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*So, in the final mission, [[spoiler:Shay kills Arno's dad, who's dying words are "Connor and the American revolution have undone your work", prompting Shay to respond that the Templars will start their own revolution(in France).]] I can doing it as a lead in to Unity, but the scene takes place in late 1776. The American Revolution was just kicking off and the Colonial Army hadn't exactly been doing great that year(with Trenton probably not even happening yet), while Connor was probably just starting his revenge spree through the Colonial Templar ranks(IIRC, he might have killed one of Haytham's buddies by that point). Isn't Charles being a bit premature in saying the Templars are finished in North America?
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* Speaking of which, is it every explained why the Assassins are so hell bent on killing Ben Franklin in Paris? I thought Franklin was rather well regarded by them, even if he didn't realize just who they were. I know they're never technically called such but they act like Assassins and it's not like Shay has referred to Assassins using the generic "Criminals" before. Assuming of course it wasn't just an excuse to lead into Shay's final scene.

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* Speaking of which, is it every ever explained why the Assassins are so hell bent on killing Ben Franklin in Paris? I thought Franklin was rather well regarded by them, even if he didn't realize just who they were. I know they're never technically called such but they act like Assassins and it's not like Shay has referred to Assassins using the generic "Criminals" before. Assuming of course it wasn't just an excuse to lead into Shay's final scene.




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**I think the writers kind of forgot about that plot point by the time they got to the end and hoped everyone else would as well. Kind of a pity, considering after ACIV, Ubisoft seems to have stopped caring about the Juno plot that they spent a lot of time setting up in III and IV.
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* On a related note, what is the purpose of having temples with Pieces of Eden inside which are so incredibly unstable that they cause massive earthquakes if disturbed? My only guess is that they were meant to somehow stabilize the Earth against the 2012 disaster that Desmond averted but it's annoying that this is the first(and perhaps only) mention of them in the series so far.

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* On a related note, what is the purpose of having temples with Pieces of Eden inside which which[[spoiler: are so incredibly unstable that they cause massive earthquakes if disturbed? disturbed]]? My only guess is that they were meant to somehow stabilize the Earth against the 2012 disaster that Desmond averted but it's annoying that this is the first(and perhaps only) mention of them in the series so far.
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* Does anyone else find it kind of puzzling that the device in Lisbon is basically in the church basement and obviously the people who built the church had to have known about it(not to mention install an Assassin Friendly security system in the rafters) and yet somehow not activated it, triggering the Lisbon Earthquake centuries earlier? Unlike the other Precursor temples(such as the vaults in Rome, the Grand Temple in upstate New York, the Sage temple in the Yucatan, or the Observatory in Cuba), it's neither hard to get into(AKA locked behind impenetrable doors) nor deep underground, yet Shay apparently was the first one to both get in and trigger a massive earthquake.

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* Does anyone else find it kind of puzzling that the device in Lisbon is basically in the church basement and obviously the people who built the church had to have known about it(not to mention install an Assassin Friendly security system in the rafters) and yet somehow not activated it, it,[[spoiler: triggering the Lisbon Earthquake centuries earlier? earlier?]] Unlike the other Precursor temples(such as the vaults in Rome, the Grand Temple in upstate New York, the Sage temple in the Yucatan, or the Observatory in Cuba), it's neither hard to get into(AKA locked behind impenetrable doors) nor deep underground, yet Shay apparently was the first one to both get in and [[spoiler: trigger a massive earthquake.earthquake that killed thousands]].

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** It does feel like pretty much everything after Lisbon could have been avoided if everyone had seriously talked it over calmly for five minutes. Shay literally had months to sort out his feelings over what happened and should have been a little more nuanced in his concerns then exploding at Achilles and Achilles should have at least tried to sympathize with Shay regarding his role in the whole debacle. [[spoiler: Though if they had, ACIII and Unity would have been avoided entirely]].


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*On a related note, what is the purpose of having temples with Pieces of Eden inside which are so incredibly unstable that they cause massive earthquakes if disturbed? My only guess is that they were meant to somehow stabilize the Earth against the 2012 disaster that Desmond averted but it's annoying that this is the first(and perhaps only) mention of them in the series so far.

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* Speaking of which, is it every explained why the Assassins are so hell bent on killing Ben Franklin in Paris? I thought Franklin was rather well regarded by them, even if he didn't realize just who they were. I know they're never technically called such but they act like Assassins and it's not like Shay has referred to Assassins using the generic "Criminals" before. Assuming of course it wasn't just an excuse to lead into Shay's final scene.


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*Does anyone else find it kind of puzzling that the device in Lisbon is basically in the church basement and obviously the people who built the church had to have known about it(not to mention install an Assassin Friendly security system in the rafters) and yet somehow not activated it, triggering the Lisbon Earthquake centuries earlier? Unlike the other Precursor temples(such as the vaults in Rome, the Grand Temple in upstate New York, the Sage temple in the Yucatan, or the Observatory in Cuba), it's neither hard to get into(AKA locked behind impenetrable doors) nor deep underground, yet Shay apparently was the first one to both get in and trigger a massive earthquake.
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** With the entire city falling apart, literally, running to open ground would be suicidal. No direction is safe, no person outside of the fringes of the city could get away from it in time, and open ground would eventually be swallowed up too (shifting crust and all that). In the heat of the moment, the only real safe haven for Shay was out at sea on the Morrigan, which was 'just' outside of the disaster area...




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** [[spoiler:I think the comment was more of a general purpose 'be careful', rather than 'don't mess with them, period'. After all, despite the PoorCommunicationKills that resulted, neither Achilles nor Shay (or anyone, players included) knew that removing the Piece of Eden underneath Lisbon would cause it to disintegrate, much less ''cause an earthquake''. After all, in all their history, Pieces of Eden were stable artifacts with mysterious powers; numerous Assassins and Templars removed them without disturbing the area or anything nearby... they couldn't expect the Lisbon one to do what it did...]]
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** If we need an in-universe reason, I think Kenway doesn't really think all that highly of Shay. Shay is just a hired gun to him and he sends him on his way not long after taking care of business. Even if Kenway respects Shay just fine, he doesn't really dwell on the Purge all that much.

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*** Shay had just emerged from a near fatal encounter with the Assassin's, hell I'd be surprised if he HADN'T been a bit out of sorts after that kind of confrontation

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*** ** Shay had just emerged from a near fatal encounter with the Assassin's, Assassins, hell I'd be surprised if he HADN'T been a bit out of sorts after that kind of confrontation




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[[folder:Cormac and Kenway]]



* [[spoiler:Did the assassins develop amnesia during Shay's trip to Lisbon? Achilles tells Shay to be careful because Pieces of Eden are powerful relics. I understand why Achilles and Shay could have forgotten but not Hope who was within earshot when the comment was made.]]

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* [[spoiler:Did the assassins develop amnesia during Shay's trip to Lisbon? Achilles tells Shay to be careful because Pieces of Eden are powerful relics. I understand why Achilles and Shay could have forgotten but not Hope who was within earshot when the comment was made.]]]]

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* Did the assassins develop amnesia during Shay's trip to Lisbon? Achilles tells Shay to be careful because Pieces of Eden are powerful relics. I understand why Achilles and Shay could have forgotten but not Hope who was within earshot when the comment was made.

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* Did [[spoiler:Did the assassins develop amnesia during Shay's trip to Lisbon? Achilles tells Shay to be careful because Pieces of Eden are powerful relics. I understand why Achilles and Shay could have forgotten but not Hope who was within earshot when the comment was made.]]
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assassin amnesia


* Since De Costa asks, why didn't Kenway mention Cormac in any of his journals?

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* Since De Costa asks, why didn't Kenway mention Cormac in any of his journals?journals?
*Did the assassins develop amnesia during Shay's trip to Lisbon? Achilles tells Shay to be careful because Pieces of Eden are powerful relics. I understand why Achilles and Shay could have forgotten but not Hope who was within earshot when the comment was made.
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* During the [[spoiler: 1755 Lisbon Earthquake]] what do you think is the better strategy for survival? Find an open clearing away from any collapsing buildings or run through several hundred of them at top speed?
** When you are a well trained assassin bad-ass who can leap up an around buildings with cat-like graceI think you are allowed a bit of leeway with your course of action. Also, what open areas? The entire city was collapsing around him!

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* During the [[spoiler: 1755 Lisbon Earthquake]] what do you think is the better strategy for survival? Find Finding an open clearing away from any collapsing buildings or run [[ViolationOfCommonSense running through several hundred of them at top speed?
speed]]?
** When you are a well trained assassin bad-ass who can leap up an around buildings with cat-like graceI grace, I think you are allowed a bit of leeway with your course of action. Also, what open areas? The entire city was collapsing around him!
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* Why did Juno unleash that virus on the Helix servers? Was it really just to get that condescending Animus fragment message to the Helix researcher?

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* Why did Juno unleash that virus on the Helix servers? Was it really just to get that condescending Animus fragment message to the Helix researcher?researcher?
* Since De Costa asks, why didn't Kenway mention Cormac in any of his journals?
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** Shay calling out the Assassin's on them becoming more focused on killing Templars + fighting them at every opportunity rather than doing what they're preaching (which lasted into the modern era, as indirectly noted by Shaun and Rebecca in III) is part of his tale.

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** Shay calling out the Assassin's on them becoming more focused on killing Templars + fighting them at every opportunity rather than doing what they're preaching (which lasted into the modern era, as indirectly noted by Shaun and Rebecca in III) is part of his tale.tale.
* Why did Juno unleash that virus on the Helix servers? Was it really just to get that condescending Animus fragment message to the Helix researcher?
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** The answer is simple: GameplayAndStorySegregation. Plus it has been seen before by Altair, as a reward for completing AC1.



** Wouldn't be the first time that Assassin leadership focused more on the war with the Templars than on fulfilling and promulgating the very ideals that the war is supposed to be about...

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** Wouldn't be the first time that Assassin leadership focused more on the war with the Templars than on fulfilling and promulgating the very ideals that the war is supposed to be about...about...
** Shay calling out the Assassin's on them becoming more focused on killing Templars + fighting them at every opportunity rather than doing what they're preaching (which lasted into the modern era, as indirectly noted by Shaun and Rebecca in III) is part of his tale.
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** Also note that in III's prologue, the only sign of the Colonial Assassins was a rather large, well-manned fort full of gang members/mercenaries. They decided to capitalize on that, probably because dozens of hooded master Assassin mooks would get kinda silly.

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** Also note that in III's prologue, the only sign of the Colonial Assassins was a rather large, well-manned fort full of gang members/mercenaries. They decided to capitalize on that, probably because dozens of hooded master Assassin mooks would get kinda silly.silly.
** Wouldn't be the first time that Assassin leadership focused more on the war with the Templars than on fulfilling and promulgating the very ideals that the war is supposed to be about...
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** In fact, the Assassins have had a significant criminal presence since the time of Ezio, when both La Volpe and Antonio were members of the Italian brotherhood in good standing despite controlling organized crime in two cities. It's just that here we see the negative effects when the Assassins actually have control, and therefore let their minions run wild. It may well be Ezio's policies that started them on this path, as Ezio supported several ''very'' questionable people (such as Lorenzo de Medici, Caterina Sforza, and Selim I) in his lifelong war with the Templar Order, not to mention the countless innocents that he killed in Derinkuyu.

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** In fact, the Assassins have had a significant criminal presence since the time of Ezio, when both La Volpe and Antonio were members of the Italian brotherhood in good standing despite controlling organized crime in two cities. It's just that here we see the negative effects when the Assassins actually have control, and therefore let their minions run wild. It may well be Ezio's policies that started them on this path, as Ezio supported several ''very'' questionable people (such as Lorenzo de Medici, Caterina Sforza, and Selim I) in his lifelong war with the Templar Order, not to mention the countless innocents that he killed in Derinkuyu.Derinkuyu.
** Also note that in III's prologue, the only sign of the Colonial Assassins was a rather large, well-manned fort full of gang members/mercenaries. They decided to capitalize on that, probably because dozens of hooded master Assassin mooks would get kinda silly.
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** In fact, the Assassins have had a significant criminal presence since the time of Ezio, when both La Volpe and Antonio were members of the Italian brotherhood in good standing despite controlling organized crime in two cities. It's just that here we see the negative effects when the Assassins actually have control, and therefore let their minions run wild. It may well be Ezio's policies that started them on this path, as Ezio supported several ''very'' questionable people (such as Lorenzo de Medici, Caterina Sforza, and the Ottoman Empire) in his lifelong war with the Templar Order, not to mention the countless innocents that he killed in Derinkuyu.

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** In fact, the Assassins have had a significant criminal presence since the time of Ezio, when both La Volpe and Antonio were members of the Italian brotherhood in good standing despite controlling organized crime in two cities. It's just that here we see the negative effects when the Assassins actually have control, and therefore let their minions run wild. It may well be Ezio's policies that started them on this path, as Ezio supported several ''very'' questionable people (such as Lorenzo de Medici, Caterina Sforza, and the Ottoman Empire) Selim I) in his lifelong war with the Templar Order, not to mention the countless innocents that he killed in Derinkuyu.
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** In fact, the Assassins have had a significant criminal presence since the time of Ezio, when both La Volpe and Antonio were members of the Italian brotherhood in good standing despite controlling organized crime in two cities. It's just that here we see the negative effects when the Assassins actually have control, and therefore let their minions run wild. It may well be Ezio's policies that started them on this path, as Ezio supported several ''very'' questionable people (such as Lorenzo de Medici and the Ottoman Empire) in his lifelong war with the Templar Order, not to mention the countless innocents that he killed in Derinkuyu.

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** In fact, the Assassins have had a significant criminal presence since the time of Ezio, when both La Volpe and Antonio were members of the Italian brotherhood in good standing despite controlling organized crime in two cities. It's just that here we see the negative effects when the Assassins actually have control, and therefore let their minions run wild. It may well be Ezio's policies that started them on this path, as Ezio supported several ''very'' questionable people (such as Lorenzo de Medici Medici, Caterina Sforza, and the Ottoman Empire) in his lifelong war with the Templar Order, not to mention the countless innocents that he killed in Derinkuyu.Derinkuyu.

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* What the heck happened to the Assassin Order in the colonies? They used to just associate with thieves, criminals, and pirates, but now they are the active majority amongst the Assassin ranks. With Achilles' off hand dismissal of Shay's concern about Precursor superweapons, it seems like the Assassin have adopted view that they are incapable of doing wrong as long as their actions are anti-Templar.

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* What the heck happened to the Assassin Order in the colonies? They used to just associate with thieves, criminals, and pirates, but now they are the active majority amongst the Assassin ranks. With Achilles' off hand dismissal of Shay's concern about Precursor superweapons, it seems like the Assassin have adopted view that they are incapable of doing wrong as long as their actions are anti-Templar.
** In fact, the Assassins have had a significant criminal presence since the time of Ezio, when both La Volpe and Antonio were members of the Italian brotherhood in good standing despite controlling organized crime in two cities. It's just that here we see the negative effects when the Assassins actually have control, and therefore let their minions run wild. It may well be Ezio's policies that started them on this path, as Ezio supported several ''very'' questionable people (such as Lorenzo de Medici and the Ottoman Empire) in his lifelong war with the Templar Order, not to mention the countless innocents that he killed in Derinkuyu.
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** I also don't think he missed it. The Assassin have proven that they will not listen and in fact have tried to kill Shay all before he encountered the Finnegans. So the Assassin have established themselves as Shay's enemy. I figured this was just Shay feeling out the Templar cause from the inside-out since he had only seen the Templar from an Assassin point of view.



** I found it odd, too, but I think the pre-release source of that info said it was because the Templars have no rule against it like the Assassins do. I still think it was a poor choice given the plot, though.

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** I found it odd, too, but I think the pre-release source of that info said it was because the Templars have no rule against it like the Assassins do. I still think it was a poor choice given the plot, though.though.
* What the heck happened to the Assassin Order in the colonies? They used to just associate with thieves, criminals, and pirates, but now they are the active majority amongst the Assassin ranks. With Achilles' off hand dismissal of Shay's concern about Precursor superweapons, it seems like the Assassin have adopted view that they are incapable of doing wrong as long as their actions are anti-Templar.
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** ''Does'' he miss it? I'm confused as to why most people think he didn't realize he was working against the Assassins. He had already trained with people using the same gang colors as the ones he slaughtered, already knew about Hope running the gangs, saw stalkers using Assassin techniques, saw the gang flag with the Assassin symbol on it, outright stated he suspected the [[spoiler:plot to poison civilians]] was Hope's work, knew that the Finnegan son and Gist were business partners of Monro and in the same "club" despite being non-military, and to top it off, he's wearing a freaking Templar cross on his chest. The letter from Monro seemed pretty casual about the Templar thing, Shay didn't act surprised about that part IIRC, so I was under the impression he had figured it out already (or had been told offscreen). It was strange to me that they wouldn't show him learning/piecing it together, but my first reaction to the scene was that Shay had already been told about the Templars. Remember all the hoops Lee had to jump through to get inducted? I figured that's what happened in the time skip.



** Shay believes he's responsible for [[spoiler: the Lisbon Earthquake]] so in his mind he's ALREADY killed innocents. That may be why he doesn't desynchronize like the others. In which case, it becomes FridgeBrilliance.

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** Shay believes he's responsible for [[spoiler: the Lisbon Earthquake]] so in his mind he's ALREADY killed innocents. That may be why he doesn't desynchronize like the others. In which case, it becomes FridgeBrilliance.FridgeBrilliance.
** I found it odd, too, but I think the pre-release source of that info said it was because the Templars have no rule against it like the Assassins do. I still think it was a poor choice given the plot, though.
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* On a similar note to the above, how did Shay miss [[spoiler: he was killing Assassins while trying to recover the Morrigan? They have all of the skills of his people and it's not like he doesn't know his ship is with them.]]
** Shay had just emerged from a near fatal encounter with the Assassin's, hell I'd be surprised if he HADN'T been a bit out of sorts after that kind of confrontation

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* ** On a similar note to the above, how did Shay miss [[spoiler: he was killing Assassins while trying to recover the Morrigan? They have all of the skills of his people and it's not like he doesn't know his ship is with them.]]
** *** Shay had just emerged from a near fatal encounter with the Assassin's, hell I'd be surprised if he HADN'T been a bit out of sorts after that kind of confrontation
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** Shay had just emerged from a near fatal encounter with the Assassin's, hell I'd be surprised if he HADN'T been a bit out of sorts after that kind of confrontation
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* Shay is the Assassin ''most'' concerned with not harming innocents yet is able to do it in gameplay without desynchronizing. What's that about?

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* Shay is the Assassin ''most'' concerned with not harming innocents yet is able to do it in gameplay without desynchronizing. What's that about?about?
** Shay believes he's responsible for [[spoiler: the Lisbon Earthquake]] so in his mind he's ALREADY killed innocents. That may be why he doesn't desynchronize like the others. In which case, it becomes FridgeBrilliance.
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* On a similar note to the above, how did Shay miss [[spoiler: he was killing Assassins while trying to recover the Morrigan? They have all of the skills of his people and it's not like he doesn't know his ship is with them.]]

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* On a similar note to the above, how did Shay miss [[spoiler: he was killing Assassins while trying to recover the Morrigan? They have all of the skills of his people and it's not like he doesn't know his ship is with them.]]]]
* Shay is the Assassin ''most'' concerned with not harming innocents yet is able to do it in gameplay without desynchronizing. What's that about?
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** When you are a well trained assassin bad-ass who can leap up an around buildings with cat-like graceI think you are allowed a bit of leeway with your course of action. Also, what open areas? The entire city was collapsing around him!

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** When you are a well trained assassin bad-ass who can leap up an around buildings with cat-like graceI think you are allowed a bit of leeway with your course of action. Also, what open areas? The entire city was collapsing around him!him!
* When Shay is trying to help the Finnegans by wiping out the local gang harassing them, how does he miss [[spoiler: all the Assassin paraphernalia about the place? Hell, their flag is the Assassin A.]]
* On a similar note to the above, how did Shay miss [[spoiler: he was killing Assassins while trying to recover the Morrigan? They have all of the skills of his people and it's not like he doesn't know his ship is with them.]]
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* During the [[spoiler: 1755 Lisbon Earthquake]] what do you think is the better strategy for survival? Find an open clearing away from any collapsing buildings or run through several hundred of them at top speed?

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* During the [[spoiler: 1755 Lisbon Earthquake]] what do you think is the better strategy for survival? Find an open clearing away from any collapsing buildings or run through several hundred of them at top speed?speed?
**When you are a well trained assassin bad-ass who can leap up an around buildings with cat-like graceI think you are allowed a bit of leeway with your course of action. Also, what open areas? The entire city was collapsing around him!
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* During the [[spoiler: 1755 Lisbon Earthquake]] what do you think is the better strategy for survival? Find an open clearing away from any collapsing buildings or run through several hundred of them at top speed?

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