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History Headscratchers / ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne

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** At the time the game came out, which remember was almost two decades ago, most players came into it from Final Fantasy and other JRPGs like it where stat affecting spells are useless and the best strategy is just to hit everything has hard as you can while keeping your HP topped off. Matador buffing his speed to make him untouchable without debuffing or canceling it was something nobody was really expecting let alone knew how to handle at the beginning of this game from a series they'd probably never seen before. Remember the only SMT games in the west at this point where Persona 1, Persona 2 EP and Jack Bros none of which most players probably played and even if they did didn't quite play like a traditional SMT. Years later, Persona 3 4 and 5 made SMT game mechanics much more well known and it's a big series in the west so people probably know what to do now. In 2003 this was not the case.

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** At the time the game came out, which remember was almost two decades ago, most players came into it from Final Fantasy and other JRPGs [=JRPGs=] like it where stat affecting spells are useless and the best strategy is just to hit everything has hard as you can while keeping your HP topped off. Matador buffing his speed to make him untouchable without debuffing or canceling it was something nobody was really expecting let alone knew how to handle at the beginning of this game from a series they'd probably never seen before. Remember the only SMT games in the west at this point where Persona 1, Persona 2 EP and Jack Bros none of which most players probably played and even if they did didn't quite play like a traditional SMT. Years later, Persona 3 4 and 5 made SMT game mechanics much more well known and it's a big series in the west so people probably know what to do now. In 2003 this was not the case.
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** The original release did have Lucifer (in his young boy and old man forms) show up to transform the Demi-Fiend using the Magatama shortly after the Conception and impart cryptic advice. While Manix Mode explained a lot of the ‘whys’, Lucifer doing seemingly random things for giggles and the like is pretty much par for course and most fans accepted it as such at that time. So, yeah, basically remove the bit where Lucifer summons you to the Labyrinth and gives you the Candelabras and sics the Fiends on you. As for Old Man and Young Boy Luci…well, some interpret it as a visual hint as to the nature of the Conception: the old world dies so that a young, new world may be born in its place. Hence why you only see Lucifer’s True Form in the TDE; Kagutsuchi and the cycle of destruction and creation has been destroyed, and thus the facades are no longer necessary.
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*So, as I understand it, all the Amala Labyrinth stuff and the True Demon Ending didn't exist in the inital release. It was like the pre-dlc version of dlc where they rereleased (and localized) the game with a bunch of extra content. Got it. Cool...only...how in the hell did the protagonist become the Demi Fiend in the original game? Is Lucifer and the old Woman just not there in the original game and it's entirely unexplained? Or are they present and they just never show up again and the whole thing is still unexplained and left up to the mysterious actions of mysterious people? And why is Lucifer a little boy ore conception and an old man post conception?
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** You can reason plenty of reasons, going from there only being like 6 people around in the Vortex World; protagonist included, to the other humans around simply not being as pliable or influenceable as the protagonist, to Lucifer just not ''wanting'' to bother making more.
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** MegaTen wiki claims that Mido (his name) was initially a human, but now is one of the few beings who transcended the EternalRecurrence of the setting. That also means that all his incarnations are the same individual.
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** The world is still a sphere, just inside out. Pick any axis through the center and you get poles where it intersects the sphere. Along this axis one hemispehere will be the North, another - the South. As to how they decided which is which - as already pointed out above, there are still landmarks from the old Tokyo. The characters just picked the one they remembered being the northern-most, declared it to be the pole, and called it a day.

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** Well, in the DLC quest in SMT IV Apocalypse, the Demi-fiend (and the other protagonists) have all perished during a certain climactic event in their respective games, in Demi's case, he was killed by Lucifer after destroying Kagatsuchi. Stephen mentions that YHVH is directly responsible to this, killing the Messiahs before they can complete what was set for them. If this was the case, then Lucifer would inevitably fail in the final battle against the Great Will, since his entire role in Nocturne is to nurture the development of the new demon, and killing him has not only undone all that hard work, but has also come to naught as the universe is destroyed...
* So the whole purpose of the Vortex World is for the surviving humans to collect Magatsuchi and construct a reason for a new world to be born. What would happen if all the humans in that Vortex World died?

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** Well, in the DLC quest in SMT IV Apocalypse, the Demi-fiend (and the other protagonists) have all perished during a certain climactic event in their respective games, in Demi's case, he was killed by Lucifer after destroying Kagatsuchi. Stephen mentions that YHVH is directly responsible to for this, killing the Messiahs before they can complete what was set for them. If this was the case, then Lucifer would inevitably fail in the final battle against the Great Will, since his entire role in Nocturne is to nurture the development of the new demon, and killing him has not only undone all that hard work, but has also come to naught as the universe is destroyed...
* So the whole purpose of the Vortex World is for the surviving humans to collect Magatsuchi Magatsuhi and construct a reason for a new world to be born. What would happen if all the humans in that Vortex World died?



** ClothingDamage from awakening to all that sweet, sweet demonic power. Or a demon decided to steal them while he was asleep cause they thought they were stylish.

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** ClothingDamage from awakening to all that sweet, sweet demonic power. Or a demon decided to steal them while he was asleep cause 'cause they thought they were stylish.


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* Everyone talks like Naoki is the ''only'' Demi-Fiend possible, but why? What's stopping Lucifer from making many hybrids and putting the ones willing to swear allegiance into his army?
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* If Aradia is powerless, how is it that she empowers Naoki when they first meet?

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** Symbolism. The fact that Lucifer's lair is a theatre is symbolic of the fact that he's holding secrets away from you, his audiance, on purpose, like in a drama.

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** Symbolism. The fact that Lucifer's lair is a theatre is symbolic of the fact that he's holding secrets away from you, his audiance, audience, on purpose, like in a drama.



*** He also spends some time between being reborn having his soul tortured in hell according to backstory. Then he gets reborn. Also he survived the first time because he wasn't aware of the situation and would have just died with everyone else unknowing as to what was going on. Part of his curse is that he has to realize just what's going on and how one can change things (ie create a reason) but then be denied the chance to do so. When Isamu kills him he's now perfectly aware of just how badly he failed, so he was free to pass on, get tortured and then be reborn to again to realize how the cycle works but have his chance to do anything about it snatched away.
* If you use Lilith in battle, she will say something during her spells that is unclear to this Troper. I'm curious about what she says.

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*** He also spends some time between being reborn having his soul tortured in hell according to backstory. Then he gets reborn. Also he survived the first time because he wasn't aware of the situation and would have just died with everyone else unknowing as to what was going on. Part of his curse is that he has to realize just what's going on and how one can change things (ie (i.e create a reason) but then be denied the chance to do so. When Isamu kills him he's now perfectly aware of just how badly he failed, so he was free to pass on, get tortured and then be reborn to again to realize how the cycle works but have his chance to do anything about it snatched away.
* If you use Lilith in battle, she will say something during her spells that is unclear to this Troper.troper. I'm curious about what she says.



** For starters, he has a move called Red Capote which makes his agility/accuracy skyrocket and will recast it if his agility/accuracy is returned to normal by either speed debuffs like Sukunda or the buff cancelling spell Dekaja, he can use Dekunda to nullify any attack/defense debuffs you put on him (such as Rakunda). And when he TurnsRed, he'll use Taunt to drastically lower your defense before following up with Andalucia -- a multi-hit attack that hits like a truck at that point in the game. Like you said, you can make it a lot easier by equipping a Null Force Magatama and recruiting some demons who are Null/Resistant to Force, but it's essentially a beginner's trap. Oh and you can't attempt to run away and prepare yourself, unlike the majority of the other Fiend battles.

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** For starters, he has a move called Red Capote which makes his agility/accuracy skyrocket and will recast it if his agility/accuracy is returned to normal by either speed debuffs like Sukunda or the buff cancelling spell Dekaja, he can use Dekunda to nullify any attack/defense debuffs you put on him (such as Rakunda). And when he TurnsRed, he'll use Taunt to drastically lower your defense before following up with Andalucia -- a multi-hit attack that hits like a truck at that point in the game. Like you said, you can make it a lot easier by equipping a Null Force Magatama and recruiting some demons who are Null/Resistant Null/resistant to Force, but it's essentially a beginner's trap. Oh and you can't attempt to run away and prepare yourself, unlike the majority of the other Fiend battles.



* This is a minor one, but why is Loki holding a 1000 Yen Bill in his room? The world has come to an end and the new world's currency is Macca, so a 1000 Yen Bill is essentially worthless except as something to collect, but you really get the impression that no one in the Vortex World shares the Collector Manikin's fascination with humans. Why would Loki keep something with absolutely no value?

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* This is a minor one, but why is Loki holding a 1000 Yen Bill bill in his room? The world has come to an end and the new world's currency is Macca, so a 1000 Yen Bill bill is essentially worthless except as something to collect, but you really get the impression that no one in the Vortex World shares the Collector Manikin's fascination with humans. Why would Loki keep something with absolutely no value?



** The way it's explained in-game, it's the former. The entire reality is gone with the Vortex World as its remains, and through the World's power, it awaits for resurrection or destruction.

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** The way it's explained in-game, it's the former. The entire reality is gone with the Vortex World as its remains, and through the World's power, it awaits for resurrection or destruction.


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* Why does Naoki just let Sakahagi leave the first time they meet? Yeah, Naoki's morality is variable, but the guy is a bloodthirsty killer! Even if Naoki doesn't care about the Manikins being slaughtered, Sakahagi is clearly the sort of person who will come back and murder him.

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