History Headscratchers / FateStayNight

** A Reality Marble is based on two things. One: The Focus, Inner Drive, Willpower and goal of the person involved. Two: The events a person experiences during their lifetime. Being a {{Determinator}} focused on a single mission, Shirou blatantly has plenty of the first. He's also driven himself to live up to his ideal whenever he can and thus has the experience. Someone like Tohsaka, despite being a superior Magus, simply doesn't have the strength of self nor a single ideal to focus on. Thus, she will likely never be able to summon a Reality Marble of any kind.

* Its likely that Archer as heroic spirit EMIYA did not exist until he won his timeline's Fifth War. So then what the hell did Rin summon in that war? EMIYA did not exist yet, and the timeline of events plays out similarly to Fate/Stay Night, therefore she had to have summoned 'something', so what was it? From process of elimination it has to be an archer-class servant as all the other servants had been summoned and EMIYA had to have summoned Saber.

** Not necessarily. Creator/{{Mamiko Noto}} has done guys before (see LightNovel/{{Full Metal Panic}}) so it's possible Bedeviere is just as {{Bishonen}} with a girly-sounding voice.

** Of course you don't have to have any interdependency if Tsukihime and ''VisualNovel/FateStayNight'' are set in entirely different continuities, but there's no evidence that they aren't. You're really missing the point about the frogs. Unlike ''LightNovel/TheGardenOfSinners'', which is a complete alternate continuity set in another dimension, any story about Archer's life would have to fit into the Nasuverse as a whole, since Archer's life is the possible future of Shirou. It's much better to leave it vague and thus leave the author's options open.

** Whenever Caster forces Saber to attack Shirou, Shirou notes that the wounds aren't healing like they normally do. Granted, in the dead end the wound ''is'' fatal, but Avalon has healed worse injuries than that one; remember that time Gilgamesh nearly cut him in half, or the time he got half his stomach sliced off? I suppose you could say that this is related to the broken contract, but the healing provided by Avalon is unrelated to the Servant/Master contract; it depends on Saber's proximity and magical energy. (See ''LightNovel/FateZero'', as well as the quick recovery Shirou has when Saber is watching his fight with Archer in UBW. Later in UBW, his wounds heal quickly before the battle with Gilgamesh as well; they don't point this out, though.) I assume it's related to the fact that Avalon only activates with Saber's magical energy, and if Excalibur is being used against it, it thinks that it'd probably not be a good idea to keep its host alive.

** Actually, his sword is called Enuma Elish, which is also the name of the Bablyonian story of creation. It's called anti-world because if you take the naming into account, it has enough power to create the world, and similarly, get rid of it. In ''LightNovel/FateZero'' it was kept under lock and key for a reason.

** By the way, this kind of pun isn't unique to Nasu or FSN. In ''Manga/DeathNote'', Light's name is written "moon" but pronounced "Light" and is presumably meant to mean both. The title of ''LightNovel/ACertainMagicalIndex'' writes Index with the kanji meaning "index" in Japanese, but pronounces it in English.

** Well, not much to be done there. Nasu just loves characters that blur the gender line, apparently. Case in point, [[LightNovel/TheGardenOfSinners Ryougi Shiki]]. Though, if that helps, I'm pretty sure the "harvesting sperm" thing didn't involve actual sexual intercourse. That wouldn't be Arturia's personality. To me, it seems more likely that Morgan's familiar would've taken the sperm from Arturia while she was asleep. Like succubi are sometimes described to do in the older myths...Or something. What bugs me more is that technically speaking, this makes Merlin indirectly responsible for Mordred's creation and therefore, Arturia's eventual death...

** When you say "later revealed" do you mean in the ''LightNovel/FateZero'' novels? If that's the case, then the only explanation available is a {{Retcon.}} If it's something from the visual novel, though... yeah I got nothing in that case.

** Considering the alternative at the time was near-certain death at the hands of Berserker, I think Saber would be willing to accept that idea. Yes, she is an honor-bound character but she's never been stupid, not even in LightNovel/FateZero where her {{Honor Before Reason}} tendencies really take a center stage. So no, I don't think she would be so obstinate in a "do or die" situation such as that.

** Kiritsugu's wish was to end all Human conflicts. The corrupted Grail went and showed him that it would have fulfilled his wish by [[KillEmAll killing all of humanity but Kiritsugu and Ilya]]. When faced with such a JackAssGenie, what would ''you'' have done?

* Its likely that Archer as heroic spirit EMIYA did not exist until he won his timeline's Fifth War, then what the hell did Rin summon in that war? EMIYA did not exist yet, and the timeline of events plays out similarly to Fate/Stay Night, so she had to have summoned 'something', so what was it?

''' This page contains spoilers.

** Well, all this ''[[CompletelyMissingThePoint was the entire point of this Assassin]]''--he was improperly summoned via a loophole to be linked to that particular land rather than a Master, which meant that an actual Heroic Spirit couldn't be summoned (think multiple layers of degradation in the process/requirements used). There ''was'' a Kojirou at some point in time and there ''was'' that particular technique, but neither were connected until some people used "[[AssPull creative licensing]]" to make him a WorthyOpponent to Musashi. He even admits that he's just a random nameless swordsman from history who had that name thrown together with him, so anything he does will simply go towards Kojirou's name. And yes, there is a very similar doubt (+ theory) about this in real life (probably where Nasu got the idea from, actually--I bet he'd be rather familiar with this stuff).

* Let's be honest. The whole reason he doesn't use it is because the writers gave a character an awesome one hit kill move and realized they wrote themselves into a hole. So instead of changing said ability they kept it but made every single excuse in the book to make it completely useless. The damn thing rewrites causality but hey if you have a good luck rank on your side then you'll be fine, nevermind that's basically the biggest cop out someone could possibly write for surviving such a thing. Then they gave Archer a shield to block its second form, decided to make Hercules' labors into extra lives (because lets face it the dude is severely broken even as a Berserker) and can't die the same way twice, Gil has every shield/disruptor to ever exist, Caster has a unlimited revive on her base, and Saber has luck. It's stupid, Saber should have died but then the story would be over so she didn't the end.

** Of course you don't have to have any interdependency if Tsukihime and ''VisualNovel/FateStayNight'' are set in entirely different continuities, but there's no evidence that they aren't. You're really missing the point about the frogs. Unlike ''LightNovel/KaraNoKyoukai'', which is a complete alternate continuity set in another dimension, any story about Archer's life would have to fit into the Nasuverse as a whole, since Archer's life is the possible future of Shirou. It's much better to leave it vague and thus leave the author's options open.

** Well, not much to be done there. Nasu just loves characters that blur the gender line, apparently. Case in point, [[LightNovel/KaraNoKyoukai Ryougi Shiki]]. Though, if that helps, I'm pretty sure the "harvesting sperm" thing didn't involve actual sexual intercourse. That wouldn't be Arturia's personality. To me, it seems more likely that Morgan's familiar would've taken the sperm from Arturia while she was asleep. Like succubi are sometimes described to do in the older myths...Or something. What bugs me more is that technically speaking, this makes Merlin indirectly responsible for Mordred's creation and therefore, Arturia's eventual death...

[[folder: Shirou and Shinji- WithFriendsLikeThese]]

[[folder: Heroic Spirit Future]]

* How in high hell was anyone able to buy that Saber was a man during her life? In the flashbacks, she was wearing a fucking ''dress'' for crying out loud! The inhabitants of Camelot would all have to have been either blind or had a severe mental illness to buy that Saber was a man.

*** Actually, Mordred was very well covered by her armor, ''Secret of Pedigree'', which later became a Noble Phantasm strong enough that even Rulers have a problem trying to discover some of her statistics, ''including gender''. The armor even made it so her ''own master'' didn't know her gender until she took it off. [[spoiler:Jack the Ripper couldn't tell right away that Mordred was female, and Ruler Shirou couldn't discern info either while she had the armor on]].

* Well, the ending of the Fate route. Shirou uses his command spell on Saber and together, they destroy the Holy Grail, like it was done ten years ago. Later, we get a shot of Arturia, after the battle in her own time, finally peacefully [[strike:falling asleep]] [[TearJerker dying]]...so, what happens next to her? Technically, she destroyed the Holy Grail, just like ten years ago, under the influence of a command spell. It's just that this time, she was willing to do it anyway. Does this nullify her contract? Or does willingly destroying it qualify as getting the Holy Grail for the contract, since she wasn't stuck anymore in time? But now, what's going to happen to her? Does her part of the contract appear fulfilled, so she'll now be a normal Heroic Spirit, like all the others? (She'd also keep her memories of her encounter with Shirou, etc., since she was technically alive all the time, no?) If so, couldn't Shirou just train magic like crazy and then recreate Avalon to summon the girl he loves again? He should be able to find SOME way to keep her magical thirst sustained if he tries hard enough...if Arturia doesn't become a Heroic Spirit, what happens to her soul, then? Does it go to Avalon? Or simply to whatever the place is called the souls of the dead go to in the {{Franchise/Nasuverse}}, if there is one? Her soul isn't simply going to vanish, is it?

** But she ''was'' in the picture in Fate. [[{{Dissimile}} And when I say "picture", I mean "Saber's vagina".]] She was probably thinking like Shirou, that being forced into having sex with your love interest is awkward. Having a MateOrDie situation with Saber, a neutral friend, was bearable, so she could as well learn to enjoy it, but she '''really, really, really'' didn't want to have sex with Shirou in this way.

** She does. She was watching the same scene as Sakura was, at the same time, and fell in love with him in just the same way (incidentally, he was attempting to jump a high-jump pole that was set ''way'' too high for him). But, she doesn't rely on him in the same way as Sakura does, because her life doesn't suck anywhere ''near'' as much. As for Sakura becoming jealous, remember that, at that point, she's being ''heavily'' influenced by [[spoiler:Angra Mainyu]].
** She was winding him up, possibly in conjunction with a hint of a SecretTestOfCharacter. She knew full well that he wouldn't do it, and even if ''he'' agreed, Saber wouldn't. But, she knew the sort of response it would get (and, at this point, she was still telling herself that they would end up as enemies eventually anyway, IIRC), so she decided to have a bit of fun. Even if it genuinely ''was'' the only option, I don't think Rin would actually have condoned it.

** It could be that due to Shirou's character development in HF, he is incapable of following the superhero ideal to the Counter Guardian ending; therefore, Archer would not know what is going on and be able to [[PeggySue use his knowledge to end it quickly.]]

** To write out Archer's life is to basically open up an entire new timeline. That would be far too much trouble for what it's worth. Imagine, for example, if Archer's story expanded the {{Franchise/Nasuverse}} timeline by fifty years. Now, imagine if ''Tsukihime 2'' is released afterwards, and set ten years after the current timeline's present, and happens to involve an invasion of dragons that completely changes the political landscape of the Church and Mage Institute. Now, you'd then have to fit an explanation of why this invasion of dragons doesn't occur in Archer's timeline, which would then cause a snowball effect as you have to explain why everything else that then happens after ''Tsukihime 2'' in the main timeline doesn't happen in Archer's timeline. Basically, you've opened up an entire new continuity. It's different for games with multiple routes like ''Fate'' or ''Tsukihime'', since branching events explain why the villains of each route are different and explanations in each route also expand upon events that happened in the other routes. You wouldn't have this interdependency if you wrote a light novel about Archer's life, you'd have a massive ContinuitySnarl and massive restrictions on the changes you could bring to the main Nasuverse timeline. Imagine if Heaven's Feel had Type Mercury show up for no reason and blow everything up, and then Shirou had to learn the mystic ways of frogs to defeat it. The question would then be, "Why doesn't the mystic ways of frogs come up in other routes''?
** First of all, the initial theory about interdependency is off. Parallel dimensions, remember? For all we know, the events of ''Tsukihime'' never happened in Fate, UBW, or HF, and it doesn't change a thing. Second of all, infinite parallel dimensions means that there is a dimension where everything is exactly like Heaven's Feel except that ORT turns up out of nowhere and requires Shirou to defeat it with the mystical art of frogs.

* Just how the hell did Archer get through UBW's ending? I know he's Shirou, MadeOfIron, {{Determinator}}, FutureBadass status, but not only did he use Rho Aius, a rain of Noble Phantasms to skewer Caster, another rain to cage Rin, invoking his Reality Marble after fighting Saber, and fighting Shirou, the dude was still alive and kicking after taking in Gil's [=GoB=] ''twice'' for long enough to skewer the Grail with a "heavy rain" of Noble Phantasms, and the headshot on Gil. What... the... ''fuck''?

* Is it just me or would Sargon of Akkad have worked much better than Gilgamesh? In the myths, Gilgamesh is all about the quest for immortality, the dickishness of gods, [[HoYay friendship]], the civilizing influence of prostitutes, and the fact that you sort of have to come to terms with all of these things, whereas Gilly in FSN is all about being the ruler of all things, and thus a colossal {{Jerkass}}. Sargon was, just like Gilgamesh, a historical figure, but he was also the "First conqueror", general culture-hero and in general seems to be a far better fit for the game than Gilgamesh.
** Short answer: Who? Long answer: Gil's all about killing people, not ruling them (not considering most of the world worthwhile, especially after Enkidu's death); he's a darwinist, not a conqueror. He's a better fit because he's still the oldest hero, and is all about the supernatural connections. As for storywise, I wouldn't doubt that Sargon is a Heroic Spirit in the {{Franchise/Nasuverse}}, but his legacy is less well-known (though admittedly, how many people know Diarmuid Ua Duibhne?), and he has less of a reason to be summoned than the huge conqueror hero, Iskander, who ''still'' wants to conquer the world.

** The full plate makes perfect sense. The Sumerians invented that shit 4000 years ago, a few hundred years after Gil´s death.

** A ''magic'' F-15. Incidentally, Gil doesn't have ''every'' weapon in the world. He just has weapons that existed in his time. This is why he doesn't have Excalibur, since Excalibur was constructed by Earth's fairies after his death. Incidentally, the {{Franchise/Nasuverse}} is an AlternateUniverse. Gil at one point states that (paraphrased) "the appearance is different, but the basic principles remain the same", indicating that Babylon was apparently ''just as advanced'', if in a different fashion, as the modern age.
** I believe he actually has the prototype for Excalibur. I think it was gram, a sword that was stuck in a tree or something like that.

---> ''"It's the law." Archer replied immediately. "The law I set down as the king." "Hm." Rider seemed to have understood his words, and took a deep sigh. "Such a perfect king, able to stick to the laws he set down himself."''

** In the {{Franchise/Nasuverse}}, the World doesn't just refer to the planetary body, it refers to the set of rules that reality on Earth runs on. On Earth, one plus one equals two, black is black and white is white. The World is basically just the full-scale version of the Reality Marbles that certain beings in the Nasuverse can manifest. Type Mercury, the Ultimate Being from Mercury, can override this World with his own Mercurial World, turning everything crystalline, and in that World, the rules are different. Ea's destructive force comes from the fact that it twists space and time to obliterate its target, instead of just using the rules of the World to destroy things like, say, somebody with the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception. That is probably why it's called anti-''World''; it breaks the fabric the World is made from. I imagine Type Mercury might be vulnerable to Ea, though probably capable of bringing just as much force to bear.

** It probably wouldn't have been useful in very many situations. Most of the time she's acting independently, so she has a vested interest in ''not'' turning everyone she sees to stone (her Bloodfort probably wouldn't work on statues). As for the other times, there's always the risk that her Master would come in her field of vision during a fight (he usually ''was'' nearby). Also, though she might be able to pick off other Masters that way, Servants are another matter. [[strike:At least three Servants (Saber, Lancer, and Berserker) are definitely strong enough to resist her eyes, and it ''might'' not work on the others, either.]]
** Huh...actually, even the resistant servants would be weaker, so scratch that idea.

** In regards to keeping the grail vessel hidden, I believe that was the Einzberns' plan. The Fate Zero CD drama which focuses on Kiritsugu's first meeting with the Einzberns, has Acht asking Kiritsugu to be the bodyguard for the grail vessel aka Irisviel, this along with Irisviel's lack of fighting skills and the Einzbern's giving Kiritsugu, the healing shealth Avalon, makes me believe that the original plan was for Irisviel to guard Irisviel as she stayed hidden, attacking anyone who discovered her location while Saber equipped with Avalon engaged the enemy Servants and Masters. Unfortunately, Kiritsugu derailed from the plan by giving Avalon to Irisviel to keep her functional and having her act as Saber's decoy master thus exposing her while he and Maiya went around sniping the other Masters. The same thing could be applied to Ilya in Fate/Stay Night. The Einzberns could have drilled it into Ilya's head to seclude herself in the castle with Heracles as a bodyguard while the war raged which is why she never ventures outside the castle in UBW after meeting with Shiro. In Fate and Heaven's Feel, Ilya's interest in Shiro becomes piqued after seeing the latter TakeTheBullet for Saber against Berserker which causes her to explore Misaki City to seek him out. Ironically, [[spoiler: its in UBW where she stays secluded that she dies early in the route.]]

** From a historical perspective, he's not enough of a legendary character and not quite enough of a historical character. There are just enough discrepancies in accounts of him for the idea of Kojirou being fictional to be plausible. From a dramatic perspective, it makes Assassin (a nameless spirit with only three weeks of life) that much more of a tragic character... and also more of a badass (he comes up with a Noble Phantasm-level technique ''on his own'', while basically standing around bored). On another note, if my [[WMG/FateStayNight guess]] is correct, there actually was ''a'' Sasaki Kojirou in the {{Franchise/Nasuverse}}, since his sword, Monohoshizao, existed...he just wasn't ''the'' Sasaki Kojirou, Musashi Miyamoto's legendary rival.

* Now, this one was probably stated somewhere, but I don't remember clearly and I'm not sure if it was ever made clear, either. So the trick behind the Grail is that it's powered by the souls of the Servants it absorbs. But what happens after a wish is made? Are the Servant's souls consumed by the need for magical power or are they set free again, to return to the Throne of Heroes? I assume they get freed either way if the Grail is destroyed, though?

* An odd inconsistency in Shirou's projections of Rho Aias. I eventually learned that he ''did'' project Rho Aias in UBW - Side Material says that Archer did...but Nasu eventually clarified that there were ''two'' instances (Archer projected the RA that protected Shirou from Enuma Elish, while Shirou did the one that held off the Gate of Babylon barrage). However, why did UBW Shirou's Rho Aias have all seven "petals?" The four-petal version was kind of a trademark; it's the one he uses in Heaven's Feel (when he was literally drawing on Archer's power) and Hollow Ataraxia (I'm told). What was the difference?

** Because Saber is still contracted to Shirou. Rin was only able to pull it off in Unlimited Blade Works because [[spoiler:the contract was broken with Rule Breaker]].

[[folder: Summoning Angra Mainyu]]

[[folder: Consuming servants]]

[[folder: Kotomine saying the Einzbern aren't insane and are insane]]

* Is it just me or would Sargon of Akkad have worked much better than Gilgamesh? In the myths, Gilgamesh is all about the quest for immortality, the dickishness of gods, [[HoYay friendship]], the [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop civilizing influence of prostitutes]], and the fact that you sort of have to come to terms with all of these things, whereas Gilly in FSN is all about being the ruler of all things, and thus a colossal {{Jerkass}}. Sargon was, just like Gilgamesh, a historical figure, but he was also the "First conqueror", general culture-hero and in general seems to be a far better fit for the game than Gilgamesh.