History DethroningMoment / FinalFantasy

* Tropers/{{Catmuto}}: The repeated {{SenselessSacrifice}}s over the course of the game were pretty bad, but there are multiple ones and I cannot say one is worse than the other. And then I found the real [=DMoS=] in this game for me. It's the big, epic scene against the Giant of Babel, that shows that every single one of those sacrifices was reverted. They were all peachy-okay and no worse for the wear than before. It already made their silly sacrificial scenes come off worse, mocking the concept of sacrifices almost (which is weird, since Square overall seems to like the idea of at least one character sacrificing themselves for the great good in practically every Final Fantasy) and takes all the drama away. The only one who doesn't get 'resurrected' is [[spoiler: Tellah]], of course. A very bad design choice - either let those sacrifices stick or do not make me go through multiple sacrifices (even more than one for a character) to begin with.

** {{Tropers/ThatsNumberwang}}: The point where this whole game came crashing down for me was just how poorly handled the focuses are. Once someone becomes a L'Cie, they are given a mission to complete within a certain time limit or they will turn into a monster. Sounds straightforward so far, right? Except for the fact that you are never actually told what your mission objectives are making the whole thing a complete shot in the dark from start to finish. Oh, but don't worry, the Fal'Cie are good enough to give you a hint in the form of a short and hazy mental image with zero context to set you on your way. To put this into real life terms, imagine being handed a photograph of a random person or place without explanation by a guy with a gun who then tells you to complete the task before you lest he blows your brains out. And what makes this worse, what genuinely made me turn off my PlayStation and return later, is the revelation about two thirds of the way through that the Fal'Cie can talk. Any justification that the contextless focus dream is the only way that they can communicate with human beings is instantly shot in the foot when we learn that at any time they could have just told them exactly what it is that they wanted them to do. Yeah, you read that right: The Fal'Cie are intentionally setting up people that they've tasked with helping them to fail.

** {{Tropers/ThatsNumberwang}}: The point where this whole game came crashing down for me was just how poorly handled the focuses are. Once someone becomes a L'Cie, they are given a mission to complete within a certain time limit or they will turn into a monster. Sounds straightforward so far, right? Except for the fact that you are never actually told what your mission objectives are making the whole thing a complete shot in the dark from start to finish. Oh, but don't worry, the Fal'Cie are good enough to give you a hint in the form of a short and hazy mental image with zero context to set you on your way. To put this into real life terms, imagine being handed a photograph of a random person or place without explanation by a guy with a gun who then tells you to complete the task before you lest he blows your brains out. And what makes this worse, what genuinely made me turn of my PlayStation and return later, is the revelation about two thirds of the way through that the Fal'Cie can talk. Any justification that the contextless focus dream is the only way that they can communicate with human beings is instantly shot in the foot when we learn that at any time they could have just told them exactly what it is that they wanted them to do. Yeah, you read that right: The Fal'Cie are intentionally setting up people that they've tasked with helping them to fail.

** Tropers/HeroicJay: It's not that I disagree with you (I don't), but I suspect that the original script had all those characters (except Tellah) stay in the party long-term, with a party-switching system of some sort like later games (and some versions of ''IV'', later on) had, but technical reasons interfered with this. After all, doesn't every single one of the game's pseudo-sacrifices happen shortly before you would otherwise surpass the ArbitraryHeadcountLimit? This is even supported a bit by the game's code, as the original game would track the EXP of few characters (Cid, most notably) after they leave the team, and Palom and Porom kept learning spells long, ''long'' past the level the vast majority of players would have ever bothered to level them to (remakes notwithstanding).\\
Now, Tellah's sacrifice was foreshadowed, and he clearly does not have the stats to be viable in the late game, so I do believe his death was always supposed to be real. And a few other events that reduce your party count (Rosa's kidnapping, Leviathan's attack, Kain's HeelFaceRevolvingDoor, Fusoya leaving near the end) do seem necessary. Beyond those, though, the only one that adds anything at all to the game was the slapstick joke that leads to getting the Sylph summon, and there were other ways that one could have been handled. And furthermore, all your former party members (except Tellah and Fusoya) congregate in Mysidia late in the game -- yes, in ''all'' versions of the game! -- and that's where you go to switch characters in the GBA version and related remakes.\\
So, yeah, I think the pseudo-sacrifices were only meant to cover the intended-but-dropped party switching mechanic. I could be wrong, though. I agree that it was clumsily handled either way.

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Final Fantasy XV]]
* I had a lot of complaints with Final Fantasy XV's pacing issues, but nowhere do I feel this is more pronounced than the invasion of Insomnia cutscene early on in the first act. The cutscene plays out in a series of rapid and poorly edited sequences that make it look more like a film trailer than a proper cutscene, to the point that I thought it was a NightmareSequence due to Noct being shown waking up immediately after. What pushes this into suck territory for me is that I later discovered that a tie-in anime called Kingsglaive exists that shows this event in great detail, including the not-so-insignificant reveal that the demonic knight that kills Regis is actually the trusted advisor you left him with at the start of the game! This is not the only important thing the film covers throughout the game , and I resent the notion that I should be expected to watch a separate film just to understand the plot of my new game. Square-Enix, if this game is for 'Fans and First-Timers' then how do you expect the first-timers who aren't rabidly following your twitter feed to know about Kingsglaive? Imagine if FinalFantasyVII required you to read a separate book that the game in no way hinted existed just to understand what the hell's going on. Wouldn't be such a classic then, would it?

* I had a lot of complaints with Final Fantasy XV's pacing issues, but nowhere do I feel this is more pronounced than the invasion of Insomnia cutscene early on in the first act. The cutscene plays out in a series of rapid and poorly cut scenes that make it look more like a film trailer than a proper cutscene, to the point that I thought it was a NightmareSequence due to Noct being shown waking up immediately after. What pushes this into suck territory for me is that I later discovered that a tie-in anime called Kingsglaive exists that shows this event in great detail, including the not-so-insignificant reveal that the demonic knight that kills Regis is actually the trusted advisor you left him with at the start of the game! This is not the only important thing the film covers throughout the game , and I resent the notion that I should be expected to watch a separate film just to understand the plot of my new game. Square-Enix, if this game is for 'Fans and First-Timers' then how do you expect the first-timers who aren't rabidly following your twitter feed to know about Kingsglaive? Imagine if FinalFantasyVII required you to read a separate book that the game in no way hinted existed just to understand what the hell's going on. Wouldn't be such a classic then, would it?

* One moment per game to a troper, if multiple entries are signed to the same troper the more recent one will be cut.

[[folder: Final Fantasy VII]]

[[folder:Final Fantasy XIII]]

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Final Fantasy XIII-2]]

[[/folder]]

[[folder: Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII]]

* Tropers/{{Catmuto}}: The repeated {{SenselessSacrifice}}s over the course of the game were pretty bad, but there are multiple ones and I cannot say one is worse than the other. And then I found the real [=DMoS=] in this game for me. It's the big, epic scene against the Giang of Babel, that shows that every single one of those sacrifices was reverted. They were all peachy-okay and no worse for the wear than before. It already made their silly sacrificial scenes come off worse, mocking the concept of sacrifices almost (which is weird, since Square overall seems to like the idea of at least one character sacrificing themselves for the great good in practically every Final Fantasy) and takes all the drama away. The only one who doesn't get 'resurrected' is [[spoiler: Tellah]], of course. A very bad design choice - either let those sacrifices stick or do not make me go through multiple sacrifices (even more than one for a character) to begin with.

* Tropers/{{Catmuto}}: The repeated SenselessSacrifices over the course of the game were pretty bad, but there are multiple ones and I cannot say one is worse than the other. And then I found the real [=DMoS=] in this game for me. It's the big, epic scene against the Giang of Babel, that shows that every single one of those sacrifices was reverted. They were all peachy-okay and no worse for the wear than before. It already made their silly sacrificial scenes come off worse, mocking the concept of sacrifices almost (which is weird, since Square overall seems to like the idea of at least one character sacrificing themselves for the great good in practically every Final Fantasy) and takes all the drama away. The only one who doesn't get 'resurrected' is [[spoiler: Tellah]], of course. A very bad design choice - either let those sacrifices stick or do not make me go through multiple sacrifices (even more than one for a character) to begin with.

* Tropers/{{Catmuto}}: Now, I personally enjoyed ''[[VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII XIII]]'' and ''[[VideoGame/LightningReturnsFinalFantasyXIII Lightning Returns]]''. But something that pissed me off so much in this game was the sudden emphasis on a reciprocated love between Noel and Yeul. Recalling back to the [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII2 previous game]], the only time we actually saw the Yeul that Noel knew, it was [[spoiler: in his dream world]]. Call me too cynical, but that is not a time where I would take such a revelation seriously. It was a heavily biased area, for all I know, Noel could have been simply showing the player what he wanted it to be, rather than what it was. And yet, it feels so suddenly out of nowhere, when pretty much every Yeul in the game says that this specific Yeul was in love with Noel, not Caius. It felt shoe-horned in, like [=Square=] wanted to stop people from [[FanPreferredShipping shipping Serah and Noel together]] and had, honestly, no place in the game entirely.

* Tropers/{{Catmuto}}: Now, I personally enjoyed ''[[VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII'' and ''[[VideoGame/LightningReturnsFinalFantasyXIII Lightning Returns]]''. But something that pissed me off so much in this game was the sudden emphasis on a reciprocated love between Noel and Yeul. Recalling back to the [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII2 previous game]], the only time we actually saw the Yeul that Noel knew, it was [[spoiler: in his dream world]]. Call me too cynical, but that is not a time where I would take such a revelation seriously. It was a heavily biased area, for all I know, Noel could have been simply showing the player what he wanted it to be, rather than what it was. And yet, it feels so suddenly out of nowhere, when pretty much every Yeul in the game says that this specific Yeul was in love with Noel, not Caius. It felt shoe-horned in, like [=Square=] wanted to stop people from [[FanPreferredShipping shipping Serah and Noel together]] and had, honestly, no place in the game entirely.

* Tropers/{{Catmuto}}: I overall didn't enjoy ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII'', but there was this one moment in the game that made me hate ever having played the game to begin with. It's actually somewhat early on, Disc 1, when the group makes it to North Corel and learn Barret's background. Shinra wanted to build a Mako Reactor there and persuaded almost the entire town to say yes, even Barret was eventually persuaded, after being an initial nay-sayer. In the end, Shinra builds the Mako Reactor and the reactor eventually goes boom, lots of dead and injured and problems. And yet everyone in North Corel is blaming Barret, like he is the sole reason the Mako Reactor exploded or was built in the first place. Do these people have selective memory? Aside from seemingly denying that they said yes, too, the last person who was against the building of the reactor and kept saying no? DYNE! Dyne was the last person, he was the one who gave the final yes needed to build the damn thing. North Corel is full of people who are horrible jerks, I do not feel any sympathy for them and I see no reason why they blame Barret so much. I may not like Barret a lot, but he did not deserve to be hated that much by the townspeople.

[[folder:Final Fantasy VII]]
* Sampacm: Don't get me wrong. This was an excellent game with a great story, but the ending of VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII was so bland and dull, that it ruined the expreience of subsequent games in the franchise, making it a Dethroning Moment Of Suck and a WallBanger at the same time. I invite you to see [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR4pVC5dV3E this video]] (if you understand spanish), and skip to 18:11 for a more detailed explanation.
[[/folder]]

* Tropers/KingZeal: ''FinalFantasyVIII'' gave me a Dethroning Scene Of Suck. The entire damn Garden War between Balamb and Galbadia gardens prior to actually entering Galbadia garden. Rinoa's DistressBall derails almost everything happening concurrently in regards to plot and characterization. Examples? The Garden War scene where she's hanging from the edge and the party comes back to get Squall to rescue her. Keep in mind that, at this point, Squall has been deemed the commander of this war and the life of every Balamb student ([=SeeD=] or otherwise) is his responsibility. Squall refuses to go and save ONE student as opposed to the dozens, if not hundreds that need him now—then the party completely disregards what he says and tells him to do it anyway while they make up their own plan. I'm sorry, who was in charge here again? Worse, they use the phrase "Rinoa is one of us" for their justification (as opposed to, you know, the other people in the Garden whom many either grew up with and befriended long before Rinoa came along). Next, when Squall actually mounts his rescue, the means to do so literally drops into his lap through Contrived Coincidence. Third, after he rescues her, he and Rinoa run through an intense battlefield with warriors from both sides killing and being killed mercilessly while they head to defeat the BigBad behind the whole war. Then, they suddenly decide to stop and have a cutesy romantic conversation involving Squall's ring—while the people under Squall's command are fighting and dying a few yards away.

** Tropers/{{Manwiththeplan}}: The dragged-out sequence where it was revealed that all the party members (sans Rinoa and including Seifer) all grew up together in the same orphanage, which was run by the apparent BigBad Edea. This comes completely out of nowhere, as does the AssPull revelation that GF summons cause memory loss (Selphie's example of this happening is particularly forced). Irvine remembers everything though, which admittedly does add a much better motive to his hesitance to shoot Edea earlier besides "he's a coward", but the whole sequence is still very improbable, illogical, and in the grand scheme of things, adds little to the story other than a lame ShockingSwerve.

** {{Tropers/Carroty}}: The game’s in-universe retconning of XIII’s ending as well as its message. In the first game humans were revealed to be special, and capable of choosing their own fate unlike the Fal’Cie, which is why the Fal'Cie used l'Cie instead of doing stuff themselves. Lightning and co. were able to overcome their destinies as l'Cie, and choose to save Cocoon rather than destroy it. The game also touched on the aspects of freedom versus safety. The people of Cocoon were like pets, entirely dependent on the Fal’Cie to provide their every need. Food, clothing, shelter, even their sun was provided by the Fal’Cie. To break free of the Fal’Cie would thrust humanity into the wilderness of the planet Pulse, and while XIII’s ending is optimistic there is uncertainty how this society that has never had to worry about basic necessities would survive on its own. XIII-2 ruined all that. Instead it turns out that no, humans are not special or capable of overcoming their destinies. Lightning and co. did not succeed through their will at all, it took a goddess feeling pity on them to rewrite history for them to win at the end of XIII. Then we see what has become of humanity since leaving Cocoon and...beach houses. They built a bunch of beach houses. Even Serah lives in what looks like a luxurious tropical resort. They fish and grow gardens and everything seems too easy for what should have been humanity being forced to live on the surface of Pulse after generations of being pampered pets.

** Tropers/{{Manwiththeplan}}: The dragged-out sequence where it was revealed that all the party members (sans Rinoa and including Seifer) all grew up together in the same orphanage, which was run by the apparent BigBad Edea. This comes completely out of nowhere, as does the AssPull revelation that GF summons cause memory loss (Selphie's example of this happening is particularly forced) Irvine remembers everything though, which admittedly does add a much better motive to his hesitance to shoot Edea earlier besides "he's a coward", but the whole sequence is still very improbable, illogical, and in the grand scheme of things, adds little to the story other than a lame ShockingSwerve.

* Fofa: ''[[SoulSeries Soul Calibur V]]'', I have a problem with your writing. Pyrrha and Patroklos are the SpotlightStealingSquad and none of the other characters get any real story time. The ReplacementScrappy levels are too high, and the games' story could have just ended at ''IV''. But I draw the line at how you wrote out my favourite character, Cassandra. Bascially, [[spoiler:She was shocked into a one-blow submission from Sophitia's forced FaceHeelTurn and somehow ended up in an alternate dimension, unable to return]]. Come on Namco, Cassandra was more badass than that! I'm calling FanonDiscontinuity on this one.
** StormKensho: What really teed me off about SC5 was the developer justification for why Taki(longtime series EnsembleDarkhorse) had retired from her mission of hunting the evil of Soul Edge: Apparently, Taki being 46 years-old meant she was too old to be a ninja and, like a proper woman, retired and trained a successor. Talk about massive ValuesDissonance! For one, anyone, especially a woman(who generally age a good bit slower than men, especially if they don't put their bodies through the stress of pregnancy and childbirth) will be more than capable of performing physical acrobatics and possess above-average flexibility into their fifties if they're vigorous enough with training and keeping themselves in shape, which Taki undoubtedly would due to being, y'know, Taki. Secondly, Mitsurugi is the exact same age as Taki in SC5 and is just as skilled and as capable as he was 17 years prior despite being in a similarly-harrowing profession.
** Animeking1108: What turned me against the game was Patroklos' EstablishingCharacterMoment, where he murders an innocent man suspected of being Malfested. What made it even worse was the smug smile he had while saying "It's a shame you can't prove it" after the man claimed his innocence. Really, Namco? DesignatedHero doesn't even describe him. I give [[KingOfTheHill Hank Hill]], [[Series/ICarly Carly Shay]], and HaruhiSuzumiya crap for being in the DesignatedHero trope, but at least they never killed anybody.