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* The MCU's increasing reliance on sympathetic villains, who have understandable motives but extreme methods, has come under heavy criticism over time. Many viewers find these villain archetypes to be stale and inconsistently characterized as they make legitimate point but then act gratuitously evil to prove they're still the bad guy. The first notable case of this was Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains. While Killmonger was sympathetic as a result of how he suffered from systemic racism, and also more than right to criticize Wakanda for not helping impoverished Black people outside Wakanda, he still had gratuitous KickTheDog moments like the murder of his girlfriend and hatred of white people that were added to remind audiences that he was still a villain. Yet nonetheless, Killmonger was still held in high regard as a complex bad guy instead of an unlikable, one-dimensional straw character. For what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making a sympathetic villain feel fresh for the franchise. Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale in a way that allowed his FreudianExcuse, while not remotely justification for his evil actions, to still be understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa put genuine effort into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bringing about real change. In contrast, the later sympathetic villains were less well-received either because of their unlikable personalities ([[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]]), shallow motivations ([[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]])), forced evil actions ([[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]]) and arguments that were seemingly ignored by the heroes in favor of maintaining the status quo. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing anti-villain that holds up, his later imitators have neither his novelty nor nuanced characterization.

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* The Audiences have criticized MCU's increasing reliance on sympathetic villains, who have understandable motives but extreme methods, has come under heavy criticism over time. Many viewers find these villain archetypes to be which they see as stale and inconsistently characterized as they inconsistent since said villains make legitimate point but then legit points yet still to act gratuitously evil to prove they're still the bad guy.evil. The first notable case of this was Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains. While Killmonger was sympathetic as a result of how he suffered from systemic racism, and also more than right to criticize rightfully criticized Wakanda for not helping impoverished Black people outside Wakanda, people, he still had gratuitous KickTheDog moments like the murder of his girlfriend and hatred of white people that were added to remind audiences that he was still a villain. Yet nonetheless, Killmonger was still held in high regard as a complex bad guy instead of an unlikable, one-dimensional straw character. For what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making a sympathetic villain feel fresh for the franchise. Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale in a way that allowed his FreudianExcuse, while not remotely justification for his evil actions, to still be understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa put genuine effort into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bringing about real change. In contrast, the later sympathetic villains were less well-received either because of their unlikable personalities ([[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]]), shallow motivations ([[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]])), forced evil actions ([[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]]) and arguments that were seemingly ignored by the heroes in favor of maintaining the status quo. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing anti-villain that holds up, his later imitators have neither his novelty nor nuanced characterization.
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* ''Series/{{Secret Invasion|2023}}'' was criticized for deviating too much from [[ComicBook/SecretInvasion2008 its source material]], specifically with its reduced cast size and scale. However, ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' previously went with a similar downsized adaptational approach that didn't attract as much criticism. Like ''Secret Invasion'', ''Civil War'' deviated from [[ComicBook/CivilWar2006 the original comic]] to focus on a handful of heroes instead of a massive CrisisCrossover, most notably by omitting the Defenders and downplaying Spider-Man's role, not to mention naturally omitting characters related to the X-Men and Fantastic Four ([[ExiledFromContinuity whom Marvel Studios wasn't allowed to include at the time]] due to [[ScrewedByTheLawyers those characters having their film rights held by Fox]]). However, while some fans expressed disappointment over not seeing much beloved fan-favorite characters from the original comic storyline, ''Civil War'' improved on its source material by making its leads more sympathetic, as Steve's points about potentially corrupt world governments hampering the Avengers and Tony's points about keeping the Avengers in check to avoid collateral damage were [[BothSidesHaveAPoint both grounded in good reasons]] despite Tony's [[ItsAllMyFault guilt complex]] and Steve's [[ChronicHeroSyndrome savior complex]] keeping them from stopping the conflict. As such, the smaller scale actually benefitted by making the story more personal and the characters more sympathetic. On the other hand, fans weren't so forgiving with ''Secret Invasion'' because of how the show places so much focus on a handful of characters who weren't that interesting or sympathetic. The Skrulls, though justifiably angry that Fury broke his promise to find them a new home, went from living amongst humans with seemingly minimal issue to casually attempting genocide against humans. Likewise, while Fury certainly wasn't wrong about how [[FantasticRacism humanity would never have any guarantee of accepting the Skrulls]], he is similarly at his least sympathetic in ''Secret Invastion'' due to having used them as his personal spies, failed to fulfill the promise he and Carol had made to find them a new home in exchange, and [[spoiler:stolen the entire superhero community's DNA for research purposes behind their backs]]. Furthermore, the smaller scale hurts the stakes of the show as by focusing on a small handful of few characters and filming in sparsely populated areas, the show couldn't adequately convey the global scale of the crisis. So by omitting the original story's scope while failing to tell a personal story that improved on the source material, ''Secret Invasion'' made for a less engaging experience.

to:

* ''Series/{{Secret Invasion|2023}}'' was criticized for deviating too much from [[ComicBook/SecretInvasion2008 its source material]], specifically with its reduced cast size and scale. However, ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' previously went with a similar downsized adaptational approach that didn't attract as much criticism. Like ''Secret Invasion'', ''Civil War'' deviated from [[ComicBook/CivilWar2006 the original comic]] to focus on a handful of heroes instead of a massive CrisisCrossover, most notably by omitting the Defenders and downplaying Spider-Man's role, not to mention naturally omitting characters related to the X-Men and Fantastic Four ([[ExiledFromContinuity whom Marvel Studios wasn't allowed to include at the time]] due to [[ScrewedByTheLawyers those characters having their film rights held by Fox]]). However, while some fans expressed disappointment over not seeing much beloved fan-favorite characters from the original comic storyline, ''Civil War'' improved on its source material by making its leads more sympathetic, as Steve's points about potentially corrupt world governments hampering the Avengers and Tony's points about keeping the Avengers in check to avoid collateral damage were [[BothSidesHaveAPoint both grounded in good reasons]] despite Tony's [[ItsAllMyFault guilt complex]] and Steve's [[ChronicHeroSyndrome savior complex]] keeping them from stopping the conflict. As such, the smaller scale actually benefitted by making the story more personal and the characters more sympathetic. On the other hand, fans weren't so forgiving with ''Secret Invasion'' because of how the show places so much focus on a handful of characters who weren't that interesting or sympathetic. The Skrulls, though justifiably angry that Fury broke his promise to find them a new home, went from living amongst humans with seemingly minimal issue to casually attempting genocide against humans. Likewise, while Fury certainly wasn't wrong about how [[FantasticRacism humanity would never have any guarantee of accepting the Skrulls]], he is similarly at his least sympathetic in ''Secret Invastion'' due to having used them as his personal spies, failed to fulfill the promise he and Carol had made to find them a new home in exchange, and [[spoiler:stolen the entire superhero community's DNA for research purposes behind their backs]]. Furthermore, the smaller scale hurts the stakes of the show as by focusing on a small handful of few characters and filming in sparsely populated areas, the show couldn't adequately convey the global scale of the crisis. So by omitting the original story's scope while failing to tell a personal story that improved on the source material, ''Secret Invasion'' made for a less engaging experience.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''Series/{{Secret Invasion|2023}}'' was criticized for deviating too much from [[ComicBook/SecretInvasion2008 its source material]], specifically with its reduced cast size and scale. However, ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' previously went with a similar downsized adaptational approach that didn't attract as much criticism. Like ''Secret Invasion'', ''Civil War'' deviated from [[ComicBook/CivilWar2006 the original comic]] to focus on a handful of heroes instead of a massive CrisisCrossover, most notably by omitting the Defenders and downplaying Spider-Man's role, not to mention naturally omitting characters related to the X-Men and Fantastic Four ([[ExiledFromContinuity whom Marvel Studios wasn't allowed to include at the time]] due to [[ScrewedByTheLawyers those characters having their film rights held by Fox]]). However, while some fans expressed disappointment over not seeing much beloved fan-favorite characters from the original comic storyline, ''Civil War'' improved on its source material by making its leads more sympathetic, as Steve's points about potentially corrupt world governments hampering the Avengers and Tony's points about keeping the Avengers in check to avoid collateral damage were [[BothSidesHaveAPoint both grounded in good reasons]] despite Tony's [[ItsAllMyFault guilt complex]] and Steve's [[ChronicHeroSyndrome savior complex]] keeping them from stopping the conflict. As such, the smaller scale actually benefitted by making the story more personal and the characters more sympathetic. On the other hand, fans weren't so forgiving with ''Secret Invasion'' because of how the show places so much focus on a handful of characters who weren't that interesting or sympathetic. The Skrulls, though justifiably angry that Fury broke his promise to find them a new home, went from living amongst humans with seemingly minimal issue to casually attempting genocide against humans. Likewise, while Fury certainly wasn't wrong to about how [[FantasticRacism humanity would never have any guarantee of accepting the Skrulls]], he is similarly at his least sympathetic in ''Secret Invastion'' due to having used them as his personal spies, failed to fulfill the promise he and Carol had made to find them a new home in exchange, and [[spoiler:stolen the entire superhero community's DNA for research purposes behind their backs]]. Furthermore, the smaller scale hurts the stakes of the show as by focusing on a small handful of few characters and filming in sparsely populated areas, the show couldn't adequately convey the global scale of the crisis. So by omitting the original story's scope while failing to tell a personal story that improved on the source material, ''Secret Invasion'' made for a less engaging experience.

to:

* ''Series/{{Secret Invasion|2023}}'' was criticized for deviating too much from [[ComicBook/SecretInvasion2008 its source material]], specifically with its reduced cast size and scale. However, ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' previously went with a similar downsized adaptational approach that didn't attract as much criticism. Like ''Secret Invasion'', ''Civil War'' deviated from [[ComicBook/CivilWar2006 the original comic]] to focus on a handful of heroes instead of a massive CrisisCrossover, most notably by omitting the Defenders and downplaying Spider-Man's role, not to mention naturally omitting characters related to the X-Men and Fantastic Four ([[ExiledFromContinuity whom Marvel Studios wasn't allowed to include at the time]] due to [[ScrewedByTheLawyers those characters having their film rights held by Fox]]). However, while some fans expressed disappointment over not seeing much beloved fan-favorite characters from the original comic storyline, ''Civil War'' improved on its source material by making its leads more sympathetic, as Steve's points about potentially corrupt world governments hampering the Avengers and Tony's points about keeping the Avengers in check to avoid collateral damage were [[BothSidesHaveAPoint both grounded in good reasons]] despite Tony's [[ItsAllMyFault guilt complex]] and Steve's [[ChronicHeroSyndrome savior complex]] keeping them from stopping the conflict. As such, the smaller scale actually benefitted by making the story more personal and the characters more sympathetic. On the other hand, fans weren't so forgiving with ''Secret Invasion'' because of how the show places so much focus on a handful of characters who weren't that interesting or sympathetic. The Skrulls, though justifiably angry that Fury broke his promise to find them a new home, went from living amongst humans with seemingly minimal issue to casually attempting genocide against humans. Likewise, while Fury certainly wasn't wrong to about how [[FantasticRacism humanity would never have any guarantee of accepting the Skrulls]], he is similarly at his least sympathetic in ''Secret Invastion'' due to having used them as his personal spies, failed to fulfill the promise he and Carol had made to find them a new home in exchange, and [[spoiler:stolen the entire superhero community's DNA for research purposes behind their backs]]. Furthermore, the smaller scale hurts the stakes of the show as by focusing on a small handful of few characters and filming in sparsely populated areas, the show couldn't adequately convey the global scale of the crisis. So by omitting the original story's scope while failing to tell a personal story that improved on the source material, ''Secret Invasion'' made for a less engaging experience.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* The MCU's increasing reliance on sympathetic villains, who have understandable motives but extreme methods, has been criticized lately. Many viewers find these villain archetypes to be stale and inconsistently characterized as they make legitimate point but then act gratuitously evil to prove they're still the bad guy. The first notable case of this was Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains. While Killmonger was sympathetic given how he suffered from systemic racism and rightfully criticized Wakanda for helping impoverished Black people, he still had gratuitous KickTheDog moments like the murder of his girlfriend and hatred of white people that were added to make remind audiences that he was still a villain. Yet nonetheless, Killmonger was still held in high regard as a complex bad guy instead of an unlikable, one-dimensional straw character. What Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making a sympathetic villain feel fresh for the franchise. Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale such that his FreudianExcuse, while not justifying his evil actions, was understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa put genuine effort into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bringing about real change. In contrast, the later sympathetic villains were less well-received either because of their unlikable personalities ([[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]]), shallow motivations ([[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]])), forced evil actions ([[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]]) and arguments that were never addressed by heroes in favor of status quo. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing anti-villain that holds up, his later imitators have neither his novelty nor nuanced characterization.

to:

* The MCU's increasing reliance on sympathetic villains, who have understandable motives but extreme methods, has been criticized lately.come under heavy criticism over time. Many viewers find these villain archetypes to be stale and inconsistently characterized as they make legitimate point but then act gratuitously evil to prove they're still the bad guy. The first notable case of this was Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains. While Killmonger was sympathetic given as a result of how he suffered from systemic racism racism, and rightfully criticized also more than right to criticize Wakanda for not helping impoverished Black people, people outside Wakanda, he still had gratuitous KickTheDog moments like the murder of his girlfriend and hatred of white people that were added to make remind audiences that he was still a villain. Yet nonetheless, Killmonger was still held in high regard as a complex bad guy instead of an unlikable, one-dimensional straw character. What For what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making a sympathetic villain feel fresh for the franchise. Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale such in a way that allowed his FreudianExcuse, while not justifying remotely justification for his evil actions, was to still be understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa put genuine effort into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bringing about real change. In contrast, the later sympathetic villains were less well-received either because of their unlikable personalities ([[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]]), shallow motivations ([[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]])), forced evil actions ([[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]]) and arguments that were never addressed seemingly ignored by the heroes in favor of maintaining the status quo. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing anti-villain that holds up, his later imitators have neither his novelty nor nuanced characterization.



* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' is often referred to by fans as "Avengers 2.5" as despite being nominally a Captain America movie, its primary focus is the dynamics between Avengers. The film sidelinded several of Captain America's own plotlines, such as his struggle to adapt to the modern times, and his role in the world following the dissolution of SHIELD, and uses his relationship with Bucky mostly to drive the eventual conflict between the Avengers instead of exploring Cap's feelings on the matter. While the film was well received at the time, fans would criticize later MCU films for devoting too much time to developing the series' overall plotline and not enough on the heroes they're named after, leaving the characters feeling {{Flat|Character}} and [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter underdeveloped]]. Having ''every'' MCU film be a CrisisCrossover also served to make them all feel similar to one another, and made the actual crossovers less unique and appealing. To some, ''Film/TheMarvels2023'' felt like the culmination of this trend, where the [[ExcusePlot villain and conflict only existed to facilitate]] [[Series/MsMarvel Kamala Kahn]] and adult!Monica Rambeau interacting with Carol Danvers, and [[spoiler: to set up the X-Men's introduction in TheStinger,]] as opposed to telling a compelling story.

to:

* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' is often referred to by fans as "Avengers 2.5" as despite being nominally a Captain America movie, its primary focus is the dynamics between Avengers. The film sidelinded several of Captain America's own plotlines, such as his struggle to adapt to the modern times, and his role in the world following the dissolution of SHIELD, and uses his relationship with Bucky mostly to drive the eventual conflict between the Avengers instead of exploring Cap's feelings on the matter. While the film was well received at the time, time due to being the first non Avengers film to really emphasize the interconnected nature of the universe via characters from multiple previously separate subfranchises crossing over together, fans would criticize later MCU films for devoting too much time to developing the series' overall plotline and not enough on the heroes they're named after, leaving the characters feeling {{Flat|Character}} and [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter underdeveloped]]. Having ''every'' MCU film be a CrisisCrossover also served to make them all feel similar to one another, and made the actual crossovers less unique and appealing. To some, ''Film/TheMarvels2023'' felt like the culmination of this trend, where the [[ExcusePlot villain and conflict only existed to facilitate]] [[Series/MsMarvel Kamala Kahn]] and adult!Monica Rambeau interacting with Carol Danvers, and [[spoiler: to set up the X-Men's introduction in TheStinger,]] as opposed to telling a compelling story.



* ''Series/WandaVision'' came under heavy flak for revealing that [[spoiler:Creator/EvanPeter's Quicksilver]], like ''Film/IronMan3'''s Mandarin before him, [[spoiler:was a fake, being a man named "[[UnfortunateNames Ralph Bohner]]" whom Agatha Harkness brainwashed and empowered to drive Wanda over the edge and reveal her true power.]] The Mandarin twist, however, was somewhat more forgivable due to it working surprisingly well as a commentary on the original comic depiction's YellowPeril tropes, Creator/BenKingsley giving a memorable performance in the role, the Mandarin having never before been portrayed in live action at all beforehand (let alone by Kingsley) and thus not had any particularly strong expectations from prior portrayals to live up to, and [[spoiler:the fact that the whole business was eventually further retconned in ''Film/AllHailTheKing'' about how a more TruerToTheText Mandarin was still out and about (who in turn would ultimately finally see the light of day in ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'')]]. The twist with [[spoiler:Evan Peters' Quicksilver]], on the other hand, was much harder to forgive since [[spoiler:Peters was reprising his role from the ''Film/XMenFilmSeries'' in lieu of Creator/AaronTaylorJohnson (whose own take on Quicksilver in the MCU had been dead since ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'' and was therefore unavailable to soften the blow from the twist). And this same film series had not only been influential towards the start of the comic book film genre that eventually made the MCU possible, but also unceremoniously cut short by Disney's buyout of Fox and ended on a poor note with the terrible reception towards ''Film/DarkPhoenix'' and ''Film/TheNewMutants''.]] Combined with the fact that [[spoiler:Peter's Quicksilver was a preestablished character who was an EnsembleDarkHorse for his {{Signature Scene}}s in ''Film/XMenDaysOfFuturePast'' and ''Film/XMenApocalypse'']], fans took umbrage to the twist not only because it was a major fakeout, but also because it came across as extremely disrespectful towards [[spoiler:the ''X-Men'' films that Disney [[UngratefulBastard not only owed the MCU's ability to exist to]], but had [[KickThemWhileTheyAreDown also already been responsible for ending]]--especially since said twist lead to nothing but a dick joke.]]

to:

* ''Series/WandaVision'' came under heavy flak for revealing that [[spoiler:Creator/EvanPeter's Quicksilver]], like ''Film/IronMan3'''s Mandarin before him, [[spoiler:was a fake, being a man named "[[UnfortunateNames Ralph Bohner]]" whom Agatha Harkness brainwashed and empowered to drive Wanda over the edge and reveal her true power.]] The Mandarin twist, however, was somewhat more forgivable due to it working surprisingly well as a commentary on the original comic depiction's YellowPeril tropes, Creator/BenKingsley giving a memorable performance in the role, the Mandarin having never before been portrayed in live action at all beforehand (let alone by Kingsley) and thus not had any particularly strong expectations from prior portrayals to live up to, and [[spoiler:the fact that the whole business was eventually further retconned in ''Film/AllHailTheKing'' about how in favor of there being a more TruerToTheText Mandarin was still out and about (who in turn would ultimately finally see the light of day in ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'')]]. The twist with [[spoiler:Evan Peters' Quicksilver]], on the other hand, was much harder to forgive since [[spoiler:Peters was reprising his role from the ''Film/XMenFilmSeries'' in lieu of Creator/AaronTaylorJohnson (whose own take on Quicksilver in the MCU had been dead since ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'' and was therefore unavailable to soften the blow from the twist). And this same film series had not only been influential towards the start of the comic book film genre that eventually made the MCU possible, but also unceremoniously cut short by Disney's buyout of Fox and ended on a poor note with the terrible reception towards ''Film/DarkPhoenix'' and ''Film/TheNewMutants''.]] Combined with the fact that [[spoiler:Peter's Quicksilver was a preestablished character who was an EnsembleDarkHorse for his {{Signature Scene}}s in ''Film/XMenDaysOfFuturePast'' and ''Film/XMenApocalypse'']], fans took umbrage to the twist not only because it was a major fakeout, but also because it came across as extremely disrespectful towards [[spoiler:the ''X-Men'' films that Disney [[UngratefulBastard not only owed the MCU's ability to exist to]], but had [[KickThemWhileTheyAreDown also already been responsible for ending]]--especially since said twist lead to nothing but a dick joke.]]joke]].



* ''Series/{{Secret Invasion|2023}}'' was criticized for deviating too much from [[ComicBook/SecretInvasion2008 its source material]], specifically with its reduced cast size and scale. However, ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' previously went with a similar downsized adaptational approach that didn't attract as much criticism. Like ''Secret Invasion'', ''Civil War'' deviated from [[ComicBook/CivilWar2006 the original comic]] to focus on a handful of heroes instead of a massive CrisisCrossover, most notably by omitting the Defenders and downplaying Spider-Man's role, not to mention naturally omitting characters related to the X-Men and Fantastic Four ([[ExiledFromContinuity whom Marvel Studios wasn't allowed to include at the time]] due to [[ScrewedByTheLawyers those characters having their film rights held by Fox]]). However, while some fans expressed disappointment of not seeing their fan-favorite characters, ''Civil War'' improved on its source material by making its leads more sympathetic, as Steve's points about potentially corrupt world governments hampering the Avengers and Tony's points about keeping the Avengers in check to avoid collateral damage were [[BothSidesHaveAPoint both grounded in good reasons]] despite Tony's guilt complex and Steve's savior complex keeping them from stopping the conflict. As such, the smaller scale actually benefitted by making the story more personal and the characters more sympathetic. On the other hand, fans weren't so forgiving with ''Secret Invasion'' because of how the show places so much focus on a handful of characters who weren't that interesting or sympathetic. The Skrulls, though justifiably angry that Fury broke his promise to find them a home, went from living amongst humans with seemingly minimal issue to casually attempting genocide. Likewise, Fury, though not wrong to about how [[FantasticRacism humanity would never have any guarantee of accepting the Skrulls]], is similarly at his least sympathetic due to having used them as his personal spies and [[spoiler:stolen the entire superhero community's DNA]]. Furthermore, the smaller scale hurts the stakes of the show as by focusing on a few characters and filming in sparsely populated areas, the show couldn't convey the global scale of the crisis. So by omitting the original story's scope while failing to tell a personal story that improved on the source material, ''Secret Invasion'' made for a less engaging experience.

to:

* ''Series/{{Secret Invasion|2023}}'' was criticized for deviating too much from [[ComicBook/SecretInvasion2008 its source material]], specifically with its reduced cast size and scale. However, ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' previously went with a similar downsized adaptational approach that didn't attract as much criticism. Like ''Secret Invasion'', ''Civil War'' deviated from [[ComicBook/CivilWar2006 the original comic]] to focus on a handful of heroes instead of a massive CrisisCrossover, most notably by omitting the Defenders and downplaying Spider-Man's role, not to mention naturally omitting characters related to the X-Men and Fantastic Four ([[ExiledFromContinuity whom Marvel Studios wasn't allowed to include at the time]] due to [[ScrewedByTheLawyers those characters having their film rights held by Fox]]). However, while some fans expressed disappointment of over not seeing their much beloved fan-favorite characters, characters from the original comic storyline, ''Civil War'' improved on its source material by making its leads more sympathetic, as Steve's points about potentially corrupt world governments hampering the Avengers and Tony's points about keeping the Avengers in check to avoid collateral damage were [[BothSidesHaveAPoint both grounded in good reasons]] despite Tony's [[ItsAllMyFault guilt complex complex]] and Steve's [[ChronicHeroSyndrome savior complex complex]] keeping them from stopping the conflict. As such, the smaller scale actually benefitted by making the story more personal and the characters more sympathetic. On the other hand, fans weren't so forgiving with ''Secret Invasion'' because of how the show places so much focus on a handful of characters who weren't that interesting or sympathetic. The Skrulls, though justifiably angry that Fury broke his promise to find them a new home, went from living amongst humans with seemingly minimal issue to casually attempting genocide. genocide against humans. Likewise, Fury, though not while Fury certainly wasn't wrong to about how [[FantasticRacism humanity would never have any guarantee of accepting the Skrulls]], he is similarly at his least sympathetic in ''Secret Invastion'' due to having used them as his personal spies spies, failed to fulfill the promise he and Carol had made to find them a new home in exchange, and [[spoiler:stolen the entire superhero community's DNA]]. DNA for research purposes behind their backs]]. Furthermore, the smaller scale hurts the stakes of the show as by focusing on a small handful of few characters and filming in sparsely populated areas, the show couldn't adequately convey the global scale of the crisis. So by omitting the original story's scope while failing to tell a personal story that improved on the source material, ''Secret Invasion'' made for a less engaging experience.
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* The MCU's increasing reliance on {{Anti-Villain}}s, who with sympathetic motives but extreme methods, has been criticized lately. Many viewers find these villain archetype to be stale and inconsistently characterized as the villains have legitimate arguments but then act gratuitously evil to prove they're still the bad guy. The first notable case of this was Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains. Killmonger was notable as that he came from an impoverished background, suffered from systemic racism and rightfully criticized Wakanda for not using its wealth and technology to help poor Africans. However, his characterization did get some complaints for having gratuitous KickTheDog moments like the murder of his girlfriend or threatening to kill children that were added to make remind audiences that he was still a villain. Yet nonetheless, Killmonger was still held in high regard for many reasons. What Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making the novelty of a sympathetic villain like Killmonger feel fresh for the franchise. Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale such that his FreudianExcuse, while not justifying his evil actions, was understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa put genuine effort into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bringing about real change. In contrast, the later sympathetic villains like [[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]], [[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]] and [[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]] were less well-received as their personalities are too unsympathetic for audiences, their motivations were poorly defined and their complaints are never addressed by the heroes. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing anti-villain that holds up, the later copycat anti-villains lack his novelty or nuanced characterization.

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* The MCU's increasing reliance on {{Anti-Villain}}s, who with sympathetic villains, who have understandable motives but extreme methods, has been criticized lately. Many viewers find these villain archetype archetypes to be stale and inconsistently characterized as the villains have they make legitimate arguments point but then act gratuitously evil to prove they're still the bad guy. The first notable case of this was Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains. While Killmonger was notable as that sympathetic given how he came from an impoverished background, suffered from systemic racism and rightfully criticized Wakanda for not using its wealth and technology to help poor Africans. However, his characterization did get some complaints for having helping impoverished Black people, he still had gratuitous KickTheDog moments like the murder of his girlfriend or threatening to kill children and hatred of white people that were added to make remind audiences that he was still a villain. Yet nonetheless, Killmonger was still held in high regard for many reasons. as a complex bad guy instead of an unlikable, one-dimensional straw character. What Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making the novelty of a sympathetic villain like Killmonger feel fresh for the franchise. Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale such that his FreudianExcuse, while not justifying his evil actions, was understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa put genuine effort into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bringing about real change. In contrast, the later sympathetic villains like [[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]], [[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]] and [[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]] were less well-received as either because of their unlikable personalities are too unsympathetic for audiences, their ([[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]]), shallow motivations ([[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]])), forced evil actions ([[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]]) and arguments that were poorly defined and their complaints are never addressed by the heroes. heroes in favor of status quo. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing anti-villain that holds up, the his later copycat anti-villains lack imitators have neither his novelty or nor nuanced characterization.
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* The MCU's increasing reliance on villains with sympathetic motives who go too far in their methods has become more and more criticized lately due to many viewers feeling this formula has become overused and that it makes the villains too sympathetic compared to the heroes, with many noting that these villains often make legitimate arguments but then act gratuitously evil to prove they're still the bad guy. The first notable case of this was Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains, but his portrayal had the same flaws, with many of his more evil acts, such as his murder of his girlfriend or threatening to kill children, coming off as forced KickTheDog moments that were added just to keep him from being too sympathetic. However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains that followed lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making the novelty of a villain like Killmonger feel like a fresh new idea for the franchise. And furthermore, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa subsequently showed genuine willingness to put in the effort to try to address Killmonger's arguments and bring about real change; whereas most of the other such villains that followed get defeated, only for the heroes and world at large to show no explicit sign of taking the villains' criticisms to heart and trying to make any changes to the status quo in response.

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* The MCU's increasing reliance on villains {{Anti-Villain}}s, who with sympathetic motives who go too far in their methods but extreme methods, has become more and more been criticized lately due to many lately. Many viewers feeling this formula has become overused find these villain archetype to be stale and that it makes inconsistently characterized as the villains too sympathetic compared to the heroes, with many noting that these villains often make have legitimate arguments but then act gratuitously evil to prove they're still the bad guy. The first notable case of this was Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains, but villains. Killmonger was notable as that he came from an impoverished background, suffered from systemic racism and rightfully criticized Wakanda for not using its wealth and technology to help poor Africans. However, his portrayal had characterization did get some complaints for having gratuitous KickTheDog moments like the same flaws, with many of his more evil acts, such as his murder of his girlfriend or threatening to kill children, coming off as forced KickTheDog moments children that were added just to keep him from being too sympathetic. However, what make remind audiences that he was still a villain. Yet nonetheless, Killmonger was still held in high regard for many reasons. What Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains that followed lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making the novelty of a sympathetic villain like Killmonger feel like a fresh new idea for the franchise. And furthermore, Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale such that his FreudianExcuse, while not justifying his evil actions, was understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa subsequently showed put genuine willingness to put in the effort to try to address into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bring bringing about real change; whereas most of change. In contrast, the other such later sympathetic villains like [[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]], [[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]] and [[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]] were less well-received as their personalities are too unsympathetic for audiences, their motivations were poorly defined and their complaints are never addressed by the heroes. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing anti-villain that followed get defeated, only for holds up, the heroes and world at large to show no explicit sign of taking the villains' criticisms to heart and trying to make any changes to the status quo in response.later copycat anti-villains lack his novelty or nuanced characterization.
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** ''Film/IronMan3'' had pulled drastic changes with The Mandarin, revealing him as [[spoiler:a drunken actor named Trevor Slattery, who was hired by the real BigBad, Aldrich Killian, to put on a public face for his crimes while he carried out his real plans in secret]]--and that twist was met with controversy very similar to the kind that the changes to Taskmaster in ''Black Widow'' suffered from. However, the difference in this case is that the Mandarin's twist was slightly more acceptable because there was genuine reasoning behind it. The Mandarin was a character with a lot of ValuesDissonance over his YellowPeril origins so any alterations would be necessary to suit modern tastes, with some people even admiring the twist as a sly commentary on racist stereotyping that can be weaponized for fearmongering. It also helped that the twist was later retconned in ''All Hail The King'' by revealing [[spoiler:the "real" Mandarin had taken offense to Slattery's portrayal]], leading to ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'' [[spoiler:featuring a more comics-accurate take on The Mandarin that shed much of the character's past baggage and made him into a fleshed-out, well-rounded antagonist that even spared Trevor, who in turn managed to redeem himself [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap in the eyes of fans]] by bringing much needed levity to an emotional story.]] Furthermore, even the fans who didn't like the twist in and of itself were still able to be entertained by the lively and flamboyant performance that Creator/BenKingsley put on while portraying the character. As for Taskmaster, himself an EnsembleDarkHorse in the comics, fans weren't so forgiving of the twist because the character didn't have any problematic baggage from the past that needed an overhaul. Furthermore, the fact his [[spoiler:[[GenderFlip female]]]] counterpart in ''Black Widow'' [[spoiler:bore no resemblance to the character fans knew and loved]], combined with [[spoiler:Creator/OlgaKurylenko]]'s plot induced inability to put on as compelling of a performance for Taskmaster as Kingsley did for the [[spoiler: fake Mandarin]], made the twist much harder to forgive.

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** ''Film/IronMan3'' had pulled drastic changes with The Mandarin, revealing him as [[spoiler:a drunken actor named Trevor Slattery, who was hired by the real BigBad, Aldrich Killian, to put on a public face for his crimes while he carried out his real plans in secret]]--and that twist was met with controversy very similar to the kind that the changes to Taskmaster in ''Black Widow'' suffered from. However, the difference in this case is that the Mandarin's twist was slightly more acceptable because there was genuine reasoning behind it. The Mandarin was a character with a lot of ValuesDissonance over his YellowPeril origins so any alterations would be necessary to suit modern tastes, with some people even admiring the twist as a sly commentary on racist stereotyping that can be weaponized for fearmongering. It also helped that the twist was later retconned in ''All Hail The King'' by revealing [[spoiler:the "real" Mandarin had taken offense to Slattery's portrayal]], leading to ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'' [[spoiler:featuring a more comics-accurate take on The Mandarin that shed much of the character's past baggage and made him into a fleshed-out, well-rounded antagonist that even spared Trevor, who in turn managed to redeem himself [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap in the eyes of fans]] by bringing much needed levity to an emotional story.]] Furthermore, even the fans who didn't like the twist in and of itself were still able to be entertained by the lively and flamboyant performance that Creator/BenKingsley put on while portraying the character. As for Taskmaster, himself an EnsembleDarkHorse in the comics, fans weren't so forgiving of the twist because the character didn't have any problematic baggage from the past that needed an overhaul. Furthermore, the fact his [[spoiler:[[GenderFlip female]]]] counterpart in ''Black Widow'' [[spoiler:bore no resemblance to the character fans knew and loved]], combined with [[spoiler:Creator/OlgaKurylenko]]'s plot induced plot-induced inability to put on as compelling of a performance for Taskmaster as Kingsley did for the [[spoiler: fake Mandarin]], fake]] Mandarin, made the twist much harder to forgive.
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** Speaking of Thor's reduction into comic relief, the first film to do that was actually ''Film/ThorRagnarok'', which played up a much more heavily comedic side than all of his previous appearances. At the time, this was seen as a breath of fresh air because Thor had always been seen as too dull, especially in the controversial second film ''Film/ThorTheDarkWorld'', and ''Ragnarok'' allowed Creator/ChrisHemsworth to tap into his comedic talent. On top of that, this change worked to Thor's favor because it was an 80's GenreThrowback film that utilized The Hulk as the Creator/RobertDeNiro to Thor's Creator/CharlesGrodin (as per Creator/MarkRuffalo's comments about the two's ''Film/MidnightRun'' dynamic), giving a proper balance and still focusing on Thor's CharacterDevelopment as a more responsible and wiser man--especially compared to his brother. But come ''Love And Thunder'', this comedy was heavily overshadowing everything about Thor to the point that he [[AesopAmnesia forgot much of his character arc]] in favor of being played as a straight up goofball, and his comedic partner was Creator/NataliePortman's Jane Foster in an EndearinglyDorky performance rather than the more VitriolicBestBuds dynamic he had with The Hulk, so the film's 80's approach didn't work nearly as well this time around. It especially didn't help that ''Infinity War'' had continued Thor's tragic characterization, only for ''Endgame'' to have played much of it for laughs at the expense of Thor's [[YouAreFat gaining weight]] in the wake of all he had lost, which only made him being goofier harder to watch. Even more ironically, ''The Dark World'' would be VindicatedByHistory precisely because it took Thor more seriously and played into his development and story arc, while ''Ragnarok'' lost some ground for planting the seeds for Thor's eventual turn into a goofball.
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* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' is often referred to by fans as "Avengers 2.5" as despite being nominally a Captain America movie, its primary focus is the dynamics between Avengers. The film sidelinded several of Captain America's own plotlines, such as his struggle to adapt to the modern times, and his role in the world following the dissolution of SHIELD, and uses his relationship with Bucky mostly to drive the eventual conflict between the Avengers instead of exploring Cap's feelings on the matter. While the film was well received at the time, fans would criticize later MCU films for devoting too much time to developing the overall plotline of the series and not enough on the heroes they're named after, leaving the characters feeling {{Flat|Character}} and [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter underdeveloped]]. Having ''every'' MCU film be a CrisisCrossover also served to make them all feel similar to one another, and made the actual crossovers less unique and appealing. To some, ''Film/TheMarvels2023'' felt like the culmination of this trend, where the [[ExcusePlot villain and conflict only existed to facilitate]] [[Series/MsMarvel Kamala Kahn]] and adult!Monica Rambeau interacting with Carol Danvers, and [[spoiler: to set up the X-Men's introduction in TheStinger,]] as opposed to telling a compelling story.

to:

* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' is often referred to by fans as "Avengers 2.5" as despite being nominally a Captain America movie, its primary focus is the dynamics between Avengers. The film sidelinded several of Captain America's own plotlines, such as his struggle to adapt to the modern times, and his role in the world following the dissolution of SHIELD, and uses his relationship with Bucky mostly to drive the eventual conflict between the Avengers instead of exploring Cap's feelings on the matter. While the film was well received at the time, fans would criticize later MCU films for devoting too much time to developing the series' overall plotline of the series and not enough on the heroes they're named after, leaving the characters feeling {{Flat|Character}} and [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter underdeveloped]]. Having ''every'' MCU film be a CrisisCrossover also served to make them all feel similar to one another, and made the actual crossovers less unique and appealing. To some, ''Film/TheMarvels2023'' felt like the culmination of this trend, where the [[ExcusePlot villain and conflict only existed to facilitate]] [[Series/MsMarvel Kamala Kahn]] and adult!Monica Rambeau interacting with Carol Danvers, and [[spoiler: to set up the X-Men's introduction in TheStinger,]] as opposed to telling a compelling story.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
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* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' is often referred to by fans as "Avengers 2.5" as despite being nominally a Captain America movie, its primary focus is the dynamics between Avengers. Several of Captain America's own plotlines, such as his struggle to adapt to the modern times, and his role in the world following the dissolution of SHIELD, were relegated to the sides, save for his relationship with Bucky, which was only kept in because it drove the eventual conflict between the Avengers. While the film was well received at the time, fans would criticize later MCU films for devoting too much time to developing the overall plotline of the series and not enough on the heroes they're named after, leaving the characters feeling {{Flat|Character}} and [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter underdeveloped]]. Having ''every'' MCU film be a CrisisCrossover also serves to make them all feel similar to one another, and makes the actual official crossovers less appealing. To some, ''Film/TheMarvels2023'' felt like the culmination of this trend, where the [[ExcusePlot villain and conflict only existed to facilitate]] [[Series/MsMarvel Kamala Kahn]] and adult!Monica Rambeau interacting with Carol Danvers, and [[spoiler: to set up the X-Men's introduction in TheStinger,]] as opposed to telling a compelling story.

to:

* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' is often referred to by fans as "Avengers 2.5" as despite being nominally a Captain America movie, its primary focus is the dynamics between Avengers. Several The film sidelinded several of Captain America's own plotlines, such as his struggle to adapt to the modern times, and his role in the world following the dissolution of SHIELD, were relegated to the sides, save for and uses his relationship with Bucky, which was only kept in because it drove Bucky mostly to drive the eventual conflict between the Avengers.Avengers instead of exploring Cap's feelings on the matter. While the film was well received at the time, fans would criticize later MCU films for devoting too much time to developing the overall plotline of the series and not enough on the heroes they're named after, leaving the characters feeling {{Flat|Character}} and [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter underdeveloped]]. Having ''every'' MCU film be a CrisisCrossover also serves served to make them all feel similar to one another, and makes made the actual official crossovers less unique and appealing. To some, ''Film/TheMarvels2023'' felt like the culmination of this trend, where the [[ExcusePlot villain and conflict only existed to facilitate]] [[Series/MsMarvel Kamala Kahn]] and adult!Monica Rambeau interacting with Carol Danvers, and [[spoiler: to set up the X-Men's introduction in TheStinger,]] as opposed to telling a compelling story.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
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* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' is often referred to by fans as "Avengers 2.5" as despite being nominally a Captain America movie, its primary focus is the dynamics between Avengers. Several of Captain America's own plotlines, such as his struggle to adapt to the modern times, and his role in the world following the dissolution of SHIELD, were relegated to the sides, save for his relationship with Bucky, which was only kept in because it drove the eventual conflict between the Avengers. While the film was well received at the time, fans would criticize later MCU films for devoting too much time to developing the overall plotline of the series and not enough on the heroes they're named after. Having ''every'' MCU film be a CrisisCrossover also serves to make them all feel similar to one another, and makes the actual official crossovers less appealing. To some, ''Film/TheMarvels2023'' felt like the culmination of this trend, where the [[ExcusePlot villain and conflict only existed to facilitate]] [[Series/MsMarvel Kamala Kahn]] and adult!Monica Rambeau interacting with Carol Danvers, and [[spoiler: to set up the X-Men's introduction in TheStinger,]] as opposed to telling a compelling story.

to:

* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' is often referred to by fans as "Avengers 2.5" as despite being nominally a Captain America movie, its primary focus is the dynamics between Avengers. Several of Captain America's own plotlines, such as his struggle to adapt to the modern times, and his role in the world following the dissolution of SHIELD, were relegated to the sides, save for his relationship with Bucky, which was only kept in because it drove the eventual conflict between the Avengers. While the film was well received at the time, fans would criticize later MCU films for devoting too much time to developing the overall plotline of the series and not enough on the heroes they're named after.after, leaving the characters feeling {{Flat|Character}} and [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter underdeveloped]]. Having ''every'' MCU film be a CrisisCrossover also serves to make them all feel similar to one another, and makes the actual official crossovers less appealing. To some, ''Film/TheMarvels2023'' felt like the culmination of this trend, where the [[ExcusePlot villain and conflict only existed to facilitate]] [[Series/MsMarvel Kamala Kahn]] and adult!Monica Rambeau interacting with Carol Danvers, and [[spoiler: to set up the X-Men's introduction in TheStinger,]] as opposed to telling a compelling story.
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* ''Series/{{Secret Invasion|2023}}'' was criticized for deviating too much from [[ComicBook/SecretInvasion2008 its source material]], specifically with its reduced cast size and scale. However, ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' previously went with a similar downsized adaptational approach that didn't attract as much criticism. Like ''Secret Invasion'', ''Civil War'' deviated from [[ComicBook/CivilWar2006 the original comic]] to focus on a handful of heroes instead of a massive CrisisCrossover, most notably by omitting the Defenders and downplaying Spider-Man's role. However, while some fans expressed disappointment of not seeing their fan-favorite characters, ''Civil War'' improved on its source material by making its leads more sympathetic, as Steve's points about potentially corrupt world governments hampering the Avengers and Tony's points about keeping the Avengers in check to avoid collateral damage were [[BothSidesHaveAPoint both grounded in good reasons]] despite Tony's guilt complex and Steve's savior complex keeping them from stopping the conflict. As such, the smaller scale actually benefitted by making the story more personal and the characters more sympathetic. On the other hand, fans weren't so forgiving with ''Secret Invasion'' because of how the show places so much focus on a handful of characters who weren't that interesting or sympathetic. The Skrulls, though justifiably angry that Fury broke his promise to find them a home, went from living amongst humans to attempting genocide. Likewise, Fury, though justifiably pointing out that [[FantasticRacism humanity won't accept the Skrulls]], is similarly unsympathetic for having used them as his personal spies and [[spoiler:stealing the entire superhero community's DNA]]. Furthermore, the smaller scale hurts the stakes of the show as by focusing on a few characters and filming in sparsely populated areas, the show couldn't convey the global scale of the crisis. So by omitting the original story's scope while failing to tell a personal story that improved on the source material, ''Secret Invasion'' made for a less engaging experience.

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* ''Series/{{Secret Invasion|2023}}'' was criticized for deviating too much from [[ComicBook/SecretInvasion2008 its source material]], specifically with its reduced cast size and scale. However, ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' previously went with a similar downsized adaptational approach that didn't attract as much criticism. Like ''Secret Invasion'', ''Civil War'' deviated from [[ComicBook/CivilWar2006 the original comic]] to focus on a handful of heroes instead of a massive CrisisCrossover, most notably by omitting the Defenders and downplaying Spider-Man's role.role, not to mention naturally omitting characters related to the X-Men and Fantastic Four ([[ExiledFromContinuity whom Marvel Studios wasn't allowed to include at the time]] due to [[ScrewedByTheLawyers those characters having their film rights held by Fox]]). However, while some fans expressed disappointment of not seeing their fan-favorite characters, ''Civil War'' improved on its source material by making its leads more sympathetic, as Steve's points about potentially corrupt world governments hampering the Avengers and Tony's points about keeping the Avengers in check to avoid collateral damage were [[BothSidesHaveAPoint both grounded in good reasons]] despite Tony's guilt complex and Steve's savior complex keeping them from stopping the conflict. As such, the smaller scale actually benefitted by making the story more personal and the characters more sympathetic. On the other hand, fans weren't so forgiving with ''Secret Invasion'' because of how the show places so much focus on a handful of characters who weren't that interesting or sympathetic. The Skrulls, though justifiably angry that Fury broke his promise to find them a home, went from living amongst humans with seemingly minimal issue to casually attempting genocide. Likewise, Fury, though justifiably pointing out that not wrong to about how [[FantasticRacism humanity won't accept would never have any guarantee of accepting the Skrulls]], is similarly unsympathetic for at his least sympathetic due to having used them as his personal spies and [[spoiler:stealing [[spoiler:stolen the entire superhero community's DNA]]. Furthermore, the smaller scale hurts the stakes of the show as by focusing on a few characters and filming in sparsely populated areas, the show couldn't convey the global scale of the crisis. So by omitting the original story's scope while failing to tell a personal story that improved on the source material, ''Secret Invasion'' made for a less engaging experience.
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* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' is often referred to by fans as "Avengers 2.5" as despite being nominally a Captain America movie, its primary focus is the dynamics between Avengers. Several of Captain America's own plotlines, such as his struggle to adapt to the modern times, and his role in the world following the dissolution of SHIELD, were relegated to the sides, save for his relationship with Bucky, which was only kept in because it drove the eventual conflict between the Avengers. While the film was well received at the time, fans would criticize later MCU films for devoting too much time to developing the overall plotline of the series and not enough on the heroes they're named after. Having ''every'' MCU film be a CrisisCrossover also serves to make them all feel similar to one another, and makes the actual official crossovers less appealing. To some, ''Film/TheMarvels2023'' felt like the culmination of this trend, where the [[ExcusePlot villain and conflict only existed to facilitate]][[Series/MsMarvel Kamala Kahn]] and adult!Monica Rambeau interacting with Carol Danvers, and [[spoiler: to set up the X-Men's introduction in TheStinger,]] as opposed to telling a compelling story.

to:

* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' is often referred to by fans as "Avengers 2.5" as despite being nominally a Captain America movie, its primary focus is the dynamics between Avengers. Several of Captain America's own plotlines, such as his struggle to adapt to the modern times, and his role in the world following the dissolution of SHIELD, were relegated to the sides, save for his relationship with Bucky, which was only kept in because it drove the eventual conflict between the Avengers. While the film was well received at the time, fans would criticize later MCU films for devoting too much time to developing the overall plotline of the series and not enough on the heroes they're named after. Having ''every'' MCU film be a CrisisCrossover also serves to make them all feel similar to one another, and makes the actual official crossovers less appealing. To some, ''Film/TheMarvels2023'' felt like the culmination of this trend, where the [[ExcusePlot villain and conflict only existed to facilitate]][[Series/MsMarvel facilitate]] [[Series/MsMarvel Kamala Kahn]] and adult!Monica Rambeau interacting with Carol Danvers, and [[spoiler: to set up the X-Men's introduction in TheStinger,]] as opposed to telling a compelling story.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' is often referred to by fans as "Avengers 2.5" as despite being nominally a Captain America movie, its primary focus is the dynamics between Avengers. Several of Captain America's own plotlines, such as his struggle to adapt to the modern times, and his role in the world following the dissolution of SHIELD, were relegated to the sides, save for his relationship with Bucky, which was only kept in because it drove the eventual conflict between the Avengers. While the film was well received at the time, fans would criticize later MCU films for devoting too much time to developing the overall plotline of the series and not enough on the heroes they're named after. Having ''every'' MCU film be a CrisisCrossover also serves to make them all feel similar to one another, and makes the actual official crossovers less appealing. To some, ''TheMarvels2023'' felt like the culmination of this trend, where the [[ExcusePlot villain and conflict only existed to facilitate]][[Series/MsMarvel Kamala Kahn]] and adult!Monica Rambeau interacting with Carol Danvers, and [[spoiler: to set up the X-Men's introduction in TheStinger,]] as opposed to telling a compelling story.

to:

* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' is often referred to by fans as "Avengers 2.5" as despite being nominally a Captain America movie, its primary focus is the dynamics between Avengers. Several of Captain America's own plotlines, such as his struggle to adapt to the modern times, and his role in the world following the dissolution of SHIELD, were relegated to the sides, save for his relationship with Bucky, which was only kept in because it drove the eventual conflict between the Avengers. While the film was well received at the time, fans would criticize later MCU films for devoting too much time to developing the overall plotline of the series and not enough on the heroes they're named after. Having ''every'' MCU film be a CrisisCrossover also serves to make them all feel similar to one another, and makes the actual official crossovers less appealing. To some, ''TheMarvels2023'' ''Film/TheMarvels2023'' felt like the culmination of this trend, where the [[ExcusePlot villain and conflict only existed to facilitate]][[Series/MsMarvel Kamala Kahn]] and adult!Monica Rambeau interacting with Carol Danvers, and [[spoiler: to set up the X-Men's introduction in TheStinger,]] as opposed to telling a compelling story.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' is often referred to by fans as "Avengers 2.5" as despite being nominally a Captain America movie, its primary focus is the dynamics between Avengers. Several of Captain America's own plotlines, such as his struggle to adapt to the modern times, and his role in the world following the dissolution of SHIELD, were relegated to the sides, save for his relationship with Bucky, which was only kept in because it drove the eventual conflict between the Avengers. While the film was well received at the time, fans would criticize later MCU films for devoting too much time to developing the overall plotline of the series and not enough on the heroes they're named after. Having ''every'' MCU film be a CrisisCrossover also serves to make them all feel similar to one another, and makes the actual official crossovers less appealing.

to:

* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' is often referred to by fans as "Avengers 2.5" as despite being nominally a Captain America movie, its primary focus is the dynamics between Avengers. Several of Captain America's own plotlines, such as his struggle to adapt to the modern times, and his role in the world following the dissolution of SHIELD, were relegated to the sides, save for his relationship with Bucky, which was only kept in because it drove the eventual conflict between the Avengers. While the film was well received at the time, fans would criticize later MCU films for devoting too much time to developing the overall plotline of the series and not enough on the heroes they're named after. Having ''every'' MCU film be a CrisisCrossover also serves to make them all feel similar to one another, and makes the actual official crossovers less appealing.
appealing. To some, ''TheMarvels2023'' felt like the culmination of this trend, where the [[ExcusePlot villain and conflict only existed to facilitate]][[Series/MsMarvel Kamala Kahn]] and adult!Monica Rambeau interacting with Carol Danvers, and [[spoiler: to set up the X-Men's introduction in TheStinger,]] as opposed to telling a compelling story.
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* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' is often referred to by fans as "Avengers 2.5" as despite being nominally a Captain America movie, its primary focus is the dynamics between Avengers. Several of Captain America's own plotlines, such as his struggle to adapt to the modern world, and his role in the world following the dissolution of SHIELD, were relegated to the sides, save for his relationship with Bucky, which was only kept in because it drove the eventual conflict between the Avengers. While the film was well received at the time, fans would criticize later MCU films for devoting too much time to developing the overall plotline of the series and not enough on the heroes they're named after. Having ''every'' MCU film be a CrisisCrossover also serves to make them all feel similar to one another, and makes the actual official crossovers less appealing.

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* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' is often referred to by fans as "Avengers 2.5" as despite being nominally a Captain America movie, its primary focus is the dynamics between Avengers. Several of Captain America's own plotlines, such as his struggle to adapt to the modern world, times, and his role in the world following the dissolution of SHIELD, were relegated to the sides, save for his relationship with Bucky, which was only kept in because it drove the eventual conflict between the Avengers. While the film was well received at the time, fans would criticize later MCU films for devoting too much time to developing the overall plotline of the series and not enough on the heroes they're named after. Having ''every'' MCU film be a CrisisCrossover also serves to make them all feel similar to one another, and makes the actual official crossovers less appealing.
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to:

* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' is often referred to by fans as "Avengers 2.5" as despite being nominally a Captain America movie, its primary focus is the dynamics between Avengers. Several of Captain America's own plotlines, such as his struggle to adapt to the modern world, and his role in the world following the dissolution of SHIELD, were relegated to the sides, save for his relationship with Bucky, which was only kept in because it drove the eventual conflict between the Avengers. While the film was well received at the time, fans would criticize later MCU films for devoting too much time to developing the overall plotline of the series and not enough on the heroes they're named after. Having ''every'' MCU film be a CrisisCrossover also serves to make them all feel similar to one another, and makes the actual official crossovers less appealing.
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* ''The Avengers'' is accused of the "too many characters" problem that plagued some of the later films. It's less noticeable because the Avengers all had a common goal and the film itself had a fairly streamlined plot, which was helped by the fact that most of the key characters were already well-developed thanks to previous films. Meanwhile, later movies tried to give every character their own arc and storyline, with mixed results. Phase 4 also received criticisms for introducing popular characters such as Shang-Chi, Kate Bishop, Moon Knight and She-Hulk in their own movies/shows, only to barely reference or showcase them again in other installments, making their inclusion to the overall franchise seem superflous.

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* ''The Avengers'' is accused of the "too many characters" problem that plagued some of the later films. It's less noticeable because the Avengers all had a common goal and the film itself had a fairly streamlined plot, which was helped by the fact that most of the key characters were already well-developed thanks to previous films. Meanwhile, later movies tried to give every character their own arc and storyline, with mixed results. Phase 4 also received criticisms for introducing popular characters such as Shang-Chi, Kate Bishop, Moon Knight and She-Hulk in their own movies/shows, only to for the backlog of other content resulting in these characters barely reference being referenced or showcase them again in other installments, showcased again, making their inclusion to the overall franchise seem superflous.superfluous.
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* The MCU's increasing reliance on villains with sympathetic motives who go too far in their methods has become more and more criticized lately due to many viewers feeling this formula has become overused and that it makes the villains too sympathetic compared to the heroes, with many noting that these villains often make legitimate arguments but then act gratuitously evil to prove they're still the bad guy. The first notable case of this was Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains, but his portrayal had the same flaws, with many of his more evil acts, such as his murder of his girlfriend or threatening to kill children, coming off as forced KickTheDog moments that were added just to keep him from being too sympathetic. However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains that followed lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making the novelty of a villain like Killmonger feel like a fresh new idea for the franchise. And furthermore, after Killmonger's defeat, T'challa subsequently showed genuine willingness to put in the effort to try to address Killmonger's arguments and bring about real change; whereas most of the other such villains that followed get defeated, only for the heroes and world at large to show no explicit sign of taking the villains' criticisms to heart and trying to make any changes to the status quo in response.

to:

* The MCU's increasing reliance on villains with sympathetic motives who go too far in their methods has become more and more criticized lately due to many viewers feeling this formula has become overused and that it makes the villains too sympathetic compared to the heroes, with many noting that these villains often make legitimate arguments but then act gratuitously evil to prove they're still the bad guy. The first notable case of this was Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains, but his portrayal had the same flaws, with many of his more evil acts, such as his murder of his girlfriend or threatening to kill children, coming off as forced KickTheDog moments that were added just to keep him from being too sympathetic. However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains that followed lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making the novelty of a villain like Killmonger feel like a fresh new idea for the franchise. And furthermore, after Killmonger's defeat, T'challa T'Challa subsequently showed genuine willingness to put in the effort to try to address Killmonger's arguments and bring about real change; whereas most of the other such villains that followed get defeated, only for the heroes and world at large to show no explicit sign of taking the villains' criticisms to heart and trying to make any changes to the status quo in response.
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* Some fans complain about how Phase 4 felt rather directionless given the absence of a clear villain or MythArc in contrast to the Infinity Saga. However, this was also true for much of the Infinity Saga with Thanos and the Infinity Stones taking a backseat. Prior to ''The Avengers'', the Phase 1 films were mostly tied together with cameos and background references. Even after the Avengers were assembled, much of Phase 2 focused more on sequels to the Avengers' solo films and introducing new heroes for the audiences. This downplayed continuity worked as most of the movies in the Infinity Saga were self-contained and enjoyable enough on their own. Conversely, Phase 4 suffers from the same level of ContinuityLockout that Phase 3 suffered from, while still feeling like it was ''also'' now FourLinesAllWaiting instead of a unified narrative. It didn't help matters that Phase 4 has more movies and now Disney+ shows in the same continuity, making it even more random and directionless. On top of that, whereas the Infinity Saga had Iron Man and Captain America as the main heroes to anchor the central narrative, the Multiverse Saga introduced dozens of heroes but not one to function as the new face of the saga, further adding to the sense of aimlessness.
* The MCU's increasing reliance on villains with sympathetic motives who go too far in their methods has become more and more criticized lately due to many viewers feeling this formula has become overused and that it makes the villains too sympathetic compared to the heroes, with many noting that these villains often make legitimate arguments but then act gratuitously evil to prove they're still the bad guy. The first notable case of this was Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains, but his portrayal had the same flaws, with many of his more evil acts, such as his murder of his girlfriend or threatening to kill children, coming off as forced KickTheDog moments that were added just to keep him from being too sympathetic. However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains that followed lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making the novelty of a villain like Killmonger feel like a fresh new idea for the franchise. And furthermore, after Killmonger's defeat, T'challa subsequently showed genuine willingness to put in the effort to try to address Killmonger's arguments and bring about real change; whereas most of the other such villains get defeated, only for the heroes and world at large to show no explicit sign of taking the villains' criticisms to heart and trying to make any changes to the status quo in response.

to:

* Some fans complain about how Phase 4 felt rather directionless given the absence of a clear villain or MythArc in contrast to the Infinity Saga. However, this was also true for much of the Infinity Saga with Thanos and the Infinity Stones taking a backseat. Prior to ''The Avengers'', the Phase 1 films were mostly tied together with cameos and background references. Even after the Avengers were assembled, much of Phase 2 focused more on sequels to the Avengers' solo films and introducing new heroes for the audiences. This downplayed continuity worked as most of the movies in the Infinity Saga were self-contained and enjoyable enough on their own. Conversely, Phase 4 suffers from the same level of ContinuityLockout that Phase 3 suffered from, while still feeling like it was ''also'' now FourLinesAllWaiting instead of a unified narrative. It didn't help matters that Phase 4 has more movies and now Disney+ shows in the same continuity, making it even more random and directionless. On top of that, whereas the Infinity Saga had Iron Man and Captain America as the main heroes to anchor the central narrative, the Multiverse Saga introduced dozens of heroes heroes, but not one didn't establish anyone to function as the new face of the saga, further adding to the sense of aimlessness.
* The MCU's increasing reliance on villains with sympathetic motives who go too far in their methods has become more and more criticized lately due to many viewers feeling this formula has become overused and that it makes the villains too sympathetic compared to the heroes, with many noting that these villains often make legitimate arguments but then act gratuitously evil to prove they're still the bad guy. The first notable case of this was Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains, but his portrayal had the same flaws, with many of his more evil acts, such as his murder of his girlfriend or threatening to kill children, coming off as forced KickTheDog moments that were added just to keep him from being too sympathetic. However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains that followed lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making the novelty of a villain like Killmonger feel like a fresh new idea for the franchise. And furthermore, after Killmonger's defeat, T'challa subsequently showed genuine willingness to put in the effort to try to address Killmonger's arguments and bring about real change; whereas most of the other such villains that followed get defeated, only for the heroes and world at large to show no explicit sign of taking the villains' criticisms to heart and trying to make any changes to the status quo in response.



* During Phases 4 and 5, a number of people began criticizing Marvel's tendency to hire lesser-known writers and directors to helm some of their major upcoming projects, with many feeling that their inexperience lead to diminished overall quality. Yet Marvel has always hired lesser-known filmmakers since the very beginning of the MCU, with directors and writers like Creator/JonFavreau, Creator/RyanCoogler, Creator/JamesGunn and Creator/TheRussoBrothers having only previously worked on smaller projects that hardly saw mainstream success. That said, it's worth pointing out that the above mentioned directors had some prior experience with action, drama and/or comedy that could easily be applied to the superhero genre. By contrast, many recent installments have been criticized for having the people in charge of it not even meeting ''that'' standard. Most notably, the writers on ''[[Series/SheHulkAttorneyAtLaw She-Hulk]]'' had no prior experience in writing legal comedies, Jeff Loveness's only major writing credits came from the comedic animated series ''WesternAnimation/RickAndMorty'' before penning the more serious ''Film/AntManAndTheWaspQuantumania'' and Creator/ChloeZhao never worked on movie with a budget north of $5 million before before helming the $200 million epic ''Film/{{Eternals}}''. Subsequently, the inexperience of post-Phase 3 creators in large-scale productions or specialized genres resulted in projects of diminishing quality, a fact that became very apparent when the Writer's Strike of 2023 revealed that Marvel Studios often exploited their inexperience to make them easier to adhere to executive mandates.

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* During Phases 4 and 5, a number of people began criticizing Marvel's tendency to hire lesser-known writers and directors to helm some of their major upcoming projects, with many feeling that their inexperience lead to diminished overall quality. Yet Marvel has always hired lesser-known filmmakers since the very beginning of the MCU, with directors and writers like Creator/JonFavreau, Creator/RyanCoogler, Creator/JamesGunn and Creator/TheRussoBrothers having only previously worked on smaller projects that hardly saw mainstream success. That said, it's worth pointing out that the above mentioned directors had some prior experience with action, drama and/or comedy that could easily be applied to the superhero genre. By contrast, many recent installments have been criticized for having the people in charge of it not even meeting ''that'' standard. Most notably, the writers on ''[[Series/SheHulkAttorneyAtLaw She-Hulk]]'' had no prior experience in writing legal comedies, Jeff Loveness's only major writing credits came from the comedic animated series ''WesternAnimation/RickAndMorty'' before penning the more serious ''Film/AntManAndTheWaspQuantumania'' and Creator/ChloeZhao never worked on a movie with a budget north of $5 million before before helming the $200 million epic ''Film/{{Eternals}}''. Subsequently, the inexperience of post-Phase 3 creators in large-scale productions or specialized genres resulted in projects of diminishing quality, a fact that became very apparent when the Writer's Strike of 2023 revealed that Marvel Studios often exploited their inexperience to make them easier more likely to adhere to executive mandates.
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* During Phases 4 and 5, a number of people began to criticizing Marvel's tendency to hire lesser-known writers and directors to helm some of their major upcoming projects, with many feeling that their inexperience lead to diminished overall quality. Yet Marvel has always hired lesser-known filmmakers since the very beginning of the MCU, with directors and writers like Creator/JonFavreau, Creator/RyanCoogler, Creator/JamesGunn and Creator/TheRussoBrothers having only previously worked on smaller projects that hardly saw mainstream success. That said, it's worth pointing out that the above mentioned directors had some prior experience with action, drama and/or comedy that could easily be applied to the superhero genre. By contrast, many recent installments have been criticized for having the people in charge of it not even meeting ''that'' standard. Most notably, the writers on ''[[Series/SheHulkAttorneyAtLaw She-Hulk]]'' had no prior experience in writing legal comedies, Jeff Loveness's only major writing credits came from the comedic animated series ''WesternAnimation/RickAndMorty'' before penning the more serious ''Film/AntManAndTheWaspQuantumania'' and Creator/ChloeZhao never worked on movie with a budget north of $5 million before before helming the $200 million epic ''Film/{{Eternals}}''. Subsequently, the inexperience of post-Phase 3 creators in large-scale productions or specialized genres resulted in projects of diminishing quality, a fact that became very apparent when the Writer's Strike of 2023 revealed that Marvel Studios often exploited their inexperience to make them easier to adhere to executive mandates.

to:

* During Phases 4 and 5, a number of people began to criticizing Marvel's tendency to hire lesser-known writers and directors to helm some of their major upcoming projects, with many feeling that their inexperience lead to diminished overall quality. Yet Marvel has always hired lesser-known filmmakers since the very beginning of the MCU, with directors and writers like Creator/JonFavreau, Creator/RyanCoogler, Creator/JamesGunn and Creator/TheRussoBrothers having only previously worked on smaller projects that hardly saw mainstream success. That said, it's worth pointing out that the above mentioned directors had some prior experience with action, drama and/or comedy that could easily be applied to the superhero genre. By contrast, many recent installments have been criticized for having the people in charge of it not even meeting ''that'' standard. Most notably, the writers on ''[[Series/SheHulkAttorneyAtLaw She-Hulk]]'' had no prior experience in writing legal comedies, Jeff Loveness's only major writing credits came from the comedic animated series ''WesternAnimation/RickAndMorty'' before penning the more serious ''Film/AntManAndTheWaspQuantumania'' and Creator/ChloeZhao never worked on movie with a budget north of $5 million before before helming the $200 million epic ''Film/{{Eternals}}''. Subsequently, the inexperience of post-Phase 3 creators in large-scale productions or specialized genres resulted in projects of diminishing quality, a fact that became very apparent when the Writer's Strike of 2023 revealed that Marvel Studios often exploited their inexperience to make them easier to adhere to executive mandates.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* The MCU's increasing reliance on villains with sympathetic motives who go too far in their methods has become more and more criticized lately due to many viewers feeling this formula has become overused and that it makes the villains too sympathetic compared to the heroes, with many noting that these villains often make legitimate arguments but then act gratuitously evil to prove they're still the bad guy. The first notable case of this was Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains, but his portrayal had the same flaws, with many of his more evil acts, such as his murder of his girlfriend or threatening to kill children, coming off as forced KickTheDog moments that were added just to keep him from being too sympathetic. However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains that followed lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making the novelty of a villain like Killmonger feel like a fresh new idea for the franchise. And furthermore, after Killmonger's defeat, T'challa subsequently showed genuine willingness to put in the effort to try to address Killmonger's arguments and bring about real change; whereas most of the other such villains get defeated, only for the heroes and world at large to show now explicit sign of taking the villains' criticisms to heart and trying to make any changes to the status quo in response.

to:

* The MCU's increasing reliance on villains with sympathetic motives who go too far in their methods has become more and more criticized lately due to many viewers feeling this formula has become overused and that it makes the villains too sympathetic compared to the heroes, with many noting that these villains often make legitimate arguments but then act gratuitously evil to prove they're still the bad guy. The first notable case of this was Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains, but his portrayal had the same flaws, with many of his more evil acts, such as his murder of his girlfriend or threatening to kill children, coming off as forced KickTheDog moments that were added just to keep him from being too sympathetic. However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains that followed lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making the novelty of a villain like Killmonger feel like a fresh new idea for the franchise. And furthermore, after Killmonger's defeat, T'challa subsequently showed genuine willingness to put in the effort to try to address Killmonger's arguments and bring about real change; whereas most of the other such villains get defeated, only for the heroes and world at large to show now no explicit sign of taking the villains' criticisms to heart and trying to make any changes to the status quo in response.
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* The later movies, especially in Phase 2, are often criticized for having flat, one-note villains like [[Film/ThorTheDarkWorld Malekith]] and [[Film/GuardiansOfTheGalaxy2014 Ronan the Accuser]]. This is likely because Creator/TomHiddleston's portrayal of ComicBook/{{Loki}} wound up becoming a BreakoutVillain in ''Film/{{Thor}}'' and (to a greater extent) ''Film/{{The Avengers 2012}}'' by having depth and dimension; prior to that, none of the villains (Obadiah Stane, Abomination, Ivan Vanko, and the ComicBook/RedSkull) were all that memorable. Following Loki's popularity, however, audiences were far less tolerant of generic villainy, especially considering that SerialEscalation made the stakes so ludicrously high that there was no way they could succeed. It should be noted that audiences tolerated the weak villains in Phase 1 because it was seen as an acceptable trade-off for focusing on the introductory character arcs of the heroes; by Phase 2 when the hero arcs become less important, fans were less willing to overlook the weaker villains. This would be corrected by Phase 3 and 4 films such as ''Film/GuardiansOfTheGalaxyVol2'', ''Film/SpiderManHomecoming'', ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', ''Film/AvengersInfinityWar'' and ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'' that eventually provided villains (Ego the Living Planet, Vulture, Killmonger, Thanos, and Wenwu respectively) with substance, if the positive critical response to them is anything to go by.

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* The later movies, especially Many of the movies in Phase 2, 2 are often criticized for having flat, one-note villains like [[Film/ThorTheDarkWorld Malekith]] and [[Film/GuardiansOfTheGalaxy2014 Ronan the Accuser]]. This is likely because Creator/TomHiddleston's portrayal of ComicBook/{{Loki}} wound up becoming a BreakoutVillain in ''Film/{{Thor}}'' and (to a greater extent) ''Film/{{The Avengers 2012}}'' by having depth and dimension; prior to that, none of the villains (Obadiah Stane, Abomination, Ivan Vanko, and the ComicBook/RedSkull) were all that memorable. Following Loki's popularity, however, audiences were far less tolerant of generic villainy, especially considering that SerialEscalation made the stakes so ludicrously high that there was no way they could succeed. It should be noted that audiences tolerated the weak villains in Phase 1 because it was seen as an acceptable trade-off for focusing on the introductory character arcs of the heroes; by Phase 2 when the hero arcs become less important, fans were less willing to overlook the weaker villains. This would be corrected by Phase 3 and 4 films such as ''Film/GuardiansOfTheGalaxyVol2'', ''Film/SpiderManHomecoming'', ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', ''Film/AvengersInfinityWar'' and ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'' that eventually provided villains (Ego the Living Planet, Vulture, Killmonger, Thanos, and Wenwu respectively) with substance, if the positive critical response to them is anything to go by.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* The MCU's increasing reliance on villains with sympathetic motives who go too far in their methods has become more and more criticized lately due to many viewers feeling this formula has become overused and that it makes the villains too sympathetic compared to the heroes, with many noting that these villains often make legitimate arguments but then act gratuitously evil to prove they're still the bad guy. The first notable case of this was Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains, but his portrayal had the same flaws, with many of his more evil acts, such as his murder of his girlfriend or threatening to kill children, coming off as forced KickTheDog moments that were added just to keep him from being too sympathetic.
* A common criticism of the franchise since Phase 3 was the overreliance on [=CGI=] that resulted in movies with [[SpecialEffectFailure bad visual effects]] and [[UnintentionalUncannyValley creepy-looking characters]]. Granted, the [=MCU=] has always relied on some kind of visual effect, as is standard in Hollywood tentpole movies, but the Phase 1 and 2 movies used [=CGI=] in moderate amounts alongside practical effects and when it made sense (i.e. the Iron Man suits had completely digital legs so that the actors can move better). However, the Phase 3 and 4 entries became increasingly reliant on [=CGI=] to the point that entire scenes, characters, props and costumes were completely digital. Even costumes that were previously practical props like Spider-Man's suit and Thor's helmet were replaced by completely digital constructs. Subsequently, while a Phase 1 movie like ''Iron Man'' may have around 800 VFX shots, a Phase 3 movie like ''Civil War'' can have as many as ''3000'' [=VFX=] shots. When combined with other challenges like the inclusion of digital de-aging, additional work on the Disney+ shows, hiring of directors without prior experience in tentpole movies, loss of talent and [=COVID=]-19 working restrictions, the effects in Phase 3 and 4 have only gotten worse with standouts like the poorly rendered final fight in ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'' and Axl's [[UnintentionalUncannyValley unintentionally uncanny]] head projection in ''Film/ThorLoveAndThunder''. Not helping matters is the rise of complaints from the VFX department being overworked and underpaid for their efforts, both throughout the industry and also at Marvel.

to:

* The MCU's increasing reliance on villains with sympathetic motives who go too far in their methods has become more and more criticized lately due to many viewers feeling this formula has become overused and that it makes the villains too sympathetic compared to the heroes, with many noting that these villains often make legitimate arguments but then act gratuitously evil to prove they're still the bad guy. The first notable case of this was Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains, but his portrayal had the same flaws, with many of his more evil acts, such as his murder of his girlfriend or threatening to kill children, coming off as forced KickTheDog moments that were added just to keep him from being too sympathetic.
sympathetic. However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains that followed lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making the novelty of a villain like Killmonger feel like a fresh new idea for the franchise. And furthermore, after Killmonger's defeat, T'challa subsequently showed genuine willingness to put in the effort to try to address Killmonger's arguments and bring about real change; whereas most of the other such villains get defeated, only for the heroes and world at large to show now explicit sign of taking the villains' criticisms to heart and trying to make any changes to the status quo in response.
* A common criticism of the franchise since Phase 3 was the overreliance on [=CGI=] that resulted in movies with [[SpecialEffectFailure bad visual effects]] and [[UnintentionalUncannyValley creepy-looking characters]]. Granted, the [=MCU=] has always relied on some kind of visual effect, as is standard in Hollywood tentpole movies, but the Phase 1 and 2 movies used [=CGI=] in moderate amounts alongside practical effects and when it made sense (i.e. the Iron Man suits had completely digital legs so that the actors can move better). However, the Phase 3 and 4 entries became increasingly reliant on [=CGI=] to the point that entire scenes, characters, props and costumes were completely digital. Even costumes that were previously practical props like Spider-Man's suit and Thor's helmet were replaced by completely digital constructs. Subsequently, while a Phase 1 movie like ''Iron Man'' may have around 800 VFX shots, a Phase 3 movie like ''Civil War'' can have as many as ''3000'' [=VFX=] shots. When combined with other challenges like the inclusion of digital de-aging, additional work on the Disney+ shows, hiring of directors without prior experience in tentpole movies, loss of talent and [=COVID=]-19 working restrictions, the effects in Phase 3 and 4 have only gotten worse with standouts like the poorly rendered final fight in ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'' and Axl's [[UnintentionalUncannyValley unintentionally uncanny]] head projection in ''Film/ThorLoveAndThunder''. Not helping matters is the rise of complaints from the VFX department being overworked and underpaid for their efforts, both at Marvel and also throughout the industry and also at Marvel.rest of the film industry.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* The MCU's increasing reliance on villains with sympathetic motives who go too far in their methods has become more and more criticized lately due to many viewers feeling this formula has become overused and that it makes the villains too sympathetic compared to the heroes, with many noting that these villains often make legitimate arguments but then act gratuitously evil to prove they're still the bad guy. The first notable case of this was Killmonger from Black Panther, who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains, but his portrayal had the same flaws, with many of his more evil acts, such as his murder of his girlfriend or threatening to kill children, coming off as forced KickTheDog moments that were added just to keep him from being too sympathetic.

to:

* The MCU's increasing reliance on villains with sympathetic motives who go too far in their methods has become more and more criticized lately due to many viewers feeling this formula has become overused and that it makes the villains too sympathetic compared to the heroes, with many noting that these villains often make legitimate arguments but then act gratuitously evil to prove they're still the bad guy. The first notable case of this was Killmonger from Black Panther, ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains, but his portrayal had the same flaws, with many of his more evil acts, such as his murder of his girlfriend or threatening to kill children, coming off as forced KickTheDog moments that were added just to keep him from being too sympathetic.
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None

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* The MCU's increasing reliance on villains with sympathetic motives who go too far in their methods has become more and more criticized lately due to many viewers feeling this formula has become overused and that it makes the villains too sympathetic compared to the heroes, with many noting that these villains often make legitimate arguments but then act gratuitously evil to prove they're still the bad guy. The first notable case of this was Killmonger from Black Panther, who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains, but his portrayal had the same flaws, with many of his more evil acts, such as his murder of his girlfriend or threatening to kill children, coming off as forced KickTheDog moments that were added just to keep him from being too sympathetic.
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This huge list of actors coming back for a Role Reprise in upcoming Marvel installments is in no way relevant to the entry.


* ''Series/WandaVision'' came under heavy flak for revealing that [[spoiler:Creator/EvanPeter's Quicksilver]], like ''Film/IronMan3'''s Mandarin before him, [[spoiler:was a fake, being a man named "[[UnfortunateNames Ralph Bohner]]" whom Agatha Harkness brainwashed and empowered to drive Wanda over the edge and reveal her true power.]] The Mandarin twist, however, was somewhat more forgivable due to it working surprisingly well as a commentary on the original comic depiction's YellowPeril tropes, Creator/BenKingsley giving a memorable performance in the role, the Mandarin having never before been portrayed in live action at all beforehand (let alone by Kingsley) and thus not had any particularly strong expectations from prior portrayals to live up to, and [[spoiler:the fact that the whole business was eventually further retconned in ''Film/AllHailTheKing'' about how a more TruerToTheText Mandarin was still out and about (who in turn would ultimately finally see the light of day in ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'')]]. The twist with [[spoiler:Evan Peters' Quicksilver]], on the other hand, was much harder to forgive since [[spoiler:Peters was reprising his role from the ''Film/XMenFilmSeries'' in lieu of Creator/AaronTaylorJohnson (whose own take on Quicksilver in the MCU had been dead since ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'' and was therefore unavailable to soften the blow from the twist). And this same film series had not only been influential towards the start of the comic book film genre that eventually made the MCU possible, but also unceremoniously cut short by Disney's buyout of Fox and ended on a poor note with the terrible reception towards ''Film/DarkPhoenix'' and ''Film/TheNewMutants''.]] Combined with the fact that [[spoiler:Peter's Quicksilver was a preestablished character who was an EnsembleDarkHorse for his {{Signature Scene}}s in ''Film/XMenDaysOfFuturePast'' and ''Film/XMenApocalypse'']], fans took umbrage to the twist not only because it was a major fakeout, but also because it came across as extremely disrespectful towards [[spoiler:the ''X-Men'' films that Disney [[UngratefulBastard not only owed the MCU's ability to exist to]], but had [[KickThemWhileTheyAreDown also already been responsible for ending]]--especially since said twist lead to nothing but a dick joke.]] Tellingly, [[ImprovedSecondAttempt the studio didn't make the same mistake twice]]; ''Film/SpiderManNoWayHome'' brought back ''all five'' original actors to reprise their roles as the villains of ''Film/SpiderManTrilogy'' and ''Film/TheAmazingSpiderManSeries'', as well as Creator/CharlieCox as Matt Murdock from the ''Series/Daredevil2015'' series, [[spoiler:both Creator/TobeyMaguire and Creator/AndrewGarfield as their respective Spider-Men, and Creator/TomHardy as his iteration of Venom]]. ''Film/DoctorStrangeInTheMultiverseOfMadness'' followed suit with [[spoiler:Creator/PatrickStewart returning as Professor X (albeit a TruerToTheText version and not the ''X-Men'' films iteration)]], and the upcoming ''Deadpool 3'' is not only bringing back Creator/RyanReynolds as Deadpool, but ''Creator/HughJackman'' as Wolverine and Creator/JenniferGarner as Elektra.

to:

* ''Series/WandaVision'' came under heavy flak for revealing that [[spoiler:Creator/EvanPeter's Quicksilver]], like ''Film/IronMan3'''s Mandarin before him, [[spoiler:was a fake, being a man named "[[UnfortunateNames Ralph Bohner]]" whom Agatha Harkness brainwashed and empowered to drive Wanda over the edge and reveal her true power.]] The Mandarin twist, however, was somewhat more forgivable due to it working surprisingly well as a commentary on the original comic depiction's YellowPeril tropes, Creator/BenKingsley giving a memorable performance in the role, the Mandarin having never before been portrayed in live action at all beforehand (let alone by Kingsley) and thus not had any particularly strong expectations from prior portrayals to live up to, and [[spoiler:the fact that the whole business was eventually further retconned in ''Film/AllHailTheKing'' about how a more TruerToTheText Mandarin was still out and about (who in turn would ultimately finally see the light of day in ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'')]]. The twist with [[spoiler:Evan Peters' Quicksilver]], on the other hand, was much harder to forgive since [[spoiler:Peters was reprising his role from the ''Film/XMenFilmSeries'' in lieu of Creator/AaronTaylorJohnson (whose own take on Quicksilver in the MCU had been dead since ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'' and was therefore unavailable to soften the blow from the twist). And this same film series had not only been influential towards the start of the comic book film genre that eventually made the MCU possible, but also unceremoniously cut short by Disney's buyout of Fox and ended on a poor note with the terrible reception towards ''Film/DarkPhoenix'' and ''Film/TheNewMutants''.]] Combined with the fact that [[spoiler:Peter's Quicksilver was a preestablished character who was an EnsembleDarkHorse for his {{Signature Scene}}s in ''Film/XMenDaysOfFuturePast'' and ''Film/XMenApocalypse'']], fans took umbrage to the twist not only because it was a major fakeout, but also because it came across as extremely disrespectful towards [[spoiler:the ''X-Men'' films that Disney [[UngratefulBastard not only owed the MCU's ability to exist to]], but had [[KickThemWhileTheyAreDown also already been responsible for ending]]--especially since said twist lead to nothing but a dick joke.]] Tellingly, [[ImprovedSecondAttempt the studio didn't make the same mistake twice]]; ''Film/SpiderManNoWayHome'' brought back ''all five'' original actors to reprise their roles as the villains of ''Film/SpiderManTrilogy'' and ''Film/TheAmazingSpiderManSeries'', as well as Creator/CharlieCox as Matt Murdock from the ''Series/Daredevil2015'' series, [[spoiler:both Creator/TobeyMaguire and Creator/AndrewGarfield as their respective Spider-Men, and Creator/TomHardy as his iteration of Venom]]. ''Film/DoctorStrangeInTheMultiverseOfMadness'' followed suit with [[spoiler:Creator/PatrickStewart returning as Professor X (albeit a TruerToTheText version and not the ''X-Men'' films iteration)]], and the upcoming ''Deadpool 3'' is not only bringing back Creator/RyanReynolds as Deadpool, but ''Creator/HughJackman'' as Wolverine and Creator/JenniferGarner as Elektra.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
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* ''Series/WandaVision'' came under heavy flak for revealing that [[spoiler:Creator/EvanPeter's Quicksilver]], like ''Film/IronMan3'''s Mandarin before him, [[spoiler:was a fake, being a man named "[[UnfortunateNames Ralph Bohner]]" whom Agatha Harkness brainwashed and empowered to drive Wanda over the edge and reveal her true power.]] The Mandarin twist, however, was somewhat more forgivable due to it working surprisingly well as a commentary on the original comic depiction's YellowPeril tropes, Creator/BenKingsley giving a memorable performance in the role, the Mandarin having never before been portrayed in live action at all beforehand (let alone by Kingsley) and thus not had any particularly strong expectations from prior portrayals to live up to, and [[spoiler:the fact that the whole business was eventually further retconned in ''Film/AllHailTheKing'' about how a more TruerToTheText Mandarin was still out and about (who in turn would ultimately finally see the light of day in ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'')]]. The twist with [[spoiler:Evan Peters' Quicksilver]], on the other hand, was much harder to forgive since [[spoiler:Peters was reprising his role from the ''Film/XMenFilmSeries'' in lieu of Creator/AaronTaylorJohnson (whose own take on Quicksilver in the MCU had been dead since ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'' and was therefore unavailable to soften the blow from the twist). And this same film series had not only been influential towards the start of the comic book film genre that eventually made the MCU possible, but also unceremoniously cut short by Disney's buyout of Fox and ended on a poor note with the terrible reception towards ''Film/DarkPhoenix'' and ''Film/TheNewMutants''.]] Combined with the fact that [[spoiler:Peter's Quicksilver was a preestablished character who was an EnsembleDarkHorse for his {{Signature Scene}}s in ''Film/XMenDaysOfFuturePast'' and ''Film/XMenApocalypse'']], fans took umbrage to the twist not only because it was a major fakeout, but also because it came across as extremely disrespectful towards [[spoiler:the ''X-Men'' films that Disney [[UngratefulBastard not only owed the MCU's ability to exist to]], but had [[KickThemWhileTheyAreDown also already been responsible for ending]]--especially since said twist lead to nothing but a dick joke.]] Tellingly, [[ImprovedSecondAttempt the studio didn't make the same mistake twice]]; ''Film/SpiderManNoWayHome'' brought back ''all five'' original actors to reprise their roles as the villains of ''Film/SpiderManTrilogy'' and ''Film/TheAmazingSpiderManSeries'', as well as Creator/CharlieCox as Matt Murdock from the ''Series/Daredevil2015'' series, [[spoiler:both Creator/TobeyMaguire and Creator/AndrewGarfield as their respective Spider-Men, and Creator/TomHardy as his iteration of Venom]]. ''Film/DoctorStrangeInTheMultiverseOfMadness'' followed suit with [[spoiler:Creator/PatrickStewart returning as Professor X (albeit a TruerToTheText version and not the ''X-Men'' films iteration)]], and the upcoming ''Deadpool 3'' is not only bringing back Creator/RyanReynolds as Deadpool, but ''Creator/HughJackman'' as Wolverine!

to:

* ''Series/WandaVision'' came under heavy flak for revealing that [[spoiler:Creator/EvanPeter's Quicksilver]], like ''Film/IronMan3'''s Mandarin before him, [[spoiler:was a fake, being a man named "[[UnfortunateNames Ralph Bohner]]" whom Agatha Harkness brainwashed and empowered to drive Wanda over the edge and reveal her true power.]] The Mandarin twist, however, was somewhat more forgivable due to it working surprisingly well as a commentary on the original comic depiction's YellowPeril tropes, Creator/BenKingsley giving a memorable performance in the role, the Mandarin having never before been portrayed in live action at all beforehand (let alone by Kingsley) and thus not had any particularly strong expectations from prior portrayals to live up to, and [[spoiler:the fact that the whole business was eventually further retconned in ''Film/AllHailTheKing'' about how a more TruerToTheText Mandarin was still out and about (who in turn would ultimately finally see the light of day in ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'')]]. The twist with [[spoiler:Evan Peters' Quicksilver]], on the other hand, was much harder to forgive since [[spoiler:Peters was reprising his role from the ''Film/XMenFilmSeries'' in lieu of Creator/AaronTaylorJohnson (whose own take on Quicksilver in the MCU had been dead since ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'' and was therefore unavailable to soften the blow from the twist). And this same film series had not only been influential towards the start of the comic book film genre that eventually made the MCU possible, but also unceremoniously cut short by Disney's buyout of Fox and ended on a poor note with the terrible reception towards ''Film/DarkPhoenix'' and ''Film/TheNewMutants''.]] Combined with the fact that [[spoiler:Peter's Quicksilver was a preestablished character who was an EnsembleDarkHorse for his {{Signature Scene}}s in ''Film/XMenDaysOfFuturePast'' and ''Film/XMenApocalypse'']], fans took umbrage to the twist not only because it was a major fakeout, but also because it came across as extremely disrespectful towards [[spoiler:the ''X-Men'' films that Disney [[UngratefulBastard not only owed the MCU's ability to exist to]], but had [[KickThemWhileTheyAreDown also already been responsible for ending]]--especially since said twist lead to nothing but a dick joke.]] Tellingly, [[ImprovedSecondAttempt the studio didn't make the same mistake twice]]; ''Film/SpiderManNoWayHome'' brought back ''all five'' original actors to reprise their roles as the villains of ''Film/SpiderManTrilogy'' and ''Film/TheAmazingSpiderManSeries'', as well as Creator/CharlieCox as Matt Murdock from the ''Series/Daredevil2015'' series, [[spoiler:both Creator/TobeyMaguire and Creator/AndrewGarfield as their respective Spider-Men, and Creator/TomHardy as his iteration of Venom]]. ''Film/DoctorStrangeInTheMultiverseOfMadness'' followed suit with [[spoiler:Creator/PatrickStewart returning as Professor X (albeit a TruerToTheText version and not the ''X-Men'' films iteration)]], and the upcoming ''Deadpool 3'' is not only bringing back Creator/RyanReynolds as Deadpool, but ''Creator/HughJackman'' as Wolverine!Wolverine and Creator/JenniferGarner as Elektra.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''Series/WandaVision'' came under heavy flak for revealing that [[spoiler:Creator/EvanPeter's Quicksilver]], like ''Film/IronMan3'''s Mandarin before him, [[spoiler:was a fake, being a man named "[[UnfortunateNames Ralph Bohner]]" whom Agatha Harkness brainwashed and empowered to drive Wanda over the edge and reveal her true power.]] The Mandarin twist, however, was somewhat more forgivable due to it working surprisingly well as a commentary on the original comic depiction's YellowPeril tropes, Creator/BenKingsley giving a memorable performance in the role, the Mandarin having never before been portrayed in live action at all beforehand (let alone by Kingsley) and thus not had any particularly strong expectations from prior portrayals to live up to, and [[the fact that the whole business was eventually further retconned in ''Film/AllHailTheKing'' about how a more TruerToTheText Mandarin was still out and about (who in turn would ultimately finally see the light of day in ''Film/ShangChiLegendOfTheTenRings'')]]. The twist with [[spoiler:Evan Peters' Quicksilver]], on the other hand, was much harder to forgive since [[spoiler:Peters was reprising his role from the ''Film/XMenFilmSeries'' in lieu of Creator/AaronTaylorJohnson (whose own take on Quicksilver in the MCU had been dead since ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'' and was therefore unavailable to soften the blow from the twist). And this same film series had not only been influential towards the start of the comic book film genre that eventually made the MCU possible, but also unceremoniously cut short by Disney's buyout of Fox and ended on a poor note with the terrible reception towards ''Film/DarkPhoenix'' and ''Film/TheNewMutants''.]] Combined with the fact that [[spoiler:Peter's Quicksilver was a preestablished character who was an EnsembleDarkHorse for his {{Signature Scene}}s in ''Film/XMenDaysOfFuturePast'' and ''Film/XMenApocalypse'']], fans took umbrage to the twist not only because it was a major fakeout, but also because it came across as extremely disrespectful towards [[spoiler:the ''X-Men'' films that Disney [[UngratefulBastard not only owed the MCU's ability to exist to]], but had [[KickThemWhileTheyAreDown also already been responsible for ending]]--especially since said twist lead to nothing but a dick joke.]] Tellingly, [[ImprovedSecondAttempt the studio didn't make the same mistake twice]]; ''Film/SpiderManNoWayHome'' brought back ''all five'' original actors to reprise their roles as the villains of ''Film/SpiderManTrilogy'' and ''Film/TheAmazingSpiderManSeries'', as well as Creator/CharlieCox as Matt Murdock from the ''Series/Daredevil2015'' series, [[spoiler:both Creator/TobeyMaguire and Creator/AndrewGarfield as their respective Spider-Men, and Creator/TomHardy as his iteration of Venom]]. ''Film/DoctorStrangeInTheMultiverseOfMadness'' followed suit with [[spoiler:Creator/PatrickStewart returning as Professor X (albeit a TruerToTheText version and not the ''X-Men'' films iteration)]], and the upcoming ''Deadpool 3'' is not only bringing back Creator/RyanReynolds as Deadpool, but ''Creator/HughJackman'' as Wolverine!

to:

* ''Series/WandaVision'' came under heavy flak for revealing that [[spoiler:Creator/EvanPeter's Quicksilver]], like ''Film/IronMan3'''s Mandarin before him, [[spoiler:was a fake, being a man named "[[UnfortunateNames Ralph Bohner]]" whom Agatha Harkness brainwashed and empowered to drive Wanda over the edge and reveal her true power.]] The Mandarin twist, however, was somewhat more forgivable due to it working surprisingly well as a commentary on the original comic depiction's YellowPeril tropes, Creator/BenKingsley giving a memorable performance in the role, the Mandarin having never before been portrayed in live action at all beforehand (let alone by Kingsley) and thus not had any particularly strong expectations from prior portrayals to live up to, and [[the [[spoiler:the fact that the whole business was eventually further retconned in ''Film/AllHailTheKing'' about how a more TruerToTheText Mandarin was still out and about (who in turn would ultimately finally see the light of day in ''Film/ShangChiLegendOfTheTenRings'')]].''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'')]]. The twist with [[spoiler:Evan Peters' Quicksilver]], on the other hand, was much harder to forgive since [[spoiler:Peters was reprising his role from the ''Film/XMenFilmSeries'' in lieu of Creator/AaronTaylorJohnson (whose own take on Quicksilver in the MCU had been dead since ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'' and was therefore unavailable to soften the blow from the twist). And this same film series had not only been influential towards the start of the comic book film genre that eventually made the MCU possible, but also unceremoniously cut short by Disney's buyout of Fox and ended on a poor note with the terrible reception towards ''Film/DarkPhoenix'' and ''Film/TheNewMutants''.]] Combined with the fact that [[spoiler:Peter's Quicksilver was a preestablished character who was an EnsembleDarkHorse for his {{Signature Scene}}s in ''Film/XMenDaysOfFuturePast'' and ''Film/XMenApocalypse'']], fans took umbrage to the twist not only because it was a major fakeout, but also because it came across as extremely disrespectful towards [[spoiler:the ''X-Men'' films that Disney [[UngratefulBastard not only owed the MCU's ability to exist to]], but had [[KickThemWhileTheyAreDown also already been responsible for ending]]--especially since said twist lead to nothing but a dick joke.]] Tellingly, [[ImprovedSecondAttempt the studio didn't make the same mistake twice]]; ''Film/SpiderManNoWayHome'' brought back ''all five'' original actors to reprise their roles as the villains of ''Film/SpiderManTrilogy'' and ''Film/TheAmazingSpiderManSeries'', as well as Creator/CharlieCox as Matt Murdock from the ''Series/Daredevil2015'' series, [[spoiler:both Creator/TobeyMaguire and Creator/AndrewGarfield as their respective Spider-Men, and Creator/TomHardy as his iteration of Venom]]. ''Film/DoctorStrangeInTheMultiverseOfMadness'' followed suit with [[spoiler:Creator/PatrickStewart returning as Professor X (albeit a TruerToTheText version and not the ''X-Men'' films iteration)]], and the upcoming ''Deadpool 3'' is not only bringing back Creator/RyanReynolds as Deadpool, but ''Creator/HughJackman'' as Wolverine!
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''Series/WandaVision'' came under heavy flak for revealing that [[spoiler:Creator/EvanPeter's Quicksilver]], like ''Film/IronMan3'''s Mandarin before him, [[spoiler:was a fake, being a man named "[[UnfortunateNames Ralph Bohner]]" whom Agatha Harkness brainwashed and empowered to drive Wanda over the edge and reveal her true power.]] Unlike with the Mandarin twist, whom fans have been far more forgiving for due to it being a commentary on the original comic depiction's YellowPeril tropes as well as Creator/BenKingsley giving a memorable performance, plus the fact that the Mandarin had never before been portrayed in live action at all beforehand (let alone by Kingsley), fans couldn't forgive the fact that [[spoiler:Peter's Quicksilver was fake because he was reprising his role from the ''Film/XMenFilmSeries'' in lieu of Creator/AaronTaylorJohnson--and said series had not only been influential towards the start of the comic book film genre that eventually made the MCU possible, but also had been unceremoniously cut short by Disney's buyout of Fox and ended on a poor note with the terrible reception towards ''Film/DarkPhoenix'' and ''Film/TheNewMutants''.]] Combined with the fact that [[spoiler:Peter's Quicksilver was a preestablished character who was an EnsembleDarkHorse for his {{Signature Scene}}s in ''Film/XMenDaysOfFuturePast'' and ''Film/XMenApocalypse'']], fans took umbrage not just as such a fakeout, but seeing the twist as a spit in the face towards [[spoiler:the ''X-Men'' films that Disney was responsible for ending--especially since said twist lead to nothing but a dick joke.]] Tellingly, the studio didn't make the same mistake twice; ''Film/SpiderManNoWayHome'' brought back ''all five'' original actors to reprise their roles as the villains of ''Film/SpiderManTrilogy'' and ''Film/TheAmazingSpiderManSeries'', as well as Creator/CharlieCox as Matt Murdock from the ''Series/Daredevil2015'' series, [[spoiler:both Creator/TobeyMaguire and Creator/AndrewGarfield as their respective Spider-Men, and Creator/TomHardy as his iteration of Venom]]. ''Film/DoctorStrangeInTheMultiverseOfMadness'' followed suit with [[spoiler:Creator/PatrickStewart returning as Professor X (albeit a TruerToTheText version and not the ''X-Men'' films iteration)]], and the upcoming ''Deadpool 3'' is not only bringing back Creator/RyanReynolds as Deadpool, but ''Creator/HughJackman'' as Wolverine!
* ''[[Series/MsMarvel2022 Ms. Marvel]]'' faced backlash for changing Kamala Khan's powers from shape-shifting/size-altering to hard-light constructs. The franchise had likewise altered characters' powers with Scarlet Witch and Captain Marvel (Monica Rambeau). Scarlet Witch went from magical, probability-altering hex-bolts as her primary power to telekinesis and mind-control from the Mind Stone. Captain Marvel went from {{s|upersenses}}ensing, [[FlyingFirePower projecting]] and [[{{Invisibility}} shifting]] into [[IntangibleMan energy]] from the [[MagnetismManipulation entire electromagnetic spectrum]] at [[SuperSpeed light speed]] to nebulous "energy manipulation" that [[AdaptationalWimp mostly amounts]] to [[LightEmUp pretty light shows]]. But while Scarlet Witch's case could be written off as [[PragmaticAdaptation pragmatism]] to simplify a confusing power for mainstream audiences and make it more visually impressive, and Captain Marvel's just being [[StoryBreakerPower plain easier to deal with all around]], Comic!Kamala's powers are simpler than her MCU counterpart's. Many were looking forward to seeing her use her elasticity powers[[note]]A power she originally possessed due to the then-absence of a more notable hero with that same power: [[ComicBook/FantasticFour Mister Fantastic]][[/note]] in live-action. Wanda's powers were also unique in the MCU, at least at the time and in scale. Monica was given powers that mostly resemble her comic book counterpart as one of several company wide {{authors saving throw}}s after critics started calling out Marvel for [[DemotedToExtra shafting]] the character [[ComicBookLimbo for decades]]. Kamala's colorful, energy-based powers[[note]]A change not only made due to the announcement of a planned ''Fantastic Four'' film but one that was made [[RetCanon canon]] when Ms. Marvel died and got revived in the comics to be more in-line with her MCU depiction[[/note]] by contrast aren't just inaccurate but also struggle to stand out after ''Film/{{Eternals}}'' and ''Film/{{Captain Marvel|2019}}''.

to:

* ''Series/WandaVision'' came under heavy flak for revealing that [[spoiler:Creator/EvanPeter's Quicksilver]], like ''Film/IronMan3'''s Mandarin before him, [[spoiler:was a fake, being a man named "[[UnfortunateNames Ralph Bohner]]" whom Agatha Harkness brainwashed and empowered to drive Wanda over the edge and reveal her true power.]] Unlike with the The Mandarin twist, whom fans have been far however, was somewhat more forgiving for forgivable due to it being working surprisingly well as a commentary on the original comic depiction's YellowPeril tropes as well as tropes, Creator/BenKingsley giving a memorable performance, plus performance in the fact that role, the Mandarin had having never before been portrayed in live action at all beforehand (let alone by Kingsley), fans couldn't forgive the Kingsley) and thus not had any particularly strong expectations from prior portrayals to live up to, and [[the fact that [[spoiler:Peter's Quicksilver the whole business was fake because he eventually further retconned in ''Film/AllHailTheKing'' about how a more TruerToTheText Mandarin was still out and about (who in turn would ultimately finally see the light of day in ''Film/ShangChiLegendOfTheTenRings'')]]. The twist with [[spoiler:Evan Peters' Quicksilver]], on the other hand, was much harder to forgive since [[spoiler:Peters was reprising his role from the ''Film/XMenFilmSeries'' in lieu of Creator/AaronTaylorJohnson--and said Creator/AaronTaylorJohnson (whose own take on Quicksilver in the MCU had been dead since ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'' and was therefore unavailable to soften the blow from the twist). And this same film series had not only been influential towards the start of the comic book film genre that eventually made the MCU possible, but also had been unceremoniously cut short by Disney's buyout of Fox and ended on a poor note with the terrible reception towards ''Film/DarkPhoenix'' and ''Film/TheNewMutants''.]] Combined with the fact that [[spoiler:Peter's Quicksilver was a preestablished character who was an EnsembleDarkHorse for his {{Signature Scene}}s in ''Film/XMenDaysOfFuturePast'' and ''Film/XMenApocalypse'']], fans took umbrage to the twist not just as such only because it was a major fakeout, but seeing the twist also because it came across as a spit in the face extremely disrespectful towards [[spoiler:the ''X-Men'' films that Disney was [[UngratefulBastard not only owed the MCU's ability to exist to]], but had [[KickThemWhileTheyAreDown also already been responsible for ending--especially ending]]--especially since said twist lead to nothing but a dick joke.]] Tellingly, [[ImprovedSecondAttempt the studio didn't make the same mistake twice; twice]]; ''Film/SpiderManNoWayHome'' brought back ''all five'' original actors to reprise their roles as the villains of ''Film/SpiderManTrilogy'' and ''Film/TheAmazingSpiderManSeries'', as well as Creator/CharlieCox as Matt Murdock from the ''Series/Daredevil2015'' series, [[spoiler:both Creator/TobeyMaguire and Creator/AndrewGarfield as their respective Spider-Men, and Creator/TomHardy as his iteration of Venom]]. ''Film/DoctorStrangeInTheMultiverseOfMadness'' followed suit with [[spoiler:Creator/PatrickStewart returning as Professor X (albeit a TruerToTheText version and not the ''X-Men'' films iteration)]], and the upcoming ''Deadpool 3'' is not only bringing back Creator/RyanReynolds as Deadpool, but ''Creator/HughJackman'' as Wolverine!
* ''[[Series/MsMarvel2022 Ms. Marvel]]'' faced backlash for changing Kamala Khan's powers from shape-shifting/size-altering to hard-light constructs. The franchise had likewise altered characters' powers with Scarlet Witch and Captain Marvel (Monica Rambeau). Scarlet Witch went from magical, probability-altering hex-bolts as her primary power to telekinesis and mind-control from the Mind Stone. Captain Marvel went from {{s|upersenses}}ensing, [[FlyingFirePower projecting]] and [[{{Invisibility}} shifting]] into [[IntangibleMan energy]] from the [[MagnetismManipulation entire electromagnetic spectrum]] at [[SuperSpeed light speed]] to nebulous "energy manipulation" that [[AdaptationalWimp mostly amounts]] to [[LightEmUp pretty light shows]]. But while Scarlet Witch's case could be written off as [[PragmaticAdaptation pragmatism]] to simplify a confusing power for mainstream audiences and make it more visually impressive, and Captain Marvel's just being [[StoryBreakerPower plain easier to deal with all around]], Comic!Kamala's powers are simpler than her MCU counterpart's. Many were looking forward to seeing her use her elasticity powers[[note]]A power she originally possessed due to the then-absence of a more notable hero with that same power: [[ComicBook/FantasticFour Mister Fantastic]][[/note]] in live-action. Wanda's powers were also unique in the MCU, at least at the time and in scale. scale, whereas Monica was at least given powers that mostly resemble her comic book counterpart as one of several company wide {{authors saving throw}}s after critics started calling out Marvel for [[DemotedToExtra shafting]] the character [[ComicBookLimbo for decades]]. Kamala's colorful, energy-based powers[[note]]A change not only made due to the announcement of a planned ''Fantastic Four'' film but one that was made [[RetCanon canon]] when Ms. Marvel died and got revived in the comics to be more in-line with her MCU depiction[[/note]] depiction[[/note]], by contrast contrast, aren't just inaccurate but also struggle to stand out after ''Film/{{Eternals}}'' and ''Film/{{Captain Marvel|2019}}''.

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