Headscratchers / Batwoman (2019)

New entries on the bottom.

Alice and corpses

• Why does Kate think that Alice tampering with corpses is bad enough to warrant her capture after she's already killed multiple people in cold blood, among other things? Even granted that she may be reluctant to go all out against Alice because of who she is, surely Kate would understand that her sister is incredibly unstable and dangerous, posing a detriment to her, the general public, and Alice herself so long as she's left to her own devices, right?
  • It's not a matter of corpse mutilation being worse than murder. Kate is suspicious because, as she says, such a crime isn't Alice's style, so something's up.
  • Why did she need to wait for Alice to change her angle to respond with, "now I want to capture this person who's already committed multiple crimes"? This implies that if Alice simply kept breaking the law like she always has, Kate wouldn't want to catch her.
  • Part of what Kate wants to do is restore Beth, whom Kate is convinced is still inside Alice's head somewhere. To do that, the process has to be willing on Alice's part, or so Kate believes, at least. Thus, capturing Alice won't help with that. However, Kate's ultimatum to her in episode 3 means that that all goes out the window if Alice keeps up her crimes. The mutilations happened to be the first time Alice broke that "bond," on top of being unusual for her.

Calibration

• How do you "calibrate" what is essentially a bat-shaped throwing star, i.e. a solid piece of metal? Did they maybe mean it needed to be resized and recut to accommodate Kate's throw instead of Bruce's?
  • This version of the batarang definitely seems to be programmed in some way to return to the thrower. The calibrations probably had to do with ensuring it came back at the right angle for someone with Kate's arm length to be able to catch it.
  • They don't necessarily have to be "smart weapons" for a calibration adjustment to be necessary: the exact angles of the wings' configuration and edges could impact how much lift a batarang acquires as it travels. Bruce probably configured them to return at or near the highest point of his own arms' reach, to ensure he couldn't hit himself or another person he might be hauling in a fireman's carry; Kate simply can't reach that high if she looses one from her optimum throwing position.
  • But wasn't the problem with "accuracy" and not with "returning"?
  • The problem was the batarangs not accurately returning "home".

Sophie missing

• In Episode 6, after kidnapping Sophie, Kate says that the Crows don't know she's missing. She went into a warehouse with one other person, a load of guns went off and they only found the one other person, dead. Why wouldn't they know Sophie has gone missing when she... went missing.
  • Sophie wasn't part of the original team who went to the warehouse; when they head out, she's still at her desk wearing office attire, not tactical gear. It seems she went on her own without their knowledge.
    • So, the Crows then either failed to surround the warehouse, or just didn't see her go in. Given how bad they seem to be at their job, either is a distinct possibility.
    • Or she just got there before they did.

Mary's clinic's finances

• How does Mary afford running a clinic on her own?
  • Many of her supplies are stolen, and she's wealthy otherwise.
  • She's computer-savvy and probably orders stuff that she charges to a pseudonymous credit card. If she runs low on funds, she rattles on and on to her mother about the new dress/shoes/car she desperately needs until Catherine coughs up just to get some peace. Plus, her mother secretly knows what she's doing and approves: there may be occasional anonymous "donations" to the clinic.
  • Another possible source is Bruce. Secretly backing an off-the-books clinic would be in character for him.

Alice killing

• Why is no one complaining about how stupid, unsafe, and morally incomprehensible it is to let Beth run around attacking and killing civilians and her friends and family without catching or stopping her or at least set up some minimum safety measures. Kate actively and knowingly lets her kill people! Why is she pretending to protect anyone?
  • Kate's actions toward Alice, after finding out who she is, hinge around A) restoring Beth from wherever she is inside Alice's head, and B) keeping Alice safe so that can happen. Kate believes this process has to be voluntary, so capturing Alice herself won't help with that. And she has a very good reason to believe that Alice will be killed if she's taken into custody, since it's already been attempted. So she's kinda stuck; she doesn't want Alice to kill, but she also wants Beth back. That's what her ultimatum to Alice was about at the end of episode 3, and Alice did indeed keep to it for a while. And since Kate knows Alice broke it in episode 8, that's why she rescinds that view.
  • She knew before episode 8. And her treatment of Beth does not come off as fear for her life, as much as fear for her comfort. And Beth's comfort should not be a priority over the lives of innocents. And when ever she knows about the death of said innocents she does not bat a lid (sorry for the pun).
  • However it appears, the point is that Alice was almost killed while in custody, so it stands to reason that could happen again, and before episode 8, Kate doesn't want Alice dead.
  • After realizing that Kate is trying to redeem her, Alice does her best to keep the killing to a minimum and always has an excuse for the killings she does do. Not because she's actually willing to be redeemed, but because she knows she can stay safe longer if she gives Kate reasons to believe she can be saved. In episode 8 (and earlier, to a lesser extent), several people point out that Alice's crimes are at least partially Kate's fault for not fighting hard enough to bring her in.
  • More generally, Kate, while not a wholly selfish person at first, came back to Gotham and put on the suit to protect her family; Alice being a family member who's apparent death traumatized Kate, protecting her was of course going to take priority over the lives of strangers (or even Kate's other family, who she has a rocky relationship with). It takes a few episodes for her to accept the responsibility of being the new Batman, which means taking down threats like Alice regardless of personal feelings.

Thomas and the necklace

• There is no mention of Thomas Wayne in Episode 4. The people in the museum were only interested in Martha and her pearl necklace. Why not honor them both? Isn't that a bit insulting since both parents did good things for the community and died in a tragedy? Wouldn't Bruce feel offended by this?
  • The event was specifically about celebrating "powerful women throughout history". Roxana, the curator, says that multiple times.

Arrowverse timeline

• Where exactly does Batwoman fit into the timeline of Arrowverse as a whole? When she appears in "Elseworlds," she already has the red wig and there is an implication she's been active for some time already. But when the series begins, she doesn't get the wig until episode 3, and there is no reference to any of the evens of "Elseworlds," aside from her recognizing Kara during the first part of "Crisis On Infinite Earths," despite "Elseworlds" having canonically taken place a year prior.
  • The Arkham breakout from Elseworlds is referenced in episode 5, happening two weeks prior.
    • But does that mean that post-episode 5 takes place much later? And that Kate has been fighting Alice for a year or so?
    • It's likely that when characters say Batman has been missing for 3 and then later 4 years, they're not being exact. Rounding up or down, basically.

Why can't Beth and Alice both exist?

• Never before, even after COIE (Supergirl's multitude of Brainiac 5s comes to mind), have two of the same person being in one universe been something reality can't allow that will result in the deaths of both.
  • Maybe it only affects humans.
  • It could be different for the Brainiac 5s because they're all twelfth-level intellects, and thus their brains would be able to handle the stress. Or maybe the events of that Supergirl episode took place in a shorter time period than the Batwoman episodes with Beth.
  • So, their brains can somehow handle them disintegrating on a molecular level?( Of course this was based on Mary's completely unqualified opinion, based on her momentary evaluation with a standard light microscope).
  • It's possible they're just too alike, living basically the exact same life up until the crash as opposed to the various Wells on the Flash who have radically different origins and lives, or people like Earth 90 Barry who is both 30 some years older and entirely different looking person than the Earth-1 version.
  • What about all the other doubles in that bar in Supergirl? Not all of them were probably aliens.
    • Beth was back for at least a day before any symptoms began, so there's definitely a delay. The bar doubles may not have been around that long yet.
• It wasn’t a problem for when Team Flash went to Earth-2 and met their counterparts.
  • That was an completely different situation https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/TheFlash2014S2E13WelcomeToEarthTwo since it was years before The Crisis.

Ethan Campbell

While it's possible the answers will be revealed in a later episode, the episode "Take Your Choice" reveals that Dr. Ethan Campbell is actually a barely-aged Dr. August Cartwright wearing a lifelike mask, much like the kind he used to try and make for his son. While it's still ambiguous whether or not Dr. Ethan Campbell was a real person who Cartwright murdered and stole his identity from or a completely fictional persona altogether (I'm personally leaning towards the latter theory for now), regardless of the case, at least two major questions arise:

• It was previously established that Dr. Cartwright himself did not have the dexterity and craftsmanship to create a fully convincing lifelike mask, hence why he turned to Beth to do it, and she should be the only one with this capability. Presumably, the mask of Dr. Campbell was one he made himself, though, so how did he suddenly become skilled enough to create these masks when he couldn't before?
  • He's probably come up with better tools for the job in the past 15 years. Surgery itself has advanced enormously in that time, as have preservation techniques like plastination.
• How can he mimic the voice of Dr. Campbell, when only his son is established to be a Voice Changeling, not him?
  • Given the nature of Cartwright's cruelty, he may have been faking his inability to make masks for any number of reasons. Or he just developed his dexterity in the intervening 15 years. As for the voice impersonation, that could easily be a genetic trait.
    • If Dr Campbell isn't a real person, Dr Cartwright may have chosen a voice that was sufficiently different to his own but still one he could manage. Changing one's own voice is something lots of people can do to an extent, especially if they're not trying to replicate an actual person.

Parker's Punishment

• Let's not sugarcoat things - Parker's stunt with the train is a blatant act of domestic terrorism, and if Batwoman hadn't intervened it would've severely harmed or killed who knows how many people. This is the sort of thing that usually gets people either committed or sent to prison for quite a long time, but all she gets for it is community service and nobody seems to think she needs any sort of intervention after endangering the lives of so many people? And Kate doesn't see anything wrong with this?
  • First, Parker said herself that she could have stopped the train on her own, and she doesn't seem to have actually wanted to hurt herself or others, just put herself in a dangerous situation to garner sympathy from her parents. So if Batwoman hadn't intervened, the result would have been the same. Second, Kate does think it's wrong, but is being merciful because she can empathize with why Parker felt so desperate. Don't forget that Parker still had to return all the money she extorted and that Kate directly told her that if she didn't take the offer, she'd be going to juvie.
  • Except that there was no time to stop the train if Batwoman didn't get involved. Breaking the laws of physics to stop a train that would have smashed clear through a building that Parker couldn't have stopped in time even if she wanted to stop. Rewatch the scene, there is no way she would have been able to stop in time.
    • That just means Parker misjudged how long it would take to stop the train. It doesn't mean her intent wasn't true.
    • Pretty sure nearly killing a train full of innocent people is a freaking crime regardless of her supposed intent. Parker should've been locked up.
    • That's ignoring that Kate was being merciful to Parker. If Parker hadn't complied, she would've turned her in.
    • Who or what gave her the right to assign punishments to people. She's not a member of law enforcement.
    • Uh, are you forgetting that she's a vigilante? That's kinda the entire point.
    • The whole point of the Bat-family vigilantes was that they just went after the criminals before turning them over to the proper authorities. They are not judge or jury, they go after the criminals.
    • That's a distinction without a difference. Vigilantism is inherently extrajudicial, meaning every single member of the Batfamily is equally guilty of what you're only blaming Batwoman for. Why single her out? Why complain about a standard feature of the genre in the first place?
    • The Batfamily doesn't dish out the punishments, they just catch the criminals and give them to the proper authorities. Parker would have killed hundreds of innocent people, but Kate lets her off with community service and doesn't tell anyone about the culprit.
    • Uh... they very much do dish out the punishments, be it in the form of beatdowns, torture, confinement, forcing the return of stolen property, death in some cases, etc. Every single one of them has done at least one of those, so again, why are you only getting on Batwoman's case about it? And why in only this instance, when even such a bad-faith complaint is equally applicable to every villain she's faced so far? Also, the reason Kate is lenient with Parker is that she's being merciful. That's supposed to be a bad thing in a superhero?
    • Yes, "merciful," the woman who murdered someone she was interrogating in a blind rage. Beside the point, the vigilantes beat people up, but they still send them to the authorities to go through due process, this never happened here. Parker gets to walk away and suffers no real consequences for her actions. Community service is not a real punishment for the crime she was planning to commit.
    • Kate killing Cartwright is completely irrelevant to this situation and happened afterward anyway. Parker does suffer consequences; you're neglecting both that she also had to return any extortion money and that if she had refused Kate's offer, Kate would've turned her in. Parker did not get to just "walk away" here, and to say she did is to ignore what actually happened. As for the Batfamily always turning criminals in: simply not true. How many of them has Jason killed? How many times have any of them taken a criminal captive, or just left them unconscious on the ground? Even if it were true, they're also not legally sanctioned for that, because vigilantism is illegal. So the original complaint of yours has zero basis at all, because it applies to all of the Batfamily and you're pretending it doesn't.
    • What happens if someone gives Kate a fake sob story? Would she give that person a slap on the wrist? You can't let people go because you feel sorry for them, or find them relatable. You think Black Lightning would let a villain go because he was a victim of racism?
    • Do you think she wouldn't, y'know... check that they're telling the truth first, assuming she would even care in the first place? And again, she didn't let Parker go. Parker did not benefit from her crimes, and there's no scenario where she gets to just walk away with no punishment.
    • There's no indication she checked Parker's story in the minutes at most that she had. Not even sure how she would have, since if there was any evidence of what Parker said, it would be in obscure places and forms that it would take even Luke quite some time to find.
    • Kate didn't need to check right that second. Give her the momentary benefit of the doubt, check on things, keep tabs on her in the meantime.
    • Also, Kate's killing of Cartwright had absolutely nothing to do with her being Batwoman. It had to do with her being a grief-stricken, horrified, rage-blinded young woman whom Cartwright deliberately provoked into going too far. That wasn't the act of an overly-ruthless vigilante jumping off the slippery slope, it was the act of a fallible human being who cracked under extreme psychological manipulation.
    • And Parker didn't just have a sob story, she risked her life to protect Batwoman's secret identity.
  • On a slightly more cynical note (in-universe and out), the director of the episode probably just didn't realize the problem with having Parker claim she would have stopped a train that was mere feet from crashing, since Kate doesn't call her out on it. Plus, if how Kate treats Alice is anything to go by, she's definitely the kind of superhero who plays by her own rules, so it's not out of character for her to let a dangerous criminal go (and even stop others from capturing them) if she sympathizes with them.

Kate Kane Crime Scene

• I don't remember if it was explained in the episode, but why was Kate let onto an active crime scene while in her civilian persona? She has no credentials as an investigator and she is a real estate agent as a civilian, so why was she allowed to go searching the runaway train without gloves and taking evidence?
  • She and Luke were posing as Transit Authority officials.
  • You still need badges or identification for that and I don't remember them showing any. Still doesn't explain why they were allowed to just leave with evidence after leaving their own fingerprints everywhere.
    • Luke hands her a badge at the very start of that scene. Also, do you think the police are going to dust an entire subway car for prints? Especially when they don't suspect foul play at the time?

Batwoman outing herself to the public

• I get the message the show is trying to make, but as a vigilante, isn't it better for her sexual orientation to remain ambiguous? By giving out that little detail about herself, she is making it easy for villains to learn her true identity.
  • A city the size of Gotham would have thousands of lesbians, if not tens of thousands. At least. Not so easy.
  • But how many lesbians come from rich families or had the money to pay for the equipment in Gotham and arrived in the city right around the time Batwoman appeared? Kate Kane is the direct cousin to the missing billionaire Bruce Wayne, appears to have taken over his company somehow, and is ex-military who was kicked out for being a lesbian.
    • Why would anyone necessarily think that Batman or Batwoman are rich? The public isn't that knowledgeable about the equipment they use, so the gear could be stolen for all they know. Or even homemade. Kate's arrival in Gotham also doesn't seem to have been major news at all, and it doesn't seem that she's a well-known figure in the Arrowverse anyway; even Oliver, someone who's actually in her same social class, had no idea who she was in Elseworlds.
    • This is a world where scumbag criminals can bodge together freeze-rays and fear-inducing gases. If they can do it without being billionaires, Batwoman can whip up some gear without being one also. Plus, the only vehicle she's been reported to operate is a motorcycle, which would likely make people assume she's significantly less wealthy than her predecessor, who rode around in customized Bat-vehicles of all sorts.
    • The Arkham series included the Riddler speculating that Batman financed himself by stealing from the criminals he caught; obviously that's a warped perspective on his nemesis, but that does provide at least one alternative explanation for how the Bats finance their operations that doesn't include them being rich themselves.
    • That version of the Riddler refused to believe Batman unmasked on live tv is actually Bruce Wayne. We shouldn't use him for any kind of reference.

Batwoman killing Cartwright

• Killing Cartwright drives her into a deep depression, but not when she accidentally killed an old version of her cousin Bruce, the man she looked up to? You would think watching your cousin go insane and accidentally killing him would be devastating for her.
  • Three key points of difference: 1. She accidentally killed Bruce; Cartwright was a result of losing her cool, and intentional at least in the moment. 2. That Bruce was a different universe's Bruce, not "hers". 3. She was trying to defend herself and Kara when she killed Bruce-99, whereas there was no such mitigation in Cartwright's murder.

Where is Gordon?

• Why hasn’t the show even acknowledged his existence?
  • Word of God says he's retired.

Backstory Retcon?

• So, Ryan's backstory was the Crow's framed her at the beginning, but we later see she had drugs on her when she had been arrested. Was this a retcon or had Ryan been lying?
  • If it was actually stated that they framed her, this could still work because even though the Crows didn't plant drugs on her, they instigated hostilities by catcalling her, giving them an excuse to search her when she responded. It's somewhat of a stretch, but since Ryan's side of that story has been the only one given, it could very well have come off to her that way.

Kryptonite poisoning + Ryan = Superman Stays Out Of Gotham

• Given the Kryptonite poisoning plot, why don't they call the two, you know, Kryptonians to help?
  • Do Luke or Mary or Ryan actually know how to contact any of them? Kara would be the easiest, but they'd still need to know her number or email address.
  • Even if they were able to get in contact with them, Superman and Supergirl have their own problems to deal with—the former being a father to two troubled teenaged boys while also dealing with the everyday troubles of being Superman, a corrupt businessman doing shady stuff in his hometown, and a stranger out to kill him, while the latter has to deal with Lex Luthor being...well, Lex Luthor. Even if they knew about what was going on with Ryan, they have their hands full with much bigger problems, and can't just swing by to help.
  • Unlike Green Arrow, Flash or Supergirl's teams, the Bat-Team wasn't really involved with the larger superhero community. Kate is the only one who actually interacted with the other heroes, and the only one she really knows among them is Kara. Yes, it is a little strange that Luke wouldn't have figured out that Kara's friend whom she needed to ask about the kryptonite is Supergirl (given that Kate went to National City), but even so, Luke doesn't know how to get in touch with Supergirl.

Why is she still a criminal?

• Why does Mary continue doing illegal things in her clinic when she could easily make everything official? She doesn't even have to run it herself, she's a multi-billionaire! She can hire staff until she gets out of medical school.
  • An official clinic would require Mary to report drug users and other non-violent criminals to the authorities, which Mary doesn't want to do.
  • As of Initiate Self-Destruct, Mary has made her clinic legit. She's found a way around having to report drug users and non-violent criminals by simply having a malfunctioning fax machine!
  • Hospitals are not required to report drug users. In fact, doing so would probably be a HIPAA violation.
  • What? Reporting illegal drug use, while not absolutely required, also doesn't violate HIPAA.

What insurance company does Ryan have?

• When Ryan goes to a hospital to get her Kryptonite infection checked, the doctor informs her and Angelique that Ryan's insurance doesn't cover blood work. I'm sorry... what? The dialog indicates that Ryan DOES have some kind of health insurance, but what insurance doesn't cover something as simple as blood work? I myself have Medicaid and that does, indeed, cover blood work, so if the cheap free option covers it, why wouldn't the higher-end paid ones? Moreover, most hospitals have big giant signs in the emergency room that state, essentially, that hospitals have a duty to provide care, even if the person cannot pay or doesn't have insurance at all. I'm pretty sure it's even against the law in some states to refuse medical aid for monetary reasons. Is this supposed to be a commentary on how racists hospitals are, or is it simply a case where the writers have as much grasp on hospital rules as the Supergirl writers do with the American government?
  • It's possible the test wouldn't have been covered if it was elective. That would apparently be the case here since the doctor doesn't seem to think ordering it is necessary, an attitude that could be at least partially racist.
  • Given that Ryan is suffering from an infection, how in the world could it be considered elective? I had a kidney stone a few weeks ago and the nurses in the ER still took a vial of blood for testing, and Ryan's wound was much more serious. I also have to wonder where Ryan is in the ER process. Did she arrive via ambulance? If so, an official should be standing around her, whether someone from the ambulance or a nurse or a police officer. If she checked in normally, Angelique would definitely have not been allowed in the back area.
  • It's elective if the doctor doesn't specifically order it but the patient still wants it done. It doesn't matter if it's a test that should be done. Again, probably racism on the part of the doctor.
  • I'm not sure Ryan has much room to complain here anyway. Didn't she pull away a nurse who was rushing to a coding patient, which translates to the patient is freaking dying, and then lie to the doctor that her injury was a bug bite? She can't complain about not getting proper treatment when she's acting like an idiot.

Hush's Escape

• Let's assume that this version of Arkham is poorly run enough that Alice and Mouse can do all the stuff they do just by having Mouse imitate Dr. Butler. (Where does the other staff think Mouse is? Does Dr. Butler have an outside life and passwords on his computers?) And that neither Kate nor the Crows have any interest in fixing this place that would be shut down in a heartbeat if anyone in authority new about its blatant human rights violations. I'm no morgue worker, but wouldn't the inevitable autopsy that will be performed on the poor soul Alice and Mouse gave Tommy Elliot's face, then hanged, reveal that he's not Tommy Elliot, and thereby the real Tommy Elliot is now at large and in league with both Alice and Mouse?

Mary's infiltration

• I know characters and the general population not being able to figure out the hero's identity against all logic is something we kind of have to live with in this genre, but won't Mary's rescue of Kate in episode 18 lead literally every crime boss in Gotham with a grudge against Batwoman right back to her? She went into a club it was established had security cameras without any disguise, and got to the mobster by talking to his cousin as Mary. Kate and Luke should have been more protective of Mary after that mission, not less.
  • No...? Mary was there under the pretense of buying Batwoman's suit at the auction, so that Hamilton Dynamics could examine its technology.
    • But then didn't she very obviously help Batwoman escape?
    • It was dark and chaotic. Who would've noticed?

Emergency Generators?

• Does the Batcave have its own emergency generators? In other continuities, it does, but when Black Mask cuts off all the power in Gotham, the Batcave is rendered powerless as well. We see Luke use a wired construction lamp later on, which does imply generators, but does that mean Bruce didn't install emergency lighting in the Batcave? Also, what did Luke use to power his Batwing suit? Did it seriously just keep a full charge for years?

Kate Kane's face?

• So, Kate is revived and heading out, but the characters seem to have forgotten that Kate's face is technically artificial, attached thanks to Alice in order to hide all the horrible scarring and burned flesh Kate got when her plane crashed. So... who is going to maintain Kate's face? It's still human skin, which will need treatment so it doesn't rot, and Alice even says that she will need regular maintenance in case the seams get loose. There's also just the general feeling of wearing a second layer of skin on your face at all times. How is Kate going to handle maintenance on her face? Moreover, what happened to all her scars and burning below her neck?

Commander Kane: Beat Cop

• I know Main Characters Do Everything, but would it really be too much trouble to not show Commander Kane taking on street level calls, like the machete guy, alone? In one episode, he follows up on a tip about Kate without any bodyguards or backup, predictably leading to his capture and near death. Does he think his mid-level experience makes him bulletproof, or that Gotham's De-facto police chief doesn't have many enemies?
  • There's nothing to indicate Jacob is pursuing Titan completely alone, it's just that his (and Kate's) segment of the chase is the only one shown.
    • Even if Kane is the type of man to get his hands dirty against the pragmatic need to keep him safe (and rush ahead of his bodyguards), why did he venture to the tip alone?
    • "Don't bring anyone else, or else" is a pretty standard ultimatum for these sorts of things. Could be easy as that.

Candy Lady's backstory

• So let's say, for the sake of argument, Ryan's foster sister was dumb enough to think that a child's slingshot would be enough of a weapon to defeat a full-grown kidnapper (or for all she knew, serial killer who killed her victims as soon as she drove them away). But why didn't she and Ryan report their kidnapper, whose face, car and address they knew, after they escaped? I know foster kids probably don't trust authorities much, but what other options, moral or pragmatic, did they have to stop the lady from continuing to kidnap kids, or even taking revenge on them? Why isn't Ryan guilty that every child she kidnapped in those interim twenty years is partially her fault?
  • Since Angelique's slingshot did end up hurting the Candy Lady, that was apparently a solid plan even if it didn't completely pan out. Also, what's to say they didn't report what happened? Ryan was assumed to be a runaway, and, while true, Angelique's story of deliberately getting captured a kidnapper to rescue Ryan from said kidnapper, and being successful all in the space of a few hours, would sound absurd.
    • In Gotham, absurd is a very high bar for a story about crime to pass. What was even that absurd about it? A kid deliberately gets kidnapped to find her foster sister, then escapes with her. Regardless of how committed the police were to finding her, presumably its recorded that Ryan was missing for weeks (and if not, their foster siblings could testify). And the slingshot barely inconvenienced the woman; they had to trip her and hit her with the jar to knock her out. Could she not get a knife or, unwilling to kill someone, something to spray in her eye?
    • The absurdity is exactly what was mentioned: expecting a middle-schooler to have the presence of mind to deliberately get herself kidnapped to possibly get taken to where her friend is being held, and then escape after fighting off an adult... that sounds ridiculous, especially when the working assumption is that Ryan just ran away.
    • As for the slingshot, it did work, more than just a simple toy would. But it also wasn't as effective as Angelique expected, hence her using something else, and she didn't exactly have time to try for the knife or spray and just grabbed the nearest heavyish thing.

Why not copy the desert rose?

• So this series tried to justify how Reed Richards Is Useless by showing that the Desert Rose's curative properties can't be extracted from the blood of people who've had it (or at least people who've gotten a cure made from a dosed person's blood) but why, when the Bat Family discovered Ryan's plant was capable of curing all known diseases and resurrecting the recently deceased, did they never suggest any method of getting it mass produced to save infinite lives? Safiyah believes that the whole world will fight over the rose if they knew about it, but the Bat Family probably doesn't and even if they did, those deaths in war would be stub-toes compared to how many die of disease every year. When it comes time to trade the flower for Alice, all they care about is the plant's sentimental value to Ryan.
  • This question seems like it's vastly underestimating the death toll that would arise from wars aimed at controlling access to what is essentially a magical artifact. Safiyah is completely right about wanting to keep it a secret. And that's not even getting into whether the Desert Rose could be processed on a nation scale to begin with.
    • I concede part of your first point that the potential wars would be very destructive, but the Desert Rose would be "discovered" in America, which has the strongest military on Earth, plus the most powerful superheroes. And why couldn't it be grown on the same scale we grow corn, wheat and soybeans in the real world?
    • America's military might would not prevent foreign agents sneaking in to try and get samples, or even a hostile invasion force made up of several unfriendly nations. Not when something like the Desert Rose is at stake. As for the growing at a massive scale: aside from there physically not being enough space to do that (for example, any crops next to public roads is out of the question), you'd also have to create security to protect all that space. Also, the Desert Rose, so far as we know, only grows in a Mediterranean climate, meaning it might not grow in the US at all at scale.
    • The only reason for the U.S. to hoard the desert rose would be profit; they could spare themselves all the trouble of guarding it if they just grew some of it, then shipped a few thousand seeds all over the world so everyone could grow it. Granted, profit is a very strong motivator even in the face of world war 3, but why not give it to L-Corp or UNICEF or have Mary buy an uninhabited Mediterranean island or somesuch (maybe in secret if they don't trust the government not to try to seize all of it), them go about growing and distributing it? This should have at least been discussed in the show.

Ryan the CEO of Wayne Enterprises?

• I'm not quite getting how Wayne Enterprises is still a thing, at least in its current form. Bruce disappears for years and Lucius is killed. Presumably, the other board of directors are in charge. But then Kate comes in and takes charge, somehow, but focuses entirely on real estate. Then she vanishes, and Ryan is put in charge. So... where are the board of directors? What exactly does Wayne Enterprises do now? Who approved Ryan being the CEO? How is that NOT national news? Does anybody actually work at WE except the main cast? Wouldn't it have been easier to name a different CEO, someone the group can trust, while Ryan concentrates on being Batwoman?
  • My assumption is that Bruce is the majority shareholder in the company, and made himself CEO. After he disappeared, Kate (as his closest living relative) seems to have taken control of his shares, and made herself CEO. And before she left Gotham, Kate made Ryan acting CEO. None of them seem to have done much actual CEO work, using the position mainly as a front for their vigilante activities; presumably, they delegated their responsibilities to a bunch of other executives. What seems to be happening now is that, since Kate and Bruce are both MIA, they're no longer around to tell the board of directors what to do, so they can replace Ryan as CEO if they want to.
  • Except this is completely dropped and never mentioned again after Jada almost bankrupted the company. Ryan would have been asked to step down by the Boards, but she isn't. There is no logical reason why a former bartender and ex-con with no experience in business somehow caused the company to skyrocket.
  • Ryan was asked to step down. And her becoming CEO brought a measure of stability to a shaky company, a good sign, which helps explain the growth.
  • How is putting an ex-con with no experience into a position of leadership for an international company a sign of stability? If she is the most qualified person to lead, then any shareholders are going to sell the moment the news dropped.
  • Because having a CEO is better than having no CEO.

No security cams in Wayne Tower?

• So, Marquis waltzes into Wayne Tower, kills a bunch of security guards and beats up Luke, yet somehow avoids all security cameras and nobody else working at Wayne Tower thinks to call the police? I can understand having no camera in the office, but there should have been one in the hallway and Luke hitting the silent alarm should have been logged in somewhere. Then again, Wayne Enterprises seems to fluctuate between a shell of its former glory and Fortune Top 50 Depending on the Writer, so it wouldn't shock me if nobody in a freaking Batman show thought to install security cameras.
  • He only kills the one guard, up in the private office, and the silent alarm was for that guard, not the police. Since Marquis effectively owns Wayne Enterprises by the end of the episode, he can shut that up real fast.
  • No, he can't. Because any competent investigation would look into the records, find fingerprints on the murder weapon, testimonies from Luke and the receptionists who let him in and know he was in the office where someone was killed. He also murdered a doctor before that, so he has a lot that can be traced to him. Also, him becoming the CEO of Wayne Enterprise will never hold up since Marquis threatened Ryan to get her to sign the contract, which is illegal and can be turned over in a court of law.
  • Certainly he can. Who's to say an investigation even happens, for starters? Not to mention the notorious corruption of the GCPD even if one did. Same thing goes for Marquis becoming the CEO: yes, what he did is actually illegal, but how do you prove it when Marquis now controls all the evidence against him and will no doubt violently retaliate if called into question?
  • You start with the body of the first doctor he murdered, then the security guard that he killed. Luke's testimony and the testimonies of the receptionists will get someone to look into it. This may not be "Jim Gordon's Gotham," but there are still plenty of cops that would normally look into this. Will this happen in the show? Likely not, but in any real world scenario Marquis would have been arrested already with his many loose ends.
  • Marquis is a billionaire. He has enough money and power now to keep literally all of that quiet.
    • Real-life billionaires have gone to prison for much lesser, and better hidden crimes. Plus, all he really had by sunrise was a piece of paper, so the Bat Family would just have to stall any legal proceedings (which should be pretty easy; Ryan just says "I was threatened,") to cut Marquis off from at least half of his potential money and power while they build a case against him. Plus, why didn't Ryan just whoop his ass and tear up the paper as soon as he'd given her the cure? Sure, they're on the clock, but she's Batwoman! An extra three minutes out of an estimated hour to apprehend a dangerous killer and stop him stealing the corporation from them seems more than worth it. I could buy this plot point if there was a given reason why they still wanted to keep it under wraps, but as is, it just seems like Diablous Ex Machina combined with Just Eat Gilligan.

Joker a fashion idol?

• Joker is one of the most notorious criminals in Gotham City, and based on dialog in the series, spent the height of his spree in his trademark purple suit, or at least a variation of it. How in the world did nobody outside the Bat-crew, particularly the news reporters there, make the connection between Marquis' new outfit and the Joker's? Especially given that the former Bat Villains are on everyone's mind thanks to Jada Jet's proclaiment that Batwoman was responsible for their items getting loose? Even if Marquis is seen as having a weird fashion sense, you'd think there would at least be some talking heads that would complain his attire is too insensitive to all the people Joker injured and/or killed during his reign.

We need to stop ignoring Mary by... ignoring Mary!

• So, the big throughline of the Poison Mary plot is that she felt slighted and ignored by Ryan, Sophie, and Luke, even when she had pressing issues. Mary feels so put out that she intentionally tries to break away from the others fast and joins up with Alice and eventually Pamela Isley. Once she is rid of the Poison Ivy gene, she goes back to her old self and apologizes. Ryan and the others apologize too. The first episode she's back... the writers go back to ignoring Mary. Her subplot is entirely paired up with Alice, away from the others. Yes, there's a scene early on where Ryan has a talk with Mary, but then the next scene we have Ryan, Luke, and Sophie huddled around a laptop while Mary is standing all by herself about 15 feet away. Broken Aesop on a meta level much?
  • Not to totally let the writers off the hook, but there is a difference between characters ignoring another character and writers ignoring another character; Kate is alive and well, but not involved in the plot so the writers don't bring her up much, and that isn't a problem. Likewise, Mary's just less relevant to a lot of the show's plots, especially the type that take up the climax of seasons. And she still does some stuff in the final episodes; tying it in with Alice's subplot is arguably just economical storytelling and necessary because of how the two change each other.

Alice & the buzzer

• So much debate in the final few episodes of Season 3 is about whether to give the joy buzzer to Marquis or Alice. Two questions: One, why does no one point out that, while Marquis literally had part of his brain shut off by a first shock from the buzzer, and experts say another shock will undo the damage, Alice is just a neuro-typical with serious trauma, and thus the buzzer is just as if not more likely to make her worse than it is to turn her back into Beth? Also, while it's strongly implied Ryan is desperate to fix Marquis out of her family issues, why are Sophie and Luke, Kate's former best friends who lived through Alice's rampages, totally on her side, insisting they restore someone neither they nor Ryan ever truly knew?
  • Like you said, Marquis has a direct chance of having his sanity restored by the buzzer, which Sophie and Luke are aware of. Plus, once it's clear Alice really wants to become Beth again, Ryan encourages her to actively work through her trauma instead of relying on the buzzer. Alice and Mary were likely already aware of the facts so Ryan chose an emotional appeal instead to finally get through to Alice, putting their personal history aside.

---