This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
I'm not entirely sure if the Wii is the absolute winner of the current home console war so far, given that the Xbox 360 is driving third-party sales way higher than it (I'm talking about a 3:1 proportion here), which really represents the market as a whole, while the Wii's main selling titles are all Nintendo-branded.
Game Guru GG: Wii outsells the Xbox 360, isn't it? That means, as it stands, it's winning the console war. If we used third-parties to determine the victor, then Xbox 360 and PS 3 would be practically tied as nearly all the third-party titles for the systems are multiplatform. The reason for the lack of third-party support is three-fold. First, Nintendo made the Wii. Nintendo hasn't seen decent third-party support since the SNES, and the Game Cube was a huge flop. Why give any energy for this console that, even compared to the gap between PS 2 and Xbox, was vastly inferior to the other two consoles and had a controller that looked to be a gimmick? Second, most of the Japanese third-parties expected the PS 3 to sell like the PS 2, which is the best selling console ever. They thusly threw their entire support into the PS 3, and it was only when the Japanese third-parties realized that PS 3 was going to be third place that they started porting PS 3 games to the Xbox 360. Third, most of the Western third parties are also current or former PC developers and preferred both Xbox and Xbox 360 to the other systems, and even they have to port their games to the PS 3 now. The mere fact that Nintendo has the best selling console DESPITE only being able to rely on itself makes the Wii a Crowning Moment Of Awesome for Nintendo nearly on par with reviving the North American Video Game Industry with the NES.
rjung: Let's stick to reality here, folks. According to all indications — both Nintendo's own worldwide numbers and NPD's North American ones — the Wii is selling more software (first- and third-party
) than the X Box 360 or the PS 3. The perception that "only Nintendo games sell on the Wii" is pure fanwankery, and not substantiated by any of the available data. True, software sales on the HD consoles tend to be more front-loaded (that is, they sell more on first release), but the Wii market makes up for the difference in consumers and time. Oftentimes, multiplatform titles sell better on the Wii than on the HD consoles — examples include Shaun White Snowboarding, Lego Star Wars, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, Tiger Woods, Rock Band, and Guitar Hero.
Andrew Leprich (nitpicking): While it's probably true that the Dreamcast does not easily fit into any gen, it definitely belongs in the PS2/Cube/Xbox era more so than the PS1/N64 era, as it was intended to compete against the PS2 from the get-go, and presumably the Xbox and Cube as well had Sega not pulled the plug.
Morgan Wick: And yet you didn't pull it from the PS 1-N64 era.
Andrew Leprich: Uh, yes, I did, Morgan...
Seth: I had a Sega Megadrive thank you very much and it isn't even listed :(
HeartBurn Kid: Actually, yes it is. The Megadrive is the same console known in America as the Genesis.
Morgan Wick: Aw, you ruined his delusion of owning a piece of obscure console history...
Seth: No, just made me wonder why people bother having different names for things from the US and England (Explain your war on the letter U, Colour, Armour ect...). Did they think we would get it confused with the band? (Still i love that Harry Potter and the Philosophers Stone was renamed on the basis that most Americans didn't know what a philosopher was)
HeartBurn Kid: No, the average American marketer doesn't know what a philosopher is, and assumes everybody else is as stupid as he is. As for the console question, we actually got the renamed version, not you; the console was known as the Megadrive everywhere but North America. Why they renamed it here, I don't know, but I always thought it could be a subtle jab at Nintendo of America's rampant censorship of any and all religious imagery (among many, many other things).
BT The P: I still say the American title of the first Harry Potter should have been Harry Potter and the Family Stone. Dance to the music! Ow, yeah! (before you ask, I'm speaking of "Sly and the Family Stone".)
Looney Toons: I feel somehow compelled to mention paper bag manufacturing company Jefferson Smurfit and the Stone Container Corporation (recently renamed "Smurfit-Stone"), if only because of the number of comedy vectors the name offers.
HeartBurn Kid: Seth, I dunno if adding Megadrive to that is a good idea, if only because it means we'll have to sub in "NES/Famicom", "SNES/Super Famicom", "Sega Master System/SG-1000 Mark III", et. al. Oh, and Looney Toons, I must agree, "Jefferson Smurfit and the Stone Container Corporation" is a hilarious name. I may just have to develop something around it for this year's NaNoWriMo.
Seth: Didn't you guys say that the Megadrive was the default name and it was Genesis in America only? In that case then it should be Megadrive only. I subbed it in once to show the distinction since i had never heard it called a Genisis before and i'm sure i'm not alone. If you want to add all the alternate names for the SNES be my guest but there is no harm in it, if you want to put it in brackets under (Also known as:...) feel free but i dont see a reason not to have the information at all.
HeartBurn Kid: Don't want to make it a flame war or anything, but I just want to point out that most of these game consoles were made in Japan, and the average Japanese person has no earthly clue what an NES, Sega Master System, Genesis, SNES, TurboGrafx, et al. is (since they all have different names that they were originally marketed under), so again, we'll have to sub in many more names. And once we start down that road, where exactly do we stop? The average Russian has no idea what an NES or a Famicom is, but has fond childhood memories of his Dendy. If we include every name for every console, this article might just become very lengthy and very unreadable. Not to mention we'll create a shortage of forward slashes by using them all up in this article. :)
Seth: If you don't want a flame war don't be anal over minor(Valid) edits. Is it really that important? I put a slash with an alternate name of a console in an entry to avoid more British readers like me being confused and needing to go to the talk page. My point was that you were claiming your name was the only one worth mentioning, neither name is "The name" and both deserve mentioning equally. If someone knew it by any of the names you have listed then they should feel free to add them, its being thorough and I disagree that the American name is instantly the right name. I also don't see why you are contesting it since it was such a small edit. I've made statements before (Ignored) that I dislike that our media are sidelined by the predominantly American wiki. But it's just a pet peeve. Call the slash/bracketed other names whatever being through and don't bait a flame war by contesting something this small based on personal preference (This is all over 10 characters for cripes sake). Also most anime articles have the original Japanese name, an English translation and whatever fan nickname the series has — Hale and Guu has an entire section on different interpretations of its name so adding one different version of the name isn't without precedent.
HeartBurn Kid: I had no intention of "baiting a flame war", I merely wanted to voice what I felt was a valid concern as to the readability of this article. If it's honestly this important to you, and stirs up this much emotion for you, OK, you win.
Morgan Wick: I'm surprised Seth wasn't stronger or earlier in calling HBK America-centric. This sort of concern starts a lot of flame wars on Wikipedia. Be glad we don't have many Australian editors! (Incidentially, I'm not taking either side in this dispute.)
Ununnilium: I just want some pants! A decent pair of pants!
Seth: See this is what im talking about :_(. As i said it's just a pet peeve, i'm more than happy to work around it The only place i actually care is with the Torchwood Spoilers section and stuff like that.
Phartman: Isn't censorship just a bitch, Mr. Wick?
Yoshi348: IIRC the Megadrive was renamed in the US because somebody already had a US trademark on the name "Megadrive".
Marz2: In the US, there were three Models of the Genesis, (under that name ) ( Genesis, Genesis 2, and Genesis 3 (which wouldn't support Sega CD). In most of the world, I think there was only Mega Drive and Mega Drive 2?
Tanto: Hmm...now that this has been bumped, the example discussing the current generation may need a rewrite after the asshammering
the Wii is currently delivering to all comers. Anyone care to write a neutral-perspective version of the Console Wars as they stand right now?
Mister Six: Done, with fancy-schmancy tables and everything.
Mister Six: Restored the original titles (with some concessions) because I'm petty and childish and "fifth/sixth/seventh generation" means nothing to me and, I suspect, to most people. Does anyone know what's happening with the justification in the tables, by the way? Some are centred and some are justified right and I don't know why.
Morgan Wick: It appears to be determined by whether you have spaces between the bars (||) and the text.
Tanto: Eh, "bits" sounds so archaic these days. I especially don't believe anyone's ever refered to the PS2/GCN/Xbox generation as the 128-bit-ers. And "Handheld Proliferation" is sort of a misnomer for a period of time in which one system was pretty much crushing all comers.
Mister Six: The Dreamcast and PS 2 were referred to as 128-bit consoles early on. And the 'proliferation' thing doesn't have anything to do with one being more successful than the others - it's a reference to nuclear proliferation, when countries were developing nuclear weapons all over the place.
Tanto: Yeah, I know, but the phrase has implications of a competitive arms race, with companies trying to outdo each other. That doesn't really fit the GBA era, which was basically the GBA at the top, outselling and outdoing everybody, and a bunch of little-known handhelds on the fringes trying to eek out an existence. That's not Cold War, that's Roman Empire.
Mister Six: Good analogy, but the companies were still trying to outdo each other and Nintendo even if they didn't succeed. Nobody launches a new console with the intention of just scraping by while the competition cleans up.
Ununnilium: I definitely prefer the "generation" ones. The "bit" names become increasingly irrelevant after 16, anyway, what with how the actual processors work.
Yoshi348: Perhaps a mixed strategy would be best: 8-bit and 16-bit being called that, while generations afterward. Bits were a big thing back then but not now, but we still think of the 8-bit days, and to a lesser extent 16-bit. And isn't the Nintendo 64 64-bit anyway? I mean, it's the Nintendo 64.
Tanto: Taking that tack for now. The fifth generation (PS1/Saturn/N64) is the point at which "bits" becomes an increasingly irrelevant term, so switching off there. I also got rid of "Handheld Proliferation" because I still don't believe it describes that whole time period properly — if anyone can think of anything better for that one, feel free to change it.
Mister Six: Restored Handheld Proliferation because A- I'm petty; B- it fits the war theme better; C- Tanto's objection is based on a misunderstanding of the term "nuclear proliferation"; D- if someone adds something and you disagree but nobody else seems to care then it's only polite to leave the original edit in; and E- I'm really petty. Conclusion: TV Tropes: Serious F***ing Business.
Squeal: So, umm... Since Wii already caught up to 360 in total number of sales and it doesn't seem like it will stop outselling its competitors any time soon, I allowed myself to rephrase this generation's entry...
Da_Nuke: These tables were good to organize the chapters in columns and whatnot, but they don't support line breaks and the explanations were already becoming big walls of text. I thought: why not using the Wild Mass Guessing header templates and organize the text in a way that can be easy to read, without using tables? So I reorganized the entire article in a way that doesn't uses the tables.
- This troper is waiting for Crisis Core, arguably PSP's "killer app," before making any decisions on the victor, as he personally knows several people getting PS Ps for that game alone.
Big T: This Troper needs to keep his natter of the main page. Also, Crisis core sucks, so I guess the PSP loses, right? (See, I couldn't say that if this were on the main page)
Oh, and I fixed all the dashes. Either use — without spaces, or - with. (I chose the latter because — is becoming deprecated now that we don't use typewriters. We've got – now.)
Large Blunt Object: Been suggested over at Zero Punctuation Discussion that the Zero Punctuation quote is irrelevant and should be cut. I have no issue with it either way, anyone love it enough to defend it or hate it enough to remove it?
Rebochan: The discussion on that page was about Yahtzee quotes in general. This one is relevant to the topic (Console Wars), so I see no reason to get rid of it unless we're trying to cut down on quotes in general.
Kingogtheingdaw: I removed the zero puncuation quote because it has Zero relevance to what console wars are. But due to the cocksucking of Yahtzee on this site some stupid fanboy will probably put it up again.
HeartBurn Kid: 1, it's perfectly relevant to the discussion at hand, because it discusses the behavior that leads to console wars. 2, since you decided to jump straight to personal insults to everybody on this wiki, I feel like pissing you off. Quote's back.
Kingogtheingdaw: I was only referring to the incredibly militant Yatzee fans who stick fingers in their ears and go la-la-la anytime someone tries to refute his points. The wiki just has alot of those kind of people. When reading my reason for edit ask yourself does the description this person has posted apply to me? If not then don't get offended, if so then get offended.
Considering you were offended it seems you are a militant Yahtzee fanboy.
HeartBurn Kid: Hey, don't refute my pints! I like my pints! There's good beer in those pints!
... Ok, bad joke, but seriously, you're just trolling.
Kingogtheingdaw: What your the one trolling me! I came in and thought the review doesn't apply to console wars and removed the quote but I also pointed out that there are very militant Yahtzee fanboys oon this sight who take his word as law and that the edit would last for ).01th of a second. Then you come ion butthurt that I removed your idols quote and called a few people fanboys (which they are) and added back in pure spite despite the fact that the quote doesn't explain what console wars are, just how people react to them. Then you troll me over one typo.
Rebochan: Dude, seriously...ever hear of the Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgement? Assuming good faith of fellow editors? ...my god, is the universe collapsing around me in irony?!
- The latest E3 conference has spawned great concern that the Wii may have shot all of it's bolts too early - Nintendo has received considerable criticism for what may as well have been a no-show.
Tanto: Oh, please. E3 is utterly irrelevant these days. It's for the mainstream media, not hardcore gamers. Last year, remember, Nintendo talked about Brawl for five minutes then went straight to sales figures. E3 doesn't mean anything now, but the mainstream media still thinks it does, so Nintendo spends E3 talking to CNN, not GameFAQs.
The real news will trickle out in single company events and smaller conferences like TGS. Patience, young Jedi.
Much later: And of course I was exactly right, with Nintendo announcing a ton of great gamer stuff at their recent news conference. You can basically ignore E3 from here on out — god knows the companies do.
Dalantia: Should we toss in a reference to the PC vs. Console wars, too?
Marz2: To Delantia, how about Home Computer v Console Wars to include all computers ( not just P Cs)? :P ( ie Commodore v Atari 2600 v Coleco ) or ( Amiga v Genesis/Megadrive? )
Ace Of Scarabs: Special mention should be made of the iPhone, which is building a Wii-like casual base of games.
I wonder if anything should be said about current cellphone games, particularly Japanese cellphones. Considering that several "big name" Japanese game companies (Sqaure-Enix, Namco, Capcom, etc.) make such games, some of them complex enough to be on the Nintendo DS, and indeed some of them do end up getting ported to it.
Someguy: Anyone else think the Current Events/Standing section doesn't need to be here? It's fanboy fuel, if anything.
Dalantia: I'm mostly in agreement there.
Broken Chaos: did some editing of the 'current' sections at large, and am bumping the "current events" section over here for (possible) future re-integration of whatever good is in it.
Current events:
- In 2007, an overall design flaw of the Xbox 360 was finally acknowledged by Microsoft, which can lead to serious overheating that can even burn the entire system — which may undermine its sales in the long run. After months of denial, MS extended the warranty greatly (on that one issue), and fixed the flaw in later production runs.
- The victory of the Blu-Ray Disc in the next-gen DVD format war was expected to boost the PS3's fortunes significantly, as it is considered by many experts to be the best Blu-Ray player on the market, although it is no longer one of the cheaper ones.
- As of August 2009, it has had no effect on PS 3 sales. While public interest in Blu-ray has increased with skyrocketing movie sales, it appears most consumers are viewing those discs on the less expensive dedicated Blu-Ray players available.
- It's too early to tell whether or not the recent announcement of non-exclusivity for Final Fantasy XIII (it's coming to the Xbox 360 in addition to the Playstation 3, except in Japan where it remains PS 3 only) will prove to be as much of a crippling blow for Sony's system as the announcement of Final Fantasy VII to the Playstation was for the Nintendo 64 two generations ago, but from the flame wars that have already erupted between Microsoft and Sony fanboys over the subject, it's clear that the announcement is the most significant bombshell to date in the seventh-generation console wars. FFXIII is first being developed for the PS 3, and then is being ported over to the 360.
- The release of the most recent Tales game as a 360 exclusive has fueled massive sales for the console in Japan, with Microsoft reporting a sellout for the first time since the console's release. Of course, they weren't shipping very many units there in the first place, but hey, a sellout is a sellout. Not to mention that recently Sony loses another exclusive title to 360... Tekken.
- And then said Tales game will have a PS3 port with exclusive content. Already the Japanese gamers have revolted. Whoops.
- Asking whether or not the PS3 port will be localized will pretty much trigger a PS3 vs. 360 Internet Backdraft anywhere you go.
- Ditto for whether or not the Joker challenge maps in Batman Arkham Asylum will be available on 360 (Not Tales related, but still extra exclusive PS3 content).
- Or whether the Grand Theft Auto IV DLC packs will be brought to PS 3. The announcement that they'll be released together for the 360 as a physical disc kicked this debate into high gear.
- And then said Tales game will have a PS3 port with exclusive content. Already the Japanese gamers have revolted.
- Square-Enix has announced that the tenth game in the Dragon Quest series will be on the Wii. While the Wii is already leaps ahead of the other consoles in Japan, having the next game in the Dragon Quest series will secure its position.
- The release of Monster Hunter Tri for the Wii has broken Japanese sales records for third-party consoles this generation, with over 700,000 copies sold in less than 10 days.
- August and September 2009 saw a round of price cuts for everyone:
- Sony led off, replacing the 160GB PS3 with a new "Slim" model and taking $100 off both it and the 80GB model (making them $399 and $299, respectively).
- Microsoft quickly responded with their own price cut: the Xbox 360 Pro was discontinued, with the Elite model dropping a hundred dollars to take over its $299 price point (the Pro became $249 while stock lasted); the 360 Arcade stayed at $199.
- Not too long after, Nintendo dropped the Wii from $249 to $199 as well.
- As expected, the first month of the PS 3's price cut helped boost sales, as the PS3 managed to outsell the Wii by 30,000 units. It remains to see if this will be sustained, however, especially with the Wii's price cut taking effect in October 2009.
