Follow TV Tropes

Following

History FranchiseOriginalSin / MarvelCinematicUniverse

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** ''Film/AntManAndTheWasp'' had similarly subjected a much better received GenderFlip and backstory change upon Ghost, turning the character from a middle aged white man who served as an enemy of Iron Man to a younger woman named Ava Starr who ends up playing an antagonistic role to the film's titular duo. The creative liberties taken with Ghost, however, were easier to digest since Ghost's comic book counterpart was a very obscure flavor of the week villain with no set in stone personality, identity, or even backstory, which allowed the filmmakers much more leeway to reimagine the character as they saw fit, giving the character a much better defined personality, an actual name, and understandable motivations in the process. Taskmaster, however, was already a very well fleshed out and quite popular character in the comics. And as a result, while the changes made to Ghost helped improve on a less interesting character from the comics, the changes made to Taskmaster instead left the character feeling robbed of any agency or unique identity of their own, while neither conforming to fan expectations ''or'' improving upon the character in the process.

to:

** ''Film/AntManAndTheWasp'' had similarly subjected a much better received GenderFlip and backstory change upon Ghost, turning the character from a middle aged white man who served as an enemy of Iron Man to a younger woman named Ava Starr who ends up playing an antagonistic role to the film's titular duo. The creative liberties taken with Ghost, however, were easier to digest since Ghost's comic book counterpart was a very obscure flavor of the week flavor-of-the-week villain with no set in stone personality, identity, or even backstory, which allowed the filmmakers much more leeway to reimagine the character as they saw fit, giving the character a much better defined personality, an actual name, and understandable motivations in the process. Taskmaster, however, was already a very well fleshed out and quite popular character in the comics. And as a result, while the changes made to Ghost helped improve on a less interesting character from the comics, the changes made to Taskmaster instead left the character feeling robbed of any agency or unique identity of their own, while neither conforming to fan expectations ''or'' improving upon the character in the process.



** Some fans took issue with the [[TruerToTheText comics-accurate]] depiction of the Skrulls as ScaryDogmaticAliens who use shapeshifting to cause chaos and take over the Earth. However, Marvel had previously switched out a more 'unique' depiction of a traditionally villainous Marvel character with a more comic-accurate depiction with (say it with us now) Wenwu a.k.a. the real Mandarin. After ''Film/IronMan3'' gave audiences a [[spoiler:fake]] InNameOnly Mandarin, ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'' depicted a more comics-accurate Mandarin in the form of Wenwu. Like his comics counterpart, Wenwu is a magical Chinese warlord who fights with Kung Fu and runs a secret terrorist organization. However, despite the problematic YellowPeril aspects, Wenwu was embraced by audiences because he was still a cool villain with a nuanced personality as he genuinely loves his wife and respects his Chinese heritage. It also helps that he is the enemy of the Chinese-American Shang-Chi instead of the White American Tony Stark, thereby avoiding the uncomfortable East vs West racial subtext, and that the ''Iron Man 3'' Mandarin was originally a rather poorly-received and generic Marvel villain, so his replacement was getting rid of something fans were apathetic to at best. In contrast, the evil Skrulls in the ''Secret Invasion'' are depicted as dogmatic aliens whose sympathetic motives are undermined by their actions of living among humans to plotting genocide, and gets rid of their previous characterization as pitiable refugees fans had begun to grow attached to across multiple other Marvel series and movies (which, while explained as being a rogue faction led by Gravik, with good Skrulls such as Talos and the morally conflicted Gi'ah still making appearances, it can be rather jarring when watching the series and comparing them to their previous appearances). It also doesn't help that their plan to replace government figures drew uncomfortable comparisons to real-life conspiracies about government infiltration.

to:

** Some fans took issue with the [[TruerToTheText comics-accurate]] depiction of the Skrulls as ScaryDogmaticAliens who use shapeshifting to cause chaos and take over the Earth. However, Marvel had previously switched out a more 'unique' depiction of a traditionally villainous Marvel character with a more comic-accurate depiction with (say it with us now) Wenwu a.k.a. the real Mandarin. After ''Film/IronMan3'' gave audiences a [[spoiler:fake]] InNameOnly Mandarin, ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'' depicted a more comics-accurate Mandarin in the form of Wenwu. Like his comics counterpart, Wenwu is a magical Chinese warlord who fights with Kung Fu and runs a secret terrorist organization. However, despite the problematic YellowPeril aspects, Wenwu was embraced by audiences because he was still a cool yet nuanced villain with a nuanced personality as he personally fights alongside his minions, genuinely loves his wife and respects his Chinese heritage. It also helps that he is the enemy of the Chinese-American Shang-Chi instead of the White American Tony Stark, thereby avoiding the uncomfortable East vs West racial subtext, and subtext. It also helped that the ''Iron Man 3'' Mandarin was originally a rather poorly-received and generic divisive Marvel villain, so his replacement was getting rid of something fans were apathetic to at best.seen as an improvement. In contrast, the evil Skrulls in the ''Secret Invasion'' are depicted as dogmatic aliens whose sympathetic motives are undermined by their actions of living among humans to plotting genocide, and gets rid of their previous characterization as pitiable refugees fans had begun to grow attached to across multiple other Marvel series and movies (which, while explained as being a rogue faction led by Gravik, with good Skrulls such as Talos and the morally conflicted Gi'ah still making appearances, it can be rather jarring when watching the series and comparing them to their previous appearances). It also doesn't help that their plan to replace government figures drew uncomfortable comparisons to real-life conspiracies about government infiltration.that lead to political violence.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
It sure does come up a lot on this page...


** Some fans took issue with the [[TruerToTheText comics-accurate]] depiction of the Skrulls as ScaryDogmaticAliens who use shapeshifting to cause chaos and take over the Earth. However, Marvel had previously switched out a more 'unique' depiction of a traditionally villainous Marvel character with a more comic-accurate depiction with Wenwu a.k.a. the real Mandarin. After ''Film/IronMan3'' gave audiences a [[spoiler:fake]] InNameOnly Mandarin, ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'' depicted a more comics-accurate Mandarin in the form of Wenwu. Like his comics counterpart, Wenwu is a magical Chinese warlord who fights with Kung Fu and runs a secret terrorist organization. However, despite the problematic YellowPeril aspects, Wenwu was embraced by audiences because he was still a cool villain with a nuanced personality as he genuinely loves his wife and respects his Chinese heritage. It also helps that he is the enemy of the Chinese-American Shang-Chi instead of the White American Tony Stark, thereby avoiding the uncomfortable East vs West racial subtext, and that the ''Iron Man 3'' Mandarin was originally a rather poorly-received and generic Marvel villain, so his replacement was getting rid of something fans were apathetic to at best. In contrast, the evil Skrulls in the ''Secret Invasion'' are depicted as dogmatic aliens whose sympathetic motives are undermined by their actions of living among humans to plotting genocide, and gets rid of their previous characterization as pitiable refugees fans had begun to grow attached to across multiple other Marvel series and movies (which, while explained as being a rogue faction led by Gravik, with good Skrulls such as Talos and the morally conflicted Gi'ah still making appearances, it can be rather jarring when watching the series and comparing them to their previous appearances). It also doesn't help that their plan to replace government figures drew uncomfortable comparisons to real-life conspiracies about government infiltration.

to:

** Some fans took issue with the [[TruerToTheText comics-accurate]] depiction of the Skrulls as ScaryDogmaticAliens who use shapeshifting to cause chaos and take over the Earth. However, Marvel had previously switched out a more 'unique' depiction of a traditionally villainous Marvel character with a more comic-accurate depiction with (say it with us now) Wenwu a.k.a. the real Mandarin. After ''Film/IronMan3'' gave audiences a [[spoiler:fake]] InNameOnly Mandarin, ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'' depicted a more comics-accurate Mandarin in the form of Wenwu. Like his comics counterpart, Wenwu is a magical Chinese warlord who fights with Kung Fu and runs a secret terrorist organization. However, despite the problematic YellowPeril aspects, Wenwu was embraced by audiences because he was still a cool villain with a nuanced personality as he genuinely loves his wife and respects his Chinese heritage. It also helps that he is the enemy of the Chinese-American Shang-Chi instead of the White American Tony Stark, thereby avoiding the uncomfortable East vs West racial subtext, and that the ''Iron Man 3'' Mandarin was originally a rather poorly-received and generic Marvel villain, so his replacement was getting rid of something fans were apathetic to at best. In contrast, the evil Skrulls in the ''Secret Invasion'' are depicted as dogmatic aliens whose sympathetic motives are undermined by their actions of living among humans to plotting genocide, and gets rid of their previous characterization as pitiable refugees fans had begun to grow attached to across multiple other Marvel series and movies (which, while explained as being a rogue faction led by Gravik, with good Skrulls such as Talos and the morally conflicted Gi'ah still making appearances, it can be rather jarring when watching the series and comparing them to their previous appearances). It also doesn't help that their plan to replace government figures drew uncomfortable comparisons to real-life conspiracies about government infiltration.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Some fans have issues with the [[TruerToTheText comics-accurate]] depiction of the Skrulls as ScaryDogmaticAliens who use shapeshifting to cause chaos and take over the Earth. However, Marvel pulled a similarly more approach with the Wenwu a.k.a. the real Mandarin. After ''Film/IronMan3'' gave audiences a [[spoiler:fake]] InNameOnly Mandarin, ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'' depicted a more comics-accurate Mandarin in the form of Wenwu. Like his comics counterpart, Wenwu is a magical Chinese warlord who fights with Kung Fu and runs a secret terrorist organization. However, despite the problematic YellowPeril aspects, Wenwu was embraced by audiences because he was still a cool villain with a nuanced personality as he genuinely loves his wife and respects his Chinese heritage. It also helps that he is the enemy of the Chinese-American Shang-Chi instead of the White American Tony Stark, thereby avoiding the uncomfortable East vs West racial subtext, and that the ''Iron Man 3'' Mandarin was originally a rather poorly-received and generic Marvel villain, so his replacement was getting rid of something fans were apathetic to at best. In contrast, the evil Skrulls in the ''Secret Invasion'' are depicted as dogmatic aliens whose sympathetic motives are undermined by their actions of living among humans to plotting genocide, and gets rid of their previous characterization as pitiable refugees fans had begun to grow attached to across multiple other Marvel series and movies (which, while explained as being a rogue faction led by Gravik, with good Skrulls such as Talos and the morally conflicted Gi'ah still making appearances, it can be rather jarring when watching the series and comparing them to their previous appearances). It also doesn't help that their plan to replace government figures drew uncomfortable comparisons to real-life conspiracies about government infiltration.

to:

** Some fans have issues took issue with the [[TruerToTheText comics-accurate]] depiction of the Skrulls as ScaryDogmaticAliens who use shapeshifting to cause chaos and take over the Earth. However, Marvel pulled had previously switched out a similarly more approach 'unique' depiction of a traditionally villainous Marvel character with the a more comic-accurate depiction with Wenwu a.k.a. the real Mandarin. After ''Film/IronMan3'' gave audiences a [[spoiler:fake]] InNameOnly Mandarin, ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'' depicted a more comics-accurate Mandarin in the form of Wenwu. Like his comics counterpart, Wenwu is a magical Chinese warlord who fights with Kung Fu and runs a secret terrorist organization. However, despite the problematic YellowPeril aspects, Wenwu was embraced by audiences because he was still a cool villain with a nuanced personality as he genuinely loves his wife and respects his Chinese heritage. It also helps that he is the enemy of the Chinese-American Shang-Chi instead of the White American Tony Stark, thereby avoiding the uncomfortable East vs West racial subtext, and that the ''Iron Man 3'' Mandarin was originally a rather poorly-received and generic Marvel villain, so his replacement was getting rid of something fans were apathetic to at best. In contrast, the evil Skrulls in the ''Secret Invasion'' are depicted as dogmatic aliens whose sympathetic motives are undermined by their actions of living among humans to plotting genocide, and gets rid of their previous characterization as pitiable refugees fans had begun to grow attached to across multiple other Marvel series and movies (which, while explained as being a rogue faction led by Gravik, with good Skrulls such as Talos and the morally conflicted Gi'ah still making appearances, it can be rather jarring when watching the series and comparing them to their previous appearances). It also doesn't help that their plan to replace government figures drew uncomfortable comparisons to real-life conspiracies about government infiltration.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Some fans have issues with the [[TruerToTheText comics-accurate]] depiction of the Skrulls as ScaryDogmaticAliens who use shapeshifting to cause chaos and take over the Earth. However, Marvel pulled a similarly more approach with the Wenwu a.k.a. the real Mandarin. After ''Film/IronMan3'' gave audiences a [[spoiler:fake]] InNameOnly Mandarin, ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'' depicted a more comics-accurate Mandarin in the form of Wenwu. Like his comics counterpart, the similar Fu Manchu, Wenwu is a magical Chinese warlord who fights with Kung Fu and runs a secret terrorist organization. However, despite the problematic YellowPeril aspects, Wenwu was embraced by audiences because he was still a cool villain with nuanced personality as he genuinely loves his wife and respects his Chinese heritage. It also helps that he is the enemy of the Chinese-American Shang-Chi instead of the White American Tony Stark, thereby avoiding the uncomfortable East vs West racial subtext, and that the ''Iron Man 3'' Mandarin was originally a rather poorly-received and generic Marvel villain, so his replacement was getting rid of something fans were apathetic to at best. In contrast, the evil Skrulls in the ''Secret Invasion'' are depicted as dogmatic aliens whose sympathetic motives are undermined by their actions of living among humans to plotting genocide, and gets rid of their previous characterization as pitiable refugees fans had begun to grow attached to across multiple other Marvel series and movies. It also doesn't help that their plan to replace government figures drew uncomfortable comparisons to real-life conspiracies about government infiltration.

to:

** Some fans have issues with the [[TruerToTheText comics-accurate]] depiction of the Skrulls as ScaryDogmaticAliens who use shapeshifting to cause chaos and take over the Earth. However, Marvel pulled a similarly more approach with the Wenwu a.k.a. the real Mandarin. After ''Film/IronMan3'' gave audiences a [[spoiler:fake]] InNameOnly Mandarin, ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'' depicted a more comics-accurate Mandarin in the form of Wenwu. Like his comics counterpart, the similar Fu Manchu, Wenwu is a magical Chinese warlord who fights with Kung Fu and runs a secret terrorist organization. However, despite the problematic YellowPeril aspects, Wenwu was embraced by audiences because he was still a cool villain with a nuanced personality as he genuinely loves his wife and respects his Chinese heritage. It also helps that he is the enemy of the Chinese-American Shang-Chi instead of the White American Tony Stark, thereby avoiding the uncomfortable East vs West racial subtext, and that the ''Iron Man 3'' Mandarin was originally a rather poorly-received and generic Marvel villain, so his replacement was getting rid of something fans were apathetic to at best. In contrast, the evil Skrulls in the ''Secret Invasion'' are depicted as dogmatic aliens whose sympathetic motives are undermined by their actions of living among humans to plotting genocide, and gets rid of their previous characterization as pitiable refugees fans had begun to grow attached to across multiple other Marvel series and movies.movies (which, while explained as being a rogue faction led by Gravik, with good Skrulls such as Talos and the morally conflicted Gi'ah still making appearances, it can be rather jarring when watching the series and comparing them to their previous appearances). It also doesn't help that their plan to replace government figures drew uncomfortable comparisons to real-life conspiracies about government infiltration.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
...I mean, presumably? I'm not super plugged-in to Marvel anymore but I did know that people knew about and sort of liked the movie Skrulls.


** Some fans have issues with the [[TruerToTheText comics-accurate]] depiction of the Skrulls as ScaryDogmaticAliens who use shapeshifting to cause chaos and take over the Earth. However, Marvel pulled a similarly more approach with the Wenwu a.k.a. the real Mandarin. After ''Film/IronMan3'' gave audiences a [[spoiler:fake]] Mandarin, ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'' depicted a more comics-accurate Mandarin in the form of Wenwu. Like his comics counterpart, the similar Fu Manchu, Wenwu is a magical Chinese warlord who fights with Kung Fu and runs a secret terrorist organization. However, despite the problematic YellowPeril aspects, Wenwu was embraced by audiences because he was still a cool villain with nuanced personality as he genuinely loves his wife and respects his Chinese heritage. It also helps that he is the enemy of the Chinese-American Shang-Chi instead of the White American Tony Stark, thereby avoiding the uncomfortable East vs West racial subtext. In contrast, the evil Skrulls in the ''Secret Invasion'' are depicted as dogmatic aliens whose sympathetic motives are undermined by their actions of living among humans to plotting genocide. It also doesn't help that their plan to replace government figures drew uncomfortable comparisons to real-life conspiracies about government infiltration.

to:

** Some fans have issues with the [[TruerToTheText comics-accurate]] depiction of the Skrulls as ScaryDogmaticAliens who use shapeshifting to cause chaos and take over the Earth. However, Marvel pulled a similarly more approach with the Wenwu a.k.a. the real Mandarin. After ''Film/IronMan3'' gave audiences a [[spoiler:fake]] InNameOnly Mandarin, ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'' depicted a more comics-accurate Mandarin in the form of Wenwu. Like his comics counterpart, the similar Fu Manchu, Wenwu is a magical Chinese warlord who fights with Kung Fu and runs a secret terrorist organization. However, despite the problematic YellowPeril aspects, Wenwu was embraced by audiences because he was still a cool villain with nuanced personality as he genuinely loves his wife and respects his Chinese heritage. It also helps that he is the enemy of the Chinese-American Shang-Chi instead of the White American Tony Stark, thereby avoiding the uncomfortable East vs West racial subtext. subtext, and that the ''Iron Man 3'' Mandarin was originally a rather poorly-received and generic Marvel villain, so his replacement was getting rid of something fans were apathetic to at best. In contrast, the evil Skrulls in the ''Secret Invasion'' are depicted as dogmatic aliens whose sympathetic motives are undermined by their actions of living among humans to plotting genocide.genocide, and gets rid of their previous characterization as pitiable refugees fans had begun to grow attached to across multiple other Marvel series and movies. It also doesn't help that their plan to replace government figures drew uncomfortable comparisons to real-life conspiracies about government infiltration.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Flows better this way.


** The show was deviating too much from [[ComicBook/SecretInvasion2008 its source material]], specifically in regards to its smaller scale. However, ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' previously went with a similar downsized adaptational approach that didn't attract as much criticism. Like ''Secret Invasion'', ''Civil War'' deviated from [[ComicBook/CivilWar2006 the original comic]] to focus on a handful of heroes instead of a massive CrisisCrossover, most notably by omitting the Defenders and downplaying Spider-Man's role, not to mention naturally omitting characters related to the X-Men and Fantastic Four ([[ExiledFromContinuity whom Marvel Studios wasn't allowed to include at the time]] due to [[ScrewedByTheLawyers those characters having their film rights held by Fox]]). However, while some fans expressed disappointment over not seeing much beloved fan-favorite characters from the original comic storyline, ''Civil War'' improved on its source material by making its leads more sympathetic, as Steve's points about potentially corrupt world governments hampering the Avengers and Tony's points about keeping the Avengers in check to avoid collateral damage were [[BothSidesHaveAPoint both grounded in good reasons]] despite Tony's [[ItsAllMyFault guilt complex]] and Steve's [[ChronicHeroSyndrome savior complex]] keeping them from stopping the conflict. As such, the smaller scale actually benefitted by making the story more personal and the characters more sympathetic. On the other hand, fans weren't so forgiving with ''Secret Invasion'' because of how the show places so much focus on a handful of characters who weren't that interesting or sympathetic. The Skrulls, though justifiably angry that Fury broke his promise to find them a new home, went from living amongst humans with seemingly minimal issue to casually attempting genocide against humans. Likewise, while Fury certainly wasn't wrong about how [[FantasticRacism humanity would never have any guarantee of accepting the Skrulls]], he is similarly at his least sympathetic in ''Secret Invasion'' due to having used them as his personal spies, failed to fulfill the promise he and Carol had made to find them a new home in exchange, and [[spoiler:stolen the entire superhero community's DNA behind their backs for research purposes]]. Furthermore, the smaller scale hurts the stakes of the show as it couldn't adequately convey the global scale of the crisis due to focusing on a small handful of characters and filming in sparsely populated areas. So by omitting the original story's scope while failing to tell a personal story that improved on the source material, ''Secret Invasion'' made for a less engaging experience.

to:

** The show was criticized for deviating too much from [[ComicBook/SecretInvasion2008 its source material]], specifically in regards to its smaller scale. However, ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' previously went with a similar downsized adaptational approach that didn't attract as much criticism. Like ''Secret Invasion'', ''Civil War'' deviated from [[ComicBook/CivilWar2006 the original comic]] to focus on a handful of heroes instead of a massive CrisisCrossover, most notably by omitting the Defenders and downplaying Spider-Man's role, not to mention naturally omitting characters related to the X-Men and Fantastic Four ([[ExiledFromContinuity whom Marvel Studios wasn't allowed to include at the time]] due to [[ScrewedByTheLawyers those characters having their film rights held by Fox]]). However, while some fans expressed disappointment over not seeing much beloved fan-favorite characters from the original comic storyline, ''Civil War'' improved on its source material by making its leads more sympathetic, as Steve's points about potentially corrupt world governments hampering the Avengers and Tony's points about keeping the Avengers in check to avoid collateral damage were [[BothSidesHaveAPoint both grounded in good reasons]] despite Tony's [[ItsAllMyFault guilt complex]] and Steve's [[ChronicHeroSyndrome savior complex]] keeping them from stopping the conflict. As such, the smaller scale actually benefitted by making the story more personal and the characters more sympathetic. On the other hand, fans weren't so forgiving with ''Secret Invasion'' because of how the show places so much focus on a handful of characters who weren't that interesting or sympathetic. The Skrulls, though justifiably angry that Fury broke his promise to find them a new home, went from living amongst humans with seemingly minimal issue to casually attempting genocide against humans. Likewise, while Fury certainly wasn't wrong about how [[FantasticRacism humanity would never have any guarantee of accepting the Skrulls]], he is similarly at his least sympathetic in ''Secret Invasion'' due to having used them as his personal spies, failed to fulfill the promise he and Carol had made to find them a new home in exchange, and [[spoiler:stolen the entire superhero community's DNA behind their backs for research purposes]]. Furthermore, the smaller scale hurts the stakes of the show as it couldn't adequately convey the global scale of the crisis due to focusing on a small handful of characters and filming in sparsely populated areas. So by omitting the original story's scope while failing to tell a personal story that improved on the source material, ''Secret Invasion'' made for a less engaging experience.

Added: 4035

Changed: 2714

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''Series/{{Secret Invasion|2023}}'' was criticized for deviating too much from [[ComicBook/SecretInvasion2008 its source material]], specifically with its reduced cast size and scale. However, ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' previously went with a similar downsized adaptational approach that didn't attract as much criticism. Like ''Secret Invasion'', ''Civil War'' deviated from [[ComicBook/CivilWar2006 the original comic]] to focus on a handful of heroes instead of a massive CrisisCrossover, most notably by omitting the Defenders and downplaying Spider-Man's role, not to mention naturally omitting characters related to the X-Men and Fantastic Four ([[ExiledFromContinuity whom Marvel Studios wasn't allowed to include at the time]] due to [[ScrewedByTheLawyers those characters having their film rights held by Fox]]). However, while some fans expressed disappointment over not seeing much beloved fan-favorite characters from the original comic storyline, ''Civil War'' improved on its source material by making its leads more sympathetic, as Steve's points about potentially corrupt world governments hampering the Avengers and Tony's points about keeping the Avengers in check to avoid collateral damage were [[BothSidesHaveAPoint both grounded in good reasons]] despite Tony's [[ItsAllMyFault guilt complex]] and Steve's [[ChronicHeroSyndrome savior complex]] keeping them from stopping the conflict. As such, the smaller scale actually benefitted by making the story more personal and the characters more sympathetic. On the other hand, fans weren't so forgiving with ''Secret Invasion'' because of how the show places so much focus on a handful of characters who weren't that interesting or sympathetic. The Skrulls, though justifiably angry that Fury broke his promise to find them a new home, went from living amongst humans with seemingly minimal issue to casually attempting genocide against humans. Likewise, while Fury certainly wasn't wrong about how [[FantasticRacism humanity would never have any guarantee of accepting the Skrulls]], he is similarly at his least sympathetic in ''Secret Invasion'' due to having used them as his personal spies, failed to fulfill the promise he and Carol had made to find them a new home in exchange, and [[spoiler:stolen the entire superhero community's DNA behind their backs for research purposes]]. Furthermore, the smaller scale hurts the stakes of the show as it couldn't adequately convey the global scale of the crisis due to focusing on a small handful of characters and filming in sparsely populated areas. So by omitting the original story's scope while failing to tell a personal story that improved on the source material, ''Secret Invasion'' made for a less engaging experience.

to:

* ''Series/{{Secret Invasion|2023}}'' Invasion|2023}}''
** The show
was criticized for deviating too much from [[ComicBook/SecretInvasion2008 its source material]], specifically with in regards to its reduced cast size and smaller scale. However, ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' previously went with a similar downsized adaptational approach that didn't attract as much criticism. Like ''Secret Invasion'', ''Civil War'' deviated from [[ComicBook/CivilWar2006 the original comic]] to focus on a handful of heroes instead of a massive CrisisCrossover, most notably by omitting the Defenders and downplaying Spider-Man's role, not to mention naturally omitting characters related to the X-Men and Fantastic Four ([[ExiledFromContinuity whom Marvel Studios wasn't allowed to include at the time]] due to [[ScrewedByTheLawyers those characters having their film rights held by Fox]]). However, while some fans expressed disappointment over not seeing much beloved fan-favorite characters from the original comic storyline, ''Civil War'' improved on its source material by making its leads more sympathetic, as Steve's points about potentially corrupt world governments hampering the Avengers and Tony's points about keeping the Avengers in check to avoid collateral damage were [[BothSidesHaveAPoint both grounded in good reasons]] despite Tony's [[ItsAllMyFault guilt complex]] and Steve's [[ChronicHeroSyndrome savior complex]] keeping them from stopping the conflict. As such, the smaller scale actually benefitted by making the story more personal and the characters more sympathetic. On the other hand, fans weren't so forgiving with ''Secret Invasion'' because of how the show places so much focus on a handful of characters who weren't that interesting or sympathetic. The Skrulls, though justifiably angry that Fury broke his promise to find them a new home, went from living amongst humans with seemingly minimal issue to casually attempting genocide against humans. Likewise, while Fury certainly wasn't wrong about how [[FantasticRacism humanity would never have any guarantee of accepting the Skrulls]], he is similarly at his least sympathetic in ''Secret Invasion'' due to having used them as his personal spies, failed to fulfill the promise he and Carol had made to find them a new home in exchange, and [[spoiler:stolen the entire superhero community's DNA behind their backs for research purposes]]. Furthermore, the smaller scale hurts the stakes of the show as it couldn't adequately convey the global scale of the crisis due to focusing on a small handful of characters and filming in sparsely populated areas. So by omitting the original story's scope while failing to tell a personal story that improved on the source material, ''Secret Invasion'' made for a less engaging experience. experience.
** Some fans have issues with the [[TruerToTheText comics-accurate]] depiction of the Skrulls as ScaryDogmaticAliens who use shapeshifting to cause chaos and take over the Earth. However, Marvel pulled a similarly more approach with the Wenwu a.k.a. the real Mandarin. After ''Film/IronMan3'' gave audiences a [[spoiler:fake]] Mandarin, ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'' depicted a more comics-accurate Mandarin in the form of Wenwu. Like his comics counterpart, the similar Fu Manchu, Wenwu is a magical Chinese warlord who fights with Kung Fu and runs a secret terrorist organization. However, despite the problematic YellowPeril aspects, Wenwu was embraced by audiences because he was still a cool villain with nuanced personality as he genuinely loves his wife and respects his Chinese heritage. It also helps that he is the enemy of the Chinese-American Shang-Chi instead of the White American Tony Stark, thereby avoiding the uncomfortable East vs West racial subtext. In contrast, the evil Skrulls in the ''Secret Invasion'' are depicted as dogmatic aliens whose sympathetic motives are undermined by their actions of living among humans to plotting genocide. It also doesn't help that their plan to replace government figures drew uncomfortable comparisons to real-life conspiracies about government infiltration.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Speaking of Thor's reduction into comic relief, the first film to do that was actually ''Film/ThorRagnarok'', which played up a much more heavily comedic side than all of his previous appearances, and treated some CharacterDevelopment for laughs, like undercutting Bruce Banner's seemingly tragic permanent turn into the Hulk with a slapstick gag about him [[AmusingInjuries hitting the ground first]]. At the time, this was seen as a breath of fresh air because Thor had always been seen as too dull, especially in the controversial second film ''Film/ThorTheDarkWorld'', and ''Ragnarok'' allowed Creator/ChrisHemsworth to tap into his comedic talent. On top of that, this change worked to Thor's favor because it was an 80's GenreThrowback film that utilized The Hulk as the Creator/RobertDeNiro to Thor's Creator/CharlesGrodin (as per Creator/MarkRuffalo's comments about the two's ''Film/MidnightRun'' dynamic), giving a proper balance and still focusing on Thor's CharacterDevelopment as a more responsible and wiser man--especially compared to his brother. But come ''Love And Thunder'', this comedy was heavily overshadowing everything about Thor to the point that he [[AesopAmnesia forgot much of his character arc]] in favor of being played as a straight up goofball, and his comedic partner was Creator/NataliePortman's Jane Foster in an EndearinglyDorky performance rather than the more VitriolicBestBuds dynamic he had with The Hulk, so the film's 80's approach didn't work nearly as well this time around. It especially didn't help that ''Infinity War'' had continued Thor's tragic characterization, only for ''Endgame'' to have played much of it for laughs at the expense of Thor's [[YouAreFat gaining weight]] in the wake of all he had lost, which only made him being goofier harder to watch. Even more ironically, ''The Dark World'' would be VindicatedByHistory precisely because, for all the criticism about its dull antagonist and its uninteresting and confusing plot, it at least took Thor more seriously and played into his development and story arc, while ''Ragnarok'' lost some ground for planting the seeds for Thor's eventual turn into a goofball and having its more dramatic moments turn out [[AllForNothing tragically pointless]]. Further exacerbating the issue was the contrast of how Thor's supporting cast were treated in ''The Dark World'' and ''Ragnarok'': ''The Dark World'' does put Hogun the Grim [[PutOnABus on a bus]], but it also makes a concerted effort to give the rest of the Warriors Three, plus Sif, something to do, and to let them show off their charms and personalities a little more than the first film did. ''Ragnarok'', on the other, just kills all three of the Warriors Three off and jokes about how much they suck while doing it while [[ChuckCunninghamSyndrome straight up not featuring Sif at all or even mentioning where she is]].

to:

** Speaking of Thor's reduction into comic relief, the first film to do that was actually ''Film/ThorRagnarok'', which played up a much more heavily comedic side than all of his previous appearances, and treated some CharacterDevelopment for laughs, like undercutting Bruce Banner's seemingly tragic permanent turn into the Hulk with a slapstick gag about him [[AmusingInjuries hitting the ground first]]. At the time, this was seen as a breath of fresh air because Thor had always been seen as too dull, especially in the controversial second film ''Film/ThorTheDarkWorld'', and ''Ragnarok'' allowed Creator/ChrisHemsworth to tap into his comedic talent. On top of that, this change worked to Thor's favor because it was an 80's GenreThrowback film that utilized The Hulk as the Creator/RobertDeNiro to Thor's Creator/CharlesGrodin (as per Creator/MarkRuffalo's comments about the two's ''Film/MidnightRun'' dynamic), giving a proper balance and still focusing on Thor's CharacterDevelopment as a more responsible and wiser man--especially compared to his brother. But come ''Love And Thunder'', this comedy was heavily overshadowing everything about Thor to the point that he [[AesopAmnesia forgot much of his character arc]] in favor of being played as a straight up goofball, and his comedic partner was Creator/NataliePortman's Jane Foster in an EndearinglyDorky performance rather than the more VitriolicBestBuds dynamic he had with The Hulk, so the film's 80's approach didn't work nearly as well this time around. It especially didn't help that ''Infinity War'' had continued Thor's tragic characterization, only for ''Endgame'' to have played much of it for laughs at the expense of Thor's [[YouAreFat gaining weight]] in the wake of all he had lost, which only made him being goofier harder to watch. Even more ironically, ''The Dark World'' would be VindicatedByHistory precisely because, for all the criticism about its dull antagonist and its uninteresting and confusing plot, it at least took Thor more seriously and played into his development and story arc, while ''Ragnarok'' lost some ground for planting the seeds for Thor's eventual turn into a goofball and having its more dramatic moments turn out [[AllForNothing tragically pointless]]. Further exacerbating the issue was the contrast of how Thor's supporting cast were treated in ''The Dark World'' and ''Ragnarok'': ''The Dark World'' does put Hogun the Grim [[PutOnABus on a bus]], but it also makes a concerted effort to give the rest of the Warriors Three, plus Sif, something to do, and to let them show off their charms and personalities a little more than the first film did. ''Ragnarok'', on the other, just kills all three of the Warriors Three off and jokes about how much they suck while doing it while [[ChuckCunninghamSyndrome straight up not featuring Sif at all or even mentioning where she is]].is]] (though she did finally return in ''Love and Thunder'', just [[AnArmAndALeg without a hand]]).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Relatedly, a lot of people have noted how the main characters' costumes changing for each installment was getting very annoying and unnecessary in Phases 4 and 5. While the updating of superhero costumes has been a staple for the previous three phases, people didn't have a problem with it back then, as the costume changes were usually done to show CostumeEvolution and were generally weaved into the story (i.e: Iron Man constantly building new suits or Captain America updating his costume to fit the modern era). Later installments, however, can't seem to stop changing costumes for their heroes even when there isn't anything wrong with them, causing complaints for people who liked a previous version of the suit.

to:

* Relatedly, a lot of people have noted how the main characters' costumes changing for each installment was getting very annoying and unnecessary in Phases 4 and 5. While the updating of superhero costumes has been a staple for the previous three phases, people didn't have a problem with it back then, as the costume changes were usually done to show CostumeEvolution and were generally weaved into the story (i.e: Iron Man constantly building new suits or Captain America updating his costume to fit the modern era). Later installments, however, can't seem to stop changing costumes for their heroes even when there isn't anything wrong with them, causing complaints resulting in quite a few accusations from fans that the costumes are changed simply for people who liked a previous version of the suit.sake of making new merchandise.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Speaking of Thor's reduction into comic relief, the first film to do that was actually ''Film/ThorRagnarok'', which played up a much more heavily comedic side than all of his previous appearances, and treated some CharacterDevelopment for laughs, like undercutting Bruce Banner's seemingly tragic permanent turn into the Hulk with a slapstick gag about him [[AmusingInjuries hitting the ground first]]. At the time, this was seen as a breath of fresh air because Thor had always been seen as too dull, especially in the controversial second film ''Film/ThorTheDarkWorld'', and ''Ragnarok'' allowed Creator/ChrisHemsworth to tap into his comedic talent. On top of that, this change worked to Thor's favor because it was an 80's GenreThrowback film that utilized The Hulk as the Creator/RobertDeNiro to Thor's Creator/CharlesGrodin (as per Creator/MarkRuffalo's comments about the two's ''Film/MidnightRun'' dynamic), giving a proper balance and still focusing on Thor's CharacterDevelopment as a more responsible and wiser man--especially compared to his brother. But come ''Love And Thunder'', this comedy was heavily overshadowing everything about Thor to the point that he [[AesopAmnesia forgot much of his character arc]] in favor of being played as a straight up goofball, and his comedic partner was Creator/NataliePortman's Jane Foster in an EndearinglyDorky performance rather than the more VitriolicBestBuds dynamic he had with The Hulk, so the film's 80's approach didn't work nearly as well this time around. It especially didn't help that ''Infinity War'' had continued Thor's tragic characterization, only for ''Endgame'' to have played much of it for laughs at the expense of Thor's [[YouAreFat gaining weight]] in the wake of all he had lost, which only made him being goofier harder to watch. Even more ironically, ''The Dark World'' would be VindicatedByHistory precisely because, for all the criticism about its dull antagonist and its uninteresting and confusing plot, it at least took Thor more seriously and played into his development and story arc, while ''Ragnarok'' lost some ground for planting the seeds for Thor's eventual turn into a goofball and having its more dramatic moments turn out [[AllForNothing tragically pointless]]. Contrast the films' treatment of Thor's supporting cast: ''The Dark World'' does put Hogun the Grim [[PutOnABus on a bus]], but it also makes a concerted effort to give the rest of Sif and the Warriors Three something to do, and to let them show off their charms and personalities a little more than the first film did. ''Ragnarok'' just kills them all off and jokes about how much they suck while doing it.

to:

** Speaking of Thor's reduction into comic relief, the first film to do that was actually ''Film/ThorRagnarok'', which played up a much more heavily comedic side than all of his previous appearances, and treated some CharacterDevelopment for laughs, like undercutting Bruce Banner's seemingly tragic permanent turn into the Hulk with a slapstick gag about him [[AmusingInjuries hitting the ground first]]. At the time, this was seen as a breath of fresh air because Thor had always been seen as too dull, especially in the controversial second film ''Film/ThorTheDarkWorld'', and ''Ragnarok'' allowed Creator/ChrisHemsworth to tap into his comedic talent. On top of that, this change worked to Thor's favor because it was an 80's GenreThrowback film that utilized The Hulk as the Creator/RobertDeNiro to Thor's Creator/CharlesGrodin (as per Creator/MarkRuffalo's comments about the two's ''Film/MidnightRun'' dynamic), giving a proper balance and still focusing on Thor's CharacterDevelopment as a more responsible and wiser man--especially compared to his brother. But come ''Love And Thunder'', this comedy was heavily overshadowing everything about Thor to the point that he [[AesopAmnesia forgot much of his character arc]] in favor of being played as a straight up goofball, and his comedic partner was Creator/NataliePortman's Jane Foster in an EndearinglyDorky performance rather than the more VitriolicBestBuds dynamic he had with The Hulk, so the film's 80's approach didn't work nearly as well this time around. It especially didn't help that ''Infinity War'' had continued Thor's tragic characterization, only for ''Endgame'' to have played much of it for laughs at the expense of Thor's [[YouAreFat gaining weight]] in the wake of all he had lost, which only made him being goofier harder to watch. Even more ironically, ''The Dark World'' would be VindicatedByHistory precisely because, for all the criticism about its dull antagonist and its uninteresting and confusing plot, it at least took Thor more seriously and played into his development and story arc, while ''Ragnarok'' lost some ground for planting the seeds for Thor's eventual turn into a goofball and having its more dramatic moments turn out [[AllForNothing tragically pointless]]. Contrast Further exacerbating the films' treatment issue was the contrast of how Thor's supporting cast: cast were treated in ''The Dark World'' and ''Ragnarok'': ''The Dark World'' does put Hogun the Grim [[PutOnABus on a bus]], but it also makes a concerted effort to give the rest of Sif and the Warriors Three Three, plus Sif, something to do, and to let them show off their charms and personalities a little more than the first film did. ''Ragnarok'' ''Ragnarok'', on the other, just kills them all three of the Warriors Three off and jokes about how much they suck while doing it.it while [[ChuckCunninghamSyndrome straight up not featuring Sif at all or even mentioning where she is]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Speaking of Thor's reduction into comic relief, the first film to do that was actually ''Film/ThorRagnarok'', which played up a much more heavily comedic side than all of his previous appearances, and treated some CharacterDevelopment for laughs, like undercutting Bruce Banner's seemingly tragic permanent turn into the Hulk with a slapstick gag about him [[AmusingInjuries hitting the ground first]]. At the time, this was seen as a breath of fresh air because Thor had always been seen as too dull, especially in the controversial second film ''Film/ThorTheDarkWorld'', and ''Ragnarok'' allowed Creator/ChrisHemsworth to tap into his comedic talent. On top of that, this change worked to Thor's favor because it was an 80's GenreThrowback film that utilized The Hulk as the Creator/RobertDeNiro to Thor's Creator/CharlesGrodin (as per Creator/MarkRuffalo's comments about the two's ''Film/MidnightRun'' dynamic), giving a proper balance and still focusing on Thor's CharacterDevelopment as a more responsible and wiser man--especially compared to his brother. But come ''Love And Thunder'', this comedy was heavily overshadowing everything about Thor to the point that he [[AesopAmnesia forgot much of his character arc]] in favor of being played as a straight up goofball, and his comedic partner was Creator/NataliePortman's Jane Foster in an EndearinglyDorky performance rather than the more VitriolicBestBuds dynamic he had with The Hulk, so the film's 80's approach didn't work nearly as well this time around. It especially didn't help that ''Infinity War'' had continued Thor's tragic characterization, only for ''Endgame'' to have played much of it for laughs at the expense of Thor's [[YouAreFat gaining weight]] in the wake of all he had lost, which only made him being goofier harder to watch. Even more ironically, ''The Dark World'' would be VindicatedByHistory precisely because, for all the criticism about its dull antagonist and its uninteresting and confusing plot, it at least took Thor more seriously and played into his development and story arc, while ''Ragnarok'' lost some ground for planting the seeds for Thor's eventual turn into a goofball and having its more dramatic moments turn out [[AllForNothing tragically pointless]].

to:

** Speaking of Thor's reduction into comic relief, the first film to do that was actually ''Film/ThorRagnarok'', which played up a much more heavily comedic side than all of his previous appearances, and treated some CharacterDevelopment for laughs, like undercutting Bruce Banner's seemingly tragic permanent turn into the Hulk with a slapstick gag about him [[AmusingInjuries hitting the ground first]]. At the time, this was seen as a breath of fresh air because Thor had always been seen as too dull, especially in the controversial second film ''Film/ThorTheDarkWorld'', and ''Ragnarok'' allowed Creator/ChrisHemsworth to tap into his comedic talent. On top of that, this change worked to Thor's favor because it was an 80's GenreThrowback film that utilized The Hulk as the Creator/RobertDeNiro to Thor's Creator/CharlesGrodin (as per Creator/MarkRuffalo's comments about the two's ''Film/MidnightRun'' dynamic), giving a proper balance and still focusing on Thor's CharacterDevelopment as a more responsible and wiser man--especially compared to his brother. But come ''Love And Thunder'', this comedy was heavily overshadowing everything about Thor to the point that he [[AesopAmnesia forgot much of his character arc]] in favor of being played as a straight up goofball, and his comedic partner was Creator/NataliePortman's Jane Foster in an EndearinglyDorky performance rather than the more VitriolicBestBuds dynamic he had with The Hulk, so the film's 80's approach didn't work nearly as well this time around. It especially didn't help that ''Infinity War'' had continued Thor's tragic characterization, only for ''Endgame'' to have played much of it for laughs at the expense of Thor's [[YouAreFat gaining weight]] in the wake of all he had lost, which only made him being goofier harder to watch. Even more ironically, ''The Dark World'' would be VindicatedByHistory precisely because, for all the criticism about its dull antagonist and its uninteresting and confusing plot, it at least took Thor more seriously and played into his development and story arc, while ''Ragnarok'' lost some ground for planting the seeds for Thor's eventual turn into a goofball and having its more dramatic moments turn out [[AllForNothing tragically pointless]]. Contrast the films' treatment of Thor's supporting cast: ''The Dark World'' does put Hogun the Grim [[PutOnABus on a bus]], but it also makes a concerted effort to give the rest of Sif and the Warriors Three something to do, and to let them show off their charms and personalities a little more than the first film did. ''Ragnarok'' just kills them all off and jokes about how much they suck while doing it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Spelling/grammar fix(es)


* ''Series/WandaVision'' came under heavy flak for revealing that [[spoiler:Creator/EvanPeter's Quicksilver]], like ''Film/IronMan3'''s Mandarin before him, [[spoiler:was a fake, being a man named "[[UnfortunateNames Ralph Bohner]]" whom Agatha Harkness brainwashed and empowered to drive Wanda over the edge and reveal her true power.]] The Mandarin twist, however, was somewhat more forgivable due to it working surprisingly well as a commentary on the original comic depiction's YellowPeril tropes, Creator/BenKingsley giving a memorable performance in the role, the Mandarin having never before been portrayed in live action at all beforehand (let alone by Kingsley) and thus not had any particularly strong expectations from prior portrayals to live up to, and [[spoiler:the fact that the whole business was eventually further retconned in ''Film/AllHailTheKing'' in favor of there being a TruerToTheText Mandarin still out and about (who in turn would finally see the light of day in ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'')]]. The twist with [[spoiler:Evan Peters' Quicksilver]], on the other hand, was much harder to forgive since [[spoiler:Peters was reprising his role from the ''Film/XMenFilmSeries'' in lieu of Creator/AaronTaylorJohnson (whose own take on Quicksilver in the MCU had been dead since ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'' and was therefore unavailable to soften the blow from the twist). And this same film series had not only been influential towards the start of the comic book film genre that eventually made the MCU possible, but also unceremoniously cut short by Disney's buyout of Fox and ended on a poor note with the terrible reception towards ''Film/DarkPhoenix'' and ''Film/TheNewMutants''.]] Combined with the fact that [[spoiler:Peter's Quicksilver was a preestablished character who was an EnsembleDarkHorse for his {{Signature Scene}}s in ''Film/XMenDaysOfFuturePast'' and ''Film/XMenApocalypse'']], fans took umbrage to the twist not only because it was a major fakeout, but also because it came across as extremely disrespectful towards [[spoiler:the ''X-Men'' films that Disney [[UngratefulBastard not only owed the MCU's ability to exist to]], but had [[KickThemWhileTheyAreDown also already been responsible for ending]]--especially since said twist lead to nothing but a dick joke]].

to:

* ''Series/WandaVision'' came under heavy flak for revealing that [[spoiler:Creator/EvanPeter's Quicksilver]], like ''Film/IronMan3'''s Mandarin before him, [[spoiler:was a fake, being a man named "[[UnfortunateNames Ralph Bohner]]" whom Agatha Harkness brainwashed and empowered to drive Wanda over the edge and reveal her true power.]] The Mandarin twist, however, was somewhat more forgivable due to it working surprisingly well as a commentary on the original comic depiction's YellowPeril tropes, Creator/BenKingsley giving a memorable performance in the role, the Mandarin having never before been portrayed in live action at all beforehand (let alone by Kingsley) and thus not had any particularly strong expectations from prior portrayals to live up to, and [[spoiler:the fact that the whole business was eventually further retconned in ''Film/AllHailTheKing'' in favor of there being a TruerToTheText Mandarin still out and about (who in turn would finally see the light of day in ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'')]]. The twist with [[spoiler:Evan Peters' Quicksilver]], on the other hand, was much harder to forgive since [[spoiler:Peters was reprising his role from the ''Film/XMenFilmSeries'' in lieu of Creator/AaronTaylorJohnson (whose own take on Quicksilver in the MCU had been dead since ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'' and was therefore unavailable to soften the blow from the twist). And this same film series had not only been influential towards the start of the comic book film genre that eventually made the MCU possible, but also unceremoniously cut short by Disney's buyout of Fox and ended on a poor note with the terrible reception towards of ''Film/DarkPhoenix'' and ''Film/TheNewMutants''.]] Combined with the fact that [[spoiler:Peter's Quicksilver was a preestablished character who was an EnsembleDarkHorse for his {{Signature Scene}}s in ''Film/XMenDaysOfFuturePast'' and ''Film/XMenApocalypse'']], fans took umbrage to the twist not only because it was a major fakeout, but also because it came across as extremely disrespectful towards [[spoiler:the ''X-Men'' films that Disney [[UngratefulBastard not only owed the MCU's ability to exist to]], but had [[KickThemWhileTheyAreDown also already been responsible for ending]]--especially since said twist lead to nothing but a dick joke]].



* ''Series/{{Secret Invasion|2023}}'' was criticized for deviating too much from [[ComicBook/SecretInvasion2008 its source material]], specifically with its reduced cast size and scale. However, ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' previously went with a similar downsized adaptational approach that didn't attract as much criticism. Like ''Secret Invasion'', ''Civil War'' deviated from [[ComicBook/CivilWar2006 the original comic]] to focus on a handful of heroes instead of a massive CrisisCrossover, most notably by omitting the Defenders and downplaying Spider-Man's role, not to mention naturally omitting characters related to the X-Men and Fantastic Four ([[ExiledFromContinuity whom Marvel Studios wasn't allowed to include at the time]] due to [[ScrewedByTheLawyers those characters having their film rights held by Fox]]). However, while some fans expressed disappointment over not seeing much beloved fan-favorite characters from the original comic storyline, ''Civil War'' improved on its source material by making its leads more sympathetic, as Steve's points about potentially corrupt world governments hampering the Avengers and Tony's points about keeping the Avengers in check to avoid collateral damage were [[BothSidesHaveAPoint both grounded in good reasons]] despite Tony's [[ItsAllMyFault guilt complex]] and Steve's [[ChronicHeroSyndrome savior complex]] keeping them from stopping the conflict. As such, the smaller scale actually benefitted by making the story more personal and the characters more sympathetic. On the other hand, fans weren't so forgiving with ''Secret Invasion'' because of how the show places so much focus on a handful of characters who weren't that interesting or sympathetic. The Skrulls, though justifiably angry that Fury broke his promise to find them a new home, went from living amongst humans with seemingly minimal issue to casually attempting genocide against humans. Likewise, while Fury certainly wasn't wrong about how [[FantasticRacism humanity would never have any guarantee of accepting the Skrulls]], he is similarly at his least sympathetic in ''Secret Invastion'' due to having used them as his personal spies, failed to fulfill the promise he and Carol had made to find them a new home in exchange, and [[spoiler:stolen the entire superhero community's DNA behind their backs for research purposes]]. Furthermore, the smaller scale hurts the stakes of the show as it couldn't adequately convey the global scale of the crisis due to focusing on a small handful of characters and filming in sparsely populated areas. So by omitting the original story's scope while failing to tell a personal story that improved on the source material, ''Secret Invasion'' made for a less engaging experience.

to:

* ''Series/{{Secret Invasion|2023}}'' was criticized for deviating too much from [[ComicBook/SecretInvasion2008 its source material]], specifically with its reduced cast size and scale. However, ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' previously went with a similar downsized adaptational approach that didn't attract as much criticism. Like ''Secret Invasion'', ''Civil War'' deviated from [[ComicBook/CivilWar2006 the original comic]] to focus on a handful of heroes instead of a massive CrisisCrossover, most notably by omitting the Defenders and downplaying Spider-Man's role, not to mention naturally omitting characters related to the X-Men and Fantastic Four ([[ExiledFromContinuity whom Marvel Studios wasn't allowed to include at the time]] due to [[ScrewedByTheLawyers those characters having their film rights held by Fox]]). However, while some fans expressed disappointment over not seeing much beloved fan-favorite characters from the original comic storyline, ''Civil War'' improved on its source material by making its leads more sympathetic, as Steve's points about potentially corrupt world governments hampering the Avengers and Tony's points about keeping the Avengers in check to avoid collateral damage were [[BothSidesHaveAPoint both grounded in good reasons]] despite Tony's [[ItsAllMyFault guilt complex]] and Steve's [[ChronicHeroSyndrome savior complex]] keeping them from stopping the conflict. As such, the smaller scale actually benefitted by making the story more personal and the characters more sympathetic. On the other hand, fans weren't so forgiving with ''Secret Invasion'' because of how the show places so much focus on a handful of characters who weren't that interesting or sympathetic. The Skrulls, though justifiably angry that Fury broke his promise to find them a new home, went from living amongst humans with seemingly minimal issue to casually attempting genocide against humans. Likewise, while Fury certainly wasn't wrong about how [[FantasticRacism humanity would never have any guarantee of accepting the Skrulls]], he is similarly at his least sympathetic in ''Secret Invastion'' Invasion'' due to having used them as his personal spies, failed to fulfill the promise he and Carol had made to find them a new home in exchange, and [[spoiler:stolen the entire superhero community's DNA behind their backs for research purposes]]. Furthermore, the smaller scale hurts the stakes of the show as it couldn't adequately convey the global scale of the crisis due to focusing on a small handful of characters and filming in sparsely populated areas. So by omitting the original story's scope while failing to tell a personal story that improved on the source material, ''Secret Invasion'' made for a less engaging experience.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Spelling/grammar fix(es)


** This flaw would become far less forgiving by Phase 4, as many audiences wound up being turned off by the overabundance of comedy, chiefly in ''Film/ThorLoveAndThunder'' and ''Series/SheHulkAttorneyAtLaw'' (and ''Film/DoctorStrangeInTheMultiverseOfMadness'' to a lesser extent), as it took away from far too many serious moments or otherwise added comedy where none was needed. It especially didn't help the reputation of ''Film/{{Eternals}}'', where it was criticized for trying to balance out Chloe Zhao's grand ambitions of a serious sweeping epic with the typical self-aware comedy used in the MCU, and became a critical and commercial disappointment. The only Phase 4 projects that ''didn't'' get hit with this criticism were ''Film/SpiderManNoWayHome'' (largely in part due to the humor better fitting the character, and it being a love letter to Spidey's entire [[Film/SpiderManTrilogy cinematic]] [[Film/TheAmazingSpiderManSeries history]]), ''Film/WerewolfByNight2022'' (as it largely eschewed its humor to be a fun throwback to the Universal Monsters franchise, complete with a heavy dose of horror), ''Film/BlackPantherWakandaForever'' (which had to take a more somber tone due to the passing of Creator/ChadwickBoseman, instead focusing on the character's grief to T'Challa's death), and ''Film/TheGuardiansOfTheGalaxyHolidaySpecial'' (whose humor is considered more befitting of the Guardians). Even when Phase 5 started with ''Film/AntManAndTheWaspQuantumania'', that same level of humor and MoodWhiplash that audiences felt was more befitting of Ant-Man started to grate on them. To those watching the films and seeing numerous jokes used to a great extent, it felt like the MCU was not taking its characters seriously, and made the franchise feel far more like the popcorn flicks that Creator/MartinScorsese had infamously criticized them as rather than serious pieces showing the impact and relevance these characters had on popular culture.

to:

** This flaw would become far less forgiving forgivable by Phase 4, as many audiences wound up being turned off by the overabundance of comedy, chiefly in ''Film/ThorLoveAndThunder'' and ''Series/SheHulkAttorneyAtLaw'' (and ''Film/DoctorStrangeInTheMultiverseOfMadness'' to a lesser extent), as it took away from far too many serious moments or otherwise added comedy where none was needed. It especially didn't help the reputation of ''Film/{{Eternals}}'', where it was criticized for trying to balance out Chloe Zhao's grand ambitions of a serious sweeping epic with the typical self-aware comedy used in the MCU, and became a critical and commercial disappointment. The only Phase 4 projects that ''didn't'' get hit with this criticism were ''Film/SpiderManNoWayHome'' (largely in part due to the humor better fitting the character, and it being a love letter to Spidey's entire [[Film/SpiderManTrilogy cinematic]] [[Film/TheAmazingSpiderManSeries history]]), ''Film/WerewolfByNight2022'' (as it largely eschewed its humor to be a fun throwback to the Universal Monsters franchise, complete with a heavy dose of horror), ''Film/BlackPantherWakandaForever'' (which had to take a more somber tone due to the passing of Creator/ChadwickBoseman, instead focusing on the character's grief to T'Challa's death), and ''Film/TheGuardiansOfTheGalaxyHolidaySpecial'' (whose humor is considered more befitting of the Guardians). Even when Phase 5 started with ''Film/AntManAndTheWaspQuantumania'', that same level of humor and MoodWhiplash that audiences felt was more befitting of Ant-Man started to grate on them. To those watching the films and seeing numerous jokes used to a great extent, it felt like the MCU was not taking its characters seriously, and made the franchise feel far more like the popcorn flicks that Creator/MartinScorsese had infamously criticized them as rather than serious pieces showing the impact and relevance these characters had on popular culture.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* On a related note, the MCU's increasing reliance on sympathetic villains from Phase 3 and onward has been criticized as stale and badly written since said villains make legit points yet they still act gratuitously evil because they're villains. However, this trend first started with Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains. While Killmonger was sympathetic because of how he suffered from systemic racism, and rightfully criticized Wakanda for not helping impoverished black people, he still had gratuitous KickTheDog moments (i.e. shooting his girlfriend [[ShootTheHostage when Ulysses Klaue took her hostage]]) and strong hatred of white people that were added to remind audiences that he was still a villain. However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making a sympathetic villain feel fresh for the franchise. Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale in a way that allowed his FreudianExcuse, while [[FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse not remotely justification for his evil actions]], to be understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa put genuine effort into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bringing about real change. In contrast, the later sympathetic villains were less well-received either because of their unlikable personalities ([[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]]), shallow motivations ([[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]])), or forced evil actions ([[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]]). Even worse is that after defeating the villains, the heroes seldomly acknowledge their arguments or try to address them in favor of maintaining the status quo. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing and compelling anti-villain that holds up, his later imitators have neither his novelty nor nuanced characterization.

to:

* On a related note, the MCU's increasing reliance on sympathetic villains from Phase 3 and onward has been criticized as stale and badly written since said villains make legit points yet they still act gratuitously evil because they're villains. However, this trend first started with Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains. While Killmonger was sympathetic because of how he suffered from systemic racism, and rightfully criticized Wakanda for not helping impoverished black people, he still had gratuitous KickTheDog moments (i.e. shooting his girlfriend [[ShootTheHostage when Ulysses Klaue took her hostage]]) and strong hatred of white people that were added to remind audiences that he was still a villain. However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making a sympathetic villain feel fresh for the franchise. Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale in a way that allowed his FreudianExcuse, while [[FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse not remotely justification for his evil actions]], to be understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa put genuine effort into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bringing about real change. In contrast, the later sympathetic villains were less well-received either because of either their unlikable personalities ([[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]]), shallow motivations ([[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]])), or forced evil actions ([[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]]). Even worse is that after defeating the villains, the heroes seldomly acknowledge their arguments or try to address them in favor of maintaining the status quo. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing and compelling anti-villain that holds up, his later imitators have neither his novelty nor nuanced characterization.



* ''Series/WandaVision'' came under heavy flak for revealing that [[spoiler:Creator/EvanPeter's Quicksilver]], like ''Film/IronMan3'''s Mandarin before him, [[spoiler:was a fake, being a man named "[[UnfortunateNames Ralph Bohner]]" whom Agatha Harkness brainwashed and empowered to drive Wanda over the edge and reveal her true power.]] The Mandarin twist, however, was somewhat more forgivable due to it working surprisingly well as a commentary on the original comic depiction's YellowPeril tropes, Creator/BenKingsley giving a memorable performance in the role, the Mandarin having never before been portrayed in live action at all beforehand (let alone by Kingsley) and thus not had any particularly strong expectations from prior portrayals to live up to, and [[spoiler:the fact that the whole business was eventually further retconned in ''Film/AllHailTheKing'' in favor of there being a more TruerToTheText Mandarin still out and about (who in turn would ultimately finally see the light of day in ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'')]]. The twist with [[spoiler:Evan Peters' Quicksilver]], on the other hand, was much harder to forgive since [[spoiler:Peters was reprising his role from the ''Film/XMenFilmSeries'' in lieu of Creator/AaronTaylorJohnson (whose own take on Quicksilver in the MCU had been dead since ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'' and was therefore unavailable to soften the blow from the twist). And this same film series had not only been influential towards the start of the comic book film genre that eventually made the MCU possible, but also unceremoniously cut short by Disney's buyout of Fox and ended on a poor note with the terrible reception towards ''Film/DarkPhoenix'' and ''Film/TheNewMutants''.]] Combined with the fact that [[spoiler:Peter's Quicksilver was a preestablished character who was an EnsembleDarkHorse for his {{Signature Scene}}s in ''Film/XMenDaysOfFuturePast'' and ''Film/XMenApocalypse'']], fans took umbrage to the twist not only because it was a major fakeout, but also because it came across as extremely disrespectful towards [[spoiler:the ''X-Men'' films that Disney [[UngratefulBastard not only owed the MCU's ability to exist to]], but had [[KickThemWhileTheyAreDown also already been responsible for ending]]--especially since said twist lead to nothing but a dick joke]].

to:

* ''Series/WandaVision'' came under heavy flak for revealing that [[spoiler:Creator/EvanPeter's Quicksilver]], like ''Film/IronMan3'''s Mandarin before him, [[spoiler:was a fake, being a man named "[[UnfortunateNames Ralph Bohner]]" whom Agatha Harkness brainwashed and empowered to drive Wanda over the edge and reveal her true power.]] The Mandarin twist, however, was somewhat more forgivable due to it working surprisingly well as a commentary on the original comic depiction's YellowPeril tropes, Creator/BenKingsley giving a memorable performance in the role, the Mandarin having never before been portrayed in live action at all beforehand (let alone by Kingsley) and thus not had any particularly strong expectations from prior portrayals to live up to, and [[spoiler:the fact that the whole business was eventually further retconned in ''Film/AllHailTheKing'' in favor of there being a more TruerToTheText Mandarin still out and about (who in turn would ultimately finally see the light of day in ''Film/ShangChiAndTheLegendOfTheTenRings'')]]. The twist with [[spoiler:Evan Peters' Quicksilver]], on the other hand, was much harder to forgive since [[spoiler:Peters was reprising his role from the ''Film/XMenFilmSeries'' in lieu of Creator/AaronTaylorJohnson (whose own take on Quicksilver in the MCU had been dead since ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'' and was therefore unavailable to soften the blow from the twist). And this same film series had not only been influential towards the start of the comic book film genre that eventually made the MCU possible, but also unceremoniously cut short by Disney's buyout of Fox and ended on a poor note with the terrible reception towards ''Film/DarkPhoenix'' and ''Film/TheNewMutants''.]] Combined with the fact that [[spoiler:Peter's Quicksilver was a preestablished character who was an EnsembleDarkHorse for his {{Signature Scene}}s in ''Film/XMenDaysOfFuturePast'' and ''Film/XMenApocalypse'']], fans took umbrage to the twist not only because it was a major fakeout, but also because it came across as extremely disrespectful towards [[spoiler:the ''X-Men'' films that Disney [[UngratefulBastard not only owed the MCU's ability to exist to]], but had [[KickThemWhileTheyAreDown also already been responsible for ending]]--especially since said twist lead to nothing but a dick joke]].



* ''Series/{{Secret Invasion|2023}}'' was criticized for deviating too much from [[ComicBook/SecretInvasion2008 its source material]], specifically with its reduced cast size and scale. However, ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' previously went with a similar downsized adaptational approach that didn't attract as much criticism. Like ''Secret Invasion'', ''Civil War'' deviated from [[ComicBook/CivilWar2006 the original comic]] to focus on a handful of heroes instead of a massive CrisisCrossover, most notably by omitting the Defenders and downplaying Spider-Man's role, not to mention naturally omitting characters related to the X-Men and Fantastic Four ([[ExiledFromContinuity whom Marvel Studios wasn't allowed to include at the time]] due to [[ScrewedByTheLawyers those characters having their film rights held by Fox]]). However, while some fans expressed disappointment over not seeing much beloved fan-favorite characters from the original comic storyline, ''Civil War'' improved on its source material by making its leads more sympathetic, as Steve's points about potentially corrupt world governments hampering the Avengers and Tony's points about keeping the Avengers in check to avoid collateral damage were [[BothSidesHaveAPoint both grounded in good reasons]] despite Tony's [[ItsAllMyFault guilt complex]] and Steve's [[ChronicHeroSyndrome savior complex]] keeping them from stopping the conflict. As such, the smaller scale actually benefitted by making the story more personal and the characters more sympathetic. On the other hand, fans weren't so forgiving with ''Secret Invasion'' because of how the show places so much focus on a handful of characters who weren't that interesting or sympathetic. The Skrulls, though justifiably angry that Fury broke his promise to find them a new home, went from living amongst humans with seemingly minimal issue to casually attempting genocide against humans. Likewise, while Fury certainly wasn't wrong about how [[FantasticRacism humanity would never have any guarantee of accepting the Skrulls]], he is similarly at his least sympathetic in ''Secret Invastion'' due to having used them as his personal spies, failed to fulfill the promise he and Carol had made to find them a new home in exchange, and [[spoiler:stolen the entire superhero community's DNA for research purposes behind their backs]]. Furthermore, the smaller scale hurts the stakes of the show as by focusing on a small handful of characters and filming in sparsely populated areas, the show couldn't adequately convey the global scale of the crisis. So by omitting the original story's scope while failing to tell a personal story that improved on the source material, ''Secret Invasion'' made for a less engaging experience.

to:

* ''Series/{{Secret Invasion|2023}}'' was criticized for deviating too much from [[ComicBook/SecretInvasion2008 its source material]], specifically with its reduced cast size and scale. However, ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' previously went with a similar downsized adaptational approach that didn't attract as much criticism. Like ''Secret Invasion'', ''Civil War'' deviated from [[ComicBook/CivilWar2006 the original comic]] to focus on a handful of heroes instead of a massive CrisisCrossover, most notably by omitting the Defenders and downplaying Spider-Man's role, not to mention naturally omitting characters related to the X-Men and Fantastic Four ([[ExiledFromContinuity whom Marvel Studios wasn't allowed to include at the time]] due to [[ScrewedByTheLawyers those characters having their film rights held by Fox]]). However, while some fans expressed disappointment over not seeing much beloved fan-favorite characters from the original comic storyline, ''Civil War'' improved on its source material by making its leads more sympathetic, as Steve's points about potentially corrupt world governments hampering the Avengers and Tony's points about keeping the Avengers in check to avoid collateral damage were [[BothSidesHaveAPoint both grounded in good reasons]] despite Tony's [[ItsAllMyFault guilt complex]] and Steve's [[ChronicHeroSyndrome savior complex]] keeping them from stopping the conflict. As such, the smaller scale actually benefitted by making the story more personal and the characters more sympathetic. On the other hand, fans weren't so forgiving with ''Secret Invasion'' because of how the show places so much focus on a handful of characters who weren't that interesting or sympathetic. The Skrulls, though justifiably angry that Fury broke his promise to find them a new home, went from living amongst humans with seemingly minimal issue to casually attempting genocide against humans. Likewise, while Fury certainly wasn't wrong about how [[FantasticRacism humanity would never have any guarantee of accepting the Skrulls]], he is similarly at his least sympathetic in ''Secret Invastion'' due to having used them as his personal spies, failed to fulfill the promise he and Carol had made to find them a new home in exchange, and [[spoiler:stolen the entire superhero community's DNA behind their backs for research purposes behind their backs]]. purposes]]. Furthermore, the smaller scale hurts the stakes of the show as by it couldn't adequately convey the global scale of the crisis due to focusing on a small handful of characters and filming in sparsely populated areas, the show couldn't adequately convey the global scale of the crisis.areas. So by omitting the original story's scope while failing to tell a personal story that improved on the source material, ''Secret Invasion'' made for a less engaging experience.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Speaking of Thor's reduction into comic relief, the first film to do that was actually ''Film/ThorRagnarok'', which played up a much more heavily comedic side than all of his previous appearances, and treated some CharacterDevelopment for laughs, like undercutting Bruce Banner's seemingly tragic permanent turn into the Hulk with a slapstick gag about him [[AmusingInjuries hitting the ground first]]. At the time, this was seen as a breath of fresh air because Thor had always been seen as too dull, especially in the controversial second film ''Film/ThorTheDarkWorld'', and ''Ragnarok'' allowed Creator/ChrisHemsworth to tap into his comedic talent. On top of that, this change worked to Thor's favor because it was an 80's GenreThrowback film that utilized The Hulk as the Creator/RobertDeNiro to Thor's Creator/CharlesGrodin (as per Creator/MarkRuffalo's comments about the two's ''Film/MidnightRun'' dynamic), giving a proper balance and still focusing on Thor's CharacterDevelopment as a more responsible and wiser man--especially compared to his brother. But come ''Love And Thunder'', this comedy was heavily overshadowing everything about Thor to the point that he [[AesopAmnesia forgot much of his character arc]] in favor of being played as a straight up goofball, and his comedic partner was Creator/NataliePortman's Jane Foster in an EndearinglyDorky performance rather than the more VitriolicBestBuds dynamic he had with The Hulk, so the film's 80's approach didn't work nearly as well this time around. It especially didn't help that ''Infinity War'' had continued Thor's tragic characterization, only for ''Endgame'' to have played much of it for laughs at the expense of Thor's [[YouAreFat gaining weight]] in the wake of all he had lost, which only made him being goofier harder to watch. Even more ironically, ''The Dark World'' would be VindicatedByHistory precisely because it took Thor more seriously and played into his development and story arc, while ''Ragnarok'' lost some ground for planting the seeds for Thor's eventual turn into a goofball and having its more dramatic moments turn out [[AllForNothing tragically pointless]].

to:

** Speaking of Thor's reduction into comic relief, the first film to do that was actually ''Film/ThorRagnarok'', which played up a much more heavily comedic side than all of his previous appearances, and treated some CharacterDevelopment for laughs, like undercutting Bruce Banner's seemingly tragic permanent turn into the Hulk with a slapstick gag about him [[AmusingInjuries hitting the ground first]]. At the time, this was seen as a breath of fresh air because Thor had always been seen as too dull, especially in the controversial second film ''Film/ThorTheDarkWorld'', and ''Ragnarok'' allowed Creator/ChrisHemsworth to tap into his comedic talent. On top of that, this change worked to Thor's favor because it was an 80's GenreThrowback film that utilized The Hulk as the Creator/RobertDeNiro to Thor's Creator/CharlesGrodin (as per Creator/MarkRuffalo's comments about the two's ''Film/MidnightRun'' dynamic), giving a proper balance and still focusing on Thor's CharacterDevelopment as a more responsible and wiser man--especially compared to his brother. But come ''Love And Thunder'', this comedy was heavily overshadowing everything about Thor to the point that he [[AesopAmnesia forgot much of his character arc]] in favor of being played as a straight up goofball, and his comedic partner was Creator/NataliePortman's Jane Foster in an EndearinglyDorky performance rather than the more VitriolicBestBuds dynamic he had with The Hulk, so the film's 80's approach didn't work nearly as well this time around. It especially didn't help that ''Infinity War'' had continued Thor's tragic characterization, only for ''Endgame'' to have played much of it for laughs at the expense of Thor's [[YouAreFat gaining weight]] in the wake of all he had lost, which only made him being goofier harder to watch. Even more ironically, ''The Dark World'' would be VindicatedByHistory precisely because because, for all the criticism about its dull antagonist and its uninteresting and confusing plot, it at least took Thor more seriously and played into his development and story arc, while ''Ragnarok'' lost some ground for planting the seeds for Thor's eventual turn into a goofball and having its more dramatic moments turn out [[AllForNothing tragically pointless]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
oh daggome it


** Even at the time of ''Film/{{The Avengers|2012}''[='=]s release, critics suggested that {{Creator/Joss Whedon}}'s signature snark was hitting near critical mass in places, again, especially not but entirely through the character-appropriate Tony Stark, and not exclusively when it would be entirely appropriate to the situation at hand. But ''The Avengers'' was a huge cinematic event, the culmination of all the little hints at a future crossover across multiple preceding Marvel films; it was a big crowd-pleasing spectacle and the story was, while not a full-on ExcusePlot, fairly light on dramatic stakes overall. The major exception, the death of beloved minor background character Phil Coulson, was treated with appropriate gravity by the characters and the writing. ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'', by contrast, was much less fresh, the snark even more overwhelming, and attempts to make the story more dramatic and heavy only served to alienate audiences from the humor, especially when, for example, Quicksilver spends his last seconds of mortally-wounded life snarking at Hawkeye before what's supposed to be his heroic death.

to:

** Even at the time of ''Film/{{The Avengers|2012}''[='=]s Avengers|2012}}''[='=]s release, critics suggested that {{Creator/Joss Whedon}}'s signature snark was hitting near critical mass in places, again, especially not but entirely through the character-appropriate Tony Stark, and not exclusively when it would be entirely appropriate to the situation at hand. But ''The Avengers'' was a huge cinematic event, the culmination of all the little hints at a future crossover across multiple preceding Marvel films; it was a big crowd-pleasing spectacle and the story was, while not a full-on ExcusePlot, fairly light on dramatic stakes overall. The major exception, the death of beloved minor background character Phil Coulson, was treated with appropriate gravity by the characters and the writing. ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'', by contrast, was much less fresh, the snark even more overwhelming, and attempts to make the story more dramatic and heavy only served to alienate audiences from the humor, especially when, for example, Quicksilver spends his last seconds of mortally-wounded life snarking at Hawkeye before what's supposed to be his heroic death.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Even at the time of ''Film/{{The Avengers|2012}}'s release, critics suggested that {{Creator/Joss Whedon}}'s signature snark was hitting near critical mass in places, again, especially not but entirely through the character-appropriate Tony Stark, and not exclusively when it would be entirely appropriate to the situation at hand. But ''The Avengers'' was a huge cinematic event, the culmination of all the little hints at a future crossover across multiple preceding Marvel films; it was a big crowd-pleasing spectacle and the story was, while not a full-on ExcusePlot, fairly light on dramatic stakes overall. The major exception, the death of beloved minor background character Phil Coulson, was treated with appropriate gravity by the characters and the writing. ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'', by contrast, was much less fresh, the snark even more overwhelming, and attempts to make the story more dramatic and heavy only served to alienate audiences from the humor, especially when, for example, Quicksilver spends his last seconds of mortally-wounded life snarking at Hawkeye before what's supposed to be his heroic death.

to:

** Even at the time of ''Film/{{The Avengers|2012}}'s Avengers|2012}''[='=]s release, critics suggested that {{Creator/Joss Whedon}}'s signature snark was hitting near critical mass in places, again, especially not but entirely through the character-appropriate Tony Stark, and not exclusively when it would be entirely appropriate to the situation at hand. But ''The Avengers'' was a huge cinematic event, the culmination of all the little hints at a future crossover across multiple preceding Marvel films; it was a big crowd-pleasing spectacle and the story was, while not a full-on ExcusePlot, fairly light on dramatic stakes overall. The major exception, the death of beloved minor background character Phil Coulson, was treated with appropriate gravity by the characters and the writing. ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'', by contrast, was much less fresh, the snark even more overwhelming, and attempts to make the story more dramatic and heavy only served to alienate audiences from the humor, especially when, for example, Quicksilver spends his last seconds of mortally-wounded life snarking at Hawkeye before what's supposed to be his heroic death.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Even at the time of ''{{Film/The Avengers (2012)}}'s release, critics suggested that {{Creator/Joss Whedon}}'s signature snark was hitting near critical mass in places, again, especially not but entirely through the character-appropriate Tony Stark, and not exclusively when it would be entirely appropriate. But ''The Avengers'' was a huge cinematic event, the culmination of all the little hints at a future crossover across multiple preceding Marvel films; it was a big crowd-pleasing spectacle and the story was, while not a full-on ExcusePlot, fairly light on dramatic stakes overall. The major exception, the death of beloved minor background character Phil Coulson, was treated with appropriate gravity by the characters and the writing. ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'', by contrast, was much less fresh, the snark even more overwhelming, and attempts to make the story more dramatic and heavy only served to alienate audiences from the humor, especially when, for example, Quicksilver spends his last seconds of mortally-wounded life snarking at Hawkeye before what's supposed to be his heroic death.

to:

** Even at the time of ''{{Film/The Avengers (2012)}}'s ''Film/{{The Avengers|2012}}'s release, critics suggested that {{Creator/Joss Whedon}}'s signature snark was hitting near critical mass in places, again, especially not but entirely through the character-appropriate Tony Stark, and not exclusively when it would be entirely appropriate.appropriate to the situation at hand. But ''The Avengers'' was a huge cinematic event, the culmination of all the little hints at a future crossover across multiple preceding Marvel films; it was a big crowd-pleasing spectacle and the story was, while not a full-on ExcusePlot, fairly light on dramatic stakes overall. The major exception, the death of beloved minor background character Phil Coulson, was treated with appropriate gravity by the characters and the writing. ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'', by contrast, was much less fresh, the snark even more overwhelming, and attempts to make the story more dramatic and heavy only served to alienate audiences from the humor, especially when, for example, Quicksilver spends his last seconds of mortally-wounded life snarking at Hawkeye before what's supposed to be his heroic death.

Added: 497

Changed: 1587

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
...I didn't come here to kick Ragnarok around. But I'll throw a bit in while I'm here.


** Speaking of Thor's reduction into comic relief, the first film to do that was actually ''Film/ThorRagnarok'', which played up a much more heavily comedic side than all of his previous appearances. At the time, this was seen as a breath of fresh air because Thor had always been seen as too dull, especially in the controversial second film ''Film/ThorTheDarkWorld'', and ''Ragnarok'' allowed Creator/ChrisHemsworth to tap into his comedic talent. On top of that, this change worked to Thor's favor because it was an 80's GenreThrowback film that utilized The Hulk as the Creator/RobertDeNiro to Thor's Creator/CharlesGrodin (as per Creator/MarkRuffalo's comments about the two's ''Film/MidnightRun'' dynamic), giving a proper balance and still focusing on Thor's CharacterDevelopment as a more responsible and wiser man--especially compared to his brother. But come ''Love And Thunder'', this comedy was heavily overshadowing everything about Thor to the point that he [[AesopAmnesia forgot much of his character arc]] in favor of being played as a straight up goofball, and his comedic partner was Creator/NataliePortman's Jane Foster in an EndearinglyDorky performance rather than the more VitriolicBestBuds dynamic he had with The Hulk, so the film's 80's approach didn't work nearly as well this time around. It especially didn't help that ''Infinity War'' had continued Thor's tragic characterization, only for ''Endgame'' to have played much of it for laughs at the expense of Thor's [[YouAreFat gaining weight]] in the wake of all he had lost, which only made him being goofier harder to watch. Even more ironically, ''The Dark World'' would be VindicatedByHistory precisely because it took Thor more seriously and played into his development and story arc, while ''Ragnarok'' lost some ground for planting the seeds for Thor's eventual turn into a goofball.

to:

** Speaking of Thor's reduction into comic relief, the first film to do that was actually ''Film/ThorRagnarok'', which played up a much more heavily comedic side than all of his previous appearances.appearances, and treated some CharacterDevelopment for laughs, like undercutting Bruce Banner's seemingly tragic permanent turn into the Hulk with a slapstick gag about him [[AmusingInjuries hitting the ground first]]. At the time, this was seen as a breath of fresh air because Thor had always been seen as too dull, especially in the controversial second film ''Film/ThorTheDarkWorld'', and ''Ragnarok'' allowed Creator/ChrisHemsworth to tap into his comedic talent. On top of that, this change worked to Thor's favor because it was an 80's GenreThrowback film that utilized The Hulk as the Creator/RobertDeNiro to Thor's Creator/CharlesGrodin (as per Creator/MarkRuffalo's comments about the two's ''Film/MidnightRun'' dynamic), giving a proper balance and still focusing on Thor's CharacterDevelopment as a more responsible and wiser man--especially compared to his brother. But come ''Love And Thunder'', this comedy was heavily overshadowing everything about Thor to the point that he [[AesopAmnesia forgot much of his character arc]] in favor of being played as a straight up goofball, and his comedic partner was Creator/NataliePortman's Jane Foster in an EndearinglyDorky performance rather than the more VitriolicBestBuds dynamic he had with The Hulk, so the film's 80's approach didn't work nearly as well this time around. It especially didn't help that ''Infinity War'' had continued Thor's tragic characterization, only for ''Endgame'' to have played much of it for laughs at the expense of Thor's [[YouAreFat gaining weight]] in the wake of all he had lost, which only made him being goofier harder to watch. Even more ironically, ''The Dark World'' would be VindicatedByHistory precisely because it took Thor more seriously and played into his development and story arc, while ''Ragnarok'' lost some ground for planting the seeds for Thor's eventual turn into a goofball.goofball and having its more dramatic moments turn out [[AllForNothing tragically pointless]].



** This criticism came to a head in ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' during the signature airport fight scene. The Avengers are literally split down the middle, fighting one another with some of them being as close as family. However, not only do none of them show any angst, but everyone seems to be obsessed with trying to out-snark each other. One critic compared it to "A ''Star Wars'' movie where Luke, Leia, and Chewie all try to be Han Solo."

to:

** Even at the time of ''{{Film/The Avengers (2012)}}'s release, critics suggested that {{Creator/Joss Whedon}}'s signature snark was hitting near critical mass in places, again, especially not but entirely through the character-appropriate Tony Stark, and not exclusively when it would be entirely appropriate. But ''The Avengers'' was a huge cinematic event, the culmination of all the little hints at a future crossover across multiple preceding Marvel films; it was a big crowd-pleasing spectacle and the story was, while not a full-on ExcusePlot, fairly light on dramatic stakes overall. The major exception, the death of beloved minor background character Phil Coulson, was treated with appropriate gravity by the characters and the writing. ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'', by contrast, was much less fresh, the snark even more overwhelming, and attempts to make the story more dramatic and heavy only served to alienate audiences from the humor, especially when, for example, Quicksilver spends his last seconds of mortally-wounded life snarking at Hawkeye before what's supposed to be his heroic death.
** This criticism came to a head in ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' during the signature airport fight scene. The Avengers are literally split down the middle, fighting one another with some of them being as close as family. However, with the rule proving exception of Black Panther, not only do none of them show any angst, angst but everyone seems to be obsessed with trying to out-snark each other. One critic compared it to "A ''Star Wars'' movie where Luke, Leia, and Chewie all try to be Han Solo."
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The same problems would become further amplified when the MCU expanded to television streaming services. The increased output of MCU streaming shows meant that there wasn't enough time or resources for quality control, meaning that the franchise's problems like tonal inconsistency and garish visuals became all the more apparent. Furthermore, whereas MCU movies were seen as the gold standard in cinemas, MCU shows faced stiffed competition from acclaimed ongoing superhero shows like ''Series/TheBoys2019'' and ''WesternAnimation/HarleyQuinn2019''. Subsequently, the incursion into TV made the MCU's problems all the more blatant whether judging the shows on their own merits or in comparison to their rivals.

to:

** The same problems would become further amplified when the MCU expanded to television streaming services. The increased output of MCU streaming shows meant that there wasn't enough time or resources for quality control, meaning that the franchise's problems like tonal inconsistency and garish visuals became all the more apparent. Furthermore, whereas MCU movies were seen as the gold standard in cinemas, MCU shows faced stiffed competition from acclaimed ongoing superhero shows like ''Series/TheBoys2019'' and ''WesternAnimation/HarleyQuinn2019''.''WesternAnimation/HarleyQuinn2019'' as well as limited series like "Series/Watchmen2019". Subsequently, the incursion into TV made the MCU's problems all the more blatant whether judging the shows on their own merits or in comparison to their rivals.

Added: 2122

Removed: 2070

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* On a related note, the MCU's increasing reliance on sympathetic villains from Phase 3 and onward has been criticized as stale and badly written since said villains make legit points yet they still act gratuitously evil because they're villains. However, this trend first started with Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains. While Killmonger was sympathetic because of how he suffered from systemic racism, and rightfully criticized Wakanda for not helping impoverished black people, he still had gratuitous KickTheDog moments (i.e. shooting his girlfriend [[ShootTheHostage when Ulysses Klaue took her hostage]]) and strong hatred of white people that were added to remind audiences that he was still a villain. However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making a sympathetic villain feel fresh for the franchise. Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale in a way that allowed his FreudianExcuse, while [[FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse not remotely justification for his evil actions]], to be understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa put genuine effort into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bringing about real change. In contrast, the later sympathetic villains were less well-received either because of their unlikable personalities ([[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]]), shallow motivations ([[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]])), or forced evil actions ([[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]]). Even worse is that after defeating the villains, the heroes seldomly acknowledge their arguments or try to address them in favor of maintaining the status quo. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing and compelling anti-villain that holds up, his later imitators have neither his novelty nor nuanced characterization.



* The MCU's increasing reliance on sympathetic villains has been criticized as stale and badly written since said villains make legit points yet they still act gratuitously evil because they're villains. However, this trend first started with Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains. While Killmonger was sympathetic because of how he suffered from systemic racism, and rightfully criticized Wakanda for not helping impoverished black people, he still had gratuitous KickTheDog moments like shooting his girlfriend [[ShootTheHostage when Ulysses Klaue took her hostage]] and hatred of white people that were added to remind audiences that he was still a villain. However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making a sympathetic villain feel fresh for the franchise. Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale in a way that allowed his FreudianExcuse, while [[FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse not remotely justification for his evil actions]], to be understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa put genuine effort into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bringing about real change. In contrast, the later sympathetic villains were less well-received either because of their unlikable personalities ([[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]]), shallow motivations ([[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]])), or forced evil actions ([[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]]). Even worse is that after defeating the villains, the heroes seldomly acknowledge their arguments or try to address them in favor of maintaining the status quo. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing and compelling anti-villain that holds up, his later imitators have neither his novelty nor nuanced characterization.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* The MCU's increasing reliance on sympathetic villains has been criticized as stale and badly written since said villains make legit points yet they still act gratuitously evil because they're villains. However, this trend first started with Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains. While Killmonger was sympathetic because of how he suffered from systemic racism, and rightfully criticized Wakanda for not helping impoverished black people, he still had gratuitous KickTheDog moments like shooting his girlfriend [[ShootingTheHostage when Ulysses Klaue took her hostage]] and hatred of white people that were added to remind audiences that he was still a villain. However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making a sympathetic villain feel fresh for the franchise. Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale in a way that allowed his FreudianExcuse, while [[FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse not remotely justification for his evil actions]], to be understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa put genuine effort into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bringing about real change. In contrast, the later sympathetic villains were less well-received either because of their unlikable personalities ([[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]]), shallow motivations ([[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]])), or forced evil actions ([[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]]). Even worse is that after defeating the villains, the heroes seldomly acknowledge their arguments or try to address them in favor of maintaining the status quo. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing and compelling anti-villain that holds up, his later imitators have neither his novelty nor nuanced characterization.

to:

* The MCU's increasing reliance on sympathetic villains has been criticized as stale and badly written since said villains make legit points yet they still act gratuitously evil because they're villains. However, this trend first started with Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains. While Killmonger was sympathetic because of how he suffered from systemic racism, and rightfully criticized Wakanda for not helping impoverished black people, he still had gratuitous KickTheDog moments like shooting his girlfriend [[ShootingTheHostage [[ShootTheHostage when Ulysses Klaue took her hostage]] and hatred of white people that were added to remind audiences that he was still a villain. However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making a sympathetic villain feel fresh for the franchise. Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale in a way that allowed his FreudianExcuse, while [[FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse not remotely justification for his evil actions]], to be understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa put genuine effort into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bringing about real change. In contrast, the later sympathetic villains were less well-received either because of their unlikable personalities ([[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]]), shallow motivations ([[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]])), or forced evil actions ([[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]]). Even worse is that after defeating the villains, the heroes seldomly acknowledge their arguments or try to address them in favor of maintaining the status quo. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing and compelling anti-villain that holds up, his later imitators have neither his novelty nor nuanced characterization.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* The MCU's increasing reliance on sympathetic villains has been criticized as stale and badly written since said villains make legit points yet they still act gratuitously evil because they're villains. However, this trend first started with Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains. While Killmonger was sympathetic because of how he suffered from systemic racism, and rightfully criticized Wakanda for not helping impoverished black people, he still had gratuitous KickTheDog moments like the murder of his girlfriend and hatred of white people that were added to remind audiences that he was still a villain. However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making a sympathetic villain feel fresh for the franchise. Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale in a way that allowed his FreudianExcuse, while [[FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse not remotely justification for his evil actions]], to be understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa put genuine effort into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bringing about real change. In contrast, the later sympathetic villains were less well-received either because of their unlikable personalities ([[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]]), shallow motivations ([[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]])), or forced evil actions ([[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]]). Even worse is that after defeating the villains, the heroes seldomly acknowledge their arguments or try to address them in favor of maintaining the status quo. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing and compelling anti-villain that holds up, his later imitators have neither his novelty nor nuanced characterization.

to:

* The MCU's increasing reliance on sympathetic villains has been criticized as stale and badly written since said villains make legit points yet they still act gratuitously evil because they're villains. However, this trend first started with Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains. While Killmonger was sympathetic because of how he suffered from systemic racism, and rightfully criticized Wakanda for not helping impoverished black people, he still had gratuitous KickTheDog moments like the murder of shooting his girlfriend [[ShootingTheHostage when Ulysses Klaue took her hostage]] and hatred of white people that were added to remind audiences that he was still a villain. However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making a sympathetic villain feel fresh for the franchise. Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale in a way that allowed his FreudianExcuse, while [[FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse not remotely justification for his evil actions]], to be understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa put genuine effort into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bringing about real change. In contrast, the later sympathetic villains were less well-received either because of their unlikable personalities ([[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]]), shallow motivations ([[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]])), or forced evil actions ([[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]]). Even worse is that after defeating the villains, the heroes seldomly acknowledge their arguments or try to address them in favor of maintaining the status quo. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing and compelling anti-villain that holds up, his later imitators have neither his novelty nor nuanced characterization.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* Relatedly, a lot of people have noted how the main characters' costumes changing for each installment was getting very annoying and unnecessary in Phases 4 and 5. While the updating of superhero costumes has been a staple for the previous three phases, people didn't have a problem with it back then, as the costume changes were usually done to show CostumeEvolution and were generally weaved into the story (i.e: Iron Man constantly building new suits or Captain America updating his costume to fit the modern era). Later installments, however, can't seem to stop changing costumes for their heroes even when there isn't anything wrong with them, causing complaints for people who liked a previous version of the suit.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Does that really need to be capitalized? I'm genuinely curious...


* The MCU's increasing reliance on sympathetic villains has been criticized as stale and badly written since said villains make legit points yet they still act gratuitously evil because they're villains. However, this trend first started with Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains. While Killmonger was sympathetic because of how he suffered from systemic racism, and rightfully criticized Wakanda for not helping impoverished Black people, he still had gratuitous KickTheDog moments like the murder of his girlfriend and hatred of white people that were added to remind audiences that he was still a villain. However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making a sympathetic villain feel fresh for the franchise. Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale in a way that allowed his FreudianExcuse, while [[FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse not remotely justification for his evil actions]], to be understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa put genuine effort into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bringing about real change. In contrast, the later sympathetic villains were less well-received either because of their unlikable personalities ([[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]]), shallow motivations ([[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]])), or forced evil actions ([[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]]). Even worse is that after defeating the villains, the heroes seldomly acknowledge their arguments or try to address them in favor of maintaining the status quo. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing and compelling anti-villain that holds up, his later imitators have neither his novelty nor nuanced characterization.

to:

* The MCU's increasing reliance on sympathetic villains has been criticized as stale and badly written since said villains make legit points yet they still act gratuitously evil because they're villains. However, this trend first started with Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains. While Killmonger was sympathetic because of how he suffered from systemic racism, and rightfully criticized Wakanda for not helping impoverished Black black people, he still had gratuitous KickTheDog moments like the murder of his girlfriend and hatred of white people that were added to remind audiences that he was still a villain. However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making a sympathetic villain feel fresh for the franchise. Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale in a way that allowed his FreudianExcuse, while [[FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse not remotely justification for his evil actions]], to be understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa put genuine effort into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bringing about real change. In contrast, the later sympathetic villains were less well-received either because of their unlikable personalities ([[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]]), shallow motivations ([[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]])), or forced evil actions ([[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]]). Even worse is that after defeating the villains, the heroes seldomly acknowledge their arguments or try to address them in favor of maintaining the status quo. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing and compelling anti-villain that holds up, his later imitators have neither his novelty nor nuanced characterization.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''[[Series/MsMarvel2022 Ms. Marvel]]'' faced backlash for changing Kamala Khan's powers from shape-shifting/size-altering to hard-light constructs. The franchise had likewise altered characters' powers with Scarlet Witch and Captain Marvel (Monica Rambeau). Scarlet Witch went from magical, probability-altering hex-bolts as her primary power to telekinesis and mind-control from the Mind Stone. Captain Marvel went from {{s|upersenses}}ensing, [[FlyingFirePower projecting]] and [[{{Invisibility}} shifting]] into [[IntangibleMan energy]] from the [[MagnetismManipulation entire electromagnetic spectrum]] at [[SuperSpeed light speed]] to nebulous "energy manipulation" that [[AdaptationalWimp mostly amounts]] to [[LightEmUp pretty light shows]]. But while Scarlet Witch's case could be written off as [[PragmaticAdaptation pragmatism]] to simplify a confusing power for mainstream audiences and make it more visually impressive, and Captain Marvel's just being [[StoryBreakerPower plain easier to deal with all around]], Comic!Kamala's powers are simpler than her MCU counterpart's. Many were looking forward to seeing her use her elasticity powers[[note]]A power she originally possessed due to the then-absence of a more notable hero with that same power: [[ComicBook/FantasticFour Mister Fantastic]][[/note]] in live-action. Wanda's powers were also unique in the MCU, at least at the time and in scale, whereas Monica was at least given powers that mostly resemble her comic book counterpart as one of several company wide {{authors saving throw}}s after critics started calling out Marvel for [[DemotedToExtra shafting]] the character [[ComicBookLimbo for decades]]. Kamala's colorful, energy-based powers[[note]]A change not only made due to the announcement of a planned ''Fantastic Four'' film but one that was made [[RetCanon canon]] when Ms. Marvel died and got revived in the comics to be more in-line with her MCU depiction[[/note]], by contrast, aren't just inaccurate but also struggle to stand out after ''Film/{{Eternals}}'' and ''Film/{{Captain Marvel|2019}}''.

to:

* ''[[Series/MsMarvel2022 Ms. Marvel]]'' faced backlash for changing Kamala Khan's powers from shape-shifting/size-altering to hard-light constructs. The franchise had likewise altered characters' powers with Scarlet Witch and Captain Marvel (Monica Rambeau). Scarlet Witch went from magical, probability-altering hex-bolts as her primary power to telekinesis and mind-control from the Mind Stone. Captain Marvel went from {{s|upersenses}}ensing, SuperSenses, [[FlyingFirePower projecting]] and [[{{Invisibility}} shifting]] into [[IntangibleMan energy]] from the [[MagnetismManipulation entire electromagnetic spectrum]] at [[SuperSpeed light speed]] to nebulous "energy manipulation" that [[AdaptationalWimp mostly amounts]] to [[LightEmUp pretty light shows]]. But while Scarlet Witch's case could be written off as [[PragmaticAdaptation pragmatism]] to simplify a confusing power for mainstream audiences and make it more visually impressive, and Captain Marvel's just being [[StoryBreakerPower plain easier to deal with all around]], Comic!Kamala's powers are simpler than her MCU counterpart's. Many were looking forward to seeing her use her elasticity powers[[note]]A power she originally possessed due to the then-absence of a more notable hero with that same power: [[ComicBook/FantasticFour Mister Fantastic]][[/note]] in live-action. Wanda's powers were also unique in the MCU, at least at the time and in scale, whereas Monica was at least given powers that mostly resemble her comic book counterpart as one of several company wide {{authors saving throw}}s after critics started calling out Marvel for [[DemotedToExtra shafting]] the character [[ComicBookLimbo for decades]]. Kamala's colorful, energy-based powers[[note]]A change not only made due to the announcement of a planned ''Fantastic Four'' film but one that was made [[RetCanon canon]] when Ms. Marvel died and got revived in the comics to be more in-line with her MCU depiction[[/note]], by contrast, aren't just inaccurate but also struggle to stand out after ''Film/{{Eternals}}'' and ''Film/{{Captain Marvel|2019}}''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* The MCU's increasing reliance on sympathetic villains has been criticized as stale and badly written since said villains make legit points yet they still act gratuitously evil because they're villains. However, this trend first started with Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains. While Killmonger was sympathetic because of how he suffered from systemic racism, and rightfully criticized Wakanda for not helping impoverished Black people, he still had gratuitous KickTheDog moments like the murder of his girlfriend and hatred of white people that were added to remind audiences that he was still a villain. However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making a sympathetic villain feel fresh for the franchise. Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale in a way that allowed his FreudianExcuse, while not remotely justification for his evil actions, to be understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa put genuine effort into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bringing about real change. In contrast, the later sympathetic villains were less well-received either because of their unlikable personalities ([[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]]), shallow motivations ([[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]])), or forced evil actions ([[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]]). Even worse is that after defeating the villains, the heroes seldomly acknowledge their arguments or try to address them in favor of maintaining the status quo. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing and compelling anti-villain that holds up, his later imitators have neither his novelty nor nuanced characterization.

to:

* The MCU's increasing reliance on sympathetic villains has been criticized as stale and badly written since said villains make legit points yet they still act gratuitously evil because they're villains. However, this trend first started with Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains. While Killmonger was sympathetic because of how he suffered from systemic racism, and rightfully criticized Wakanda for not helping impoverished Black people, he still had gratuitous KickTheDog moments like the murder of his girlfriend and hatred of white people that were added to remind audiences that he was still a villain. However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making a sympathetic villain feel fresh for the franchise. Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale in a way that allowed his FreudianExcuse, while [[FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse not remotely justification for his evil actions, actions]], to be understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa put genuine effort into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bringing about real change. In contrast, the later sympathetic villains were less well-received either because of their unlikable personalities ([[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]]), shallow motivations ([[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]])), or forced evil actions ([[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]]). Even worse is that after defeating the villains, the heroes seldomly acknowledge their arguments or try to address them in favor of maintaining the status quo. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing and compelling anti-villain that holds up, his later imitators have neither his novelty nor nuanced characterization.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Spelling/grammar fix(es)


* The MCU's increasing reliance on sympathetic villains has been criticized as stale and badly written since said villains make legit points yet they still act gratuitously evil because they're villains. However, this trend started with the first notable case of this was Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains. While Killmonger was sympathetic because of how he suffered from systemic racism, and rightfully criticized Wakanda for not helping impoverished Black people, he still had gratuitous KickTheDog moments like the murder of his girlfriend and hatred of white people that were added to remind audiences that he was still a villain. However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making a sympathetic villain feel fresh for the franchise. Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale in a way that allowed his FreudianExcuse, while not remotely justification for his evil actions, to be understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa put genuine effort into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bringing about real change. In contrast, the later sympathetic villains were less well-received either because of their unlikable personalities ([[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]]), shallow motivations ([[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]])) and forced evil actions ([[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]]). Even worse is that after defeating the villains, the heroes seldomly acknowledge their arguments or try to address them in favor of maintaining the status quo. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing and compelling anti-villain that holds up, his later imitators have neither his novelty nor nuanced characterization.

to:

* The MCU's increasing reliance on sympathetic villains has been criticized as stale and badly written since said villains make legit points yet they still act gratuitously evil because they're villains. However, this trend first started with the first notable case of this was Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains. While Killmonger was sympathetic because of how he suffered from systemic racism, and rightfully criticized Wakanda for not helping impoverished Black people, he still had gratuitous KickTheDog moments like the murder of his girlfriend and hatred of white people that were added to remind audiences that he was still a villain. However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making a sympathetic villain feel fresh for the franchise. Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale in a way that allowed his FreudianExcuse, while not remotely justification for his evil actions, to be understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa put genuine effort into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bringing about real change. In contrast, the later sympathetic villains were less well-received either because of their unlikable personalities ([[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]]), shallow motivations ([[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]])) and Dar-Benn]])), or forced evil actions ([[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]]). Even worse is that after defeating the villains, the heroes seldomly acknowledge their arguments or try to address them in favor of maintaining the status quo. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing and compelling anti-villain that holds up, his later imitators have neither his novelty nor nuanced characterization.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Audiences have criticized MCU's increasing reliance on sympathetic villains, who have understandable motives but extreme methods, which they see as stale and inconsistent since said villains make legit points yet still to act gratuitously evil. The first notable case of this was Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains. While Killmonger was sympathetic as a result of how he suffered from systemic racism, and rightfully criticized Wakanda for not helping impoverished Black people, he still had gratuitous KickTheDog moments like the murder of his girlfriend and hatred of white people that were added to remind audiences that he was still a villain. Yet nonetheless, Killmonger was still held in high regard as a complex bad guy instead of an unlikable, one-dimensional straw character. For what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making a sympathetic villain feel fresh for the franchise. Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale in a way that allowed his FreudianExcuse, while not remotely justification for his evil actions, to still be understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa put genuine effort into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bringing about real change. In contrast, the later sympathetic villains were less well-received either because of their unlikable personalities ([[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]]), shallow motivations ([[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]])), forced evil actions ([[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]]) and arguments that were seemingly ignored by the heroes in favor of maintaining the status quo. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing anti-villain that holds up, his later imitators have neither his novelty nor nuanced characterization.

to:

* Audiences have criticized The MCU's increasing reliance on sympathetic villains, who have understandable motives but extreme methods, which they see villains has been criticized as stale and inconsistent badly written since said villains make legit points yet they still to act gratuitously evil. The evil because they're villains. However, this trend started with the first notable case of this was Killmonger from ''Film/{{Black Panther|2018}}'', who is generally seen as one of the best MCU villains. While Killmonger was sympathetic as a result because of how he suffered from systemic racism, and rightfully criticized Wakanda for not helping impoverished Black people, he still had gratuitous KickTheDog moments like the murder of his girlfriend and hatred of white people that were added to remind audiences that he was still a villain. Yet nonetheless, Killmonger was still held in high regard as a complex bad guy instead of an unlikable, one-dimensional straw character. For However, what Killmonger had that later similarly sympathetically motivated villains lacked was that Killmonger was one of the first such villains to be featured in the MCU after a long history of largely much more generically evil villains, making a sympathetic villain feel fresh for the franchise. Furthermore, Killmonger's characterization was genuinely sympathetic as the film explored his tragic backstory and his rationale in a way that allowed his FreudianExcuse, while not remotely justification for his evil actions, to still be understandable. Yet most importantly, after Killmonger's defeat, T'Challa put genuine effort into addressing Killmonger's arguments and bringing about real change. In contrast, the later sympathetic villains were less well-received either because of their unlikable personalities ([[Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier Karli Morgenthau]]), shallow motivations ([[Film/TheMarvels2023 Dar-Benn]])), Dar-Benn]])) and forced evil actions ([[Series/SecretInvasion2023 Gravik]]) and arguments Gravik]]). Even worse is that were seemingly ignored by after defeating the villains, the heroes seldomly acknowledge their arguments or try to address them in favor of maintaining the status quo. So while Killmonger was seen as a refreshing and compelling anti-villain that holds up, his later imitators have neither his novelty nor nuanced characterization.

Top