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*** Also, Aoki on her own defies any accusations of sexism. For a weekly manga [[Shonen specifcally geared to young males,]] she is a successful mangaka and has done so in her own way, without compromising. It's not sexist, it's a depiction of a place and a profession that was designed with men in mind in the first place. Not because it's sexist, it's because when your company is named Shonen Jump, you write for the men in the first place! Besides, take Takuro, a huge Gonk that just happens to be a failure as a Mangaka yet amazing at backgrounds, and tell me it's females getting the bad treatment. For your information, "Men have dreams..." line is just as true as "Women have dreams that Men can't understand." They don't disparage Shoujo, they point out rightfully so that they aren't supposed to be making Shoujo works! This manga is '''not''' sexist. If they outright said, "Women can't write Shonen" or "Women shouldn't create manga or do things they want" that would be sexist. Bakuman just... isn't.
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*** Also, Aoki on her own defies any accusations of sexism. For a weekly manga [[Shonen [[{{Shonen}} specifcally geared to young males,]] she is a successful mangaka and has done so in her own way, without compromising. It's not sexist, it's a depiction of a place and a profession that was designed with men in mind in the first place. Not because it's sexist, it's because when your company is named Shonen Jump, you write for the men in the first place! Besides, take Takuro, a huge Gonk that just happens to be a failure as a Mangaka yet amazing at backgrounds, and tell me it's females getting the bad treatment. For your information, "Men have dreams..." line is just as true as "Women have dreams that Men can't understand." They don't disparage Shoujo, they point out rightfully so that they aren't supposed to be making Shoujo works! This manga is '''not''' sexist. If they outright said, "Women can't write Shonen" or "Women shouldn't create manga or do things they want" that would be sexist. Bakuman just... isn't.
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** The main problem was the inability to get a sponsor, possibly to indicate that popularity isn't everything.
* Was there any reason for Moritaka to hide that his uncle was in love with Miho's mother from Miho? He states that there wasn't any reason to tell her, but earlier scenes seem to indicate that he was actively trying to prevent Miho from finding out, including asking her mother not to tell her after hearing that she didn't know (and becoming quite relieved). It doesn't seem to have any benefit, and ends up getting him in trouble with Miho.
* Miyuki told Nobuhiro, after getting engaged, that she could only write to him until she got married (although it seems he ended the correspondence immediately after hearing this), but still continued to read his manga and watch his anime. What exactly are the rules for contact between married women and male friends in Japan, or was this self-imposed on Miyuki's part in order to fully commit to her husband?
* Was there any reason for Moritaka to hide that his uncle was in love with Miho's mother from Miho? He states that there wasn't any reason to tell her, but earlier scenes seem to indicate that he was actively trying to prevent Miho from finding out, including asking her mother not to tell her after hearing that she didn't know (and becoming quite relieved). It doesn't seem to have any benefit, and ends up getting him in trouble with Miho.
* Miyuki told Nobuhiro, after getting engaged, that she could only write to him until she got married (although it seems he ended the correspondence immediately after hearing this), but still continued to read his manga and watch his anime. What exactly are the rules for contact between married women and male friends in Japan, or was this self-imposed on Miyuki's part in order to fully commit to her husband?
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* If PCP isn't going to get an anime, why did they bother showing us the anime proposals?
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* Nakai. Ever since Nanamine brought him back, he's done nothing but show how far he's gone. Every time he had a moment to show he still had some decency left (feeling uncomfortable about Nanamine's methods, realizing his current position would do nothing to gain Aoki's respect), he quickly squashed it by showing that he was lazy, sexist slob right afterwards. He even turned down Fukai's help when it was offered hoping he'd get into a girl's pants. So why he is allowed redemption by presumably mooching off of Hiramaru? If this is just so we get more gags off of Hiramaru's suffering, well, shit.
* Also, why did Aoki offer herself up to Nakai? If she was the one who wronged him, kudos to her, but hell, SHE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG.
* Also, why did Aoki offer herself up to Nakai? If she was the one who wronged him, kudos to her, but hell, SHE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG.
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*** Congratulations, you can't distinguish fact from opinion. We applaud your preaching, really. Have you ever noticed how in a lot of girl's manga, the males are comparatively flat/idealized as well? Guess what? Not everyone is great at writing the opposite sex, yet apparently it's only bad when men do it, right? (Personally, I couldn't bring myself to complain about Bakuman's issues with gender after how they handled Aoki rejecting Nakai's piggish behavior. The story SUPPORTS Aoki standing up to him, and this is important in a country that has serious problems with sexual harassment and women asserting themselves in those situations.)
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*** Congratulations, you can't distinguish fact from opinion. We applaud your preaching, really. Have you ever noticed how in a lot of girl's manga, the males are comparatively flat/idealized as well? Guess what? Not everyone is great at writing the opposite sex, yet apparently it's only bad when men do it, right? (Personally, I couldn't bring myself to complain about Bakuman's issues with gender after how they handled Aoki rejecting Nakai's piggish behavior. The story SUPPORTS Aoki standing up to him, and this is important in a country that has serious problems with sexual harassment and women asserting themselves in those situations.) Also, you can word anything to make a show sound sexist. I can make a pretty good essay about how Avatar: The Last Airbender is sexist because all the female characters' important roles are initiated by men, Katara is a prize for Aaang at the end, and Azula going crazy at the end is just a mockery of independent women and implies that women in power are too unstable to handle it. Guess what? A lot of other people love the female characters, and the creators openly state they love strong female characters. Maybe you need to accept that not everyone shares your standards, and necessarily should.
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*** Congratulations, you can't distinguish fact from opinion. We applaud your preaching.
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*** Congratulations, you can't distinguish fact from opinion. We applaud your preaching.preaching, really. Have you ever noticed how in a lot of girl's manga, the males are comparatively flat/idealized as well? Guess what? Not everyone is great at writing the opposite sex, yet apparently it's only bad when men do it, right? (Personally, I couldn't bring myself to complain about Bakuman's issues with gender after how they handled Aoki rejecting Nakai's piggish behavior. The story SUPPORTS Aoki standing up to him, and this is important in a country that has serious problems with sexual harassment and women asserting themselves in those situations.)
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***Congratulations, you can't distinguish fact from opinion. We applaud your preaching.
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*** Bakuman is sexist. Why is that so hard to accept? It doesn't mean people aren't allowed to like it, but it does have problems, and one of them is the misogyny. It may be a manga focusing on guys in an industry dominated by men, but many of the female characters are underdeveloped and shallow. Aoki is cute and docile, and fairly successful. According to this series, she's the epitome of what a woman should be. Like Azuki, who is also cute, quiet and docile. Iwase was ambitious and a bit of a hothead but unlikable; at least until she she chilled out. Then she found success. At what point was acting out and being ambitious a detriment to the main duo? Once in a while, it got them into trouble but overall, it's seen as a strength. Fukuda? Eiji? If the authors are trying to show the general perception of women and how women should be in Japan, then they're doing a pretty good job. Too bad Japan is sexist itself. Even taking into account that this is a fairly realistic series and we're meant to perceive the women from the men's point of view, the series has a lot of sexist undertones. Trying to justify and excuse its problems doesn't make Bakuman any less sexist or change the minds of anyone who thinks it is.
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** Bakuman is sexist. Why is that so hard to accept? It doesn't mean people aren't allowed to like it, but it does have problems, and one of them is the misogyny. It may be a manga focusing on guys in an industry dominated by men, but many of the female characters are underdeveloped and shallow. Aoki is cute and docile, and fairly successful. According to this series, she's the epitome of what a woman should be. Like Azuki, who is also cute, quiet and docile. Iwase was ambitious and a bit of a hothead but unlikable; at least until she she chilled out. Then she found success. At what point was acting out and being ambitious a detriment to the main duo? Once in a while, it got them into trouble but overall, it's seen as a strength. Fukuda? Eiji? If the authors are trying to show the general perception of women and how women should be in Japan, then they're doing a pretty good job. Too bad Japan is sexist itself. Even taking into account that this is a fairly realistic series and we're meant to perceive the women from the men's point of view, the series has a lot of sexist undertones. Trying to justify and excuse its problems doesn't make Bakuman any less sexist or change the minds of anyone who thinks it is.
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** Bakuman is sexist. Why is that so hard to accept? It doesn't mean people aren't allowed to like it, but it does have problems, and one of them is the misogyny. It may be a manga focusing on guys in an industry dominated by men, but many of the female characters are underdeveloped and shallow. Aoki is cute and docile, and fairly successful. According to this series, she's the epitome of what a woman should be. Like Azuki, who is also cute, quiet and docile. Iwase was ambitious and a bit of a hothead but unlikable; at least until she she chilled out. Then she found success. At what point was acting out and being ambitious a detriment to the main duo? Once in a while, it got them into trouble but overall, it's seen as a strength. Fukuda? Eiji? If the authors are trying to show the general perception of women and how women should be in Japan, then they're doing a pretty good job. Too bad Japan is sexist itself. Even taking into account that this is a fairly realistic series and we're meant to perceive the women from the men's point of view, the series has a lot of sexist undertones. Trying to justify and excuse its problems doesn't make Bakuman any less sexist or change the minds of anyone who thinks it is.
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*** The two are writing for a ''boys'' magazine, so it makes sense to focus more on the male demographic and consider that the writers of fan letters may not be the best source of advice (additionally, the main characters were mainly focused on keeping their manga in the magazine instead of doing what makes sense for the story). I wonder how things would have gone if they'd chosen to
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*** The two are writing for a ''boys'' magazine, so it makes sense to focus more on the male demographic and consider that the writers of fan letters may not be the best source of advice (additionally, the main characters were mainly focused on keeping their manga in the magazine instead of doing what makes sense for the story). I wonder how things would have gone if they'd chosen to
*** Also, Aoki on her own defies any accusations of sexism. For a weekly manga [[Shonen specifcally geared to young males,]] she is a successful mangaka and has done so in her own way, without compromising. It's not sexist, it's a depiction of a place and a profession that was designed with men in mind in the first place. Not because it's sexist, it's because when your company is named Shonen Jump, you write for the men in the first place! Besides, take Takuro, a huge Gonk that just happens to be a failure as a Mangaka yet amazing at backgrounds, and tell me it's females getting the bad treatment. For your information, "Men have dreams..." line is just as true as "Women have dreams that Men can't understand." They don't disparage Shoujo, they point out rightfully so that they aren't supposed to be making Shoujo works! This manga is '''not''' sexist. If they outright said, "Women can't write Shonen" or "Women shouldn't create manga or do things they want" that would be sexist. Bakuman just... isn't.
*** Also, Aoki on her own defies any accusations of sexism. For a weekly manga [[Shonen specifcally geared to young males,]] she is a successful mangaka and has done so in her own way, without compromising. It's not sexist, it's a depiction of a place and a profession that was designed with men in mind in the first place. Not because it's sexist, it's because when your company is named Shonen Jump, you write for the men in the first place! Besides, take Takuro, a huge Gonk that just happens to be a failure as a Mangaka yet amazing at backgrounds, and tell me it's females getting the bad treatment. For your information, "Men have dreams..." line is just as true as "Women have dreams that Men can't understand." They don't disparage Shoujo, they point out rightfully so that they aren't supposed to be making Shoujo works! This manga is '''not''' sexist. If they outright said, "Women can't write Shonen" or "Women shouldn't create manga or do things they want" that would be sexist. Bakuman just... isn't.
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*** The two are writing for a ''boys'' magazine, so it makes sense to focus more on the male demographic and consider that the writers of fan letters may not be the best source of advice (additionally, the main characters were mainly focused on keeping their manga in the magazine instead of doing what makes sense for the story). I wonder how things would have gone if they'd chosen to
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* Couldn't they have ever shown Iwase as a mangaka outside of her rivalry and pride? I think it'd be great character development for her if she actually learns to ''enjoy'' writing manga for what it is itself. She's been writing Natural for a few years now; a rivalry can drive you for only so long. I think the award ceremony would have been a great moment to show this, but all she does is brag how her series is longer than Ashirogi Muto's (though she did blush when Takagi complimented her).
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** Obata's first series, ''Cyborg Jiichan G,'' was (as I understand, not having read) a gag manga.
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*** Still, when Takagi mentions it, Mashiro immediately dismisses him, but after Takagi explains his reasoning, Mashiro is impressed at Takagi's intelligence and way of thinking, which could indicate that we're meant to agree. Then again, ''Mashiro'' isn't always right, either, and is often wrong about many of the same things Takagi is wrong about, so it's hard to say.
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** He has had a problem with keeping secrets from others, but one would think that he would learn to be more open with others after the incident in which Kaya discovered Iwase's letter.
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** Saiko's mother would be a case of StrawmanHasAPoint if not for the fact that Saiko acknowledges the low probability of success, but the problem is that she seems unwilling to accept Saiko's concessions (giving up if he can't get results by the time he graduates from college), making her seem overly stubborn. In the anime, she appears to gradually soften over time, as seen in the way she approaches the subject in one of the scenes at the breakfast table with Saiko's grandfather, and when she lets him stay at his uncle's office. Miho is somewhat underdeveloped, and while this is, to an extent earlier on, FridgeBrilliance (as Saiko doesn't really know the girl he's working so hard to earn the right to marry), it would be nice to see her personality besides her love for Saiko explored more in depth. It was fairly interesting early on to see her tease Saiko about the length of this email, especially when Saiko reacts in surprise at seeing that side of her, a it was an event that showed there was more to her than Saiko thought.
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*I really hate how all the girls so far are either stupid, annoying, bland, or very easy to hate as characters. Also, I dislike how, in the first few chapters, Saiko's mom brings up some valid points about why she doesn't want Saiko to be a mangaka, but when she talks to his dad, the Dad says basically the equivalent of "Oh, you women wouldn't understand". It's a good manga, it's a good story, I love the art, and I love the characters but I can't stop wishing that the authors would stop being so mean to the gals.
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* The art bugs me. A lot. It may not be a horrible art style but it tends to be a little too stylistic and a little too gross. When they make the anime faces for gag scenes, they look hideous. Usually in those type of siutations, people would go for a simpler look or an outline for comedic effect. Instead, he makes them look like they've had their faces stepped on. As for the gross part, the features they choose to accentuate for stylistic purposes really gross me out. Focusing on the eyelids instead of the eyes, the flappy lips, snot, and various other weird things. The girls, oddly, don't seem to suffer from this. Probably because the author doesn't see it as appropriate to have unattractive girls. *insert mumbling about sexism here*
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* The art bugs me. A lot. It may not be a horrible art style but it tends to be a little too stylistic and a little too gross. When they make the anime faces for gag scenes, they look hideous. Usually in those type of siutations, people would go for a simpler look or an outline for comedic effect. Instead, he makes them look like they've had their faces stepped on. As for the gross part, the features they choose to accentuate for stylistic purposes really gross me out. Focusing on the eyelids instead of the eyes, the flappy lips, snot, and various other weird things. The girls, oddly, don't seem to suffer from this. Probably because the author doesn't see it as appropriate to have unattractive girls. *insert mumbling about sexism here*here* Takeshi Obata is still one of my favorite artists ever, but I don't think he's suited for this style. I always saw him less as a gag artist and more of a refined artist.
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* The art bugs me. A lot. It may not be a horrible art style but it tends to be a little too stylistic and a little too gross. When they make the anime faces for gag scenes, they look hideous. Usually in those type of siutations, people would go for a simpler look or an outline for comedic effect. Instead, he makes them look like they've had their faces stepped on. As for the gross part, the features they choose to accentuate for stylistic purposes really gross me out. Focusing on the eyelids instead of the eyes, the flappy lips, snot, and various other weird things. The girls, oddly, don't seem to suffer from this. Probably because the author doesn't see it as appropriate to have unattractive girls. *insert mumbling about sexism here*
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** I didn't see this as something that was really debatable. Bakuman is sexist. It's obviously sexist. There's not any real attempt to hide it either. The way they treat women who have goals that aren't 'acceptable' for women as unnatractive and arrogant. The way they actually point that out. How they disparage shoujo manga and sneer at the idea of taking advice from female fans. The 'men have dreams women couldn't understand' is just one of the most obvious in a long list of sexist things this manga has said, and not even getting started on the more subtle sexist characters. I like this manga, it's fun to read, and it reminds me a lot of Hikaru No Go too. It's just that it's very sexist. It doesn't matter if Japan is sexist and that's the way they were taught to think, it doesn't stop it from being sexist. That's like saying if you grow up in a family where swearing is normal, that means you aren't swearing. It makes no sense. It's just sad, because these are artists I really respect. I feel more hurt than angry knowing what they think of women.
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* Kind of bugs me that Takagi didn't just ''tell'' his wife and partner that he was simply ''training'' Shiratori and planned to leave him once it was okay. He could've saved them so much grief that way!
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*** Hattori finds it suspicious on a few occasions how much they're going for an anime, and even back in Chapter 14 (when they still thought they could get an anime at 18), asks why they're in such a hurry. One would think he would be a little closer to figuring out why they want an anime, especially since Mashiro immediately recommends Azuki for the PCP audio CD.
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** Or maybe there'll be a second season depending on the anime's success! With the length of the manga, there are probably quite a few places where the anime could end while resolving most plot threads, leaving material for future seasons.
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** Or maybe there'll be a second season depending on the anime's success! With the length of the manga, there are probably quite a few places where the anime could end while resolving most plot threads, leaving material for future seasons. seasons.
*** Given the rate at which chapters cover episodes (almost 1:1), and the characters and scenes shown (the last introduced character shown on the website is Koogy, and somewhat prominent ones like Hiramaru, Miura and older Iwase are not shown) I suspect that it the anime will get up to when Detective Trap first gets serialized, which seems to be the main milestone in the plot that it makes most sense to reach and conclude at for the first series (although as we've seen in the last 70+ chapers, getting a series serialized is difficult, but the real test is making it popular enough to stay in the magazine and get an anime).
*** Given the rate at which chapters cover episodes (almost 1:1), and the characters and scenes shown (the last introduced character shown on the website is Koogy, and somewhat prominent ones like Hiramaru, Miura and older Iwase are not shown) I suspect that it the anime will get up to when Detective Trap first gets serialized, which seems to be the main milestone in the plot that it makes most sense to reach and conclude at for the first series (although as we've seen in the last 70+ chapers, getting a series serialized is difficult, but the real test is making it popular enough to stay in the magazine and get an anime).
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** ThisTroper always interpreted all that to imply that while Iwase was more academically inclined, Azuki had a certain special blend of cultural/social/emotional intelligence that's actually way more crucial to personal and professional success in life. Also remember that Takagi thinks Azuki is smarter than him, which says a lot by how much he values this particular type of intelligence. Which makes sense to ThisTroper; schools don't have the power to teach the really important things in life that actually determine success.
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** ThisTroper This troper always interpreted all that to imply that while Iwase was more academically inclined, Azuki had a certain special blend of cultural/social/emotional intelligence that's actually way more crucial to personal and professional success in life. Also remember that Takagi thinks Azuki is smarter than him, which says a lot by how much he values this particular type of intelligence. Which makes sense to ThisTroper; this troper; schools don't have the power to teach the really important things in life that actually determine success.
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**Also Takagi tries to say why they want an anime so much and Mashiro shuts him up, so most likely Mashiro doesn't want to tell Hattori.
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** ThisTroper always interpreted all that to imply that while Iwase was more academically inclined, Azuki had a certain special blend of cultural/social/emotional intelligence that's actually way more crucial to personal and professional success in life. Also remember that Takagi thinks Azuki is smarter than him, which says a lot by how much he values this particular type of intelligence. Which makes sense to ThisTroper; schools don't have the power to teach the really important things in life that actually determine success.
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** ThisTroper always interpreted all that to imply that while Iwase was more academically inclined, Azuki had a certain special blend of cultural/social/emotional intelligence that's actually way more crucial to personal and professional success in life. Also remember that Takagi thinks Azuki is smarter than him, which says a lot by how much he values this particular type of intelligence. Which makes sense to ThisTroper; schools don't have the power to teach the really important things in life that actually determine success. success.
** And it's not like Takagi is always right. He was quite flippant about manga in the beginning, only to learn how serious business it is and how much he has to work for it. It's also shown that Azuki is serious about voice acting the same way as Mashiro about manga and not just to appear "cute". The "men have dreams that women don't understand" part is sexist, but I view it as a quite realistic portrayal of the older generations in Japan. Women of Takagi and Mashiro generations have their own ambitions, careers and hardships just like their boyfriends/colleagues.
** And it's not like Takagi is always right. He was quite flippant about manga in the beginning, only to learn how serious business it is and how much he has to work for it. It's also shown that Azuki is serious about voice acting the same way as Mashiro about manga and not just to appear "cute". The "men have dreams that women don't understand" part is sexist, but I view it as a quite realistic portrayal of the older generations in Japan. Women of Takagi and Mashiro generations have their own ambitions, careers and hardships just like their boyfriends/colleagues.
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** Or maybe there'll be a second season depending on the anime's success! With the length of the manga, there are probably quite a few places where the anime could end while resolving most plot threads, leaving material for future seasons.
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** I imagine they will cut some of the scenes not relating to the main duo's manga development as long as it doesn't interfere with the plot. For instance there are a lot of scenes on Otter 11's development and getting the mangaka to actually work on it. It's not crucial to the story so I think scenes like this would be cut.
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** It's an extremely personal detail in their personal life, and it's usually clear that work and personal details shouldn't mix.
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** It's an extremely personal detail in their personal life, private lifes, and it's usually clear that work and personal details shouldn't mix.
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** It's an extremely personal detail in their personal life, and it's usually clear that work and personal details shouldn't mix.
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* Does anyone besides Takagi, the Miyoshi family and Iwase know about ThePromise between Mashiro and Azuki to get married once PCP gets an anime and Azuki becomes the main heroine? Hattori seems quite surprised at a few points at how insistent Mashiro and Takagi are at getting an anime, and as this may well come up now that [[spoiler:PCP apparently won't be getting an anime]], it's strange that he's been their editor for so long without them saying anything about this to him.
* How are the producers of the anime going to convert over 100 chapters worth of material into a 25-episode anime? DeathNote had 37 episodes for 108 chapters, making a roughly 1:3 episode-chapter ratio, and even then, the producers cut out a fair amount from the last part, including the last two chapters. Considering that Bakuman probably will have at least as many chapters as Death Note by the time it ends, making it at least 1:4 (if not closer to 1:5), I can only see the producers removing even more (perhaps the entire Tanto arc?), or significantly changing the plot.
* How are the producers of the anime going to convert over 100 chapters worth of material into a 25-episode anime? DeathNote had 37 episodes for 108 chapters, making a roughly 1:3 episode-chapter ratio, and even then, the producers cut out a fair amount from the last part, including the last two chapters. Considering that Bakuman probably will have at least as many chapters as Death Note by the time it ends, making it at least 1:4 (if not closer to 1:5), I can only see the producers removing even more (perhaps the entire Tanto arc?), or significantly changing the plot.
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**ThisTroper always interpreted all that to imply that while Iwase was more academically inclined, Azuki had a certain special blend of cultural/social/emotional intelligence that's actually way more crucial to personal and professional success in life. Also remember that Takagi thinks Azuki is smarter than him, which says a lot by how much he values this particular type of intelligence. Which makes sense to ThisTroper; schools don't have the power to teach the really important things in life that actually determine success.
