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*** The point is that Archer is no different when he's summoned by Alaya and when he's summoned by Rin; he's the same artificial heroic spirit either way. Whatever his possible actions, his capabilities are the same. As for the Unlimited Blade Works thing...looks like that was a mistranslation on the part of the wiki; after translating the Fate/Side Material entry myself, the part in question reads roughly "Within this reality marble, all the elements needed to make swords are present, and if the original is seen it's possible to easily create it. However, reproduced weapons are lowered in rank by one." While that's 2 for 3 for the wiki from what I've seen, I'm still pretty sure that it wouldn't have mattered; I'm still quite sure that WordOfGod stated that Archer and Rin were more than capable of winning the war, and it's easy to see how Berserker could be dealt with (either eliminated by someone else, or taken out by Archer is something besides a standup fight). As for Sakura, she ''doesn't'' have a reason to agree. With Shirou gone, she doesn't have a reason to ''breathe''. Everything has been taken from her, making her far more likely to agree with ''Shinji'', who's participation was his own idea.
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***** No, when they're summoned they ''don't'' have free will. Otherwise, Archer could have gone around stopping the danger more surgically, or could have just outright ''refused'' to do the job. He simply does not have the ''option''. As for summoning, what I meant by what I said is that he's no different from any ''other'' Heroic Spirit when he's summoned into the war. He's there to fulfill his own wish, and Alaya has nothing to do with it and has no control over him. As for UBW, I don't trust TM wiki enough to believe it when it claims that rank degredation doesn't apply inside UBW, especially since that would have made Archer not using it against Berserker just plain moronic (and don't say that he ''couldn't'', because he does not show ''any'' signs of prana deprivation in that scene and if Shirou can manage to use it one night after making a connection to Rin, Archer sure as hell could have used it in Fate). As for Sakura, yeah it'd likely break her totally, but that's the ''point''. Zouken's original plan for the war is to get Sakura to fight and to have her collect the souls and convert into Angra Mainyu. But, with Shirou around and fighting in the war, she refuses (which, given what she expects Zouken to do to her, takes a ''great'' deal of strength and courage). However, if he were ''dead'', she would have no reason to refuse and, indeed, every reason to ''agree''. Shinji fighting was only ever a backup plan for Zouken, to be used when Sakura can't be activated. Shirou's death, especially if Rin is partially to blame, would make activating Sakura utterly trivial, and thus the events would go much like HF, only with Sakura being a lot more willing to fight. In that situation, it would be simply idiotic to leave Rider with an inferior master when she had a much ''better'' one, who she is also more loyal to, who is entirely willing to fight in the war.
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**** Counter Guardians are humans...or were. It's not that they don't have free will, it's that the [[http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Counter_Force#Beast_of_Alaya Beast of Alaya]] doesn't give them any other ''options''. Archer was pretty clear about that; his horror at his role was that he was only ever summoned ''after'' things had gone completely to shit and he was forced to kill everyone involved. Him being summoned as a heroic spirit rather than into his Counter Guardian is an absurdity. Counter Guardians pretty much ''are'' [[http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Heroic_spirits#Counter_Guardian heroic spirits]]. Also, it's made clear [[http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Unlimited_Blade_Works in side material]] that the rank degradation only applies when he's using normal projection magic, not when he's within his reality marble. And with Shirou dead, Sakura would still not be guaranteed to fight. Hell, I'd almost go so far as to say it's incredibly unlikely. Having her ''one'' source of hope be killed is more likely to [[DespairEventHorizon break her completely]] than drive her towards vengeance, especially as evidenced by just how much it took to get her to kill Shinji in Heaven's Feel (the combined and inadvertent efforts of Shirou and Angra Mainyu). And since Zouken is perfectly willing to allow Shinji to be a master in any of the routes, anyway...
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**** No, they're not. Counter Guardians are humans, yes, but when they're summoned as Counter Guardians they have no free will, so that they can only act to fulfill their goal as Counter Guardians. Archer has free will, and thus is ''not'' a Counter Guardian. He is just the same as every other Heroic Spirit in the war, a copy of a hero taken from the Throne of Heroes who accepted the summons because he had a wish to fulfill. As for the weapons in UBW, it's never made clear if the reduction in rank applies in there too, but it's certainly hinted that it does. As for Sakura, with Shirou dead she would ''certainly'' agree to fight, with some prodding from Zouken (and even if she didn't the shadow would likely show up due to her despair at his death), and if Zouken is backing her wish to fight then Shinji is an ''irrelevance'', because he won't dare stand up to Zouken. She only let him take the command spells because she didn't want to fight in the first place.
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Wrong markup, of course...
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* The Counter ''Force'' has no consciousness. It's like its name, a force that simply reacts to things, but it rarely takes direct steps. The Counter ''Guardians'' it deploys are humans, mystically-boosted to the functional level of servant spirits, and are very much conscious. That's kind of a huge factor in Archer's backstory; didn't become disillusioned the instant he was summoned into this war; his awareness during all of his previous deployments overrode his lack of memory. Oh, and the weapons Archer produces within UBW aren't reduced in rank. That's only if he doesn't deploy his reality marble and just uses projection magic. There's also still no indication that Sakura would be willing to fight, partly because it's still fundamentally against her nature, and partly because Shinji insisted that she hand over the reins to him. Even Shirou dying wouldn't necessarily remove those two obstacles.
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* The Counter ''Force'' has no consciousness. It's like its name, a force that simply reacts to things, but it rarely takes direct steps. The Counter ''Guardians'' it deploys are humans, mystically-boosted to the functional level of servant spirits, and are very much conscious. That's kind of a huge factor in Archer's backstory; didn't become disillusioned the instant he was summoned into this war; his awareness during all of his previous deployments overrode his lack of memory. Oh, and the weapons Archer produces within UBW aren't reduced in rank. That's only if he doesn't deploy his reality marble and just uses projection magic. There's also still no indication that Sakura would be willing to fight, partly because it's still fundamentally against her nature, and partly because Shinji insisted that she hand over the reins to him. Even Shirou dying wouldn't necessarily remove those two obstacles.
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** It's not that Saber doesn't see herself as a warrior, but that she doesn't even see herself as a ''human being.'' Combine that with the fact that she is a Servant in the Holy Grail War and that mages in the Nasuverse are extremely pragmatic and cutthroat (and her last master was also an Emiya who happened to be the most pragmatic and cutthroat of them all), then Shirou's behavior is completley mystifying until she realizes that he's basically a male version of herself (which in turn means that the stuff that she hates about him is also true about herself).
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** It's not just that Saber doesn't see herself as a warrior, woman, but that she doesn't even see herself as a ''human being.'' Combine that with the fact that she is a Servant in the Holy Grail War and that mages in the Nasuverse are extremely pragmatic and cutthroat (and her last master was also an Emiya who happened to be the most pragmatic and cutthroat of them all), then Shirou's behavior is completley mystifying until she realizes that he's basically a male version of herself (which in turn means that the stuff that she hates about him is also true about herself).
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** It's not that Saber doesn't see herself as a warrior, but that she doesn't even see herself as a ''human being.'' Combine that with the fact that she is a Servant in the Holy Grail War and that mages in the Nasuverse are extremely pragmatic and cutthroat (and her last master was also an Emiya who happened to be the most pragmatic and cutthroat of them all), then Shirou's behavior is completley mystifying until she realizes that he's basically a male version of herself (which in turn means that the stuff that she hates about him is also true about herself).
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**** But, Gil's swords aren't reduced by a rank. Archer's ''are''. Normally, that doesn't matter much, but when you're up against Berserker.... As for Sakura, Zouken never bothered in Fate/UBW because he couldn't get her to willingly fight, and attempting to force her wouldn't work. With Shirou dead, she'd get involved quite willingly. And, at the beginning of HF (or maybe in the later flashback to that scene), she is shown coming to him and asking if she has to kill all the masters, and he replies that he only ''wants'' the servants, which suggests to me that she is fully aware that she's capable of absorbing them and knows at least ''some'' of her powers (she never has anyone to use them on voluntarily). With Shirou dead, she has a damn good reason to fight, and thus would willingly do so. That would mean her being activated and absorbing servants like in HF, and thus would result in the shadow emerging. As for Archer, he is ''not'' summoned in his Counter Guardian form. Counter Guardians are forces of nature, devoid of free will. Archer thinks for himself and ''acts'' for himself. The world has no control over him whilst he's a servant. It is ''maybe'' possible for him to get some limited backing from the world (although I doubt it), but the world certainly cannot ''control'' him or order him around, and he has no interest in simply fulfilling the role of a Counter Guardian (which, by the way, would be "flatten Fuyuki"). Yeah, he'd likely want to stop the Grail being used, but only because ''he'' wouldn't want to see it being used, and he certainly wouldn't be willing to harm Ilya to do it.
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**** But, Gil's swords aren't reduced by a rank. Archer's ''are''. Normally, that doesn't matter much, but when you're up against Berserker.... As for Sakura, Zouken never bothered in Fate/UBW because he couldn't get her to willingly fight, and attempting to force her wouldn't work. With Shirou dead, she'd get involved quite willingly. And, at the beginning of HF (or maybe in the later flashback to that scene), she is shown coming to him and asking if she has to kill all the masters, and he replies that he only ''wants'' the servants, which suggests to me that she is fully aware that she's capable of absorbing them and knows at least ''some'' of her powers (she never has anyone to use them on voluntarily). With Shirou dead, she has a damn good reason to fight, and thus would willingly do so. That would mean her being activated and absorbing servants like in HF, and thus would result in the shadow emerging. As for Archer, he is ''not'' summoned in his Counter Guardian form. Counter Guardians are forces of nature, devoid of free will. Archer thinks for himself and ''acts'' for himself. The world has no control over him whilst he's a servant. It is ''maybe'' possible for him to get some limited backing from the world (although I doubt it), but the world certainly cannot ''control'' him or order him around, and he has no interest in simply fulfilling the role of a Counter Guardian (which, by the way, would be "flatten Fuyuki"). Yeah, he'd likely want to stop the Grail being used, but only because ''he'' wouldn't want to see it being used, and he certainly wouldn't be willing to harm Ilya to do it.
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**** But, Gil's swords aren't reduced by a rank. Archer's ''are''. Normally, that doesn't matter much, but when you're up against Berserker.... As for Sakura, Zouken never bothered in Fate/UBW because he couldn't get her to willingly fight, and attempting to force her wouldn't work. With Shirou dead, she'd get involved quite willingly. And, at the beginning of HF (or maybe in the later flashback to that scene), she is shown coming to him and asking if she has to kill all the masters, and he replies that he only ''wants'' the servants, which suggests to me that she is fully aware that she's capable of absorbing them and knows at least ''some'' of her powers (she never has anyone to use them on voluntarily). With Shirou dead, she has a damn good reason to fight, and thus would willingly do so. That would mean her being activated and absorbing servants like in HF, and thus would result in the shadow emerging. As for Archer, he is ''not'' summoned in his Counter Guardian form. Counter Guardians are forces of nature, devoid of free will. Archer thinks for himself and ''acts'' for himself. The world has no control over him whilst he's a servant. It is ''maybe'' possible for him to get some limited backing from the world (although I doubt it), but the world certainly cannot ''control'' him or order him around, and he has no interest in simply fulfilling the role of a Counter Guardian (which, by the way, would be "flatten Fuyuki"). Yeah, he'd likely want to stop the Grail being used, but only because ''he'' wouldn't want to see it being used, and he certainly wouldn't be willing to harm Ilya to do it.
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*** Um...yes, in fact, the UBW sword-spam would work. That's kinda how Gilgamesh took Berserker down (hell, even after Berserker broke through Enkidu, he even finished him off with the Gae Bolg prototype). And there's no reason to assume that Sakura would become the Shadow. Zouken wasn't bothering in Fate or UBW, and Sakura never used shadow magic of her own volition until Shirou gave her the confidence to do so. And there's plenty of reason to assume that Archer is a Counter Guardian during the Grail War, since the Holy Grail itself is a threat to humanity, and he certainly had ''some'' help getting through the last days of the UBW route.
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******* Hmm, that ''is'' odd, but nonetheless it doesn't mean that he would have beaten Berserker otherwise. And, the reason Archer doesn't use UBW is because there's no ''point''. It reduces the terrain advantage that may help Archer fight against an insane monster (since it's a flat wasteland) without giving him any benefits (since UBW sword-spam won't work on Berserker). As for Archer's actions, he is ''not'' a Counter Guardian, he is a summoned hero with his own wishes, conscience and motivations, just like everyone else. What he is, however, is ''Emiya Shirou'', albeit a warped version of him. So, when the shadow manifests itself, it is only natural for him to attempt to destroy it. It has nothing to do with his Counter Guardianhood. Whilst you're right that he'll want to prevent the Grail being used, it's made quite clear in Fate that Archer will ''not'' harm Ilya, and I can't imagine Rin letting her live once she's defeated, because Rin wants the Grail (even if she won't use it), and that means Ilya. So, Archer will not be willing to take down Berserker, but would instead go for Gil first, resulting in Berserker obliterating the already-wounded winner of said fight (although I suppose Gil might still take him if he were to somehow defeat Archer). As for fighting Sakura, Archer does ''not'' have his Counter Guardian powers and, as long as he is Rin's servant, ''will not'' have them. He could not take her down, and because Sakura would be in a seriously angry mood Archer and Rin wouldn't last long enough to trace the Jewelled Sword once the idea came up.
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****** Archer did have a non-healing wound. Rin discusses it in HF - normally damage heals, but the wound from Saber did not. See: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?action=showpost&postid=377304047 There's no indication at all that Archer was '95% healed' by the time of the Berserker fight. In the VN, there's no evidence even that Archer is left enough energy to use UBW. Additionally, Archer in the grail war *is* a counter guardian - sufficient in HF to suspend his grudge against Shirou when the Shadow appeared. Merely disliking his job does not suspend the terms of his oath. (And Archer hates his job specifically because he always appears too late to actually prevent the disaster instead of just doing mop-up, which isn't a problem this time round.) Archer in addition knows the rotten nature of the grail (since he's been through the war before), and so will never allow Rin to win the war and make a wish on the grail - nor would Rin want to, really. Plus, saving Ilya is not a distinct goal from his duties as a counter guardian: Fate route Shirou destroyed the grail *by* saving Ilya. It's not at all clear that full power counter guardian Archer, cooperating with Ilya (and so capable of projecting the gem sword, amongst others), would not be a match for Sakura. And if Sakura manifests, Ilya will tell Archer what he needs to know about the Great Grail.
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****** Archer did have a non-healing wound. Rin discusses it in HF - normally damage heals, but the wound from Saber did not. See: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?action=showpost&postid=377304047 There's no indication at all that Archer was '95% healed' by the time of the Berserker fight. In the VN, there's no evidence even that Archer is left enough energy to use UBW. Additionally, Archer in the grail war *is* a counter guardian - sufficient in HF to suspend his grudge against Shirou when the Shadow appeared. Merely disliking his job does not suspend the terms of his oath. (And Archer hates his job specifically because he always appears too late to actually prevent the disaster instead of just doing mop-up, which isn't a problem this time round.) Archer in addition knows the rotten nature of the grail (since he's been through the war before), and so will never allow Rin to win the war and make a wish on the grail - nor would Rin want to, really. Instead Archer would adopt Shirou's role of ending the war by killing all the bad masters and servants, waiting for Kotomine to step in, then killing Gil, and then nuking the Grail instead of making a wish on it. Plus, saving Ilya is not a distinct goal from his duties as a counter guardian: Fate route Shirou destroyed the grail *by* saving Ilya. It's not at all clear that full power counter guardian Archer, cooperating with Ilya (and so capable of projecting the gem sword, amongst others), would not be a match for Sakura. And if Sakura manifests, Ilya will tell Archer what he needs to know about the Great Grail.Grail, if he does not know it already. (Canon has the Great Grail disassembled after the end of the grail war, so Archer may well have learned of it.)
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****** Archer did have a non-healing wound. Rin discusses it in HF - normally damage heals, but the wound from Saber did not. See: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?action=showpost&postid=377304047 There's no indication at all that Archer was '95% healed' by the time of the Berserker fight. In the VN, there's no evidence even that Archer is left enough energy to use UBW. Additionally, Archer in the grail war *is* a counter guardian - sufficient in HF to suspend his grudge against Shirou when the Shadow appeared. Merely disliking his job does not suspend the terms of his oath. Archer in addition knows the rotten nature of the grail (since he's been through the war before), and so will never allow Rin to win the war. Plus, saving Ilya is not a distinct goal from his duties as a counter guardian: Fate route Shirou destroyed the grail by saving Ilya. It's not at all clear that full power counter guardian Archer, cooperating with Ilya (and so capable of projecting the gem sword, amongst others), would not be a match for Sakura. And if Sakura manifests, Ilya will tell Archer what he needs to know about the Great Grail.
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****** Archer did have a non-healing wound. Rin discusses it in HF - normally damage heals, but the wound from Saber did not. See: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?action=showpost&postid=377304047 There's no indication at all that Archer was '95% healed' by the time of the Berserker fight. In the VN, there's no evidence even that Archer is left enough energy to use UBW. Additionally, Archer in the grail war *is* a counter guardian - sufficient in HF to suspend his grudge against Shirou when the Shadow appeared. Merely disliking his job does not suspend the terms of his oath. (And Archer hates his job specifically because he always appears too late to actually prevent the disaster instead of just doing mop-up, which isn't a problem this time round.) Archer in addition knows the rotten nature of the grail (since he's been through the war before), and so will never allow Rin to win the war. war and make a wish on the grail - nor would Rin want to, really. Plus, saving Ilya is not a distinct goal from his duties as a counter guardian: Fate route Shirou destroyed the grail by *by* saving Ilya. It's not at all clear that full power counter guardian Archer, cooperating with Ilya (and so capable of projecting the gem sword, amongst others), would not be a match for Sakura. And if Sakura manifests, Ilya will tell Archer what he needs to know about the Great Grail.
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****** Archer did have a non-healing wound. Rin discusses it in HF - normally damage heals, but the wound from Saber did not. See: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?action=showpost&postid=377304047 There's no indication at all that Archer was '95% healed' by the time of the Berserker fight. In the VN, there's no evidence even that Archer is left enough energy to use UBW. Additionally, Archer in the grail war *is* a counter guardian - sufficient in HF to suspend his grudge against Shirou when the Shadow appeared. Merely disliking his job does not suspend the terms of his oath. Archer in addition knows the rotten nature of the grail (since he's been through the war before), and so will never allow Rin to win the war. Plus, saving Ilya is not a distinct goal from his duties as a counter guardian: Fate route Shirou destroyed the grail by saving Ilya. It's not at all clear that full power counter guardian Archer, cooperating with Ilya (and so capable of projecting the gem sword, amongst others), would not be a match for Sakura. And if Sakura manifests, Ilya will tell Archer what he needs to know about the Great Grail.
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***** Archer in Fate was just as capable of using Nine Lives as Shirou was in HF, injury or not (and, BTW, Archer did ''not'' have a "non-healing wound", ''Saber'' did, from Lancer. Saber doesn't have the ability to do that, and by the time of that battle Archer was at ''least'' 95% healed). But, he never thought of it because, honestly, why the hell would he bother to attempt to trace a ''lump of rock''? Shirou did so because he never had any other option. Plus, Shirou would have lost that battle if it were normal Berserker, likely without even getting a hit in. Fate shows that Archer can't beat Berserker, at least not easily. As for Archer's goal, if Rin let Shirou die, then she would go all-out to win the Grail, and thus he could not support her. In particular, he would ''not'' want to let her defeat Ilya, because Ilya is the Grail and thus Rin must ''necessarily'' kill her to win the war. And Archer in the Grail War is ''not'' a Counter Guardian. He hates the job, so there is absolutely no reason to believe he'd go out of his way to act on it even at the expense of Ilya. Also, he doesn't know about the Great Grail, so he sure as hell wouldn't be able to destroy ''that''. Plus, you're still ignoring Sakura here. If she gets activated (and it's likely that she would, because with Shirou dead she'd have no reason not to fight and every reason ''to'' fight, plus Zouken would end up making her blame Rin for it) then she is 90% certain to win, because none of the servants or masters could stand up to her (especially with Zouken assisting using True Assassin, who he would summon if Sakura were involved like he does in HF).
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**** Fate doesn't show at all that Archer would lose to Berserker. It shows that a near-mortally wounded Archer, saddled with a special non-healing wound from Saber, would lose to Berserker. HF and Nine Bullet Revolver shows clearly that a full powered and sufficiently motivated Archer would kick Berserker's arse with no trouble at all. Minus Shirou, Archer's main goal in the Grail War would be the destruction of the holy grail and the prevention of the release of Angra Mainyu, as per his role as a Counter Guardian. So I see Archer beating Berserker as Saber did in Fate, eventually leading to a Fate style ending plus a detour under the temple to blast the Great Grail.
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***Shinji couldn't care less if Shirou is dead (''Sakura'', on the other hand, would, and Shinji might tell her that her sister had been there just to stir things up), and no, Taiga ''really'' can't find out what's going on. The Yakuza have precisely ''zero'' power over the Magic Association. As for who would have won the war, it's not stated anywhere. Rin would be in with a great chance, yes, but a lot depends on what Kotomine decides to do with Lancer and Gil, and whether Archer would beat Gil (and, no, Kotomine ''doesn't'' have a vested interest in Rin winning, he simply wants to give the Grail to someone who will use it (preferably unwisely...), and since Rin won't, he won't want to give it to her). However, people are ignoring Sakura here. With Shirou dead, it's quite possible that Zouken would be able to persuade her to fight in the war (because by winning she could use the Grail to revive Shirou), and that is even more likely given that it will allow her to get revenge on the people who killed her Sempai. If that happens, then she will turn into the shadow just like she did in HF, only she'll succumb more quickly since she's fighting of her own free will, and that would make ''her'' the likely winner. Also, Fate shows conclusively that Archer would lose to Berserker, and with Shirou dead (and Rin showing that she's going for the "true magus" approach by not reviving him), he would likely not ''want'' to defeat Berserker, since to do so would mean Ilya getting used as the Grail by Rin. It would likely come down to a matter of whether Sakura was activated or not. If she was, then she would probably turn dark pretty quickly, take down Berserker using her magic, capture Ilya and then attempt to summon the Grail to revive Shirou (only for Zouken to take her body). If she wasn't, then it would come down to which of the three battles (Gil vs. Archer, Gil vs. Berserker and Berserker vs. Archer) happen first. If it's Gil vs. Berserker, then the war would come down to Archer vs. Gil, the victor of which is not entirely clear (since it depends entirely on how seriously Gil takes Archer). If not, then Gil wins unless Archer vs. Gil comes first and Archer wins that, in which case ''Ilya'' wins due to Archer refusing to let her die.
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** Well, Shinji is directly responsible for Shirou being there that night, and Shirou was pretty much his only friend, so I'd imagine he'd react somehow. And, well, even if there is a cover up, Taiga has the connections to at least find out something is awfully weird about the whole thing. That's really what I was talking about.
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Gah. Keep using the wrong markups...
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** Rin and Archer would have won the war. I'm pretty sure that's actual WordOfGod (based on Rin being technically the most skilled Master, Archer being far stronger than he seems, and Kotomine having a vested interest in Rin winning). The real question is what would happen <i>when</i> they won...
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** Rin and Archer would have won the war. I'm pretty sure that's actual WordOfGod (based on Rin being technically the most skilled Master, Archer being far stronger than he seems, and Kotomine having a vested interest in Rin winning). The real question is what would happen <i>when</i> ''when'' they won...
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** Rin and Archer would have won the war. I'm pretty sure that's actual WordOfGod (based on Rin being technically the most skilled Master, Archer being far stronger than he seems, and Kotomine having a vested interest in Rin winning). The real question is what would happen <i>when</i> they won...
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** Well, it would likely give Zouken an easy way to activate Sakura (like he did in HF), or even to persuade her to fight of her own accord (to get the Grail in order to revive him), doubly so if she knew that Rin had been there and just left him to die (especially since Rin would be responsible for the cover-up). Archer would fight to win Rin the Grail and protect Ilya. Ilya would either decide that she had nothing to fight for any more or else would go after Lancer. Shinji wouldn't care less, except perhaps for what it would mean to Sakura (especially if she decided to take Rider back). Taiga would do precisely sod all (except cry), because she would not have the foggiest clue what was going on and the Yakuza are no match for the Magic Association ''anyway''. Likely it'd end up going a bit like HF, only with Sakura more willing and succombing to the corruption earlier, which is probably ''very'' bad news for Rin, especially if Sakura discovers that she had chosen not to save Shirou.
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* It's really more of a WhatIf thing, but it's been bugging me so I guess it goes here. What if Rin didn't revive Shirou? What would have happened then? I mean, I imagine Sakura would basically shatter (though what would happen next is kind of an unknown) and that Archer would... well, who knows what the hell would happen to him, Ilya and Shinji would probably react in some fashion, and Taiga, I have no clue what she'd do (she's basically a yakuza princess and if Shirou died there would be some hell to pay).
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*** This could be a funny WMG entry: "Archer commits mass murder elsewhere to save everyone at the end of UBW."
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** It also helps that he's not a garden-variety heroic spirit (if such isn't an oxymoron). Alaya has a bit of a vested interest in making sure its Counter Guardians are hard to kill, making him something of a human counterpart to [[{{Tsukihime}} Arcueid]].
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** That Independent Action stat really isn't just for show. Anyway. Servants are absurdly durable if their cores remain intact. Even after all that punishment, his core was undamaged, so he survived. It helps that Servants don't bleed to death. Presumably he has some method of restoring his mana, which he did offscreen.
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* Just how the hell did Archer get through UBW's ending? I know he's Shirou, MadeOfIron, {{Determinator}}, FutureBadass status, but not only did he use Rho Aius, a rain of Noble Phantasms to skewer Caster, another rain to cage Rin, invoking his Reality Marble after fighting Saber, and fighting Shirou, the dude was still alive and kicking after taking in Gil's GoB ''twice'' for long enough to skewer the Grail with a "heavy rain" of Noble Phantasms, and the headshot on Gil. What... the... ''fuck''?
