Series The X Factor Discussion

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JCaesar
Topic
01:20:16 AM Feb 24th 2012
I'm just adding a quick note here in hopes nobody else will make this mistake, because it's come up twice now: Yes, Steve Jones is Welsh. Yes, he can still be a Mean Brit. Wales is part of Britain.
JCaesar
Topic
07:01:28 AM Dec 18th 2011
Sorry I restored last night's edit, but it's my understanding a justifying edit is when Person A says, "Han Solo is The Cowboy," and Person B says, "Except Han Solo should be The Cowboy." Not when Person A says, "Snape never kills anybody," and Person B says, "Until he does." Am I correct?

As for misuse of tropes, I was being hyperbolic, but I'm going off a fan site which said, "YOU ARE NOT HISTORY'S GREATEST MONSTER, NICOLE! THERE ARE PROBABLY TEN OR ELEVEN WHO ARE WORSE."
JCaesar
07:06:34 AM Dec 18th 2011
If it helps to add: She is now booed by the studio audience, cited as the reason for boycotts of the show, and calls for her removal from the show for Season 2 are the main topic of discussion among fans. The claim, "She's not actively disliked," is at least three weeks old.
JCaesar
01:40:21 AM Dec 21st 2011
As for Repair, Don't Respond, I read that page a long time ago when I first joined, and figured this was not such an instance, because the listed category is The Ace, which Scherzinger was in the UK but is absolutely positively not now in the USA. And for most of the first season (very likely her only one, if Simon Cowell's noncommittal response to the question of her future on the show in "TV Guide" is any indication), she wasn't actively disliked. Then It Got Worse. (She actually did get death threats; she is booed by the audience; and Simon has called her "Cruella" and openly mocked her on the show.)

Anyway, if the issue is Repair, Don't Respond, isn't that more simply resolved by cutting the last few words of the trope listing and the first few words of the bullet point into one, rather than deleting the bullet point over again? I'd be more than happy to do that, if that's honestly the concern.

Plus I still stand by my assertion fan blogs call her a Complete Monster, which is why it's a pothole and not a separately listed trope. And I linked to one of the more popular fan blogs which uses almost that exact wording. Jeez louise, that's enough even for The Other Wiki to go on.
CaissasDeathAngel
09:46:52 AM Dec 21st 2011
Okay, first, here is the entire section, the trope itself cut because it's being disputed.

Now, the problems:

  • Any entry that starts with "Correction:" calls foul of Repair, Don't Respond or Justifying Edit. If a trope is incorrect, fix it or remove it. A page should flow as though one person wrote it, and that means the second bullet cannot stay for any reason whatsoever. Example Indentation has how to correctly use second bullets, but this is not an instance where it's warranted.
  • See Natter and Conversation in the Main Page - a second bullet here certainly comes into those categories, and they are never allowed under any circumstances.
  • We aren't interested in how other sites define or use phrases we use - our definitions are what matter. Complete Monster has a very specific definition on this site, and should not be used with another site's definition. It also doesn't apply in the slightest bit in this case; a flaw related to a TV singing contest is very much not a person with no redeeming features whatsoever. And that's aside from the fact that no real life entries are ever allowed on Complete Monster - if we won't put brutal dictators under the trope, we certainly won't put celebrities. Fanblogs calling her a Complete Monster is irrelevant to this site.

There's probably more, but I'm just back from work and very tired. Regardless, this is enough to go on for now - neither The Ace as a trope nor the correction should be added unless it becomes clear whether it applies. It may be justifiable to put it on the YMMV page, but even then a correction wouldn't be warranted.
JCaesar
04:54:28 PM Dec 21st 2011
OK. On the "Repair Dont Respond," fine. I'm a little unclear why your singling out this one instance but leaving several others on the same page (including one three tropes down the list), but I completely understand your point, and can easily fix that. No problem.

As for the use of the Pothole to "Complete Monster" - I think the issue here is, it's a pothole. Yes, I'm referencing a Bill Hicks joke (hence that pothole). Yes, I know it's hyperbolic. I read something once somewhere about this site being informal and encouraging, quote, "breezy language." And since the issue in question is not whether or not Scherzinger is a Complete Monster (which would come up if I'd listed it as a trope, which I didn't), but whether or not she was a breakout fan success in the UK version and as thoroughly and completely the opposite in the US version, as judged by how fans reacted to her, that's not a YMMV. The trope "Teens Are Monsters" lists the acts booed off the stage in the UK. Scherzinger has been booed in the US (not to mention the death threats and everything else). If you watch the show in the States, and your mileage varies, you are apparently firmly in the minority.

I can see the Elimination Houdini pothole being a YMMV thing which can be fixed easily by removing it (although the incident in question was his third consecutive time on the chopping block, which was part of the problem). I have had edits removed entirely in the past and almost always just let it go. But frankly, this circumstance, with all respect, smacks hard of inconsistent pedantry.
JCaesar
05:00:15 PM Dec 21st 2011
And for the record, I do say, "Correction," myself, about myself, in everyday speech when I realize I've misspoken or am proven incorrect or facts change. But again, that's neither here nor there. If the issue is Repair Don't Respond, I am more than happy to correct it and won't argue.
JCaesar
06:36:19 AM Dec 23rd 2011
Well. With the UK and US versions separated, the simplest solution is to restore The Ace and move the bullet point to let's say Face–Heel Turn.
JCaesar
05:35:07 AM Dec 24th 2011
As this discussion has been up several days, and as there's been a lot of change to the main page, and nobody's responded to this discussion, I get the impression only two people out of thousands care. Those would be you and me. So I'm restoring The Ace to the British discussion (with minor changes), shifting the comments of her American reaction down there, and I really, genuinely, sincerely hope the edit war over a pothole is over. Brits can all still like Nicole a lot. It's cool.
Tarrn
Topic
04:50:50 PM Nov 7th 2011
I can't for the life of me see how the Go-Karting with Bowser example fits. That trope's about heroes being chummy with their villains on occasion, where the example is about Cheryl giving one of her own acts preferential treatment. Anyone?
alcockell
Topic
01:07:23 PM Dec 12th 2010
Where does the 2010 Rejects number live? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atoXrCU2YOY

Danel
Topic
10:17:37 AM Oct 19th 2010
  • Ethnic Scrappy: Katie Waissel and Cher Lloyd

Erm... isn't this just "Racism"?
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Series.TheXFactor