History Fridge / ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse

* There is a good reason why BossBanter is prevalent as GameplayAndStoryIntegration in this game as well as in ''IV''. According to [[spoiler: Stephen]], humans were designed by the Axiom/Great Will to be able to derive faith in gods and turn it into truth. Denying this faith is what allows them to have the potential to kill gods. Since most bosses that Nanashi and Flynn encounter are gods in their own right, by responding correctly to their BossBanter, the player can actually make the bosses vulnerable enough in a myriad of ways to be defeated.

** [[spoiler: Nanashi and Flynn are messiahs sent down by the Axiom, also known as the Great Will, and the Axiom in this universe is very much pro-humanity. They'll be fine, as [[FridgeBrilliance depowering and slaying YHVH is exactly what the Axiom wanted]].]]

* Believe it or not, there is a ''very good reason'' as to why [[spoiler: Danu replaced the rebellious Dagda with a more submissive version of himself in the Bonds route.]] Back in ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne'', a Loa comments that demons sacrificed their ability to change and grow in exchange for a form of immortality. Dagda is so committed to his goals that he is unable to change his relent or change his mind, thus forcing [[spoiler: Danu is forced to create a replacement for him during the climatic battle.]]

* When the party is imprisoned, they break out by having Nanashi summon his demons to break the bars. The whole scene is designed to address the oddities of previous game imprisonments; namely, what's keeping the very powerful protagonists from simply busting out? The previous games all have the protagonists imprisoned by a small group of people with all their gear, magic, and demons, and yet they need to go through a trial or use trickery to get out. Apocalypse has the protagonists be arrested in front of an endgame boss, surrounded by ''all of the Samurai''. It also establishes that their weapons have been confiscated, including their smartphones. The party's only offensive magic user (Isabeau) has been imprisoned elsewhere [[spoiler: and Hallelujah doesn't want to reveal his magic powers unless he has to]]. Nanashi is the only one who can get them out because he doesn't need a smartphone to summon demons.

* Nozomi is a Hunter who specializes in guns, and does photography on the side. Guns and cameras have some similarities; you can shoot a camera or a gun, they both require a steady hand and aim, some aiming tricks apply to both, some cameras and guns have crosshairs, and sometimes they can resemble each other.

* The BrokenAesop of going on about the importance of bonds, yet [[spoiler:having the party turn on you in the Massacre ending]], is only a BrokenAesop if you play the whole thing straight. This is EXACTLY what Dagda was talking about, how dependency and clinging to others makes them weak: YOU are the deciding factor for everything (I mean, how else would you explain how everyone except you in your party can get wiped if [[spoiler: you accept YHVH's final offer to become his servant)]] if bonds really meant so much?), and they're influencing you into acting in a way that isn't really how you feel. You're only picking the moral choice out of an obligation. They need YOU, but do you need THEM? After all, ThePowerOfFriendship is only played straight if the feeling's truly mutual...and you DO kill them fairly easily, even though you're outnumbered...

* The BrokenAesop of going on about the importance of bonds, yet [[spoiler:having the party turn on you in the Massacre ending]], is only a BrokenAesop if you play the whole thing straight. This is EXACTLY what Dagda was talking about, how dependency and clinging to others makes them weak: YOU are the deciding factor for everything (I mean, how else would you explain how everyone except you in your party can get wiped if [[spoiler: you accept YHVH's final offer to become his servant)]] if bonds really meant so much?), and they're influencing you into acting in a way that isn't really how you feel. You're only picking the moral choice out of an obligation. They need YOU, but do you need THEM? After all, the ThePowerOfFriendship is only played straight if the feeling's truly mutual...and you DO kill them fairly easily, even though you're outnumbered...

* Nanashi was found as a baby inside the Sky Tower, and was implied to be from Mikado. Except the Minotaur kills anyone who tries to pass through the gate... except the Minotaur is Akira's demon. He probably recognized Nanashi as Akira's reincarnation, and chose to let him pass.

* Where are all the fairies getting their Magnetite from? Nozomi can't possibly produce enough for all of them. Are they secretly eating humans or taking Reds?

* The BrokenAesop of going on about the importance of bonds, yet [[spoiler:having the party turn on you in the Massacre ending]], is only a BrokenAesop if you play the whole thing straight. This is EXACTLY what Dagda was talking about, how dependency and clinging to others makes them weak: YOU are the deciding factor for everything (I mean, how else would you explain how everyone except you in your party can get wiped if [[spoiler: you accept YHVH's final offer to become his servant)]] if bonds really meant so much?), and they're influencing you into acting in a way that isn't really how you feel. You're only picking the moral choice out of an obligation. They need YOU, but do you need THEM? After all, the ThePowerOfFriendship is only played straight if the feeling's truly mutual...

* The BrokenAesop of going on about the importance of bonds, yet [[spoiler:having the party turn on you in the Massacre ending]], is only a BrokenAesop if you play the whole thing straight. This is EXACTLY what Dagda was talking about, how dependency and clinging to others makes them weak: YOU are the deciding factor for everything (I mean, how else would you explain how everyone except you in your party can get wiped if [[spoiler: you accept YHVH's final offer to become his servant)]] if bonds really meant so much?), and they're influencing you into acting in a way that isn't really how you feel. You're only picking the moral choice out of an obligation. They need YOU, but do you need THEM...?

* Both Morality Heads, Lucifer in particular, often refers to Flynn as a false messiah after rescuing him from the Divine Powers. Perhaps [[spoiler:a symbol to the fact that the Flynn you rescued was Shesha in disguise, and they both noticed that?]]

* In a very early scene, Manabu has his demon out, but then has to return it to the phone because it's running out of battery. This is small, but significant. The reason why you don't see people with their demons out all the time is because the Demon Summoning Program eats up the battery. [[spoiler: When the Mandala hits, going to the guy with the enslaved Dwarf in Kinshicho shows that if the demon is already summoned, they aren't un-summoned. Tokyo probably survived because there were some hunters with their demons already out.]] Gauntlets are probably a better version of the smartphone that doesn't require power, because Mikado most likely doesn't have electricity. Flynn in the previous game could have his demons out all the time without worrying about power. Nanashi doesn't actually need the smartphone because he's using Dagda's power (presumably, he's using the phone as an interface), so he can always have his demons out. When Asahi and Hallelujah summon their demons for support during battle, they summon them for one attack before returning them (like a Persona). Flynn and Nanashi get one turn per demon, but Asahi and Hallelujah need to conserve power and so use up one turn where the former get two. Isabeau dodges the issue by not having any demons for some reason. [[spoiler: The fact that Abe has his demons out suggests that he's not using a phone. He's probably either just their boss, or summoning them the same way the Demi Fiend did.]]

* Major plot spoilers follow, especially for the Massacre ending. Dagda is always evasive on his goals, and withholds valuable information up to the last second. He isn't just being mysterious; this is vital to his endgame. By remaining silent, Dagda is [[spoiler: [[SecretTestOfCharacter testing and training Nanashi]] to ensure that he can become the Creator God. Dagda's endgame is to kill YHVH and everyone else in the universe, make a new universe for a free humanity, and install his Godslayer as the Creator God. But the most important thing is to make sure that his Godslayer will be a good Creator God, or else there would be no point. The Godslayer must share Dagda's vision, and be willing to kill for it, but also can't be as evil as YHVH.]]
** First, if Dagda starts off with a speech about how horrible the world is and explains why [[spoiler:it is necessary to kill everyone and make a new one, it would probably be bad if the soul accepted. If the Godslayer is willing to kill a ton of people because someone made a speech, they're either extremely impressionable or very evil, and wouldn't be a good Creator God. Dagda only told Nanashi that the plan was to hijack the Cosmic Egg (and at this point, Nanashi already knew that this would kill everyone) at the last possible second, and after Nanashi had seen how corrupt the humans and demons were.]]
** Second, if Dagda instead opened with the benefits of becoming his Godslayer (besides being brought back to life), namely,[[spoiler: becoming the new Creator God of the universe, that would just lead to his Godslayer fighting to replace YHVH instead of for Dagda's vision. Again, that would make a terrible Creator God. Dagda only told Nanashi that he would be the God of the new world after Nanashi killed his friends, proving that he's fully devoted to the cause.]]

* Major plot spoilers follow, especially for the Massacre ending. Dagda is always evasive on his goals, and withholds valuable information up to the last second. He isn't just being mysterious; this is vital to his endgame. By remaining silent, Dagda is [[spoiler: [[SecretTestOfCharacter testing and training Nanashi]] to ensure that he can become the Creator God. Dagda's endgame is to kill YHVH and everyone else in the universe, make a new universe for a free humanity, and install his Godslayer as the Creator God. But the most important thing is to make sure that his Godslayer will be a good Creator God, or else there would be no point. The Godslayer must share Dagda's vision, and be willing to kill for it, but also can't be as evil as YHVH. Nanashi has to agree with Dagda, but he also has to see why Dagda wants to create a new world before he would know the details.]]
** First, if Dagda starts off with a speech about how horrible the world is and explains why [[spoiler:it is necessary to kill everyone and make a new one, his Godslayer can either accept or decline. If the Godslayer is willing to kill a ton of people because someone made a speech, they're either extremely impressionable or very evil, and wouldn't be a good Creator God. Dagda only told Nanashi that the plan was to hijack the Cosmic Egg (and at this point, Nanashi already knew that this would kill everyone) at the last possible second, and after Nanashi had seen how ]]

** Third, as evidenced by [[spoiler: Flynn, Dagda can bring people back to life as brainwashed slaves. Dagda can pull the PeoplePuppet card on Nanashi, but Nanashi has his own will and can always choose a different route.

But in order to do that, he has to make sure that his Godslayer is the right person. The new Creator God has to have the same vision of the new universe as he does, or else the new universe would be just as bad as the last. Dagda can't be up front about everything, or else he'd be stuck with someone who wouldn't be a good Creator God. If Dagda told Nanashi about the benefits of taking his route, that would result in a bad Creator. For all he knows, if he told him that siding with him would make him God, Nanashi would probably act based on his greed instead of genuine desire for a new universe. Dagda only outright tells him that he'll become the Creator God after he's killed all his friends for the sake of the new universe, proving that he's completely dedicated to the cause. Even the old universe's preservation is better than being ruled over by an unfit Creator.]]

** First, if Dagda started off with a speech about how horrible the world is and explained why [[spoiler: it is necessary to kill everyone and make a new one,

* Major plot spoilers follow, especially for the Massacre ending. Dagda is always evasive on his goals, and withholds valuable information up to the last second. He isn't just being mysterious; this actually ultimately helps his endgame. By remaining silent, Dagda is [[spoiler: [[SecretTestOfCharacter testing and training Nanashi]] to ensure that he can become the Creator God. Dagda's endgame is to kill YHVH, make a new universe for a free humanity, and install his Godslayer as the Creator God, with the side effect of killing everyone in the old universe. But in order to do that, he has to make sure that his Godslayer is the right person. The new Creator God has to have the same vision of the new universe as he does, or else the new universe would be just as bad as the last. Dagda can't be up front about everything, or else he'd be stuck with someone who wouldn't be a good Creator God. If Dagda told Nanashi about the benefits of taking his route, that would result in a bad Creator. For all he knows, if he told him that siding with him would make him God, Nanashi would probably act based on his greed instead of genuine desire for a new universe. Dagda only outright tells him that he'll become the Creator God after he's killed all his friends for the sake of the new universe, proving that he's completely dedicated to the cause. Even the old universe's preservation is better than being ruled over by an unfit Creator.]]

** [[spoiler: Nanashi and Flynn are messiahs sent down by the Axiom, also known as the Great Will, and the Axiom in this universe is very much pro-humanity. They'll be fine, as [[FridgeBrilliance depowering and slaying YHVH is exactly what the Axiom wanted]].]]

* Major plot spoilers follow, especially for the Massacre ending. Dagda is always evasive on his goals, and withholds valuable information up to the last second. He isn't just being mysterious; this actually ultimately helps his endgame. By remaining silent, Dagda is [[spoiler: [[SecretTestOfCharacter testing and training Nanashi]] to ensure that he can become the Creator God. Dagda's endgame is to kill YHVH, make a new universe for a free humanity, and install his Godslayer as the Creator God, with the side effect of killing everyone in the old universe. But in order to do that, he has to make sure that his Godslayer is the right person. The new Creator God has to have the same vision of the new universe as he does, or else the new universe would be just as bad as the last. Dagda can't be up front about everything, or else he'd be stuck with someone who wouldn't be a good Creator God. The only thing he really tells Nanashi up until the route split is how bad humans and demons are, and that a new world would be better.]]
** First, [[spoiler: if Dagda ever told Nanashi about the cost of Massacre, namely, killing everyone he knows, he'd most likely immediately refuse. Even if Nanashi is forced to do everything Dagda tells him, he can still rebel into Bonds. Even if Dagda invokes JerkassHasAPoint,
** Second, [[spoiler: if Dagda told Nanashi about the benefits of taking his route, that would also result in a bad Creator. For all he knows, if he told him that siding with him would make him God, Nanashi would probably act based on his greed instead of genuine desire for a new universe. Dagda only outright tells him that he'll become the Creator God after he's killed all his friends for the sake of the new universe, proving that he's completely dedicated to the cause. Even the old universe's preservation is better than being ruled over by an unfit Creator.]]

* Major plot spoilers follow, especially for the Massacre ending. Dagda is always evasive on his goals, and withholds valuable information up to the last second. He isn't just being mysterious; this actually ultimately helps his endgame. By remaining silent, Dagda is [[spoiler: [[SecretTestOfCharacter testing and training Nanashi]] to ensure that he can become the Creator God. Dagda's endgame is to kill YHVH, make a new universe for a free humanity, and install his Godslayer as the Creator God. But in order to do that, he has to make sure that his Godslayer is the right person. The new Creator God has to have the same vision of the new universe as he does, or else the new universe would be just as bad as the last. Dagda can't be up front about everything, or else he'd be stuck with someone who wouldn't be a good Creator God.]]
** First, Dagda has to [[spoiler: teach Nanashi about the world and get him on his side without telling him what to think. The Godslayer he chooses must follow the path of the new universe of his own free will.
** First, [[spoiler: Dagda has to teach his Godslayer . The Godslayer he chooses must follow the path of the new universe of his own will. If Dagda just brainwashed Nanashi like Krishna did to Flynn, then Nanashi would be an EmptyShell who wouldn't really be a Creator God and Dagda might as well replace YHVH like Krishna. For the Godslayer to share Dagda's views, he has to see the flaws of all the sides. Telling Nanashi to kill everyone right after resurrecting him wouldn't work. It would either result in angry refusal or Nanashi killing everyone out of blind obedience, which would result in a Creator God with no experience or vision. Dagda picks the spot right before the Cosmic Egg's Heart to explain his plan not only because by that point Nanashi has seen everything and has shown contempt for Law and Chaos, but also to ensure that Nanashi is just as willing to sacrifice everything as he is. The conversations between Dagda, Danu, and the party make it clear that it's Dagda against everyone else, and Nanashi can only follow Dagda by killing everyone else. Only after Nanashi murders his only friends and comrades does Dagda know that Nanashi is serious about the new universe.]]
** Second, Dagda only tells Nanashi that Nanashi [[spoiler: is meant to replace YHVH as the Creator God after Nanashi has proven his resolve by killing his only friends. Dagda is waiting for when Nanashi is solely motivated by the creation of the new universe, and by nothing else. Having a Godslayer that fights to become the Creator God would result in a Creator God not that different from YHVH. Dagda can't just tell a prospective ghost, "If you do exactly as I say, I'll make you God. No, not a god, ''God''." Then the ghost he chooses would just fight for personal gain, and would make a horrible God ruling over a selfish universe. Having a ghost that only obeys him because Dagda holds his life in his hands wouldn't have the vision to be a good Creator God. At the start, Nanashi obeys Dagda because he doesn't have a choice, so Dagda can't trust him with the information until he's knows that he's not acting out of a sense of self-preservation.]]

** First, [[spoiler: Dagda has to have his Godslayer come around to his perspective the hard way, without Dagda telling him how to think. The Godslayer he chooses must follow the path of the new universe of his own will. If Dagda just brainwashed Nanashi like Krishna did to Flynn, then Nanashi would be an EmptyShell who wouldn't really be a Creator God and Dagda might as well replace YHVH like Krishna. For the Godslayer to share Dagda's views, he has to see the flaws of all the sides. Telling Nanashi to kill everyone right after resurrecting him wouldn't work. It would either result in angry refusal or Nanashi killing everyone out of blind obedience, which would result in a Creator God with no experience or vision. Dagda picks the spot right before the Cosmic Egg's Heart to explain his plan not only because by that point Nanashi has seen everything and has shown contempt for Law and Chaos, but also to ensure that Nanashi is just as willing to sacrifice everything as he is. The conversations between Dagda, Danu, and the party make it clear that it's Dagda against everyone else, and Nanashi can only follow Dagda by killing everyone else. Only after Nanashi murders his only friends and comrades does Dagda know that Nanashi is serious about the new universe.]]

* The Messiahs in the Diamond Realm DLC features the previous game characters. On closer inspection, their stats and skills make sense. The Hero and Aleph have primarily Medium level skills, while the Demi Fiend and Flynn have Severe level skills. In the first two games, there were only two levels of attack skills. Skills such as Zanma and Agilao were the strongest skills possible, whereas in later games they're just Medium. The Hero and Aleph use HeroicWillpower to buff allies and debuff enemies respectively. In the first game, the Hero only starts fighting after he learns to summon demons, so his fighting style was built around working with a team and helping them. The second game features Aleph living in a world where hordes of demons can come at him every day, and Aleph spent a year learning to fight before summoning demons. Debuffing an entire horde of enemies is more effective than buffing one person.

* Nozomi didn't particularly specialize in any weapon in ''IV'', but now she's a gun user. Guns and cameras, and the shooting thereof, are very similar.

** Krishna explains that being lawful or chaotic in and of themselves are not bad, but the concept of them have been twisted by YHVH's covenant. By striking down Merkabah and Lucifer, you're basically telling YHVH to take his distortions of Law and Chaos and shove it so you can enact your own ideas of the two sides, free from his agents' influence. \\
\\
Additionally, look at ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor2''. It also has Law and Chaos paths, but both are presented as reasonable compared to in other ''Megami Tensei'' games: Law has humans working together to help one another while Chaos instills a meritocracy that values human achievement; compare to other games where usually Law is a holy WorldOfSilence and Chaos is a demonic wasteland of AsskickingEqualsAuthority. YHVH is a no-show in this game, not even as a GreaterScopeVillain. Krishna is indeed on the mark in his views on Law and Chaos.

Additionally, look at ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor2''. It also has Law and Chaos paths, but both are presented as reasonable compared to in other ''Megami Tensei'' games. Law and Chaos are very reasonable routes, compared to other games where it's a holy WorldOfSilence or a demonic wasteland of AsskickingEqualsAuthority. YHVH is a no-show in this game, not even as a GreaterScopeVillain. Krishna is indeed on the mark in his views on Law and Chaos.