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**** ^^^ You two DO remember that that was the last line in the poem, yes? Really, initially the reader could just assume that it was a reference to that, given how there is a murderer who is running around killing people based on the poem. Of course, given how everybody knows the ending at this point, it's rather irrelevant.




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*** Also, if EVERYTHING somehow went wrong and one or even two people survived- Wargrave is still alive. He has a massive advantage of surprise. I'm pretty sure that he could take care of Lombard and Vera (Or possibly even Lombard and Blore, but the chances of BOTH surviving, particularly with the bear, are slim to none) by himself.

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**** A) ''Plenty'' of people are offended by that kind of rap music and judging the whole world by one very specific audience is ridiculous. B) Black musicians using the term carries an entirely different connotation than a white author doing so. C) My high school performed the play and I know several people who were assigned the novel -- neither of which would be possible if the original title was maintained. The title carries no significance to the story in any way, which makes it not only offensive but '''''useless''''' and offensive. Please note that Lombard's casual racism is left intact since that ''actually impacts the story''. Damn publishers, deciding that maybe society should start acting like everyone has feelings and realizing that there are a lot of people who won't support their company by purchasing something that upholds casual institutional racism.




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*** It can hardly be called a spoiler when the rhyme appears in chapter 2 and the whole of chapter 3 is realizing they've been lured to an isolated location with the aforementioned rhyme prominently displayed in nearly every room in the house. The intent is clear very early, and intent does not imply success.
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** Agreed. The title used a racist word because the name of the existing nursery rhyme invoked happened to have it as well, not out of racism of its own. Had the rhyme been called "[[MontyPython Ethel the Aadvark Goes Quantity Surveying]]" then that would have been the title of the book as well, it was just a matter of happenstance. Not to mention that "And Then There Were None" is a much more spoilerific title.

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** Agreed. The title used a racist word because the name of the existing nursery rhyme invoked happened to have it as well, not out of racism of its own. Had the rhyme been called "[[MontyPython "[[MontyPythonsFlyingCircus Ethel the Aadvark Goes Quantity Surveying]]" then that would have been the title of the book as well, it was just a matter of happenstance. Not to mention that "And Then There Were None" is a much more spoilerific title.
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correcting a very unfortunate spelling error


*** Well, considering that black rapers tend to overuse this particular word to no end in their songs and nobody seems to be offended by that, what would be wrong in keeping it in the title of classic, well-known crime novel?

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*** Well, considering that black rapers rappers tend to overuse this particular word to no end in their songs and nobody seems to be offended by that, what would be wrong in keeping it in the title of classic, well-known crime novel?
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*** Well, considering that black rapers tend to overuse this particular word to no end in their songs and nobody seems to be offended by that, what would be wrong in keeping it in the title of classic, well-known crime novel?
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*** More than one member of the party was keeping a diary. William Blore and Vera Claythorne's journals would have said that Wargrave was shot dead in the drawing room. The pool of blood beneath Wargrave's head by the time his really-dead body is found would be just another bizarre, inconsistent detail.



** This goes back to the British class system of the time: Rogers (shown to be an intensely conventional, unimaginative man for just this reason) 'knows his place', and it isn't with the company, regardless of the situation. Granted, this is probably dependent more on Christie's readers accepting this stereotype than the validity of the type itself.

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** This goes back to the British class system of the time: Rogers (shown (who is repeatedly shown to be an intensely conventional, conventional and unimaginative man for just this reason) man) 'knows his place', and it isn't with the company, regardless of the situation. Granted, this is probably dependent more on Christie's readers accepting this stereotype than the validity of the type itself.



** Well, she started out as a very strong character, but then it was revealed later in the novel that she [[{{Yandere}} wasn't all that stable to begin with]] and she felt ''tremendous'' guilt over what she had done. Not to mention she had to watch eight people around her die within four days before being forced to kill one herself (which would drive ANYONE to madness). This, combined with the fact that the weekend was rapidly approaching the anniversary on the day she killed a little boy (and it's implied this was part of the reason the murderer chose that particular weekend: to further drive the point home to Vera), was what [[DrivenToSuicide ultimately drove her to her complete and total breakdown at the end.]]

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** Well, she started out as a very strong character, but then it was revealed later in the novel that she [[{{Yandere}} wasn't all that stable to begin with]] and she felt ''tremendous'' guilt over what she had done. Not to mention she had to watch eight people around her die within four days before being forced to kill one herself (which would drive ANYONE be sufficient to madness). to traumatize anyone). This, combined with the fact that the weekend was rapidly approaching the anniversary on of the day she killed a little boy (and it's implied this was part of the reason the murderer chose that particular weekend: to further drive the point home to Vera), was what [[DrivenToSuicide ultimately drove her to her complete and total breakdown at the end.]]



** Remember, the judge kills his victims in order of increasing moral culpability, so the first few ''had'' to be less flagrantly to blame than the rest. Emily is the ''least'' remorseful of the ones who'd killed people through indirect action (withholding medicine, giving suicidal orders, steering a jury) rather than direct and willful crimes (stealing supplies, planting evidence, leading a poor swimmer to the beach). Anthony Marston, the least remorseful of all, goes first because the Judge has pegged him for a complete sociopath, incapable of having his nerves racked by guilt and fear.

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*** The stage version pushes these factors to the forefront: Emily admits to Vera that she not only threw Beatrice Taylor out of her home, but gave her a TheReasonYouSuckSpeech that may have been the deciding factor in pushing her to suicide. Emily, of course, hastens to point out that ''she'' herself did nothing wrong, or at least nothing that acted against her conscience -- it was ''Beatrice'' who got pregnant out of wedlock, and it was ''Beatrice'' who chose to kill herself.
** Remember, the judge U.N. Owen kills his victims in order of increasing moral culpability, so the first few ''had'' to be less flagrantly to blame than the rest. Emily is the ''least'' remorseful of the ones who'd killed people through indirect action (withholding medicine, giving suicidal orders, steering a jury) rather than direct and willful crimes (stealing supplies, planting evidence, leading a poor swimmer to the beach). Anthony Marston, the least remorseful of all, goes first because the Judge Owen has pegged him for a complete sociopath, incapable of having his nerves racked by guilt and fear.



** They don't know for sure that neither of them could be the killer; what they do know for sure, or at least think they know, is that they're the only people left alive on the island. Their natural assumption -- as made clear in the text -- is that Blore's death by falling statuette was 'a trick' rigged up earlier.

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** They don't know for sure that neither of them could be the killer; what they do know for sure, or at least think they know, is that they're the only people left alive on the island. Their natural assumption -- as made clear in the text -- is that Blore's death by falling statuette was 'a trick' rigged up earlier.earlier; if that's true, then one of the survivors must be U.N. Owen, and Vera and Philip both think: "Well, it's not me, ''so''..."
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* Wargrave's entire plot was based around the characters being stuck on the island, but whether he knew it or not, it required a storm to hit on the night they arrived and lift on the last day. But of course the Judge's plot had to be set in motion so far in advance there was no way to ensure that a storm would hit on the required days.
** Wargrave's man told the villagers not to come to the island because it was an experiment, but the boatman ignored him and came anyway as soon as the storm lifted.

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* Wargrave's The killer's entire plot was based around the characters being stuck on the island, but whether he knew it or not, it required a storm to hit on the night they arrived and lift on the last day. But of course the Judge's plot U.N. Owen's plans had to be set in motion so far in advance there was no way to ensure that a storm would hit on the required days.
** Wargrave's Owen's man told the villagers not to come to the island because it was an experiment, but the boatman ignored him and came anyway as soon as the storm lifted.
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** Lombard, as usual, doesn't really give a shit, and the scene's dialogue reflects this.
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** Possibly he feared revenge by the families of the men he'd left to die? We don't know anything about them, so it's possible that they came from a culture where it's common for avenging relatives to pursue a vendetta at all costs. He read the note, and jumped to the (false) conclusion that "Mr. Owen" was going to ''torture'' him to death for his betrayal, and/or kill everyone he cared about along with him, making suicide the only way to avoid a worse fate.

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** Heck, this troper was surprised he didn't simply shoot Blore, Armstrong ''and'' Vera as soon as he got his gun back. He's the one who'd abandoned a whole group of men to starve to death, after all, and had originally come to the island expecting he might have to use the weapon.















** And the alternative is for her to wait around on an island full of corpses for the police. She knows she'd be the prime suspect, and that the question of the little boy's death would also get dragged back into the public light if she's charged with this new round of murders.



** The fact that she'd turned her back on the servant girl out of self-righteous intolerance could well have been the deciding factor, as it made Miss Brent a HolierThanThou hypocrite: one who callously consigned someone who desperately needed her help to despair, in the name of what's ''supposed'' to be a compassionate faith. Plus, the servant's unborn baby died too, and it certainly shouldn't have paid for its mother's faux pas.

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** The fact that she'd turned her back on the servant girl out of self-righteous intolerance could well have been the deciding factor, as it made Miss Brent a HolierThanThou hypocrite: one who callously consigned someone who desperately needed her help to despair, in the name of what's ''supposed'' to be a compassionate faith. Plus, the servant's unborn baby ''unborn baby'' died too, and it certainly shouldn't have paid for its mother's faux pas.






** This situation's called Hostile Suspition Chain. B knows V isn't a killer, but he's not sure if V knows that ''B knows'' that V isn't the killer. Same on the other side.

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** This situation's called Hostile Suspition Suspicion Chain. B knows V isn't a killer, but he's not sure if V knows that ''B knows'' that V isn't the killer. Same on the other side.side.



** ''Ten Little Yidies'', ''Ten Little Jhonnies(19th centriy Chinese immigrant in Britain)'', there's a variation of any race if you want to find one. Seriously.
*** Actually, I was reffering to the first one, it's just that [[InSovietRussiaTropeMocksYou in Soviet Russia]] the name of the novel was completely deprieved of any derogatory undertone and sounds like "Ten little negroes". I saw the name written like this in the Web and assumed it was like this initially.I couldn't imagine that they would feature a derogatory variant of the word in the name of a book for no reason.

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** ''Ten Little Yidies'', ''Ten Little Jhonnies(19th Jhonnies (19th centriy Chinese immigrant in Britain)'', there's a variation of any race if you want to find one. Seriously.
*** Actually, I was reffering refering to the first one, it's just that [[InSovietRussiaTropeMocksYou in Soviet Russia]] the name of the novel was completely deprieved of any derogatory undertone and sounds like "Ten little negroes". I saw the name written like this in the Web and assumed it was like this initially.I couldn't imagine that they would feature a derogatory variant of the word in the name of a book for no reason.


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** But in the book, he felt very little, if any, remorse for his crime at all. He was one of few guests to openly admit to his accusation being true, justifying it with "Self-preservation is man's first duty". What would he have had to kill himself over? The judge in the movie said the letter had sounded "threatening"...of what?
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*** [[SarcasmMode Oh, how terrible that they change something that doesn't affect the plot at all out of a desire to make it less racist. Grow up.]]
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** This situation's called Hostile Suspition Chain. B knows V isn't a killer, but he's not sure if V knows that ''B knows'' that V isn't the killer. Same on the other side.
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** ''Ten Little Yidies'', ''Ten Little Jhonnies(19th centriy Chinese immigrant in Britain)'', there's a variation of any race if you want to find one. Seriously.
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fits :)


*** Actually, I was reffering to the first one, it's just that in Soviet Russia the name of the novel was completely deprieved of any derogatory undertone and sounds like "Ten little negroes". I saw the name written like this in the Web and assumed it was like this initially.I couldn't imagine that they would feature a derogatory variant of the word in the name of a book for no reason.

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*** Actually, I was reffering to the first one, it's just that [[InSovietRussiaTropeMocksYou in Soviet Russia Russia]] the name of the novel was completely deprieved of any derogatory undertone and sounds like "Ten little negroes". I saw the name written like this in the Web and assumed it was like this initially.I couldn't imagine that they would feature a derogatory variant of the word in the name of a book for no reason.
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* In the movies, the real Lombard killed himself after receiving the letter from "Mr. Owen", and Morley impersonates Lombard to get to the bottom of it. But why would the letter prompt Lombard to kill himself? The whole point of the letter was to goad the victims to the island without raising any suspicion of the real reason for the invite.

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* In the movies, the real Lombard killed himself after receiving the letter from "Mr. Owen", and Morley impersonates Lombard to get to the bottom of it. But why would the letter prompt Lombard to kill himself? The whole point of the letter was to goad the victims to the island without raising any suspicion of the real reason for the invite.
invite.
** He caught on better than Wargrave hoped, obviously. We never hear the exact contents of the note in the movie.
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** Agreed. The title used a racist word because the name of the existing nursery rhyme invoked happened to have it as well, not out of racism of its own. Had the rhyme been called "[[MontyPython Ethel the Aadvark Goes Quantity Surveying]]" then that would have been the title of the book as well, it was just a matter of happenstance. Not to mention that "And Then There Were None" is a much more spoilerific title.
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** Would the police even know where he was "supposed" to have died?
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* In the movies, the real Lombard killed himself after receiving the letter from "Mr. Owen", and Morley impersonates Lombard to get to the bottom of it. But why would the letter prompt Lombard to kill himself? The whole point of the letter was to goad the victims to the island without raising any suspicion of the real reason for the invite.
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** In his message-in-a-bottle confession, Wargrave mentions that he was curious as to whether or not the last one standing would give into the atmosphere, and hang themselves, indicating that he was prepared if they didn't.

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*** Exactly. The generator's run down and they're relying on candles, and Armstrong is in fact the only one who gets a good look at the Judge before he directs the others to take the "corpse" up to Wargrave's room.



** The Sparknotes for this book says that Lombard had an old-fashioned view of women and thus didn't think that Vera would or could turn the tables on him like that.

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** The Sparknotes for this book says point out that Lombard had an old-fashioned view of women women, and thus didn't think that Vera would or could turn the tables on him like that.



* The inclusion of Emily Brent in the victims. The Rogers deliberately murdered their employer, Vera Claythorn drowned a young boy, the General sent a man to his death, and Emily Brent fired a servant whose behavior had dissatisfied her. No, she wasn't very nice about it, but what she did is still a long way from the murder/manslaughter that the others had done. It is, in fact, hard to consider her primarily responsible for Beatrice Taylor's death (what about the girl's parents? or the guy who got her pregnant then abandoned her?)
** True, but it's clear that Miss Brent also knew her servant had been abandoned by both the baby's father and her parents; instead of responding with compassion and assistance, she turned her out -- with no 'character', or reference, which in combination with the baby meant she'd effectively made the girl unemployable. Thus a strong case can be made that Miss Brent represented the girl's last hope, and that her actions were what tipped her over the edge to suicide.

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* The inclusion of Emily Brent in the victims. The Rogers deliberately murdered their employer, Vera Claythorn Claythorne drowned a young boy, the General sent a man to his death, and Emily Brent fired a servant whose behavior had dissatisfied her. No, she wasn't very nice about it, but what she did is still a long way from the murder/manslaughter that the others had done. It is, in fact, hard to consider her primarily responsible for Beatrice Taylor's death (what about the girl's parents? or the guy who got her pregnant then abandoned her?)
** True, but it's clear that Miss Brent also knew her servant had been abandoned by both the baby's father and her parents; instead of responding with compassion and assistance, she turned her out and refused to give a reference -- with no 'character', or reference, which which, in combination with the baby baby, meant she'd effectively made the girl unemployable. Thus a strong case can be made that Miss Brent represented the girl's last hope, and that her actions were what tipped her over the edge to suicide.



** Remember, the judge kills his victims in order of increasing moral culpability, so the first few ''had'' to be less flagrantly to blame than the rest. Emily is the ''least'' remorseful of the ones who'd killed people through indirect action (witholding medicine, giving suicidal orders, steering a jury) rather than direct and willful crimes (stealing supplies, planting evidence, leading a poor swimmer to the beach).

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** Remember, the judge kills his victims in order of increasing moral culpability, so the first few ''had'' to be less flagrantly to blame than the rest. Emily is the ''least'' remorseful of the ones who'd killed people through indirect action (witholding (withholding medicine, giving suicidal orders, steering a jury) rather than direct and willful crimes (stealing supplies, planting evidence, leading a poor swimmer to the beach).beach). Anthony Marston, the least remorseful of all, goes first because the Judge has pegged him for a complete sociopath, incapable of having his nerves racked by guilt and fear.



** In the novel it was made pretty clear the last 3 deaths were not really part of any plan. Wargrave just knew that, since they had a gun, they would likelly to kill each other at some point and just waited to an opportunity to drop the "bear" in the first who passed by.

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** In the novel it was made pretty clear the last 3 deaths were not really part of any plan. Wargrave just knew that, since they had a gun, they would likelly likely to kill each other at some point and just waited to an opportunity to drop the "bear" in the first who passed by.
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**** In Spanish "negro" is equivalent to two English words, "black" and "negro", which makes it a bit odd that one is still a fairly acceptable term for black people in the U.S. while the other isn't.
** Their retcons annoy me. First they change it to ''Ten Little Indians'', and then to ''And Then There Were None?'' Can't they just accept that the title is an artifact of the times and move the fuck on?

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** Technically, Lombard isn't really the ''villain''; he's more of an [[AntiHero Anti Hero]] or at the very least a [[HeroicSociopath heroic sociopath.]] But I see what you mean.

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** Technically, Lombard isn't really the ''villain''; he's more of an [[AntiHero Anti Hero]] or at the very least a [[HeroicSociopath heroic sociopath.]] But I see what you mean.mean.
** YMMV. I think that the original film version's depiction of (not-)Lombard is one of the most awesome characters ever. Nothing bothers him, it's almost like he knows he's in a story. And he's pretty funny too. And clever.
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** He's a judge, and therefore capable of accessing legally any number of legal records of past crimes. He probably found out about all the crimes secondhand this way, which ''accounts'' for him making two mistakes.
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** Wargrave is a good actor (and even a good voice imitator), so I think he can play dead convincingly. And how good a look did anyone but the doc get at that wound mark? He probably would have kept anyone from getting too close and the lighting was dim IIRC.
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*** Vera probably hasn't been a lifeguard in many, many years. I think she's out of shape.

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*** What is true in US is not true in the rest of the world. At last in Latin America the term 'negro' is fairly acceptable one (not "politically correct", but not derogatory either. I don't know how things went in Russia, but in Brazil the name change(at 2008) was considered unnecessary.




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** In the novel it was made pretty clear the last 3 deaths were not really part of any plan. Wargrave just knew that, since they had a gun, they would likelly to kill each other at some point and just waited to an opportunity to drop the "bear" in the first who passed by.
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*** In addition, Vera is a distraction at the moment and the killer is supposedly upstairs killing her. If they rushed to see if the killer was there, they may not have noticed Wargrave was not with them. Armstrong was in on Wargrave's plan and was the main suspect, so he did not question it.
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*** "Negro" isn't exactly an accepted term anymore either, at least in America.

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