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This is Flame Bait. Don\'t add it back.
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*** Nothing left to lose? What is Goten, chopped liver?
**** I think the troper above meant that Buu was going to eventually kill everyone, when he/she said "nothing to lose."
**** I think the troper above meant that Buu was going to eventually kill everyone, when he/she said "nothing to lose."
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**** I think the troper above meant that Buu was going to eventually kill everyone, when he/she said "nothing to lose."
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*** Nothing left to lose? What is Goten, chopped liver?
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[[Flat What.....what?]]
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** Except for Goten being, you know, right there.
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** Except for Goten being, you know, right there.
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** Plus out of the 3 main females he hits on, 1 of them is a tough martial artist who could at least fight him off, and another is a super powered android who could blow up the whole planet if she felt like it. If it REALLY bothered them that much, they could break him. They probably just find him kind of annoying.
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** The real question is "how come ''Vegeta'' hasn't been called out on his selfish bullshit? Arguably, he's done worse than Goku and Krillin combined and is [[DracoInLeatherPants treated like]] [[JerkSue a saint for it.]] He caused all the sagas to happen anyway.
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** The real question is "how come ''Vegeta'' hasn't been called out on his selfish bullshit? Arguably, he's done worse than Goku and Krillin combined and is [[DracoInLeatherPants treated like]] [[JerkSue a saint for it.]] He caused all the sagas to happen anyway.
anyway and his selfishness has gotten the world put in danger many times and he had no remorse for his actions!
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** The real question is "how come ''Vegeta'' hasn't been called out on his selfish bullshit. Arguably, he's done worse than Goku and Krillin combined and is [[DracoInLeatherPants treated like]] [[JerkSue a saint for it.]] He caused all the sagas to happen anyway.
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** The real question is "how come ''Vegeta'' hasn't been called out on his selfish bullshit. bullshit? Arguably, he's done worse than Goku and Krillin combined and is [[DracoInLeatherPants treated like]] [[JerkSue a saint for it.]] He caused all the sagas to happen anyway.
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** The real question is "how come ''Vegeta'' hasn't been called out on his selfish bullshit. Arguably, he's done worse than Goku and Krillin combined and is [[DracoInLeatherPants treated like]] [[JerkSue a saint for it.]] He caused all the sagas to happen anyway.
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removing this to avoid an argunent. No offense to the troper who posted this.
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*** The troper above [[Tropers/{{MsCC93}} me]] made some good points. I kind of find it peeving how [[FanDumb most fans don't take into consideration]] [[RonTheDeathEater that she's a mom and that it's]] [[ProperlyParanoid natural to freak out when your kid and husband are put into situations that can get them killed.]] She is way more chill in the manga when she lets her husband and son do what ever they wanted. Her MyBelovedSmother and EducationMama tendencies are turned UpToEleven in the anime. As far as her slapping Super Buu, although I consider that a CrowningMomentOfAwesome[=/=][[FunnyMoments Funny]] for her, I really wish she didn't do that. I mean, sometimes I felt that the point of the scene was to make fun of her and show how "[[TooDumbToLive stupid]]" she is, along with showing genuine anger over the loss of her eldest son. You do make a good point about how she did have nothing to lose, because, personally, I thought Buu was going to end up killing her along with her family and friends anyway.
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*** The troper above [[Tropers/{{MsCC93}} me]] made some good points. I kind of find it peeving how [[FanDumb most fans don't take into consideration]] [[RonTheDeathEater that she's a mom and that it's]] [[ProperlyParanoid natural to freak out when your kid and husband are put into situations that can get them killed.]] She is way more chill in the manga when she lets her husband and son do what ever they wanted. Her MyBelovedSmother and EducationMama tendencies are turned UpToEleven in the anime. As far as her slapping Super Buu, although I consider that a CrowningMomentOfAwesome[=/=][[FunnyMoments Funny]] for her, I really wish she didn't do that. I mean, sometimes I felt that the point of the scene was to make fun of her and show how "[[TooDumbToLive stupid]]" she is, along with showing genuine anger over the loss of her eldest son. You do make a good point about how she did have nothing to lose, because, personally, I thought Buu was going to end up killing her along with her family and friends anyway.
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* Chi-Chi's transition to a fighter to a housewife bugs me. I noticed and read somewhere that she appeared in most of the filler and that her acting hostile was in filler scenes and that she's way more chill in the manga. Pus, I heard that Toriyama wanted to be "realistic" with the Japanese mother portrayal [[note]](Sorry, I don't think that wanting to go to Namek to "rescue" your son and risking your life, thinking education is more important than saving the world, or slapping someone powerful than you and getting turned into an egg and crushed is a good portrayal, anyway)[[/note]], but why with only one character?
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* Chi-Chi's transition to a fighter to a housewife bugs me. I noticed and read somewhere that she appeared in most of the filler and that her acting hostile was in filler scenes and that she's way more chill in the manga. Pus, Plus, I heard that Toriyama wanted to be "realistic" with the Japanese mother portrayal [[note]](Sorry, I don't think that wanting to go to Namek to "rescue" your son and risking your life, thinking education is more important than saving the world, or slapping someone powerful than you and getting turned into an egg and crushed is a good portrayal, anyway)[[/note]], but why with only one character?
** In order Chi-chi wanted to save her baby, sure she was about to be in way over her head but it makes sense she'd want to try especially if she thought both he and Goku were going to die on Namek. While Chi-Chi is portrayed as putting Gohan's Education ahead of saving the world the reality is that Goku had pretty much just defeated the most powerful being in the universe. Combine that with an education being the only way to support yourself and it becomes rather simple why she acts that way. Considering how "frequently" threats showed up if she hadn't been that way Gohan would never have grown up into a scholar. She slapped Majin Buu. The entire world was already dead including to the best of her knowledge her husband and eldest son. She's literally got nothing left to lose.
** In order Chi-chi wanted to save her baby, sure she was about to be in way over her head but it makes sense she'd want to try especially if she thought both he and Goku were going to die on Namek. While Chi-Chi is portrayed as putting Gohan's Education ahead of saving the world the reality is that Goku had pretty much just defeated the most powerful being in the universe. Combine that with an education being the only way to support yourself and it becomes rather simple why she acts that way. Considering how "frequently" threats showed up if she hadn't been that way Gohan would never have grown up into a scholar. She slapped Majin Buu. The entire world was already dead including to the best of her knowledge her husband and eldest son. She's literally got nothing left to lose.
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* Chi-Chi's transition to a fighter to a housewife bugs me. I noticed and read somewhere that she appeared in most of the filler and that her acting hostile was in filler scenes and that she's way more chill in the manga. Pus, I heard that Toriyama wanted to be "realistic" with the Japanese mother portrayal [[note]](Sorry, I don't think that wanting to go to Namek to "rescue" your son and risking your life, thinking education is more important than saving the world, or slapping someone powerful than you and getting turned into an egg and crushed is a good portrayal, anyway)[[/note]], but why with only one character?
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** She doesn't seem to have anything against Saiyans, or people with tails either. As I understand it bleaching/dying your hair blonde is something only "punks" do so it's similar to the reaction an American woman might have to your hair suddenly turning into a green mohawk. Granted all we get are flashbacks but she doesn't seem particularly upset that Gohan has a tail it's just going Super that sets her off.
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** Maybe they just wanted one kid.
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** Maybe they just wanted one kid.kid.
* Does anyone here think that Chi-Chi is racist against Saiyans (I don't hate her though)? I mean, every time she sees her husband and sons exhibit Saiyan traits, she freaks out. Like that time she called Goten a "monster" (I know it's a dub error, but still). She even flipped out after seeing Gohan in Super Saiyan form for the first time. Why would she married a guy with a tail if she was going to flip out whenever she sees them transform into weird things?
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* Does anyone here think that Chi-Chi is racist against Saiyans (I don't hate her though)? I mean, every time she sees her husband and sons exhibit Saiyan traits, she freaks out. Like that time she called Goten a "monster" (I know it's a dub error, but still). She even flipped out after seeing Gohan in Super Saiyan form for the first time. Why would she married a guy with a tail if she was going to flip out whenever she sees them transform into weird things?
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** Piccolo doesn't seem to really look down at Vegeta so much as simply not like the guy very much which is understandable. He was directly responsible for his death and the same can be said for Tien. Though the entire series from beginning to end is filled with people who are forgiven incredibly easily.
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** Could have been a little of YouAreWhatYouHate. Plus, while they all went through a HeelFaceTurn relatively quickly and became more humble people, it took Vegeta CONSIDERABLY longer before he showed any sort of humility or repentence. Not to mention none of them really made any suicidally idiotic mistakes like, say, letting Cell achieve his Perfect form to have a better fight, or letting Babidi partially control him to fight more evenly with Goku.
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***** Chronologically, the guidebooks place this movie during the middle of the android training. Plenty of time for him to get a lot stronger. Cooler's probably as strong or stronger than Goku right after returning from Yardrat (who was enough to casually curbstomp the guy who casually curbstomped Freeza), given that he almost killed the much stronger Goku during Cooler's Revenge.
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***** That's actually completely wrong. Freeza was 120,000,000 and Goku 150,000,000 according to guides.
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* Why didn't Baba get any strong fighters from the past to help out agaisnt the Saiyans/Androids/Buu? I guess Buu fight of been too strong for anyone in otherworld, and POSSIBLY the Androids/Cell, but surely there was someone who had millions of years to train was strong enough to take down Vegeta and Nappa.
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* Why didn't Baba get any strong fighters from the past to help out agaisnt the Saiyans/Androids/Buu? I guess Buu fight might of been too strong for anyone in otherworld, and POSSIBLY the Androids/Cell, but surely there was someone who had millions of years to train and was strong enough to take down Vegeta and Nappa.
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* Why did Dr. Gero make his Android body look exactly like his human one?
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...really? really?
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* Okay I know DBZ isn't exactly known for its romance (wow that's an understatement) but seriously, all the couples (I'm only counting the first generation, Gohan and Videl don't count, mostly because while they had development I found them unbelievably boring) on this show are either completely incompatible or just have no real emotion connection with each other. (excluding Bulma and Vegeta, who are similar enough in personality and seem to genuinely enjoy the SlapSlapKiss thing they have going on enough to actually seem compatible). I mean Goku married [=ChiChi=] because she forced him into it, and seems to make every effort to not interact with her and leaves her for long periods of time without seeming to miss her or regret leaving her at all. Krillen and Android 18 are just....weird, there was no real development building up to their relationship (I know, I know, maybe I'm asking too much but even B/V had a whole mini plot going in both anime and manga, it wasn't long or detailed but it was there at least) it was just like one day he said 'i love you' and she was like 'sure why not.'
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* Okay I know DBZ isn't exactly known for its romance (wow that's an understatement) but seriously, all the couples (I'm only counting the first generation, Gohan and Videl don't count, mostly because while they had development I found them unbelievably boring) on this show are either completely incompatible or just have no real emotion connection with each other. (excluding Bulma and Vegeta, who are similar enough in personality and seem to genuinely enjoy the SlapSlapKiss thing they have going on enough to actually seem compatible). I mean Goku married [=ChiChi=] because she forced him into it, he felt guilty and proposed, and seems to make every effort to not interact with her and leaves her for long periods of time without seeming to miss her or regret leaving her at all. Krillen and Android 18 are just....weird, there was no real development building up to their relationship (I know, I know, maybe I'm asking too much but even B/V had a whole mini plot going in both anime and manga, it wasn't long or detailed but it was there at least) it was just like one day he said 'i love you' and she was like 'sure why not.'
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* Why didn't Gohan and Videl have any more kids? Did something bad happen when Pan was born?
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* Why didn't Gohan and Videl have any more kids? Did something bad happen when Pan was born?born?
** Maybe they just wanted one kid.
** Maybe they just wanted one kid.
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* Why didn't Gohan and Videl have any more kids? Did something bad happen when Pan was born?
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** There's nothing indicating that this is the case. It's never stated, they're baggier, and they're a different color (at least in the anime). I've always assumed as the series went on he just wore armor that was less and less resembling Freeza soldier armor and more like something an Earthling would wear as a subtle nod to his character development. After Buu the only thing resembling his old outfit is the gloves and boots.
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** There's nothing indicating that this is the case. It's never stated, they're baggier, and they're a different color (at least in the anime). I've always assumed as the series went on he just wore armor that was less and less resembling Freeza soldier armor and more like something an Earthling would wear as a subtle nod to his character development. After Buu the only thing resembling his old outfit is the gloves and boots.boots.
* Why didn't Gohan and Videl have any more kids? Did something bad happen when Pan was born?
* Why didn't Gohan and Videl have any more kids? Did something bad happen when Pan was born?
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* Why didn't Gohan and Videl have any more kids? Did something bad happen when Pan was born?
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** Have you met Chi-Chi. She’s the most loyal wife ever. She’ll never think of leaving Goku.
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** Have you met Chi-Chi. Chi-Chi? She’s the most loyal wife ever. She’ll never think of leaving Goku.
Goku.
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***** Consider, also, the fact that the Androids would have attacked whether Goku was dead or not. Goku being alive in the main timeline was what kept it from being utterly destroyed like in Future Trunks' world. If Goku's enemies are going to attack, they're not going to care that he's dead. The proof is right there. They'll do it anyway just to hurt his family and friends, or to have fun with the world he loved so much. Honestly, it's better if he sticks around so that when his old enemies ''do'' attack, he's there to stop them again. Goku ''should'' know this since his being alive was what saved them all from the androids. His remaining dead actually endangers the group more than if he was still alive. Another example (even though it's non-canon) is the Broly: Second Coming movie. One of Goku's old enemies attacked, and he didn't care that Goku was dead. He nearly killed everyone anyway.
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* Yamcha's defeatism bugs me. In the original Dragon Ball and early Z series he loved fighting to the extent he would devote months to constant training and in Anime filler started a fight with an entire baseball team for fun. Come the end of Z, despite his previous joy of fighting reaching near Saiyan levels, he had completely given up. Now the accepted fan theory is that he became genre savvy enough to realize he could never surpass the Super Saiyan's. 1) This never stopped Krillin from enjoying himself at the 25th World Martial Arts tournament, despite knowing he didn't stand a chance against Goku and Vegeta ''and'' despite Krillin never really having the same eagerness to fight Yamcha did. Neither did this stop Tien from training day and night to the point he could avoid Buu's Human Extinction Attack. 2) In real life how many martial artists are up to the standard of Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris? 5% maybe? doesn't stop the other 95% entering tournaments for competition, fun and general fitness does it? So here we have a situation where Yamcha, the strongest human in the world barring Tien and Krillin, who
would almost certainly have won every single one of those Tournaments where Hercule was the only Z-Fighter competing - pathetically fizzling out for no adequate reason whatsoever.
would almost certainly have won every single one of those Tournaments where Hercule was the only Z-Fighter competing - pathetically fizzling out for no adequate reason whatsoever.
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* Yamcha's defeatism bugs me. In the original Dragon Ball and early Z series he loved fighting to the extent he would devote months to constant training and in Anime filler started a fight with an entire baseball team for fun. Come the end of Z, despite his previous joy of fighting reaching near Saiyan levels, he had completely given up. Now the accepted fan theory is that he became genre savvy enough to realize he could never surpass the Super Saiyan's. 1) This never stopped Krillin from enjoying himself at the 25th World Martial Arts tournament, despite knowing he didn't stand a chance against Goku and Vegeta ''and'' despite Krillin never really having the same eagerness to fight Yamcha did. Neither did this stop Tien from training day and night to the point he could avoid Buu's Human Extinction Attack. 2) In real life how many martial artists are up to the standard of Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris? 5% maybe? doesn't stop the other 95% entering tournaments for competition, fun and general fitness does it? So here we have a situation where Yamcha, the strongest human in the world barring Tien and Krillin, who
who would almost certainly have won every single one of those Tournaments where Hercule was the only Z-Fighter competing - pathetically fizzling out for no adequate reason whatsoever.
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added this page...forgive me if any entry is broken
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* If Bulma was the one who made the Dragon Radar that gave her the opportunity to search for the Dragon Balls better than anyone else could before, and it was her skills at inventing that helped her make it, why do so many other people have their own kind of Dragon Radar?
** Contrary to what Bulma would have us think, she's not the only big brain on DBZ's Earth
*** Red Ribbon's radar was created by Dr. Gero, and Bulma acknowledges he's a genius too.
** Well, the truth is, those other Dragon Radars tend to suck. They either take up an entire room, are not all that accurate, or have other limitations. Bulma seems to be able to make these out of spare parts in DB.
** [[Film/IronMan IN A CAVE! WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS!]]
** Well a psychic baby was able to build one out of broken pieces of the same device.
*** To be fair, that entire segment was pretty much a BigLippedAlligatorMoment in order to give a fond cameo to the cast of Dr. Slump, what with the Fourth Wall breaking and a guy who has used ToonPhysics to build things that made the time-space continuum his bitch being impressed by a portable global radar system.
** By "other people" do you mean average people or the main characters? If it's the former, she probably doesn't sell the technology because she doesn't want anyone other than the main characters finding the Dragon Balls. That might sound selfish, but since the Z warriors are often busy saving the universe and working alongside deities, it makes sense that they would want the Dragon Balls to be available to be used during critical situations. As for why she doesn't make a personal Dragon Radar for the other characters, maybe ie's because she fears that they - being the fight-crazy bunch that they are, always busy with training - might forget the radar somewhere, which would result in someone else finding it to possibly disastrous results.
* So here is a quick and easy way for them to hide/transport the dragonballs on both Earth and Namek... capsule them. Put them in one of Bulma's capsule vehicles and shrink them. Why all the fuss of trying to hide the things when you can store the entire lot in your pocket? Also, whilst we have no way to be sure, wouldn't hiding the things in a capsule dampen the Electromagnetic signal they give off? would have been at least WORTH an attempt when you are trying to hide them from the Red Ribbon Army or Frieza's Trade Organization for example.
** It's not really worth the effort. Frieza was the last villian searching for the Dragonballs and there is no reason to take precautions against guys like Pillaf at all.
* How does Goku ever figure out what it was that killed Grandpa Gohan? IIRC, Gohan told him never to look at the full moon (presumably after seeing Goku transform into his giant ape form once), but Goku did anyway somehow and killed him. Goku never has any recollection of his actions when he's in that state, so how did he know that it was a giant ape that killed Gohan? How did he end up connecting Vegeta's transformation to 'the same monster that killed my Grandpa'? At any point, does he ever realize what ''he'' did, and that he did it?
** In DBZ Season 1, Vegeta tells Goku about the Oozaru transformation. (Keep in mind that no one ever told Goku this; they just said he shouldn't look at the full moon whilst sporting a Saiyan monkey tail.) After hearing that, it's so clear to him what happened that he actually becomes upset with his friends for keeping him in the dark. (Imagine if everytime you looked at the full moon, you woke up naked and confused, everything around you destroyed, and your friends all terrified, telling you to never look at the full moon again. Goku can be pretty goofy in the head sometimes but he's not blind.)
*** He actually DOES get upset at them?
**** Well, he keeps it to himself, but yes.
***** Typical Goku fashion, he doesn't dwell on it too long and it's never referred to again.
** Also, when he's first told about the full moon being out in the first season of Dragon Ball, he tells his friends that Grandpa Gohan told him about a giant monkey that came out when the moon was full. Full-moon-giant-monkey-leaves-footprints-on-Grandpa plus Vegeta-makes-artificial-full-moon-and-turns-into-giant-monkey equals obvious, even to Goku.
*** [[YouKilledMyFather You killed my grandfather!]] (No, really, he said that to Vegeta. After being explained that all Saiyans with tails do that, he put 2 and 2 together and got 4).
**** Actually, that was just the [[{{Macekre}} Ocean Dub]].
***** It's in the Viz translated manga too. Vegeta's very amused.
* In what way is Kami a guardian? He never does anything to guard the Earth. The only time he has ever shown trying to defend the Earth is when he went up agaisnt Piccolo during the 23rd budokai. All other times all he does is just sit on his lookout doing nothing, I wouldn't call him a "guardian". And sure he created the Dragon Balls but they could have been used just as much for evil as good. If he was a smart guardian, he would have just got rid of the time limit, removed the effect of them flying off every time they're used and kept them on his lookout for whenever something went wrong on Earth.
** It's possible that it's some combination of the exact nature of the cosmos wasn't fully formed early on. We know Kami means God, perhaps Kami is technically his title and not his name but when it was just Dragonball they didn't think to give him two names. Kinda like Kai is is a title, perhaps he's supposed to be named Kami Kai though I find the former more likely and that Dende is supposed to be called Kami Dende or Dende Kami now but by the time he showed up he knew his pay grade. It was damn unlikely Vegeta was going to call that punk kid from Namek God Dende. While it eventually turned out to be false I don't think King Kai was lying about planet Vegeta having a guardian that summoned a meteor. I think that was the truth until he decided Frieza doing it was a better idea. Each planet gets a Kami and a set of Dragonballs. Each galaxy gets a Kai, each universe a Supreme Kai (assuming Dragonball has a functioning Multiverse.
** I don't think he guards in the physical sense so much as the spiritual sense; he ''is'' the god of the planet[[hottip:*: beneath King Kai who is god of the galactic quadrant, Grand Kai who is god of the galaxy, and Supreme Kai who is god of the universe, and used to be god of the northern quadrant of the universe until Buu absorbed the other four quadrant gods and the universal god. Divinity in DBZ is very much like a pyramid scheme.]], remember, and has been shown dealing with the passage to the afterlife and negotiating of where in the afterlife people go. Plus, the threats kinda exceeded his ability to handle after Piccolo, and he DID provide consistent aid, training, and sanctuary for his Champions after that.
*** Plus he did try to stop Piccolo when he appeared at the tournament.
** Technically, each Kaioh rules a quadrant of the universe, and each Kaiohshin rules the same quadrant AND the afterlife. It's AllThereInTheManual. But yeah, Dragon Ball deities are funny like that.
** Before he was surpassed by Goku, with the exception of King Piccolo and perhaps Popo (given his ability to later spar two Super Saiyans), Kami was the strongest being on Earth for hundreds of years and thus perfectly capable of defending it. Its also shown that Kami has been drastically weakened by age so logically he should have been able to fight pre-Kaioken Goku is his prime. As for the Kais, they not only have a similar problem of being surpassed by new threats, but seem to have been the victim of great stagnation in their society. Every featured Kai has been shown to either be overconfident or lazy enough to believe they don't need to train; both King, Grand and Supreme Kai seem to spend their entire lives relaxing or clowning about - when was last time we have seen them practice? It's one of the reasons they're all so startled when they meet a Super Saiyan for the first time.
*** There is another alternative that no one seems to have considered... that Kami is a coward. When King Piccolo was released and started murdering martial artists, Kami had four very clear courses of action. 1) Seek out Piccolo and immediately kill his spawn (childs play for a warrior as powerful as him) so they can't get in his way, then use the Evil Containment wave to capture him. We know King Piccolo has no counter for this technique and we know he is so afraid of it that it strickens him with paralysis. 2) If option 1 fails, just confront Piccolo and fight him to the death. No matter who wins both will die. Every single one of the people he is pledged to protect is now saved. 3) Circumvent options 1 and 2 and just commit suicide in the comfort - resulting in the exact same result as 2. 4) Sit in your near-impregnable aerial fortress as a small child gets nearly beaten to death twice, watch as many innocent men and women are murdered and sit by and do nothing as King Piccolo conquers the planet and declares all law null and void. Options 1 - 3 are what a Hero pledged to guard the Earth would do. Option 4 is what Yajirobe or Oolong would do. And if you think I'm being too hard on Kami remember... this is the '''second''' time he has chosen option 4. In every flashback we have seen Kind Piccolo's original conquest of Earth, in which we saw global terror and Mutaito and the Hermits fight a losing battle to save the Earth, have we heard of a single thing Kami ever did? he is one of the ''two strongest beings on Earth''. Options 2 - 3 are fully open to him at this point and arguably even option 1. Either Mutaito developed the Containment Wave himself or he learnt it from another Master; in both cases Kami would have to have learnt it during their lifetimes in order for him to be able to throw it against Piccolo Jr - assuming it wasn't Kami that taught Mutaito which would officially make Kami a dick as well as a coward.
**** By the time Piccolo Sr. had been unsealed, Kami had grown cynical in his opinion of humanity and life on Earth, which is why he originally planned to leave the Dragon Balls destroyed an unusable. It was probably not only this cynicism, but also all his other duties as Guardian of the Earth (whatever those might entail) that caused him to not take action. He is by no means a coward, given he willingly fused with Piccolo and allowed Piccolo to remain the conscious persona, thus ceasing his own existence.
**** Option 1 wasn't available, since Kami was only aware of the Mafuba technique after Mutaito (Roshi's master) created and used it to seal Piccolo Sr. This was explicitly stated in the story. Killing himself would remove any possibility of making up for the actions of Piccolo Sr. - in case you've forgotten, he created the Dragon Balls to do just that. Besides, he'd need to have a successor of some sort in place if he ever did something as drastic as killing himself, and there wasn't anyone who fit the bill until Goku came along (given that being pure-hearted and fairly powerful are requirements).
** Kami obviously doesn't have the physical ability to actually "guard" the Earth, but he helps in what ways he can - such as when he helped Goku to go see King Kai, and escorted him back to Earth, and allowing the Z Fighters to train on his lookout.
* How come the citizens of the DBZ world never wonder how they keep dying and coming back to life? Apart from the Buu Saga, their memories of being killed were never explicitly wiped out, so why don't they ever wonder who brought them back to life and how?
** The Buu saga is the only one where anyone besides the Z fighters themselves are brought back to life, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
*** The Cell saga? They wished everyone in that saga to be brought back to life.
*** They probably thought it was a [[NoOntologicalInertia side effect]] of Hercule destroying Cell in that case.
* Supreme Kai always refers to the Z fighters as "Mere Mortals"... but isn't he himself a Mortal?
** Yeah he is mortal in the sense that he can be killed, but not in the sense that he doesn't age and would never die of natural causes...he probably has lived for so long that for all intents and purposes he considered himself immortal.
** Immortality in Dragon Ball has always been pretty consistant. It allows the user eternal life but not invincibility. For example Master Roshi was stated to have drunk from the Fountain of Youth which froze his age as an old man - but he is still very much vulnerable to being killed by outside sources. Garlic Junior wished for immortality and was indeed capable of regeneration on a semi-Buu like scale, but he was far from indestructible. The only reason they had to trap him in the Dead Zone is that they were completely hindered by their low power levels - a Super Saiyan would have been able to vapourize Garlic. The Kai's and Buu also work on the exact same principles - immunity to age but not immunity to death.
*** Didn't Garlic recover from a hole inside himself? Granted, it was the anime filler, but I assume that's on equal terms of "canon" as the Dead Zone movie.
**** Yes he did; but that proves that he ''can'' be killed it's just that like Cell and Buu you need to destroy every single bit of him before he regenerates. Like the Troper above points out that whilst Garlic seemed strong he was initially defeated by the pre-Raditz Z Fighters - Super Saiyan Goku would have done a lot more than blow a small hole in Garlic's chest.
** Keep in mind Kami's name means god, and look at how he compares to the rest of the universe. He's below Yama, who is below King/North Kai, who is below Grand Kai, who is below Supreme Kai. It's less about mortality and immortality and more about the Z fighters not being gods.
* If Shenron can't do anything that's beyond Kami's abilities, why didn't Kami just resurrect everybody instead of having to search for the Dragon Balls every time? Hell, why didn't he render Goku (or failing that, HIMSELF) immortal?
** So A) nobody ever wishes themselves immortal in DBZ, so we don't even know if the dragon can actually grant that wish. Piccolo grants himself youth, so maybe eternal youth is within the dragon's capabilities, but not preventing you from death in battle. But, then again, Roshi seems to live forever (he might have drunk some magic water at some point), too, so it is not as useful as you'd think. B) Just because something is within Kami's power, doesn't mean he has the skills to do it. Remember, it is magic!
*** At one point it's stated that Roshi has drunk from the Fountain of Youth AND at one time he had access to the legendary Phoenix which was apparently capable of granting immortality(This was his original reward for Goku before he decided on giving him the Flying Nimbus)
** Garlic Jr actually does wish for immortality. Which just means the heroes shove him into The Dead Zone for all eternity. Besides, most in the [=DBZverse=]even think about immortality less in terms of "Will never die" and more "Unkillable". Once you're strong enough to kick God's ass, living forever might seem to hold less allure.
*** [[CanonDiscontinuity Garlic Jr]]. Was this just in the movie or in the anime filler? Either way, not strictly canon. Regardless, I think the original query is just outside the dragon's powers -- and Kami cannot grant all sorts of wishes, no more than you can play video games on your laptop's battery. Kami is the source of the Dragon's power, that doesn't mean he has all the dragon's skills.
*** Also, Kami probably wouldn't have done it, because, outside the Dragon Balls, he doesn't like to specifically interfere with Earth. Remember, the Namek Dragon barely ever used his resurrection abilities because the Nameks saw death as natural, and it wasn't until someone started a genocidal campaign against them that they considered using it. As for rendering Goku immortal, at the end of Dragon Ball Goku specifically says he doesn't want Kami to do anything like that to him, and, as for himself... well, perhaps that's breaking the rules.
**** Yeah, I'd say for the Guardian of Earth, making someone immortal would be a very dangerous and unguardianly thing to do. However, like you mentioned, Goku had the opportunity to become the guardian at one point, which he turned down.
** Rou-Dai-Kaioushin, the most ancient and wise of all of the DB-verse's Gods considers the Dragon Balls the equivalent of cosmic cheat codes, so presumably they allow a God's strength to be used to fuel abilities that the Gods themselves do not inherently possess.
** I always figured it was something like the Dragon Balls were a rechargeable reflection of Kami's maximum potential. Like a young Kami in his prime using the full extent of his power would be able to do something like resurrect everyone on Earth or grant immortality to a person, but at the cost of his own life. Whereas the Dragon Balls are capable of doing the same with the only consequence being a 1 year recharging period.
* Yamcha has eaten senzu beans at least once in the series. How come he still has scars on his face? After all, these very senzu beans are capable of healing broken necks (Gohan) and arms (Vegeta).
** Because the scar tissue is old and no longer technically a "wound". If he ate the bean when he got the injury in the first place, it'd be a different story. Same basic reason the beans don't cause saiyans to regenerate lost tails.
*** Then why does Future Trunks tell Future Gohan (in their side story) that if only they had senzu they could heal his missing arm?
**** Because Future Trunks is somewhat of an idiot?
**** Then Future Gohan must be an idiot too, because he doesn't disagree.
**** The first answer is the correct one - Future Gohan's injury was mere hours old at this point. Yamcha had these scars from when he was a very young man. As a side point it actually has a basis in real world medicine - fresh wounds are far easier to repair then a semi-healed one.
**** It's not that it would regrow a missing arm; it's that they wouldn't have had to amputate it if they had had any senzu beans left.
**** Speaking of which, why the hell didn't Bulma just build him a replacement arm?
***** You really have to wonder how effective and/or useful that would have been considering the cyborgs that took his arm (not to mention Gohan himself) could've probably rendered it akin to torn tissue paper with little effort. He'd have it for five minutes, max, before it gets scrapped. Sure, it works for a guy like Tao, but Alter-Future Gohan and the Androids...whole other league.
****** Very good points about how useless a ''Tao'' style bionic arm would be in combat but two things occur to me. 1) Given Bulma's extensive technical abiity (shes smart enough to build a time machine) why hasn't she yet managed to copy a ''Gero'' style arm? Gohan would only need a basic copy in order to help him block attacks. 2) Even in an post-apocalyptic hellhole, an arm has other functions besides fighting. General things like eating, writing, cleaning... all of which he must logically be doing in between his battles.
** Because they thought it was [[HandicappedBadass cooler if Gohan had one arm even though, logically, Bulma could've given him an arm that wouldn't have slowed him down.]]
** In a similar vein to the Yamcha example above, during the run of GT Gohan dons a pair of glasses. This completely ''baffles'' me in a universe in which Dende, Majin Buu and the beans exist that Gohan should require any form of corrective eyewear. Unless he has taken a leaf out of the Tenth Doctor's book and has decided to wear a pair of ''brainy specs,'' the only reasonable conclusion I can see is that beyond healing fresh injuries restoring Ki, the Senzu are actually quite overrated - unless it's yet another GT plot hole of course.
*** Perhaps he felt that it helped him blend in? Also, the senzu seems to be able to heal injuries and such, but deteriorated eyesight is a natural, slow thing. Perhaps if he kept eating Senzus every day, he'd continue to have perfect eyesight.
*** He first dons the glasses at the end of DBZ and I always assumed he put them on just to look brainy, not because he actually needs it.
*** As a teenager, Gohan had eagle eyes- he was able to see that Hercule was holding a dog from thousands of feet in the air. Either the glasses are completely absurd, or as he aged, his eyesight drifted closer to that of a normal human: still extremely sharp by human standards, but deteriorating considerably from his ability to spot a puppy from a mile away.
* Chao Tzu and Goku are both children in Dragon Ball. In DBZ Chao Tzu is still a child when Goku has gone on to have a son.
** Dude's either a midget or some magical being that ages slowly. Note that his close friend Tien didn't seem to age much, either, and neither of them exactly match the standard human phenotype- Chao Tzu looks like a clown, and Tien's a Triclops.
** Chiaotzu is a Chinese mythical being, I forget what it's called but it's like a zombie crossed with a vampire. There's also a Dragon Ball feature length adventure that implies he's a weird king with Tien as his bodyguard, but [[CanonDiscontinuity it's not quite canon.]] "Not the standard human phenotype" doesn't count for much in the Dragon Ball world, where aliens, animals, and mythical beasts rarely have any problems living, conversing, and breeding with humans.
*** Doesn't imply; him being an Emperor plays a noticable part of the movie.
*** The mythical being you're thinking of is a Jiang Shi, aka Hopping Vampire.
* Why didn't occur to Goku to teach the Instant Transmission technique to any of his allies?
** It annoys me more that Goku or King Kai never bothered teaching anyone else the kaioken technique. Maybe the humans would have been still too weak, but Piccolo would have probably been almost as strong as the strongest characters during the Cell Saga at least. Was Perfect Cell really that much more than 20 times as strong as Piccolo? Also, Kaioken just looks plain cooler, yes, cooler than super saiyan even.
*** During the Frieza fight, King Kai points out that Goku "has been using the Kaioken the entire time." It just wasn't ''shown'' any more. It's entirely possible that the other Z fighters actually were taught the technique, and WERE using it. They just never state it explicitly. This effect actually happens with other moves, too. The human ability to "sense chi" is something that Goku spent months/years learning from Mr. Popo. However, once he ''did'' learn it, it became a common ability for anybody that knew Goku. Even Vegeta was able to learn it with zero actual study.
*** Apparently, they might all know it after all. At least in ''Kai'', when Piccolo is fighting Android 20, he says that ''all'' of them have learned to amplify their base energy in short bursts to give their strikes some extra kick.
*** Also brings to question why Cell didn't use Kaio Ken in any of his fights, despite claiming to possess it. His already enormous power would be multiplied twentyfold. At his Super Perfect form, Cell would have been able to curbstomp even Super Saiyan 2 Gohan with it. Unless he did use Kaio Ken but it wasn't visible anymore at a certain point, as the above poster mentioned.
**** [[EpilepticTrees Maybe Cell's Self-Destruct "was" his Kaio Ken technique.]] Goku did mention that there was always a risk your body would explode from overusing it. Maybe Cell did so on purpose.
**** Cell didn't know he could regenerate until he saw Piccolo grow his arm back. Maybe he just didn't know he could use Kaio Ken.
***** Which in a series where things don't always make sense, that explanation makes less sense than usual. Cell came programed knowing all the moves in the game, including a few that he had no way of actually knowing. I can buy that all of the moves of the earth fighters can simply be programed into the computer but how did he know Frieza's destructo disc, and even that Goku planned a last second dodge if the moves aren't literally part of his DNA? If I had to guess though I'd assume that just like Goku on planet Namek that he was using Kaio Ken constantly, as was everybody they just stopped animating it. Though it would be nice if they flat out explained it at some point, if for no other reason than it makes me wonder how strong some of the other characters are. Vegeta for example could potentially be a lot stronger than is let on if he DOESN'T know the Kaio Ken and still manages to almost keep up with Goku who's using it constantly.
****** There is simply no evidence that anyone else but Goku ever used the Kaioken. True the animators did get lazy and stopped animating Goku's red aura during the fight on Namek however that is a great leap to assume that must apply to everyone else just to try and explain why Goku or King Kai never taught it to anyone. May I remind everyone here present that these fighters have a long history of not teaching their techniques to each other; near enough all examples of them using one of their comrades techniques is nothing but mimicry with the exception of anyone who had a personal teacher. There is no argument that I can see as to why Goku never divulged the secrets of the Kaioken or the Instant Transmission that doesn't apply equally to Tien for example not divulging his Crane School techniques. My guess is that, although they are friends, that there is still a great amount of rivalry between them which would inevitably breed a reluctance to share. Vegeta especially would have rather kissed a toilet seat than have Goku try to teach him anything especially pre-Buu saga.
* It's occurred to a lot of people to wonder how [=ChiChi=] survived having sex with Goku - but how the heck did ''Bulma'' survive having sex with ''Vegeta?'' Unlike [=ChiChi=] she's an ordinary human, and even though Vegeta isn't as strong as Goku he also isn't as good at controlling his strength. ManOfSteelWomanOfKleenex promptly comes to mind.
** Well, he may not have good emotional control, but he still must have total control over his own body to become such a fighter. He just chooses to act the way he does.
* Why the heck are Trunks and Goten so stupidly powerful? Goten especially. He achieves Super Saiyan at, what? Age 8? Younger? At that age, Goku, a full-blooded Saiyan, mind you, was running from bees and finding himself an even match with Yamcha.
** It was stated somewhere that Saiyan/Human hybrids are abnormally powerful, for example, Gohan. It could also be the fact that when they Goku and Vegeta did their wives, they were both already Super Saiyans, giving them the "trait" to access Super Saiyan as easily as they could.
*** You just said "for example Gohan" but Goku wasn't Super Saiyan when he fathered Gohan, remember?
**** I believe that troper was referring to how insanely powerful Gohan was at such a young age, compared to his father or Piccolo. Also consider that Chi-chi wasn't a bad fighter in her own right, either.
* Shouldn't Vegeta be the king of all Saiyans instead of prince of all Saiyans considering the state of the fomer king? or is the Saiyan throne not hereditary?
** What Saiyans? Goku and Gohan? Come on...'
*** Even worse than that. Assuming all the Sayians on the planet were pure-bloodied Sayians, that means the only other Sayain Vegeta could "rule" over is...Goku. The others (Gohan, Goten, and Trunks) are half-Sayians.
** Vegeta is still prince for the same reason most "princess" without parents in fiction are still "princesses": because they like the title better.
** Vegeta was born a prince, but he would have to be crowned in an official ceremony to be the King. Not exactly easy when your monarchy and the planet it is meant to rule is space dust.
** Vegeta could declare himself King of the Saiyans at any time he wanted. Ceremony doesn't mean much when A) you would be the king of 4-8 people total, and B) you could kill any of those four without too much effort(Broly excluded from this point, and assuming it takes place before the saiyan saga to cover Goku). The thing is, even Vegeta, as vain as he was, could see what a pointless, petty, childish, immature act that would be. It would be akin to a kid sitting down in the sandbox at the park and declaring himself king of it, demanding tribute from the other kids who just shake their heads and go play on the swing set. He would get no end of mocking for it from the higher ups in Frieza's army, something he was well aware of. He was a prince by birth, had grown up as a prince when that still meant something, so he was comfortable using that title.
* Why do the humans refuse to try and keep up with the Saiyans? After just a few weeks training with King Kai they are stronger than Goku was after a year of the same training. Can you imagine what would have happened if they'd thought like Vegeta and said screw thousands of years of tradition and trained with technology?
** Yamcha did try the gravity chamber and it almost killed him. Also, I wouldn't say they became stronger than Goku, just stronger than the Ginyu Force, and they still had some difficulty with that. Goku took the Ginyu Force down so easily he was surprised.
*** That's because Yamcha tried the gravity chamber at the same setting Vegeta was using (one that nearly crippled ''him'' when he first tried it), rather than starting from scratch.
*** Exactly he started at 100 or 300 times gravity instead of ten or twenty. If he'd gone through the steps it would have worked. And they were clearly stronger than Goku. Goku after training with King Kai could barely stand up to Vegeta. Several beatings and healings later Vegeta could not beat Recoom. The three of them beat four of the Ginyu Force without much difficulty. So clearly each of them was stronger then Vegeta had been on earth. And that was after a couple of weeks of training with King Kai not over a year. Humans couldn't keep up because they didn't try. Gravity training works.
**** Problem is; it always comes down to the same thing - humans can't transform. Then human Z Fighters were able to keep up with Goku and Vegeta during the Saiyan and Namek saga's but once they learnt Super Saiyan (for reference it multiplies their base power by 50) Yamcha, Krillin and Tien were never going to be able to fight equally. Theoretically the only two ways they could have potentially corrected this imbalance would be to A) train their bodies to sustain a Kaioken x50; with the problem that the Kaioken techique doesn't last as long as Super Saiyan or B) copy Master Roshi's ability to double in size; which whilst no doubt effective (it endowed Roshi the abilty to destroy the moon) it would have the same disadvantages of a Super Saiyan Grade 3 - namely it would reduce your speed dramatically.
***** The humans weren't even close in the Saiyan and Namek arcs to Goku and Vegeta, and there's no way they could even keep up with their base forms, let alone transformations. Goku on Namek had a power level of 3,000,000 and it is implied he went on to raise his base power level above Freeza's 120,000,000 by the Boo saga. The humans had power levels below 2,000 in the Saiyan saga, they had '''absolutely no chance''' at keeping up, no matter what they could have tried.
** Humans vs Ginyu force was filler.
*** True, but there is at least something to be said about humans that is not filler. Consider this: after Goku beats Piccolo Daimao, he goes to train under Kami. After a whole three years of intense training, and then another five years where he must have at least not gone down in power, he has enough strength to... get easily splatted into a wall by Radish. Don't forget that Radish was said by Nappa to be about as strong as a Saibaman (poor guy). Now to the humans: when Bulma measures their power levels, we know they are far weaker than Goku or Piccolo. Even then, a single year (or even less) of training under Kami is enough to make them stronger than the Saibamen. I know it had to be done for the sake of the story, but it makes Goku's advancements seem a bit slow in perspective, and it makes the humans look pretty capable overall. Thus, we can only wonder just how strong they did get under King Kai. Tenshinhan is indeed able to somewhat keep Imperfect Cell at bay, after all.
**** It appears that the humans can in fact train with better results than even the Saiyans on a normal to normal basis, but what kills their chances is that they just don't have anything equivalent to Super Saiyan modes to ascend to or the remarkable healing ability.
**** The first case isn't just Kami's training, and not the same training Goku got. They got more advanced training, and did their own training afterwards. Even then, they developed at a pace they never had before, it was entirely plot driven. As was Tenshinhan holding down Semi-Perfect Cell, it was a clear example of StrongAsTheyNeedToBe seeing as one kick from Android 17 earlier was enough to take him out.
**** I think this is a major discrepancy. Also consider the idea that after fusing with Namek's strongest fighter, Piccolo only had enough strength to keep Frieza's 2nd form at bay, yet after fusing with Kami, who's something like 40 times weaker than Nail (assuming power levels aren't completely bullshit), he becomes stronger than a Super Saiyan. Sometimes the relative strengths of characters are just messed up.
**** Maybe that was because of the Fusion multiplier.
**** I think this deserves some elaboration. Humans can’t match Saiyans in power simply due to genetics. Starting with the latter’s so called “Zenkai Power”. Basically, every time a Saiyan recovers from a serious beating they get a large power up. Both, Goku and Vegeta, exploit this trait during the Namek Arc. Second, all the transformations in Super Saiyan, Full Power, [=SSJ2=], [=SSJ3=] and whatnot. And third, the fact that human/saiyan hybrids are especially powerful. In the long run, Humans will always lose no matter the training.The whole thing with Ten Shin Han and Cell is not StrongAsTheyNeedToBe but rather WeakButSkilled. You see, techniques can dramatically increase the user’s “Battle Power”. This was very present in the early chapters and is the main reason Goku was able to take on Vegeta; the Kaioh Ken gives him a considerable powerboost at the cost of his body wearing faster and the Genki-Dama simply uses energy from another source. Finally, back then when The Elder Namekian read Krillin’s mind he identified Piccolo as the son of Kattatsu, a member of the dragon clan, and a prodigious with amazing potential…that got lowered severely when he split in two. This means Piccolo’s fusion with Kami goes beyond fusing with some guy to get more power; it’s basically becoming a complete being once again.
***** None of which changes the simple fact that other than on failed experiment by Yamcha the humans in particular but charachters in general have seen the results of training under extreme gravity or with a magical god putting ten ton donuts on your arms and yet they still decide to train under waterfalls. Given just how quickly the main cast got over the Saiyan and Frieza arcs (Raditz was supposedly by far the weakest named charachter in Frieza's army. By the time they reach Namek Krillan and Gohan are able to give Guldo, presumably in the top ten most powerful beings in the universe a good run for his money. Maybe the lack of transformations really is that crippling that they truly couldn't keep up but the point is they clearly aren't trying.
***** Gurdo was the weakest member of the team, you know; to the point Krillin wondered what he was doing there. The key word here is time, you see. Even if the humans trained with the same methods they would not develop their strength as fast as the Saiyans. Look at Piccolo, for example, who managed to surpass the power of the Super Saiyan for a short time by fusing with Kami only to quickly fall behind when new transformation stages were revealed. Last but not least, remember that Saiyans have greater longevity than humans.
** All the rationalizations aside, the humans were facing the SortingAlgorithmOfEvil in full force. The next BigBad always has to be a lethal challenge to the top fighters so secondary or tertiary fighters are useless in the final fight. This could have been remedied by the author if there was something worth doing beyond fighting the latest demi-god to get an anti-Saiyan rager. Even when the baddies have mooks and goons that lower-level humans can handle, it still makes more sense for Goku, Vegeta, or one of their kids to just mow them down rather than engage a prolonged fight that puts a human fighter in danger.
* Has anyone asked how Krillin and Android 18 had a child yet? I mean... she's an android... is Marron supposed to be fully human despite being birthed by a robot?
** This is a translation error. Androids 17 and 18 are not androids, they are cyborgs. As in regular people with augmentations, like Cyber Frieza. Marron would be 100% human as the daughter of two humans. This translation error is because the Japanese word "jinzouningen" is closer to artificial human than to android. It's the same reason Cell is technically Android 21 even though he's not a robot.
* How exactly do ''ki'' attacks injure/kill? Granted, sometimes we see people get blown to bits or annihilated utterly, but when Piccolo intercepted that shot from Nappa to protect Gohan, his body looked mostly intact, yet he died. Same for when Gohan got blasted point-blank by Majin Buu; he was obviously bloodied, and quite close to death, but there was nothing to show/tell exactly what kind of damage was done to his body. There are other examples, but it's been 2+ years since I've actually watched DBZ, so I can't remember them off-hand.
** Perhaps, rather than being a really hot ball of PureEnergy, a ki attack is more like a HardLight cannonball? Or a combination of those. The damage would be internal rather than really noticeable injuries for the stronger guys.
** Ether that or he absorbed the energy as heat across his body and it cooked him.
** That's what I figured myself. We see smoke coming from Piccolo after the attack, so while he physically looks...well...somewhat beaten up, his insides are just roasted meat, hence he dies.
* If Gohan was born with a tail, why weren't any of the other part-Saiyans?
** Real world answer? the producers were trying to distance themselves from the original series by limiting any more ''Monkey Boys.'' Notice how there are also no anthropomorphic animals either. I'm guessing its move away from adventure themed anime/manga to balls to the wall action anime/manga as well as the move away from the majority of the slapstick humour made them embarrassed of it; which if you agree with me that the original series was actually better than Z or GT it comes off as bit of an insult.
** They may have been born with tails, but their respective families (Gohan for Goten, Vegeta for Trunks) knew how to permanently remove the tails so they wouldn't have to deal with the 'possible giant ape on full moon' thing.
** WordOfGod / ShrugOfGod is that in saiyan/human crossbreeds, tails are recessive and Gohan's actually the freak of the bunch.
* Did Vegeta and Bulma actually got married? They are treated as husband and wife late in the series, and in GT at least with its dubious canonicity Bulma calls herself the Wife of the Prince of the Saiyajin; but I know that doesn't mean they actually did the whole process.
** I think we're supposed to assume they did the whole process during the three-year time skip before the Androids, or the seven-year time skip before Buu. You could ask the same of Krillin and 18. All we know is that they're apparently raising their daughter together, and apparently live together even though we don't see them do the actual wedding.
*** I believe in real life there's a concept called common-law marriage, where if two romantic partners live together for a long enough time they can be considered legally married in some jurisdictions. Maybe while parenting Trunks for seven years Bulma and Vegeta became married this way along the road?
** If Vegeta and Bulma actually got married instead of just going common-law, then it would have been in the post-Cell pre-Buu time skip. It's generally implied that their relationship started as a purely physical thing and they only ever really bonded over their kid, and even that was only really a thing because Vegeta spent so much time with future-Trunks during the Cell Saga.
* Where do Saiyanjin get psychic powers? I've seen a couple of fics in English mention them, but I'm pretty sure that in the Latin Dub (that's very close to the original) they don't have them. Did the English Dub gave the Saiyajin Psychic Powers or where they cut in Latin America?
** I seem to recall Goku catching up to speed telepathically when he first arrives on Namek.
** Before that, when in the hospital, after being beaten by Vegeta, he tries to train by levitating a glass of water.
* Yamcha's defeatism bugs me. In the original Dragon Ball and early Z series he loved fighting to the extent he would devote months to constant training and in Anime filler started a fight with an entire baseball team for fun. Come the end of Z, despite his previous joy of fighting reaching near Saiyan levels, he had completely given up. Now the accepted fan theory is that he became genre savvy enough to realize he could never surpass the Super Saiyan's. 1) This never stopped Krillin from enjoying himself at the 25th World Martial Arts tournament, despite knowing he didn't stand a chance against Goku and Vegeta ''and'' despite Krillin never really having the same eagerness to fight Yamcha did. Neither did this stop Tien from training day and night to the point he could avoid Buu's Human Extinction Attack. 2) In real life how many martial artists are up to the standard of Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris? 5% maybe? doesn't stop the other 95% entering tournaments for competition, fun and general fitness does it? So here we have a situation where Yamcha, the strongest human in the world barring Tien and Krillin, who
would almost certainly have won every single one of those Tournaments where Hercule was the only Z-Fighter competing - pathetically fizzling out for no adequate reason whatsoever.
** I couldn't say why he's lazy when alive, but when Buu kills him and he goes to the afterlife, he starts training intently again, to the point of amazing even Krillin.
** It bug me as well because even if Yamcha no longer wanted to fight super powered villains after his close brush with death during the Android sagas, he could still train and at least win the Budokai Tenkaichi tournaments barring no unusually powerful opponent appearing where he has no chance at winning (he's had bad luck at the early tournaments with Roshi posing as Jackie Chun, Tien, and Kami posing as "Hero" ). Yamcha could have been the "Champion of Earth" and not Mr Satan if he stayed competing. Yamcha is easily stronger than Mr Satan who has no grasp of Ki control and attacks. So his defeatist attitude really does suck.
*** And pray tell what would he achieve by becoming "champion of the earth"? Wealth? Fame? A city with his name? And when the next superpowered being comes to threaten the earth and the people call him for help he'll look down and whisper "no"? A lot of people can enjoy martial arts without having to enter a tournament or even sparring, you know. Yamcha is not looking to become the strongest like Goku and Vegeta nor does his life revolve around martial arts like Tenshinhan and Chaoz. He’s just a normal guy with other aspirations like Krillin. He’s already very powerful and doesn’t have to prove anything to anybody; moreover he’s more than willing to jump to action despite his limitations if it is for a good cause. Hardly the definition of “defeatist”.
**** For one, wealth. Yamcha once cancelled a date with Bulma for being broke. Or just competing for the fun of it since he did love the martial arts. only reason I would see him not bothering if he believed he had too much of an unfair advantage against the "normal" competitors. He also could inspire the people of Earth just as Mr Satan did only he knows the real heroes very well. While things worked out for everyone else, Yamcha has nothing to show for all his training as TheEveryman.
***** Admitedly its possible that that was before he became a successful career in sports but it still makes no sense for Yamcha to give up fighting considering how much he loved it. Its said in Dragon Ball he's always wanted to win the World Martial Arts Tournament and we're shown many times that Yamcha greatly enjoys just competing and training, so it makes little sense for him to give up fighting or the Martial Arts tournaments.
** That always used to bother me too until I has a stroke of FridgeBrilliance and worked out the exact moment that he would have come to that decision - when he was defeated by Android 19. He had the same three year warning as everyone else, was trained by the world's greatest martial arts masters Roshi and Kami, was there at every major battle the Z Fighters have ever had, was pumped, determined... and was effortlessly defeated without even a punch thrown. Now he '''Might''' have been able to get over that setback '''If''' mere hours later he wasn't forced to sit back and watch as his best friend and rival Tien was able to hold off Semi-Perfect Cell with the Tri-Beam; a fighter infinitesimally stronger than the minor Androids he had lost so easily to beforehand. That, combined with all his other crippling defeats, was finally enough to tip him over the edge and hang up his trademarked orange suit. With that knowledge in hand, Yamcha's words to Goku just prior to the Cell Games "I will come but I won't fight" take on a ''whole'' new meaning.
*** Tenshinhan wasn't even Yamcha's ''friend'', let alone best friend. Tenshinhan's only friend is Chiaotzu. Also, the two were '''never''' rivals, they only had one battle against each other and that was their first meeting. Also, I hope you mean Semi-Perfect Cell is the "fighter infinitesimally stronger than the minor Androids", because Tenshinhan was obviously much weaker than the Androids, like Yamcha.
**** While Tenshinan and Yamcha aren't best friends, they are shown to be friends in the series and yeah they were rivals. Anyway Tenshinan was the strongest of the Earthlings for most of the series and Neo Tri-beam is one of(or the) strongest attack in the series, and seeing the strongest of them only stall Semi-Perfect with his strongest attack(using up his lifeforce in the process) must've been disheartening to the other Human fighters. This would explain why he would give up helping fight on the Front lines but does not in anyway explain why Yamcha gave up Martial Arts.
**** And who said he gave up martial arts? For all we see of Yamcha during his free time he could be still training at his own pace, taking part in some street fighting or even giving out self-defense classes. As for the Tenkaichi Budokai, remember the entire island where the last tournament in Dragon Ball took place was completely devastated by Piccolo's last attack; God knows how many years passed before the damage could be repaired. Then came the saiyajins, the whole being dead thing, then the androids, then Cell, etc. By the time they could participate again Yamcha figured it wasn't worth it. Sure, Krillin decided to take part but he was lucky to face against some poor sap and as soon as he went to the front lines he was deemed trash by Dabura and turned to stone. Last but not least, after the defeat of Buu, Mr. Satan had basically rigged the whole tournament by having Fat Buu participate, beat up everybody and "lose" against him.
**** Had Yamcha had remained competing and been "Champion Of Earth" instead of Mr. Satan, there would be know rigging of the tournament like that. the tournament itself had become meaningless and just a show stage for Mr. Satan. It only makes me wish more somebody stronger than Mr Satan competed against him.
* It has always been my opinion that Yamcha only cared about fighting while he was still extremely shy and withdrawn, after dating Bulma his interest in training waned and then after breaking up he threw himself right back into it, but it was never quite the same for him, the old passion was gone and so he only trained when the situation called for it. I think Yamcha is more concerned with the quest for booty than training nowadays.
* Okay I know DBZ isn't exactly known for its romance (wow that's an understatement) but seriously, all the couples (I'm only counting the first generation, Gohan and Videl don't count, mostly because while they had development I found them unbelievably boring) on this show are either completely incompatible or just have no real emotion connection with each other. (excluding Bulma and Vegeta, who are similar enough in personality and seem to genuinely enjoy the SlapSlapKiss thing they have going on enough to actually seem compatible). I mean Goku married [=ChiChi=] because she forced him into it, and seems to make every effort to not interact with her and leaves her for long periods of time without seeming to miss her or regret leaving her at all. Krillen and Android 18 are just....weird, there was no real development building up to their relationship (I know, I know, maybe I'm asking too much but even B/V had a whole mini plot going in both anime and manga, it wasn't long or detailed but it was there at least) it was just like one day he said 'i love you' and she was like 'sure why not.'
** For what it's worth, Toriyama has stated that he doesn't know how to write romance, which is part of the reasons for the long timeskips, with the kids' existence starting as shorthand for "yes, their parents are still together."
** I attribute Goku and Chi-Chi's relationship to this: They DO genuinely care about each other, really. It's just that sometimes their marriage lends itself to the RuleOfFunny. It's more fun to see her flip out than take so much of it in stride (filler or not, I thought SHE was going to go Super Saiyan when she got lip from Krillin's first girlfriend). And I don't believe she forced him, he went along willingly (that's what I got from the dub). You really think a guy that can level mountains would stay with a woman that berates him so much if he didn't love her? Or that she would stay with a slow-witted bruiser if she didn't find something charming and loveable? As for Krillin...that guy gets so much abuse, so little credit, and doesn't get to be shown as powerful as he should be. I take #18 as Karma rewarding the guy. Yeah, it would've been interesting to see just HOW that relationship blossomed, but like you said, it's not what the show's about.
** Correction: Vegeta and Bulma's mini-arc was pure filler in the anime. In the manga the only thing suggesting an attraction was Bulma telling him to behave himself while he stayed at her house. The anime added in filler because the relationship basically came out of nowhere because Toriyama needed another [=SSJ=] and [[PairtheSpares Bulma was the only girl left.]]
** The correction is partially right. While Bulma was picked because she was the only woman of the group left to bare the next [=SSJ=], Toriyama has stated in an interview that the filler had accurately summarized his idea on how the two started to become involved (mostly on Bulma's part before her break up with Yamcha). It wasn't in the manga because, as a troper stated earlier, Toriyama didn't think he could write anything romantic and thus left it out.
** Also, Krillin and 18 did have development, at least on a one-sided basis. Krillin crushed on her because of a combination of her whimsical kiss on the cheek and his slow realization that she and her brother were barely any more evil than he was as a kid. Acting on this all, when he could've suspended her with the controller Bulma built and destroyed her, he instead broke the controller, tried to urge her to run, and then fought by her side to fend Cell off even if it was in vain. After Gohan forced Cell to cough her up at the Cell Games (which has been debated about here as well), Krillin went and tended to her side for the duration of the battle. In the aftermath up on the lookout, she realized his feelings for her and got upset for a cup of coffee, but after watching how, when the gang summoned Shenron and had no ideas for the last wish, Krillin worked to spend it on her and her brother's behalf, she came to accept his kindness to a decent enough degree before leaving (although I'm not sure how much of this sentence was or wasn't filler, so take it as you may).
** So you say there is '''no''' romantic developments in the same sentence as mentioning a couple that did have romantic development? Just because you didn't like it, doesn't mean you can say there is no development. Gohan/Videl isn't the only couple to get development, either.
* Why didn't Baba get any strong fighters from the past to help out agaisnt the Saiyans/Androids/Buu? I guess Buu fight of been too strong for anyone in otherworld, and POSSIBLY the Androids/Cell, but surely there was someone who had millions of years to train was strong enough to take down Vegeta and Nappa.
** Picon (Pikon?) was the strongest of their lot and was explicitly outclassed by Goku. It wouldn't have helped.
*** Pikhan was outclassed by Goku ''after the Cell Games''. He would have been far and away the stronger back in the Saiyan Saga.
** Pikhan was filler. Also, why makes you think Baba *could* get Pikhan? There's no reason to think that Baba can get anyone from anywhere in the galaxy, and there might well have never been anyone on Earth strong enough to fight Vegeta.
** Baba can't just go and get some dead warrior to fix the living problems, it's the live people who should take care of their own business, besides you only get one day to return from the afterlife and if those warriors hadn't already used theirs up then probably they wouldn't want to use it on that.
*** This unfortunately raises a massive plothole. Baba has an army that consists of four warriors permanently at her base - Spike the Devil Man, Fangs the vampire, the Invisible man and a Mummy. Now, these guys are incredibly weak by even King Piccolo's standards, explaining why we don't see them again. But... Spike the Devil Man has access to the Devilmite Beam, an attack capable of literally making the heart ''explode'' of any living fighter that doesn't have a pure heart. This technique works immediately and is capable of fully working even if there is the ''faintest trace of evil.'' This makes it one of the most powerful and devastating anti-personnel techniques in the entire Dragon Ball universe. Spike could one-shot ''any'' of the Saiyan Warriors, both Piccolo's, Frieza, the Ginyu Force, Baby, Omega Shenron and even a good percentage of the Z-Warriors. Remember how Goku was immune to the Devilmite Beam because of his pure heart? well Super Saiyan amplifies a Saiyans aggressive instincts making them cold and vicious - essentially meaning Spike could even kill Super Saiyan 4 Goku, Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks, Super Saiyan 2 Gohan and even Vegito. The only exceptions would be Cell and Buu due to their regenerative capabilites. Why have we never seen this guy again? why didn't Baba or any of her superiors in Otherworld order her to send Spike into battle alongside the Z Warriors? and why hasn't anyone tried to copy this technique given that it is essentially the most powerful non-destructive force in the history of the universe?
**** If it's capable of working if there is even the faintest trace of evil, [[EarthShatteringKaboom what would happen if it was used on someone that ridiculously evil?]]
*** We don't really see MUCH evidence that going Super Saiyan makes you cold, evil or particularly aggressive. Goku becomes Super Saiyan and tries as hard as he can, to the point of giving him some energy so he can escape the dying world, to spare the man who'd just killed his best friend. That's not cold, it's barely aggressive. Vegeta doesn't change, nor does Trunks. Level 2 makes Gohan more aggressive but as we've seen from Gohan vs Raditz, Vegeta and Cell I'd say the common theme here is "DON'T HURT MY DADDY". I've always felt that Super Saiyan's rage was always a huge missed opportunity. Unlike Tailed Naruto or Masked Ichigo where even friends need to be on notice.
**** Because Super Saiyan is the master form. The "dangerous to friend and foe alike" is covered by the Oozaru form.
*** I wouldn't call it a plothole per se, just a case of ForgottenPhlebotinum that sort of makes sense. Not sure one could assume that technique could be copied either. Funnily enough, I think this technique is played for laughs in one of the Dragon Ball Z games(BT 3??) in where the move deals great damage under certain circumstances.
*** I agree with the above troper, and I'd also like to point out that ''"these guys are incredibly weak by even King Piccolo's standards"''. That technique didn't seem particularly fast/instantaneous to me, and I'm sure everyone near the level of King Piccolo would be fully able to avoid it.
*** It is definitely a forgotten plebotinum. According the the dragonball wiki, which is pretty accurate down to the gun random mooks use, BT3 has a "What If?" story putting him against both Freeza and King Cooler. He wins easily thanks to his devil beam. He would have a decent chance of fighting of most of the villains in the series, assuming they don't kill him first. And when was the last time anyone killed anyone in DBZ before they could use their ultimate attack?
** Hell, why didn't Baba warn the Z-Fighters of every villain!? She clearly can see into the future, as seen at the end of the original series, so why didn't she look into the future, find the villain's weakpoint ("GRAB HIS TAIL! Like when you were a child!"), and tell them? Would've saved a lot of trouble! ("When you get to Namek, there will be a creature who is more powerful than Vegeta, and will kill your best friend!")
*** She stated just before the battle against the Saiyans that she wasn't able to predict the outcome of the fight. In the Fridge Brilliance section there's an interesting hint that all the time travel from Trunks and Cell could have messed up with her ability.
* Why can't Piccolo hatch demon warriors like Demon King Piccolo could? I mean, they're both standard Namekians, and Piccolo is a clone of his dad, after all. Come to think of it, why didn't Nail just hatch himself an army once Frieza started killing stuff? Come to think of it again, why didn't Kami try that once he got wind of Vegeta and Nappa? Before you say "too old", Demon King Piccolo made Tambourine and Cymbal before wishing himself back to youth. And even if they were fairly weak, an army would've been nice to have against the saiyans.
** Good news for you: the live action movie combines Picollo Daimaoh with Picollo Jr., thus giving "Picollo" the ability to summon monsters.
** '''A)''' IIRC, generating a minion of useful strength literally took years off King Piccolo's life. Piccolo Jr. most likely knew this and preferred to rely on his own power.\\
'''B)''' As we saw when Piccolo and Krillin used the Tri-form against Nappa, and he swatted them, it probably wouldn't have helped much.
** The way I see it, that's just not Piccolo's style under any situation, and we all saw what came of the ''last'' guy made out of Kami, so I can see him being apprehensive about the idea.
** And Yajirobe, who is no match for Demon King Piccolo, was '''''literally''''' eating Demon Warriors for breakfast.
** He could have at least used them against those weird little plant man minons that Nappa planted, so as to even the playing field...
*** Each of the Saibamen was as strong as Raditz was. He didn't want to risk any kids being killed instantly- he was starting to have a Main/HeelFaceTurn, so he wouldn't want to ''give birth'' literally for no reason but to condemn the kids to death.
*** Incidentally, this probably explains where Cell got the ability to produce offspring.
* How the HFIL is Gohan such a remarkably well-adjusted individual? Lets review his childhood, shall we?
** Age 4-5(Raditz, Piccolo's training): Dad dies. Main/TrainingFromHell by ''Satan'' away from home and family
*** Technically, Satan ''junior'', who is Satan's clone-son, but still....
**** So, not The Devil, The Antichrist.
***** [[DragonBallZAbridged "DODGE!"]]
** Age 5-7(In Space): In space, still away from home and family, "company" and adult influences a grown woman pushing 30 and childlike midget. Witness to genocide, fighting for own life nigh-constantly. Best friend/only adult influence (the childlike midget) dies.
** Age 7-8(Between return to earth and arrival of Trunks, Garlic Jr. goes here) : Vacation, at home. Everyone on earth suddenly against him, ''must save God'', fighting closest family and friends. Dad MIA.
*** Garlic Jr. is insignificant anime filler.
**** Still, must have been psychologically taxing in the animeverse.
***** But the animeverse is insignificant filler and thus has no bearing on Gohan's canon psychology.
****** I disagree. While the anime is filled with stuff that wasn't in the manga and filler material, it does have some level of canon. I know it's hard to accept what with all the contradictions but the anime IS the next highest level of canon after the manga. However Garlic Junior seems to be somewhat of an exception, as it has no mention at all in the manga and thus is a bit disputed.
****** Screw it, lets just call them two alternate universes. Mangaverse becomes Dragon Ball Online, Animeverse becomes GT, all the arguing over filler, canon and stuff just ends and everybody is happy.
** Age 8-11(training for androids, androids): More Main/TrainingFromHell, threat of apocalyptic level robots killing everyone he knows and loves hanging over his head. Followed by several weeks of on the run and hiding from undetectable killer robots.
*** He doesn't consider it training from hell at all. He's with his Dad and beloved Piccolo, after all.
**** The threat of killer robots fated to kill them all probably weighed on his mind a bit
** 11-12(year in Room of Spirit and Time): Still more training, now in nigh-solitary confinement with nigh-sensory deprivation, uncomfortable climate, and extreme gravity
*** Doesn't consider it training from hell.
**** What? Goku himself points out that he woudn't have been able to psychologically handle it at Gohan's age. ''Nobody'' could be there for any extended period of time without going loco. It may have been fun for the first few weeks, but not much past.
***** To clarify, he doesn't consider it TrainingFromHell because he's with his Dad. If he was alone like Goku was at that age, of course he wouldn't be able to stand it either.
** Age 12(vs Cell): Sees dad die ''again'', bit of a mental breakdown seen while fighting Cell. Saves world (barely), extreme injury, no recognition or appreciation whatsoever.
*** No argument there.
*** At least he hears his Dad say "Gohan, I'm ''so'' proud of you!"
*** *sniffle* CrowningMomentOfHeartwarming *sniffle*
*** He doesn't really care about recognition. On the other hand, him indulging his super powered evil side is the reason that Goku was dead in the first place.
** 12-19(pre-Buu timeskip): Living at home in boonies with psycho mother and no contact with any of closest friends
*** Mother is not psycho. Grandfather is there too. Beloved little brother is around too. Does not appear to mind living in the boonies.
**** Not psycho? She's literally trying to suppress the instincts of 50% of his genome and putting the planet at risk so she can have a smart son. And he doesn't mind? He's probably just bottling any problems up.
***** To him she's not psycho. Remember he ''does'' want to be a scholar, far more than he wants to fight, despite his great fighting potential.
*** Has contact with other people. It is mentioned he visits Trunks (and obviously Trunks and Goten play together), and Bulma told him ''before'' going to school that showing his new strength could be trouble. I assume given he isn't as clueless as his father, he takes advantage of his speed to visit Kame House on occasion. He is still seems to have no friends his age, but he does have social contact outside his family. Although, now that I think about it, he does visit Dende, who is roughly his age, despite being God and all.
* How the hell did a guy with his formative years spent like that end up a well-adjusted functioning member of society easily mistakable in manner for a librarian, and not a semi-psychopathic bundle of neuroses?
** Well, right around where your list ends, he becomes active as the Great Saiyaman. Is this well-adjusted? Sure, there's all kinds of stuff going on in this Verse, but Sentai heroism comes across as... less than sane. Also, he retires from any and all serious villain-bashing at this point, despite being powerful enough to turn some of those tides (Buu Saga fuck-up notwithstanding).
*** Would you really want to see The Great Saiyaman as a NinetiesAntiHero?
**** Yes, yes I would. Also, his "human" persona seems to be a bit StepfordSmiler in post-Cell Z, and shallow in GT. This troper assumes he stayed snapped after Cell, and just used some psychological cellophane tape instead of trying to work things out nice and proper. (Perfect fodder for a 90s antihero Great Saiyaman.)
*** Given how unflappable both his parents are, it would've been more surprising if he ''was'' more screwed up.
*** And, even besides that his whole Great Saiyaman thing, he's screwed up anyway. When he gets angry he turns into a brutally different person? Who loves to sadistically beat the life out of anyone who angers him? Yeah, that's normal... And, even said, there was a pretty good story on [[http://www.fanfiction.net a particular website many of us know of]] that deals with Babidi choosing him as his Majin warrior instead of Vegeta just for the sadistic hell of it.
** And after all, the kid is half-Saiyan. Judging by what little we know of Saiyan society it seems to be a rather brutal, militaristic, and chaotic lifestyle. The traditional Saiyan childhood probably involves a lot of fighting for one's life and watching friends and family members get killed. Setting aside the psychological implications of the whole Great Saiyaman thing, maybe Saiyans are just naturally better at dealing with emotional trauma.
** Gohan's been surrounded all his life by people who've grown up among chaos, violence and weirdness, presumably they've helped him adapt to that kind of life, especially Piccolo. That, and he seems to have inherited his happy-go-lucky streak from his father. As for the physical trauma, I'm pretty sure that after all that TrainingFromHell he doesn't mind at all. That and Saiyans seem to have a pretty high pain tolerance.
** Btw, according to my math, Gohan would've been between 9 and a half and 10 when he fought Cell, not 12. In DBZ volume 20 it says he is 16 years old, and then Chichi mentions it's been 7 years since she last saw Goku. 16-7 = 9, 10 at most if he'll be 17 later that year.
*** He was six during the Namek saga, year later Frieza shows up on Earth(seven), three years later the Androids show up(ten), spends the better part of a year inside the hyperbolic time chamber(eleven) and fights Cell. So he's ten/eleven during the Cell fight; I could be remembering it wrong and if I'm not it was probably just anime filler, but I'm fairly sure there was an episode detailing his eleventh birthday party just prior to the cell games, actually.
*** I think the "five" age in the original English dub was a deliberate translation error. Not sure what difference that would make.
* Now that the Dragon Balls are as easy to find as picking flowers, how come Vegeta has never tried to bring back Planet Vegeta and his family? By the end of the series he's powerful enough that none of them would be a match for him, and Goku would just swat them down if they tried to take over any planets.
** For the same reason Superman didn't travel back in time to save Krypton, or Batman didn't travel back in time to save his parents, even thought the JLA Watchtower has a time machine: because the story says so.
** By that time, the Earth Dragon Balls could've only restored the planet, not the people. (One-year time limit to resurrect someone). The Namekian Dragon Balls could've circumvented this (maybe), but you'd need to make the wishes in the Namek native tongue. And The Nameks wouldn't have helped him (and not just because they'd remember him killing as many of their kind as Frieza).
** I'm talking at any time in the series, not just during the Namek saga. After Buu, maybe. If necessary have Goku make the wish for you (bait him with the thought of super strong fighters). What I'm wondering is why Vegeta never even thought of it.
*** Still would've been far too late to resurrect the people with the Earth Dragon Balls (even the Goku!Balls)
**** Not necessarily. They had Dende as a new god who could make new Dragon Balls with new rules.
**** Which he did, and they ''still'' couldn't.
**** I don't remember them saying at that point that the old rule was still in effect. So many old rules had been tossed out at that point anyway.
** Use the Earth Dragon Balls to find out how to phrase the wish in Namekian, then use the Namekian ones to make the main wish.
*** Which still leaves you with the problem with the Nameks saying "no".
*** Also (as reminded by the Main/DeaderThanDead section), the Namek Dragon Balls ''can'' resurrect dead people multiple times, but it was explicitly stated that they can only bring back one person per wish. (See Piccolo's resurrection)
**** This limitation did no longer apply to the new Dragon Balls. During the Buu-Saga, they were able to revive all humans at the same time.
** Why would Vegeta ''want'' to bring back his family? He's expressed his disdain for them several times in the series (notably to Doria and later to Freezer). He explicitly says he's not using the Dragon Balls to bring back Raditz, and he kills Nappa himself. The only Saiyan he ever gets any kind of respect for is Goku, and the first time he admits it is towards the end of the Cell arc.
*** There's a big difference between Vegeta not liking Raditz or his family all that much and Vegeta not caring that his ''entire species'' was essentially extinct. I mean, I guess you could say Vegeta didn't want to risk any other Saiyan surpassing him in power (early in the Frieza Saga he got all bent out of shape that a "common soldier" like Goku turned out to be more powerful than him) but even that seems a bit of a stretch...
** Vegeta couldn't revive his race if he wanted to. Of course, when he realized Goku was resurrected, he thought of wishing for his own immortality before the Saiyan race. But even then, the Saiyans had been wiped out for ''twenty-five'' years. Arguably nothing could be done. Also, the resurrection of the Nameks killed by Freeza or in his name were resurrected. Not those by Vegeta. One would presume that they couldn't revive that group if they wanted. However, it would seem the Namekian Dragon Balls also have a one-year limit to death. Or in their case, three Namekian years. Also, what good is reviving the planet (If possible. It was destroyed over several decades ago), if the Dragon God can't revive the people?
** A better question would have been, why didn't Vegeta use Earth's Dragon Balls to wish himself immortal? He considered it, but then just forgot about it. Isn't there a HandWave or something?
*** If I'm not mistaken, the reason why he wanted immortality in the first place was to always be able to eventually kill Freeza, no matter how many times he lost. After Freeza's death and attaining a family, it wasn't important to him anymore.
* Why has no one ever called Goku on his selfish bullshit? He'd disappear for - literally - years at a time, without a word to anyone. He decides it's time to come back how and EVERYONE (Except Vegeta) is all "OMG GOKU! YAYZ!"
** Because it's not selfish most of the time. See here:
-->Splits from the group after Pilaf.
---->Reason: Roshi offered to let him live there; Goku said he would after the Dragon Balls were collected.
-->Leaves after 21st Tournament
---->To find his grandpa's Dragon Ball, and meets with everyone again over the next couple days anyway
-->Leaves after Baba's tournament
---->Roshi orders him to train on his own all over the world.
-->Leaves after the 22nd Tournament
---->To get vengeance for Krillin's death.
-->Stays on Kami's Lookout after King Piccolo
---->Deal to restore the Dragon Balls; everyone dies anyway if he doesn't.
-->Leaves after 23rd Tournament
---->Has a wife.
-->Leaves after Raditz.
---->Dead. And everyone else is dead if he doesn't jump through some Otherworld hoops.
-->Says no to coming back on Porunga's wish
---->In the middle of teleportation training, and learning to control the violent Super Saiyan form.
-->Leaves after Cell
---->Dead, can't be wished back. Note that even without his goodbye speech, Shenron had already said "Nope, can't do it" so it was a moot point.
** Only at the end of Z does he just run off for selfish reason, and we don't get to see the reactions to him coming back.
** I was referring more to his DBZ absences. He didn't owe anybody anything in Dragon Ball and was free to come and go as he chose. The ones I was referring to:
*** After Frieza: Chose not to come back, spends two more years in space. Doesn't tell anyone why.
**** I think the reason given for this was that he was learning how to control his newfound Super Saiyan powers out of fear that he would accidentally transform and hurt someone.
**** No, he never mentioned that. Goku's stated reason in canon is that he's learning teleportation from the Yadarat, and it took him a while year to learn it.
** After Cell: Shenron couldn't bring him back for the same reason he couldn't simply yank him back after Frieza: He can't directly effect someone stronger than him, against his will (The same reason he couldn't simply zap Nappa and Vegeta before they got to Earth). With his wife and son listening in, he straight up states he doesn't want to come back. Note that he's an even bigger JerkAss in the manga. At least in the anime he gives some bullshit "everything bad that's happened is directly my fault and if I'm gone, those things won't happen" excuse. In the Manga? "All the strong guys are dead or related to me. Earth is boring, I'm going exploring."
*** Don't make stuff up. In the manga he uses the same "everything bad that's happened is directly my fault and if I'm gone, those things won't happen" excuse, and this is '''AFTER''' Shenlong has said he can't bring Goku back '''not because''' he can't yank him back but because the new Dragon Balls that Dende made can't bring back anyone who has already been resurrected. Goku ''can't'' come back either way you cut it. And in fact, Goku is '''never''' revived by the Dragon Balls for the rest of the series. Read the post above you again. And read the manga too while you're at it.
**** They could easily have used the Earth Dragon Balls to teleport to New Namek and use their Dragon Balls to wish back Goku. Fact is, Goku didn't come back because he didn't want to. Which makes him a self-centred dick abandoning his family. Although you could argue that saving the universe earns him some leeway, but still.
** After Buu - runs off from his wife and TWO sons (one of which he'd just found out about) to go train the Uub, Buu's reincarnation.
*** "After Buu"? "Just found out about"? He stayed with his family for ten years after Buu's death before running off to train Uub.
**** There's also nothing that indicated he didn't make trips to visit his family during the training period of Uub (and GT doesn't exist in canon, so don't bring it up) it's not like it'd take him more than 5 seconds with his teleportation.
**** In fact, he explicitly mentions to Pan that he will visit (in episode 276/291 in the anime). He says this in the manga too, btw.
** Also, this is part of the charm of Chichi/Milk's character: she's the only one who sees Goku as a selfish asshole who constantly runs away from his home and family to fight.
*** 'Charm'? There's a word I've never heard in connection to Chi-Chi.
*** Try "lethal fascination."
** Would YOU want to be Chichi's husband?
*** [[@/MacPhisto Oh yeah]]. [[FamilyGuy I would wreck that chick]].
** Also, if you point out out Goku ''loves'' a good fight (not marital), and loves a good rival even better, being a Saiyan, Goku just felt compelled to train Uub. Yes. That's right. The word is ''train''. Not so selfish when you look at it from that point of view is it? I mean, only a guy like Goku would want to help a boy with a vast potential control his powers so that he can be a hero like him. And that's not say he didn't have his rematch with Vegeta, say hello to his many friends and visit and spend time with his family.
*** Given everyone's reaction when he reappeared in GT, I'd say he didn't visit, or at least he didn't very often. And, frankly, it's not that training Uub did all that much good, in the long run.
**** Who cares what GT says? Discontinuity, anyone?
***** FanonDiscontinuity (and Fanon) are an individual thing, not a "you have to agree" thing. I see it as, Animeverse leads to GT, Mangaverse leads to Online. And I prefer the Animeverse.
***** Not quite true. GT relies on Z more so than Z leads to GT, although in some dubs you see GT foreshadowing from Z (like Elder Kai's opposition to using the dragon balls). "Animeverse" is supposed to be the "Mangaverse" with more depth (ie: it relies on it).
**** Besides, the cast never keep in contact with each other between arcs.
**** Well, before the final tournament Bulma points that Goku is the only one who doesn't show at reunions.
** Okay, just so that I can include a bit more on the whole not coming back at the end of the Cell Games: Yeah, okay, Shenlong couldn't bring him back, because he was wished back to life once before. However, Goku ''could've'' been selfless this time and simply said, "Okay! Use the Namekian dragonballs! King Kai and I know where it is, and we'll help you get there!" He was being a total ass to his son and wife. If I were Gohan, I would've turned into [=SSJ2=] and asked Shenlong to teleport me to whereever Goku was and beat the crap out of him.
*** You won't find many people defending Goku's actions, particularly not as they pertain to his obligations as a father and husband. He did have a solid point though about how he seems to be the source of everything that goes wrong and depending on how you want to look at it he's not wrong. Raditz came to pick him up, Vegeta and Nappa came to get the Dragonballs they heard about from Raditz, his friends went to Namek to revive friends who wouldn't have died if not for Vegeta and Nappa. Which attracts Frieza. The andriods may still have been an issue. Without a distraction from Goku however Vegeta would have ended Buu pretty quickly. So while he's more easily forgiven than Vegeta for his part in the world being in peril all the time, he's not wrong.
**** Actually when you think about it Piccolo is far more responsible for the early events of the series than Goku because of the fact it was his fault Vegeta and Nappa were summoned due to having shot his mouth off about the Dragonballs in the range of Raditz's Scouter. Given how neither of them particularly seemed to care that much about him there is a good chance they would have just ignored the Earth and continued on their way. The Androids and Cell were still entirely Goku's fault though as they are a direct consequence of him annihilating the Red Ribbon Army years beforehand and there is really no question the Z Fighters would have been eliminated. Without the Saiyan threat Goku would have had no reason to have sought out King Kai's training as Piccolo would have been his only serious enemy - which means no Kaioken, no Spirit Bomb and ultimately no Super Saiyan. So yeah; Goku is absolutely correct in saying that his presence does indeed endanger the planet.
***** The androids were specifically modeled to be stronger than Goku when Gero last observed him in his battle with Vegeta. If his final battle had been vs Raditz instead (Remember he jumped from three hundred to over 9000 in this gap) the androids presumably would have been MUCH MUCH weaker. Weak enough that the power of team work would have still been viable like it was against Nappa.
* Why didn't Piccolo take over as guardian of earth at some point after the Cell Saga? By that point he was considerably stronger than a regular super saiyan; one of the most stated limitations of the dragon balls is the dragon can't affect beings stronger than its creator. If Piccolo took over and made a new dragon, then Shenron's powers would presumably vastly increase. While this wasn't necessarily an immediate concern, what with Gohan and Vegeta still around to handle any threats during this time, Piccolo was going to outlive them and the dragon balls would still be around for hundreds of years, giving future generations a huge advantage.
** Because by that point, Dende was the new Guardian of the Earth. Either it just never occured to Piccolo that he could take over after Kami, or he didn't want the job (didn't he once comment how he thought Kami's job was a waste?) I mean, if he did want to be the new guardian, he would've cut Goku's search short by saying that he'd gladly do it.
** The reason Kami and Piccolo separated in the first place was because the evil that was inside the Nameless Namekian, which made him unfit to become Kamisama. After they reunited Piccolo was again unfit to become Earth's god so Dende had to stay permanently in place, he wasn't a temporal solution. Also, apparently only a Namek in a Planet's guardian/god position (Kami, Guru) is able to make Dragonballs in the first place, so there.
*** Except the evil inside the Nameless Namekian disqualifying him to be Kamisama was the OPINION of the previous Kami. He apparently was strong enough that he had to give up his position or at least the Namelss was polite enough not to force his hand. Also where is it stated that only a God/Gaurdian can create Dragonballs?
* I know that Dragonball Z isn't really known for its scientific accuracy, but how come the Z fighters are able to hear each other while they're flying? The roar of the wind rushing past their ears should be enough to drown their voices out even if they're yelling. And let's not forget that later in the series these characters are clearly flying faster than the speed of sound (it's been mentioned several times that they're able to fly faster than the fastest jets), so in those cases they'd be outrunning the sounds their own voices, and then their voices would be drowned out by the sonic boom.
** Ki enhanced hearing. Yes its a cop out but ''everything'' in this series is the result of either ki or magic.
* Chilled was incredibly powerful, a lot more than we saw. We know that Frieza's species doesn't actually transform "up" to gain power, they transform DOWN to control their radical power. Chilled in his most restrained form was able breifly to hold off an attack from a Super Saiyan. Compare this to Frieza who needed his 4th form to fight a NON Super Saiyan. Judging by how much more powerful Frieza's 4th and Cooler's 5th form are Chilled probably would have curb stomped Bardock in form 2.
** I'm sorry but [[FlatWhat who is Chilled?]] because he sounds like he has AssPull level powers to me.
** He is the villain from the new Bardock manga and Ova, an ancestor of Frieza's family who fought [=SSJ=] Bardock and was defeated. Speaking of which, Bardock was around 10k points in the Special, if he got a Zenkai after Frieza's attack his power may have raised to around 20k, so when he transformed into [=SSJ=] his power would have gone up to around 500k-1M, if Bardock was able to defeat Chilled he would have had to be much weaker than that, which makes him inferior to Form 1 Frieza.
** I'm not going to argue Personal Continuity here because we all have the right to discover our own interpretation of how a story should be told. However plot holes as glaring as that one is why barely canon manga/films such as this tend to drag down the entire franchise. For example if we were to assume both Chilled and Cooler are real, then how the hell did Frieza become so feared and powerful when he was so god damn weak in comparison to the rest of his family? Also the family theme naming is starting to get pretty ridiculous. I would bet real money we will one day encounter the dreaded Icebox.
*** You could make argument that Frieza is the most powerful member of his family. Chilled never got started, all we know for certain is he couldn't beat a Super Saiyan in his weakest form. As for Cooler he had to transform to a fifth form to fight Goku and got destroyed when Goku went Super Saiyan. All the evidence suppors Frieza>Cooler. King Cold and Chilled we honestly don't have enough data to chart them.
**** Fourth form Frieza was 120million, Fifth form Cooler was 470million(Frieza was stronger than Cooler's fourth form, though). That being said, we're not entirely clear on how the species transformations work. Yes, we know they transform down to limit their power instead of transforming up to increase it, and yes we know that Frieza's fourth form was his true form. We do not, however, know for certainty that Chilled wasn't in his true form when he fought Bardock. Likewise, we don't know that Cold is actually in his "second form" or that Cooler is actually in his "fourth form". Just because their appearances are similar to Frieza's various forms doesn't mean they have the same number or equate to the same relative level of power.
**** Where is it documented that Fifth Form Cooler was 470 million? Super Saiyan Goku wasn't that much stronger than Frieza and in Cooler's revenge he clearly hadn't managed to master transforming at will. I find it hard to believe he was over 500 million in the movie.
**** Freezer’s battle power was one million five hundred thousand while Goku’s was three million. Heck, to give you an idea, Broly’s BP is thirty three million; enough to beat up the Super Saiyan 2 with ease. So yeah, four hundred and seventy million is a bit of an exaggeration. That aside, I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to assume Cooler has a better control of his powers as well as having surpassed the limits by getting an extra transformation. Can’t speak about King Cold, though. And as for Chilled…evidently Toriyama was in the need to remodel his kitchen.
* Seriously - why was Tien the only one not willing to let Vegeta off the hook for all the nasty things he did? Not attacking him because he could kill you without effort is one thing. But the other Z-Senshi were downright chummy with him. (Well, as chummy as you could be with Vegeta).
** Yamcha never had much of a backbone, Krillin outright says he doesn't antagonize Vegeta (and Piccolo, for that matter) so they won't go on a rampage, Gohan has practically zero interaction with him, and Goku's just that kind of guy. Nobody else is anywhere near his weight class.
** Also, think about what happened to Tien in the Saiyan Arc. Sure, Piccolo and Yamcha also died at Nappa's hand, but Tien had to watch Chiaotzu die in a vain attempt to kill Nappa, and then he had his freaking arm torn off before he died too.
*** Speaking of which, Nappa killed all their friends,and Vegeta killed Nappa.So,shouldn't that help his case?
**** Nope, because he didn't kill him out of repentance or penance but because Nappa was embarrassing him. It's the thought that counts, not the deed.
** By the time Cell and the androids rolled around, even Ten Shin Han accepted Vegeta as part of the team.
** Even with all these guys, to call their relationships "chummy" is an extreme exaggeration. They put up with him and vice-versa, but all the way to the end of the Cell saga, the only one who even tries to be friendly with Vegeta is Goku. Even Gohan keeps his distance until the Saiyaman saga, by which point Vegeta had softened up considerably.
** Except for Bulma, who has a kid by and later MARRIES the man responsible for her ex-boyfriend's death.
*** Well, Krillin implied/told Bulma during Freeza's return episodes that it would be a good idea to become friends with Vegeta so that he can do a HeelFaceTurn. They are likely "Friends with Benefits," by the Cell Saga.
*** Even Bulma still thinks he's a huge jerk all the way to the end of Cell Saga...which leaves us fans to be eternally tormented by the question of how exactly they got far enough to err, produce Trunks. This troper suspects alcohol was involved.
**** This troper agrees with the above statement about alcohol.
**** The Cell Saga made it clear that what Vegeta and Bulma had was lust, not love. See Trunks' blushing confession that their relationship was "more of a physical thing." (''other troper question: where is this line stated? I don't remember it'') This Troper could easily see them as the anime equivalent of The Bickersons. The really WTFery comes with the Great Saiyaman story where they're HappilyMarried. Note that neither the manga nor anime try to explain how those two have stayed together without a murder occuring.
***** How? They're raising a child together. Neither wants to hurt little Trunks, so they don't separate, and they find common ground in raising him and such. Insert generic romance movie here.
****** Future Trunks is responsible for that. In 'his' timeline Bulma and Vegeta never did get together, but thanks to Vegeta meeting FT in this timeline he realized "you know my son's a pretty cool guy" and he wanted to stick around and raise him. Cue HappilyMarried for them and "my dad wasn't so bad" for Future Trunks and everybody's happy.
**** I think I solved the Bulma-Vegeta puzzle. Calculating her age at the time Trunks was born she would've been 31/32-ish. Nothing like The Attack of the Biological Clock Blues to make the nearest vaguely male alien look attractive. As for Vegeta, who'd turn down a free slice of hot poontang pie?
**** The answer to this question is pretty easy to explain. It's basically kinda like in ComicBook/{{Watchmen}} between Edward Blake(the Comedian) and Sally Jupiter (the first Silk Spectre), without the AttemptedRape. As Future Trunks explained, Yamcha and Bulma broke up. Bulma was feeling very lonely, but then she saw in Vegeta the same loneliness and his gradual decency (but not that much yet), masked by pride. They had a one-night stand, but no romance developed further from there until years later. That's all. Nothing confusing about it. That's how they can dislike each other, but still have a kid together. Plenty of examples like that in RealLife.
**** Further question, how the hell do [[NighInvulnerability Saiyans]] "produce" with humans without any major squick [[RedMist happening?]]
***** What's Squick about it? We can tell from naked pics of Goku from his childhood that Saiyans are built exactly like humans, except for the tail thing. In a world populated with flying cats, talking pigs and dinosaurs, a human (or so they think) with a tail isn't anything to be squicked out about. No one's squicked by Tenshinhan, for example, and he's got three eyes. And as for Bulma she most likely didn't care.
****** I think he's talking about the Saiyans "breaking" their partner. Remember, even though he WAS in SS at the time Goku shattered a wine glass by accident. With two fingers. Now then imagine what happens when they're all "riled up" and don't have the best self control
***** AFAIK only Goku has problems controlling his strength in the manga (remember him whacking Chichi by accident). All the other Saiyan and Saiyan hybrids hold themselves back just fine. It's either because of his head trauma or because he's just plain Goku.
***** Or, you know, RuleOfFunny.
* Vegeta is awful forgiving awful fast. I know becoming the most powerful being on the presumably in the universe can put you in a mighty good mood but honestly after at everything Gohan and Krillian put him through both intentionally and unintentionally there is no way they'd still be alive when Goku arrives two years later if I'm Vegeta. I kill Piccolo and Gohan out right because they are threats expecially if I let my gaurd down. I don't believe Goku's alive so I'm not worried about him showing up. Meanwhile I either train up to Super Saiyan which I now know is possible OR I install myself as the the new emperor of Earth. Sure it ends badly for me when Goku shows up and curb stomps me but no way is the kid who screwed me out of immortality getting a pass.
** At the end of the Namek saga, Piccolo was pretty much his equal. "Just kill Piccolo" just wasn't going to happen. Not to mention Vegeta's purpose in life was destroying Frieza and becoming the strongest Saiyan ever. With Goku swiping both goals out from under him, his focus shifted to defeating/surpassing Goku. Ruling Earth never crossed his mind. And even if it did: Again - Piccolo (who, at this point, still had his trump card of re-merging with Kami)
*** We don't have anyway of knowing if Kami would have consented. Considering he didn't use that solution with Vegeta and Nappa, a decision that directly led to his death, and how hesitant he was to step into the android situation it's likely that King Vegeta is not a sufficient threat for him to accept that.
*** Piccolo was nowhere near Vegeta's level. He didn't get much of a chance to show off after his final Namek-era power-up (assuming that being resurrected didn't give him yet another one), but Vegeta was able to flat out outrun(fly) an attack that Piccolo only saw as a glint of light that instantly caused people/islands behind him to die. On the other hand, without Frieza to try and overthrow, he had no real reason to try and avenge himself on the guys that had nearly gotten themselves killed repeatedly (or actually, in Kuririn's case) helping him overthrow Frieza, and put themselves in harm's way to save his life at least once (against Recoome). He only wanted the immortality so that he could beat Frieza, so as long as they leave him alone now that all that is done with, he's just dandy with training himself to Goku's level. Besides, he might even appreciate his first beating, considering that it was what allowed him to stand a chance against Frieza's men on Namek.
**** Vegeta was at most Piccolo's equal by that point. Piccolo stood up to Form 2 Frieza fairly well, while Vegeta didn't have a chance. His healing by Dende boosted him, but there's no way it pushed him -that- far.
** Having an on-again-off-again with an attractive superwealthy technowhiz with an endless supply of free (to you) training equipment and effectively zero serious rivals might be the better situation that Vegeta might have otherwise hoped for. As for the grudge against Gohan and Krillin, it may be safe to say he was simply biding his time until he was sure he could curb stomp any opposition or repercussion. The only time he knew for a fact that he was the strongest Z-Fighter around happened to coincide with other enemies attracting the lion's share of his battle lust.
* What's with Dr. Gero and Androids? Okay, I can understand making yourself an android and converting two young adults into cyborgs. I can even understand making a GentleGiant like #16. But why would you make your partner a bastardized Chinese doll? Why would you make your earlier androids some silver guy with a ponytail and the most racist caricature ever of a black man? And why would you make the android directly preceding him a perfect fit for a KKK rally, Southern accent and all?
** Can't speak about 19 (the doll), but 13 (the southern guy), 14 (the ponytailed guy) and 15 (the purple guy) only appear in a Movie, therefore aren't canon (at least their appearance isn't).
*** Two things: one, if you had a battle machine powerful enough to destroy a city in the blink of an eye at your beck and call, would you really care what does it look like? Two, the whole racial caricature and southern accent comes from the Funimation dub. In the original Japanese (and Latin American for that matter) dub, Androids 14 and 15 are nearly mute, save for a couple of “Son Goku” mutterings, while Android 13 speaks with no “accent”.
*** Also, this page is about general questions, meaning the movies still count. Granted the manga and anime rank higher in canon, but simply saying "not manga, not canon" isn't an answer.
* Why does almost every character treat Yamcha with extreme callousness during and after the Android arc? Yamcha lost the woman he was with from his early teens to mid thirties to the sociopath who had previously killed him and its even implied he was planning on marrying her. Then later Yamcha finds out he's weak and quits defending the World which must be the equivalent of losing your job. His friends rather then support Yamcha, respond by making jokes that the baby isn't his or about his weakness. So much for TrueCompanions, did the series turn into a SadistShow when I wasn't looking?
** Toriyama wasn't focusing on personal relationships at all at that time and all of the digs are DubText by Funimation.
* We have heard Chi Chi told Goku she loved him, but has Goku ever said it back after they got married?
** It's the exact reason why Dragonball Abridged makes Goku out to be an absolutely neglectful husband and father - he never seems to treat her as anything other than a housewife that brings him food. If I was going to be fair it could be because of the influence of his natural Saiyan traits as Vegeta treats Bulma like trash also.
* How come Chi-Chi never decided to ''leave'' Goku at one point since she gets annoyed with him always leaving for years. I mean, we all understand Goku is usually InnocentlyInsensitive, but some things he does causes viewers to question his marriage with Chi-Chi.
** Good point. What would stop her from taking Gohan and her dad with her as she left? Why would she put up with someone like Goku? That is a good question! I think, deep down, she doesn't mind the fact that she's married to a very powerful guy who can fly and shoot ki beams from his hands. Hell, she probably feels safe knowing that if, say, robbers try to come and hurt her and her baby, Goku could just fling them literally across a mountain. But yeah, you do raise and interesting question.
*** Go back and watch the original series again: Chi Chi is a StalkerWithACrush. Goku made ''one'' accidental proposal to her as a small boy (he thought marriage was a type of food) and she pursued him all the way to the World Martial Arts Tournament several years later planning to ''beat him senseless'' for supposedly standing her up. This is not a woman playing with a full deck.
** Have you met Chi-Chi. She’s the most loyal wife ever. She’ll never think of leaving Goku.
* How come nobody decided to call the police on Master Roshi instead of just punching him for groping the females...he's a creepy old hermit for crying out loud!
** It's likely he wouldn't submit and any jail not owned by one of the cast would hold Roshi precisely as long as he felt like getting free food and shelter. Its easy to forget since he can't blow up planets but Roshi is a genuine bad ass by any standards that don't involve Frieza.
* Where do Piccolo and Tenshinhan get off looking down their noses at Vegeta? Piccolo was going to become the next demon king and rule the Earth while making several explicit threats on Goku and his friends' lives, and Ten was training to be an assassin while making the same threats as Piccolo. Vegeta may have been a sadistic barbarian, but were they really that much better? Hell, what about Yamcha who was a desert bandit and probably robbed people leaving them to die? Kuririn is pretty much the only one without blood on his hands, considering he was, at worst, an underhanded jerk who quickly got chummy with Goku.
** Contrary to what Bulma would have us think, she's not the only big brain on DBZ's Earth
*** Red Ribbon's radar was created by Dr. Gero, and Bulma acknowledges he's a genius too.
** Well, the truth is, those other Dragon Radars tend to suck. They either take up an entire room, are not all that accurate, or have other limitations. Bulma seems to be able to make these out of spare parts in DB.
** [[Film/IronMan IN A CAVE! WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS!]]
** Well a psychic baby was able to build one out of broken pieces of the same device.
*** To be fair, that entire segment was pretty much a BigLippedAlligatorMoment in order to give a fond cameo to the cast of Dr. Slump, what with the Fourth Wall breaking and a guy who has used ToonPhysics to build things that made the time-space continuum his bitch being impressed by a portable global radar system.
** By "other people" do you mean average people or the main characters? If it's the former, she probably doesn't sell the technology because she doesn't want anyone other than the main characters finding the Dragon Balls. That might sound selfish, but since the Z warriors are often busy saving the universe and working alongside deities, it makes sense that they would want the Dragon Balls to be available to be used during critical situations. As for why she doesn't make a personal Dragon Radar for the other characters, maybe ie's because she fears that they - being the fight-crazy bunch that they are, always busy with training - might forget the radar somewhere, which would result in someone else finding it to possibly disastrous results.
* So here is a quick and easy way for them to hide/transport the dragonballs on both Earth and Namek... capsule them. Put them in one of Bulma's capsule vehicles and shrink them. Why all the fuss of trying to hide the things when you can store the entire lot in your pocket? Also, whilst we have no way to be sure, wouldn't hiding the things in a capsule dampen the Electromagnetic signal they give off? would have been at least WORTH an attempt when you are trying to hide them from the Red Ribbon Army or Frieza's Trade Organization for example.
** It's not really worth the effort. Frieza was the last villian searching for the Dragonballs and there is no reason to take precautions against guys like Pillaf at all.
* How does Goku ever figure out what it was that killed Grandpa Gohan? IIRC, Gohan told him never to look at the full moon (presumably after seeing Goku transform into his giant ape form once), but Goku did anyway somehow and killed him. Goku never has any recollection of his actions when he's in that state, so how did he know that it was a giant ape that killed Gohan? How did he end up connecting Vegeta's transformation to 'the same monster that killed my Grandpa'? At any point, does he ever realize what ''he'' did, and that he did it?
** In DBZ Season 1, Vegeta tells Goku about the Oozaru transformation. (Keep in mind that no one ever told Goku this; they just said he shouldn't look at the full moon whilst sporting a Saiyan monkey tail.) After hearing that, it's so clear to him what happened that he actually becomes upset with his friends for keeping him in the dark. (Imagine if everytime you looked at the full moon, you woke up naked and confused, everything around you destroyed, and your friends all terrified, telling you to never look at the full moon again. Goku can be pretty goofy in the head sometimes but he's not blind.)
*** He actually DOES get upset at them?
**** Well, he keeps it to himself, but yes.
***** Typical Goku fashion, he doesn't dwell on it too long and it's never referred to again.
** Also, when he's first told about the full moon being out in the first season of Dragon Ball, he tells his friends that Grandpa Gohan told him about a giant monkey that came out when the moon was full. Full-moon-giant-monkey-leaves-footprints-on-Grandpa plus Vegeta-makes-artificial-full-moon-and-turns-into-giant-monkey equals obvious, even to Goku.
*** [[YouKilledMyFather You killed my grandfather!]] (No, really, he said that to Vegeta. After being explained that all Saiyans with tails do that, he put 2 and 2 together and got 4).
**** Actually, that was just the [[{{Macekre}} Ocean Dub]].
***** It's in the Viz translated manga too. Vegeta's very amused.
* In what way is Kami a guardian? He never does anything to guard the Earth. The only time he has ever shown trying to defend the Earth is when he went up agaisnt Piccolo during the 23rd budokai. All other times all he does is just sit on his lookout doing nothing, I wouldn't call him a "guardian". And sure he created the Dragon Balls but they could have been used just as much for evil as good. If he was a smart guardian, he would have just got rid of the time limit, removed the effect of them flying off every time they're used and kept them on his lookout for whenever something went wrong on Earth.
** It's possible that it's some combination of the exact nature of the cosmos wasn't fully formed early on. We know Kami means God, perhaps Kami is technically his title and not his name but when it was just Dragonball they didn't think to give him two names. Kinda like Kai is is a title, perhaps he's supposed to be named Kami Kai though I find the former more likely and that Dende is supposed to be called Kami Dende or Dende Kami now but by the time he showed up he knew his pay grade. It was damn unlikely Vegeta was going to call that punk kid from Namek God Dende. While it eventually turned out to be false I don't think King Kai was lying about planet Vegeta having a guardian that summoned a meteor. I think that was the truth until he decided Frieza doing it was a better idea. Each planet gets a Kami and a set of Dragonballs. Each galaxy gets a Kai, each universe a Supreme Kai (assuming Dragonball has a functioning Multiverse.
** I don't think he guards in the physical sense so much as the spiritual sense; he ''is'' the god of the planet[[hottip:*: beneath King Kai who is god of the galactic quadrant, Grand Kai who is god of the galaxy, and Supreme Kai who is god of the universe, and used to be god of the northern quadrant of the universe until Buu absorbed the other four quadrant gods and the universal god. Divinity in DBZ is very much like a pyramid scheme.]], remember, and has been shown dealing with the passage to the afterlife and negotiating of where in the afterlife people go. Plus, the threats kinda exceeded his ability to handle after Piccolo, and he DID provide consistent aid, training, and sanctuary for his Champions after that.
*** Plus he did try to stop Piccolo when he appeared at the tournament.
** Technically, each Kaioh rules a quadrant of the universe, and each Kaiohshin rules the same quadrant AND the afterlife. It's AllThereInTheManual. But yeah, Dragon Ball deities are funny like that.
** Before he was surpassed by Goku, with the exception of King Piccolo and perhaps Popo (given his ability to later spar two Super Saiyans), Kami was the strongest being on Earth for hundreds of years and thus perfectly capable of defending it. Its also shown that Kami has been drastically weakened by age so logically he should have been able to fight pre-Kaioken Goku is his prime. As for the Kais, they not only have a similar problem of being surpassed by new threats, but seem to have been the victim of great stagnation in their society. Every featured Kai has been shown to either be overconfident or lazy enough to believe they don't need to train; both King, Grand and Supreme Kai seem to spend their entire lives relaxing or clowning about - when was last time we have seen them practice? It's one of the reasons they're all so startled when they meet a Super Saiyan for the first time.
*** There is another alternative that no one seems to have considered... that Kami is a coward. When King Piccolo was released and started murdering martial artists, Kami had four very clear courses of action. 1) Seek out Piccolo and immediately kill his spawn (childs play for a warrior as powerful as him) so they can't get in his way, then use the Evil Containment wave to capture him. We know King Piccolo has no counter for this technique and we know he is so afraid of it that it strickens him with paralysis. 2) If option 1 fails, just confront Piccolo and fight him to the death. No matter who wins both will die. Every single one of the people he is pledged to protect is now saved. 3) Circumvent options 1 and 2 and just commit suicide in the comfort - resulting in the exact same result as 2. 4) Sit in your near-impregnable aerial fortress as a small child gets nearly beaten to death twice, watch as many innocent men and women are murdered and sit by and do nothing as King Piccolo conquers the planet and declares all law null and void. Options 1 - 3 are what a Hero pledged to guard the Earth would do. Option 4 is what Yajirobe or Oolong would do. And if you think I'm being too hard on Kami remember... this is the '''second''' time he has chosen option 4. In every flashback we have seen Kind Piccolo's original conquest of Earth, in which we saw global terror and Mutaito and the Hermits fight a losing battle to save the Earth, have we heard of a single thing Kami ever did? he is one of the ''two strongest beings on Earth''. Options 2 - 3 are fully open to him at this point and arguably even option 1. Either Mutaito developed the Containment Wave himself or he learnt it from another Master; in both cases Kami would have to have learnt it during their lifetimes in order for him to be able to throw it against Piccolo Jr - assuming it wasn't Kami that taught Mutaito which would officially make Kami a dick as well as a coward.
**** By the time Piccolo Sr. had been unsealed, Kami had grown cynical in his opinion of humanity and life on Earth, which is why he originally planned to leave the Dragon Balls destroyed an unusable. It was probably not only this cynicism, but also all his other duties as Guardian of the Earth (whatever those might entail) that caused him to not take action. He is by no means a coward, given he willingly fused with Piccolo and allowed Piccolo to remain the conscious persona, thus ceasing his own existence.
**** Option 1 wasn't available, since Kami was only aware of the Mafuba technique after Mutaito (Roshi's master) created and used it to seal Piccolo Sr. This was explicitly stated in the story. Killing himself would remove any possibility of making up for the actions of Piccolo Sr. - in case you've forgotten, he created the Dragon Balls to do just that. Besides, he'd need to have a successor of some sort in place if he ever did something as drastic as killing himself, and there wasn't anyone who fit the bill until Goku came along (given that being pure-hearted and fairly powerful are requirements).
** Kami obviously doesn't have the physical ability to actually "guard" the Earth, but he helps in what ways he can - such as when he helped Goku to go see King Kai, and escorted him back to Earth, and allowing the Z Fighters to train on his lookout.
* How come the citizens of the DBZ world never wonder how they keep dying and coming back to life? Apart from the Buu Saga, their memories of being killed were never explicitly wiped out, so why don't they ever wonder who brought them back to life and how?
** The Buu saga is the only one where anyone besides the Z fighters themselves are brought back to life, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
*** The Cell saga? They wished everyone in that saga to be brought back to life.
*** They probably thought it was a [[NoOntologicalInertia side effect]] of Hercule destroying Cell in that case.
* Supreme Kai always refers to the Z fighters as "Mere Mortals"... but isn't he himself a Mortal?
** Yeah he is mortal in the sense that he can be killed, but not in the sense that he doesn't age and would never die of natural causes...he probably has lived for so long that for all intents and purposes he considered himself immortal.
** Immortality in Dragon Ball has always been pretty consistant. It allows the user eternal life but not invincibility. For example Master Roshi was stated to have drunk from the Fountain of Youth which froze his age as an old man - but he is still very much vulnerable to being killed by outside sources. Garlic Junior wished for immortality and was indeed capable of regeneration on a semi-Buu like scale, but he was far from indestructible. The only reason they had to trap him in the Dead Zone is that they were completely hindered by their low power levels - a Super Saiyan would have been able to vapourize Garlic. The Kai's and Buu also work on the exact same principles - immunity to age but not immunity to death.
*** Didn't Garlic recover from a hole inside himself? Granted, it was the anime filler, but I assume that's on equal terms of "canon" as the Dead Zone movie.
**** Yes he did; but that proves that he ''can'' be killed it's just that like Cell and Buu you need to destroy every single bit of him before he regenerates. Like the Troper above points out that whilst Garlic seemed strong he was initially defeated by the pre-Raditz Z Fighters - Super Saiyan Goku would have done a lot more than blow a small hole in Garlic's chest.
** Keep in mind Kami's name means god, and look at how he compares to the rest of the universe. He's below Yama, who is below King/North Kai, who is below Grand Kai, who is below Supreme Kai. It's less about mortality and immortality and more about the Z fighters not being gods.
* If Shenron can't do anything that's beyond Kami's abilities, why didn't Kami just resurrect everybody instead of having to search for the Dragon Balls every time? Hell, why didn't he render Goku (or failing that, HIMSELF) immortal?
** So A) nobody ever wishes themselves immortal in DBZ, so we don't even know if the dragon can actually grant that wish. Piccolo grants himself youth, so maybe eternal youth is within the dragon's capabilities, but not preventing you from death in battle. But, then again, Roshi seems to live forever (he might have drunk some magic water at some point), too, so it is not as useful as you'd think. B) Just because something is within Kami's power, doesn't mean he has the skills to do it. Remember, it is magic!
*** At one point it's stated that Roshi has drunk from the Fountain of Youth AND at one time he had access to the legendary Phoenix which was apparently capable of granting immortality(This was his original reward for Goku before he decided on giving him the Flying Nimbus)
** Garlic Jr actually does wish for immortality. Which just means the heroes shove him into The Dead Zone for all eternity. Besides, most in the [=DBZverse=]even think about immortality less in terms of "Will never die" and more "Unkillable". Once you're strong enough to kick God's ass, living forever might seem to hold less allure.
*** [[CanonDiscontinuity Garlic Jr]]. Was this just in the movie or in the anime filler? Either way, not strictly canon. Regardless, I think the original query is just outside the dragon's powers -- and Kami cannot grant all sorts of wishes, no more than you can play video games on your laptop's battery. Kami is the source of the Dragon's power, that doesn't mean he has all the dragon's skills.
*** Also, Kami probably wouldn't have done it, because, outside the Dragon Balls, he doesn't like to specifically interfere with Earth. Remember, the Namek Dragon barely ever used his resurrection abilities because the Nameks saw death as natural, and it wasn't until someone started a genocidal campaign against them that they considered using it. As for rendering Goku immortal, at the end of Dragon Ball Goku specifically says he doesn't want Kami to do anything like that to him, and, as for himself... well, perhaps that's breaking the rules.
**** Yeah, I'd say for the Guardian of Earth, making someone immortal would be a very dangerous and unguardianly thing to do. However, like you mentioned, Goku had the opportunity to become the guardian at one point, which he turned down.
** Rou-Dai-Kaioushin, the most ancient and wise of all of the DB-verse's Gods considers the Dragon Balls the equivalent of cosmic cheat codes, so presumably they allow a God's strength to be used to fuel abilities that the Gods themselves do not inherently possess.
** I always figured it was something like the Dragon Balls were a rechargeable reflection of Kami's maximum potential. Like a young Kami in his prime using the full extent of his power would be able to do something like resurrect everyone on Earth or grant immortality to a person, but at the cost of his own life. Whereas the Dragon Balls are capable of doing the same with the only consequence being a 1 year recharging period.
* Yamcha has eaten senzu beans at least once in the series. How come he still has scars on his face? After all, these very senzu beans are capable of healing broken necks (Gohan) and arms (Vegeta).
** Because the scar tissue is old and no longer technically a "wound". If he ate the bean when he got the injury in the first place, it'd be a different story. Same basic reason the beans don't cause saiyans to regenerate lost tails.
*** Then why does Future Trunks tell Future Gohan (in their side story) that if only they had senzu they could heal his missing arm?
**** Because Future Trunks is somewhat of an idiot?
**** Then Future Gohan must be an idiot too, because he doesn't disagree.
**** The first answer is the correct one - Future Gohan's injury was mere hours old at this point. Yamcha had these scars from when he was a very young man. As a side point it actually has a basis in real world medicine - fresh wounds are far easier to repair then a semi-healed one.
**** It's not that it would regrow a missing arm; it's that they wouldn't have had to amputate it if they had had any senzu beans left.
**** Speaking of which, why the hell didn't Bulma just build him a replacement arm?
***** You really have to wonder how effective and/or useful that would have been considering the cyborgs that took his arm (not to mention Gohan himself) could've probably rendered it akin to torn tissue paper with little effort. He'd have it for five minutes, max, before it gets scrapped. Sure, it works for a guy like Tao, but Alter-Future Gohan and the Androids...whole other league.
****** Very good points about how useless a ''Tao'' style bionic arm would be in combat but two things occur to me. 1) Given Bulma's extensive technical abiity (shes smart enough to build a time machine) why hasn't she yet managed to copy a ''Gero'' style arm? Gohan would only need a basic copy in order to help him block attacks. 2) Even in an post-apocalyptic hellhole, an arm has other functions besides fighting. General things like eating, writing, cleaning... all of which he must logically be doing in between his battles.
** Because they thought it was [[HandicappedBadass cooler if Gohan had one arm even though, logically, Bulma could've given him an arm that wouldn't have slowed him down.]]
** In a similar vein to the Yamcha example above, during the run of GT Gohan dons a pair of glasses. This completely ''baffles'' me in a universe in which Dende, Majin Buu and the beans exist that Gohan should require any form of corrective eyewear. Unless he has taken a leaf out of the Tenth Doctor's book and has decided to wear a pair of ''brainy specs,'' the only reasonable conclusion I can see is that beyond healing fresh injuries restoring Ki, the Senzu are actually quite overrated - unless it's yet another GT plot hole of course.
*** Perhaps he felt that it helped him blend in? Also, the senzu seems to be able to heal injuries and such, but deteriorated eyesight is a natural, slow thing. Perhaps if he kept eating Senzus every day, he'd continue to have perfect eyesight.
*** He first dons the glasses at the end of DBZ and I always assumed he put them on just to look brainy, not because he actually needs it.
*** As a teenager, Gohan had eagle eyes- he was able to see that Hercule was holding a dog from thousands of feet in the air. Either the glasses are completely absurd, or as he aged, his eyesight drifted closer to that of a normal human: still extremely sharp by human standards, but deteriorating considerably from his ability to spot a puppy from a mile away.
* Chao Tzu and Goku are both children in Dragon Ball. In DBZ Chao Tzu is still a child when Goku has gone on to have a son.
** Dude's either a midget or some magical being that ages slowly. Note that his close friend Tien didn't seem to age much, either, and neither of them exactly match the standard human phenotype- Chao Tzu looks like a clown, and Tien's a Triclops.
** Chiaotzu is a Chinese mythical being, I forget what it's called but it's like a zombie crossed with a vampire. There's also a Dragon Ball feature length adventure that implies he's a weird king with Tien as his bodyguard, but [[CanonDiscontinuity it's not quite canon.]] "Not the standard human phenotype" doesn't count for much in the Dragon Ball world, where aliens, animals, and mythical beasts rarely have any problems living, conversing, and breeding with humans.
*** Doesn't imply; him being an Emperor plays a noticable part of the movie.
*** The mythical being you're thinking of is a Jiang Shi, aka Hopping Vampire.
* Why didn't occur to Goku to teach the Instant Transmission technique to any of his allies?
** It annoys me more that Goku or King Kai never bothered teaching anyone else the kaioken technique. Maybe the humans would have been still too weak, but Piccolo would have probably been almost as strong as the strongest characters during the Cell Saga at least. Was Perfect Cell really that much more than 20 times as strong as Piccolo? Also, Kaioken just looks plain cooler, yes, cooler than super saiyan even.
*** During the Frieza fight, King Kai points out that Goku "has been using the Kaioken the entire time." It just wasn't ''shown'' any more. It's entirely possible that the other Z fighters actually were taught the technique, and WERE using it. They just never state it explicitly. This effect actually happens with other moves, too. The human ability to "sense chi" is something that Goku spent months/years learning from Mr. Popo. However, once he ''did'' learn it, it became a common ability for anybody that knew Goku. Even Vegeta was able to learn it with zero actual study.
*** Apparently, they might all know it after all. At least in ''Kai'', when Piccolo is fighting Android 20, he says that ''all'' of them have learned to amplify their base energy in short bursts to give their strikes some extra kick.
*** Also brings to question why Cell didn't use Kaio Ken in any of his fights, despite claiming to possess it. His already enormous power would be multiplied twentyfold. At his Super Perfect form, Cell would have been able to curbstomp even Super Saiyan 2 Gohan with it. Unless he did use Kaio Ken but it wasn't visible anymore at a certain point, as the above poster mentioned.
**** [[EpilepticTrees Maybe Cell's Self-Destruct "was" his Kaio Ken technique.]] Goku did mention that there was always a risk your body would explode from overusing it. Maybe Cell did so on purpose.
**** Cell didn't know he could regenerate until he saw Piccolo grow his arm back. Maybe he just didn't know he could use Kaio Ken.
***** Which in a series where things don't always make sense, that explanation makes less sense than usual. Cell came programed knowing all the moves in the game, including a few that he had no way of actually knowing. I can buy that all of the moves of the earth fighters can simply be programed into the computer but how did he know Frieza's destructo disc, and even that Goku planned a last second dodge if the moves aren't literally part of his DNA? If I had to guess though I'd assume that just like Goku on planet Namek that he was using Kaio Ken constantly, as was everybody they just stopped animating it. Though it would be nice if they flat out explained it at some point, if for no other reason than it makes me wonder how strong some of the other characters are. Vegeta for example could potentially be a lot stronger than is let on if he DOESN'T know the Kaio Ken and still manages to almost keep up with Goku who's using it constantly.
****** There is simply no evidence that anyone else but Goku ever used the Kaioken. True the animators did get lazy and stopped animating Goku's red aura during the fight on Namek however that is a great leap to assume that must apply to everyone else just to try and explain why Goku or King Kai never taught it to anyone. May I remind everyone here present that these fighters have a long history of not teaching their techniques to each other; near enough all examples of them using one of their comrades techniques is nothing but mimicry with the exception of anyone who had a personal teacher. There is no argument that I can see as to why Goku never divulged the secrets of the Kaioken or the Instant Transmission that doesn't apply equally to Tien for example not divulging his Crane School techniques. My guess is that, although they are friends, that there is still a great amount of rivalry between them which would inevitably breed a reluctance to share. Vegeta especially would have rather kissed a toilet seat than have Goku try to teach him anything especially pre-Buu saga.
* It's occurred to a lot of people to wonder how [=ChiChi=] survived having sex with Goku - but how the heck did ''Bulma'' survive having sex with ''Vegeta?'' Unlike [=ChiChi=] she's an ordinary human, and even though Vegeta isn't as strong as Goku he also isn't as good at controlling his strength. ManOfSteelWomanOfKleenex promptly comes to mind.
** Well, he may not have good emotional control, but he still must have total control over his own body to become such a fighter. He just chooses to act the way he does.
* Why the heck are Trunks and Goten so stupidly powerful? Goten especially. He achieves Super Saiyan at, what? Age 8? Younger? At that age, Goku, a full-blooded Saiyan, mind you, was running from bees and finding himself an even match with Yamcha.
** It was stated somewhere that Saiyan/Human hybrids are abnormally powerful, for example, Gohan. It could also be the fact that when they Goku and Vegeta did their wives, they were both already Super Saiyans, giving them the "trait" to access Super Saiyan as easily as they could.
*** You just said "for example Gohan" but Goku wasn't Super Saiyan when he fathered Gohan, remember?
**** I believe that troper was referring to how insanely powerful Gohan was at such a young age, compared to his father or Piccolo. Also consider that Chi-chi wasn't a bad fighter in her own right, either.
* Shouldn't Vegeta be the king of all Saiyans instead of prince of all Saiyans considering the state of the fomer king? or is the Saiyan throne not hereditary?
** What Saiyans? Goku and Gohan? Come on...'
*** Even worse than that. Assuming all the Sayians on the planet were pure-bloodied Sayians, that means the only other Sayain Vegeta could "rule" over is...Goku. The others (Gohan, Goten, and Trunks) are half-Sayians.
** Vegeta is still prince for the same reason most "princess" without parents in fiction are still "princesses": because they like the title better.
** Vegeta was born a prince, but he would have to be crowned in an official ceremony to be the King. Not exactly easy when your monarchy and the planet it is meant to rule is space dust.
** Vegeta could declare himself King of the Saiyans at any time he wanted. Ceremony doesn't mean much when A) you would be the king of 4-8 people total, and B) you could kill any of those four without too much effort(Broly excluded from this point, and assuming it takes place before the saiyan saga to cover Goku). The thing is, even Vegeta, as vain as he was, could see what a pointless, petty, childish, immature act that would be. It would be akin to a kid sitting down in the sandbox at the park and declaring himself king of it, demanding tribute from the other kids who just shake their heads and go play on the swing set. He would get no end of mocking for it from the higher ups in Frieza's army, something he was well aware of. He was a prince by birth, had grown up as a prince when that still meant something, so he was comfortable using that title.
* Why do the humans refuse to try and keep up with the Saiyans? After just a few weeks training with King Kai they are stronger than Goku was after a year of the same training. Can you imagine what would have happened if they'd thought like Vegeta and said screw thousands of years of tradition and trained with technology?
** Yamcha did try the gravity chamber and it almost killed him. Also, I wouldn't say they became stronger than Goku, just stronger than the Ginyu Force, and they still had some difficulty with that. Goku took the Ginyu Force down so easily he was surprised.
*** That's because Yamcha tried the gravity chamber at the same setting Vegeta was using (one that nearly crippled ''him'' when he first tried it), rather than starting from scratch.
*** Exactly he started at 100 or 300 times gravity instead of ten or twenty. If he'd gone through the steps it would have worked. And they were clearly stronger than Goku. Goku after training with King Kai could barely stand up to Vegeta. Several beatings and healings later Vegeta could not beat Recoom. The three of them beat four of the Ginyu Force without much difficulty. So clearly each of them was stronger then Vegeta had been on earth. And that was after a couple of weeks of training with King Kai not over a year. Humans couldn't keep up because they didn't try. Gravity training works.
**** Problem is; it always comes down to the same thing - humans can't transform. Then human Z Fighters were able to keep up with Goku and Vegeta during the Saiyan and Namek saga's but once they learnt Super Saiyan (for reference it multiplies their base power by 50) Yamcha, Krillin and Tien were never going to be able to fight equally. Theoretically the only two ways they could have potentially corrected this imbalance would be to A) train their bodies to sustain a Kaioken x50; with the problem that the Kaioken techique doesn't last as long as Super Saiyan or B) copy Master Roshi's ability to double in size; which whilst no doubt effective (it endowed Roshi the abilty to destroy the moon) it would have the same disadvantages of a Super Saiyan Grade 3 - namely it would reduce your speed dramatically.
***** The humans weren't even close in the Saiyan and Namek arcs to Goku and Vegeta, and there's no way they could even keep up with their base forms, let alone transformations. Goku on Namek had a power level of 3,000,000 and it is implied he went on to raise his base power level above Freeza's 120,000,000 by the Boo saga. The humans had power levels below 2,000 in the Saiyan saga, they had '''absolutely no chance''' at keeping up, no matter what they could have tried.
** Humans vs Ginyu force was filler.
*** True, but there is at least something to be said about humans that is not filler. Consider this: after Goku beats Piccolo Daimao, he goes to train under Kami. After a whole three years of intense training, and then another five years where he must have at least not gone down in power, he has enough strength to... get easily splatted into a wall by Radish. Don't forget that Radish was said by Nappa to be about as strong as a Saibaman (poor guy). Now to the humans: when Bulma measures their power levels, we know they are far weaker than Goku or Piccolo. Even then, a single year (or even less) of training under Kami is enough to make them stronger than the Saibamen. I know it had to be done for the sake of the story, but it makes Goku's advancements seem a bit slow in perspective, and it makes the humans look pretty capable overall. Thus, we can only wonder just how strong they did get under King Kai. Tenshinhan is indeed able to somewhat keep Imperfect Cell at bay, after all.
**** It appears that the humans can in fact train with better results than even the Saiyans on a normal to normal basis, but what kills their chances is that they just don't have anything equivalent to Super Saiyan modes to ascend to or the remarkable healing ability.
**** The first case isn't just Kami's training, and not the same training Goku got. They got more advanced training, and did their own training afterwards. Even then, they developed at a pace they never had before, it was entirely plot driven. As was Tenshinhan holding down Semi-Perfect Cell, it was a clear example of StrongAsTheyNeedToBe seeing as one kick from Android 17 earlier was enough to take him out.
**** I think this is a major discrepancy. Also consider the idea that after fusing with Namek's strongest fighter, Piccolo only had enough strength to keep Frieza's 2nd form at bay, yet after fusing with Kami, who's something like 40 times weaker than Nail (assuming power levels aren't completely bullshit), he becomes stronger than a Super Saiyan. Sometimes the relative strengths of characters are just messed up.
**** Maybe that was because of the Fusion multiplier.
**** I think this deserves some elaboration. Humans can’t match Saiyans in power simply due to genetics. Starting with the latter’s so called “Zenkai Power”. Basically, every time a Saiyan recovers from a serious beating they get a large power up. Both, Goku and Vegeta, exploit this trait during the Namek Arc. Second, all the transformations in Super Saiyan, Full Power, [=SSJ2=], [=SSJ3=] and whatnot. And third, the fact that human/saiyan hybrids are especially powerful. In the long run, Humans will always lose no matter the training.The whole thing with Ten Shin Han and Cell is not StrongAsTheyNeedToBe but rather WeakButSkilled. You see, techniques can dramatically increase the user’s “Battle Power”. This was very present in the early chapters and is the main reason Goku was able to take on Vegeta; the Kaioh Ken gives him a considerable powerboost at the cost of his body wearing faster and the Genki-Dama simply uses energy from another source. Finally, back then when The Elder Namekian read Krillin’s mind he identified Piccolo as the son of Kattatsu, a member of the dragon clan, and a prodigious with amazing potential…that got lowered severely when he split in two. This means Piccolo’s fusion with Kami goes beyond fusing with some guy to get more power; it’s basically becoming a complete being once again.
***** None of which changes the simple fact that other than on failed experiment by Yamcha the humans in particular but charachters in general have seen the results of training under extreme gravity or with a magical god putting ten ton donuts on your arms and yet they still decide to train under waterfalls. Given just how quickly the main cast got over the Saiyan and Frieza arcs (Raditz was supposedly by far the weakest named charachter in Frieza's army. By the time they reach Namek Krillan and Gohan are able to give Guldo, presumably in the top ten most powerful beings in the universe a good run for his money. Maybe the lack of transformations really is that crippling that they truly couldn't keep up but the point is they clearly aren't trying.
***** Gurdo was the weakest member of the team, you know; to the point Krillin wondered what he was doing there. The key word here is time, you see. Even if the humans trained with the same methods they would not develop their strength as fast as the Saiyans. Look at Piccolo, for example, who managed to surpass the power of the Super Saiyan for a short time by fusing with Kami only to quickly fall behind when new transformation stages were revealed. Last but not least, remember that Saiyans have greater longevity than humans.
** All the rationalizations aside, the humans were facing the SortingAlgorithmOfEvil in full force. The next BigBad always has to be a lethal challenge to the top fighters so secondary or tertiary fighters are useless in the final fight. This could have been remedied by the author if there was something worth doing beyond fighting the latest demi-god to get an anti-Saiyan rager. Even when the baddies have mooks and goons that lower-level humans can handle, it still makes more sense for Goku, Vegeta, or one of their kids to just mow them down rather than engage a prolonged fight that puts a human fighter in danger.
* Has anyone asked how Krillin and Android 18 had a child yet? I mean... she's an android... is Marron supposed to be fully human despite being birthed by a robot?
** This is a translation error. Androids 17 and 18 are not androids, they are cyborgs. As in regular people with augmentations, like Cyber Frieza. Marron would be 100% human as the daughter of two humans. This translation error is because the Japanese word "jinzouningen" is closer to artificial human than to android. It's the same reason Cell is technically Android 21 even though he's not a robot.
* How exactly do ''ki'' attacks injure/kill? Granted, sometimes we see people get blown to bits or annihilated utterly, but when Piccolo intercepted that shot from Nappa to protect Gohan, his body looked mostly intact, yet he died. Same for when Gohan got blasted point-blank by Majin Buu; he was obviously bloodied, and quite close to death, but there was nothing to show/tell exactly what kind of damage was done to his body. There are other examples, but it's been 2+ years since I've actually watched DBZ, so I can't remember them off-hand.
** Perhaps, rather than being a really hot ball of PureEnergy, a ki attack is more like a HardLight cannonball? Or a combination of those. The damage would be internal rather than really noticeable injuries for the stronger guys.
** Ether that or he absorbed the energy as heat across his body and it cooked him.
** That's what I figured myself. We see smoke coming from Piccolo after the attack, so while he physically looks...well...somewhat beaten up, his insides are just roasted meat, hence he dies.
* If Gohan was born with a tail, why weren't any of the other part-Saiyans?
** Real world answer? the producers were trying to distance themselves from the original series by limiting any more ''Monkey Boys.'' Notice how there are also no anthropomorphic animals either. I'm guessing its move away from adventure themed anime/manga to balls to the wall action anime/manga as well as the move away from the majority of the slapstick humour made them embarrassed of it; which if you agree with me that the original series was actually better than Z or GT it comes off as bit of an insult.
** They may have been born with tails, but their respective families (Gohan for Goten, Vegeta for Trunks) knew how to permanently remove the tails so they wouldn't have to deal with the 'possible giant ape on full moon' thing.
** WordOfGod / ShrugOfGod is that in saiyan/human crossbreeds, tails are recessive and Gohan's actually the freak of the bunch.
* Did Vegeta and Bulma actually got married? They are treated as husband and wife late in the series, and in GT at least with its dubious canonicity Bulma calls herself the Wife of the Prince of the Saiyajin; but I know that doesn't mean they actually did the whole process.
** I think we're supposed to assume they did the whole process during the three-year time skip before the Androids, or the seven-year time skip before Buu. You could ask the same of Krillin and 18. All we know is that they're apparently raising their daughter together, and apparently live together even though we don't see them do the actual wedding.
*** I believe in real life there's a concept called common-law marriage, where if two romantic partners live together for a long enough time they can be considered legally married in some jurisdictions. Maybe while parenting Trunks for seven years Bulma and Vegeta became married this way along the road?
** If Vegeta and Bulma actually got married instead of just going common-law, then it would have been in the post-Cell pre-Buu time skip. It's generally implied that their relationship started as a purely physical thing and they only ever really bonded over their kid, and even that was only really a thing because Vegeta spent so much time with future-Trunks during the Cell Saga.
* Where do Saiyanjin get psychic powers? I've seen a couple of fics in English mention them, but I'm pretty sure that in the Latin Dub (that's very close to the original) they don't have them. Did the English Dub gave the Saiyajin Psychic Powers or where they cut in Latin America?
** I seem to recall Goku catching up to speed telepathically when he first arrives on Namek.
** Before that, when in the hospital, after being beaten by Vegeta, he tries to train by levitating a glass of water.
* Yamcha's defeatism bugs me. In the original Dragon Ball and early Z series he loved fighting to the extent he would devote months to constant training and in Anime filler started a fight with an entire baseball team for fun. Come the end of Z, despite his previous joy of fighting reaching near Saiyan levels, he had completely given up. Now the accepted fan theory is that he became genre savvy enough to realize he could never surpass the Super Saiyan's. 1) This never stopped Krillin from enjoying himself at the 25th World Martial Arts tournament, despite knowing he didn't stand a chance against Goku and Vegeta ''and'' despite Krillin never really having the same eagerness to fight Yamcha did. Neither did this stop Tien from training day and night to the point he could avoid Buu's Human Extinction Attack. 2) In real life how many martial artists are up to the standard of Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris? 5% maybe? doesn't stop the other 95% entering tournaments for competition, fun and general fitness does it? So here we have a situation where Yamcha, the strongest human in the world barring Tien and Krillin, who
would almost certainly have won every single one of those Tournaments where Hercule was the only Z-Fighter competing - pathetically fizzling out for no adequate reason whatsoever.
** I couldn't say why he's lazy when alive, but when Buu kills him and he goes to the afterlife, he starts training intently again, to the point of amazing even Krillin.
** It bug me as well because even if Yamcha no longer wanted to fight super powered villains after his close brush with death during the Android sagas, he could still train and at least win the Budokai Tenkaichi tournaments barring no unusually powerful opponent appearing where he has no chance at winning (he's had bad luck at the early tournaments with Roshi posing as Jackie Chun, Tien, and Kami posing as "Hero" ). Yamcha could have been the "Champion of Earth" and not Mr Satan if he stayed competing. Yamcha is easily stronger than Mr Satan who has no grasp of Ki control and attacks. So his defeatist attitude really does suck.
*** And pray tell what would he achieve by becoming "champion of the earth"? Wealth? Fame? A city with his name? And when the next superpowered being comes to threaten the earth and the people call him for help he'll look down and whisper "no"? A lot of people can enjoy martial arts without having to enter a tournament or even sparring, you know. Yamcha is not looking to become the strongest like Goku and Vegeta nor does his life revolve around martial arts like Tenshinhan and Chaoz. He’s just a normal guy with other aspirations like Krillin. He’s already very powerful and doesn’t have to prove anything to anybody; moreover he’s more than willing to jump to action despite his limitations if it is for a good cause. Hardly the definition of “defeatist”.
**** For one, wealth. Yamcha once cancelled a date with Bulma for being broke. Or just competing for the fun of it since he did love the martial arts. only reason I would see him not bothering if he believed he had too much of an unfair advantage against the "normal" competitors. He also could inspire the people of Earth just as Mr Satan did only he knows the real heroes very well. While things worked out for everyone else, Yamcha has nothing to show for all his training as TheEveryman.
***** Admitedly its possible that that was before he became a successful career in sports but it still makes no sense for Yamcha to give up fighting considering how much he loved it. Its said in Dragon Ball he's always wanted to win the World Martial Arts Tournament and we're shown many times that Yamcha greatly enjoys just competing and training, so it makes little sense for him to give up fighting or the Martial Arts tournaments.
** That always used to bother me too until I has a stroke of FridgeBrilliance and worked out the exact moment that he would have come to that decision - when he was defeated by Android 19. He had the same three year warning as everyone else, was trained by the world's greatest martial arts masters Roshi and Kami, was there at every major battle the Z Fighters have ever had, was pumped, determined... and was effortlessly defeated without even a punch thrown. Now he '''Might''' have been able to get over that setback '''If''' mere hours later he wasn't forced to sit back and watch as his best friend and rival Tien was able to hold off Semi-Perfect Cell with the Tri-Beam; a fighter infinitesimally stronger than the minor Androids he had lost so easily to beforehand. That, combined with all his other crippling defeats, was finally enough to tip him over the edge and hang up his trademarked orange suit. With that knowledge in hand, Yamcha's words to Goku just prior to the Cell Games "I will come but I won't fight" take on a ''whole'' new meaning.
*** Tenshinhan wasn't even Yamcha's ''friend'', let alone best friend. Tenshinhan's only friend is Chiaotzu. Also, the two were '''never''' rivals, they only had one battle against each other and that was their first meeting. Also, I hope you mean Semi-Perfect Cell is the "fighter infinitesimally stronger than the minor Androids", because Tenshinhan was obviously much weaker than the Androids, like Yamcha.
**** While Tenshinan and Yamcha aren't best friends, they are shown to be friends in the series and yeah they were rivals. Anyway Tenshinan was the strongest of the Earthlings for most of the series and Neo Tri-beam is one of(or the) strongest attack in the series, and seeing the strongest of them only stall Semi-Perfect with his strongest attack(using up his lifeforce in the process) must've been disheartening to the other Human fighters. This would explain why he would give up helping fight on the Front lines but does not in anyway explain why Yamcha gave up Martial Arts.
**** And who said he gave up martial arts? For all we see of Yamcha during his free time he could be still training at his own pace, taking part in some street fighting or even giving out self-defense classes. As for the Tenkaichi Budokai, remember the entire island where the last tournament in Dragon Ball took place was completely devastated by Piccolo's last attack; God knows how many years passed before the damage could be repaired. Then came the saiyajins, the whole being dead thing, then the androids, then Cell, etc. By the time they could participate again Yamcha figured it wasn't worth it. Sure, Krillin decided to take part but he was lucky to face against some poor sap and as soon as he went to the front lines he was deemed trash by Dabura and turned to stone. Last but not least, after the defeat of Buu, Mr. Satan had basically rigged the whole tournament by having Fat Buu participate, beat up everybody and "lose" against him.
**** Had Yamcha had remained competing and been "Champion Of Earth" instead of Mr. Satan, there would be know rigging of the tournament like that. the tournament itself had become meaningless and just a show stage for Mr. Satan. It only makes me wish more somebody stronger than Mr Satan competed against him.
* It has always been my opinion that Yamcha only cared about fighting while he was still extremely shy and withdrawn, after dating Bulma his interest in training waned and then after breaking up he threw himself right back into it, but it was never quite the same for him, the old passion was gone and so he only trained when the situation called for it. I think Yamcha is more concerned with the quest for booty than training nowadays.
* Okay I know DBZ isn't exactly known for its romance (wow that's an understatement) but seriously, all the couples (I'm only counting the first generation, Gohan and Videl don't count, mostly because while they had development I found them unbelievably boring) on this show are either completely incompatible or just have no real emotion connection with each other. (excluding Bulma and Vegeta, who are similar enough in personality and seem to genuinely enjoy the SlapSlapKiss thing they have going on enough to actually seem compatible). I mean Goku married [=ChiChi=] because she forced him into it, and seems to make every effort to not interact with her and leaves her for long periods of time without seeming to miss her or regret leaving her at all. Krillen and Android 18 are just....weird, there was no real development building up to their relationship (I know, I know, maybe I'm asking too much but even B/V had a whole mini plot going in both anime and manga, it wasn't long or detailed but it was there at least) it was just like one day he said 'i love you' and she was like 'sure why not.'
** For what it's worth, Toriyama has stated that he doesn't know how to write romance, which is part of the reasons for the long timeskips, with the kids' existence starting as shorthand for "yes, their parents are still together."
** I attribute Goku and Chi-Chi's relationship to this: They DO genuinely care about each other, really. It's just that sometimes their marriage lends itself to the RuleOfFunny. It's more fun to see her flip out than take so much of it in stride (filler or not, I thought SHE was going to go Super Saiyan when she got lip from Krillin's first girlfriend). And I don't believe she forced him, he went along willingly (that's what I got from the dub). You really think a guy that can level mountains would stay with a woman that berates him so much if he didn't love her? Or that she would stay with a slow-witted bruiser if she didn't find something charming and loveable? As for Krillin...that guy gets so much abuse, so little credit, and doesn't get to be shown as powerful as he should be. I take #18 as Karma rewarding the guy. Yeah, it would've been interesting to see just HOW that relationship blossomed, but like you said, it's not what the show's about.
** Correction: Vegeta and Bulma's mini-arc was pure filler in the anime. In the manga the only thing suggesting an attraction was Bulma telling him to behave himself while he stayed at her house. The anime added in filler because the relationship basically came out of nowhere because Toriyama needed another [=SSJ=] and [[PairtheSpares Bulma was the only girl left.]]
** The correction is partially right. While Bulma was picked because she was the only woman of the group left to bare the next [=SSJ=], Toriyama has stated in an interview that the filler had accurately summarized his idea on how the two started to become involved (mostly on Bulma's part before her break up with Yamcha). It wasn't in the manga because, as a troper stated earlier, Toriyama didn't think he could write anything romantic and thus left it out.
** Also, Krillin and 18 did have development, at least on a one-sided basis. Krillin crushed on her because of a combination of her whimsical kiss on the cheek and his slow realization that she and her brother were barely any more evil than he was as a kid. Acting on this all, when he could've suspended her with the controller Bulma built and destroyed her, he instead broke the controller, tried to urge her to run, and then fought by her side to fend Cell off even if it was in vain. After Gohan forced Cell to cough her up at the Cell Games (which has been debated about here as well), Krillin went and tended to her side for the duration of the battle. In the aftermath up on the lookout, she realized his feelings for her and got upset for a cup of coffee, but after watching how, when the gang summoned Shenron and had no ideas for the last wish, Krillin worked to spend it on her and her brother's behalf, she came to accept his kindness to a decent enough degree before leaving (although I'm not sure how much of this sentence was or wasn't filler, so take it as you may).
** So you say there is '''no''' romantic developments in the same sentence as mentioning a couple that did have romantic development? Just because you didn't like it, doesn't mean you can say there is no development. Gohan/Videl isn't the only couple to get development, either.
* Why didn't Baba get any strong fighters from the past to help out agaisnt the Saiyans/Androids/Buu? I guess Buu fight of been too strong for anyone in otherworld, and POSSIBLY the Androids/Cell, but surely there was someone who had millions of years to train was strong enough to take down Vegeta and Nappa.
** Picon (Pikon?) was the strongest of their lot and was explicitly outclassed by Goku. It wouldn't have helped.
*** Pikhan was outclassed by Goku ''after the Cell Games''. He would have been far and away the stronger back in the Saiyan Saga.
** Pikhan was filler. Also, why makes you think Baba *could* get Pikhan? There's no reason to think that Baba can get anyone from anywhere in the galaxy, and there might well have never been anyone on Earth strong enough to fight Vegeta.
** Baba can't just go and get some dead warrior to fix the living problems, it's the live people who should take care of their own business, besides you only get one day to return from the afterlife and if those warriors hadn't already used theirs up then probably they wouldn't want to use it on that.
*** This unfortunately raises a massive plothole. Baba has an army that consists of four warriors permanently at her base - Spike the Devil Man, Fangs the vampire, the Invisible man and a Mummy. Now, these guys are incredibly weak by even King Piccolo's standards, explaining why we don't see them again. But... Spike the Devil Man has access to the Devilmite Beam, an attack capable of literally making the heart ''explode'' of any living fighter that doesn't have a pure heart. This technique works immediately and is capable of fully working even if there is the ''faintest trace of evil.'' This makes it one of the most powerful and devastating anti-personnel techniques in the entire Dragon Ball universe. Spike could one-shot ''any'' of the Saiyan Warriors, both Piccolo's, Frieza, the Ginyu Force, Baby, Omega Shenron and even a good percentage of the Z-Warriors. Remember how Goku was immune to the Devilmite Beam because of his pure heart? well Super Saiyan amplifies a Saiyans aggressive instincts making them cold and vicious - essentially meaning Spike could even kill Super Saiyan 4 Goku, Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks, Super Saiyan 2 Gohan and even Vegito. The only exceptions would be Cell and Buu due to their regenerative capabilites. Why have we never seen this guy again? why didn't Baba or any of her superiors in Otherworld order her to send Spike into battle alongside the Z Warriors? and why hasn't anyone tried to copy this technique given that it is essentially the most powerful non-destructive force in the history of the universe?
**** If it's capable of working if there is even the faintest trace of evil, [[EarthShatteringKaboom what would happen if it was used on someone that ridiculously evil?]]
*** We don't really see MUCH evidence that going Super Saiyan makes you cold, evil or particularly aggressive. Goku becomes Super Saiyan and tries as hard as he can, to the point of giving him some energy so he can escape the dying world, to spare the man who'd just killed his best friend. That's not cold, it's barely aggressive. Vegeta doesn't change, nor does Trunks. Level 2 makes Gohan more aggressive but as we've seen from Gohan vs Raditz, Vegeta and Cell I'd say the common theme here is "DON'T HURT MY DADDY". I've always felt that Super Saiyan's rage was always a huge missed opportunity. Unlike Tailed Naruto or Masked Ichigo where even friends need to be on notice.
**** Because Super Saiyan is the master form. The "dangerous to friend and foe alike" is covered by the Oozaru form.
*** I wouldn't call it a plothole per se, just a case of ForgottenPhlebotinum that sort of makes sense. Not sure one could assume that technique could be copied either. Funnily enough, I think this technique is played for laughs in one of the Dragon Ball Z games(BT 3??) in where the move deals great damage under certain circumstances.
*** I agree with the above troper, and I'd also like to point out that ''"these guys are incredibly weak by even King Piccolo's standards"''. That technique didn't seem particularly fast/instantaneous to me, and I'm sure everyone near the level of King Piccolo would be fully able to avoid it.
*** It is definitely a forgotten plebotinum. According the the dragonball wiki, which is pretty accurate down to the gun random mooks use, BT3 has a "What If?" story putting him against both Freeza and King Cooler. He wins easily thanks to his devil beam. He would have a decent chance of fighting of most of the villains in the series, assuming they don't kill him first. And when was the last time anyone killed anyone in DBZ before they could use their ultimate attack?
** Hell, why didn't Baba warn the Z-Fighters of every villain!? She clearly can see into the future, as seen at the end of the original series, so why didn't she look into the future, find the villain's weakpoint ("GRAB HIS TAIL! Like when you were a child!"), and tell them? Would've saved a lot of trouble! ("When you get to Namek, there will be a creature who is more powerful than Vegeta, and will kill your best friend!")
*** She stated just before the battle against the Saiyans that she wasn't able to predict the outcome of the fight. In the Fridge Brilliance section there's an interesting hint that all the time travel from Trunks and Cell could have messed up with her ability.
* Why can't Piccolo hatch demon warriors like Demon King Piccolo could? I mean, they're both standard Namekians, and Piccolo is a clone of his dad, after all. Come to think of it, why didn't Nail just hatch himself an army once Frieza started killing stuff? Come to think of it again, why didn't Kami try that once he got wind of Vegeta and Nappa? Before you say "too old", Demon King Piccolo made Tambourine and Cymbal before wishing himself back to youth. And even if they were fairly weak, an army would've been nice to have against the saiyans.
** Good news for you: the live action movie combines Picollo Daimaoh with Picollo Jr., thus giving "Picollo" the ability to summon monsters.
** '''A)''' IIRC, generating a minion of useful strength literally took years off King Piccolo's life. Piccolo Jr. most likely knew this and preferred to rely on his own power.\\
'''B)''' As we saw when Piccolo and Krillin used the Tri-form against Nappa, and he swatted them, it probably wouldn't have helped much.
** The way I see it, that's just not Piccolo's style under any situation, and we all saw what came of the ''last'' guy made out of Kami, so I can see him being apprehensive about the idea.
** And Yajirobe, who is no match for Demon King Piccolo, was '''''literally''''' eating Demon Warriors for breakfast.
** He could have at least used them against those weird little plant man minons that Nappa planted, so as to even the playing field...
*** Each of the Saibamen was as strong as Raditz was. He didn't want to risk any kids being killed instantly- he was starting to have a Main/HeelFaceTurn, so he wouldn't want to ''give birth'' literally for no reason but to condemn the kids to death.
*** Incidentally, this probably explains where Cell got the ability to produce offspring.
* How the HFIL is Gohan such a remarkably well-adjusted individual? Lets review his childhood, shall we?
** Age 4-5(Raditz, Piccolo's training): Dad dies. Main/TrainingFromHell by ''Satan'' away from home and family
*** Technically, Satan ''junior'', who is Satan's clone-son, but still....
**** So, not The Devil, The Antichrist.
***** [[DragonBallZAbridged "DODGE!"]]
** Age 5-7(In Space): In space, still away from home and family, "company" and adult influences a grown woman pushing 30 and childlike midget. Witness to genocide, fighting for own life nigh-constantly. Best friend/only adult influence (the childlike midget) dies.
** Age 7-8(Between return to earth and arrival of Trunks, Garlic Jr. goes here) : Vacation, at home. Everyone on earth suddenly against him, ''must save God'', fighting closest family and friends. Dad MIA.
*** Garlic Jr. is insignificant anime filler.
**** Still, must have been psychologically taxing in the animeverse.
***** But the animeverse is insignificant filler and thus has no bearing on Gohan's canon psychology.
****** I disagree. While the anime is filled with stuff that wasn't in the manga and filler material, it does have some level of canon. I know it's hard to accept what with all the contradictions but the anime IS the next highest level of canon after the manga. However Garlic Junior seems to be somewhat of an exception, as it has no mention at all in the manga and thus is a bit disputed.
****** Screw it, lets just call them two alternate universes. Mangaverse becomes Dragon Ball Online, Animeverse becomes GT, all the arguing over filler, canon and stuff just ends and everybody is happy.
** Age 8-11(training for androids, androids): More Main/TrainingFromHell, threat of apocalyptic level robots killing everyone he knows and loves hanging over his head. Followed by several weeks of on the run and hiding from undetectable killer robots.
*** He doesn't consider it training from hell at all. He's with his Dad and beloved Piccolo, after all.
**** The threat of killer robots fated to kill them all probably weighed on his mind a bit
** 11-12(year in Room of Spirit and Time): Still more training, now in nigh-solitary confinement with nigh-sensory deprivation, uncomfortable climate, and extreme gravity
*** Doesn't consider it training from hell.
**** What? Goku himself points out that he woudn't have been able to psychologically handle it at Gohan's age. ''Nobody'' could be there for any extended period of time without going loco. It may have been fun for the first few weeks, but not much past.
***** To clarify, he doesn't consider it TrainingFromHell because he's with his Dad. If he was alone like Goku was at that age, of course he wouldn't be able to stand it either.
** Age 12(vs Cell): Sees dad die ''again'', bit of a mental breakdown seen while fighting Cell. Saves world (barely), extreme injury, no recognition or appreciation whatsoever.
*** No argument there.
*** At least he hears his Dad say "Gohan, I'm ''so'' proud of you!"
*** *sniffle* CrowningMomentOfHeartwarming *sniffle*
*** He doesn't really care about recognition. On the other hand, him indulging his super powered evil side is the reason that Goku was dead in the first place.
** 12-19(pre-Buu timeskip): Living at home in boonies with psycho mother and no contact with any of closest friends
*** Mother is not psycho. Grandfather is there too. Beloved little brother is around too. Does not appear to mind living in the boonies.
**** Not psycho? She's literally trying to suppress the instincts of 50% of his genome and putting the planet at risk so she can have a smart son. And he doesn't mind? He's probably just bottling any problems up.
***** To him she's not psycho. Remember he ''does'' want to be a scholar, far more than he wants to fight, despite his great fighting potential.
*** Has contact with other people. It is mentioned he visits Trunks (and obviously Trunks and Goten play together), and Bulma told him ''before'' going to school that showing his new strength could be trouble. I assume given he isn't as clueless as his father, he takes advantage of his speed to visit Kame House on occasion. He is still seems to have no friends his age, but he does have social contact outside his family. Although, now that I think about it, he does visit Dende, who is roughly his age, despite being God and all.
* How the hell did a guy with his formative years spent like that end up a well-adjusted functioning member of society easily mistakable in manner for a librarian, and not a semi-psychopathic bundle of neuroses?
** Well, right around where your list ends, he becomes active as the Great Saiyaman. Is this well-adjusted? Sure, there's all kinds of stuff going on in this Verse, but Sentai heroism comes across as... less than sane. Also, he retires from any and all serious villain-bashing at this point, despite being powerful enough to turn some of those tides (Buu Saga fuck-up notwithstanding).
*** Would you really want to see The Great Saiyaman as a NinetiesAntiHero?
**** Yes, yes I would. Also, his "human" persona seems to be a bit StepfordSmiler in post-Cell Z, and shallow in GT. This troper assumes he stayed snapped after Cell, and just used some psychological cellophane tape instead of trying to work things out nice and proper. (Perfect fodder for a 90s antihero Great Saiyaman.)
*** Given how unflappable both his parents are, it would've been more surprising if he ''was'' more screwed up.
*** And, even besides that his whole Great Saiyaman thing, he's screwed up anyway. When he gets angry he turns into a brutally different person? Who loves to sadistically beat the life out of anyone who angers him? Yeah, that's normal... And, even said, there was a pretty good story on [[http://www.fanfiction.net a particular website many of us know of]] that deals with Babidi choosing him as his Majin warrior instead of Vegeta just for the sadistic hell of it.
** And after all, the kid is half-Saiyan. Judging by what little we know of Saiyan society it seems to be a rather brutal, militaristic, and chaotic lifestyle. The traditional Saiyan childhood probably involves a lot of fighting for one's life and watching friends and family members get killed. Setting aside the psychological implications of the whole Great Saiyaman thing, maybe Saiyans are just naturally better at dealing with emotional trauma.
** Gohan's been surrounded all his life by people who've grown up among chaos, violence and weirdness, presumably they've helped him adapt to that kind of life, especially Piccolo. That, and he seems to have inherited his happy-go-lucky streak from his father. As for the physical trauma, I'm pretty sure that after all that TrainingFromHell he doesn't mind at all. That and Saiyans seem to have a pretty high pain tolerance.
** Btw, according to my math, Gohan would've been between 9 and a half and 10 when he fought Cell, not 12. In DBZ volume 20 it says he is 16 years old, and then Chichi mentions it's been 7 years since she last saw Goku. 16-7 = 9, 10 at most if he'll be 17 later that year.
*** He was six during the Namek saga, year later Frieza shows up on Earth(seven), three years later the Androids show up(ten), spends the better part of a year inside the hyperbolic time chamber(eleven) and fights Cell. So he's ten/eleven during the Cell fight; I could be remembering it wrong and if I'm not it was probably just anime filler, but I'm fairly sure there was an episode detailing his eleventh birthday party just prior to the cell games, actually.
*** I think the "five" age in the original English dub was a deliberate translation error. Not sure what difference that would make.
* Now that the Dragon Balls are as easy to find as picking flowers, how come Vegeta has never tried to bring back Planet Vegeta and his family? By the end of the series he's powerful enough that none of them would be a match for him, and Goku would just swat them down if they tried to take over any planets.
** For the same reason Superman didn't travel back in time to save Krypton, or Batman didn't travel back in time to save his parents, even thought the JLA Watchtower has a time machine: because the story says so.
** By that time, the Earth Dragon Balls could've only restored the planet, not the people. (One-year time limit to resurrect someone). The Namekian Dragon Balls could've circumvented this (maybe), but you'd need to make the wishes in the Namek native tongue. And The Nameks wouldn't have helped him (and not just because they'd remember him killing as many of their kind as Frieza).
** I'm talking at any time in the series, not just during the Namek saga. After Buu, maybe. If necessary have Goku make the wish for you (bait him with the thought of super strong fighters). What I'm wondering is why Vegeta never even thought of it.
*** Still would've been far too late to resurrect the people with the Earth Dragon Balls (even the Goku!Balls)
**** Not necessarily. They had Dende as a new god who could make new Dragon Balls with new rules.
**** Which he did, and they ''still'' couldn't.
**** I don't remember them saying at that point that the old rule was still in effect. So many old rules had been tossed out at that point anyway.
** Use the Earth Dragon Balls to find out how to phrase the wish in Namekian, then use the Namekian ones to make the main wish.
*** Which still leaves you with the problem with the Nameks saying "no".
*** Also (as reminded by the Main/DeaderThanDead section), the Namek Dragon Balls ''can'' resurrect dead people multiple times, but it was explicitly stated that they can only bring back one person per wish. (See Piccolo's resurrection)
**** This limitation did no longer apply to the new Dragon Balls. During the Buu-Saga, they were able to revive all humans at the same time.
** Why would Vegeta ''want'' to bring back his family? He's expressed his disdain for them several times in the series (notably to Doria and later to Freezer). He explicitly says he's not using the Dragon Balls to bring back Raditz, and he kills Nappa himself. The only Saiyan he ever gets any kind of respect for is Goku, and the first time he admits it is towards the end of the Cell arc.
*** There's a big difference between Vegeta not liking Raditz or his family all that much and Vegeta not caring that his ''entire species'' was essentially extinct. I mean, I guess you could say Vegeta didn't want to risk any other Saiyan surpassing him in power (early in the Frieza Saga he got all bent out of shape that a "common soldier" like Goku turned out to be more powerful than him) but even that seems a bit of a stretch...
** Vegeta couldn't revive his race if he wanted to. Of course, when he realized Goku was resurrected, he thought of wishing for his own immortality before the Saiyan race. But even then, the Saiyans had been wiped out for ''twenty-five'' years. Arguably nothing could be done. Also, the resurrection of the Nameks killed by Freeza or in his name were resurrected. Not those by Vegeta. One would presume that they couldn't revive that group if they wanted. However, it would seem the Namekian Dragon Balls also have a one-year limit to death. Or in their case, three Namekian years. Also, what good is reviving the planet (If possible. It was destroyed over several decades ago), if the Dragon God can't revive the people?
** A better question would have been, why didn't Vegeta use Earth's Dragon Balls to wish himself immortal? He considered it, but then just forgot about it. Isn't there a HandWave or something?
*** If I'm not mistaken, the reason why he wanted immortality in the first place was to always be able to eventually kill Freeza, no matter how many times he lost. After Freeza's death and attaining a family, it wasn't important to him anymore.
* Why has no one ever called Goku on his selfish bullshit? He'd disappear for - literally - years at a time, without a word to anyone. He decides it's time to come back how and EVERYONE (Except Vegeta) is all "OMG GOKU! YAYZ!"
** Because it's not selfish most of the time. See here:
-->Splits from the group after Pilaf.
---->Reason: Roshi offered to let him live there; Goku said he would after the Dragon Balls were collected.
-->Leaves after 21st Tournament
---->To find his grandpa's Dragon Ball, and meets with everyone again over the next couple days anyway
-->Leaves after Baba's tournament
---->Roshi orders him to train on his own all over the world.
-->Leaves after the 22nd Tournament
---->To get vengeance for Krillin's death.
-->Stays on Kami's Lookout after King Piccolo
---->Deal to restore the Dragon Balls; everyone dies anyway if he doesn't.
-->Leaves after 23rd Tournament
---->Has a wife.
-->Leaves after Raditz.
---->Dead. And everyone else is dead if he doesn't jump through some Otherworld hoops.
-->Says no to coming back on Porunga's wish
---->In the middle of teleportation training, and learning to control the violent Super Saiyan form.
-->Leaves after Cell
---->Dead, can't be wished back. Note that even without his goodbye speech, Shenron had already said "Nope, can't do it" so it was a moot point.
** Only at the end of Z does he just run off for selfish reason, and we don't get to see the reactions to him coming back.
** I was referring more to his DBZ absences. He didn't owe anybody anything in Dragon Ball and was free to come and go as he chose. The ones I was referring to:
*** After Frieza: Chose not to come back, spends two more years in space. Doesn't tell anyone why.
**** I think the reason given for this was that he was learning how to control his newfound Super Saiyan powers out of fear that he would accidentally transform and hurt someone.
**** No, he never mentioned that. Goku's stated reason in canon is that he's learning teleportation from the Yadarat, and it took him a while year to learn it.
** After Cell: Shenron couldn't bring him back for the same reason he couldn't simply yank him back after Frieza: He can't directly effect someone stronger than him, against his will (The same reason he couldn't simply zap Nappa and Vegeta before they got to Earth). With his wife and son listening in, he straight up states he doesn't want to come back. Note that he's an even bigger JerkAss in the manga. At least in the anime he gives some bullshit "everything bad that's happened is directly my fault and if I'm gone, those things won't happen" excuse. In the Manga? "All the strong guys are dead or related to me. Earth is boring, I'm going exploring."
*** Don't make stuff up. In the manga he uses the same "everything bad that's happened is directly my fault and if I'm gone, those things won't happen" excuse, and this is '''AFTER''' Shenlong has said he can't bring Goku back '''not because''' he can't yank him back but because the new Dragon Balls that Dende made can't bring back anyone who has already been resurrected. Goku ''can't'' come back either way you cut it. And in fact, Goku is '''never''' revived by the Dragon Balls for the rest of the series. Read the post above you again. And read the manga too while you're at it.
**** They could easily have used the Earth Dragon Balls to teleport to New Namek and use their Dragon Balls to wish back Goku. Fact is, Goku didn't come back because he didn't want to. Which makes him a self-centred dick abandoning his family. Although you could argue that saving the universe earns him some leeway, but still.
** After Buu - runs off from his wife and TWO sons (one of which he'd just found out about) to go train the Uub, Buu's reincarnation.
*** "After Buu"? "Just found out about"? He stayed with his family for ten years after Buu's death before running off to train Uub.
**** There's also nothing that indicated he didn't make trips to visit his family during the training period of Uub (and GT doesn't exist in canon, so don't bring it up) it's not like it'd take him more than 5 seconds with his teleportation.
**** In fact, he explicitly mentions to Pan that he will visit (in episode 276/291 in the anime). He says this in the manga too, btw.
** Also, this is part of the charm of Chichi/Milk's character: she's the only one who sees Goku as a selfish asshole who constantly runs away from his home and family to fight.
*** 'Charm'? There's a word I've never heard in connection to Chi-Chi.
*** Try "lethal fascination."
** Would YOU want to be Chichi's husband?
*** [[@/MacPhisto Oh yeah]]. [[FamilyGuy I would wreck that chick]].
** Also, if you point out out Goku ''loves'' a good fight (not marital), and loves a good rival even better, being a Saiyan, Goku just felt compelled to train Uub. Yes. That's right. The word is ''train''. Not so selfish when you look at it from that point of view is it? I mean, only a guy like Goku would want to help a boy with a vast potential control his powers so that he can be a hero like him. And that's not say he didn't have his rematch with Vegeta, say hello to his many friends and visit and spend time with his family.
*** Given everyone's reaction when he reappeared in GT, I'd say he didn't visit, or at least he didn't very often. And, frankly, it's not that training Uub did all that much good, in the long run.
**** Who cares what GT says? Discontinuity, anyone?
***** FanonDiscontinuity (and Fanon) are an individual thing, not a "you have to agree" thing. I see it as, Animeverse leads to GT, Mangaverse leads to Online. And I prefer the Animeverse.
***** Not quite true. GT relies on Z more so than Z leads to GT, although in some dubs you see GT foreshadowing from Z (like Elder Kai's opposition to using the dragon balls). "Animeverse" is supposed to be the "Mangaverse" with more depth (ie: it relies on it).
**** Besides, the cast never keep in contact with each other between arcs.
**** Well, before the final tournament Bulma points that Goku is the only one who doesn't show at reunions.
** Okay, just so that I can include a bit more on the whole not coming back at the end of the Cell Games: Yeah, okay, Shenlong couldn't bring him back, because he was wished back to life once before. However, Goku ''could've'' been selfless this time and simply said, "Okay! Use the Namekian dragonballs! King Kai and I know where it is, and we'll help you get there!" He was being a total ass to his son and wife. If I were Gohan, I would've turned into [=SSJ2=] and asked Shenlong to teleport me to whereever Goku was and beat the crap out of him.
*** You won't find many people defending Goku's actions, particularly not as they pertain to his obligations as a father and husband. He did have a solid point though about how he seems to be the source of everything that goes wrong and depending on how you want to look at it he's not wrong. Raditz came to pick him up, Vegeta and Nappa came to get the Dragonballs they heard about from Raditz, his friends went to Namek to revive friends who wouldn't have died if not for Vegeta and Nappa. Which attracts Frieza. The andriods may still have been an issue. Without a distraction from Goku however Vegeta would have ended Buu pretty quickly. So while he's more easily forgiven than Vegeta for his part in the world being in peril all the time, he's not wrong.
**** Actually when you think about it Piccolo is far more responsible for the early events of the series than Goku because of the fact it was his fault Vegeta and Nappa were summoned due to having shot his mouth off about the Dragonballs in the range of Raditz's Scouter. Given how neither of them particularly seemed to care that much about him there is a good chance they would have just ignored the Earth and continued on their way. The Androids and Cell were still entirely Goku's fault though as they are a direct consequence of him annihilating the Red Ribbon Army years beforehand and there is really no question the Z Fighters would have been eliminated. Without the Saiyan threat Goku would have had no reason to have sought out King Kai's training as Piccolo would have been his only serious enemy - which means no Kaioken, no Spirit Bomb and ultimately no Super Saiyan. So yeah; Goku is absolutely correct in saying that his presence does indeed endanger the planet.
***** The androids were specifically modeled to be stronger than Goku when Gero last observed him in his battle with Vegeta. If his final battle had been vs Raditz instead (Remember he jumped from three hundred to over 9000 in this gap) the androids presumably would have been MUCH MUCH weaker. Weak enough that the power of team work would have still been viable like it was against Nappa.
* Why didn't Piccolo take over as guardian of earth at some point after the Cell Saga? By that point he was considerably stronger than a regular super saiyan; one of the most stated limitations of the dragon balls is the dragon can't affect beings stronger than its creator. If Piccolo took over and made a new dragon, then Shenron's powers would presumably vastly increase. While this wasn't necessarily an immediate concern, what with Gohan and Vegeta still around to handle any threats during this time, Piccolo was going to outlive them and the dragon balls would still be around for hundreds of years, giving future generations a huge advantage.
** Because by that point, Dende was the new Guardian of the Earth. Either it just never occured to Piccolo that he could take over after Kami, or he didn't want the job (didn't he once comment how he thought Kami's job was a waste?) I mean, if he did want to be the new guardian, he would've cut Goku's search short by saying that he'd gladly do it.
** The reason Kami and Piccolo separated in the first place was because the evil that was inside the Nameless Namekian, which made him unfit to become Kamisama. After they reunited Piccolo was again unfit to become Earth's god so Dende had to stay permanently in place, he wasn't a temporal solution. Also, apparently only a Namek in a Planet's guardian/god position (Kami, Guru) is able to make Dragonballs in the first place, so there.
*** Except the evil inside the Nameless Namekian disqualifying him to be Kamisama was the OPINION of the previous Kami. He apparently was strong enough that he had to give up his position or at least the Namelss was polite enough not to force his hand. Also where is it stated that only a God/Gaurdian can create Dragonballs?
* I know that Dragonball Z isn't really known for its scientific accuracy, but how come the Z fighters are able to hear each other while they're flying? The roar of the wind rushing past their ears should be enough to drown their voices out even if they're yelling. And let's not forget that later in the series these characters are clearly flying faster than the speed of sound (it's been mentioned several times that they're able to fly faster than the fastest jets), so in those cases they'd be outrunning the sounds their own voices, and then their voices would be drowned out by the sonic boom.
** Ki enhanced hearing. Yes its a cop out but ''everything'' in this series is the result of either ki or magic.
* Chilled was incredibly powerful, a lot more than we saw. We know that Frieza's species doesn't actually transform "up" to gain power, they transform DOWN to control their radical power. Chilled in his most restrained form was able breifly to hold off an attack from a Super Saiyan. Compare this to Frieza who needed his 4th form to fight a NON Super Saiyan. Judging by how much more powerful Frieza's 4th and Cooler's 5th form are Chilled probably would have curb stomped Bardock in form 2.
** I'm sorry but [[FlatWhat who is Chilled?]] because he sounds like he has AssPull level powers to me.
** He is the villain from the new Bardock manga and Ova, an ancestor of Frieza's family who fought [=SSJ=] Bardock and was defeated. Speaking of which, Bardock was around 10k points in the Special, if he got a Zenkai after Frieza's attack his power may have raised to around 20k, so when he transformed into [=SSJ=] his power would have gone up to around 500k-1M, if Bardock was able to defeat Chilled he would have had to be much weaker than that, which makes him inferior to Form 1 Frieza.
** I'm not going to argue Personal Continuity here because we all have the right to discover our own interpretation of how a story should be told. However plot holes as glaring as that one is why barely canon manga/films such as this tend to drag down the entire franchise. For example if we were to assume both Chilled and Cooler are real, then how the hell did Frieza become so feared and powerful when he was so god damn weak in comparison to the rest of his family? Also the family theme naming is starting to get pretty ridiculous. I would bet real money we will one day encounter the dreaded Icebox.
*** You could make argument that Frieza is the most powerful member of his family. Chilled never got started, all we know for certain is he couldn't beat a Super Saiyan in his weakest form. As for Cooler he had to transform to a fifth form to fight Goku and got destroyed when Goku went Super Saiyan. All the evidence suppors Frieza>Cooler. King Cold and Chilled we honestly don't have enough data to chart them.
**** Fourth form Frieza was 120million, Fifth form Cooler was 470million(Frieza was stronger than Cooler's fourth form, though). That being said, we're not entirely clear on how the species transformations work. Yes, we know they transform down to limit their power instead of transforming up to increase it, and yes we know that Frieza's fourth form was his true form. We do not, however, know for certainty that Chilled wasn't in his true form when he fought Bardock. Likewise, we don't know that Cold is actually in his "second form" or that Cooler is actually in his "fourth form". Just because their appearances are similar to Frieza's various forms doesn't mean they have the same number or equate to the same relative level of power.
**** Where is it documented that Fifth Form Cooler was 470 million? Super Saiyan Goku wasn't that much stronger than Frieza and in Cooler's revenge he clearly hadn't managed to master transforming at will. I find it hard to believe he was over 500 million in the movie.
**** Freezer’s battle power was one million five hundred thousand while Goku’s was three million. Heck, to give you an idea, Broly’s BP is thirty three million; enough to beat up the Super Saiyan 2 with ease. So yeah, four hundred and seventy million is a bit of an exaggeration. That aside, I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to assume Cooler has a better control of his powers as well as having surpassed the limits by getting an extra transformation. Can’t speak about King Cold, though. And as for Chilled…evidently Toriyama was in the need to remodel his kitchen.
* Seriously - why was Tien the only one not willing to let Vegeta off the hook for all the nasty things he did? Not attacking him because he could kill you without effort is one thing. But the other Z-Senshi were downright chummy with him. (Well, as chummy as you could be with Vegeta).
** Yamcha never had much of a backbone, Krillin outright says he doesn't antagonize Vegeta (and Piccolo, for that matter) so they won't go on a rampage, Gohan has practically zero interaction with him, and Goku's just that kind of guy. Nobody else is anywhere near his weight class.
** Also, think about what happened to Tien in the Saiyan Arc. Sure, Piccolo and Yamcha also died at Nappa's hand, but Tien had to watch Chiaotzu die in a vain attempt to kill Nappa, and then he had his freaking arm torn off before he died too.
*** Speaking of which, Nappa killed all their friends,and Vegeta killed Nappa.So,shouldn't that help his case?
**** Nope, because he didn't kill him out of repentance or penance but because Nappa was embarrassing him. It's the thought that counts, not the deed.
** By the time Cell and the androids rolled around, even Ten Shin Han accepted Vegeta as part of the team.
** Even with all these guys, to call their relationships "chummy" is an extreme exaggeration. They put up with him and vice-versa, but all the way to the end of the Cell saga, the only one who even tries to be friendly with Vegeta is Goku. Even Gohan keeps his distance until the Saiyaman saga, by which point Vegeta had softened up considerably.
** Except for Bulma, who has a kid by and later MARRIES the man responsible for her ex-boyfriend's death.
*** Well, Krillin implied/told Bulma during Freeza's return episodes that it would be a good idea to become friends with Vegeta so that he can do a HeelFaceTurn. They are likely "Friends with Benefits," by the Cell Saga.
*** Even Bulma still thinks he's a huge jerk all the way to the end of Cell Saga...which leaves us fans to be eternally tormented by the question of how exactly they got far enough to err, produce Trunks. This troper suspects alcohol was involved.
**** This troper agrees with the above statement about alcohol.
**** The Cell Saga made it clear that what Vegeta and Bulma had was lust, not love. See Trunks' blushing confession that their relationship was "more of a physical thing." (''other troper question: where is this line stated? I don't remember it'') This Troper could easily see them as the anime equivalent of The Bickersons. The really WTFery comes with the Great Saiyaman story where they're HappilyMarried. Note that neither the manga nor anime try to explain how those two have stayed together without a murder occuring.
***** How? They're raising a child together. Neither wants to hurt little Trunks, so they don't separate, and they find common ground in raising him and such. Insert generic romance movie here.
****** Future Trunks is responsible for that. In 'his' timeline Bulma and Vegeta never did get together, but thanks to Vegeta meeting FT in this timeline he realized "you know my son's a pretty cool guy" and he wanted to stick around and raise him. Cue HappilyMarried for them and "my dad wasn't so bad" for Future Trunks and everybody's happy.
**** I think I solved the Bulma-Vegeta puzzle. Calculating her age at the time Trunks was born she would've been 31/32-ish. Nothing like The Attack of the Biological Clock Blues to make the nearest vaguely male alien look attractive. As for Vegeta, who'd turn down a free slice of hot poontang pie?
**** The answer to this question is pretty easy to explain. It's basically kinda like in ComicBook/{{Watchmen}} between Edward Blake(the Comedian) and Sally Jupiter (the first Silk Spectre), without the AttemptedRape. As Future Trunks explained, Yamcha and Bulma broke up. Bulma was feeling very lonely, but then she saw in Vegeta the same loneliness and his gradual decency (but not that much yet), masked by pride. They had a one-night stand, but no romance developed further from there until years later. That's all. Nothing confusing about it. That's how they can dislike each other, but still have a kid together. Plenty of examples like that in RealLife.
**** Further question, how the hell do [[NighInvulnerability Saiyans]] "produce" with humans without any major squick [[RedMist happening?]]
***** What's Squick about it? We can tell from naked pics of Goku from his childhood that Saiyans are built exactly like humans, except for the tail thing. In a world populated with flying cats, talking pigs and dinosaurs, a human (or so they think) with a tail isn't anything to be squicked out about. No one's squicked by Tenshinhan, for example, and he's got three eyes. And as for Bulma she most likely didn't care.
****** I think he's talking about the Saiyans "breaking" their partner. Remember, even though he WAS in SS at the time Goku shattered a wine glass by accident. With two fingers. Now then imagine what happens when they're all "riled up" and don't have the best self control
***** AFAIK only Goku has problems controlling his strength in the manga (remember him whacking Chichi by accident). All the other Saiyan and Saiyan hybrids hold themselves back just fine. It's either because of his head trauma or because he's just plain Goku.
***** Or, you know, RuleOfFunny.
* Vegeta is awful forgiving awful fast. I know becoming the most powerful being on the presumably in the universe can put you in a mighty good mood but honestly after at everything Gohan and Krillian put him through both intentionally and unintentionally there is no way they'd still be alive when Goku arrives two years later if I'm Vegeta. I kill Piccolo and Gohan out right because they are threats expecially if I let my gaurd down. I don't believe Goku's alive so I'm not worried about him showing up. Meanwhile I either train up to Super Saiyan which I now know is possible OR I install myself as the the new emperor of Earth. Sure it ends badly for me when Goku shows up and curb stomps me but no way is the kid who screwed me out of immortality getting a pass.
** At the end of the Namek saga, Piccolo was pretty much his equal. "Just kill Piccolo" just wasn't going to happen. Not to mention Vegeta's purpose in life was destroying Frieza and becoming the strongest Saiyan ever. With Goku swiping both goals out from under him, his focus shifted to defeating/surpassing Goku. Ruling Earth never crossed his mind. And even if it did: Again - Piccolo (who, at this point, still had his trump card of re-merging with Kami)
*** We don't have anyway of knowing if Kami would have consented. Considering he didn't use that solution with Vegeta and Nappa, a decision that directly led to his death, and how hesitant he was to step into the android situation it's likely that King Vegeta is not a sufficient threat for him to accept that.
*** Piccolo was nowhere near Vegeta's level. He didn't get much of a chance to show off after his final Namek-era power-up (assuming that being resurrected didn't give him yet another one), but Vegeta was able to flat out outrun(fly) an attack that Piccolo only saw as a glint of light that instantly caused people/islands behind him to die. On the other hand, without Frieza to try and overthrow, he had no real reason to try and avenge himself on the guys that had nearly gotten themselves killed repeatedly (or actually, in Kuririn's case) helping him overthrow Frieza, and put themselves in harm's way to save his life at least once (against Recoome). He only wanted the immortality so that he could beat Frieza, so as long as they leave him alone now that all that is done with, he's just dandy with training himself to Goku's level. Besides, he might even appreciate his first beating, considering that it was what allowed him to stand a chance against Frieza's men on Namek.
**** Vegeta was at most Piccolo's equal by that point. Piccolo stood up to Form 2 Frieza fairly well, while Vegeta didn't have a chance. His healing by Dende boosted him, but there's no way it pushed him -that- far.
** Having an on-again-off-again with an attractive superwealthy technowhiz with an endless supply of free (to you) training equipment and effectively zero serious rivals might be the better situation that Vegeta might have otherwise hoped for. As for the grudge against Gohan and Krillin, it may be safe to say he was simply biding his time until he was sure he could curb stomp any opposition or repercussion. The only time he knew for a fact that he was the strongest Z-Fighter around happened to coincide with other enemies attracting the lion's share of his battle lust.
* What's with Dr. Gero and Androids? Okay, I can understand making yourself an android and converting two young adults into cyborgs. I can even understand making a GentleGiant like #16. But why would you make your partner a bastardized Chinese doll? Why would you make your earlier androids some silver guy with a ponytail and the most racist caricature ever of a black man? And why would you make the android directly preceding him a perfect fit for a KKK rally, Southern accent and all?
** Can't speak about 19 (the doll), but 13 (the southern guy), 14 (the ponytailed guy) and 15 (the purple guy) only appear in a Movie, therefore aren't canon (at least their appearance isn't).
*** Two things: one, if you had a battle machine powerful enough to destroy a city in the blink of an eye at your beck and call, would you really care what does it look like? Two, the whole racial caricature and southern accent comes from the Funimation dub. In the original Japanese (and Latin American for that matter) dub, Androids 14 and 15 are nearly mute, save for a couple of “Son Goku” mutterings, while Android 13 speaks with no “accent”.
*** Also, this page is about general questions, meaning the movies still count. Granted the manga and anime rank higher in canon, but simply saying "not manga, not canon" isn't an answer.
* Why does almost every character treat Yamcha with extreme callousness during and after the Android arc? Yamcha lost the woman he was with from his early teens to mid thirties to the sociopath who had previously killed him and its even implied he was planning on marrying her. Then later Yamcha finds out he's weak and quits defending the World which must be the equivalent of losing your job. His friends rather then support Yamcha, respond by making jokes that the baby isn't his or about his weakness. So much for TrueCompanions, did the series turn into a SadistShow when I wasn't looking?
** Toriyama wasn't focusing on personal relationships at all at that time and all of the digs are DubText by Funimation.
* We have heard Chi Chi told Goku she loved him, but has Goku ever said it back after they got married?
** It's the exact reason why Dragonball Abridged makes Goku out to be an absolutely neglectful husband and father - he never seems to treat her as anything other than a housewife that brings him food. If I was going to be fair it could be because of the influence of his natural Saiyan traits as Vegeta treats Bulma like trash also.
* How come Chi-Chi never decided to ''leave'' Goku at one point since she gets annoyed with him always leaving for years. I mean, we all understand Goku is usually InnocentlyInsensitive, but some things he does causes viewers to question his marriage with Chi-Chi.
** Good point. What would stop her from taking Gohan and her dad with her as she left? Why would she put up with someone like Goku? That is a good question! I think, deep down, she doesn't mind the fact that she's married to a very powerful guy who can fly and shoot ki beams from his hands. Hell, she probably feels safe knowing that if, say, robbers try to come and hurt her and her baby, Goku could just fling them literally across a mountain. But yeah, you do raise and interesting question.
*** Go back and watch the original series again: Chi Chi is a StalkerWithACrush. Goku made ''one'' accidental proposal to her as a small boy (he thought marriage was a type of food) and she pursued him all the way to the World Martial Arts Tournament several years later planning to ''beat him senseless'' for supposedly standing her up. This is not a woman playing with a full deck.
** Have you met Chi-Chi. She’s the most loyal wife ever. She’ll never think of leaving Goku.
* How come nobody decided to call the police on Master Roshi instead of just punching him for groping the females...he's a creepy old hermit for crying out loud!
** It's likely he wouldn't submit and any jail not owned by one of the cast would hold Roshi precisely as long as he felt like getting free food and shelter. Its easy to forget since he can't blow up planets but Roshi is a genuine bad ass by any standards that don't involve Frieza.
* Where do Piccolo and Tenshinhan get off looking down their noses at Vegeta? Piccolo was going to become the next demon king and rule the Earth while making several explicit threats on Goku and his friends' lives, and Ten was training to be an assassin while making the same threats as Piccolo. Vegeta may have been a sadistic barbarian, but were they really that much better? Hell, what about Yamcha who was a desert bandit and probably robbed people leaving them to die? Kuririn is pretty much the only one without blood on his hands, considering he was, at worst, an underhanded jerk who quickly got chummy with Goku.
