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** As per at least the second edition the Uktena have recognised this issue and have begun adopting other cultures into the tribe so while they're still culturally very Native American they have members from all over the place (mostly from cultures that have been victims of European colonisation because the Uktena are kinda trying to make a point). The Wendigo are a dying tribe due to losing their Kinfolk and everyone knows it but unlike the Uktena they refuse to compromise even in the face of extinction. Same for the Red Talons. So you're not wrong but that's kinda the point; the Garou tribes are often screwing up as cultures. Not sure why you brought up the Gt though; sure they're not very racially diverse but it's not like Northern Europeans and their American descendants are rare and the whole "must be strong enough" thing generally acts more as encouragement than exclusion to those brought up among the Get Kin. They ''are'' werewolves, being violent and powerful comes naturally, trying to be otherwise is the hard part (just ask the Children of Gaia).

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** As per at least the second edition the Uktena have recognised this issue and have begun adopting other cultures into the tribe so while they're still culturally very Native American they have members from all over the place (mostly from cultures that have been victims of European colonisation because the Uktena are kinda trying to make a point). The Wendigo are a dying tribe due to losing their Kinfolk and everyone knows it but unlike the Uktena they refuse to compromise even in the face of extinction. Same for the Red Talons. So you're not wrong but that's kinda the point; the Garou tribes are often screwing up as cultures. Not sure why you brought up the Gt Get though; sure they're not very racially diverse but it's not like Northern Europeans and their American descendants are rare and the whole "must be strong enough" thing generally acts more as encouragement than exclusion to those brought up among the Get Kin. They ''are'' werewolves, being violent and powerful comes naturally, trying to be otherwise is the hard part (just ask the Children of Gaia).
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** As per at least the second edition the Uktena have recognised this issue and have begun adopting other cultures into the tribe so while they're still culturally very Native American they have members from all over the place (mostly from cultures that have been victims of European colonisation because the Uktena are kinda trying to make a point). The Wendigo are a dying tribe due to losing their Kinfolk and everyone knows it but unlike the Uktena they refuse to compromise even in the face of extinction. Same for the Red Talons. So you're not wrong but that's kinda the point; the Garou tribes are often screwing up as cultures. Not sure why you brought up the Gt though; sure they're not very racially diverse but it's not like Northern Europeans and their American descendants are rare and the whole "must be strong enough" thing generally acts more as encouragement than exclusion to those brought up among the Get Kin. They ''are'' werewolves, being violent and powerful comes naturally, trying to be otherwise is the hard part (just ask the Children of Gaia).
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*** Depends on the tribe. That would be true of some but not others. The Black Furies, Children of Gaia and Fianna in particular are noted as being deeply fond and protective of their Kin (for philosophical reasons for the Furies and Children, cultural clannish attitudes in the case of the Fianna). The more harsh Get and Wendigo would be more like you describe though.
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*** Well, yeah, you're a singular species. The Garou aren't. Them being part human, part wolf is just natural to them.
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*** Also worth noting s that it's not like Lupus werewolves are like feral children, they get something of a boost from Gaia. A few things are just inherently ''known'' instantly by Garou upon their First Change, like the Garou language and Stepping Sideways. So Lupus essentially upgrade from "really intelligent wolf" to "undereducated Garou" once they Change, the rest is catching up on the education.

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*** Also worth noting s is that it's not like Lupus werewolves are like feral children, they get something of a boost from Gaia. A few things are just inherently ''known'' instantly by Garou upon their First Change, like the Garou language and Stepping Sideways. So Lupus essentially upgrade from "really intelligent wolf" to "undereducated Garou" once they Change, the rest is catching up on the education.
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*** Also worth noting s that it's not like Lupus werewolves are like feral children, they get something of a boost from Gaia. A few things are just inherently ''known'' instantly by Garou upon their First Change, like the Garou language and Stepping Sideways. So Lupus essentially upgrade from "really intelligent wolf" to "undereducated Garou" once they Change, the rest is catching up on the education.
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** The Litany applies: "Respect the Territory of Another." Other tribes Kin would be their "territory" by most Garou's definition. As such while the Furies are no doubt very unhappy about such incidents they can't really do anything about it Certainly not without starting major intertribal wars.

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** The Litany applies: "Respect the Territory of Another." Other tribes Kin would be their "territory" by most Garou's definition. As such while the Furies are no doubt very unhappy about such incidents they can't really do anything about it it. Certainly not without starting major intertribal wars.
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** The Litany applies: "Respect the Territory of Another." Other tribes Kin would be their "territory" by most Garou's definition. As such while the Furies are no doubt very unhappy about such incidents they can't really do anything about it Certainly not without starting major intertribal wars.
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*** That said breeding potential and family history are two different things. A descendant of two Changing Breeds would be Kin to one or the other not both ''but'' that doesn't mean they can't partake of the culture (and possibly mystical traditions) of both.
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** While the rules were always a bit messed up in and of themselves, wolves HAVE been shown to have their own language (which all Garou can understand, and which is what "Garou" is based mostly upon, and to be intelligent in their own basic way. It isn't that they're stupid, it's that they see the world differently than humans do (naturally), and don't understand human things very well. Lupus Garou, as stated above, are of higher intelligence from the get-go, though of course they have to be taught what human things are really all about, how to speak any human language, and how to do technological things from scratch. However, the year or two of mentoring by a Homid aunt or uncle should take care of the training and cultural acclimation aspect. Yes, a lupus CAN learn how to drive a car if he's interested enough, he'll just be learning how later than most humans and Homid Garou might (in tribes or septs that include them), simply because they have more basic catching up to do during that mentoring period - such as learning their ABCs and numbers, as well as Garou culture and history. Inclination is also a big factor as to whether or not a Lupus _wants_ to learn to drive - a Glass Walker or Bone Gnawer Lupus would be more inclined to want to do so than most other Lupus, even non-Talons.

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** While the rules were always a bit messed up in and of themselves, wolves HAVE been shown to have their own language (which all Garou can understand, and which is what "Garou" is based mostly upon, and to be intelligent in their own basic way. It isn't that they're stupid, it's that they see the world differently than humans do (naturally), and don't understand human things very well. Lupus Garou, as stated above, are of higher intelligence from the get-go, though of course they have to be taught what human things are really all about, how to speak any human language, and how to do technological things from scratch. However, the year or two of mentoring by a Homid aunt or uncle should take care of the training and cultural acclimation aspect. Yes, a lupus CAN learn how to drive a car if he's interested enough, he'll just be learning how later than most humans and Homid Garou might (in tribes or septs that include them), simply because they have more basic catching up to do during that mentoring period - such as learning their ABCs [=ABCs=] and numbers, as well as Garou culture and history. Inclination is also a big factor as to whether or not a Lupus _wants_ to learn to drive - a Glass Walker or Bone Gnawer Lupus would be more inclined to want to do so than most other Lupus, even non-Talons.
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* The mythology is that each species of Fera had a specific role to play and redundancies were (unfortunately) rare with the only big exceptions being the wolves and hyenas (because canids were smaller in Africa), the cats (who technically have a role but are so lazy they rarely even bother to fulfill it) and the foxes (who basically tricked their way into becoming a changing breed). Pachyderms wouldn’t be needed because we had were-sloths, boars, and bulls for that sort of thing (whoops the wolves killed them all).

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*** Judging by their write-up it's not so much "sending money" and more "bully into moving to sept and supporting this burden until they grow into proper cannon fodder, oh, and being grateful all the way".



** Since their defining characteristic is being a StrawFeminist, it's entirely in character to ignore the plights of the ones they have no vested interest in (like their Kinfolk) when the offending party cannot be simply bullied into submission (unlike puny humans).




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* Because "culling the herd" is just an excuse?




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* Doylist explanation is that animal species are innumerable, and writers had to choose something they thought would be cooler than the rest. Proper solution would be to make the rules for generic shapeshifters... and they tried it in the Forsaken, but, unfortunately, this was done by Phil "Goatfucker" Brucato.
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[[folder: Werewhatever]]

I was discussing the game with a friend of mine and, at one point, jokingly mentioned the possibility of a breed of Wereelephants/mammoths. Eventually, this lead to the question: what is, exactly, the criterion? I mean, why only certain animals have Ferae/Werebeasts counterparts? Are they based on mythology? Possibly not, I don't remember seeing Weregoats / Satyrs or Werehorses (Centaurs). I'd say carnivorous animals only, but the presence of the extint Apis clan (Werebulls) rules that out. I'm personally fine with the given werebeasts (while I'd prefer for the Wereboars to be still around), but I need a valid point for justifying the fact that only those are races of werebeasts.

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** Assuming that's not a writer's error ("She's high-ranking in an organization, so she must have high Leadership, right?") it could just be that bullying is the best way to control Dancers.
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* Because the Ratkin are batshit insane and the Ajaba are nearly extinct. Neither breed really has the resources for anything on that kind of scale.
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[[folder: Culling the human herd]]

The Ratkin and Ajaba were tasked with keeping the human population in check, which they do through diseases and murdering the weak, respectively. However, the human population numbers in the billions and is growing exponentially, meaning that the Ratkin and Ajaba can't hope to reduce the human population through murder. Why haven't the Ratkin and Ajaba realized this? For that matter, why haven't they tried to reduce the human population through more effective means, such as gifts and rites that cause mass sterility, or social engineering meant to reduce births?

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[[folder:Zhyzhak's "leadership"]]

* Zhyzhak's write-up in ''Apocalypse: Time of Judgment'' gives her a Leadership rating of 5. Other materials indicate that her "leadership" consists of yelling, demanding obedience, and killing people who cross her. How did she get such a high Leadership rating when she clearly knows nothing about effective leadership?

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*** It really isn't. The rules for what happens actually exist in one of the Players Guides. You basically just get the usual X change of being a shifter of one breed or the other, just as though it was a shifter-human pairing. If the mother is a lupus or equivalent, the child will always be her breed if it ends up being a shifter at all. There are no hybrids.
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** The answer is given in their Breed Book. It has nothing to do with whether or not coyotes run in packs. The reason Nuwisha don't is because even they find each other to be unbearably annoying to be around for any length of time. Besides, their entire purpose is to teach lessons to the other breeds, hence the rather powerful mid-rank Gifts that let them hide among the others undetected.
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* Maybe. Who'd notice? Or care?

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* ** Maybe. Who'd notice? Or care?
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[[folder: Mages, Sorcerers, and Wyrm Cultists]]

* ''Werewolf: The Apocalypse'' and ''Mage: The Ascension'' are part of the same Old World of Darkness continuity. Do human Wyrm cultists from the Seventh Generation and Pretanic Order count as sorcerers? They've sworn allegiance to a powerful being in exchange for magical power, their Wyrm gifts are akin to static magic, but they lack the reality-shaping powers and the enlightened awareness of mages.
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* Maybe. Who'd notice? Or care?
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** Also might very well not work, given the destiny twisting happening around Zhyzhak.
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** It's also just a numbers game; the Black Spirals are a few thousand to the human millions and most spirits have a hard time getting out of the Umbra.
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[[folder:No metis with rickets?]]

* The Black Spiral Dancers raise their metis children in underground hives. Metis children generally do not venture out to the surface (and get exposure to sunlight) until after their first change. Shouldn't all those Black Spiral metis children have rickets from being raised in a dark environment?

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** Spirits may be preventing her from getting radiation sickness to keep her at her strongest.




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** [[HonorBeforeReason Because that would be dishonourable.]] Sure the pragmatic route would be the better one but the Garou all throughout history have repeatedly fallen into the trap of taking the honourable action (by their perspective) rather than the pragmatic one.
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** Because ruining the world is easy and fixing it is hard.

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**Also writers operating on old, out of date information/beliefs, one of which was that coyotes are solitary animals, as opposed to wolves (who were once believed to run in ridiculously large packs.)



**As for scary-looking, any Black Spiral that is mentally competent enough to do a normal-looking job amongst normals probably isn't going to look very abnormal, either. Also keep in mind modern sensibilities will probably make most people think twice, and ignore any initial gut feeling they might have had.



** It has to do with the intertwined nature of Weaver and Wyrm. The Weaver is actually the Wyrm's real target, and Gaia is kind of a casualty in this (and of course, it's misinterpreted by the common Garou as the Wyrm attacking Gaia, with the Weaver as an incidental victim/sometimes minor problem. Book of the Weaver was not meant to alter the common knowledge of Garou, as it was written by three scholars that no one pays much attention to for being .. oddballs.) And because the Wyrm is trapped in web's of the Weaver's own devise, it's easier for him to act through/attack the Weaver's most important and cherised agents themselves - humans, the adopted children of the Weaver. To corrupt the Weaver's own minions and use them against Her (as well as Gaia or anyone else who opposes him)is just icing on the revenge-madness cake.

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** It has to do with the intertwined nature of Weaver and Wyrm. The Weaver is actually the Wyrm's real target, and Gaia is kind of a casualty in this (and of course, it's misinterpreted by the common Garou as the Wyrm attacking Gaia, with the Weaver as an incidental victim/sometimes minor problem. Book of the Weaver was not meant to alter the common knowledge of Garou, as it was written by three scholars that no one pays much attention to for being .. oddballs.) And because the Wyrm is trapped in web's webs of the Weaver's own devise, it's easier for him to act through/attack the Weaver's most important and cherised cherished agents themselves - humans, the adopted children of the Weaver. To corrupt the Weaver's own minions and use them against Her (as well as Gaia or anyone else who opposes him)is him) is just icing on the revenge-madness cake.
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[[folder:Just shoot Zhyzhak!]]

* Why does King Albrecht seek to defeat Zhyzhak in hand-to-hand combat, at which she excels? Why not arrange for a Gaia Garou sniper to shoot Zhyzhak from a safe distance with a silver bullet? It would result in far fewer Gaia Garou casualties than traditional combat.

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