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Responded to random things.
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**Why assume the ecoterrorist organization AVALANCHE (introduced to us at the start of the game by destroying a reactor in the flashiest possible way -- killing loads of innocent people, causing billions in damage in a city with high taxes and half its people in slums to start with, and causing a long blackout in areas with literally no sunlight or access to fresh water -- because it's more emotionally rewarding than an awareness campaign and inventing Energy Star would be) are "heroes"? They're the protagonists. The only character that threatens to be a hero in this game is killed off halfway through.
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***Tifa's character throughout most of the game is basically just her sitting there knowing things with her/Cloud's backstory are wrong, and not saying anything because, um, she's scared of upsetting him or something. It probably bothered her loads, just like Cloud having the wrong memories bothered her. It's just that she reacts by not saying anything. Plus, they rebuilt the town but if it burned down, that's not really ''her'' house (or Cloud's, for that matter). Game mechanics reasons for using the same backdrops aside, those are probably just similar houses in about the same place, and there's no possible way Shinra got them to look identical to the originals on the inside.
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** Some common fannon says that Hojo is completely inept, and cites breeding Aerith and Red XIII as an example. It's more consistent with other things in the game than assuming he's a great scientist would be.
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*** Yeah, it's the name screen. I have an app that views the script straight off the PSX disks, and it's Aerith there. Retcon indeed. Also, some file names on the disks relating to her call her something like "earith" -- I think her name's supposed to come from "Earth" but can't remember if that's official -- and while they still spell it wrong, they do end it in TH. I don't have a Japanese copy, but I bet you the filenames are identical.
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**I think character art's meant to sell the premise, not the conclusion.
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*** She's a moderately successful materia thief whose father owns an island nation. (Even in broke countries the leaders have some money.)
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** The answer is a plot point in the game. The stronger you are mentally, the less likely your mind is to be overwhelmed by all the competing thoughts/memories/feelings of the lifestream, which is what mako poisoning is. That was the difference between Cloud and Zack when Hojo experimented on them. (And all that stuff about failed and successful experiments.) We know Cloud has a pretty weak sense of self because he got mako poisoning back then too, but Tifa must not have that problem. My understanding of the part about Sephiroth is that he should actually have died five years ago from the fight and possibly the fall, but didn't give up his sense of self like dead people are meant to. Cloud and Tifa were just living people exposed to mako.
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*** I heard the super-long Supernova animation isn't even in the original Japanese version. Which doesn't explain why it was added, but it's an excuse to ignore the whole mess. I mean, with the other planets getting named, treating that animation like canon is a bit Planet of the Apes. Let's treat it like "this guy are sick" and move on.
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**** She'd still know the most effective ways to use the energy she had.
*** Tifa's own humiliation at being an accomplished martial artist caught in a ''slap fight'' with someone who tried to kill her should outweigh any damage she could to Scarlet by slapping her.
*** Tifa's own humiliation at being an accomplished martial artist caught in a ''slap fight'' with someone who tried to kill her should outweigh any damage she could to Scarlet by slapping her.
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**** Google what? Most terms from this game will just bring up guides and maybe fic. Doesn't this rumor just come from her deal with Cloud to go out with him if he'll be her bodyguard?
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*** So basically, they replace Midgar with a similar city, just like the person above said. I mean, I'm sure the ones living on top of the plates find Edge a bit crap, but we pretty much never saw them in the original game anyway. "Undone" clearly meant that all the dramatic parts of FF7 are now meaningless. It's a writing complaint, not a realism complaint. Much of the narrative of FF7 is destroyed by the Compilation. Death scenes don't matter because those people aren't even out of communication, the very last scene where we know that nature does beat the city is now followed by a story set right outside it in another big city, every sacrifice the members of AVALANCHE made is pointless now because Sephiroth and Shinra still aren't really gone and everyone still lives in slums. The same thing has even been done to the ''themes'' of the game, with the mako reactors being replaced by the fossil fuels they represented to begin with. And let's not get started on the character arcs they threw out the resolutions to.
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**And she was stabbed through the spine...and through her chest. Hell Sephiroth was gentle enough to let her slide down his Katana. She was deader than dead.
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No question here, just bitching.
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* It's WAY overrated but yet it gets a remake, what the hell Square?! Remake 4, 5, or 6, those were the best in the series.
** Actually, on second thought, don't remake them, keep them for the SNES because the PS3 would ruin them, making all the characters look like they jumped from an anime series just is bleh.
** Actually, on second thought, don't remake them, keep them for the SNES because the PS3 would ruin them, making all the characters look like they jumped from an anime series just is bleh.
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* Why does anyone - and I mean, ANYONE - trust Cloud with any part of this mission? As soon as he starts going crazy in the temple, that should be a big giant red flag that he should not be given any sort of item that Sephiroth is searching for. Instead, the party cheerfully hands him the meteor-summoning artifact, which Cloud hands over to Sephiroth in a fit of hypnosis, no more than sixty seconds later. Can anyone say [[TheMillstone "Millstone"]]?
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* Why does anyone - and I mean, ANYONE - trust Cloud with any part of this mission? As soon as he starts going crazy in the temple, Temple of the Ancients, that should be a big giant red flag that he should not be given any sort of item that Sephiroth is searching for. Instead, the party cheerfully hands him the meteor-summoning artifact, Black Materia, which Cloud hands over to Sephiroth in a fit of hypnosis, no more than sixty seconds later.later. Even worse, later in the game Sephiroth poses as Cloud to get back the Black Materia, and instead of the party saying "Hell no, we can't trust that you won't give it to Sephiroth again", they willingly give away the Black Materia ''again''. Can anyone say [[TheMillstone "Millstone"]]?
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* Why does anyone - and I mean, ANYONE - trust Cloud with any part of this mission? As soon as he starts going crazy in the temple, that should be a big giant red flag that he should not be given any sort of item that Sephiroth is searching for. Instead, the party cheerfully hands him the meteor-summoning artifact, which Cloud hands over to Sephiroth in a fit of hypnosis, no more than sixty seconds later. Can anyone say [[TheMillstone "Millstone"]]?
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* It's WAY overrated but yet it gets a remake, what the hell Square?! Remake 4, 5, or 6, those were the best in the series.
** Actually, on second thought, don't remake them, keep them for the SNES because the PS3 would ruin them, making all the characters look like they jumped from an anime series just is bleh.
** Actually, on second thought, don't remake them, keep them for the SNES because the PS3 would ruin them, making all the characters look like they jumped from an anime series just is bleh.
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*** That's what GameplayAndStorySegregation ''is''. But if you want to fanwank it, think of 0 HP as not dead, but fatally wounded. When the character is fatally wounded, a Phoenix Down is enough to keep them from actual dying. The player, it's assumed, will be doing so post-hast, while the enemy guards are cut down by you before they can administer treatment.
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*** Ok, I'll go along with the Supernova answer, but the phoenix down thing is still there. If a ShinRa guard attacks you and you reach 0 hp you can use a phoenix down. If a ShinRa guard is confused and attacks a fellow and they reach 0 hp, why do they die permanently as opposed to you. Both took damage from the same weapon, from the same sort of soldier, etc etc. The only differnce is that you are the player, and the computer is the computer. So why do they die from the exact same wound and you get put into whatever state Phoenix Downs help with?
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** Answer to both: GameplayAndStorySegregation. You're expecting gameplay mechanics to apply outside of battle in a game that demonstrates that this is clearly not the case. ''Especially'' with Supernova. The attack ''blows up the sun'', and you're worried about it being "dodged"? If the attack was really happening, that would be ''it'', no planet, no saving the world. And Phoenix Downs do '''''not''''' revive you from the dead.
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* Two questions here...
a) How the heck can Supernova miss? If it's a mental attack, then it should hit. If it's a physical attack... well, I don't think you can dodge the sun destroying the solar system.
b) Why doesn't ShinRa (or any government/corperation like them, in any FF game) buy cheap-as-heck phoenix downs for their soldiers. Evil governments and corperations could just requisition them from shops, while 'good' governments and corperations could spend the money that goes to giving their soldiers weak status spells on phoenix downs instead. Reviving soldiers mid-battle would revolutionise warfare. And only one game has done this that I know of (LostOdyssey. The opening cutscene shows how white mages can properly use all-raise spells). For one status materia you can get a couple of phoenix downs. Can you imagine Avalanche invading ShinRa headquaters (TWICE! Needs new security) if all the people they fought had 5 or so lives?
a) How the heck can Supernova miss? If it's a mental attack, then it should hit. If it's a physical attack... well, I don't think you can dodge the sun destroying the solar system.
b) Why doesn't ShinRa (or any government/corperation like them, in any FF game) buy cheap-as-heck phoenix downs for their soldiers. Evil governments and corperations could just requisition them from shops, while 'good' governments and corperations could spend the money that goes to giving their soldiers weak status spells on phoenix downs instead. Reviving soldiers mid-battle would revolutionise warfare. And only one game has done this that I know of (LostOdyssey. The opening cutscene shows how white mages can properly use all-raise spells). For one status materia you can get a couple of phoenix downs. Can you imagine Avalanche invading ShinRa headquaters (TWICE! Needs new security) if all the people they fought had 5 or so lives?
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*** The Jenova cells thing was to explain why Sephiroth was (comparatively) okay while Aerith wasn't.
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***** That doesn't change the fact that a severed spine is not lethal.
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*** The Japanese mythology doesn't mean anything as far as the game goes. No other Masamune in the series has had that requirement, and aside from the name there's nothing to indicate that it has that property here. I'd say the fact he was a mercenary soldier who had little if any qualms about his work means more than the mythological etymology of his weapon.
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***Actually, a more accurate comparison would be one between Sephiroth and Celes Chere, given what WordofGod stated. Basically, both Celes and Sephiroth destroyed an entire town willingly and likewise decimated it (Celes with Maranda, and Sephiroth with Nibelheim), both were enhanced to utilize magic and were considered more of a success than their predecessor(s) (Celes with Kefka, and Sephiroth with Genesis/Angeal), and both were implied to be pure of heart (Yes, I know, Sephiroth being pure of heart is surprising due to his being a villain, but bear with me as I'll explain what I mean: it was mentioned that Celes, as a result of the Magitek procedure, had a heart pure as snow, and Sephiroth wielded the Masamune. Now, according to Japanese Mythology, apparently the Masamune was a holy sword that only the pure of heart can wield. The mere fact that Sephiroth could even wield it with such proficiency would indicate that he is pure of heart.). But still, it's getting into huge double standard moments when you have Celes as a hero, yet make Sephiroth as an irredeemable villain if they have similar personas/actions.
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***In regards to Cloud's emoness, while it is dialed up in the movie, he gets even stronger justifications for it than he ALREADY had, which is saying a lot. The game ends, he comes to grips with his past, and even starts up a family. And then out of nowhere, he gets super cancer (in the form of Geostigma)! And your adoptive son? More super cancer! And the reason people everywhere in the world are getting infected is because his childhood hero hates him so much that he's going to try and get revenge despite being dead. He feels like all of the horrible things happening in the world are his fault, and to makes matters worse, they partially are. After all, if he'd just beaten down Sephiroth's will a bit more at the end of VII, maybe he wouldn't be able to manifest himself again. This line of thought clearly can't be healthy for the guy.
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Denzel isn't his son.
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**** His son having a terminal disease helps as well.
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**** His son Denzel having a terminal disease helps as well.
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*** I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that Zack might have thought Cloud may take it literally for the same end. The only reason Cloud was starting to get out of the current BSOD caused by Hojo and everything was because of Zack himself. ([[TraumaCongaLine Trauma Conga Line anyone?]]) I don't think it's outside the realm of possibilities to say that Cloud would have had another BSOD again as a reaction and died from exposure and starvation before he ever started to come back a second time. Before his death, it's possible Zack could have clued in on that fact. Cloud wasn't as strong as Zack, and it was IMO obvious that he idolized Zack as well as Sephiroth after they met. It's hard to imagine someone you idolize breaking down or easily dying; so by pushing his memories and identity onto Cloud, at the time Zack was pushing Cloud into becoming someone who would keep going. While it's possible it caused Cloud's coma later on, overall I think at the time it was the only thing that kept him alive through that trauma. I could just be over reading it, but I still don't think it's implausible.
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**** His son having a terminal disease helps as well.
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*** Well Vincent does but he's a little rusty.
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**** You forgot that Sephiroth was injected with Jenova cells from birth.
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** Not to mention that, aside from Cloud, none of them have any military training that would've let them act like efficient commandos in the first place.
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Extremely thinly disguised trolling.
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* Why is this game so popular?!
** Because it actually might be a good game. Shocker!
** Because it actually might be a good game. Shocker!
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*** A severed spine is a serious injury but not lethal. And Sephiroth himself could walk and talk after suffering exact the same injury, brought to him by the freaking Buster Sword (which should have severed not only his spine but his entire lower body half).
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* This one is fairly minor compared to most of the above examples...but, there are enemies that are listed as being weak against Gravity. Except Gravity spells consist of the three Demi spells, which deal a set percentage of damage depending on the level of the spell. So...how exactly does that work?
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** Um...No. It has been stated by WordOfGod that it was vise-versa. It was the inverse of what you are saying. Sephiroth controlled Jenova and it was his will. SoYeah. I will throw in two cents in this arguement about fans liking Sephiroth. People liked Kefka. People like the Joker. Its not unfamiliar to like a villain even a villain as insane as Sephiroth. In fact, in wrestling, its pretty common for fans to hate the good guys and cheer for the bad guys.
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** Um...No. It has been stated by WordOfGod that it was vise-versa. It was the inverse of what you are saying. Sephiroth controlled Jenova and it was his will. SoYeah. I will throw in two cents in this arguement about fans liking Sephiroth. People liked Kefka. People like the Joker. Its not unfamiliar to like a villain even a villain as insane as Sephiroth. In fact, in wrestling, its pretty common for fans to hate the good guys and cheer for the bad guys.
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** Midgar doesn't get replaced. They move the hell out of Midgar. The remnants and even the old Shinra building(whats left of it after Cloud vs Sephiroth) are still there. Edge, the new city north of Midgar, is more like a shanty town becoming a city thanks to WRO picking up old Midgar pieces. Shinra didn't come back as a military force, but they became more like a more "green" conscience entity which does resolve quite a few problems. They are the good guys now and this allows people a fighting chance against those dreadful monsters. Rufus doesn't magically reappear in the Compiliation. It has been stated that he survived the WEAPON attack via Trap Door so it would have been more climatic if FF7 made sure he was dead and not just assumed. Even during Final Fantasy 7, not all the WEAPONS are destroyed if DoC is to be believed. Aerith coming back from the dead to communicate is nothing the Compliation made up either since you can see her ghost in her church on Disk 3. Zack, being a Cetra's boyfriend, also gets the same treatment. In fact, Final Fantasy 7 ended with a bunch of open ended problems such as the [[TheEndofTheWorldAsYouKnowIt state of the world being...alive.]]Not sure what you are saying about things being undone. Its like you are asking for shit to be miserable. By the way, Red XIII had issues, not particularly paternal, with having a long lifespan, but that was quicky remidied by Vincent who assured him that he will always be around to be his friend. SoYeah.
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** Midgar doesn't get replaced. They move the hell out of Midgar. The remnants and even the old Shinra building(whats left of it after Cloud vs Sephiroth) are still there. Edge, the new city north of Midgar, is more like a shanty town becoming a city thanks to WRO picking up old Midgar pieces. Shinra didn't come back as a military force, but they became more like a more "green" conscience entity which does resolve quite a few problems. They are the good guys now and this allows people a fighting chance against those dreadful monsters. Rufus doesn't magically reappear in the Compiliation. It has been stated that he survived the WEAPON attack via Trap Door so it would have been more climatic if FF7 made sure he was dead and not just assumed. Even during Final Fantasy 7, not all the WEAPONS are destroyed if DoC is to be believed. Aerith coming back from the dead to communicate is nothing the Compliation made up either since you can see her ghost in her church on Disk 3. Zack, being a Cetra's boyfriend, also gets the same treatment. In fact, Final Fantasy 7 ended with a bunch of open ended problems such as the [[TheEndofTheWorldAsYouKnowIt state of the world being...alive.]]Not sure what you are saying about things being undone. Its like you are asking for shit to be miserable. By the way, Red XIII had issues, not particularly paternal, with having a long lifespan, but that was quicky remidied by Vincent who assured him that he will always be around to be his friend. SoYeah.
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** Sephiroth hit her dead-center through the back. I.e., the spine.
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*Am I really the only one who wonders why Aerith died in the first place? She was stabbed in the stomach. There should have been plenty of time to heal her. Normally people don't die within one second from a stomach wound. And we've seen a couple of characters who survived such a wound (and even worse) in the compilation.
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** Starting from the top, Gillian had Jenova's pure cells implanted in her, Genesis consequently had Gillian's cells mapped onto him at the fetal stage while Angeal was bred inside Gillians body. All this was deemed a ailure beause initially, Genesis and Angeal didn't show any abnormality while Sephiroth, who was given pure Jenova cells as fetus was deemed a success, after that he was put to extensive Mako experiments. Zack, Angeal, Genesis and all the other SOLDIER applicants also have to go through Mako showers and have Jenova cells put inside them but being full grown men (or 14 years old as seems to be norm) it had a reduced effect. As is established at the nibelheim reactor, Sephiroth's Mako levels are much higher then Zack or any other SOLDIER. Afterwards Cloud and Zack were put into Mako shower for 4 years by Hojo. zack was the failure of the experiment and showed no change while Cloud was overdosed and was dying, now we all know what Clou had to do to survive the treatment, but in the end he probably had much higher Mako levels then a person would after the normal SOLDIER treatment. Same goes for Shelke and to a lesser extent Deepground. And thus the pecking order goes Sephiroth>Cloud>Deepground SOLDIER>Type G SOLDIER>SOLDIER, Genesis and Zack are a little higher then expected because they are just that good. But on the whole it's all about Mako.
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**Because it actually might be a good game. Shocker!
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** I always suspected it was a case of RapeAsDrama and that the marriage was to cover it up. I wouldn't put it past him. He ''did'' try to "breed" Aeris, remember?
