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** Maybe they just never figured out it was Kelso?
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** Yeah, the broken glasses were left at the [[spoiler: fake]] murder scene, and the perp was wearing the new ones. He left the old ones there to make it look more convincing, and he got the replacements beforehand, so he could see.
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** He may have felt like writing it in English?


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** Well, if the other man was trying to kill him, I think saying, "I had to do it to protect my well-being." or something to that effect would pass.

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** I really didn't see the interrogation of Nate as a problem. You ask him straight questions, he gives you straight answers in a confident and even tone. You ask him if he touched or took something from the crime scene (which is a fairly standard, procedural question to ask) and suddenly he gets shouty, defensive and extremely fidgety. He called the cops, yes, but this also implies he's had to stay around the scene for a bit until they showed up. He's a down-on-his-luck working stiff, and he stumbled upon a wallet right there on the ground which nobody will be missing by the looks of it. Who in his position ''wouldn't'' try to scoop a couple bucks out of it ? So yeah, there's no ''evidence'' he did anything wrong, but it's a rather run-of-the-mill assumption to make and his initial reaction tells a tale of its own.[[/folder]]

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** I really didn't see the interrogation of Nate as a problem. You ask him straight questions, he gives you straight answers in a confident and even tone. You ask him if he touched or took something from the crime scene (which is a fairly standard, procedural question to ask) and suddenly he gets shouty, defensive and extremely fidgety. He called the cops, yes, but this also implies he's had to stay around the scene for a bit until they showed up. He's a down-on-his-luck working stiff, and he stumbled upon a wallet right there on the ground which nobody will be missing by the looks of it. Who in his position ''wouldn't'' try to scoop a couple bucks out of it ? So yeah, there's no ''evidence'' he did anything wrong, but it's a rather run-of-the-mill assumption to make and his initial reaction tells a tale of its own.own.
* Did anyone ever give an explanation for "Newly Repaired Glasses" vs. "New Glasses" in that traffic case? Did someone just fuck up?
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* In "A Walk Through the Elysian Fields" when being chased by the bulldozer, the insurance investigator kills a man with his concealed weapon. How does he immediately goes back to work without a word from law enforcement?
* In any case (especially Chapman during Arson) where you shoot and kill the suspect, what if I shoot to wound? Shouldn't Cole at the very least get a dying declaration out of them?
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****** [[http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/race-in-games Boom.]] What you seem to be missing is Cole isn't the guy you seem to think he is. People try to white wash Cole and turn him into this perfect white knight who is out of character when he does things like intentionally incriminate the person who is the least likely to have committed the crime, or [[spoiler: cheat on his wife]], but the fact is that that's just who Cole is. The flashbacks to his time as a marine tell all: he's not trying to change who he is, he's just trying to avoid making the same mistakes that got him a reputation as a hated officer and eventually got him shot in a dingy cave full of burning japanese people. Noir stories are usually BlackAndGrayMorality, and this game is not different. You say the romance makes no sense because of Cole's character and it felt like an ass pull. I say you weren't paying any attention to Cole's character, or at worse this is some attempt at turning him into DracoInLeatherPants out of some misplaced denial about the little glory hound. I'm not saying I don't like Cole or that he's a bad guy, but you gotta look at him the same way you might look at {{House}}, for example. Good at his job, and his job is doing something good, but he's not Mr. Perfect, due in no small part to his tragic character flaw of ''wanting'' people to see him as Mr. Perfect.

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****** [[http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/race-in-games Boom.]] What you seem to be missing is Cole isn't the guy you seem to think he is. People try to white wash Cole and turn him into this perfect white knight who is out of character when he does things like intentionally incriminate the person who is the least likely to have committed the crime, or [[spoiler: cheat on his wife]], but the fact is that that's just who Cole is. The flashbacks to his time as a marine tell all: he's not trying to change who he is, he's just trying to avoid making the same mistakes that got him a reputation as a hated officer and eventually got him shot in a dingy cave full of burning japanese people. Noir stories are usually BlackAndGrayMorality, and this game is not different. You say the romance makes no sense because of Cole's character and it felt like an ass pull. I say you weren't paying any attention to Cole's character, or at worse this is some attempt at turning him into DracoInLeatherPants out of some misplaced denial about the little glory hound. I'm not saying I don't like Cole or that he's a bad guy, but you gotta look at him the same way you might look at {{House}}, Series/{{House}}, for example. Good at his job, and his job is doing something good, but he's not Mr. Perfect, due in no small part to his tragic character flaw of ''wanting'' people to see him as Mr. Perfect.
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** It's a messy situation, but no, Phelps and Biggs were lawfully pursuing a murder and arson suspect, and under normal conditions, the military police should not have tried to stop them. The problem is that Phelps and Biggs do not identify themselves as officers of the law when they chase Mapes to the airport (even though they had identified themselves earlier and were chasing Mapes with their siren on), so, any deaths are a result of poor communication. Hughes Aircraft is a privately owned airport, with military police acting as security, but it is -not- a government installation, and therefore, the MPs do not have proper cause to prevent local detectives from performing their job.

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** It's a messy situation, but no, Phelps and Biggs were lawfully pursuing a murder and arson suspect, and under normal conditions, the military police should not have tried to stop them. The problem is that Phelps and Biggs do not identify themselves as officers of the law when they chase Mapes to the airport (even though they had identified themselves earlier and were chasing Mapes with their siren on), so, any deaths are a result of poor communication. Hughes Aircraft is a privately owned airport, with military police acting as security, but it is -not- a government installation, and therefore, the MPs army police do not have proper cause to prevent local detectives from performing their job.job, and gunning down the military police qualifies as self-defense.
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** It's a messy situation, but no, Phelps and Biggs were lawfully pursuing a murder and arson suspect, and under normal conditions, the military police should not have tried to stop them. The problem is that Phelps and Biggs do not identify themselves as officers of the law when they chase Mapes to the airport (even though they had identified themselves earlier and were chasing Mapes with their siren on), so, any deaths are a result of poor communication. Hughes Aircraft is a privately owned airport, with military police acting as security, but it is -not- a government installation, and therefore, the MPs do not have proper cause to prevent local detectives from performing their job.
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* Not sure about this, but the jeweler Kalou seems a bit darker than most American jews, plus his name does not sound Ashkenazi at all. It seems likelier that he would be Sephardic, so why does he spout so much Yiddish? Would real-life Sephardic Jews have been likely to act like that in 1940s Los Angeles.

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* Not sure about this, but the jeweler Kalou seems a bit darker than most American jews, plus his name does not sound Ashkenazi at all. It seems likelier that he would be Sephardic, so why does he spout so much Yiddish? Would real-life Sephardic Jews have been likely to act like that in 1940s Los Angeles.Angeles?

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* Why did the Argentinian consul write his commentaries in English? It is not like the game shied away from using Spanish words and phrases elsewhere.

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* Why did the Argentinian consul write his the commentaries in his personal journal in English? It is not like the game shied away from using Spanish words and phrases elsewhere.


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* Not sure about this, but the jeweler Kalou seems a bit darker than most American jews, plus his name does not sound Ashkenazi at all. It seems likelier that he would be Sephardic, so why does he spout so much Yiddish? Would real-life Sephardic Jews have been likely to act like that in 1940s Los Angeles.
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******* This is exactly what I found the problem! The other issue was that we saw close to nothing of Cole's life at home and we get so scenes between and Elsa establishing their romance. A bit down someone stated that they tried to spin it as TheReveal, but it still falls flat, being a CharacterDerailment for Cole and the moment where I lost sympathy for him. Had we seen some scenes between him and Elsa, this would not have happened, as it would have shown Cole's imperfections, but also establishing that he did in fact have feelings for her. Compare this to when Ed Exley sleeps with Lynn Bracken in ''LAConfidential''. We see her seducing him, Syd taking the pictures and then Bud finding them. Had they gone straight to Bud, we would have lost the sympathy for Exley, as his ''motivation'' for doing it would be lost. A character can do an amoral deed without us shouting WhatTheHellHero, as long as we see the motivation for doing it. It was lost here and Cole's reaction are so cold and bland that it's hard to keep sympathy for him. Plus it's buildup is so badly handed (no previous tension with Elsa and his wife having not been seen at all) that when it comes, it's a lot less the TheReveal and more of an AssPull.
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**** The characterization of Roy having dirt on all of his partners would certainly be in keeping with the player's introduction to Roy ("Do they (Ad Vice) all dress like movie stars?" "Roy is a movie star, and the whole of the seedy side of LA is his audience."). This could even be a bit of Foreshadowing, considering how other movie stars are portrayed in the game, with one, [[spoiler: June Ballard]] more than willing to sell out a younger actress, much like how Roy sells Cole out.

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**** The characterization of Roy having dirt on all of his partners (and probably most of the city or police force) would certainly be in keeping with the player's introduction to Roy ("Do they (Ad Vice) all dress like movie stars?" "Roy is a movie star, and the whole of the seedy side of LA is his audience."). This could even be a bit of Foreshadowing, considering how other movie stars are portrayed in the game, with one, [[spoiler: June Ballard]] more than willing to sell out a younger actress, much like how Roy sells Cole out. Getting Cole into Ad Vice is just Roy's way of staying on top - Homicide is seen the prestige desk assignment, but Roy is stuck working drug cases (thanks to a former partner now being his commander), so he pulls some strings and finagles the hotshot new detective and puts him in a hole so that spotlight remains on himself.
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**** The characterization of Roy having dirt on all of his partners would certainly be in keeping with the player's introduction to Roy ("Do they (Ad Vice) all dress like movie stars?" "Roy is a movie star, and the whole of the seedy side of LA is his audience."). This could even be a bit of Foreshadowing, considering how other movie stars are portrayed in the game, with one, [[spoiler: June Ballard]] more than willing to sell out a younger actress, much like how Roy sells Cole out.
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****** [[http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/3633-Race-in-Games Boom.]] What you seem to be missing is Cole isn't the guy you seem to think he is. People try to white wash Cole and turn him into this perfect white knight who is out of character when he does things like intentionally incriminate the person who is the least likely to have committed the crime, or [[spoiler: cheat on his wife]], but the fact is that that's just who Cole is. The flashbacks to his time as a marine tell all: he's not trying to change who he is, he's just trying to avoid making the same mistakes that got him a reputation as a hated officer and eventually got him shot in a dingy cave full of burning japanese people. Noir stories are usually BlackAndGrayMorality, and this game is not different. You say the romance makes no sense because of Cole's character and it felt like an ass pull. I say you weren't paying any attention to Cole's character, or at worse this is some attempt at turning him into DracoInLeatherPants out of some misplaced denial about the little glory hound. I'm not saying I don't like Cole or that he's a bad guy, but you gotta look at him the same way you might look at {{House}}, for example. Good at his job, and his job is doing something good, but he's not Mr. Perfect, due in no small part to his tragic character flaw of ''wanting'' people to see him as Mr. Perfect.

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****** [[http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/3633-Race-in-Games [[http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/race-in-games Boom.]] What you seem to be missing is Cole isn't the guy you seem to think he is. People try to white wash Cole and turn him into this perfect white knight who is out of character when he does things like intentionally incriminate the person who is the least likely to have committed the crime, or [[spoiler: cheat on his wife]], but the fact is that that's just who Cole is. The flashbacks to his time as a marine tell all: he's not trying to change who he is, he's just trying to avoid making the same mistakes that got him a reputation as a hated officer and eventually got him shot in a dingy cave full of burning japanese people. Noir stories are usually BlackAndGrayMorality, and this game is not different. You say the romance makes no sense because of Cole's character and it felt like an ass pull. I say you weren't paying any attention to Cole's character, or at worse this is some attempt at turning him into DracoInLeatherPants out of some misplaced denial about the little glory hound. I'm not saying I don't like Cole or that he's a bad guy, but you gotta look at him the same way you might look at {{House}}, for example. Good at his job, and his job is doing something good, but he's not Mr. Perfect, due in no small part to his tragic character flaw of ''wanting'' people to see him as Mr. Perfect.
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** Probably, but Nicholson Electroplating is the 2nd to last case. [[spoiler: And Cole dies in the last one.]]
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** It's meant to be a quick introduction into the way the LAPD works. Floyd Rose's name is found in the contact book of a murderer. Okay, so Floyd Rose is dirty. Fast-forward through Traffic, and Cole is promoted to Homicide ''because Floyd Rose retired''. If you even remember the name at that point, it's an indication that the LAPD is not necessarily staffed with honest people, and that, while Traffic was pretty straightforward, from here, morality starts to get murky.
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**** The point of the interrogation scenes is to establish a chain of events, using evidence and statements. Cole makes guesses, sure, but if you pay attention, he never strays very far from where the evidence leads (unless you're completely wrong with which of the three options you take). He makes logical deductions based on what he has and what he knows.


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*** Also, the receipt is dated the day before (though, since the game doesn't explicitly tell you the date, it can be hard to figure this out). If Frank knew nothing about the car, and by nothing we mean nothing ''unusual'', then why did he buy a pig and ''obviously'' transport it in the trunk of the car the day before? There's hay everywhere in the trunk and the receipt is a dead giveaway. Cole might not be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Frank was there when the "accident" happened, but the fact that Frank is completely stonewalling him about it tells him more than if Frank had said he and Adrian bought a pig and transported it in the car.
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**** Also note that when fidelity comes, Cole is curiously quiet about it after the Homicide cases. He's outspoken about everything else, but when it comes to staying faithful, he has nothing to say. The implication is that the massive cover-up orchestrated at the end of the Homicide cases shattered his faith so badly that he sought solace in the arms of a woman who has likewise seen hardship and suffering. He specifically says to his wife "If you knew what I'd been going through these past few months." He's ''broken'', and he doesn't know how to deal with it. He felt he couldn't talk to his wife about it. He started talking to Elsa, who sympathized, and ultimately the friendship just went a bit further. And that broke Cole ''more'', because he wasn't being faithful. In other words, throughout the Vice cases, Cole is torn between a guilty conscience and a self-appointed moral duty to be better than he was being. It's pretty easy to see if you look for it, as he's notably more confrontational and borderline violent during the Vice cases.

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***** Arson is boring. Homicide has you tackling the hardest crimes and catching murderers. Vice comes with a glamorous lifestyle. Even Traffic has a variety of
cases from hit-and-runs to attempted murder. Every Arson case is either an accident or a simple insurance scam.

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***** Arson is boring. Homicide has you tackling the hardest crimes and catching murderers. Vice comes with a glamorous lifestyle. Even Traffic has a variety of
of cases from hit-and-runs to attempted murder. Every Arson case is either an accident or a simple insurance scam.


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** The final nail in the coffin here is that Arson is routinely investigated, determined to be either malicious, accidental, or fraud, and subsequently solved. There's no bad guy, and if there is, the evidence is usually incinerated in the course of the act. Arson isn't glamorous, it's ''paperwork''. Herschel has been working in the division for years, and he looks at every arson in a "get it done" kind of way: find the evidence (if any), log it, determine cause, close the case. The fact that Cole is bitter and ''desperate'' to show up the LAPD is what turns the division into something much, much bigger, and he goes ''way'' outside his technical jurisdiction to do so (in theory, any arson case that turns into a murder case would be assigned to Homicide). Cole was assigned to Arson to watch his career die. His dogged determination to show that he's better than even the LAPD knows is what saves him, and he caught a lucky break catching on to the SRF scandal. Nothing more.

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** I really didn't see the interrogation of Nate as a problem. You ask him straight questions, he gives you straight answers in a confident and even tone. You ask him if he touched or took something from the crimescene (which is a fairly standard, procedural question to ask) and suddenly he gets shouty defensive and extremely fidgety. He called the cops, yes, but this also implies he's had to stay around the scene for a bit until they showed up. He's a down-on-his-luck working stiff, and he stumbled upon a wallet right there on the ground which nobody will be missing by the looks of it. Who in his position ''wouldn't'' try to scoop a couple bucks out of it ? So yeah, there's no ''evidence'' he did anything wrong, but it's a rather run-of-the-mill assumption to make and his initial reaction tells a tale of its own.[[/folder]]

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** I really didn't see the interrogation of Nate as a problem. You ask him straight questions, he gives you straight answers in a confident and even tone. You ask him if he touched or took something from the crimescene crime scene (which is a fairly standard, procedural question to ask) and suddenly he gets shouty shouty, defensive and extremely fidgety. He called the cops, yes, but this also implies he's had to stay around the scene for a bit until they showed up. He's a down-on-his-luck working stiff, and he stumbled upon a wallet right there on the ground which nobody will be missing by the looks of it. Who in his position ''wouldn't'' try to scoop a couple bucks out of it ? So yeah, there's no ''evidence'' he did anything wrong, but it's a rather run-of-the-mill assumption to make and his initial reaction tells a tale of its own.[[/folder]]

[[folder:Odds and ends]]
* Why did the Argentinian consul write his commentaries in English? It is not like the game shied away from using Spanish words and phrases elsewhere.
* Shouldn't gunning down Military Police have greater repercussions than are shown in-game, even if they attacked you first?
[[/folder]]
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** She shows up in a blink and you'll miss it part of the opening. We see Phelps leaving his house in a Patrolman uniform and his wife kisses him goodbye. Also he wears a wedding ring, and you get plenty of good views of his fingers whenever he pulls out his damn notebook. Beeeeee more attentive?

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** She shows up in a blink and you'll miss it part of the opening. We see Phelps leaving his house in a Patrolman uniform and his wife kisses him goodbye. Also he wears a She's also mentioned ''dozens'' of times before you even reach Vice, and Cole is wearing his wedding ring, and ring the entire game. If you get plenty of good views of his fingers whenever he pulls out his damn notebook. Beeeeee more attentive?missed it, you just plain flipping weren't paying attention.
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** She shows up in a blink and you'll miss it part of the opening. We see Phelps leaving his house in a Patrolman uniform and his wife kisses him goodbye.

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** She shows up in a blink and you'll miss it part of the opening. We see Phelps leaving his house in a Patrolman uniform and his wife kisses him goodbye. Also he wears a wedding ring, and you get plenty of good views of his fingers whenever he pulls out his damn notebook. Beeeeee more attentive?
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** She shows up in a blink and you'll miss it part of the opening. We see Phelps leaving his house in a Patrolman uniform and his wife kisses him goodbye.
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***** Arson is a highly technical assignment; Cole appears to have a college education, probably in English literature (judging by his knowledge of Shakespeare and Shelley) partnered up with a washed out detective who, whilst a competent arson investigator with the technical know-how, write things off as accidents or insurance scams. Perhaps they didn't expect the liberal arts educated Cole to be able to do a very good job at arson...
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*** 1940's hat etiquette was rather strict, and they ignore a lot of it during the game. Entering a private residence or office men would remove their hat, and similarly in a church (usually you'd keep them on your lap or on the pew). Women would keep hats on. There were even strange rules regarding in what circumstances one removes ones hat in a lift. Hats would definitely NOT have been worn at a funeral - indeed one would have removed ones hat if one was out on the street and the funeral procession past by.

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** In terms of game mechanics, you've got to keep the facial clues in mind first and foremost during the questioning sequences. Nate doesn't have the most confident face after that question, and he even voices the answer defensively. Mrs. Black works similarly with the picture bit. Outside of game mechanics, it's working as though it's a noir contemporary to the 1940s, and so it expects the player to treat it as an interactive one.[[/folder]]

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** In terms of game mechanics, you've got to keep the facial clues in mind first and foremost during the questioning sequences. Nate doesn't have the most confident face after that question, and he even voices the answer defensively. Mrs. Black works similarly with the picture bit. Outside of game mechanics, it's working as though it's a noir contemporary to the 1940s, and so it expects the player to treat it as an interactive one.one.
** I really didn't see the interrogation of Nate as a problem. You ask him straight questions, he gives you straight answers in a confident and even tone. You ask him if he touched or took something from the crimescene (which is a fairly standard, procedural question to ask) and suddenly he gets shouty defensive and extremely fidgety. He called the cops, yes, but this also implies he's had to stay around the scene for a bit until they showed up. He's a down-on-his-luck working stiff, and he stumbled upon a wallet right there on the ground which nobody will be missing by the looks of it. Who in his position ''wouldn't'' try to scoop a couple bucks out of it ? So yeah, there's no ''evidence'' he did anything wrong, but it's a rather run-of-the-mill assumption to make and his initial reaction tells a tale of its own.
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***** Arson is boring. Homicide has you tackling the hardest crimes and catching murderers. Vice comes with a glamorous lifestyle. Even Traffic has a variety of cases from hit-and-runs to attempted murder. Every Arson case is either an accident or a simple insurance scam.

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***** Arson is boring. Homicide has you tackling the hardest crimes and catching murderers. Vice comes with a glamorous lifestyle. Even Traffic has a variety of of
cases from hit-and-runs to attempted murder. Every Arson case is either an accident or a simple insurance scam.scam.
***** But the point is, there's even more boring police work out there. Ask [[TheWire Lester]], who's painstakingly logged and filed stolen items claims for thirteen years [[InsistentTerminology and four months]].
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** Especially considering it's a fairly open secret to the general public just how crooked the Vice squad is. I figure the Commissioner would jump at any opportunity to spin to the whole wide world how they're "really" a zero tolerance outfit.
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** While I don't know about the particulars of hypodermic manufacture in the 1940s, I would assume that the morphine in the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrette syrettes]] was aseptic. Diluting it further would only contaminate it with particles and pathogens and who-knows-what-else. Of course, hopheads desperate enough will buy and use anything, so it may have come down to having the facilities necessary to extract the fluid from the syrettes and dilute it in an efficient fashion. Repackaging into syrettes alone would have been a real nightmare.
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* And for that matter, how come the BD killer managed to plant the evidence on top of the chandelier without causing it to come crashing down like Phelps? After all, they are about the same size.
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** He probably didn't notice it. When he did, Cole was already out in the middle of the tar pit. He probably figured, "Eh, he'll get there on his own. I'll get him out with the canoe later..."

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