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coolman229
topic
02:24:46 PM Aug 6th 2012
edited by coolman229
  • It could be both. While she was certainly benevolent, becoming mortal and reincarnating as Zelda, she was manipulative. She even apologizes to Link, because she chose Zelda due to Link's close relationship with her.

I was notified for natter because I put this up for the Alternative Character Interpretation on Hylia being manipulative or benevolent. I was wondering what others thought. I just wanted to point out that it certainly could be both.

Edit: Eh. It doesn't matter anymore. I don't really care now.
nostalgicfan
07:16:41 AM Sep 4th 2012
Didn't want to come across as natter on the page sorry.

I tend to agree with the idea Hylia manipulated events, and that her manipulations could run even deeper then suggested, answering a great many questions - with a lot of fridge horror. We have to accept that Zelda merged with the goddess on their word, but what if that was not the case? What if she took over her body? Impa was exceptionally cold to Link at the start, what if she had that same ruthlessness to Zelda too? Impa serves the goddess, -not- zelda... so I think Impa would also deserve a re-interpretation as an agent of Hylia, and Zelda's safety was only to ensure the re-birth of Hylia. That smile when Link came in the end could simply be her thinking, events have fallen exactly into place. It would also mean... Zelda was never saved. She's the puppet of the goddess now. I was actively trying to find evidence to the contrary in playing the game but found none... Anyone have any thoughts to this?
MrDeath
08:44:53 AM Sep 4th 2012
My thoughts is this is all way contrary to the message and tone of the game, and smacks of Poison Oak Epileptic Trees.
TobiasDrake
10:13:08 AM Sep 4th 2012
edited by TobiasDrake
It's a nice WMG, but absence of evidence against is not, in and of itself, evidence for any fanon theory. Under the same logic, I could present that the goddess Hylia is actually Raiden from Mortal Kombat. The game contains no evidence that contradicts this, but that doesn't mean it's true. In the end, millions of fan-theories can be devised to explain any number of things, but if your theory contradicts what we've been told onscreen, absence of evidence isn't enough. If you can't find evidence within the work to support your explanation of the events in question, it just doesn't hold water.

The Burden of Proof will always lay with the dissenting opinion, not the accepted explanation.
nostalgicfan
11:03:30 AM Sep 4th 2012
edited by nostalgicfan
Well, the evidence that Hylia is not Raiden: Raiden doesn't exist in the Zelda series.

Other bits of evidence... Impa serves the goddess... if Zelda was not compliant, what would have happened? Why was it necessary, to be so cruel to link, who was risking his life to chase after them? The 'reason you suck' speech she gives, makes no sense.

Anyway I suspect what I think is just due to some bad translations, and undeveloped characters. If Zelda was a little more developed, one could see the change before she gained the goddess's memories. I will provide one evidence to the contrary though, that happens right at the end... Zelda expresses a wish to explore, and I'm sure she had that same wish at the start. It is actually the only thing I found that made me feel a little better.
MrDeath
11:58:03 AM Sep 4th 2012
I fail to see how anything you've said is "evidence" of anything you're saying.

Maybe it's not "bad translations and undeveloped characters" so much as you fabricating something that simply isn't there in the first place.
TobiasDrake
08:00:07 AM Sep 5th 2012
"Impa serves the goddess... if Zelda was not compliant, what would have happened?"

A hypothetical scenario that is completely irrelevant to your proposal that the goddess Hylia overwrote Zelda entirely would have happened.

"Why was it necessary, to be so cruel to link, who was risking his life to chase after them? The 'reason you suck' speech she gives, makes no sense."

Short answer: because Link sucked. Impa's still pretty young. Link didn't live up to her expectations, and she told him that outright because she's young and tactless. And this is also irrelevant to the topic of "Hylia overwrote Zelda".

All either of these two datapoints prove is that Impa is kind of a bitch. Furthermore, the point of the "Hylia overwrote Zelda" theory is moot to begin with, because Zelda is Hylia from the start. We are explicitly told this, and at no point is it contradicted. Zelda is Hylia reincarnated in mortal form. Suggesting a malicious body takeover is like suggesting that Ganondorf has been being possessed and controlled by Ganon throughout the entire series; it's the same damn character.
Komodin
topic
03:02:08 AM Jun 14th 2012
I removed this entry from the page:

It's an incorrect (and a tad incendiary) use of the trope; it's supposed to be lampooning those of this particular mindset.
AlbedoAtoned
12:36:20 AM Jun 25th 2012
Well, difficulty is subjective and not all aspects are as easy or hard as each other. I wouldn't say Windwaker was the easiest before SS came out either. This one room in particular had you defeat an entire mob of different enemies, close range and long range. some of the wizzrobes would summon more monsters if you failed to defeat them as well. Seriously, some people will never quit with their inflammatory remarks. They say it's kiddy, even though it has a darker storyline than TP which they call an adult Zelda game, they say it is too easy even though it is at least harder in one aspect than a lot of the other Zelda's namely combat. To me, the easiest would be SS for it's dungeons and puzzles, and Ocarina and TP tied for combat. And Fi is insulting to me. When Fi comes out immediately after somebody says something and repeats it word for word I feel like they expected me to either not be paying attention or to be so stupid I needed it repeated. People say Fi doesn't have a personality. I say, she is arrogant and thinks we are all idiots. That's why she feels the need to tell us that we are almost dead.You could be missing a limb and bleeding to death and she will say "there is a 99 percent probability that you will kick the bucket if you don't stop bleeding to death." NAW, I never thought of that, I thought that was the way to live. I guess I should sew up this wound then. Thanks Fi, you saved my life!
whizzerd
topic
03:24:29 PM Dec 7th 2011
I'm taking down Link and Zelda's entry in Ensemble Darkhorse because regardless of their popularity they're still the main characters of this game.

I'm not too sure if Ghirahim counts as an ED either. Ghirahim is one of the main villains and the most active, and shows up quite a lot. Groose might still count as one though. Thoughts?

I think the Mogmas/Kikwis count since there's only a few times where you actually have to talk to them, and they don't factor in the main plot much.
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