I figured it had to be either the Doctor, or else the exploding Tardis itself would somehow be inside...
Watch out where you step, or we'll be afoot.
Did anyone else think that the BGM abruptly stopping at the end was Surreal Horror?
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The Keenest Of Them All
Anybody else notice when the Doctor says "What could you possibly be?" (right after River lists all the species that are out in space), look at the right side of the screen and you briefly see a figure in the background trying to remain out of sight. It looks like yet another a spooky thing down in the cave with the Pandorica, but it wasn't the half-built Cyberman, so I think it was just a member of the crew trying to stealthily get out of the shot and he/she didn't quite make it.
Watch out where you step, or we'll be afoot.
Did anyone else notice that the Silurians were not supposed to be there, they were put into statis when the moon was formed. Who decided to wake them up before they would have been disturbed by the Doctor?
I agree that the trope was probably misapplied, although they do seem to be improving. Probably because this is their first Moffat outing.
Ughh. Not this sh... I love Moffat's writing style, but I never understood the flak Russell (who wrote Cyberman episodes "Army of Ghosts"/"Doomsday" and "The Next Doctor") seems to get all the time.
You may be correct. Perhaps they just needed to tweak them based on the viewers' reaction. Over time they have become less Daleky and more creepy.
Edit: Also, one of the things which was always a defining feature of old Who Cybermen was just how hard they were to stop, unless the deus ex machina had given you gold of course. The Cyberman in this episode was just that, I wouldn't be too shocked to see it getting up yet again next episode.
Edited by Michael
What I meant with that trope was that previously New Series Cybermen were really unpopular in the fanbase for various reasons.
After that scene, (almost)everyone who hated them cheered and wishes Steven Moffat to write more.
Something closer to Growing the Beard then, hmm, a bearded cyberman...
Can you list those 'various reasons' please? You effectively said "They're considered the Scrappy because... they are." While I like the Slitheen and "Runaway Bride"-era Donna personally, I can still see why a lot of people hate them.
Edited by 94.9.179.3
I've always thought the reason the new (Cybus) Cybermen were unpopular with some factions of the fanbase was simply because they weren't the old Cybermen.
Here's a simplified version for you.
The old-series Cybermen were around long enough to clock up more than a few CMoAs. The new series were desperately in need of one. Here it is.
Now, if they will actually have cybermen debating strategy and cyber-ethics with one another they'll be up to speed with the old series.
Cyberethics? HAHAHAHAHAHA! Sorry, but please tell me you weren't being literal there. You can tell I wasn't around in the 70s and 80s. They're supposed to be unemotional and a hivemind, at least the Cybus ones are, with no concept of class and creed. They, the Cybus Cybermen, have the prime objective of upgrading every human being. Seriously, Cybermen bickering?
Plus, you've just vaguely said "a version that was around for 20 years has more Crowning Moments than the Cybus Cybermen after four". Somehow you've oversimplified. Please. Elaborate. I haven't seen all of classic Who, I'm a newcomer.
Hope this wasn't too ranty, but I do like the Cybus Cybermen, even if they were a little outmatched by the Daleks. *
Edited by 94.9.179.3
This shouldn't devolve into a dick-waving contest, but Miss Hartigan and the CyberKing, much?
Edited by 94.9.179.3
I think one of the other problems was that the Classic Cyberman, funnily enough, had a bit more "personality" than Cybusmen. The Cybusmen are just really...robotic. It's hard to get a feel for them. They always feel "stale" (maybe just me though).
The old ones, despite reportedly having removed all emotions, were not quite so "hive mind". I also preferred the look of them - less robotic, more someone who was once human and has replaced all their bits and bobs with nuts and bolts *
I don't actually mind the Cybusmen though, and I've kind of accepted they're probably here to stay, so that's cool. Didn't know they were considered the Scrappy though. If you're curious about the old Cybermen, I'd say to have a look at say "Revenge of the Cybermen" or "Earthshock" (can't think of any others)
Cyberethics included such things as the importance of accurate data and the need to treat other species without respect. Silver Nemesis and The Five Doctors, respectively. The cyber leader in Nemesis decided it was necessary to simplify transmissions and state they already had something they would have in a few hours anyway, after all What Could Possibly Go Wrong?? The cyberman sending the message objected and had to be reminded that leadership was not a part of his function.
As for Miss Hartigan, case in point. The cmoa there was not the cybermen, it was one woman with a mind so twisted that her upgrade failed.
Edited by Michael
... And now we are having the same old, annoying Mondas vs. Cybus debate. I hate when that happens.
Maybe I should have never added my entry in the first place.
Edited by DomeKen
According to the Characters page, it's academic since Word of God states they were Mondasians anyway. Whatever.
I sort of figured the ones in this episode were "classic" Cybermen from our own universe, considering the decidedly superior technology of the one guarding the tomb and the fact that they had a fleet in orbit.
The Cybermen from "The Next Doctor" were struggling scavengers, and they were still a threat that could build, oh, I don't know, the CyberKing?
- The Doctor telling amy that her life doesnt make sense (see above), implying that she had a family that was erased from time.
Was this really supposed to be implying that? It could have been referring to anything and I didn't get that vibe from it.
Edited by 88.106.208.187 Hide / Show Replies
There was also mention of "all those empty rooms" in the same sentence, so that might be where the idea stems from.
That's the vibe I got too. It's a pretty big house for Amy, a young woman working as a kissogram (which I'm not sure is stable pay or not) to be living in by herself.
Well do homes cost money to live in in the country? Could be inherited as long as she has no loans or mortages she should be fine?
Enemy's Gate is Down.
After rewatching the "Eleventh Hour", I agree that her family might be missing. It seems like there could be some Chekhov M.I.A. going on...
The "What An Idiot" trope doesn't really apply to this ep, for more or less the reasons the following tropers stated - It was due to clever villains, not dumb heroes. Same with "Third Act Stupidity", actually. I don't really recall the Doctor acting any less intelligent that usual. He was just outsmarted. But others could disagree, I thought I'd put something here instead of just deleting unceremoniously.
Edited by Grimace Hide / Show Replies
Seconded. The villains were just magnificent bastards who have a successful plan from working together. Besides, when would have the Doctor known that the Autons could be made photorealistic with memory implants?
Edited by 94.9.179.3
You all keep using legionairre to refer to a roman legionary, it doesn't
- "Legionary is also a term used for members of other legions, like French Foreign Legion, Spanish Foreign Legion or Polish Legions. Members of these modern legions are often called légionnaires, the French term for legionary."
There was no french term for a roman legionary
Edited by nogenius Hide / Show Replies
Partly right. Legionnaire is a word, but as far as I know it only refers to the French Foreign Legion these days. "Legionary" is the right word for a Roman soldier, though.
(Edit: [insert pronoun of your choice here] had only posted the first sentence when I replied to this.)
Edited by Azvolrien
This might be true, but the term is fixed in the public's mind. If someone would care to do a sweep of the page, replacing Legionary with Legionnaire, I'd not object.
dictionary.com lists Legionary as a synonym of Legionnaire, which corresponds to what my Latin master taught me.
Did anyone else think that only the Doctor fits the indestructable part of the description of what's in the Pandorica, apart from introducing an entirely new character? The only other qualifiers seem to be the Master (who the Doctor defeats regularly) and the Daleks (who the Doctor also defeats regularly). Plus the he tends to make a lot of enemies. Who mostly want to do something horrible, but they won't see themselves as evil.
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