History Headscratchers / EpicMickey

** Because the Phantom Blot '''was''' lame. Really, his whole guise was akin to a lame [[ScoobyDooHoax Scooby Doo villain]] where all he did was put on a black sheet, and steal one type of camera. [[spoiler:You find out at the end it was because he was actually smuggling weapons information, but even still, not that threatening]]. And then in later uses from WesternAnimation/HouseOfMouse, his main objectives were stealing everyone's color and money. He was an interesting thief, but definitely not EpicMickey malicious or threatening. The EldritchAbomination from paint aspect is a much more interesting interpretation of the character.

** You seem to be forgetting that even though Warren Spector is making this game, Disney still controls all final creative decisions on what can and can not be allowed. They still refuse to allow this video to go on Blu Ray or DVD, so I don't see why they would feel the need to make an exception for this game. Plus, the UnfortunateImplications of the film are simply too high for it to work in EpicMickey (Remember that the characters were meant to represent a cultural bias of slaves against slave owners. Even if they made Br'er Rabbit a helper of sorts, I don't see how they could possibly include Br'er Fox or Br'er Bear in it while still maintaining their original personalities ''and'' not seeming culturally racist).

** This actually makes some sense. The area was to be based on Alice's Curious Labyrinth at Disneyland Paris, so it would be based on an unfamiliar attraction for most of the audience. And because EpicMickey's entire conceit is twisting its setting into a Burtonesque reimagining of the original, it could very easily lead to the assumption that this area is based on the new movie that many people have seen, rather than what it actually is about.

[[folder: Disney/SongOfTheSouth isn't be in the game.]]
* Why, oh WHY couldn't they put at least ''one'' reference to Disney/SongOfTheSouth?

*** You're ignoring the fact that Disney/SongOfTheSouth isn't actually racist- it's just perceived that way. All of the ideas that it is racist are misconceptions. It's not actually any more racist than all of the other classic Disney films-no, the characters are not slaves, no, racism does not appear in the story, yes, you can play clips from it out of context to make them sound racist, no, they are not racist in context.

** Not that this has anything to do with the Disney-verse (except via ''Film/WhoFramedRogerRabbit)'', but the ''WesternAnimation/LooneyTunes'' canon seems to imply that the lines are really, ''really'' blurred for the characters involved. They're thrust into crazy situations by whoever's holding the brush, and their stardom simply depends on how they handle the situations. Animator Creator/BobClampett attributed WesternAnimation/BugsBunny's success over his foes to the fact that he was GenreSavvy enough to read the script in advance.

** Perhaps [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Oswald]] doesn't know that it was because of Mintz. He may think that [[WaltDisney his father]] just gave up on him and instead went with the mouse. Or he might know that it was because of Mintz and that Walt didn't stick up for him. Either way, he would be taking out his rage on his [[MickeyMouse little brother]].
** Because, at this point, [[MickeyMouse Mickey's]] the one who created the Phantom Blot out of playfulness and ended up destroying the world for forgotten toons.
*** But it was specifically stated before that mess happened, [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Oswald]] was still angry and jealous of his brother's fame.

*** [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Ozzie]] didn't know that [[MickeyMouse Mickey]] caused the disaster; it was after TheReveal that the [[ManBehindtheMan bigger monster]], NOT the smaller one that abducted [[MickeyMouse Mickey]], was trapped in the giant bottle on Mickeyjunk Mountain. After [[MickeyMouse Mickey]] confesses, well, [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit he]] gets angrier (and releases the aforementioned bigger Blot by accident.)

* Jealousy and resentment are seldom rational; it's the same with [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Ozzie's]] case.

*** That was just the first story he appeared in, though. Most later stories with him as the villain tended to scrap the aspect of the character that he was unwilling to kill [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Mickey]] hands on, made him wear the black cloak all the time instead of just as a disguise, and escalated his ambitions into outright [[TakeOverTheWorld World Domination]]. I always thought he was a cool villain, especially since [[MickeyMouse Mickey]] was more typically pitted against incompetent thugs like Pete. I'm not necessary against the "ink monster" reimagining, though. I just don't like that the Blot we've seen so far seems to be little more than a mindless monster rather than the DiabolicalMastermind he should be.

[[folder: Why is [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Oswald]] afraid of [[MickeyMouse Mickey]]?]]
* In the opening cinematic, it seems that [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Oswald]] is, instead of hating [[MickeyMouse Mickey]] to death, actually afraid of [[MickeyMouse Mickey]]. What gives?

*** Well, [[MickeyMouse Mickey]] was holding a paintbrush, which can shoot thinner. [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Oswald]] was probably afraid [[MickeyMouse Mickey]] would erase him on the spot, just like the thinner did when an entire bottle of it crashed, bringing the tidal wave in the "Mean Street" flashback.
*** Think of it this way- [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Oswald]] probably isn't that familiar with [[MickeyMouse Mickey]]. He's been basically banished from the Wasteland (banished may not be the best word- but he's nixed from being ruler thanks to the Blot and the Mad Doctor) and probably scared and confused. He's not vengeful of [[MickeyMouse Mickey]] because he doesn't know that [[MickeyMouse Mickey]] created the mess, and that he stole ABSOLUTELY everything from him. He's probably going to end up vengeful once he gets more of the story (the idea that the Blot is making him a pawn- though I suspect that's the Mad Doctor's doing) and the second half of the game is redeeming him and saving Wasteland.
*** The Above ''would'' be true if it weren't for the fact that [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Oswald]] ''was'' aware of [[MickeyMouse Mickey's]] popularity. I dunno about him knowing that Mickey Created the Phantom Blot, but still.
*** [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Oswald]] was only afraid of [[MickeyMouse Mickey]] in that opening cutscene, but in a later cutscene, he makes himself known to [[MickeyMouse Mickey]] and Gus, confronting the mouse in jealousy over his success.

* You have facts wrong. None of the Sensational Six Disney character are in the wasteland - Daisy, [[WesternAnimation/DonaldDuck Donald]], and Goofy are all robot duplicates. Minnie doesn't appear in the game ''at all'' (aside from her image on trashed merchandise) and neither does Pluto, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Horace Horsecollar and Clarabelle Cow's only appearance in DECADES in animated form was the fairly recent (and not exactly world-changing) ''WesternAnimation/HouseOfMouse'' as minor recurring characters. But they're not ''loved'', they've never had their own properties, and outside of the comics most people ''don't remember them''. [[MickeyMouse Mickey]], [[DonaldDuck Donald]], Goofy, and even Pluto have all had either their own television series, a long series of theatrical shots, or both - and Minnie and Daisy, as love interests are able to ride on their coat-tails. Hence, Clarabell and Horace just aren't remembered well these days. The only valid point is Pete - they try to justify it by saying it's because his peg leg was discarded in his design, but that's just bullshit - '''Pete (despite their lame justifications) doesn't belong in the Wasteland''', and it's just clearly uncreative that he's there and appears in so many different forms. As for Smee and Hook - Smee is a discarded prototype design and Captain Hook is a robot built to keep Smee company, just like Daisy, [[DonaldDuck Donald]], and Goofy. If anything, my complaint with the game so far is that they've used generic non-existent characters as [=NPCs=] for shopowners when there are a gaggle of other forgotten Disney characters not in the game at all - such as Peter Pig, Humprhey, Ranger Woodlore, and Clara Cluck, as well as [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Oswald's]] other supporting cast members of Fanny and Homer that they could have used instead of generic reskins of Goofy, Clarabelle, and Horace.

** The Pete on main street is not Big Pete from Modern day Creator/{{Disney}}, but is Pegleg Pete that was actually an antagonist in several Oswald cartoons and early Creator/{{Disney}} cartoons (Pete is actually the only character Creator/{{Disney}} kept and is the oldest currently used character, even older than Franchise/MickeyMouse ''and'' OswaldTheLuckyRabbit.)

** [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Oswald's]] supporting cast, there is one character in the game: Ortensia. If any more of them were around, [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Oswald]] wouldn't feel so bitter and unloved. He had Ortensia, and then [[spoiler:he lost her to the Blot]], thus his characterization.

* Okay, so in the "behind the scenes" video from E3 a few months back, we have the [[BigBad Phantom Blot]] in a cloak, much like his older incarnations, doing the failed heart-extracting. But in the official opening released, not only is the Phantom Blot in his inky form from his creation by [[MickeyMouse Mickey]], but it's the Mad Doctor doing the experimenting! Why the change? Why was he in a cloak?

* If [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Oswald]] [[strike:hates]] [[TheResenter resents]] [[MickeyMouse Mickey]], why does he have most of these 2D levels throughout the Wasteland based on [[MickeyMouse Mickey's]] cartoons?
* [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Oswald]] doesn't hate [[MickeyMouse Mickey]] as much as he is envious of him. He wants [[MickeyMouse Mickey's]] life, and everything in it. He wants all the friends, fame, AND all of his settings.

* Where in the hell did it come from? The sentence and the idea of [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Oswald]] being all.... inky.
** /co/ got the notion of [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Oswald]] being the primary villain of the game from those early plot leaks that kinda fudged the details, plus the motivation that he wishes he was MickeyMouse created a monster.

[[folder: Why does Oswald]] hate Mickey so much?]]

** Because the Phantom Blot '''was''' lame. Really, his whole guise was akin to a lame [[ScoobyDooHoax Scooby Doo villain]] where all he did was put on a black sheet, and steal one type of camera. [[spoiler:You find out at the end it was because he was actually smuggling weapons information, but even still, not that threatening]]. And then in later uses from HouseOfMouse, his main objectives were stealing everyone's color and money. He was an interesting thief, but definitely not EpicMickey malicious or threatening. The EldritchAbomination from paint aspect is a much more interesting interpretation of the character.

* What exactly counts as a "Rejected Disney Character"? Because a lot of the characters that Warren mentions, like Clarabelle Cow and Horace Horsecollar, ''did'' star in later Mickey Mouse shows (especially in HouseOfMouse). How come we also don't see early Mickey Mouse designs in there either (like the insane one from Plane Crazy)?

** But even ''still'', Horace Horsecollar? Clarabelle Cow? '''PETE and Daisy Duck'''? They've been reused constantly throughout Disney's history, especially in HouseOfMouse and KingdomHearts, so why are they in the wasteland? They're pretty much the least obscure characters there!

** It makes more sense if you just consider that Warren Spector was not aware of HouseOfMouse, which isn't exactly unlikely, since that's the only place Horace and Clarabelle have been used in decades outside of comic books. And even then, WesternAnimation/HouseOfMouse wasn't popular or influential enough to re-integrate Horace and Clarabelle into Mickey's gang of friends in the public consciousness. The old Mickey design is probably used because Mickey's flanderization into a bland everyman without a personality is associated with his change in eye design from two dots to the more detailed eyes and pink skin pigment.

** More that said film was an adaptation of the PrydainChronicles series of books by Lloyd Alexander. The characters in it, from Gurgi all the way through to the Horned King, belong to the original author, and so are not Disney characters. (This is also part of why Disney quietly omits the film as often as possible -- royalties go to the estate of Lloyd Alexander, cutting Disney's notoriously stretched budget.)

[[folder: Why does [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Oswald]] hate [[MickeyMouse Mickey]] so much?]]

[[/folder]]

[[WMG: Why does [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Oswald]] hate [[MickeyMouse Mickey]] so much?]]

[[WMG: The Original Phantom Blot wasn't lame.]]

[[WMG: Disney/SongOfTheSouth won't be in the game.]]

[[WMG: [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Oswald]] afraid of [[MickeyMouse Mickey]]?]]
* Okay, I ''know'' the game's not out yet, but from the cinematics that have been released, it seems that [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Oswald]] is, instead of hating [[MickeyMouse Mickey]] to death, actually afraid of [[MickeyMouse Mickey]]. What gives?

[[WMG: "Epic" Mickey should have been better named.]]

[[WMG: Wastelander Qualifications]]
* What exactly counts as a "Rejected Disney Character"? Because a lot of the characters that Warren mentions, like Clarabelle Cow and Horace Horsecollar, ''did'' star in later Mickey Mouse shows (especially in HouseOfMouse). Also why is Minnie in the Wasteland- she's certainly not rejected by any means. How come we also don't see early Mickey Mouse designs in there either (like the insane one from Plane Crazy)?

* You have facts wrong. None of the Sensational Six Disney character are in the wasteland - Daisy, [[DonaldDuck Donald]], and Goofy are all robot duplicates. Minnie doesn't appear in the game ''at all'' (aside from her image on trashed merchandise) and neither does Pluto, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Horace Horsecollar and Clarabelle Cow's only appearance in DECADES in animated form was the fairly recent (and not exactly world-changing) HouseOfMouse as minor recurring characters. But they're not ''loved'', they've never had their own properties, and outside of the comics most people ''don't remember them''. [[MickeyMouse Mickey]], [[DonaldDuck Donald]], Goofy, and even Pluto have all had either their own television series, a long series of theatrical shots, or both - and Minnie and Daisy, as love interests are able to ride on their coat-tails. Hence, Clarabell and Horace just aren't remembered well these days. The only valid point is Pete - they try to justify it by saying it's because his peg leg was discarded in his design, but that's just bullshit - '''Pete (despite their lame justifications) doesn't belong in the Wasteland''', and it's just clearly uncreative that he's there and appears in so many different forms. As for Smee and Hook - Smee is a discarded prototype design and Captain Hook is a robot built to keep Smee company, just like Daisy, [[DonaldDuck Donald]], and Goofy. If anything, my complaint with the game so far is that they've used generic non-existent characters as [=NPCs=] for shopowners when there are a gaggle of other forgotten Disney characters not in the game at all - such as Peter Pig, Humprhey, Ranger Woodlore, and Clara Cluck, as well as [[OswaldtheLuckyRabbit Oswald's]] other supporting cast members of Fanny and Homer that they could have used instead of generic reskins of Goofy, Clarabelle, and Horace.

[[WMG: KingdomHearts is NOT EpicMickey]]

[[WMG: Cloaked Blot?]]

[[WMG: The entire KILL THE MOUSE TAKE HIS HOUSE fad.]]

[[WMG: What the hell was the Blot trying to do?]]

*** Only the Blot's '''arm''' actually makes it out of the Wasteland and stretches through to Mickey's room. The Blot himself can't get out of the Wasteland all the way unless he has Mickey's heart.

[[WMG: Destruction of Wasteland]]

** A quote from the Graphic Novel version (which fixes a few plot holes while introducing a major one, see the main page) has a quote in the end, with Yen Sid telling Mickey that he allowed the results of Mickey to remain in the Wasteland so that Mickey could come back and fix his own mess. Yen Sid also comments it took Mickey "far too long", implying he didn't expect that decades would pass for the Blot to continue to destroy Wasteland until Mickey would defeat it.

[[WMG: Different versions of characters treated as separate characters]]

** It could be that updates on the ''appearance'' of characters are the same character, but different versions of the character that couldn't really be considered "updates" are different (like the Petes with peg legs and the Petes without them, and of course Petetronic who is a [[{{Tron}} program.]])
** The way I see it, is because Mickey is also subject to the weird rules, but a special case on his own. There are several incarnations of Mickey Mouse, but since they are all insanely popular, none of them have ended up in Wasteland. The Mickey that we see in Epic Mickey is from after the shorts of Clarabelle and Horace, probably from the time when Mickey, Donald and Goofy were a PowerTrio, with the older Mickeys and modern ones living on different places. That's why this Mickey doesn't recognize them: He never worked with them in the first place.
** It makes more sense if you just consider that Warren Spector was not aware of HouseOfMouse, which isn't exactly unlikely, since that's the only place Horace and Clarabell have been used in decades outside of comic books. And even then, HouseOfMouse wasn't popular or influential enough to re-integrate Horace and Clarabelle into Mickey's gang of friends in the public consciousness. The old Mickey design is probably used because Mickey's flanderization into a bland everyman without a personality is associated with his change in eye design from two dots to the more detailed eyes and pink skin pigment.

** Maybe Epic Mickey simply takes place ''before'' HouseOfMouse? That might even be one reason why the game only references Disney movies up to Disney/TheJungleBook, while HouseOfMouse features characters from later movies as well.

[[WMG: The fact that there is only one ending]]

[[WMG: This game will have to ignore its own existence if it wants to have a sequel.]]

[[WMG: Why no Fifinella?]]

** Hopeful answer: They're saving the fifinella for the sequel.

[[WMG: Why was an Alice in Wonderland themed world dropped as to not compete with the Tim Burton Movie but Tron stuff added to the game when a new movie based off Tron came out around the time Epic Mickey was released or at least close to it's release?]]
* I get that Warren and the team said that they dropped the Alice in Wonderland themed stuff as to not compete with the Tim Burton film but if they didn't want to compete or confuse people with a new Alice in Wonderland film coming out shouldn't they have dropped the Tron stuff with a brand new Tron movie coming out as well for the same reasons? I mean did Warren and the team think Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland would be better than what they had planned but assume the new Tron movie be not as good. Personally I think both elements should have been dropped or at least brought back the Alice in Wonderland World if Tron stuff was going to be added to the game with a new movie of it coming out.

[[WMG: Do the toons consider the shorts they started in to be acting gigs, or their actual life?]]

* The Bunny Kids eat splatters. How is ''eating them alive'' any better than melting them with thinner?

*** [[FridgeBrilliance Hook is an audioanimatronic because the real one hasn't been forgotten, thanks to the Disney Villians canon. Henchmen aren't included.]]

[[WMG: SongOfTheSouth won't be in the game.]]
* Why, oh WHY couldn't they put at least ''one'' reference to SongOfTheSouth?

***** You're ignoring the fact that SongOfTheSouth isn't actually racist- it's just perceived that way. All of the ideas that it is racist are misconceptions. It's not actually any more racist than all of the other classic Disney films-no, the characters are not slaves, no, racism does not appear in the story, yes, you can play clips from it out of context to make them sound racist, no, they are not racist in context.

*** {{Disney}} ones do, anyway. Toons from other companies tend to make fourth wall-breaking jokes all the time as per RuleOfFunny.

** Point of order! Humphrey is not forgotten. He is a favourite among {{Disney}} employees, and has had a starring role in a few of the more recent cartoons. Ranger Woodlore would probably be out of place without Humphrey (that, and there is no Wasteland version of Frontierland where the two would fit in). Peter Pig had concept art for the game and must've been cut at some point. And Clara Cluck should probably fall under the same logic that includes Horace and Clarabelle, but you can't win 'em all.
** The Pete on main street is not Big Pete from Modern day {{Disney}}, but is Pegleg Pete that was actually an antagonist in several Oswald cartoons and early {{Disney}} cartoons (Pete is actually the only character {{Disney}} kept and is the oldest currently used character, even older than MickeyMouse ''and'' OswaldTheLuckyRabbit.)
*** When they first meet on Main Street, [[MickeyMouse Mickey]] even asks why Pete is in the Wasteland. Pete responds that there's lots of Petes.

** Or they're copies of the game someone lost and forgot about. Somewhere in Wasteland, there's a pile of orphaned {{Disney}} related socks.

*** Frankly, this game feels more like a DarkerAndEdgier MickeyMania than anything else (you know, the Genesis game that was about Mickey revisiting the settings of his most famous cartoons)...

** Not that this has anything to do with the Disney-verse (except via ''Film/WhoFramedRogerRabbit)'', but the ''WesternAnimation/LooneyTunes'' canon seems to imply that the lines are really, ''really'' blurred for the characters involved. They're thrust into crazy situations by whoever's holding the brush, and their stardom simply depends on how they handle the situations. Animator Creator/BobClampett attributed BugsBunny's success over his foes to the fact that he was GenreSavvy enough to read the script in advance.

* Should characters & elements from [[TheBlackCauldron The Black Cauldron]] be in Wasteland? That hasn't just been forgotten by the public, but by Disney themselves. Is that what stopped it from being included?

* And for even more CowboyBebopAtHisComputer research, people are confusing the "Shadow Blot" (they renamed the Phantom Blot during development for some reason) for [[TheNightmareBeforeChristmas Oogie Boogie]]. Um... how many people are failing to take ten seconds of internet research for the characters, and to realize that Touchstone is NOT working on the game?

** Not that this has anything to do with the Disney-verse (except via ''Film/WhoFramedRogerRabbit)'', but the ''WesternAnimation/LooneyTunes'' canon seems to imply that the lines are really, ''really'' blurred for the characters involved. They're thrust into crazy situations by whoever's holding the brush, and their stardom simply depends on how they handle the situations. Animator BobClampett attributed BugsBunny's success over his foes to the fact that he was GenreSavvy enough to read the script in advance.

** "There's liquid-spraying" < You just answered your own question. This game's paint/thinner spraying mechanic looks very similar to Mario's water spraying mechanic in Sunshine. It doesn't matter if the liquid Mickey uses is said to be paint and thinner rather than water; in the end, both characters' main way of fighting enemies is spraying liquid at them. An NO, you can't really play a evil path in Epic Mickey.

** Touchstone is a part of Disney. It's used for non-kid-friendly stuff that the main Disney label would look rather... out-of-place on.

[[WMG: Why are they so worried about the debris in Dark Beauty Castle?]]
Oswald got crushed by that stroller in the beginning and he was perfectly fine.

[[WMG:If the gag factory is shut down, as the dog says when he asks you to thin it out, why does a Gremlin need to live there and take care of it?]]
I'd assume they simply reopened it between games, but why else would Prescott be hanging around there in the first one?

I'd assume they simply reopened it between games, but why else would Prescott be hanging around there?

** It's quicker and easier for the player, and it gives Oswald one less mouth to feed. I don't remember anyone ever saying it was the better option ''for the splatters''.

Actually, even if it wasn't shut down why would they need a Gremlin there? It must be pretty important, considering how quickly a replacement was sent.

* If the gag factory is shut down, as the dog says when he asks you to thin it out, why does a Gremlin need to live there and take care of it? Actually, even if it wasn't shut down why would they need a Gremlin there?

[[WMG: Gremlins]]
What are they? I know a few Disney fans (huge Disney fans) who say they've never heard of them before, and they don't get an introduction in the game (Gus just pops in and decides to risk his life to save Mickey), so what's up with them? Are they from Disney? If not why are they there? Why don't we good a proper introduction to these guys (I don't think Gus even tells you his name)?
** The gremlins were ''supposed'' to be used in a war-time cartoon for Disney a long while back, but it never ended up happening. The reason that they become such central characters is probably to demonstrate just how much rough draft characters impact the world of The Wasteland. The reason they don't get a good explanation as to who they are... well, even OSWALD didn't get a very concrete explanation as to why he was forgotten. The game mostly limited it to ''"We were all forgotten for some reason, don't question it, onto the next boss now"''. It was just easier than going into detail about void contracts and poor budgets from some animation studio in the 1930's.
*** [[http://jimhillmedia.com/editor_in_chief1/b/jim_hill/archive/2006/10/12/6176.aspx Also, here's some info on the Gremlins.]]