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* Do we ever get an in-universe reason why Shay is never seen or mentioned outside of Rogue? Obviously he doesn't show up in AC3 because Rogue wasn't planned when 3 was in development but Unity was in development at the same time and there's even a complimentary scene at the end of Rogue that matches up to the beginning of Unity showing that[[spoiler:Shay was the one who killed Charles Dorian at Versailles]]. Shay was in Paris in 1776 so we can write him out of AC3 for at least a few months considering travel times and all that, but Connor was active for years and Shay presumably didn't care that he was killing off Shay's Templar brothers in the Colonies. And for all of Arno's angst about his father being killed while he was in the next room as a child, Arno apparently never learns that Shay killed his father, nor does he care to keep looking after a certain point in Unity.

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* Do we ever get an in-universe reason why Shay is never seen or mentioned outside of Rogue? Obviously he doesn't show up in AC3 VideoGame/AssassinsCreedIII because Rogue wasn't planned when 3 was in development but Unity was in development at the same time and there's even a complimentary scene at the end of Rogue that matches up to the beginning of Unity showing that[[spoiler:Shay was the one who killed Charles Dorian at Versailles]]. Shay was in Paris in 1776 so we can write him out of AC3 [=AC3=] for at least a few months considering travel times and all that, but Connor was active for years and Shay presumably didn't care that he was killing off Shay's Templar brothers in the Colonies. And for all of Arno's angst about his father being killed while he was in the next room as a child, Arno apparently never learns that Shay killed his father, nor does he care to keep looking after a certain point in Unity.


* Do we ever get an universe reason why Shay is never seen or mentioned outside of Rogue? Obviously he doesn't show up in AC3 because Rogue wasn't planned when 3 was in development but Unity was in development at the same time and there's even a complimentary scene at the end of Rogue that matches up to the beginning of Unity showing that[[spoiler:Shay was the one who killed Charles Dorian at Versailles]]. Shay was in Paris in 1776 so we can write him out of AC3 for at least a few months considering travel times and all that, but Connor was active for years and Shay presumably didn't care that he was killing off Shay's Templar brothers in the Colonies. And for all of Arno's angst about his father being killed while he was in the next room as a child, Arno apparently never learns that Shay killed his father, nor does he care to keep looking after a certain point in Unity.

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* Do we ever get an universe in-universe reason why Shay is never seen or mentioned outside of Rogue? Obviously he doesn't show up in AC3 because Rogue wasn't planned when 3 was in development but Unity was in development at the same time and there's even a complimentary scene at the end of Rogue that matches up to the beginning of Unity showing that[[spoiler:Shay was the one who killed Charles Dorian at Versailles]]. Shay was in Paris in 1776 so we can write him out of AC3 for at least a few months considering travel times and all that, but Connor was active for years and Shay presumably didn't care that he was killing off Shay's Templar brothers in the Colonies. And for all of Arno's angst about his father being killed while he was in the next room as a child, Arno apparently never learns that Shay killed his father, nor does he care to keep looking after a certain point in Unity.

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[[folder: Shay in AC3 and Unity]]
* Do we ever get an universe reason why Shay is never seen or mentioned outside of Rogue? Obviously he doesn't show up in AC3 because Rogue wasn't planned when 3 was in development but Unity was in development at the same time and there's even a complimentary scene at the end of Rogue that matches up to the beginning of Unity showing that[[spoiler:Shay was the one who killed Charles Dorian at Versailles]]. Shay was in Paris in 1776 so we can write him out of AC3 for at least a few months considering travel times and all that, but Connor was active for years and Shay presumably didn't care that he was killing off Shay's Templar brothers in the Colonies. And for all of Arno's angst about his father being killed while he was in the next room as a child, Arno apparently never learns that Shay killed his father, nor does he care to keep looking after a certain point in Unity.

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*** Was there however ever stated that the epicenter was in the church? If thats some geological infrastructure "holding the Earth together", the artifact shay disturbed could be simply interface and the vault a control room. When disturbed, it could have triggered some reaction in enormous underground facilities that were in the epicenter area and 18th century people had no possible clue of.


** Shay is no longer a member of the Assassins, so he's not bound by their second tenet: "stay your blade from the flesh of an innocent."

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** Shay is no longer a member of the Assassins, so he's not bound by their second first tenet: "stay your blade from the flesh of an innocent."


** The answer is simple: GameplayAndStorySegregation. Plus it has been seen before by Altair, as a reward for completing AC1.

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** The answer is simple: GameplayAndStorySegregation. Plus it has been seen before by Altair, as a reward for completing AC1.''VideoGame/AssassinsCreedI''.


** Shay is no longer a member of the Assassins, so he's not bound by their second tenet: "stay your blade from the flesh of an innocent

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** Shay is no longer a member of the Assassins, so he's not bound by their second tenet: "stay your blade from the flesh of an innocentinnocent."
** Plus, Shay's story is being relived using an Animus directly linked to the Abstergo database. A Templar-based company trying to sway people to their side (while also keeping those chosen to be Animus guinea pigs in line) would have little problems with stroking the player's dark side a little bit. The more enjoyable the Animus is for the worker, the more they'll keep coming back.....and the higher the chance they'll make an important discovery....



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** Shay is no longer a member of the Assassins, so he's not bound by their second tenet: "stay your blade from the flesh of an innocent



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* Speaking of which, is it ever explained why the Assassins are so hell bent on killing Ben Franklin in Paris? I thought Franklin was rather well regarded by them, even if he didn't realize just who they were. I know they're never technically called such but they act like Assassins and it's not like Shay has referred to Assassins using the generic "Criminals" before. Assuming of course it wasn't just an excuse to lead into Shay's final scene.

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* Speaking of which, is it ever explained why the Assassins are so hell bent on killing Ben Franklin in Paris? I thought Franklin was rather well regarded by them, even if he didn't realize just who they were. I know they're never technically called such but they act like Assassins and it's not like Shay has hasn't referred to Assassins using the generic "Criminals" before. Assuming of course it wasn't just an excuse to lead into Shay's final scene.



** I think the writers kind of forgot about that plot point by the time they got to the end and hoped everyone else would as well. Kind of a pity, considering after ACIV, Ubisoft seems to have stopped caring about the Juno plot that they spent a lot of time setting up in III and IV.

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** I think the writers kind of forgot about that plot point by the time they got to the end and hoped everyone else would as well. Kind It contributes to the feeling that Rogue kind got shafted on resources which instead went to Unity, which is a bit of a pity, considering after ACIV, Ubisoft seems to have stopped caring about the Juno plot that they spent a lot of time setting up in III and IV.



* So, in the final mission, [[spoiler:Shay kills Arno's dad, who's dying words are "Connor and the American revolution have undone your work", prompting Shay to respond that the Templars will start their own revolution(in France).]] I can doing it as a lead in to Unity, but the scene takes place in late 1776. The American Revolution was just kicking off and the Colonial Army hadn't exactly been doing great that year(with Trenton probably not even happening yet), while Connor was probably just starting his revenge spree through the Colonial Templar ranks(IIRC, he might have killed one of Haytham's buddies by that point). Isn't Charles being a bit premature in saying the Templars are finished in North America?

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* So, in the final mission, [[spoiler:Shay kills Arno's dad, who's dying words are "Connor and the American revolution have undone your work", prompting Shay to respond that the Templars will start their own revolution(in France).]] I can see doing it as a lead in to Unity, but the scene takes place in late 1776. The American Revolution was just kicking off and the Colonial Army hadn't exactly been doing great that year(with Trenton probably not even happening yet), while Connor was probably just starting his revenge spree through the Colonial Templar ranks(IIRC, he might have killed one of Haytham's buddies by that point). Isn't Charles being a bit premature in saying the Templars are finished in North America?


** What Charles Dorian is saying is that "Connor has undone your work" by rebuilding the Brotherhood. Now the Declaration was signed on July 4, 1776 and we see that declaration cutscene after Thomas Hickey's assassination. So by the time Charles Lee said this, America is declaring independence, Haytham's plans for a StagedPopulistUprising have gone for a toss, Connor has recruited three new assassins, started rebuilding the homestead and via Naval destroyed several British ships. So Connor has, in Pierre Bellec's words, rebuilt the Brotherhood from "nothing to power", negating all of Shay's achievements in Rogue.

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** What Charles Dorian is saying is that "Connor has undone your work" by rebuilding the Brotherhood. Now the Declaration was signed on July 4, 1776 and we see that declaration cutscene after Thomas Hickey's assassination. So by the time Charles Lee Dorian said this, America is declaring independence, Haytham's plans for a StagedPopulistUprising have gone for a toss, Connor has recruited three new assassins, started rebuilding the homestead and via Naval destroyed several British ships. So Connor has, in Pierre Bellec's words, rebuilt the Brotherhood from "nothing to power", negating all of Shay's achievements in Rogue.

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** It's mostly Shay's fault because he doesn't discuss specifics. He doesn't mention the cave, the object, and the reactions which happen. He straight up accuses Achilles of deliberate mass murder which Achilles would naturally find ludicrous. To Achilles' ears, Shay sounds like a guy gone nuts after a traumatic incident. Then Shay decides, without discussing anything with Liam or privately with Hope to steal it. That's the other problem, if Shay wanted to prevent anyone from using the Manuscript why doesn't he burn the manuscript or break the box?



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** It's not explained clearly, so obviously it's just an excuse. The Paris section is weird since it's not made clear why Templar Shay can't get into Rogue by appealing to the Grand Master de la Serre who as per the prologue of Unity was present there. Shay's reference to "Starting a Revolution" indicates that he's allied with the Revolutionary Templars. So most likely you can infer that the Rev. Templars tell him to find Franklin while they stage a FalseFlagOperation and hire criminals to attack him so Shay can look a hero. That probably makes the most sense. Since the French Assassins as per Unity's database are friends with Franklin and wouldn't do this attack.


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** From a Doylist perspective, Ubisoft made it an AssPull for shock effect and didn't think deeply about World Building. From a Watsonian perspective, the Church was likely built on top of earlier structures like most European churches. The church is a real church called [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmo_Convent_(Lisbon) Carmo Convent]] which like the Hiroshima Dome became an emblem of the earthquake in real-life. That church was built in 1389 so the original construction crew might have simply missed a spot or figured it's just a hollow point that's not worth risking someone's life to investigate and simply covered over it. It still makes zero sense because that device is not near enough the the Earth's crust to actually cause an earthquake like that, and the real-life epicenter was not in Lisbon but islands off the coast of Portugal. But then like I said, AssPull.


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** Maybe the First Civ while building some of their fancy technology and architecture were creating seismic disturbances (since many of their templers have {{Bizarrchitecture}} and are usually underground and these pivots are some kind of anchors connected to the main temple. The Box might have been a device used for construction, a blueprint on where to put all the pivot points to make their structures and regulate seismic activities to normal. My main issue with the earthquake box is...if Shay caused one by messing with the Box, what about other earthquakes that followed in the 19th and 20th Century...were they done by Abstergo. Is there such a thing as natural earthquakes in this universe. Anyway, AssPull is the only explanation that works well for me.


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** What Charles Dorian is saying is that "Connor has undone your work" by rebuilding the Brotherhood. Now the Declaration was signed on July 4, 1776 and we see that declaration cutscene after Thomas Hickey's assassination. So by the time Charles Lee said this, America is declaring independence, Haytham's plans for a StagedPopulistUprising have gone for a toss, Connor has recruited three new assassins, started rebuilding the homestead and via Naval destroyed several British ships. So Connor has, in Pierre Bellec's words, rebuilt the Brotherhood from "nothing to power", negating all of Shay's achievements in Rogue.


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[[folder:Connection to Unity]]

*So, in the final mission, [[spoiler:Shay kills Arno's dad, who's dying words are "Connor and the American revolution have undone your work", prompting Shay to respond that the Templars will start their own revolution(in France).]] I can doing it as a lead in to Unity, but the scene takes place in late 1776. The American Revolution was just kicking off and the Colonial Army hadn't exactly been doing great that year(with Trenton probably not even happening yet), while Connor was probably just starting his revenge spree through the Colonial Templar ranks(IIRC, he might have killed one of Haytham's buddies by that point). Isn't Charles being a bit premature in saying the Templars are finished in North America?

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