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just putting this here for future editors

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'''As a Headscratchers subpage, all spoilers are unmarked [[Administrivia/SpoilersOff as per policy.]] Administrivia/YouHaveBeenWarned.'''
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** I mean, they could also have just told whatever spirit they summoned to tell them what was on each plane. Inefficient, but doable.



* Why does Mrs.Underwood completely support her husband in the raising of Nathaniel/John with no reaction to his care? It is fairly clear early on that Mr. Underwood is subjecting Nathaniel to emotional and social abuse-especially so when he did not protect his apprentice from Lovelace at the party-and proceeded to cause Nathaniel to lash out in the first place. If she had spoken up against his treatment of Nathaniel, the boy would never have had such anger towards his master in the first place, which I can't blame him for.

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* Why does Mrs. Underwood completely support her husband in the raising of Nathaniel/John with no reaction to his care? It is fairly clear early on that Mr. Underwood is subjecting Nathaniel to emotional and social abuse-especially so when he did not protect his apprentice from Lovelace at the party-and proceeded to cause Nathaniel to lash out in the first place. If she had spoken up against his treatment of Nathaniel, the boy would never have had such anger towards his master in the first place, which I can't blame him for.



** Someone who treats a small child as badly as Mr Underwood treats Nathaniel certainly lacks enough empathy to abuse others. It's not hard to imagine that he abused Mrs Underwood too-- physically, verbally, or both. First, she might be too afraid of what he'd do to her to really object to what he does to Nathaniel, or fear that he'd be harsher towards the boy out of spite to her. Second, she might have internalised that kind of behaviour as normal and reasonable discipline. Parents whose children are abused by their partner do often get abused themselves, and do often let their partner get away with it in order to "keep the peace".

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** Someone who treats a small child as badly as Mr Mr. Underwood treats Nathaniel certainly lacks enough empathy to abuse others. It's not hard to imagine that he abused Mrs Mrs. Underwood too-- physically, verbally, or both. First, she might be too afraid of what he'd do to her to really object to what he does to Nathaniel, or fear that he'd be harsher towards the boy out of spite to her. Second, she might have internalised internalized that kind of behaviour behavior as normal and reasonable discipline. Parents whose children are abused by their partner do often get abused themselves, and do often let their partner get away with it in order to "keep the peace".
** There's also the fact that Nathaniel has nowhere else to go. When he meets the Underwoods, he's a five-year-old boy whose parents have sold him to the government, and said government has also destroyed his birth records. Mrs. Underwood is likely well aware that Nathaniel would be a nameless child trying to fend for himself on the streets if her husband ever decided to get rid of him.
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** Early Installment Weirdness. Also in the first book, Nathaniel spies on Lovelace using a laptop, technology which doesn't appear outside that scene or in the other books. The most advanced communications technology that appears is the landline telephone.

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** Early Installment Weirdness. Also in the first book, Nathaniel spies on Lovelace while the latter is using a laptop, technology which doesn't appear outside that scene or in the other books. The most advanced communications technology that appears is the landline telephone.
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** Early Installment Weirdness. Also in the first book, Nathaniel spies on Lovelace using a laptop, technology which doesn't appear outside that scene or in the other books. The most advanced communications technology that appears is the landline telephone.

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* Why, Why, WHY did Nathaniel give Kitty the amulet of Samarkand? That could have saved his life when he fought Nouda (Is the name right? It's been a while.) and didn't help her at all!

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* Why, Why, WHY did Nathaniel give Kitty the amulet Amulet of Samarkand? That could have saved his life when he fought Nouda (Is the name right? It's been a while.) and didn't help her at all!



* Why does Mrs.Underwood completely support her husband in the raising of Nathaniel/John with no reaction to his care? It is fairly clear early on that Mr.Underwood is subjecting Nathaniel to emotional and social abuse-especially so when he did not protect his apprentice from Lovelace at the party-and proceeded to cause Nathaniel to lash out in the first place. If she had spoken up against his treatment of Nathaniel, the boy would never have had such anger towards his master in the first place, which I can't blame him for.

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* Why does Mrs.Underwood completely support her husband in the raising of Nathaniel/John with no reaction to his care? It is fairly clear early on that Mr. Underwood is subjecting Nathaniel to emotional and social abuse-especially so when he did not protect his apprentice from Lovelace at the party-and proceeded to cause Nathaniel to lash out in the first place. If she had spoken up against his treatment of Nathaniel, the boy would never have had such anger towards his master in the first place, which I can't blame him for.






** Plus, how did the first magicians figure out how the whole summoning-business works? When no one summoned anything before, there shouldn't be a hint that the other place exists in the first place, let alone how to reach out for it and summon it's entities, right?

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** The implication is that it's a different process, almost forgotten in the modern era. Binding a brand-new creature with absolutely no experience of Earth just isn't as useful to magicians as summoning an experienced slave.
** Plus, how did the first magicians figure out how the whole summoning-business works? When no one summoned anything before, there shouldn't be a hint that the other place exists in the first place, let alone how to reach out for it and summon it's its entities, right?
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** Fanfics are wish-fulfillment, and only a small and frankly disturbing portion of the fandom would want to read 'The Continuing Adventures of Bartimaeus And A Few Shreds of Badly Burnt Flesh That Used To Be Nathaniel.' Ergo, Nathaniel has to un-die for the writer's purposes.


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*** Yes: that reference suggests that until they're pulled out of the Outer Place, they don't have much sense of individuality - may not even be sentient in the human sense. They may bud from "larger" spirits or split like single-celled organisms.
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** Are we even sure eating a spirit kills it? All spirits are one in the Other Place, so any spirit that gets eaten might be able to be summoned again the moment the spirit that did the eating goes back. But there was a mention of essence being torn and killing the spirit... I assume its a mutual choice. They sort of 'merge' temporarily, mix their essence, then pull away from that bit of mixed essence, and voila! a new spirit. Though I assume most are created by magicians as stated above.
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** Probably a personal thing. 'It' is demeaning, so they have the choice of either he or she. They probably pick whichever one they prefer and stick to it.
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*** Bartimaeus implies in a couple of footnotes that shamans (as opposed to modern magicians) ''invited'' genies rather than compelling them to appear. Possibly the first visitations from the Other Place were curious explorers, taking name and form just to see who keeps calling them.


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** Despite [[UnreliableNarrator Bartimaeus']] claim that genies are the ''only'' source of magician's magic, most of the truly skilled ones make use of spells directly. To name one obvious example, magicians can summon and compel a genie using their own innate skills.
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** The odds are good that they had to rely on objects like Nathaniel's scrying glass, enslaving an imp to be their seeing eye dog.



** Possibly he didn't look? The books seem to make specific mention that djinn have to actually conciously choose to look on the different planes (I think it refers to cycling through them), so maybe he hadn't bothered to check the other planes before speaking?

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** Possibly he didn't look? The books seem to make specific mention that djinn have to actually conciously consciously choose to look on the different planes (I think it refers to cycling through them), so maybe he hadn't bothered to check the other planes before speaking?
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** Word of God says that spirits gravitate toward whichever gender best suits their personality. So while they are sexless, they do have gender to some extent.

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** Word of God says that spirits gravitate toward whichever gender best suits their personality. So while they are sexless, they do have accept or absorb the concept of gender to some extent.
once they start taking bodily forms.
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*In the climax of the first book, Lovelace's master fights Nathaniel, and he is explicitly described as firing black plasma from his hands, and it is mentioned that the plasma fades when he dies. How does that even work in terms of spirits? Was there like some invisible one sitting in his hands making the plasma, or what?
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** ^ This. When Kitty is running away from the building, its mentioned she's thrown to the ground by the explosion and that the Amulet is busily absorbing magical energy around her. Nathaniel gave it to her because he and Bartimaeus both knew she couldn't get far enough away from the blast to make it out otherwise.
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** Most of the time, it seems as though it's the other way around: The guises adopted by the spirits on Earth are the ones which actually take up physical space and have real mass, while their forms on the higher planes are more nebulous and don't necessarily need to conform to the laws of mass and volume. In the prequel, Bartimaeus even says that he can tell the natures of other spirits by the strength of their auras, not by their seventh-plane forms. This seems to indicate that the guises adopted by the spirits are the things which contain their physical existence, while the "true" forms they adopt on the higher planes are mostly just necessary for identification.

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** Most of the time, it seems as though it's the other way around: The guises adopted by the spirits on Earth are the ones which actually take up physical space and have real mass, while their forms on the higher planes are more nebulous and don't necessarily need to conform to the laws of mass and volume. In the prequel, Bartimaeus even says that he can tell the natures of other spirits by the strength of their auras, not by their seventh-plane forms. This seems to indicate that the guises adopted by the spirits are the things which contain their physical existence, while the "true" forms they adopt on the higher planes are mostly just necessary for identification.
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** Bartimeus said in the books that in the Other Place they don't have a definite shape or gender, but they tend to acquire both as a result of being individualized in this world is like a default form. Also, not many spirits appear to like transforming as much as Bartimaeus does, they tend to restrict to few shapes. Is stated that the effort of transformation is energy taxative, that could be a motive. In regard to illusions, they are not "visual" illusions, a lot of other constraints of each shape apply, like weight, height, etc. The body mass apparently changes accordingly. Imagine, just as an example, that the bodies they use are made of living clay: they would be solid, have some of the properties of the object imitated, but they will be an illusion as in "not the real thing".

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** Bartimeus Bartimaeus said in the books that in the Other Place they don't have a definite shape or gender, but they tend to acquire both as a result of being individualized in this world is like a default form. Also, not many spirits appear to like transforming as much as Bartimaeus does, they tend to restrict to few shapes. Is stated that the effort of transformation is energy taxative, that could be a motive. In regard to illusions, they are not "visual" illusions, a lot of other constraints of each shape apply, like weight, height, etc. The body mass apparently changes accordingly. Imagine, just as an example, that the bodies they use are made of living clay: they would be solid, have some of the properties of the object imitated, but they will be an illusion as in "not the real thing".
** Most of the time, it seems as though it's the other way around: The guises adopted by the spirits on Earth are the ones which actually take up physical space and have real mass, while their forms on the higher planes are more nebulous and don't necessarily need to conform to the laws of mass and volume. In the prequel, Bartimaeus even says that he can tell the natures of other spirits by the strength of their auras, not by their seventh-plane forms. This seems to indicate that the guises adopted by the spirits are the things which contain their physical existence, while the "true" forms they adopt on the higher planes are mostly just necessary for identification.
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*** Well, Bartimaeus does make some brief mention of memory being reality in the Other Place (every interaction Kitty has with the spirits there either takes the form of one of her memories, i.e. Jakob, or one of the spirits' memories, i.e. the woman on the hill). Since Ptolemy spent so much time in the Other Place, perhaps his memory got imprinted on the spirits there moreso than most other magicians's did?

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*** Well, Bartimaeus does make some brief mention of memory being reality in the Other Place (every interaction Kitty has with the spirits there either takes the form of one of her memories, i.e. Jakob, or one of the spirits' memories, i.e. the woman on the hill). Since Ptolemy spent so much time in the Other Place, perhaps his memory got imprinted on the spirits there moreso than most other magicians's did?
did? This might give his "memory" more "reality."
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***Well, Bartimaeus does make some brief mention of memory being reality in the Other Place (every interaction Kitty has with the spirits there either takes the form of one of her memories, i.e. Jakob, or one of the spirits' memories, i.e. the woman on the hill). Since Ptolemy spent so much time in the Other Place, perhaps his memory got imprinted on the spirits there moreso than most other magicians's did?
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** Kitty's brief sojourn into the Other Place would seem to indicate that it's possible for spirits to communicate with each other in the Other Place, since she communicated with several while she was there. As for the implementation of Faquarl's plan, it's made clear that Hopkins and Makepeace summoned Faquarl after the Honorius affair, interested in learning about demonic possession. This probably gave Faquarl the idea to use them to take over the ruling magician class, a plan which he then shared with Nouda and other spirits, leading to the demon invasion of Earth.

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\n----\n<<|ItJustBugsMe|>>* In ''Ptolemy's Gate'', Nouda speaks to Faquarl of things not being as he had promised, as if they had discussed the plan before. But when was this? Did Faquarl actually take it upon himself to summon a powerful spirit such as Nouda before the implementation of this plan? And, if not, is it possible for spirits to somehow communicate information to each other while in the Other Place?
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Corrected typos


** Plus, how did the first magicians figure out how the whole summoning-business works? When no one summoned anything before, there shouldn't be a hint that the other place exists in the first place, let aone how to rach out for it and summon it's ntities, right?

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** Plus, how did the first magicians figure out how the whole summoning-business works? When no one summoned anything before, there shouldn't be a hint that the other place exists in the first place, let aone alone how to rach reach out for it and summon it's ntities, entities, right?
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** Plus, how did the first magicians figure out how the whole summoning-business works? When no one summoned anything before, there shouldn't be a hint that the other place exists in the first place, let aone how to rach out for it and summon it's ntities, right?
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** Someone who treats a small child as badly as Mr Underwood treats Nathaniel certainly lacks enough empathy to abuse others. It's not hard to imagine that he abused Mrs Underwood too-- physically, verbally, or both. First, she might be too afraid of what he'd do to her to really object to what he does to Nathaniel, or fear that he'd be harsher towards the boy out of spite to her. Second, she might have internalised that kind of behaviour as normal and reasonable discipline. Parents whose children are abused by their partner do often get abused themselves, and do often let their partner get away with it in order to "keep the peace".
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*How exactly do Spirits get summoned for the first time anyway? Is there a special ritual for summoning a spirit for the first time? or is it just like any other summoning, except you use a new name?
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** It's been awhile (browsing this page has actually made me want to do a reread), but while the way Underwood treats Nathaniel is certainly horrible, is it implied to be particularly egregious in how a magician treats their apprentice? Perhaps she thinks (or hell, maybe she did try to call him on it and he told her) that this is simply how it's done and Nathaniel will appreciate it once he actually becomes a magician.
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* Why does Mrs.Underwood completely support her husband in the raising of Nathaniel/John with no reaction to his care? It is fairly clear early on that Mr.Underwood is subjecting Nathaniel to emotional and social abuse-especially so when he did not protect his apprentice from Lovelace at the party-and proceeded to cause Nathaniel to lash out in the first place. If she had spoken up against his treatment of Nathaniel, the boy would never have had such anger towards his master in the first place, which I can't blame him for.
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** Why? When they chose their magician names, they just so happened to pick the names that we are familiar with. Sure that's a bit of a HandWave, but its still a logical conclusion.
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** Also, The Mercenary mentions that he can see on seven planes. So at least ''some'' humans can naturally see more than the first.

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*** Also, even if the amulet could have protected him from the magic, and even if Nathanial wasn't already dying, the other half of their plan involved collapsing the building on them. That tends to be fatal.


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* If magicians make a point to never reveal their actual names, how is it that the historical magicians all have the same names as their real world counterparts? Shouldn't that not be the case?
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**** In book two he actually ''does'' take a female form in the hopes of impressing whoever summoned him, unaware that it was Nathaniel again.
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** RuleOfFunny in this case, and having just reread the scene, Bart was also trying to irritate Nathaniel.

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