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* The PyrrhicVictory at the end of the remake is a problem. More than one person knew Malus was going to the island to investigate his (possible) daughter's disappearance, ''and one of them is a cop.'' Now the lady cop was in on it, so we have to assume they may kill the other male cop who knew Malus was going to Summer's Isle or else they're gonna have a huge load of authorities on the island investigating every single thing. The proposed "we don't answer to the national authorities" thing could ''easily'' get escalated since there would be two missing people (not counting his daughter) associated with the trip Malus took--he's dead and so is the pilot who dropped him off there--and if they choose to kill the other male cop to cover up the details, that's ''three'' missing people directly associated with Summer's Isle. There is no way they can just let three missing people go, especially since they disappeared at the same time, so not only would they besieged by angry cops looking for cop killers, if anyone informs the press, any business they share with the mainland could now come under fire. They've already been sacrificing people under the claim that it allows them to be prosperous, but if a murder investigation gets to the papers, it could collapse their entire economy and force them to be truly self-reliant, not to mention that cops hold grudges against cop killers, so they could also be subject to harassment and violence from the people who knew Malus or the pilot's family (and the other cop, if they kill him.) Hell, they may get angry enough to storm the island in the dead of night and try to burn it to the ground. Now how was ALL OF THAT worth gaslighting Malus and then trapping him on the island to die and somehow bring the island prosperity? And it makes less sense because the film ends implying it's gonna do that all over again with a new guy, so now there are ''more'' potential missing people related to Summer's Isle. How many more before they either get destroyed by angry loved ones or investigated to the point of losing all ability to sustain itself by the undoubtedly pissed off authorities on the mainland?
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* The misandrist cult culls of all of their male children and only keeps some elderly men around for breeding purposes and to do manual labor. You'd think it'd be a good idea to keep a couple of younger guys around for both, since back muscles and erections wouldn't be nearly as robust in a bunch of enslaved octogenarians, their "workforce" would have to be replaced at some point in the near future, and the kind of docility they'd need from their male slaves would be ''extremely'' difficult to indoctrinate into men they might try to take captive from the mainland.
** As Edward points out, Summerisle's leadership aren't exactly 100% when it comes to their management over the daily goings-on of the island. He also notes, there's no guarantee that sacrificing him in the wicker man will give them a good harvest. And aside from the islanders being generally pretty unsettling and eerie, there's not much indication that they have supernatural powers. So depending on current path of the leadership, this may be indeed another sign of their deteriorating path towards ruin.
** As Edward points out, Summerisle's leadership aren't exactly 100% when it comes to their management over the daily goings-on of the island. He also notes, there's no guarantee that sacrificing him in the wicker man will give them a good harvest. And aside from the islanders being generally pretty unsettling and eerie, there's not much indication that they have supernatural powers. So depending on current path of the leadership, this may be indeed another sign of their deteriorating path towards ruin.
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** In the original, at least there's nothing from before he landed on the island, for all we know no one knew where he was going.
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** In the original, at least least, there's nothing from before he landed on the island, for all we know no one knew where he was going.
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*** In the extended edition, he gets a letter from an anonymous person from Summerisle asking him to come and investigate. He gets the letter from a fellow officer. Even if that wasn't a good enough lead, remember, he's a cop. If a cop is going somewhere on duty, as a matter of process he/she will report on where they're going and why, especially if they're going out of town. Cops are thorough that way. And even if for some reason he didn't do that, he flew there. He would've had to plot his course before leaving, and at some point he would have to be in communication with some form of air traffic control, who would have records of where he was headed. Take your pick, someone had to know where he was going.
*** Since all the villagers were in it together, all they had to do was all memorise a simple story 'Oh Howie, yes he came here. He looked for the girl. We told him was dead, look, he's all the documentation. He went back home" Good luck trying to break down that story.
*** Since all the villagers were in it together, all they had to do was all memorise a simple story 'Oh Howie, yes he came here. He looked for the girl. We told him was dead, look, he's all the documentation. He went back home" Good luck trying to break down that story.
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*** In the original's extended edition, he gets a letter from an anonymous person from Summerisle asking him to come and investigate. He gets the letter from a fellow officer. Even if that wasn't a good enough lead, remember, he's a cop. If a cop is going somewhere on duty, as a matter of process he/she they will report on where they're going and why, especially if they're going out of town. Cops are thorough that way. And even if for some reason he didn't do that, he flew there. He would've had to plot his course before leaving, and at some point he would have to be in communication with some form of air traffic control, who would have records of where he was headed. Take your pick, someone had to know where he was going.
*** Since all the villagers were in it together, all they had to do was all memorise a simple story 'Oh Howie, yes he came here. He looked for the girl. We told him was dead, look, he's all the documentation. He went backhome" home". Good luck trying to break down that story.
*** Since all the villagers were in it together, all they had to do was all memorise a simple story 'Oh Howie, yes he came here. He looked for the girl. We told him was dead, look, he's all the documentation. He went back
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* I think the point of this entire exercise is: the villagers very likely screwed themselves over.
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** It was also engineered as such by the cult to draw him into the mystery they set up for him.
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** The film does seem to characterise her as being full of guilt for her central role in the conspiracy and for betraying Edward in such a fashion.
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* This troper only saw the infamous remake but this probably applies to the original as well: the cultists are aware that they killed ''a police officer'', right? One who was shown ''informing his superior'' where he was going? Good luck hoping for a better harvest, because you ain't getting it, albeit for reasons unrelated to agriculture/apiculture...
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* This troper I only saw the infamous remake but this probably applies to the original as well: the cultists are aware that they killed ''a police officer'', right? One who was shown ''informing his superior'' where he was going? Good luck hoping for a better harvest, because you ain't getting it, albeit for reasons unrelated to agriculture/apiculture...
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** In the original at least there's nothing from before he landed on the island, for all we know no one knew where he was going.
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** In the original original, at least there's nothing from before he landed on the island, for all we know no one knew where he was going.
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* The accident at the beginning of the remake: Was there a point to that ''at all'', other than to give Edward a reason to be mentally off the rest of the movie?
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* The accident at the beginning of the remake: beginning: Was there a point to that ''at all'', other than to give Edward a reason to be mentally off the rest of the movie?
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* Why in God's name would Summerisle try to drown Edward? In the ''expectation'' that Willow could save him and gain his trust, maybe, but the odds were incredibly high that their willingly-attending guest would just freaking drown under the crypt. Somehow out of all the remake's stupidity, this eats at me the worst. And for that matter, what exactly is the "old way" of treating anaphylaxis? I thought at first the doctor ''had'' used an EpiPen, perhaps the other of the two that Edward brought with him, and was glossing it as "old ways"/unspecified magic to trick him or make him feel further trapped, but when she whispers that she's going to do it his way now, when sticking the needle in him after the breathtaking NO NOT THE BEEES THEY'RE IN MY EEEEYES sequence, she seems sincere. What's up there?
** Perhaps they thought they could revive Edward with magic if he drowned?
** Perhaps they thought they could revive Edward with magic if he drowned?
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** ...Are you suggesting Edward would willingly let a little girl be in danger just because of a personal issue he has with her mother? It would be a bit out of character for him to just not try to save her if there was a possibility she was being hurt or worse, even if he didn't care for her mother.
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* Why does Edward even agree to look for his ex-girlfriend's missing daughter in the first place? She's his ex-girlfriend so obviously he doesn't much care for her. He could easily say no and cite conflict of interest since an officer investigating a case where their ex is involved might just half-ass it since there's a bias in place.
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** Beyond that, the women seemed to target men that are in traditionally masculine jobs like police officers or firefighters. They also want men who are drawn towards helping others, especially damsels in distress and lost children.
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** It wasn't so much an answer to an actual question as a chant.
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** You need some form physical evidence to prove a murder. Howie carried the letter and photo to the island with him (who knows what he did with the envelope?). When they took his clothes to anoint him, the letter and photo were probably within those, and were probably burned. Plus, the ashes of the wicker man after it was burned were probably buried, or thrown into the sea. The police just couldn't show up and say, "We know you murdered Howie". You need proof, or a confession - and considering how difficult the islanders were making Howie's original investigation, the latter would've required some form of torture.
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** You need some form of physical evidence to prove a murder. Howie carried the letter and photo to the island with him (who knows what he did with the envelope?). When they took his clothes to anoint him, the letter and photo were probably within those, and were probably burned. Plus, the ashes of the wicker man after it was burned were probably buried, or thrown into the sea. The police just couldn't show up and say, "We know you murdered Howie". You need proof, or a confession - and considering how difficult the islanders were making Howie's original investigation, the latter would've required some form of torture.
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** Ejaculation also has a religious meaning, as in "an ejaculatory prayer". There's a very good article about it's use in Catholicism [[http://catholicscot.blogspot.com/2014/03/frequent-ejaculation.html here]]. If serpents really are a metaphor for druids (something to do with serpent tattoos), then Beech Buchanan was protected by their frequent prayers.
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** Ejaculation also has a religious meaning, as in "an ejaculatory prayer". There's a very good article about it's its use in Catholicism [[http://catholicscot.blogspot.com/2014/03/frequent-ejaculation.html here]]. If serpents really are a metaphor for druids (something to do with serpent tattoos), then Beech Buchanan was protected by their frequent prayers.
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* There might not be much worth thinking over about the remake, but it does seem likely that the choice of the bees as a divine symbol has much to do with the female bees being active and dominant while the males exist only for reproduction which is symbolised in this matriarchical society. Anyway lets talk about the original film.
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* There might not be much worth thinking over about the remake, but it does seem likely that the choice of the bees as a divine symbol has much to do with the female bees being active and dominant while the males exist only for reproduction which is symbolised in this matriarchical society. Anyway lets let's talk about the original film.
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* Why does Willow look concerned and worried about Rowan during his torture and demise, she made it clear she cared more about the honey harvest.
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* Why does Willow look concerned and worried about Rowan during his torture and demise, she demise? She made it clear she cared more about the honey harvest.
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*** The circumstantial evidence would be overwhelming. Edward went to an island of super suspicious neo-pagan cultists and disappeared while searching for a missing little girl, which is easily enough to warrant an full investigation and probably the arrest of Summersisle. And even if they removed the ashes, there would still be plenty of evidence remaining to prove that there was a large structural fire in the area.
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* While I admit to only seeing the clip from the remake of "No, not the bees!", it strikes me as kind of stupid. If people are pouring a funnel of bees onto your face shouldn't you try keeping your eyes and mouth closed, rather than shouting with your mouth wide open?
** Well, given that he was allergic/phobic of bees (can't remember exactly what) he was probably freaked out beyond rational thought.
** He had also just had his legs broken, and the pain probably didn't help.
* This troper only saw the infamous remake but this probably applies to the original as well: the cultists are aware that they killed ''a police officer'', right? One who was shown ''informing his superior'' where he was going? Good luck hoping for a better harvest, because you ain't getting it, albeit for reasons unrelated to agriculture/apiculture...
** He wasn't a wildly popular police officer, with his colleagues...
*** Wildly popular or not, the OP has a point; police officers don't tend to like it when their colleagues get murdered and tend to pull out all the stops in investigating / bringing the killer to justice, if only because a failure to do so sends the message that you can get away with killing a police officer.
** In the original at least there's nothing from before he landed on the island, for all we know no one knew where he was going.
** In the remake, where does it show him informing a superior? He was on vacation and had absolutely no official police business. He attempted to tell his friend shortly before arriving, but the signal cut out. No one knew and he had no jurisdiction.
*** In the extended edition, he gets a letter from an anonymous person from Summerisle asking him to come and investigate. He gets the letter from a fellow officer. Even if that wasn't a good enough lead, remember, he's a cop. If a cop is going somewhere on duty, as a matter of process he/she will report on where they're going and why, especially if they're going out of town. Cops are thorough that way. And even if for some reason he didn't do that, he flew there. He would've had to plot his course before leaving, and at some point he would have to be in communication with some form of air traffic control, who would have records of where he was headed. Take your pick, someone had to know where he was going.
*** Since all the villagers were in it together, all they had to do was all memorise a simple story 'Oh Howie, yes he came here. He looked for the girl. We told him was dead, look, he's all the documentation. He went back home" Good luck trying to break down that story.
*** Well, except for the fact that Howie himself is both MISSING and DEAD (which means that bullshit stories about him simply going back home aren't gonna fly). Seriously, if a guy goes to a place, and then completely disappears off the map, people are gonna get suspicious about said place. If nothing else, rumors will spread, and people will avoid the island like it has the plague. Hell, the police might send in a full and better-prepared squad (complete with radio for contacting the outside world in case anything goes wrong) if the island is ever involved again in a missing persons case.
*** He flew in on a tiny seaplane. Those things have accidents ''all the time'' *wink, wink*
** Howie briefly brings this up before his sacrifice in the original, and Lord Summerisle responds with "there will be no traces". So the villagers have some cover-up planned.
** He's on an island. If he "went fishing" in a crappy rowboat then it would be easily plausible if the body were never found.
** You need some form physical evidence to prove a murder. Howie carried the letter and photo to the island with him (who knows what he did with the envelope?). When they took his clothes to anoint him, the letter and photo were probably within those, and were probably burned. Plus, the ashes of the wicker man after it was burned were probably buried, or thrown into the sea. The police just couldn't show up and say, "We know you murdered Howie". You need proof, or a confession - and considering how difficult the islanders were making Howie's original investigation, the latter would've required some form of torture.
* I think the point of this entire exercise is: the villagers very likely screwed themselves over.
** Yeah that was my interpretation too. They're not getting their harvest and they're pretty much all going to jail.
* "Here lies [name I forget], protected by the ejaculation of serpents". Is uh, is this supposed to be literal? Because ''this is really bugging me''.
** Simplifying a bit, druids were said to carry magic amulets which protected them from harm. The amulets, supposedly, were made from the ejaculation of serpents, solidified, which the druids had to steal from said serpents in a protracted and difficult fashion. Presumably, it means she was buried with such an amulet. Or, you know, someone just thought it would sound cool to say so.
** Ejaculation also has a religious meaning, as in "an ejaculatory prayer". There's a very good article about it's use in Catholicism [[http://catholicscot.blogspot.com/2014/03/frequent-ejaculation.html here]]. If serpents really are a metaphor for druids (something to do with serpent tattoos), then Beech Buchanan was protected by their frequent prayers.
* The accident at the beginning of the remake: Was there a point to that ''at all'', other than to give Edward a reason to be mentally off the rest of the movie?
** Standard Redemption-Quest stuff: He couldn't save that girl from burning to death but now he has been given a second chance to save Rowan from a similar fate.
* There might not be much worth thinking over about the remake, but it does seem likely that the choice of the bees as a divine symbol has much to do with the female bees being active and dominant while the males exist only for reproduction which is symbolised in this matriarchical society. Anyway lets talk about the original film.
* In the original, Howie is a virgin, making him perfect for the sacrifice, and sleeping with Willow would've gotten him out of it. In the remake, Malus fathers a child with the woman who lures him to the island. How can the already-smacked around remake get what turned out to be a huge detail in the original so wrong?
** Never mind; I read about it myself.
* Why does Willow look concerned and worried about Rowan during his torture and demise, she made it clear she cared more about the honey harvest.
** You mean Edward? And she always looks worried, it's her default expression.
* In the classroom, why do the kids say "phallic symbol" twice?
** To show off the HiveMind perhaps?
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** Well, given that he was allergic/phobic of bees (can't remember exactly what) he was probably freaked out beyond rational thought.
** He had also just had his legs broken, and the pain probably didn't help.
* This troper only saw the infamous remake but this probably applies to the original as well: the cultists are aware that they killed ''a police officer'', right? One who was shown ''informing his superior'' where he was going? Good luck hoping for a better harvest, because you ain't getting it, albeit for reasons unrelated to agriculture/apiculture...
** He wasn't a wildly popular police officer, with his colleagues...
*** Wildly popular or not, the OP has a point; police officers don't tend to like it when their colleagues get murdered and tend to pull out all the stops in investigating / bringing the killer to justice, if only because a failure to do so sends the message that you can get away with killing a police officer.
** In the original at least there's nothing from before he landed on the island, for all we know no one knew where he was going.
** In the remake, where does it show him informing a superior? He was on vacation and had absolutely no official police business. He attempted to tell his friend shortly before arriving, but the signal cut out. No one knew and he had no jurisdiction.
*** In the extended edition, he gets a letter from an anonymous person from Summerisle asking him to come and investigate. He gets the letter from a fellow officer. Even if that wasn't a good enough lead, remember, he's a cop. If a cop is going somewhere on duty, as a matter of process he/she will report on where they're going and why, especially if they're going out of town. Cops are thorough that way. And even if for some reason he didn't do that, he flew there. He would've had to plot his course before leaving, and at some point he would have to be in communication with some form of air traffic control, who would have records of where he was headed. Take your pick, someone had to know where he was going.
*** Since all the villagers were in it together, all they had to do was all memorise a simple story 'Oh Howie, yes he came here. He looked for the girl. We told him was dead, look, he's all the documentation. He went back home" Good luck trying to break down that story.
*** Well, except for the fact that Howie himself is both MISSING and DEAD (which means that bullshit stories about him simply going back home aren't gonna fly). Seriously, if a guy goes to a place, and then completely disappears off the map, people are gonna get suspicious about said place. If nothing else, rumors will spread, and people will avoid the island like it has the plague. Hell, the police might send in a full and better-prepared squad (complete with radio for contacting the outside world in case anything goes wrong) if the island is ever involved again in a missing persons case.
*** He flew in on a tiny seaplane. Those things have accidents ''all the time'' *wink, wink*
** Howie briefly brings this up before his sacrifice in the original, and Lord Summerisle responds with "there will be no traces". So the villagers have some cover-up planned.
** He's on an island. If he "went fishing" in a crappy rowboat then it would be easily plausible if the body were never found.
** You need some form physical evidence to prove a murder. Howie carried the letter and photo to the island with him (who knows what he did with the envelope?). When they took his clothes to anoint him, the letter and photo were probably within those, and were probably burned. Plus, the ashes of the wicker man after it was burned were probably buried, or thrown into the sea. The police just couldn't show up and say, "We know you murdered Howie". You need proof, or a confession - and considering how difficult the islanders were making Howie's original investigation, the latter would've required some form of torture.
* I think the point of this entire exercise is: the villagers very likely screwed themselves over.
** Yeah that was my interpretation too. They're not getting their harvest and they're pretty much all going to jail.
* "Here lies [name I forget], protected by the ejaculation of serpents". Is uh, is this supposed to be literal? Because ''this is really bugging me''.
** Simplifying a bit, druids were said to carry magic amulets which protected them from harm. The amulets, supposedly, were made from the ejaculation of serpents, solidified, which the druids had to steal from said serpents in a protracted and difficult fashion. Presumably, it means she was buried with such an amulet. Or, you know, someone just thought it would sound cool to say so.
** Ejaculation also has a religious meaning, as in "an ejaculatory prayer". There's a very good article about it's use in Catholicism [[http://catholicscot.blogspot.com/2014/03/frequent-ejaculation.html here]]. If serpents really are a metaphor for druids (something to do with serpent tattoos), then Beech Buchanan was protected by their frequent prayers.
* The accident at the beginning of the remake: Was there a point to that ''at all'', other than to give Edward a reason to be mentally off the rest of the movie?
** Standard Redemption-Quest stuff: He couldn't save that girl from burning to death but now he has been given a second chance to save Rowan from a similar fate.
* There might not be much worth thinking over about the remake, but it does seem likely that the choice of the bees as a divine symbol has much to do with the female bees being active and dominant while the males exist only for reproduction which is symbolised in this matriarchical society. Anyway lets talk about the original film.
* In the original, Howie is a virgin, making him perfect for the sacrifice, and sleeping with Willow would've gotten him out of it. In the remake, Malus fathers a child with the woman who lures him to the island. How can the already-smacked around remake get what turned out to be a huge detail in the original so wrong?
** Never mind; I read about it myself.
* Why does Willow look concerned and worried about Rowan during his torture and demise, she made it clear she cared more about the honey harvest.
** You mean Edward? And she always looks worried, it's her default expression.
* In the classroom, why do the kids say "phallic symbol" twice?
** To show off the HiveMind perhaps?
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