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*** The only reason for the U.S. to hoard the desert rose would be profit; they could spare themselves all the trouble of guarding it if they just grew some of it, then shipped a few thousand seeds all over the world so everyone could grow it. Granted, profit is a very strong motivator even in the face of world war 3, but why not give it to L-Corp or UNICEF or have Mary buy an uninhabited Mediterranean island or somesuch (maybe in secret if they don't trust the government not to try to seize all of it), them go about growing and distributing it? This should have at least been discussed in the show.
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*** America's military might would not prevent foreign agents sneaking in to try and get samples, or even a hostile invasion force made up of several unfriendly nations. Not when something like the Desert Rose is at stake. As for the growing at a massive scale: aside from there physically not being enough space to do that (for example, any crops next to public roads is out of the question), you'd also have to create security to protect all that space. Also, the Desert Rose, so far as we know, only grows in a Mediterranean climate, meaning it might not grow in the US at all at scale.
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*** I concede part of your first point that the potential wars would be very destructive, but the Desert Rose would be "discovered" in America, which has the strongest military on Earth, plus the most powerful superheroes. And why couldn't it be grown on the same scale we grow corn, wheat and soybeans in the real world?
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** This question seems like it's vastly underestimating the death toll that would arise from wars aimed at controlling access to what is essentially a magical artifact. Safiyah is completely right about wanting to keep it a secret. And that's not even getting into whether the Desert Rose could be processed on a nation scale to begin with.
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[[folder: Why not copy the desert rose?]]
* So this series tried to justify how ReedRichardsIsUseless by showing that the Desert Rose's curative properties can't be extracted from the blood of people who've had it (or at least people who've gotten a cure made from a dosed person's blood) but why, when the Bat Family discovered Ryan's plant was capable of curing all known diseases and resurrecting the recently deceased, did they never suggest any method of getting it mass produced to save infinite lives? Safiyah believes that the whole world will fight over the rose if they knew about it, but the Bat Family probably doesn't and even if they did, those deaths in war would be stub-toes compared to how many die of disease every year. When it comes time to trade the flower for Alice, all they care about is the plant's sentimental value to Ryan.
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*** "Don't bring anyone else, ''or'' else" is a pretty standard ultimatum for these sorts of things. Could be easy as that.
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*** It was dark and chaotic. Who would've noticed?


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*** The absurdity is exactly what was mentioned: expecting a middle-schooler to have the presence of mind to deliberately get herself kidnapped to ''possibly'' get taken to where her friend is being held, and then escape after ''fighting off an adult''... that sounds ridiculous, especially when the working assumption is that Ryan just ran away.
*** As for the slingshot, it ''did'' work, more than just a simple toy would. But it also wasn't as effective as Angelique expected, hence her using something else, and she didn't exactly have time to try for the knife or spray and just grabbed the nearest heavyish thing.

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** More generally, Kate, while not a wholly selfish person at first, came back to Gotham and put on the suit to protect her family; Alice being a family member who's apparent death traumatized Kate, meant that protecting her was of course going to take priority over the lives of strangers (or even Kate's other family, who she has a rocky relationship with). [[CharacterDevelopment It takes a few episodes for her to accept the responsibility of being the new Batman, which means taking down threats like Alice regardless of personal feelings.]]

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** More generally, Kate, while not a wholly selfish person at first, came back to Gotham and put on the suit to protect her family; Alice being a family member who's apparent death traumatized Kate, meant that protecting her was of course going to take priority over the lives of strangers (or even Kate's other family, who she has a rocky relationship with). [[CharacterDevelopment It takes a few episodes for her to accept the responsibility of being the new Batman, which means taking down threats like Alice regardless of personal feelings.]]



** On a slightly more cynical note (in-universe and out), the director of the episode probably just didn't realize the [[FridgeLogic problem with having Parker claim she would have stopped a train that was mere feet from crashing,]] since Kate doesn't call her out on it. Plus, if how Kate treats Alice and Luke is anything to go by, she's definitely the kind of superhero who plays by her own rules, so it's not out of character for her to let will let a dangerous criminal go (and even stop others from capturing them) if she sympathizes with them.

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** On a slightly more cynical note (in-universe and out), the director of the episode probably just didn't realize the [[FridgeLogic problem with having Parker claim she would have stopped a train that was mere feet from crashing,]] since Kate doesn't call her out on it. Plus, if how Kate treats Alice and Luke is anything to go by, she's definitely the kind of superhero who plays by her own rules, so it's not out of character for her to let will let a dangerous criminal go (and even stop others from capturing them) if she sympathizes with them.


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*** But then didn't she very obviously help Batwoman escape?


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*** Even if Kane is the type of man to get his hands dirty against the pragmatic need to keep him safe (and rush ahead of his bodyguards), why did he venture to the tip alone?


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*** In Gotham, absurd is a very high bar for a story about crime to pass. What was even that absurd about it? A kid deliberately gets kidnapped to find her foster sister, then escapes with her. Regardless of how committed the police were to finding her, presumably its recorded that Ryan was missing for weeks (and if not, their foster siblings could testify). And the slingshot barely inconvenienced the woman; they had to trip her and hit her with the jar to knock her out. Could she not get a knife or, unwilling to kill someone, something to spray in her eye?

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Caivu brought up an excellent point and I'm removing this both to keep with guidelines, and because others have made better points.


* When Ryan goes to a hospital to get her Kryptonite infection checked, the doctor informs her and Angelique that Ryan's insurance doesn't cover blood work. I'm sorry... what? The dialog indicates that Ryan DOES have some kind of health insurance, but what insurance doesn't cover something as simple as blood work? I myself have Medicaid and that does, indeed, cover blood work, so if the cheap free option covers it, why wouldn't the higher end paid ones? Moreover, most hospitals have big giant signs in the emergency room that state, essentially, that hospitals have a duty to provide care, even if the person cannot pay or doesn't have insurance at all. I'm pretty sure it's even against the law in some states to refuse medical aid for monetary reasons. Is this supposed to be a commentary on how racists hospitals are, or is it simply a case where the writers have as much grasp on hospital rules as the ''Supergirl'' writers do with the American government?

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* When Ryan goes to a hospital to get her Kryptonite infection checked, the doctor informs her and Angelique that Ryan's insurance doesn't cover blood work. I'm sorry... what? The dialog indicates that Ryan DOES have some kind of health insurance, but what insurance doesn't cover something as simple as blood work? I myself have Medicaid and that does, indeed, cover blood work, so if the cheap free option covers it, why wouldn't the higher end higher-end paid ones? Moreover, most hospitals have big giant signs in the emergency room that state, essentially, that hospitals have a duty to provide care, even if the person cannot pay or doesn't have insurance at all. I'm pretty sure it's even against the law in some states to refuse medical aid for monetary reasons. Is this supposed to be a commentary on how racists hospitals are, or is it simply a case where the writers have as much grasp on hospital rules as the ''Supergirl'' writers do with the American government?



** In other words, the writers think that everything is inherently racist and don't know much about the real world.
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**** Kate didn't need to check right that second. Give her the momentary benefit of the doubt, check on things, keep tabs on her in the meantime.
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Unnecessary crack at me. I'd delete the rest of that line again if it wouldn't cause an Edit War, if for nothing else because it's a rude jab at the writers.


** In other words, the writers think that everything is inherently racist and don't know much about the real world. (Don't delete other's opinions Caivu.)

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** In other words, the writers think that everything is inherently racist and don't know much about the real world. (Don't delete other's opinions Caivu.)

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** No...? Mary was there under the pretense of buying Batwoman's suit at the auction, so that Hamilton Dynamics could examine its technology.



[[folder: Commander Kane; Beat Cop]]

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[[folder: Commander Kane; Kane: Beat Cop]]



** There's nothing to indicate Jacob is pursuing Titan completely alone, it's just that his (and Kate's) segment of the chase is the only one shown.



* So let's say, for the sake of argument, [[TooDumbToLive Ryan's foster sister was dumb enough]] to think that a child's slingshot would be enough of a weapon to defeat a full-grown kidnapper (or for all she knew, serial killer who killed her victims as soon as she drove them away). But why didn't she and Ryan report their kidnapper, whose face, car and adress they knew, after they escaped? I know foster kids probably don't trust authorities much, but what other options, moral or pragmatic, did they have to stop the lady from continuing to kidnap kids, or even taking revenge on them? Why isn't Ryan guilty that every child she kidnapped in those interim twenty years is partially her fault?

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* So let's say, for the sake of argument, [[TooDumbToLive Ryan's foster sister was dumb enough]] to think that a child's slingshot would be enough of a weapon to defeat a full-grown kidnapper (or for all she knew, serial killer who killed her victims as soon as she drove them away). But why didn't she and Ryan report their kidnapper, whose face, car and adress address they knew, after they escaped? I know foster kids probably don't trust authorities much, but what other options, moral or pragmatic, did they have to stop the lady from continuing to kidnap kids, or even taking revenge on them? Why isn't Ryan guilty that every child she kidnapped in those interim twenty years is partially her fault?fault?
** Since Angelique's slingshot did end up hurting the Candy Lady, that was apparently a solid plan even if it didn't completely pan out. Also, what's to say they ''didn't'' report what happened? Ryan was assumed to be a runaway, and, while true, Angelique's story of deliberately getting captured a kidnapper to rescue Ryan from said kidnapper, and being successful all in the space of a few hours, would sound absurd.
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[[folder: Candy Lady's backstory]]
* So let's say, for the sake of argument, [[TooDumbToLive Ryan's foster sister was dumb enough]] to think that a child's slingshot would be enough of a weapon to defeat a full-grown kidnapper (or for all she knew, serial killer who killed her victims as soon as she drove them away). But why didn't she and Ryan report their kidnapper, whose face, car and adress they knew, after they escaped? I know foster kids probably don't trust authorities much, but what other options, moral or pragmatic, did they have to stop the lady from continuing to kidnap kids, or even taking revenge on them? Why isn't Ryan guilty that every child she kidnapped in those interim twenty years is partially her fault?
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[[folder: Commander Kane; Beat Cop]]
* I know MainCharactersDoEverything, but would it really be too much trouble to not show Commander Kane taking on street level calls, like the machete guy, alone? In one episode, he follows up on a tip about Kate without any bodyguards or backup, predictably leading to his capture and near death. Does he think his mid-level experience makes him bulletproof, or that Gotham's De-facto police chief doesn't have many enemies?
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[[folder: Kate Kane's face?]]
* So, Kate is revived and heading out, but the characters seem to have forgotten that Kate's face is technically artificial, attached thanks to Alice in order to hide all the horrible scarring and burned flesh Kate got when her plane crashed. So... who is going to maintain Kate's face? It's still human skin, which will need treatment so it doesn't rot, and Alice even says that she will need regular maintenance in case the seams get loose. There's also just the general feeling of wearing a second layer of skin on your face at all times. How is Kate going to handle maintenance on her face? Moreover, what happened to all her scars and burning below her neck?
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* Let's assume that this version of Arkham is poorly run enough that Alice and Mouse can do all the stuff they do just by having Mouse imitate [[MadScientist Dr. Butler.]] [[FridgeLogic (Where does the other staff think Mouse is? Does Dr. Butler have an outside life and passwords on his computers?)]] [[FridgeHorror And that neither Kate nor the Crows have any interest in fixing this place that would be shut down in a heartbeat if anyone in authority new about its blatant human rights violations.]] I'm no morgue worker, but wouldn't the inevitable autopsy that will be performed on the poor soul Alice and Mouse gave Tommy Elliot's face, then hanged, reveal that he's not Tommy Elloit, and thereby the real Tommy Elliot is now at large and in league with both Alice and Mouse?

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* Let's assume that this version of Arkham is poorly run enough that Alice and Mouse can do all the stuff they do just by having Mouse imitate [[MadScientist Dr. Butler.]] [[FridgeLogic (Where does the other staff think Mouse is? Does Dr. Butler have an outside life and passwords on his computers?)]] [[FridgeHorror And that neither Kate nor the Crows have any interest in fixing this place that would be shut down in a heartbeat if anyone in authority new about its blatant human rights violations.]] I'm no morgue worker, but wouldn't the inevitable autopsy that will be performed on the poor soul Alice and Mouse gave Tommy Elliot's face, then hanged, reveal that he's not Tommy Elloit, Elliot, and thereby the real Tommy Elliot is now at large and in league with both Alice and Mouse?



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[[folder: Emergency Generators?]]
* Does the Batcave have its own emergency generators? In other continuities, it does, but when Black Mask cuts off all the power in Gotham, the Batcave is rendered powerless as well. We see Luke use a wired construction lamp later on, which does imply generators, but does that mean Bruce didn't install emergency lighting in the Batcave? Also, what did Luke use to power his Batwing suit? Did it seriously just keep a full charge for years?
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[[folder: Hush's Escape]]
* Let's assume that this version of Arkham is poorly run enough that Alice and Mouse can do all the stuff they do just by having Mouse imitate [[MadScientist Dr. Butler.]] [[FridgeLogic (Where does the other staff think Mouse is? Does Dr. Butler have an outside life and passwords on his computers?)]] [[FridgeHorror And that neither Kate nor the Crows have any interest in fixing this place that would be shut down in a heartbeat if anyone in authority new about its blatant human rights violations.]] I'm no morgue worker, but wouldn't the inevitable autopsy that will be performed on the poor soul Alice and Mouse gave Tommy Elliot's face, then hanged, reveal that he's not Tommy Elloit, and thereby the real Tommy Elliot is now at large and in league with both Alice and Mouse?
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[[folder: Mary's infiltration]]
* I know characters and the general population not being able to figure out the hero's identity against all logic is [[WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief something we kind of have to live with in this genre,]] but won't Mary's rescue of Kate in episode 18 lead literally every crime boss in Gotham with a grudge against Batwoman right back to her? She went into a club it was established had security cameras without any disguise, and got to the mobster by talking to his cousin as Mary. Kate and Luke should have been more protective of Mary after that mission, not less.
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** I'm not sure Ryan has much room to complain here anyway. Didn't she pull away a nurse who was rushing to a coding patient, which translates to the patient is freaking dying, and then lie to the doctor that her injury was a bug bite? She can't complain about not getting proper treatment when she's acting like an idiot.
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** In other words, the writers think that everything is inherently racist and don't know much about the real world. (Don't delete other's opinions Caivu.)
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Yeah, no. Sounds like someone needs to read up on racism and other forms of discrimination in the medical field.


** In other words, the writers think that everything is inherently racist and don't know much about the real world.
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** In other words, the writers think that everything is inherently racist and don't know much about the real world.
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*** There's no indication she checked Parker's story in the minutes at most that she had. Not even sure how she would have, since if there was any evidence of what Parker said, it would be in obscure places and forms that it would take even Luke quite some time to find.


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** On a slightly more cynical note (in-universe and out), the director of the episode probably just didn't realize the [[FridgeLogic problem with having Parker claim she would have stopped a train that was mere feet from crashing,]] since Kate doesn't call her out on it. Plus, if how Kate treats Alice and Luke is anything to go by, she's definitely the kind of superhero who plays by her own rules, so it's not out of character for her to let will let a dangerous criminal go (and even stop others from capturing them) if she sympathizes with them.
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** It's elective if the doctor doesn't specifically order it but the patient still wants it done. It doesn't matter if it's a test that ''should'' be done. Again, probably racism on the part of the doctor.
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** Given that Ryan is suffering from an infection, how in the world could it be considered elective? I had a kidney stone a few weeks ago and the nurses in the ER still took a vial of blood for testing, and Ryan's wound was much more serious. I also have to wonder where Ryan is in the ER process. Did she arrive via ambulance? If so, an official should be standing around her, whether someone from the ambulance or a nurse or a police officer. If she checked in normally, Angelique would definitely have not been allowed in the back area.
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** It's possible the test wouldn't have been covered if it was elective. That would apparently be the case here since the doctor doesn't seem to think ordering them is necessary, an attitude that could be at least partially racist.

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** It's possible the test wouldn't have been covered if it was elective. That would apparently be the case here since the doctor doesn't seem to think ordering them it is necessary, an attitude that could be at least partially racist.
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** It's possible the test wouldn't have been covered if it was elective. That would apparently be the case here since the doctor doesn't seem to think ordering them is necessary, an attitude that could be at least partially racist.
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* When Ryan goes to a hospital to get her Kryptonite infection checked, the doctor informs her and Angelica that Ryan's insurance doesn't cover blood work. I'm sorry... what? The dialog indicates that Ryan DOES have some kind of health insurance, but what insurance doesn't cover something as simple as blood work? I myself have Medicaid and that does, indeed, cover blood work, so if the cheap free option covers it, why wouldn't the higher end paid ones? Moreover, most hospitals have big giant signs in the emergency room that state, essentially, that hospitals have a duty to provide care, even if the person cannot pay or doesn't have insurance at all. I'm pretty sure it's even against the law in some states to refuse medical aid for monetary reasons. Is this supposed to be a commentary on how racists hospitals are, or is it simply a case where the writers have as much grasp on hospital rules as the ''Supergirl'' writers do with the American government?

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* When Ryan goes to a hospital to get her Kryptonite infection checked, the doctor informs her and Angelica Angelique that Ryan's insurance doesn't cover blood work. I'm sorry... what? The dialog indicates that Ryan DOES have some kind of health insurance, but what insurance doesn't cover something as simple as blood work? I myself have Medicaid and that does, indeed, cover blood work, so if the cheap free option covers it, why wouldn't the higher end paid ones? Moreover, most hospitals have big giant signs in the emergency room that state, essentially, that hospitals have a duty to provide care, even if the person cannot pay or doesn't have insurance at all. I'm pretty sure it's even against the law in some states to refuse medical aid for monetary reasons. Is this supposed to be a commentary on how racists hospitals are, or is it simply a case where the writers have as much grasp on hospital rules as the ''Supergirl'' writers do with the American government?
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[[/folder]]

[[folder: What insurance company does Ryan have?]]
* When Ryan goes to a hospital to get her Kryptonite infection checked, the doctor informs her and Angelica that Ryan's insurance doesn't cover blood work. I'm sorry... what? The dialog indicates that Ryan DOES have some kind of health insurance, but what insurance doesn't cover something as simple as blood work? I myself have Medicaid and that does, indeed, cover blood work, so if the cheap free option covers it, why wouldn't the higher end paid ones? Moreover, most hospitals have big giant signs in the emergency room that state, essentially, that hospitals have a duty to provide care, even if the person cannot pay or doesn't have insurance at all. I'm pretty sure it's even against the law in some states to refuse medical aid for monetary reasons. Is this supposed to be a commentary on how racists hospitals are, or is it simply a case where the writers have as much grasp on hospital rules as the ''Supergirl'' writers do with the American government?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
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** More generally, Kate, while not a wholly selfish person at first, came back to Gotham and put on the suit to protect her family; Alice being a family member who's apparent death traumatized her, protecting her was of course going to take priority over the lives of strangers (or even her other family, who she has a rocky relationship with). [[CharacterDevelopment It takes a few episodes for her to accept the responsibility of being the new Batman, which means taking down threats like Alice regardless of personal feelings.]]

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** More generally, Kate, while not a wholly selfish person at first, came back to Gotham and put on the suit to protect her family; Alice being a family member who's apparent death traumatized her, Kate, meant that protecting her was of course going to take priority over the lives of strangers (or even her Kate's other family, who she has a rocky relationship with). [[CharacterDevelopment It takes a few episodes for her to accept the responsibility of being the new Batman, which means taking down threats like Alice regardless of personal feelings.]]
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** More generally, Kate, while not a wholly selfish person at first, came back to Gotham and put on the suit to protect her family; Alice being a family member who's apparent death traumatized her, protecting her was of course going to take priority over the lives of strangers (or even her other family, who she has a rocky relationship with). [[CharacterDevelopment it takes a few episodes for her to accept the responsibility of being the new Batman, which means taking down threats like Alice regardless of personal feelings.]]

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** More generally, Kate, while not a wholly selfish person at first, came back to Gotham and put on the suit to protect her family; Alice being a family member who's apparent death traumatized her, protecting her was of course going to take priority over the lives of strangers (or even her other family, who she has a rocky relationship with). [[CharacterDevelopment it It takes a few episodes for her to accept the responsibility of being the new Batman, which means taking down threats like Alice regardless of personal feelings.]]

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