Trevor's heroic sacrifice]] was that they couldn't let the plane be launched and if they simply grounded it, the timer would simply release the gas there and kill everyone in the area. But why couldn't they just disable the timer[=/=]gas release mechanism and pitch the gas canisters into the fire?

* I've seen this movie three times already and seeing Ares use [[spoiler: Zeus's lightning]] irritates me more than a little bit since I can't remember Ares ever being able to do that. ESPECIALLY considering that his initial power set is more than capable of dropping Diana.
** It makes a bit of sense since they explicitly point out that Ares is [[spoiler:Zeus' son.]]
** I took it as being something Ares stole/took over from [[spoiler:Zeus after Zeus' death]]. Trying to use it on Diana was ultimately a mistake, though, as [[spoiler:she is Zeus' legitimate, declared heir, and what was once his lightning now serves her]]. I think this is visually indicated by [[spoiler:the way it plays over her bracers, which she is NEVER seen without and which, in the comics, represent Zeus' Aegis, the defensive portion of his personal armory]].

* Since Sir Patrick is [[spoiler: actually Ares, why would he fund a plot by Wonder Woman and the others to undermine his own plan to keep the war going? Furthermore, he didn't seem to be actually making any effort to sabotage the armistice negotiations, even though he has every chance and reason to do so.]]
** See the FridgeBrilliance section. But in summary, [[spoiler:Ares funded the expedition because he wanted Diana to see the horrors of WWI with her very own eyes, thus planting the seeds of doubt in the inherent goodness of men and hopefully convincing her to join him. Note how the moment they captured Veld and decided to infiltrate the gala, thereby actually becoming a threat to Ludendorff's plan, Ares immediately ordered Trevor to call off the mission. As for the armistice, he was actually trying to push it because he knew the armistice was only going to be a temporary measure and war would inevitably break out again, either by a crazed zealot like Ludendorff who despises the idea of peace or someone else years down the line where discontent over the wildly unfair terms of the treaty would provide the building blocks for the next World War. Either way, Ares gets what he wants, in humans destroying each other in endless wars.]]

* Because she is a [[spoiler: demigod?]]

** A troper above estimates one to two hours to London, so, radio any airfield between there and London. Even in London itself, because when the gas blows up, it is harmless. (Apart from the shrapnel, obviously) There is not just the one airfield. There is not just one set of guns. There is not just Steve and Co. A single bullet (not even an incendiary round or anything) blows up all the gas. One bullet. One tank of gas. One hole. Everything. Spectacularly. Boom. And Steve is not doubtful about it. He does not hesitate as if he might just release the gas and kill everyone on the ground. When he fires the bullet he is very certain he has done the job. There was no guarantee that Steve was going to make it on to the plane and punch his way into control and blow everything up anyway, so they should have probably gotten on the radio and told people just as backup.

* (Please help me, Tropers. These next couple are from me. I wanted to like Wonder Woman so much. I feel like it punched me in the ovaries. What happened?) When Diana crosses no man's land, it is so beautiful and so cinematic and so... inexplicable. Why do the Germans keep shooting at her, and only her? It is clear that the bullets are not landing. There is a thing in WWI that you cannot kill with bullets, it is called a tank. You do not shoot at it. Certainly not to the exclusion of all else. Now, barbed wire and anti-tank weapons aren't going to slow Diana down either (although the barbed wire seems to be missing?), but she is also not firing a ranged weapon like a tank. She, at first, is kinda just walking around. And then, to either side of her, here come some ordinary people that bullets DO work on, at least we have no evidence that they do not, and nobody shoots at them. They are not standing behind her, they are flanking her. Meanwhile, she walks into the trench and she takes out ONE gun and more people, more TARGETS, come pouring into no man's land, and they do not get shot, either. And, the way trenches work, there is not just one trench. There is another trench behind the first trench. With more guns. The Germans do not shoot at anyone except the very small target that cannot be shot. I-I don't understand. Diana should be alive and everyone who did not employ even rudimentary tactics in following her should be dead.

* Same Troper as above. If we accept any of the other proposed reasons up there for the German soldiers stopping fighting, and if we accept the HumansAreTheRealMonsters message and what Ares says when's wrapped up in the Lasso of Truth (and the movie does not seem to suggest that he's stronger than the Lasso of Truth) then what did Wonder Woman accomplish over the course of her movie? Diana saves Steve. Yes. Great. I approve of this. Diana and the Amazons kill a bunch of Germans. Okay. Good. Diana defies her mother AND a bunch of British generals and sexism and goes off to the front and saves and an entire village. (Implausibly, I think, see above, but let's leave that aside) Also really great! Then the entire village is gassed. Okay. Necessary for a message about the scale of war and the toll of war and all that, I guess. Then, at the party, she prepares to kick some serious ass and she rocks a sword in a dress but she is not subtle and she endangers the whole "save lots of people from the gas" thing Steve is trying to pull off by hollering about Ares who may or may not be real or who she thinks he is. Then she REALLY endangers the whole "save lots of people from the gas" thing by throwing in the towel and BSODing after killing the guy who is obviously not Ares fails to put a dent in the war. Then she snaps out of that and kills the real Ares while Steve takes care of the gas, but... What does killing Ares DO? If it DOESN'T end the war, if all he was doing was giving people ideas and letting them destroy themselves... We didn't need him to do that. In a historical context, it is very obvious, we did not require Ares to do that. We destroyed ourselves very nicely in the following war, within a generation, without him whispering in our ear. Ares did not like us and he wanted us to die. If all he did was that and ideas, and we were capable of the ideas (if not necessarily exactly the SAME ideas) on our own, then Diana just killed a mean old man who had no power over humanity at all. He played politics. He didn't bring out the force lightning until she showed up. And he only used it on HER. He wasn't even sadistically frying individual people.\\

[[People not getting what they deserve]]

[[folder: Can Diana not go back?]]
* When the queen said, "If you leave you may never return." Did she mean "I fear you won't make it back alive," or did she mean, "You're not allowed to come back." It's never mentioned, and she never does go back. Is she exiled now because she left? Why?

*** I didn't mean to imply it was going to kill her, just that having to go up to the castle naked and explaining that some crazy lady stole your clothes can't be pleasant experience. Also you gotta figure Diana had to do something to ensure the woman wouldn't be able to reach the castle while was in it.

** They never actually say anyone who leaves isn't ''allowed'' to return, just that it would be difficult to find their way back, especially for Diana who's never learnt to sail. Its entirely possible that Amazons have in fact left multiple times in the past, which could aid in their language learning pursuits, assuming that the above 'magically speak everything' thing isn't the solution. They seem to have a strong interest in knowledge, so its possible that they do have parties venture out to acquire knowledge and return back with what they learn.

[[folder:Travelling from Themyscira]]

** Plus trans women exist. This comic panel/page [[http://78.media.tumblr.com/bcf19577126d376bdf9d5a6a324b3734/tumblr_inline_n5ydm8uVvM1rpt04p.jpg]] demonstrates how that's a thing on Themyscira (not necessarily relevant to the movie, but the question is answered in the comics at least).

** Plus trans women exist. This comic panel/page [[http://78.media.tumblr.com/bcf19577126d376bdf9d5a6a324b3734/tumblr_inline_n5ydm8uVvM1rpt04p.jpg]] demonstrates how that's a thing (not necessarily relevant to the movie, but the question is answered in the comics at least

* It's implied in the movie that, just like in the comics, the Amazons have no way of procreating by themselves, as no children are seen on Themyscira, and Diana is utterly delighted to see a baby in London. But the movie Amazons are shown to be of different physical ages, unlike in the comics, where they are immortal and don't grow older. Are we to presume that these Amazons do age, only very slowly? If that's the case, won't they eventually face extinction? Another alternative is that Zeus created them to be of different ages to begin with, even though they're still immortal... But what purpose would that serve?