History Headscratchers / MobileSuitGundam00

*** Wat. I'm sorry, I don't think patent laws apply when you're notorious global terrorists who use high-end technology which ''isn't patented'' because ''nobody outside Celestial Being's head engineers know how it works''. Do you think CB has a legal team hidden somewhere? Maybe some lobbyists trying to make their interventions legal?

* I'm surprised this is only being brought up now, but at the end of the last episode of S2, there's a conference. As the camera shows who is there, you can clearly see a woman that looks waaay to much to Anew Returner, only she's wearing a suit and glasses. What's up with that?

* What ever happened to the poltical figures from Season 1 during Season 2? In S1, we get several scenes of them, providing their personal insight and reactions. It was nice to see their POV. Then by Season 2, they disappear?

** Branching off the God Complex thing, basically Ribbon's wanted Setsuna to be a Gundam Meister because he considered Setsuna his first "worshiper" in a sense. If you think about it Setsuna and Ribbons both pretty much created each others personalities for the main story line. Because of the Gundam Ribbon's was piloting Setsuna became obsessed with Gundams and thought of them as a god, starting his strange Gundam fetish. While Ribbons saw this random kid who stared up at him as if he were a god, and this started his "A God am I" complex.

* Why did Ribbons hack into Veda to recommend Setsunna as a Meister? I understand why he spared him all those years before, but Ribbons Almark has demonstrated time and again that he has a massive god complex and is an utter sociopath, so why did he do that? It seemed out of character.
** probably because he was aware that the Ptolemy crew was supposed to be killed at the end of S1. That's why he didn't go himself. As for why Setsuna specifically: You mentioned it yourself, it's Ribbons' God complex. Set looked at 0 gundam (so indirectly at Ribbons) as if it were a god, and Ribbons played god for him due to his massive ego. He's just toying around with him. Setsuna, with his love for gundam, is ''in theory'' easy to manipulate.
** Branching off the God Complex thing, basically Ribbon's wanted Setsuna to be a Gundam Meister because he considered Setsuna his first "worshiper" in a sense. If you think about it Setsuna and Ribbons both pretty much created each others personalities for the main story line. Because of the Gundam Ribbon's was piloting Setsuna became obsessed with Gundams and thought of them as a god, starting is strange Gundam fetish. While Ribbons saw this random kid who stared up at him as if he were a god, and this started his "A God am I" complex.

* I was just reading the main article and character sheet ([[TVTropesWillRuinYourLife big mistake]])...and ''wow'',this show makes CodeGeass look like {{Hamtaro}}. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that...it really bugs me that Sunrise seems to think [[OnceAnEpisode every episode]] needs to be a WhamEpisode.
** Go back to episode 9 of the second season. No, not for [[WholesomeCrossdresser Tieria]]. [[RuleThirtySix Well]], [[FetishFuel Maybe]]. Either way, how many times do we see a [[WhatDoYouMeanItsNotSymbolic reflections]] of a character through water, that episode's theme? ''Twelve'', from six separate scenes. Because of all the action and plot occuring every which way, a lot of the subtlty and symbolism is delightfully tucked in between.
*** This also makes combing each and every episode an absolute delight. The most lucrative example is certainly the one second shot of Kinue's workboard (way back in early season one) containing pictures of five scientists who all disappeared while working for a certain Aeolia Schoenberg, four of whom closely resemble, and who's names are anagrams for, the Innovators. (for example you can find Tieria and Regene in Beatrice Eigen, who happens to be female (!)).
*** The /m/ board of 4chan occasionally becomes prophetic in this, remarking (in episode 2! no less) on Lockon's to be lost eye, nearly 4 months before it occured, as well as calling Graham's [[FanNickname Masked Persona]] Bushido Bob more than 3 months before he was reintroduced to us as Mister Bushido.
**** To be honest, that last one is more of a coincidence and an educated guess, than the result of profound analysis of symbolism. And the name itself is still...somewhere between funny and annoying.
** One of the other things this show does do, picking more than a page from CodeGeass and even other Sunrise shows if you want to put it that way, is using (and abusing, at this rate) cliffhangers that are either misleading or dealt with too quickly. Guys, if you don't want to [[spoiler: have Setsuna seriously fight Ali or Mr. Bushido in a way that actually matters this early/late in the show, then stop teasing it!]]
* While not quite qualifying as NightmareFuel, does anyone else think that the Smily Lady holding all the press conferences for the federation during the second season is kind of creepy looking.
** Remember what we all said of Grace from Macross Frontier? Yeah...
* Wasn't [[spoiler: Kinue]]'s death in the first season kind of unnecessary?
** This troper likes to think (though it's probably not true) that the writers were probably trying to get [[FanDumb the crazy fanboys and fangirls]] [[MisaimedFandom to stop]] [[DracoInLeatherPants squeeing over]] [[CompleteMonster Ali al-Saachez]] by having him off a well-intentioned, likeable character to theoretically turn the audience against him. This, apparently, failed [[spoiler: as evidenced (in this troper's mind) by their further efforts, resulting in [[StupidSexyFlanders Stupid Sexy Lockon's]] heartbreaking demise.]] Apparently, [[MoralEventHorizon duping a bunch of impoverished children into killing their families and suicide-bombing civilian targets]] doesn't prevent thousands of fangirls from collectively drooling over a character's five o'clock shadow, or masses of fanboys whacking off to his (admittedly impressive) piloting ability.
** This troper tends to think that Ali's popularity has more to do with his limitless supply of pure, undiluted badassery than anything else.
** I didn't like how her death pretty much killed an entire subplot, and an interesting one at that. It definitely feels like the poor woman was StuffedIntoTheFridge. =/
** Well, from the point of view of the viewers, we'd found out most everything of consequence that her investigations would likely have turned up - as in she'd already found Lagune. Short of finding out that Ribbons was pulling his strings (which we find out pretty soon after that anyway), I don't think that there was much more of import for her to find out. On top of that, killing her off gave Saji one more reason to hate Celestial Being. Whether that was necessary on top of Louise is debatable, but her usefulness to the plot had effectively reached an end and her death helped set up Saji as bitter in R2.
** I always thought of her death sort of like in FMA. In FMA, a certain character had gotten killed because he knew too much. Kinue was learning a little too much, so she got killed.
* As much as [[spoiler:Sergei's death]] in the latest episode of 00 S2 was emotionally moving and well executed (hatred for you-know-who aside)...it just bugs me how blatant it was being foreshadowed. For a show that can actually make use of subtle elements every so often, this was definitely not a surprise nor was it subtle. Even the flashback was a clear sign that it was going to happen very, very soon.
** A series doesn't have to do the subtle thing to set up every single major plot. It gets a bit tedious when things are subtly foreshadowed every single time.
*** Granted, but this time I would have preferred either something more subtle or an actual surprise. Instead of going the other route: let's make it incredibly obvious that this is going to happen right now or at least by the time next episode comes along. Not a huge complaint, just a matter of what I'd have liked to see.
**** I think it would have been a fair guess anyway that this event was going to occur, so they simply didn't bother to hide it - more to increase the suspense. The question was more in ''how'' it would happen, perhaps.

* Speaking of which, what is up with those names? Tieria's is normal by comparison, and yes, many of them have them thematic significants (like Healing Care and Bring Stabity), but they're pretty transparently absurd. It's hard to hold down a giggle about the BigBad being named ''Ribbons''.
** I've heard it suggested that this is a corruption of "Reborn," in much the same way that "Hilling" is meant to be "Healing" and "Stabity" is meant to be "Stability."
** Oh, it's "Hilling"? In any case, the ThematicNaming is still ridiculous.
** Revive Revival? Is this meant to be a joke?

* Am I the only one to think that Nena was hit by one huge CharacterDerailment after the mid-season TimeSkip? Beforehand, she can be seen as someone who [[EvenEvilHasStandards has her own standards in doing her things]]: Never work with those related with Ali, which is the Innovators. [[spoiler:Then, in episode 21, everything crashed down when she rebuked those standards she developed in the first place when she declared that she'd do anything, even if that means working with the Innovators, to live and survive. Talk about a hypocrite. Seriously, I wanted to feel sad when she died, but when she has been derailed like this... it's very hard to feel sad at her.]] The reason why I said this, because this happens in almost zero explanation, which can all be reasoned with... "IT HAPPENED IN THE TIME SKIP!", which sounds like a massive AssPull just so [[spoiler:they can get rid of unnecessary characters in a quicker way, and to add cheap, easy, extra drama for Louise]]. Easily comparable with GundamZZ's Glemmy Toto.
** Sorry, either you viewed a flawed sub or you just conveniently forget some of the things she said. She said she would work with the Innovators (despite hating them) and wait until she could kill them. In other words she wasn't stupid enough to believe she could just kill them outright. She was waiting for a chance to when she could kill them, that is not character derailment nor Hypocrisy. According to the Seiyuu, Nena was doing all of this to avenge her brothers despite hating having to swallow her pride.
** I also felt like something went wrong with Nena. I have this sneaking suspicion that the show's creators originally had something more planned for Nena in Season 2, and then just forgot about her for a while, realized that they didn't have enough time to do whatever they wanted to do, and quickly had her killed off so as not to leave any dangling plot threads. Of course, this could just be a case of EpilepticTrees, but still...
** OK, I get the reasoning stated two bullet-points above me, but that doesn't change the fact that Nena took some steps forward and then backtracked. Like the bullet-point directly above me states, I too feel that Nena was going to have some development (which would actually make the inevitable confrontation with Louis much more interesting), but [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot that plot was wasted post time-skip.]] Seriously, if they were gonna have Nena die a one-note psycho villain, why'd they keep her alive this long instead of just dying with her brothers, who were also characterized as one-note psycho villains? As the most recent entry ''several'' bullet points below me states, Gundam 00's second season just couldn't properly handle the sheer amount of antagonists it had to juggle around.
*** I suppose that rectifying this looks like a job for Banpresto, should they include Gundam 00 in SRW.
** I thought that Nena was going to fight Ali because this is the most plausible turning point they could have given her. Or make it into a heroic sacrifice for Setsuna. Instead we just saw a huge door slam!

* Back to Nena, ItJustBugsMe on how people think she's going to turn out to be alive, even when all odds are against her. Let me see... Her Gundam was stripped into nothing but its cockpit, and was blasted point blank. Unlike Patrick, there's no way she can survive that. Next, the nature of the series has made it clear that they won't be following ''GundamSEEDDestiny'' where if you have a good fanbase, DeathIsCheap, so I don't think that they will pull a [[GundamSEED Mwu La Fraga]] on her, made worse that Mwu is a much more likable character if we compare to Nena, and he wasn't stripped to his cockpit only when he 'died'. Yes, the Bad Haro remains intact, and Nena herself is somewhat an ArtificialHuman. But nobody cares about her to resurrect her... So why do people think she's surviving out there? Her [[DracoInLeatherPants leather pants?]]
** It ain't leather pants. It's a leather ''mini-skirt''.
** She wasn't blasted point blank, she was ''impaled by the freaking giant claw'' of a Mobile Armor, then the cockpit exploded. That'll kill anyone in Gundam 00, ArtificialHuman or not.
*** That depends on exactly what kind of Innovator powers she had. For instance if she was like the Innoveda and her brain was partly/fully a computer, then she could be resurrected. Or maybe her consciousness escaped in the Haro? as for that comment about GundamSeed Destiny... You forget Ali and how he survived getting blown up in S1, or how Lockon came back in the form of his twin or how Tieria is allowed to live by merging his consciousness into Veda. If Anything, especially Tieria's fate is pretty damn cheap fanboy stroking. Now as for Nena coming back? While I doubt it will happen, it won't be because it isn't plausible. No, Nena will stay dead because the writers didn't seem to like Nena very much. If she did come back they left at least a small crack for her to slip through. If she wasn't fully human then if her brain was intact she could logically be revived either in a regenerated body or just a clone one. [[spoiler: Mister Bushido floating around and looking at his blade while contemplating suicide]] gives somebody an opportunity to find and salvage the Haro as well as her remains. That is to say, it is more likely that if Nena appears in the movie it would not be the real Nena but maybe several other copies of Nena or/and her siblings. Ribbons might have kept some in spare in case he needed them for something.
* Setsuna could seem so much better as a pilot if the director actually made some good fights, seriously I just watched episode 22 of S2, so underwhelming. People keep saying he's a crap pilot and isn't convincing enough and that's the director's fault for not better displaying his skills.
** Well, Setsuna does want to become Gundam, and we all know how strong those are... But as far this troper is personally concerned, Setsuna (and for that matter, the majority of the pilots in the show) never really concern themselves with looking like a better pilot, as opposed to winning their battles with what they have at their hand. To quote someone from the ''asshole of the internet'', "Setsuna isn't here to be flashy and skilled, or to prove he's better than anyone, but rather, he's here to accomplish his goals. "
** And isn't it the whole point that he's an average pilot in a BiggerStick mecha? So now that everyone ''else'' also has a BiggerStick mecha, I would expect the differences to be more apparent.
*** If you check the mecha stats in the released manuals, you'll notice that if the original 3rd Generation Gundams can be statted at 100, and the latest generation can be statted at 150, with the Ahead (the basic A-LAWS mech) being quantified at ''140''. Setsuna managed to damage an Ahead in his badly-damaged, malfunctioning, TRANS-AM-less Exia. Obviously, the present Meisters are some of the best around.
*** Actually, Setsuna ''didn't'' manage to damage an Ahead. He damaged a GN-XIII; the Ahead, on the other hand, trashed the Exia (more thoroughly thn it already was, anyway).
*** Can someone post me a link to the manuals?
*** They definitely never say that any of the Gundam Meisters are average pilots in above average suits. Granted, Setsuna being picked by Veda was a bit unique in that Ribbons did it, so he's a special case, but overall, I think that the indications are that the Gundam Meisters are above average pilots (certainly the two Lockons are above average snipers). Regardless of that, however, once Setsuna begins to innovate, he's on par if not beyond the innovators in skill. He ''does'' have by far the best suit out there which definitely helps, but once he's become a true innovator, he seems to pretty much just know where all the attacks are coming from, where the enemy is, etc., so he'd still be doing better than pretty much everyone else if his suit wasn't more powerful than his opponents. Actually, I find it rather funny that they choose to not only upgrade the main character's Gundam in 00 but they choose to upgrade the main character as well.
*** The kid dodges beamspam and funnels like nobody's business, too.

* Does anyone else think AssPull when they see Exia show up out of nowhere in the last episode? I swear that there was next to no warning for it at all.
** The robot that they owned and built which they recovered in the first episode coming back in the last episode is an asspull now? Revise your definitions.
** There was also a fairly obvious warning that Exia would be coming out. Sumeragi told Ian to get R2 ready, which I understood to be Exia on my first viewing. Sure enough, it comes out later and the "R" is for "repair" and has "II" in its model number to signify that it is the second -- the original Exia Repair model is more affectionately known as hobo-Exia.
*** Given the way they set up the 0 Gundam as a Chekov's Gun in the preceding episodes, having the other Gundam they had in storage also ready for a fight does make sense. A Chekov's backup gun perhaps?
**** To be honest, it would have made more sense if they'd used Exia instead of the 0. The 0 has it's long-barrelled rifle, sure, and the Exia is more melee' oriented, but Exia's sword has a ''cannon'' in it along with the vulcans on its other hand, the ROF of which would have helped against the ''hordes of Automatons'' attacking them.
***** But then you wouldn't get Evil Amuro using Evil RX-78-2. RuleOfCool here, people.

* Why the hell is it that people insist that if you like Ali then it's DracoInLeatherPants and not just enjoying him for what we know he is? DracoInLeatherPants implies insisting a character is actually good, in the case of Ali's fanbase we ''know'' he's a CompleteMonster with no redeeming characteristics as a person. We like him because he's so entertaining to watch, an excellent combatant, and above all it's so damn refreshing to have a villain gladly admit he's a CompleteMonster. A [[{{Flanderisation}} flanderised]] trope perhaps?

* Bringing back Ali. Not only does it make Lockon 1's death completely pointless, but it adds ''another'' villain to a second season that already had too many villains. Watching season 2 it always felt like they suddenly had too many antagonists and no clue what to do with them, especially after the relatively small scale combat of season 1. If they wanted someone for Lyle to kill they could have had one of the Innovators be Ali's original employer, or have someone else other than Ribbons (who obviously was going to fight Setsuna) be the one brain-controlling Anew. Same goes for Graham actually. Both got brought back from what should have been the dead, and never got to do much, while at the same time detracting from the number of appearances given to newer villains like the Innovators and the A-Laws. For a show that claims [[DeathIsCheap Death Isn't Cheap]] it just seems wrong that both of them returned.
** What? Ali and Graham? Graham was NotQuiteDead at the end of Season 1 and I don't remember a time where they even tried to imply Ali's death until after he faced Lyle. Even Setsuna has two times where they're trying to imply that you're looking at his corpse, the second time doesn't work because he's sitting exactly the same way as he did at the end of Season 1. AnyoneCanDie but you have to be sure they're actually dead.
*** Would you have preferred I say NoOneCouldSurviveThat then? They also give no indication that Ali has survived Lockon's assault until the Season 1 epilogue. Same with Graham. They both get brought back into the show (when they could have easily been written out there), and then contribute almost nothing to the plot. It's not that I dislike both characters, but I can't help but feel the writers should either have killed them in season 1, or found a better use for them in season 2. Maybe cut down on the Innovators presence, had the two of them work directly for Ribbons? I don't know, but anything would have made me happier than bringing them back and overloading a show that already had LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters. It's one of the things that effectively killed season 2 for me. And what's with Graham suddenly acting like a crazed {{Otaku}}. Seriously, people bitch about CharacterDerailment in GundamSeedDestiny but not about this?
** The way I see it, the point of Lyle being the one to kill Ali and not Neil is that 00's message was very much against Neil's kind of RevengeBeforeReason. It's all about ~Understanding Each Other~, and communicating, etc etc - if Neil's revenge-driven crazy {{Determinator}} thing had succeeded despite his death, it would have been a blow ''for'' the very self-destructive, selfish actions that the show was trying to condemn.
* Why am I hearing that Graham has been downplayed in season 2!? Alas he's a bad ass and honorable fighter and his first custom MS in season 2 looked so awesome! (Last watched episode 5 of season 2) Sure maybe I could potentially see the genius in setting up what looks like another Char rip-off and not having live up to it...but Graham has long be established as being awesome. Gah I hope his role in the movie will make up for it! I've heard Ali also got down played, eh, he's bad ass but I hate him I think I can live with that, been better if he got killed off though.
* Seriously, what happened to Graham in Season 2? First season, he's shown to be one of the best pilots in the entire series, taking on the 3 Thrones at once, and hacking one's arm off (which, if I recall, was the first time a Gundam had been damaged in the entire series) while piloting a Flag no less. And then he becomes an absurd Otaku with a creepy fetish for the 00 (not the Setsuna, the 00), who does almost nothing of consequence, and then gets taken out like a chump near the end. That's not supposed to happen to A CHAR!, especially not one of the Charriest of them all since Gundam Wing. It seems like a lot of the other side characters got downplayed quite a bit, but he definitely seems to have taken it the worst.
** Actually, that may have been the idea. Considering how much 00 played around with the typical Gundam tropes and cliches, I wouldn't be surprised if they intended Graham to be a [[DeconstructedTrope desconstruction]] of the CharClone. All throughout the second season he seems like he's desperately trying to become a 'Char', such as wearing a mask, using an alias, getting a machine that can go [[MemeticMutation Three Times Faster]] and desperately trying to be TheRival to Setsuna. The thing is, it doesn't take. Setsuna never considers him to be any kind of 'Rival' and the 'Epic Final Duel' that Graham was hoping for was ultimately just Setsuna beating some sense into him. Sounds like a DeconstructedTrope to me.

** probably because he was aware that the Ptolemy crew was supposed to be killed at the end of S1. That's why he didn't go himself. As for why Setsuna specifically: You mentioned it yourself, it's Ribbons' God complex. Set looked at 0 gundam (so indirectly at Ribbons) as if it were a god, and Ribbons played god for him due to his massive ego. He's just toying around with him. Setsuna, with his love for gundam, is ''in theory'' easy to manipulate.

** Repressed memories ([[Complete Monster considering what happened later on in the escape]], not surprising...), or just forgetting that she existed due to being away for YEARS. OR Hallelujah was being a dick and repressed the memory.

*** [[spoiler: Just guessing here but I believe that Ribbons was unaware that 'project Trinity' actually managed to produce anything of value. It seems obvious that the Trinities were originally created in order for Ribbons to have a REAL innovator that he could control. Since non of the Trinities were activated through the Green particle spam from the twin drives they wouldn't have displayed all the abilities that Setsuna did. Louise was just a new project and another attempt at creating a real Innovator. When Ribbon's found out about the twin-drives and subsequently later when Setsuna turner innovator it was already to late to make use of Nena or create a new testube baby. A normal clone would just have been as mindless and useless as all those Bring and Nova clones Ribbon's massproduced. Speaking of Nena, it seems he was aware of her existence at least in episode 10 of S2 when he sent Ali to go stop Nena from hacking Veda.]]

** I thought that Nena was going to fight Ali because this is the most plausible tuning point they could have given hger. Or making it into a heroic sacrifice for setsuna. Instead we just saw a huge door slam!

** It ain't leather pants. It's a leater ''mini-skirt''.

* In the second season we learn that [[spoiler:Mary/Soma and only Mary/Soma]] was able to telepathically connect with Lockon. So why didn't he recognize her right off the bat?

* Why did Ribbons hack into Veda to recommend Setsunna as a Meister? I understand why he spared him all those years before, but Ribbons Almark has demonstrated time and again that he has a massive god complex and is an utter sociopath, so why did he do that? It seemed out of character.

*** Wat. I'm sorry, I don't think patent laws apply when you're notorious global terrorists who use high-end technology which ''isn't patented'' because ''nobody outside Celestial Being's head engineers know how it works''. Do you think CB has a legal team hidden somewhere? Maybe some lobbyists trying to make their interventions legal?

** Because if he had then everyone would know about them and everyone would have them.

* question regarding the GN-drive taus, why on earth didn't CB sue to the earth federation over them manufacturing knock offs? surely aeolia schenberg would have had the foresight to have the GN drive patented.(actually this is a criticism that could be applied to most black box technology and super prototypes in general)

** They actually had guns, but didn't use them in the attack. Which makes this even worse.

* [[spoiler:Ribbons has thousands of Trans-Am powered suits with innovator pilots, but makes them a suicide squad and has them charge in predictable straight lines. Two questions: why give them pilots at all except to KickTheDog, and why not equip them with a few guns and make them an unstoppable army rather than glorified bullets?]]

* How did they get Soma back onto the Ptolemaios after [[spoiler:Sergei's death]]? Meaning, why would she have simply gone with Celestial Being, whom she considered her enemies?

* Seriously, what happened to Graham in Season 2? First season, he's shown to be one of the best pilots in the entire series, taking on the 3 Thrones at once, and hacking one's arm off (which, if I recall, was the first time a Gundam had been damaged in the entire series) while piloting a Flag no less. And then he becomes an absurd Otaku with a creepy fetish for the 00 (not the Setsuna, the 00), who does almost nothing of consequence, and then gets taken out like a chump near the end. That's not supposed to happen to A CHAR!, especially not one of the Charriest of them all since Gundam Wing. It seems like a lot of the other side characters got downplayed quite a bit, but he definitely seems to have taken it the worst.

* Why am I hearing that Graham has been downplayed in season 2!? Alas he's a bad ass and honorable fighter and his first custom MS in season 2 looked so awesome! (Last watched episode 5 of season 2) Sure maybe I could potentially see the genius in setting up what looks like another Char rip-off and not having live up to it...but Graham has long be established as being awesome. Gah I hope his role in the movie will make up for it! I've heard Ali also got down played, eh, he's bad ass but I hate him I think I can live with that, been better if he got killed off though.

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