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* What really bothers me is how the heroes of TPoT treated Leafpool after they found out she was really their mother. Teenage angsting aside, they really couldn't find it in their heart to forgive her? I didn't like Leafpool that much until TPoT Book 6, where how her own kits treated her made her TheWoobie in my eyes. Because...damn! That poor cat suffered enough as it is, now her own kits gotta give her a hard time over her decision? What the hell, Lionblaze, Hollyleaf, and Jayfeather?! Especially considering Jayfeather is my favorite, I can't believe he'd be like this, too.

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* What really bothers me is how the heroes of TPoT treated Leafpool after they found out she was really their mother. Teenage angsting aside, they really couldn't find it in their heart to forgive her? I didn't like Leafpool that much until TPoT Book 6, where how her own kits treated her made her TheWoobie in my eyes. Because...damn! That poor cat suffered enough as it is, now her own kits gotta give her a hard time over her decision? What the hell, Lionblaze, Hollyleaf, and Jayfeather?! Especially considering Jayfeather is my favorite, I can't believe he'd be like this, too.too.
* Dustpelt. For the majority of the first four books, he hates Fireheart's guts. But that's not what bugs me. All of a sudden, in ''A Dangerous Path'', he's on okay terms with Fireheart. Did he one day just (randomly) decide to stop hating Fireheart or what? It doesn't make sense.
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* What really bothers me is how the heroes of TPoT treated Leafpool after they found out she was really their mother. Teenage angsting aside, they really couldn't find it in their heart to forgive her? I didn't like Leafpool that much until TPoT Book 6, where how her own kits treated her made her TheWoobie in my eyes. Because...damn! That poor cat suffered enough as it is, now her own kits gotta give her a hard time over her decision? What the hell, Lionblaze, Hollyleaf, and Jayfeather?! Especially considering Jayfeather is my favorite, I can't believe he'd be like this, too.
* Dustpelt. He hated Firestar's guts up until ''Rising Storm'', and then, from ''A Dangerous Path'' onwards, he's on relatively normal terms with him? Did he randomly decide to forgive Firestar or something? It doesn't make sense.

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* What really bothers me is how the heroes of TPoT treated Leafpool after they found out she was really their mother. Teenage angsting aside, they really couldn't find it in their heart to forgive her? I didn't like Leafpool that much until TPoT Book 6, where how her own kits treated her made her TheWoobie in my eyes. Because...damn! That poor cat suffered enough as it is, now her own kits gotta give her a hard time over her decision? What the hell, Lionblaze, Hollyleaf, and Jayfeather?! Especially considering Jayfeather is my favorite, I can't believe he'd be like this, too.
* Dustpelt. He hated Firestar's guts up until ''Rising Storm'', and then, from ''A Dangerous Path'' onwards, he's on relatively normal terms with him? Did he randomly decide to forgive Firestar or something? It doesn't make sense.
too.
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* What really bothers me is how the heroes of TPoT treated Leafpool after they found out she was really their mother. Teenage angsting aside, they really couldn't find it in their heart to forgive her? I didn't like Leafpool that much until TPoT Book 6, where how her own kits treated her made her TheWoobie in my eyes. Because...damn! That poor cat suffered enough as it is, now her own kits gotta give her a hard time over her decision? What the hell, Lionblaze, Hollyleaf, and Jayfeather?! Especially considering Jayfeather is my favorite, I can't believe he'd be like this, too.

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* What really bothers me is how the heroes of TPoT treated Leafpool after they found out she was really their mother. Teenage angsting aside, they really couldn't find it in their heart to forgive her? I didn't like Leafpool that much until TPoT Book 6, where how her own kits treated her made her TheWoobie in my eyes. Because...damn! That poor cat suffered enough as it is, now her own kits gotta give her a hard time over her decision? What the hell, Lionblaze, Hollyleaf, and Jayfeather?! Especially considering Jayfeather is my favorite, I can't believe he'd be like this, too.too.
* Dustpelt. He hated Firestar's guts up until ''Rising Storm'', and then, from ''A Dangerous Path'' onwards, he's on relatively normal terms with him? Did he randomly decide to forgive Firestar or something? It doesn't make sense.
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* What really bothers me is how the heroes of TPoT treated Leafpool after they found out she was really their mother. Teenage angsting aside, they really couldn't find it in their heart to forgive her? I didn't like Leafpool that much until TPoT Book 6, where how her own kits treated her made her TheWoobie in my eyes. Because...damn! That poor cat suffered enough as it is, now her own kits gotta give her a hard time over her decision? What the hell, Lionheart, Hollyleaf, and Jayfeather?! Especially considering Jayfeather is my favorite, I can't believe he'd be like this, too.

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* What really bothers me is how the heroes of TPoT treated Leafpool after they found out she was really their mother. Teenage angsting aside, they really couldn't find it in their heart to forgive her? I didn't like Leafpool that much until TPoT Book 6, where how her own kits treated her made her TheWoobie in my eyes. Because...damn! That poor cat suffered enough as it is, now her own kits gotta give her a hard time over her decision? What the hell, Lionheart, Lionblaze, Hollyleaf, and Jayfeather?! Especially considering Jayfeather is my favorite, I can't believe he'd be like this, too.

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he tomcats are unfaithful, and poor leafpool


* Okay, sorry if this pisses you off but...I don't get why Crowfeather and Leafpool were together. The only reason I can see is for them to make babies that will be the next protagonists (That could have easily been Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw's actual kits instead). What {{Word of God}} says is that Crow/Feather was just high school love, and that Crow/Leaf was the real deal, didn't make much sense to me either. I could esily see Crowfeather and Leafpool's relationship like it would be in human culture. Popular girl sees angsty boy in corner, both fall in love for no reason. They can't be together for reasons already complained about on this page, so they run away. They have G-Rated Sex and girl gets pregnant. Girl gives up kids when they're born, and they go to pretending the other didn't exist. Sounds more like teen romance gone horribly wrong to me.

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* Okay, sorry if this pisses you off but...I don't get why Crowfeather and Leafpool were together. The only reason I can see is for them to make babies that will be the next protagonists (That could have easily been Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw's actual kits instead). What {{Word of God}} says is that Crow/Feather was just high school love, and that Crow/Leaf was the real deal, didn't make much sense to me either. I could esily easily see Crowfeather and Leafpool's relationship like it would be in human culture. Popular girl sees angsty boy in corner, both fall in love for no reason. They can't be together for reasons already complained about on this page, so they run away. They have G-Rated Sex and girl gets pregnant. Girl gives up kids when they're born, and they go to pretending the other didn't exist. Sounds more like teen romance gone horribly wrong to me.me.
** That bothered me too, man. Why can't ANY of the toms stay faithful to their first girl for that matter? Graystripe with Mille, Fireheart with Sandstorm, Crowfeather with Leafpool like you said, and even Tigerstar and Sasha! Yo, what the hell?!



* In The Darkest Hour, Leopardstar tells Firestar that she sent a patrol beyond Highstones to look for a new place to live (if BloodClan takes over). What happened to those cats? We never find out. (Although they must not have found the lake.)

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* In The Darkest Hour, Leopardstar tells Firestar that she sent a patrol beyond Highstones to look for a new place to live (if BloodClan takes over). What happened to those cats? We never find out. (Although they must not have found the lake.))
* What really bothers me is how the heroes of TPoT treated Leafpool after they found out she was really their mother. Teenage angsting aside, they really couldn't find it in their heart to forgive her? I didn't like Leafpool that much until TPoT Book 6, where how her own kits treated her made her TheWoobie in my eyes. Because...damn! That poor cat suffered enough as it is, now her own kits gotta give her a hard time over her decision? What the hell, Lionheart, Hollyleaf, and Jayfeather?! Especially considering Jayfeather is my favorite, I can't believe he'd be like this, too.
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*** According to WordOfGod, greencough is most similar to cat flu. So we still have an annoying lack of actual cat diseases here. (Though I do roleplay a BloodClanner with feline hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. Long story.)

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*** According to WordOfGod, greencough is most similar to cat flu. So we still have an annoying lack of actual cat diseases here. (Though I do roleplay a BloodClanner [=BloodClanner=] with feline hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. Long story.)
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*** According to WordOfGod, greencough is most similar to cat flu. So we still have an annoying lack of actual cat diseases here. (Though I do roleplay a BloodClanner with feline hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. Long story.)
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**What bothers me is how the cats mention a few times that going to the Cutter (ie, getting neutered) makes cats fat and lazy. Don't get me wrong, I can certainly see how cats as intelligent as these would object to being neutered, but the idea that spaying/neutering cats makes them fat and lazy is a myth. I mean, I'm sure that sometimes it happens, but I've known enough cats and dogs that have been neutered to know that it's not even all that likely. So why are the cats perpetrating a human myth that they have no reason to know about?
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* In The Darkest Hour, Leopardstar tells Firestar that she sent a patrol beyond Highstones to look for a new place to live (if BloodClan takes over). What happened to those cats

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* In The Darkest Hour, Leopardstar tells Firestar that she sent a patrol beyond Highstones to look for a new place to live (if BloodClan takes over). What happened to those catscats? We never find out. (Although they must not have found the lake.)
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**Well, Firestar and fire are the same color. It's just that for Bluestar and co., the color they both are is green.



** Someone hasn't been paying attention to all those greencough epidemics...

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** Someone hasn't been paying attention to all those greencough epidemics...epidemics...
* In The Darkest Hour, Leopardstar tells Firestar that she sent a patrol beyond Highstones to look for a new place to live (if BloodClan takes over). What happened to those cats
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* How about Diseases? Where is all the kitty leukemia, F.I.V, and worms?

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* How about Diseases? Where is all the kitty leukemia, F.I.V, and worms?worms?
** Someone hasn't been paying attention to all those greencough epidemics...
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** Well, look at us humans. With our technologies and brilliant tools that could possibly feed everyone on this planet are still develpoing weapons and practically "wasting" millions of money that could have gone to feed more mouths.
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**Not mating with cats from other Clans would result in the cats being inbred. But they don't know that. They know squat about genetics. Firestar's clan may ironically become the strongest over time due to all the kittypet blood.

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*** Agreed. Remember the "you don't have to tell who the father is" rule? That little allowance probably single-handedly saved the necks of dozens of queens ''and'' kept the clans from becoming too inbred.

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*** Agreed. Remember the "you don't have to tell who the father is" rule? That little allowance probably single-handedly saved the necks of dozens of queens ''and'' kept the clans from becoming too inbred.queens.



***The structure of a real feral colony is nothing like that of the clans. If genuine feral behavior had anything to do with how they organized their territories, I imagine that borders would be unstable, leaders would have to fight their way to the top, elders and queens would not be looked after, cats would probably live separately...like Bloodclan, basically. The forest clans organize more like tribal ''human'' societies and the characters themselves act human.



* Okay, sorry if this pisses you off but...I don't get why Crowfeather and Leafpool were together. The only reason I can see is for them to make babies that will be the next protagonists (That could have easily been Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw's actual kits instead). What {{Word of God}} says is that Crow/Feather was just high school love, and that Crow/Leaf was the real deal, didn't make much sense to me either. I could esily see Crowfeather and Leafpool's relationship like it would be in human culture. Popular girl sees angsty boy in corner, both fall in love for no reason. They can't be together for reasons already complained about on this page, so they run away. They have G-Rated Sex and girl gets pregnant. Girl gives up kids when they're born, and they go to pretending the other didn't exist. Sounds more like teen romance gone horribly wrong to me.

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* Okay, sorry if this pisses you off but...I don't get why Crowfeather and Leafpool were together. The only reason I can see is for them to make babies that will be the next protagonists (That could have easily been Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw's actual kits instead). What {{Word of God}} says is that Crow/Feather was just high school love, and that Crow/Leaf was the real deal, didn't make much sense to me either. I could esily see Crowfeather and Leafpool's relationship like it would be in human culture. Popular girl sees angsty boy in corner, both fall in love for no reason. They can't be together for reasons already complained about on this page, so they run away. They have G-Rated Sex and girl gets pregnant. Girl gives up kids when they're born, and they go to pretending the other didn't exist. Sounds more like teen romance gone horribly wrong to me.me.
*How about Diseases? Where is all the kitty leukemia, F.I.V, and worms?
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** The first one is later corrected - in ''The Sight'', honey is described as tasteless. The second, on the other hand, is probably just for convenience. Names would be much less varied if they were missing the ability to see some colors.

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** The first one is later corrected - in ''The Sight'', honey is described as tasteless. The second, on the other hand, is probably just for convenience. Names would be much less varied if they were missing the ability to see some colors.colors.
* Okay, sorry if this pisses you off but...I don't get why Crowfeather and Leafpool were together. The only reason I can see is for them to make babies that will be the next protagonists (That could have easily been Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw's actual kits instead). What {{Word of God}} says is that Crow/Feather was just high school love, and that Crow/Leaf was the real deal, didn't make much sense to me either. I could esily see Crowfeather and Leafpool's relationship like it would be in human culture. Popular girl sees angsty boy in corner, both fall in love for no reason. They can't be together for reasons already complained about on this page, so they run away. They have G-Rated Sex and girl gets pregnant. Girl gives up kids when they're born, and they go to pretending the other didn't exist. Sounds more like teen romance gone horribly wrong to me.
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** I think this is meant to be DeliberateValuesDissonance. Cats are, as mentioned, extremely territorial. Feral cats are known to form small family groups in real life, which is reflected in the Clans, but they see other cats as, first and foremost, competition. Humans don't share the same instinctive territory thing, so while it makes sense to ''us'' to form a big, unified group, it doesn't so much to the cats because that clashes with their basic instincts. How well the authors pulled this off is, obviously, up for debate, but that's my take on it.


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** Interaction with kittypets. [=ThunderClan's=] old territory directly bordered a suburb, so it stands to reason they'd have some contact with them (stuck-up Clan attitudes toward kittypets notwithstanding). That, and Firestar was born a kittypet, and by Omen of the Stars he has lived with the Clan for quite a while. They'd probably heard of it from him.

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* The family tree's posted on the web have been said by the authors to be completly wrong.

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* ** The family tree's posted on the web have been said by the authors to be completly wrong.wrong.
** Vicky said she didn't realize it until it was too late. So, don't [[MST3KMantra focus on it much.]]
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** The first one is later corrected - in ''The Sight'', honey is described as tasteless. The second, on the other hand, is probably just for convenience. Names would be much less varied if they were missing the ability to see some colors.
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* Monogamy?!?!?!!

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***Agreed. Remember the "you don't have to tell who the father is" rule? That little allowance probably single-handedly saved the necks of dozens of queens ''and'' kept the clans from becoming too inbred.



* Biggest WallBanger for this Troper: real cats have a gene that keeps them from tasting sweetness. But Clan cats think berries and honeycomb are "treats" (and Crowfeather can pick up on the scent of wildflowers XD). And apparently, the Clan cats can also see in vivd, glorious HD color, instead of confusing red/green/orange like cats usually do (or not caring about color at all, like cats usually do)...Although it would have been hilarious if Firestar was actually some other color and cats just assumed he was red because Bluestar said he was.

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* Biggest WallBanger for this Troper: real cats have a gene that keeps them from tasting sweetness. But Clan cats think berries and honeycomb are "treats" (and Crowfeather can pick up on the scent of wildflowers XD). And apparently, the Clan cats can also see in vivd, glorious HD color, instead of confusing red/green/orange like cats usually do (or not caring about color at all, like cats usually do)...Although it would have been hilarious if Firestar was actually some other color and cats just assumed he was red because Bluestar said he was.
* Monogamy?!?!?!!
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* How did Bluestar know so much about vets? I know they phrase it like they only know a little, but the phrase [[GroinAttack "Still a tom"]] makes it seem like she knows everything about it. Where would she get this knowledge? Pinestar? If he knew that then why did he risk it happening to him? It also seems like the entire clan has heard of the Cutter by Omen Of The Stars.

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* How did Bluestar know so much about vets? I know they phrase it like they only know a little, but the phrase [[GroinAttack "Still a tom"]] makes it seem like she knows everything about it. Where would she get this knowledge? Pinestar? If he knew that then why did he risk it happening to him? It also seems like the entire clan has heard of the Cutter by Omen Of The Stars.Stars.
*Biggest WallBanger for this Troper: real cats have a gene that keeps them from tasting sweetness. But Clan cats think berries and honeycomb are "treats" (and Crowfeather can pick up on the scent of wildflowers XD). And apparently, the Clan cats can also see in vivd, glorious HD color, instead of confusing red/green/orange like cats usually do (or not caring about color at all, like cats usually do)...Although it would have been hilarious if Firestar was actually some other color and cats just assumed he was red because Bluestar said he was.

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** Cats who don't pay attention to Starclan's rules get struck by lightning or crushed by trees. Also, the cats who follow Starclan tend to win more battles against those who don't.

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** Cats who don't pay attention to Starclan's rules get struck by lightning or crushed by trees. Also, the cats who follow Starclan tend to win more battles against those who don't. don't.
*** Not ''really''. Whether or not the lightning strike was [=StarClan=]'s doing or just a coincidence is supposed to be ambiguous, and I have no idea where you're getting the battles thing from. As for why the cats put so much faith in [=StarClan=]: it's they're religion. Like most religious people, they believe very strongly in the rules of their religon. Of course, rigidly following the rules all the time doesn't hold the answers, which is kind of what the authors are getting at. [=StarClan=] is also portrayed as having limited power over the living world to show that, although there is nothing wrong with faith, relying on it to solve your problems gets you nowhere; ie. God doesn't make miracles happen on a daily basis.
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** The reason there was no mention of [=SkyClan=] during the Clans' formation is because that short story was written before ''Firestar's Quest''. Skystar and the rest of [=SkyClan=] have been {{RetCon}}ned into that scene by WordOfGod.

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** The reason there was no mention of [=SkyClan=] during the Clans' formation is because that short story was written before ''Firestar's Quest''. Skystar and the rest of [=SkyClan=] have been {{RetCon}}ned into that scene by WordOfGod.WordOfGod.
* How did Bluestar know so much about vets? I know they phrase it like they only know a little, but the phrase [[GroinAttack "Still a tom"]] makes it seem like she knows everything about it. Where would she get this knowledge? Pinestar? If he knew that then why did he risk it happening to him? It also seems like the entire clan has heard of the Cutter by Omen Of The Stars.
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** The starving the elders thing was VERY much looked down upon when it happened, and killing isn't usually done by the good cats (though Firestar kills at least two characters, one of them was in the second book and the first two books are very questionable to me). Trespassing will probably get you attacked (unless you keep that stupid two fox-lengths rule...god) and the medicine cat thing seems to mostly have been Leafpool (and Hollyleaf) overreacting. A ''lot''.
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** Starclan needs entertainment in the afterlife. Cooperation isn't exciting.

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* Why do the cats care so much about Starclan and put so much stock by their words? Starclan lies consistently, but insists that the rules have to be upheld because they say so. There must be four clans, but not really, because there were 5, and they just decided not to tell you. When you're in trouble and you ask for their advice, they either tell you that they're powerless or give you extremely baffling and unhelpful prophecy that inevitably makes reference to blood and tragedy. You can't confront them with the idea that Clan law is directly responsible for a large amount of angst and psychotic unhappiness, and its forbidden to suggest a more peaceful route outside clan law, because that would just unspeakable.

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* Why do the cats care so much about Starclan and put so much stock by their words? Starclan lies consistently, but insists that the rules have to be upheld because they say so. There must be four clans, but not really, because there were 5, and they just decided not to tell you. When you're in trouble and you ask for their advice, they either tell you that they're powerless or give you extremely baffling and unhelpful prophecy that inevitably makes reference to blood and tragedy. You can't confront them with the idea that Clan law is directly responsible for a large amount of angst and psychotic unhappiness, and its forbidden to suggest a more peaceful route outside clan law, because that would just unspeakable.
** Cats who don't pay attention to Starclan's rules get struck by lightning or crushed by trees. Also, the cats who follow Starclan tend to win more battles against those who don't.

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* How does SkyClan fit into the Clans' history? The origin of the clans only mentions the original four clans and their first leaders, no mention of a Skystar or Skyclan. However in Code of the Clans it shows that Skyclan existed from fairly early on and helped create the warrior code. Also, how could modern Clan cats be familiar with the stories of how the Code came to be but not know of Skyclan since they're mentioned fairly often.

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* How does SkyClan [=SkyClan=] fit into the Clans' history? The origin of the clans only mentions the original four clans and their first leaders, no mention of a Skystar or Skyclan. However in Code of the Clans it shows that Skyclan existed from fairly early on and helped create the warrior code. Also, how could modern Clan cats be familiar with the stories of how the Code came to be but not know of Skyclan since they're mentioned fairly often.often.
** The reason there was no mention of [=SkyClan=] during the Clans' formation is because that short story was written before ''Firestar's Quest''. Skystar and the rest of [=SkyClan=] have been {{RetCon}}ned into that scene by WordOfGod.
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* Am I the only one bothered that Graystripe is a product of outright BrotherSisterIncest? (His parents are Willowpelt and Patchpelt. Adderfang and Swiftbreeze are their parents, though they had Willowpelt and Patchpelt in two different litters.) Even if the series has very questionable moments, it's still found in the "for kids" sections...SoYeah

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* Am I the only one bothered that Graystripe is a product of outright BrotherSisterIncest? (His parents are Willowpelt and Patchpelt. Adderfang and Swiftbreeze are their parents, though they had Willowpelt and Patchpelt in two different litters.) Even if the series has very questionable moments, it's still found in the "for kids" sections...SoYeah
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*The family tree's posted on the web have been said by the authors to be completly wrong.

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*The family tree's posted on the web have been said by the authors to be completly wrong.wrong.
* How does SkyClan fit into the Clans' history? The origin of the clans only mentions the original four clans and their first leaders, no mention of a Skystar or Skyclan. However in Code of the Clans it shows that Skyclan existed from fairly early on and helped create the warrior code. Also, how could modern Clan cats be familiar with the stories of how the Code came to be but not know of Skyclan since they're mentioned fairly often.
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* Even though it has many incidents of "WTF, these are for KIDS?!?!" Am I the only one bothered that Graystripe's parents are brother and sister? (His parents are Patchpelt and Willowpelt. Their parents are Adderfang and Swiftbreeze)

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* Even though it has many incidents of "WTF, these are for KIDS?!?!" Am I the only one bothered that Graystripe's parents are brother and sister? Graystripe is a product of outright BrotherSisterIncest? (His parents are Patchpelt Willowpelt and Willowpelt. Their parents are Patchpelt. Adderfang and Swiftbreeze)Swiftbreeze are their parents, though they had Willowpelt and Patchpelt in two different litters.) Even if the series has very questionable moments, it's still found in the "for kids" sections...SoYeah

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