History Headscratchers / Dune2021

* Shields in the novels are implied to be impregnable to such an extent that it is a waste of effort to shoot ranged weapons at foot soldiers - conventional artillery is only used to seal troops inside caves by demolishing the entrances. The film portrays shields as much more susceptible, e.g.: a thrown sword will bounce off a shield but still force the person inside the shield back (so some kinetic energy is transferred); shields can be penetrated by slow-falling bombs in a matter of seconds; and shields can be shorted out by a single hit from a conventional projectile, as seen when Duncan steals the ornithopter. Any of these changes would mean that simply shooting at infantry would be quite effective even with the film-version shields up, as they would still be knocked of their feet or have their shields shorted out.

** A bullet actually doesn't have much more kinetic energy than a strong punch, it's lethal because it concentrates all that force down to a tiny point. It's quite reasonable that a shield can absorb several bullet hits in a row with minimal effect, but can be overwhelmed by being hit with sufficient force and mass.

!!''Dune: Part One'':

!!''Dune: Part Two'':

[[folder:Chani and Paul timeline]]

* In the film's ending, a certain deviation from the book's plot risks causing issues for Villeneuve's project of making a sequel based on ''Literature/DuneMessiah''. [[spoiler:In this film, Chani breaks up with Paul when he accepts to marry Princess Irulan once he seizes the imperial throne. In the book, she doesn't and remains his main concubine (basically being his official wife in all but name). Paul and Chani still being together a decade later is very important in the sequel's events (notably, her death in childbirth is the last straw who eventually breaks Paul's mind and causes him to go in exile at the novel's end). Also Paul and Chani's breakup would also completely wreck the timeline for hypothetical sequels based on later books: the protagonists of ''Literature/ChildrenOfDune'' -- the sequel of ''Dune Messiah'' -- are Paul and Chani's twin children born during the events of ''Dune Messiah'', and them not existing would prevent the events of ''Children of Dune'''s own sequels to be possible.]]
** [[spoiler:It's possible that Chani and Paul may be reconciled in the future, as Paul does say to Jessica that he has 'seen' that Chani will come to understand; albeit Paul's visions sometimes don't come to pass. It would add extra weight to Paul's despair if, after having gotten back together with her after a few agonizing years apart, he then loses her forever.]]
** It's probably appropriate to point out that while it's obscured by the dark and ShouldersUpNudity, there's a scene showing [[spoiler:Paul and Chani having had sex already--and while it's not commented upon, it's not outside the reason Chani's unaware she's already conceived the twins. The fact that her last conversation with Jessica implies Chani still plays a part in all this--apart from her own combat in the climax--is likely where this is going. The discovery that Chani has Paul's Atreides-Fremen children--coupled with Irulan's increased agency in the film timeline--is going to make this storyline's version of ''Literature/DuneMessiah'' significantly darker, competing motivations-driven, and more emotionally-wrought than it already does]].
[[/folder]]

[[folder:What do the mice eat?]]

* When we see a cute little mouse running in a vast sea of sand, nothing but sand, what do those mice eat? For that matter, what do the humans eat?
** Insects, that are both mentioned and seen. Like most of the planet's fauna, they likely live under the sands. The books also state that the fremen farm root vegetables.
** The films' grand sweeping aesthetics definitely favor wide-open stretches of sand but there are plenty of real-life instances of plant life adapted to extremely dry environments. Root-heavy plants seem to have been the main cultivated crops on Arrakis before the coming of outside planetologists like Dr. Kynes, who introduced Earth desert plants in the interest of offsetting the negative impact of spice extraction, but most flora ''and'' fauna on the northern hemisphere of Arrakis probably cleave pretty close to areas of human habitation like the sheltered sietches for the same reason humans do when they're not stillsuited up.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Laser usage]]
* During the takedown of a spice harvester, part of the plan seems to be that Chani has to take down their aerial support with the missile launcher, and then the Fremen can devastate the harvester with lasers. Is there any reason they didn't just use lasers to take the air support out to begin with? The lasers seem brutally efficient and long-reaching.
** It could be that the air support is shielded (since it doesn't have to worry about attracting sandworms) and so it could be self destructive to target them with a lasgun. Also, it's easy to see where a lasgun beam originates, they may have attacked the air support first so they don't target the lasgun operators when they make their location obvious.
** The patrol ornithopter is explicitly shielded, so targeting it with a las weapon would be suicidal. The films never show what would happen if a las beam hit a shield, but it's made clear that it's something to be very wary of. For example, the Harkonnen soldier in the opening sequence who tells his squadmates 'no shields' when they're fired upon by Fremen. On the other hand, Part Two also makes it a point to show that all soldiers and vehicles that touch the desert soil are unshielded, in line with Liet's warning in Part One that it drives the worms into a frenzy.
** Its mentioned repeatedly in the books, and I believe briefly in a scene in one of the new movies. Briefly as in a blink and you miss it brief. If a laser hits a shield it creates a large nuclear explosion. So wiping out the ornithopter, the harvester, and every things else in a multi kilometer radius including, presumable the person or crew who fired the laser.
** On re-watching the trailers, I believe there is at least one instance of a laser hitting a shield. Trailer 3 at 1:19 shows an explosion in the sky, which then extends down an illuminated beam diagonally to the ground. It's very much not a nuclear-level explosion, but then, neither is the explosion of the three warheads Paul fires.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Fremen popping up in front of the imperial base]]
* During the final battle, the imperial base is attacked by worm-riders through a gap in the mountain range, by southern Fremen led by Paul from over a hill, and by yet another Fremen army. This last groups pops out of the sand within a short sprint of the Sardaukar ranks and includes Chani, who had previously been present at Paul's war council, overlooking the same imperial base. How did this Fremen army get in place and dig in, and why would they do that to begin with?
** Why the did it is easier. In the previous scene we learn it is a three pronged attack. First Stilgar breaching the new hole in the mountain Shield wall with worms draws the majority of the attention. Then Paul and Gurney Halek attacks with a second group from the direction of the landing pads, I think, preventing escape. Finally Chani attacks from a third direction overwhelming the defenders who are already busy fighting on two fronts. As to how the third army got set up under the sand, I have no idea.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Dismounting from sandworms]]
* Through this film and the first, we see the Fremen using sandworms as transportation both for military attacks as well as long-distance travel. We see Paul calling and mounting one as part of his Fremen-training. However, how does anyone dismount? Sandworms move very fast, and from what we see from the mounting process, they move a lot of sand and when they dig in after a ride there should be suction that buries the rider in the sand...
** Wormriding works by lifting scales that the worm than rotates up to avoid sand getting underneath. As is shown visually in Paul's wormriding scene. The book states that the worms eventually tire and move more slowly, at which point it's safe(-ish) to dismount.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Atreides nuclear warheads]]
* When did the Atreides have time to move their entire nuclear arsenal from Caladan to Arrakis, let alone build an entire vault to hold them?
** While they were doing everything else to move their household to Arrakis. Getting a single room full of warheads into a hidden vault would seem to be be a pretty small fraction of their total efforts. The only difference is that this one task was done in secret.
** It probably took a little while to actually organise and move everyone and their property from one planet to another. So it's likely that they sent some important stuff ahead first along with scouting parties to make sure that it was relatively safe and to install defensive systems so they couldn't be attacked while the family was moving.
** That was what Duncan was doing in the first movie. Well, not the nukes specifically, but he was one of the advance scouts making sure they could set up properly.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Bombing the seitch]]
* Why didn't Rabban bomb the seitch? It seems like a very Harkonnen thing to do, and Feyd-Rautha doesn't seem to have anything that Rabban didn't.
** Rabban wasn't given the resources. The floating bomber ship is first seen in the parade on Giedi Prime in honour of Feyd-Rautha getting the military command. By implication, the baron didn't really intend for Rabban to succeed (not necessarily to fail either, just not get enough done) so the na-baron could claim the pacification of the fiefdom.
[[/folder]]

** On re-watching the trailers, I believe there is at least one instance of a laser hitting a shield. Trailer 3 at 1:19 shows an explosion the sky, which then extends down an illuminated beam diagonally to the ground. It's very much not a nuclear-level explosion, but then, neither is the explosion of the three warheads Paul fires.

[[folder:Fremen popping up in front of the imperial base]]
* During the final battle, the imperial base is attacked by worm-riders through a gap in the mountain range, by southern Fremen led by Paul from over a hill, and by yet another Fremen army. This last groups pops out of the sand within a short sprint of the Sardaukar ranks and includes Chani, who had previously been present at Paul's war council, overlooking the same imperial base. How did this Fremen army get in place and dig in, and why would they do that to begin with?

** The patrol ornithopter is explicitly shielded, so targeting it with a las weapon would be suicidal. For example, the Harkonnen soldier in the opening sequence who tells his squadmates 'no shields' when they're fired upon by Fremen. The films never show what would happen if a las beam hit a shield, but it's made clear that it's something to be very wary of. On the other hand, Part Two makes it a point to show that all soldiers and vehicles that touch the desert soil are unshielded, in line with Liet's warning in Part One that it drives the worms into a frenzy.

** There are no computers or autonomous machines in the Dune universe, they are strictly religiously forbidden to the point breaking that rule would never be considered nor would anyone know how to build such a device.